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Oracle asking to raise wind limit?


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#1 kenergy

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:20 PM

Radio in NZ is reporting that Oracle is asking for the wind limit be raised to 25kn but I can find anything reported anywhere, more bullshit?

 

If it is true I doubt ETNZ will agree



#2 pjh

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:21 PM

More bullshit. And very funny, as all the Kiwi's here -- until very recently -- were certain that ETNZ wanted higher wind limits. Hahahaha!

#3 kenergy

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:24 PM

I just went back and listened to it online, the report claims "reports out of the US" as the source.

 

I had to check if someone had written it here  :lol:

 

Probably just more high class journalism by our local hacks :wacko:



#4 NZL4EVER

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:19 AM

Both teams have to agree

=100% no



#5 riggert

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:21 AM

Wouldn't that be in breach of the USCG permit?



#6 ~Stingray~

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:24 AM

JS already said in a presser they'd be happy to up the limits. DB, asked the same, said No.

#7 Glenn

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:35 AM

JS already said in a presser they'd be happy to up the limits. DB, asked the same, said No.

 

was that in yesterdays post race??

 

if not link please



#8 Glenn

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:37 AM

More bullshit. And very funny, as all the Kiwi's here -- until very recently -- were certain that ETNZ wanted higher wind limits. Hahahaha!

 

Dude ETNZ would be on match point if that was the case...rember they were smoking oracle in second race when time called.



#9 Rennmaus

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:40 AM

Wouldn't that be in breach of the USCG permit?

 

Yup. But adhering to the permit is "voluntary". Yeah right!



#10 kenergy

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:08 AM

http://www.newstalkz...nge-rules-again

 

"Oracle is attempting to change the rules again in the America's Cup.

Reports in the US claim the holders are seeking an increase to the wind limit for sailing in the AC72s from 23 knots up to 25.

However, commentator PJ Montgomery says it's unlikely at best as it would require Team New Zealand to agree and also consent from the coastguard.

Wind forecasts for tomorrow two races are upward of 20 knots.

Team New Zealand can win back the cup by winning both races tomorrow.

Two-time winner of the Auld Mug and Artemis sailor Rodney Ardern says as the racing gets closer in the AC72s, it's giving more clout to keeping the controversial catamarans next time.

"I would struggle to understand why Team New Zealand would go for something too different when they obviously have a good advantage at this stage, if they bring it back into mono-hulls then they bring it back onto an even playing surface."

Oracle's spent the day off from racing in training on the water while Team New Zealand's been working on its boat behind closed doors."

 

"Reports in the US" What does that mean? Some guy they found in the bar?



#11 burbanite

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:11 AM

More smoke and mirrors.



#12 Mark K

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:33 AM

 Make up a story,  then comment on and analyse it....  



#13 eric e

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:47 AM

well they would want that wouldn't they

 

and they could have easily had it if they had supported GD

 

when he thought IM's drop from 33 to 23 was too much

 

but they didn't support him then as they thought the the big drop was an advantage to OR

 

now we are mid-way through the finals it's a bit late to change their minds 



#14 Mark K

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:01 AM

Imagine!



#15 TheFlash

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:24 AM

worth a shot



#16 NZL8720

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:46 AM

it would be stupid for ETNZ to allow that, so they won't. They are lots of things, but certainly not stupid! ETNZ have spent the last few months optimizing their boat for conditions under 22 knots. Previously I don't believe that  any of the other teams could have touched ETNZ in over 20Knots, and they ( the other teams) all said it was too dangerous to race in more than 23, and some crap about the coastguard not allowing it anyway . Now it seems that Oracle have  their best shot if it is approaching (or over??) the current wind limits, so they want to change? What a croc....if there is any substance to it...



#17 PeterHuston

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:52 AM

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?



#18 Sailbydate

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:53 AM

Steady as she goes. No need to change the wind limits at this late stage.

 

"Why would you, unless you wanted to cheat?" :ph34r:

 

Now doesn't THAT sound familiar. 



#19 Sailbydate

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:55 AM

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

Peter. If you had the talent to get one hand on the America's Cup (requiring two more point to win it) perhaps you'd understand.

 

But somehow I doubt it.



