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Ehman claims TNZ Cheating


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#301 RHough

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:07 AM

 

Oh hell man, I've already reported it. We get away with a lot of shit here. Comments like that get you hooked. And just so you understand, that is the first time in 9 yrs that I've pushed that Report button.

I'm more than happy to delete my post if you will delete your quote. Offending people to that point does the debate no good.

Done. Both of you could piss off both popes.

LOL ... thanks ... we have been doing this on and off for a few years. We try to debate attack the content not the person but sometimes I slip.

 

Is this where I point out that if we can self police here they should be able to in the AC?   ;-)



#302 jaysper

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:12 AM

 

 

Oh hell man, I've already reported it. We get away with a lot of shit here. Comments like that get you hooked. And just so you understand, that is the first time in 9 yrs that I've pushed that Report button.

I'm more than happy to delete my post if you will delete your quote. Offending people to that point does the debate no good.

Done. Both of you could piss off both popes.

LOL ... thanks ... we have been doing this on and off for a few years. We try to debate attack the content not the person but sometimes I slip.

 

Is this where I point out that if we can self police here they should be able to in the AC?   ;-)

 

If its any consolation, since rudder gate I think Stinger has driven a LOT of posters around the bend.

Something about someone who defies to understand the most basic concepts in the face of overwhelming evidence I guess.



#303 RHough

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:19 AM

 

 

 

Oh hell man, I've already reported it. We get away with a lot of shit here. Comments like that get you hooked. And just so you understand, that is the first time in 9 yrs that I've pushed that Report button.

I'm more than happy to delete my post if you will delete your quote. Offending people to that point does the debate no good.

Done. Both of you could piss off both popes.

LOL ... thanks ... we have been doing this on and off for a few years. We try to debate attack the content not the person but sometimes I slip.

 

Is this where I point out that if we can self police here they should be able to in the AC?   ;-)

 

If its any consolation, since rudder gate I think Stinger has driven a LOT of posters around the bend.

Something about someone who defies to understand the most basic concepts in the face of overwhelming evidence I guess.

I'm all about pushing the limit short of personal attacks. But when I offend I have lost hope of changing opinion.  Since I cringed a bit and rewrote that one to tone it down I'm happy to pull it.  :-)



#304 jhc

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:37 AM

I'm all about pushing the limit short of personal attacks. But when I offend I have lost hope of changing opinion.  Since I cringed a bit and rewrote that one to tone it down I'm happy to pull it.  :-)


 

You should pull everything you have written on this forum.



#305 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:48 AM

Sorry but I find the forum a bit serious and dull this evening.

 

 

Do you know where are my buddies PH and SWS ? :wacko:



#306 NorthKorean

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:51 AM

If 'trust' is what matters then why hold ETNZ to any rules at all? Boundaries, OCS, ... ?

May as well give them an Angel free pass on everything :)

Rules do matter. Enforcement of compliance is there for a reason.

 

Im starting to think youre seriously impaired in the brain dept.



#307 RHough

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:51 AM

I'm all about pushing the limit short of personal attacks. But when I offend I have lost hope of changing opinion.  Since I cringed a bit and rewrote that one to tone it down I'm happy to pull it.  :-)


 

You should pull everything you have written on this forum.

This forum as in this topic, this forum as in AC Anarchy , or all of SA?  Its not going to happen but I'm curious.



#308 jhc

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:52 AM

Sorry but I find the forum a bit serious and dull this evening.

 

 

Do you know where are my buddies PH and SWS ? :wacko:

You are asking us where your friends are? How serious and dull...



#309 ~Stingray~

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:52 AM

If its any consolation, since rudder gate I think Stinger has driven a LOT of posters around the bend.
Something about someone who defies to understand the most basic concepts in the face of overwhelming evidence I guess.

There you go again ;)

The evidence all points to the fact that nobody won the stupid, over the top RudderGate fight that GD dragged everyone through for six weeks.

If you want to get personal then: I'm sure you remember the clip where an apoplectic Peter Lester called for Iain Murray's resignation, on national TV, when the IJ overruled 3 of his Safety measures? How about the one where Tasker, when asked how badly the opponent OR had been damaged, could only stammer and blurt 'Well that's the $64M question'?

I always maintained that nobody won RudderGate. I was dead right so do your silly self a favor and give up on it. You were wrong on that from the very start.

#310 jhc

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:53 AM

 

I'm all about pushing the limit short of personal attacks. But when I offend I have lost hope of changing opinion.  Since I cringed a bit and rewrote that one to tone it down I'm happy to pull it.  :-)


 

You should pull everything you have written on this forum.

This forum as in this topic, this forum as in AC Anarchy , or all of SA?  Its not going to happen but I'm curious.

Please take your pick, any of the above would improve the balance of the remainder.



#311 jaysper

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:04 AM

If its any consolation, since rudder gate I think Stinger has driven a LOT of posters around the bend.
Something about someone who defies to understand the most basic concepts in the face of overwhelming evidence I guess.

There you go again ;)

The evidence all points to the fact that nobody won the stupid, over the top RudderGate fight that GD dragged everyone through for six weeks.

If you want to get personal then: I'm sure you remember the clip where an apoplectic Peter Lester called for Iain Murray's resignation, on national TV, when the IJ overruled 3 of his Safety measures? How about the one where Tasker, when asked how badly the opponent OR had been damaged, could only stammer and blurt 'Well that's the $64M question'?

I always maintained that nobody won RudderGate. I was dead right so do your silly self a favor and give up on it. You were wrong on that from the very start.

 

Bwahahahaha! There you go again, I couldn't make this shit up!