#20 kenergy

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:56 AM

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

You are a bitter little princess arnt you.
Are you honest enough to turn the tables and tell us what you think OTUSA would do if they were in this position?

#21 Flatbag

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:02 AM

 Make up a story,  then comment on and analyse it....  

The true essence of journalism!



#22 Amati

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:06 AM

Oh come on. If OR went out and sailed the course with authoritah in 25, even with a wind limit call, what would NZ do?

Especially if OR flew a 'you're pussies' pennant as they did it...

:)

#23 dynamohum

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:14 AM

Really you think OTUSA is so classless as to try and change the rules again???

#24 Amati

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:15 AM

Larry is a billionaire for a reason....

#25 Mudz

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:17 AM

I reckon ETNZ should agree then just sit in behind OR and watch as they pitchpole at the top mark, then cruise off to take the race



#26 Indio

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:18 AM

I just went back and listened to it online, the report claims "reports out of the US" as the source.

 

I had to check if someone had written it here  :lol:

 

Probably just more high class journalism by our local hacks :wacko:

Probably the NZ Herald's Sailing "Expert" Dana Johannsen  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 America's Cup: Ask our expert



#27 Sailbydate

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:19 AM

Really you think OTUSA is so classless as to try and change the rules again???

Um...let's see. Are...do I really think...classless...change the rules again? Hmmmmm.

 

Yes.



#28 PeterHuston

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:38 AM

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

You are a bitter little princess arnt you.
Are you honest enough to turn the tables and tell us what you think OTUSA would do if they were in this position?

 

 

You are just another worthless kiwi troll hiding behind a screen name aren't you. 

 

What would Oracle do? I'm not sure.  If you are ask me what I'd do, I'd say no to one knot and say let's go to as many as the USCG would let us.



#29 NZL3481

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:43 AM

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

No, you're pissing over a one knot increase. ETNZ is playing by the rules set out in the protocol.



#30 Amati

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:51 AM

Now THAT is a killer argument. How can anyone stand in the way of your brilliant logic?

NOTHING CAN CHANGE!

And what is your favorite color?

#31 NorthKorean

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:52 AM

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

 

Wow look folks its Peter, the talking vagina.



#32 Indio

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:54 AM

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

 

Wow look folks its Peter, the talking vagina.

He made so much sense when he was just a mute one....



#33 bob202

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:57 AM

Probably the NZ Herald's Sailing "Expert" Dana Johannsen  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 America's Cup: Ask our expert

I read a couple of her articles recently and some of her comments read exactly like stuff written here, just changed slightly. She referred directly to the Oracle boat "sweet spot" with regards to the wind range the day after it was mentioned here (by me amongst other people).

 

I think she's here... maybe just lurking. :ph34r:



#34 Boats13

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:58 AM

Oh come on. If OR went out and sailed the course with authoritah in 25, even with a wind limit call, what would NZ do?

Especially if OR flew a 'you're pussies' pennant as they did it...

:)

 

Can we just Blame Canada!?!?!?

Got to respeck the authoritah!



#35 Boats13

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:01 AM

Green, no..... blue! Aiiiiiiiiiighhh!



#36 Indio

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:01 AM

Probably the NZ Herald's Sailing "Expert" Dana Johannsen  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 America's Cup: Ask our expert

I read a couple of her articles recently and some of her comments read exactly like stuff written here, just changed slightly. She referred directly to the Oracle boat "sweet spot" with regards to the wind range the day after it was mentioned here (by me amongst other people).

 

I think she's here... maybe just lurking. :ph34r:

All she and Paul Lewis do is regurgitate what they read in ACA. I mean, they've hired our favourite ACA videographer John Navas to do their video clips for the Herald. 



#37 Amati

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:05 AM

At least they (the Canadians) would be polite aboot it, eh?

But ESPECIALLY a Cascadian (i.e. a citizen of the Canadian border drawn vertical and existing West of the Rockies) would agree that a wind limit below a local norm is STEWPID.

Or slightly odd, at least, eh?