Pretty simple really, ETNZ & LR won  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

And by definition you lost.

 

I could trawl back all your posts and prove it, but I don't need to cos pretty much anyone here that is sane knows you got your arse handed to you in a hat.

Damn you are a shocking loser Stinger



#312 jhc

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:06 AM

TC, and RH, this is a proper post, that is neither boring, nor insulting:

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#313 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:07 AM

TC, and RH, this is a proper post, that is neither boring, nor insulting:

Love it jhc :)



#314 ~Stingray~

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:10 AM

^ Jaysper: Nobody lost except IM. Better-control mandated rudder elevators were key to better Safety. ETNZ at the time already met the standards, they only fought that war to try damage OR. To no avail and nobody won. That argument, like yours for supporting it, was simply ridiculous. It doesn't matter how often you post, the argument remains as stupid as it ever was.

#315 atefooterz

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:13 AM

^ Maybe the Kiwis helped OR by allowing less controlled rudder elevators, so actualy OR (nobody) won! ?



#316 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:15 AM

jhc, what about this one we saw at the AC village ? only the 2 kiwis were no turning their heads...

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#317 Indio

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:19 AM

^ Jaysper: Nobody lost except IM. Better-control mandated rudder elevators were key to better Safety. ETNZ at the time already met the standards, they only fought that war to try damage OR. To no avail and nobody won. That argument, like yours for supporting it, was simply ridiculous. It doesn't matter how often you post, the argument remains as stupid as it ever was.

Score reads ETNZ 7 - ORTUSA 1.

 

It worked  :lol:



#318 jhc

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:21 AM

...creeps me out.



#319 RHough

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:24 AM

Should it have a boat?

 

boat-decoration.jpg

 

or maybe that is over the limit ...

 

how about this

 

bb1.JPG

 

I'm not sure of the procedure to limit and monitor two way communication ...



#320 NZL3481

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:24 AM

There are an incredible number of 'cheaters' posts above that answer nothing at all to Slater's question.

Seriously: ETNZ intentionally has a two-way system in place, and the only control process is 'trust'? And that Trust is earned because of some completely different f*ckup, by different people ?

I want to see a better explanation. If ETNZ has it deployed, then let's hear the control, what's to hide?

 

Some people in the world trust others as their default view. ie: They trust others until such time as someone demonstrates they are untrustworthy.

 

Sometimes people or Americas Cup sailing teams abuse that trust at their peril and when the Karma Police or the International Jury come knocking on their door sooner or later and they are sanctioned accordingly only to hear those that have thrown that trust away say things like "yeah we cheated, but the punishment was way too harsh".

 

Other people and the smarter Americas Cup sailing teams respect and honour the trust placed in them by the organising authority and their staff, their peers and the greater sailing community for themselves, their fellow competitors, the event and the sport itself.

 

As you're slowly leaning Spinray, once trust is gone, it's gone for a very, very, very long time and anyone that supports a cheat can scream all they like over almost any allegation and the only response will be 'Fuck you!'



#321 atefooterz

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:30 AM

From what we have read here one can only imagine racing spinray, when he is out of sight of others, so many things that that his mind would justify as just being compeditive and not "report worthy" to others in the race.



#322 jhc

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:36 AM

"I'm not sure of the procedure to limit and monitor two way communication ..." (rh)

 

Pretty obvious.

 

Though asking for advise is a good start.



#323 jc172528

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:45 AM

^ Jaysper: Nobody lost except IM. Better-control mandated rudder elevators were key to better Safety. ETNZ at the time already met the standards, they only fought that war to try damage OR. To no avail and nobody won. That argument, like yours for supporting it, was simply ridiculous. It doesn't matter how often you post, the argument remains as stupid as it ever was.

 

Might be worth a read

 

Build-a-Bridge-and-Get-Over-It-978160791



#324 PeterHuston

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:57 AM

What I'm interested in now is why the NZH said that Grumpy was going to file a Rule 60 protest against Ehman, and yet there seems to be nothing of the sort happening.

 

If there was such outrage through out NZL, you'd think something would have been by now to bitchslap Ehman.  Even just the filing would do so.

 

So why hasn't Grumpy filed the protest?



#325 RHough

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:01 AM

What I'm interested in now is why the NZH said that Grumpy was going to file a Rule 60 protest against Ehman, and yet there seems to be nothing of the sort happening.

 

If there was such outrage through out NZL, you'd think something would have been by now to bitchslap Ehman.  Even just the filing would do so.

 

So why hasn't Grumpy filed the protest?

I'm not clear ... does this mean that the NZH is no more credible than the front page of SA?

 

IMG_0511.jpg



#326 PeterHuston

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:13 AM

What I'm interested in now is why the NZH said that Grumpy was going to file a Rule 60 protest against Ehman, and yet there seems to be nothing of the sort happening.

 

If there was such outrage through out NZL, you'd think something would have been by now to bitchslap Ehman.  Even just the filing would do so.

 

So why hasn't Grumpy filed the protest?

I'm not clear ... does this mean that the NZH is no more credible than the front page of SA?

 

IMG_0511.jpg

 

Well Dana J and Paul Lewis certainly have the inside track from ETNZ.  You'd think they'd be pretty sure that before they said what ETNZ was going to do they'd check with either Grumpy or Fay.

 

Why  would the NZH say ETNZ were going to file a Rule 60 protest and then it never happens?

 

I mean, Ehman implied ETNZ was cheating.  Doesn't ETNZ have to proven Ehman wrong?  Otherwise, the allegation just hangs out there, and with no active defense....

 

Does Emirates and all the rest of the ETNZ sponsors want to be associated with a team that doesn't defend themselves from an allegation of cheating?  

 

This non-filing just doesn't smell right.   You'd think ETNZ would have filed by now.



#327 Calico Jack

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:17 AM

What I'm interested in now is why the NZH said that Grumpy was going to file a Rule 60 protest against Ehman, and yet there seems to be nothing of the sort happening.
 
If there was such outrage through out NZL, you'd think something would have been by now to bitchslap Ehman.  Even just the filing would do so.
 
So why hasn't Grumpy filed the protest?


nobody in NZL gives a flying fuck about this little ruction, if you walked up Queens Street in Auck and asked everybody you came accross what they thought of Ehman and his statements nobody would have any idea what you were talking about.

There might be 100 people in the entire country who might be slightly exercised by it but most of them know Ehman for what he is...most of the kiwi stuff on here is just fun and another (of the countless) opportunity to expose the soft underbelly and lack of sportsmanship of the defender

#328 RHough

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:19 AM

I mean, Ehman implied ETNZ was cheating.  Doesn't ETNZ have to proven Ehman wrong?  Otherwise, the allegation just hangs out there, and with no active defense....

 

Does Emirates and all the rest of the ETNZ sponsors want to be associated with a team that doesn't defend themselves from an allegation of cheating?  

 

This non-filing just doesn't smell right.   You'd think ETNZ would have filed by now.

Hey!  I am providing active defense! SR is providing the empty sabre rattling ... we are MUCH less expensive than the IJ ...

 

sailor%20chick.JPG



#329 Rennmaus

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:56 AM

 

What I'm interested in now is why the NZH said that Grumpy was going to file a Rule 60 protest against Ehman, and yet there seems to be nothing of the sort happening.

 

If there was such outrage through out NZL, you'd think something would have been by now to bitchslap Ehman.  Even just the filing would do so.

 

So why hasn't Grumpy filed the protest?

I'm not clear ... does this mean that the NZH is no more credible than the front page of SA?

 

 

Well Dana J and Paul Lewis certainly have the inside track from ETNZ.  You'd think they'd be pretty sure that before they said what ETNZ was going to do they'd check with either Grumpy or Fay.

 

Why  would the NZH say ETNZ were going to file a Rule 60 protest and then it never happens?

 

I mean, Ehman implied ETNZ was cheating.  Doesn't ETNZ have to proven Ehman wrong?  Otherwise, the allegation just hangs out there, and with no active defense....

 

Does Emirates and all the rest of the ETNZ sponsors want to be associated with a team that doesn't defend themselves from an allegation of cheating?  

 

This non-filing just doesn't smell right.   You'd think ETNZ would have filed by now.

 

There was an active defense - by the MC and IM: Both said that there's no cheating going on. What more do you need?

 

As to the NZH: Maybe both, Dana and Pail make up their own stuff, and are not (always) hanging on Grumpy's lips, did that ever cross your mind? Looks like they have an own fantasy sometimes.



#330 jc172528

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:58 AM

What I'm interested in now is why the NZH said that Grumpy was going to file a Rule 60 protest against Ehman, and yet there seems to be nothing of the sort happening.
 
If there was such outrage through out NZL, you'd think something would have been by now to bitchslap Ehman.  Even just the filing would do so.
 
So why hasn't Grumpy filed the protest?


nobody in NZL gives a flying fuck about this little ruction, if you walked up Queens Street in Auck and asked everybody you came accross what they thought of Ehman and his statements nobody would have any idea what you were talking about.

There might be 100 people in the entire country who might be slightly exercised by it but most of them know Ehman for what he is...most of the kiwi stuff on here is just fun and another (of the countless) opportunity to expose the soft underbelly and lack of sportsmanship of the defender

 

+1, I couldn't give a flying fark.

 

Clearly it's designed to unsettle TNZ, but coming from OR who has a well proven history of bad sportsmanship and cheating it's not all that surprising. Either put up or shut up.

 

Still I can't work out who's more grumpy the Hater or Grant Dalton.



#331 Indio

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:07 AM

Well Dana J and Paul Lewis certainly have the inside track from ETNZ.  You'd think they'd be pretty sure that before they said what ETNZ was going to do they'd check with either Grumpy or Fay.

 

Why  would the NZH say ETNZ were going to file a Rule 60 protest and then it never happens?

 

I mean, Ehman implied ETNZ was cheating.  Doesn't ETNZ have to proven Ehman wrong?  Otherwise, the allegation just hangs out there, and with no active defense....

 

Does Emirates and all the rest of the ETNZ sponsors want to be associated with a team that doesn't defend themselves from an allegation of cheating?  

 

This non-filing just doesn't smell right.   You'd think ETNZ would have filed by now.

Perhaps Paul Lewis got his "scoop" on the Protocol Article 60 complaint from here. Lewis and Johannsen get all of their material from ACA: remember the bird-strike on the OR wing that Lewis ran with!? I still think ETNZ should file one anyway: maybe it's subject to confidentiality..



#332 dogwatch

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:31 AM

In the French (and Chinese) tradition people are obliged to prove their innocence.

 

 

Not true. How's your French? Mine's terrible but I can read this. http://www.legifranc...eTexte=20110106

 

Code de procédure pénale - Article préliminaire

 

III. - Toute personne suspectée ou poursuivie est présumée innocente tant que sa culpabilité n'a pas été établie

 

Anyway, I see this thread has escalated in both pointlessness and vitriol while I've been sleeping. Out.



#333 eric e

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:58 AM

TC, and RH, this is a proper post, that is neither boring, nor insulting:post-24046-0-88274300-1379473563_thumb.j

 

i've been skimming over a lot of posts recently

 

but that 1 one

 

gave me pause for thought



#334 BronzeWing

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:14 AM

What I'm interested in now is why the NZH said that Grumpy was going to file a Rule 60 protest against Ehman, and yet there seems to be nothing of the sort happening.

 

If there was such outrage through out NZL, you'd think something would have been by now to bitchslap Ehman.  Even just the filing would do so.

 

So why hasn't Grumpy filed the protest?

Since when has the media let the truth get in the way of a good story????



#335 jonsailor

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:38 AM

^papers will be sent straignt to Spinray, he is working on the defence as we speak.

I don't think GD could give a shit....remember, he's the boss on the boat sailing, not sipping brandy and smoking cigars in the knobbs room!!



#336 Nutta

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:58 AM

IIRC the same accusation was made of ETNZ when they were the first to bring in on-board comms in 2000. I can't remember who complained (and protested?).
 
All a bit silly...
 
BJL

 
Yes, there is no proof it is being abused. Otoh, my initial posts here were about "pics or it didn't happen" but it now turns out that not just pics but both audio and video of that comm system's use are evident from between the races on Saturday. And like you I remember this being an issue in past AC's too.
 
Why even have rules if a mechanism gets employed that circumvents the ability to monitor those rules for compliance?
-------
41 OUTSIDE HELP
A yacht shall not receive help from any outside source, except:
(a ) help for the removal of an injured or ill person. Once a person has been removed
from the yacht, that person shall not be returned or replaced;
(b ) after a collision, help from the crew of the other yacht or vessel to get clear;
(c ) unsolicited information from a disinterested source that is not received via electronic
means, which may be another yacht in the same race;
(d ) communication via RO Comms with the Race Officer and Umpires and another yacht
in the same race;
(e ) after a capsize, help to recover the yacht;
(f ) satellite navigation systems used solely to ascertain the yacht’s position including
“aiding” signals such as DGPS (differential GPS), SBAS (space-based augmentation
signals), or RTK (real time kinematic) correction data.
-----
 
Apparently there is nothing at all illegal in having the system. But it is perfectly reasonable to question  "Does ETNZ have any procedures in place to prevent its racing yacht receiving outside help?" Who knows, perhaps ETNZ provided a good answer to IM and we here just don't even know about it.

Using a mobile phone while driving is illegal.

What technical system do you have in place to preclude use of said phone while driving?

If you have a phone in the car while driving would you expect a ticket, or would you expect the "I just don't use the phone" defence to suffice?

#337 bad kitty

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:08 AM

Tom who?

#338 like

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:19 AM

Tom Ehman = Troll

#339 dun

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:54 AM

just notice these and seems that it would have been SOP to have a reliable channel; that RO could not contact either boat at the very least this type of situation would be critical to get on. ??

 

http://noticeboard.a...ndments-1-2.pdf

 

-------

6.6
A replacement mark will be an 8-meter
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#340 PeterHuston

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:06 PM

 

 

What I'm interested in now is why the NZH said that Grumpy was going to file a Rule 60 protest against Ehman, and yet there seems to be nothing of the sort happening.

 

If there was such outrage through out NZL, you'd think something would have been by now to bitchslap Ehman.  Even just the filing would do so.

 

So why hasn't Grumpy filed the protest?

I'm not clear ... does this mean that the NZH is no more credible than the front page of SA?

 

 

Well Dana J and Paul Lewis certainly have the inside track from ETNZ.  You'd think they'd be pretty sure that before they said what ETNZ was going to do they'd check with either Grumpy or Fay.

 

Why  would the NZH say ETNZ were going to file a Rule 60 protest and then it never happens?

 

I mean, Ehman implied ETNZ was cheating.  Doesn't ETNZ have to proven Ehman wrong?  Otherwise, the allegation just hangs out there, and with no active defense....

 

Does Emirates and all the rest of the ETNZ sponsors want to be associated with a team that doesn't defend themselves from an allegation of cheating?  

 

This non-filing just doesn't smell right.   You'd think ETNZ would have filed by now.

 

There was an active defense - by the MC and IM: Both said that there's no cheating going on. What more do you need?

 

As to the NZH: Maybe both, Dana and Pail make up their own stuff, and are not (always) hanging on Grumpy's lips, did that ever cross your mind? Looks like they have an own fantasy sometimes.

 

So the paper of record in NZL just makes up stuff about what ETNZ is going to do in terms of filing protests? Seriously?  That story didn't come from inside the team?  Lewis just made that up?  If so, that would weaken ETNZ, make them look like they can't pull the trigger.

 

There has been no active defense, because nothing has been put into the proper forum.  Ehman never said he was going to protest, ETNZ did.

 

Did it ever occur to you that maybe ETNZ IS cheating, and are just very good at it?   And maybe it isn't voice communication, but maybe instead some form of data?

 

Remember, it was KIWI's who got caught cheating inside Oracle.  



#341 NZL3481

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:10 PM

 

 

 

What I'm interested in now is why the NZH said that Grumpy was going to file a Rule 60 protest against Ehman, and yet there seems to be nothing of the sort happening.

 

If there was such outrage through out NZL, you'd think something would have been by now to bitchslap Ehman.  Even just the filing would do so.

 

So why hasn't Grumpy filed the protest?

I'm not clear ... does this mean that the NZH is no more credible than the front page of SA?

 

 

Well Dana J and Paul Lewis certainly have the inside track from ETNZ.  You'd think they'd be pretty sure that before they said what ETNZ was going to do they'd check with either Grumpy or Fay.

 

Why  would the NZH say ETNZ were going to file a Rule 60 protest and then it never happens?

 

I mean, Ehman implied ETNZ was cheating.  Doesn't ETNZ have to proven Ehman wrong?  Otherwise, the allegation just hangs out there, and with no active defense....

 

Does Emirates and all the rest of the ETNZ sponsors want to be associated with a team that doesn't defend themselves from an allegation of cheating?  

 

This non-filing just doesn't smell right.   You'd think ETNZ would have filed by now.

 

There was an active defense - by the MC and IM: Both said that there's no cheating going on. What more do you need?

 

As to the NZH: Maybe both, Dana and Pail make up their own stuff, and are not (always) hanging on Grumpy's lips, did that ever cross your mind? Looks like they have an own fantasy sometimes.

 

So the paper of record in NZL just makes up stuff about what ETNZ is going to do in terms of filing protests? Seriously?  That story didn't come from inside the team?  Lewis just made that up?  If so, that would weaken ETNZ, make them look like they can't pull the trigger.

 

There has been no active defense, because nothing has been put into the proper forum.  Ehman never said he was going to protest, ETNZ did.

 

Did it ever occur to you that maybe ETNZ IS cheating, and are just very good at it?   And maybe it isn't voice communication, but maybe instead some form of data?

 

Remember, it was KIWI's who got caught cheating inside Oracle.  

Did it occur to you Peter Hooston that you just need to step away from the crack pipe?



#342 oobayly

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:37 PM

Did it ever occur to you that maybe ETNZ IS cheating, and are just very good at it?   And maybe it isn't voice communication, but maybe instead some form of data?

 

Remember, it was KIWI's who got caught cheating inside Oracle.  

 

Not really. Just as it never occurred to me a couple of months ago the OTUSA would be cheating, but then I'm a glass is half full person, or at least I like to think I am. Anyway, TE queried the radio comms, nothing else, so where have you got the "other form of data" from? It strikes me that you're just making things up now.

 

Let's tar every Kiwi, Ozzie and Dutchman because of the AC45 cheating. In return we'll tar all 313,900,000 Americans with a the same brush, after all, it was a US team's lack of oversight that allowed the cheating to go unchecked. Personally, I don't believe in collective national guilt, otherwise I'd have to spend my life apologising for the Holocaust (German mother) and the IRA bombings (I'm Irish) and I really don't have the energy to do so.



#343 bob202

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:02 PM

So the paper of record in NZL just makes up stuff ... Seriously?  That story didn't come from inside the team?  Lewis just made that up?  If so, that would weaken ETNZ, make them look like they can't pull the trigger.

 

There has been no active defense, because nothing has been put into the proper forum.  Ehman never said he was going to protest, ETNZ did.

You are a sad case Peter. You have photos of GGYC folk all over your facebook page - many of whom would be either embarrassed to read some of the crap you post here - it's kind of obvious how partisan you are. Don't pretend to be reasonable.

 

The NZ Herald write stacks of crap and they sure don't need any stories fed to them by ETNZ - some of whom I know for a fact (first hand) mock some of the stuff they write about the AC. Judging by what I read it seems more like they get more of their info from this board.  :D

 

You are suggesting that because there has been no active defence by ETNZ over this what?? That they chose to pay TE's desperate rubbish with the attention it deserves - utter contempt? Ignoring it?

 

Did it ever occur to you that maybe ETNZ IS cheating, and are just very good at it?   And maybe it isn't voice communication, but maybe instead some form of data?

 

Remember, it was KIWI's who got caught cheating inside Oracle.  

Yes, it did. But since it came from TE, who has about as much credibility as a chocolate fire-guard, the accusations should be viewed about as close to being baseless as possible. He is pretty much an integrity-free zone, a whore who changes his tune depending on who is fulling his wallet. No-one considers him credible except those whose moral compass is already shot to hell.

 

So far as some of the OR team members who were caught cheating being kiwis - well, I view the nationalities as less important than the organisational culture. The vast majority of the sailing world looks at the ACWS incident as an OR problem, not an individual one.



#344 nav

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:31 PM

If its any consolation, since rudder gate I think Stinger has driven a LOT of posters around the bend.

Something about someone who defies to understand the most basic concepts in the face of overwhelming evidence I guess.

 

I didn't like it in the past when posters accused SR of being a paid shill, but lately I've been coming around to that way of thinking - as the only explanation for his 24/7 spin cycles.

 

Stay on message, stick to the talking points, ignore contrary evidence, repeat ad infinitum :(

 

 

...

If they are providing off-yacht help then nobody would ever know. That is the issue. Wide open, no police anywhere.

Trust is one thing but Verify is critical given that they intentionally carry that exact capability.

 

 

There are an incredible number of 'cheaters' posts above that answer nothing at all to Slater's question.

Seriously: ETNZ intentionally has a two-way system in place, and the only control process is 'trust'? And that Trust is earned because of some completely different f*ckup, by different people ?

I want to see a better explanation. If ETNZ has it deployed, then let's hear the control, what's to hide?

 

 

It's a serious issue. ETNZ or IM should provide the proof of the integrity of that system's compliance. The proof may exist but we still haven't seen it, despite if it does.


 



#345 nav

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:38 PM

If they are providing off-yacht help then nobody would ever know. That is the issue. Wide open, no police anywhere.

One would suspect much the same method to prove that rudder bearing angle isn't changed: set it, put a seal on, send photo of the seal before the race, let MC check the seal after race.

 

That's quite amusing because apparently Simmer was heard talking to the boat :o before the race was officially over (say it's not true - TE says it's not even possible :lol:) - telling them not to change anything. Suggests there's maybe less real control of the adjustments that one might hope. Did anyone bother to check for changes after the tech was on board after they 'hit something'?



#346 tinga

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 02:39 PM

Stingray & Huston,

If someone accuses OTUSA of using performance enhancing drugs, should they have to prove their innocence? If so how can you do that - we all know, post Lance, that negative tests are not proof.

Similar situation to your moronic arguments that ETNZ should prove they cannot communicate during the race with chase boat.

Half-wits.



#347 Rennmaus

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 03:18 PM

 

 

 

What I'm interested in now is why the NZH said that Grumpy was going to file a Rule 60 protest against Ehman, and yet there seems to be nothing of the sort happening.

 

If there was such outrage through out NZL, you'd think something would have been by now to bitchslap Ehman.  Even just the filing would do so.

 

So why hasn't Grumpy filed the protest?

I'm not clear ... does this mean that the NZH is no more credible than the front page of SA?

 

 

Well Dana J and Paul Lewis certainly have the inside track from ETNZ.  You'd think they'd be pretty sure that before they said what ETNZ was going to do they'd check with either Grumpy or Fay.

 

Why  would the NZH say ETNZ were going to file a Rule 60 protest and then it never happens?

 

I mean, Ehman implied ETNZ was cheating.  Doesn't ETNZ have to proven Ehman wrong?  Otherwise, the allegation just hangs out there, and with no active defense....

 

Does Emirates and all the rest of the ETNZ sponsors want to be associated with a team that doesn't defend themselves from an allegation of cheating?  

 

This non-filing just doesn't smell right.   You'd think ETNZ would have filed by now.

 

There was an active defense - by the MC and IM: Both said that there's no cheating going on. What more do you need?

 

As to the NZH: Maybe both, Dana and Pail make up their own stuff, and are not (always) hanging on Grumpy's lips, did that ever cross your mind? Looks like they have an own fantasy sometimes.

 

So the paper of record in NZL just makes up stuff about what ETNZ is going to do in terms of filing protests? Seriously?  That story didn't come from inside the team?  Lewis just made that up?  If so, that would weaken ETNZ, make them look like they can't pull the trigger.

 

There has been no active defense, because nothing has been put into the proper forum.  Ehman never said he was going to protest, ETNZ did.

 

Did it ever occur to you that maybe ETNZ IS cheating, and are just very good at it?   And maybe it isn't voice communication, but maybe instead some form of data?

 

Remember, it was KIWI's who got caught cheating inside Oracle.  

 

As long as there's no proof of cheating your allegations are meaningless.

The MC and IM have cleared ETNZ from cheating, so, what's your issue? Really, why does nobody acknowledge their statement, how official can it get? Are you now completely nuts? *Desperation*

 

The last time I looked NZ was a free country, and the press is allowed to write stuff without asking GD before.

 

Come over here, and you would get enough perspective to see how ridiculous the side shows are.

 

BTW, i try not to link nationality of people with specific behavior. Has such an ugly tough or racism to it. So please accept that I don't care about the nationality of the cheaters within OTUSA, but would rather criticize corporate/team culture.



#348 PeterHuston

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:28 PM

So the paper of record in NZL just makes up stuff ... Seriously?  That story didn't come from inside the team?  Lewis just made that up?  If so, that would weaken ETNZ, make them look like they can't pull the trigger.

 

There has been no active defense, because nothing has been put into the proper forum.  Ehman never said he was going to protest, ETNZ did.

You are a sad case Peter. You have photos of GGYC folk all over your facebook page - many of whom would be either embarrassed to read some of the crap you post here - it's kind of obvious how partisan you are. Don't pretend to be reasonable.

 

The NZ Herald write stacks of crap and they sure don't need any stories fed to them by ETNZ - some of whom I know for a fact (first hand) mock some of the stuff they write about the AC. Judging by what I read it seems more like they get more of their info from this board.  :D

 

You are suggesting that because there has been no active defence by ETNZ over this what?? That they chose to pay TE's desperate rubbish with the attention it deserves - utter contempt? Ignoring it?

 

>Did it ever occur to you that maybe ETNZ IS cheating, and are just very good at it?   And maybe it isn't voice communication, but maybe instead some form of data?

 

Remember, it was KIWI's who got caught cheating inside Oracle.  

Yes, it did. But since it came from TE, who has about as much credibility as a chocolate fire-guard, the accusations should be viewed about as close to being baseless as possible. He is pretty much an integrity-free zone, a whore who changes his tune depending on who is fulling his wallet. No-one considers him credible except those whose moral compass is already shot to hell.

 

So far as some of the OR team members who were caught cheating being kiwis - well, I view the nationalities as less important than the organisational culture. The vast majority of the sailing world looks at the ACWS incident as an OR problem, not an individual one.

 

 

Oh, i see, the individuals have no accountability.  How convenient.



#349 PeterHuston

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:36 PM

 

 

As long as there's no proof of cheating your allegations are meaningless.

The MC and IM have cleared ETNZ from cheating, so, what's your issue? Really, why does nobody acknowledge their statement, how official can it get? Are you now completely nuts? *Desperation*

 

The last time I looked NZ was a free country, and the press is allowed to write stuff without asking GD before.

 

Come over here, and you would get enough perspective to see how ridiculous the side shows are.

 

BTW, i try not to link nationality of people with specific behavior. Has such an ugly tough or racism to it. So please accept that I don't care about the nationality of the cheaters within OTUSA, but would rather criticize corporate/team culture.

 

So you are also one of those who want to beat the "kiwi's are perfect and individual responsibility doesn't matter" drum.  

 

Desperate?  Hardly.  I'm just sick and tired of the likes of you ohhing and ahhing over the show that Larry paid for, while at the same time tossing the entire team into the shitter....while wanting to sweep individual responsibility under the rug as if it doesn't matter.

 

What will be really interesting to see is what the national authorities do to those who were found guilty and whether or not the rule 69 penalities are uniform.



#350 jhc

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:39 PM

"Oh, i see, the individuals have no credibility.  How convenient." (ph)

 

...Fixed it.



#351 Rennmaus

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:51 PM

 

 

 

As long as there's no proof of cheating your allegations are meaningless.

The MC and IM have cleared ETNZ from cheating, so, what's your issue? Really, why does nobody acknowledge their statement, how official can it get? Are you now completely nuts? *Desperation*

 

The last time I looked NZ was a free country, and the press is allowed to write stuff without asking GD before.

 

Come over here, and you would get enough perspective to see how ridiculous the side shows are.

 

BTW, i try not to link nationality of people with specific behavior. Has such an ugly tough or racism to it. So please accept that I don't care about the nationality of the cheaters within OTUSA, but would rather criticize corporate/team culture.

 

So you are also one of those who want to beat the "kiwi's are perfect and individual responsibility doesn't matter" drum.  

 

Desperate?  Hardly.  I'm just sick and tired of the likes of you ohhing and ahhing over the show that Larry paid for, while at the same time tossing the entire team into the shitter....while wanting to sweep individual responsibility under the rug as if it doesn't matter.

 

What will be really interesting to see is what the national authorities do to those who were found guilty and whether or not the rule 69 penalities are uniform.

 

Goodness, don't take it personal, not ~you~ are desperate, ~I~ am. That's what the ** are for.

Where did I write that Kiwis are perfect and individual blah blah... You must have answered a different post.

 

I have written that I don't care about nationality when it come to human behavior.

Your whole post is certainly not a reply to my post, completely unrelated and far away from what I wrote.  :blink:

 

Signing off now and having fun at Larry's event. That's what it's supposed to be, so Peter, enjoy!!!



#352 maxmini

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:33 PM

At least there is one AC team that can be trusted to play by the rules Spinray.

 

Well no one has seen the onboard video taken of ET back in the day which was so highly promoted and then confiscated .

 

Have you heard the one about the possibility of the OR effort being intentionally  sabotaged by non American team members ?

 

You gotta love forums :)



#353 burbanite

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:36 PM

I cannot for the life of me fathom how this post is still going.

 

Stop feeding the angry trolls and they will go back under the bridge



#354 atefooterz

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:18 PM

Still a while till some boat action, so after checking MSP weather posts in another thread saw the go ahead to post here as conditions appear favorable.



#355 Nutta

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:56 PM

At least there is one AC team that can be trusted to play by the rules Spinray.

 

Well no one has seen the onboard video taken of ET back in the day which was so highly promoted and then confiscated .

 

Have you heard the one about the possibility of the OR effort being intentionally  sabotaged by non American team members ?

 

You gotta love forums :)

 

Sshhh... RC was the mole...



#356 bob202

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:09 PM

Oh, i see, the individuals have no accountability.  How convenient.

Nowhere did I say or imply that it is one or the other. It is fact, corporate and organisational culture have a big impact on the moral compass of those within - moreso than individual moral leanings in many cases.

 

Only a sociopath would think that organisational influence doesn't play a huge part on the attitude and actions of its members. You only need to look at the banking culture in the US prior to the GFC. Otherwise normal people were slowly fed more and more of the corporate kool-aid and before you know it tons of them are acting unethically or plain breaking the law. Worse yet, many they need to be convinced they have even done anything wrong afterwards. Do you lump 100% blame on the individuals or split it amongst the individual and the working environment?



#357 powdermonkey

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:40 PM

Tom Ehman clearly doesn't drive a tractor

#358 hoom

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:57 PM

apparently Simmer was heard talking to the boat :o before the race was officially over (say it's not true - TE says it's not even possible :lol:) - telling them not to change anything.

Now that would be a very interesting turn about.



#359 christom

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 01:28 AM

 

apparently Simmer was heard talking to the boat :o before the race was officially over (say it's not true - TE says it's not even possible :lol:) - telling them not to change anything.

Now that would be a very interesting turn about.
 No it was between races

all is good

#360 eric e

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 01:34 AM

 

apparently Simmer was heard talking to the boat :o before the race was officially over (say it's not true - TE says it's not even possible :lol:) - telling them not to change anything.

Now that would be a very interesting turn about.
 No it was between races

all is good

 

accept according to TE

 

the ggyc guy

 

his boat don't carry the radios to do it

 

maybe they use large tin megaphones 



#361 Nutta

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 03:07 AM

^Nah, they use the same direct mind control crap they use on Huston and stingers...

#362 bruno

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 03:54 AM

Oh, i see, the individuals have no accountability.  How convenient.

Nowhere did I say or imply that it is one or the other. It is fact, corporate and organisational culture have a big impact on the moral compass of those within - moreso than individual moral leanings in many cases.
 
Only a sociopath would think that organisational influence doesn't play a huge part on the attitude and actions of its members. You only need to look at the banking culture in the US prior to the GFC. Otherwise normal people were slowly fed more and more of the corporate kool-aid and before you know it tons of them are acting unethically or plain breaking the law. Worse yet, many they need to be convinced they have even done anything wrong afterwards. Do you lump 100% blame on the individuals or split it amongst the individual and the working environment?

thank god the banksters were all in amurica spared the rest of the whirld

#363 jc172528

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:05 AM

Oh, i see, the individuals have no accountability.  How convenient.

Nowhere did I say or imply that it is one or the other. It is fact, corporate and organisational culture have a big impact on the moral compass of those within - moreso than individual moral leanings in many cases.

 

Only a sociopath would think that organisational influence doesn't play a huge part on the attitude and actions of its members. You only need to look at the banking culture in the US prior to the GFC. Otherwise normal people were slowly fed more and more of the corporate kool-aid and before you know it tons of them are acting unethically or plain breaking the law. Worse yet, many they need to be convinced they have even done anything wrong afterwards. Do you lump 100% blame on the individuals or split it amongst the individual and the working environment?

 

Seriously mate why do you even bother?

 

The Hater is just a bit miffed that his team of hired mercenaries from various Commonwealth nations representing the GGYC are getting a lesson in match racing.

 

Grasping+at+Straws.jpg



#364 koseyboy

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 04:22 AM

 

Oh, i see, the individuals have no accountability.  How convenient.

Nowhere did I say or imply that it is one or the other. It is fact, corporate and organisational culture have a big impact on the moral compass of those within - moreso than individual moral leanings in many cases.

 

Only a sociopath would think that organisational influence doesn't play a huge part on the attitude and actions of its members. You only need to look at the banking culture in the US prior to the GFC. Otherwise normal people were slowly fed more and more of the corporate kool-aid and before you know it tons of them are acting unethically or plain breaking the law. Worse yet, many they need to be convinced they have even done anything wrong afterwards. Do you lump 100% blame on the individuals or split it amongst the individual and the working environment?

 

Seriously mate why do you even bother?

 

The Hater is just a bit miffed that his team of hired mercenaries from various Commonwealth nations representing the GGYC are getting a lesson in match racing.

 

Grasping+at+Straws.jpg

 

+1000000  Peter Huston is a fucken wanker and the more you quote him, the more annoying it gets for those of us who have him on ignore.

 

p.s.  I forgot, he uses his real name, so that makes it all ok...



#365 NZL3481

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:23 AM

 

At least there is one AC team that can be trusted to play by the rules Spinray.

 

Well no one has seen the onboard video taken of ET back in the day which was so highly promoted and then confiscated .

 

Have you heard the one about the possibility of the OR effort being intentionally  sabotaged by non American team members ?

 

You gotta love forums :)

 

Sshhh... RC was the mole...

It wasn't RC. Spinray & Peter Hooters are on the record saying they were taking turns sucking his dick.



#366 bob202

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:29 AM

+1000000  Peter Huston is a fucken wanker and the more you quote him, the more annoying it gets for those of us who have him on ignore.

 

p.s.  I forgot, he uses his real name, so that makes it all ok...

Yep.... and there's some telling pictures on his facebook page too of the sort of person he is. Check out his taste in shirts. :o



#367 RHough

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 05:44 AM

+1000000  Peter Huston is a fucken wanker and the more you quote him, the more annoying it gets for those of us who have him on ignore.

 

p.s.  I forgot, he uses his real name, so that makes it all ok...

Yep.... and there's some telling pictures on his facebook page too of the sort of person he is. Check out his taste in shirts. :o

Thats a problem when you use your real name. People stalk you and shit ...

 

bob202 is this you

 

312055_654195187932665_512383180_n.jpg



#368 onimod

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 06:11 AM



#369 snaerk

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 09:51 AM

 

.....
 
Apparently there is nothing at all illegal in having the system. But it is perfectly reasonable to question  "Does ETNZ have any procedures in place to prevent its racing yacht receiving outside help?" Who knows, perhaps ETNZ provided a good answer to IM and we here just don't even know about it.

Using a mobile phone while driving is illegal.

What technical system do you have in place to preclude use of said phone while driving?

If you have a phone in the car while driving would you expect a ticket, or would you expect the "I just don't use the phone" defence to suffice?

 

It seemz a shame to waste the sweetness ov such an apt analodjy on the desert air.

 

But good on you for trying, and uther peepel will get it, even tho the target ordients haz proved unrelentingly

impervyus to being reezoned owt of pozishins he never reezoned himself into in the ferst plaice.



#370 snaerk

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:00 AM

.......

 

Desperate?  

Hardly.  

 

I'm just sick

 

and tired of the likes of you ohhing and ahhing over the show that Larry paid for, while at the same time tossing the entire team into the shitter....while wanting to sweep individual responsibility under the rug as if it doesn't matter.

 

What will be really interesting to see is what the national authorities do to those who were found guilty and whether or not the rule 69 penalities are uniform.



#371 DayTripper

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:15 AM

As though no one else put any money down.



#372 kenergy

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:51 AM

A couple go on vacation to a fishing resort in northern Minnesota. The husband likes to fish at the crack of dawn. The wife likes to read.

One morning the husband returns after several hours of fishing and takes a nap. Although not familiar with the lake, the wife decides to take the boat out. She motors out a short distance, anchors, and continues to read her book.



Along comes a forest policeman in his boat. He pulls up alongside the woman and says, "Good morning Ma'am. What are you doing?"

"Reading a book," she replies, (thinking "Isn't that obvious?")

"You're in a restricted fishing area," he informs her.

"I'm sorry officer, but I'm not fishing, I'm reading."

"Yes, but you have all the equipment. I'll have to take you in and write you up."

"If you do that, I'll have to charge you with sexual assault," says the woman.

"But I haven't even touched you," says the policeman.

"That's true," replied the woman, "But you have all the equipment."






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