#38 Sailbydate

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:07 AM

 

Probably the NZ Herald's Sailing "Expert" Dana Johannsen  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

 America's Cup: Ask our expert

I read a couple of her articles recently and some of her comments read exactly like stuff written here, just changed slightly. She referred directly to the Oracle boat "sweet spot" with regards to the wind range the day after it was mentioned here (by me amongst other people).

 

I think she's here... maybe just lurking. :ph34r:

All she and Paul Lewis do is regurgitate what they read in ACA. I mean, they've hired our favourite ACA videographer John Navas to do their video clips for the Herald. 

That was a smart move. JNavas rocks.



#39 PeterHuston

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:09 AM

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

No, you're pissing over a one knot increase. ETNZ is playing by the rules set out in the protocol.

 

Actually no dipshit, the rules as set out in the protocol were changed after the death of Andrew Simpson.  So your tractor was designed to sail in 33 knots from the get go.

 

But now Dalton is afraid of a one knot increase?  Go figure.  Just being his usual obstructionist asshole self again. 



#40 Impulse

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:19 AM

It would suit OR to stay sailing through these high winds.  When it lightens up there's more chance of wind shifts and more pressure on certain parts of the course.  It becomes a lottery and thats the last thing OR needs now.

 

** Newbie here - Hello folks!



#41 jaysper

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:27 AM

 

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

No, you're pissing over a one knot increase. ETNZ is playing by the rules set out in the protocol.

 

Actually no dipshit, the rules as set out in the protocol were changed after the death of Andrew Simpson.  So your tractor was designed to sail in 33 knots from the get go.

 

But now Dalton is afraid of a one knot increase?  Go figure.  Just being his usual obstructionist asshole self again. 

 

*yawn*

Peter, you need to either increase or decrease the current meds cos they just ain't working for you.

Right now, you are starting to make Indio look sane.



#42 bob202

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:31 AM

Actually no dipshit, the rules as set out in the protocol were changed after the death of Andrew Simpson.  So your tractor was designed to sail in 33 knots from the get go.

 

But now Dalton is afraid of a one knot increase?  Go figure.  Just being his usual obstructionist asshole self again. 

I think you miss the key detail of this suggestion (if it's even at all true which I doubt).

 

Oracle have shown their most competitive sailing in the higher wind range. Ergo, it suits them to ask. Ergo, it suits ETNZ to say no regardless of whether they can or are happy to sail in higher wind conditions simply because OR asked.*

 

Saying Dalton is afraid of a one knot increase has less merit than saying Oracle ought to have automatically lost the race they played their "postpone card" because they basically wanted to run off back to mummy for some warm milk. Did you hear anyone who matters complaining about that card being pulled? Nope.

 

The rules are there and everyone can play them how they see them and for whatever tactical, strategic or *whatever* reason.

 

(*unless of course you think ETNZ should be awarded a 5 second head start in the next race to account for the mid-race postponement of race 9 :P )



#43 SIR CLEAN

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:34 AM

Wrong dudes! They are not raising the max wind limit.

They are raising the minimum wind limit to 19.7knots... he he :-)

#44 tls

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 04:54 AM

Really you think OTUSA is so classless as to try and change the rules again???

 

This isn't quite right, since the teams never asked to change the rule to the 23 knot limit.  

 

They are simply asking to move the wind limit to something closer to what was specified when the boats were designed.  I would not be shocked if this report were true.  It is good PR for RC and LE to say they are not afraid of higher winds and to force Grant to say no.  



#45 Rangi

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:01 AM

Right now, you are starting to make Indio look sane.

Now that  is a put down!



#46 Nutta

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:01 AM


Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

No, you're pissing over a one knot increase. ETNZ is playing by the rules set out in the protocol.
 
Actually no dipshit, the rules as set out in the protocol were changed after the death of Andrew Simpson.  So your tractor was designed to sail in 33 knots from the get go.
 
But now Dalton is afraid of a one knot increase?  Go figure.  Just being his usual obstructionist asshole self again. 

And after the Artemis thing, the safety committee and everyone agreed to the lower wind limits.

Then ETNZ modified their boat to allow for the lower wind limits.

Now OR have discovered that their boat needs wind for it to be useful.

All of a sudden higher winds are no longer unsafe...

#47 Glenn

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:11 AM

Okay so this is what we have with one particular  boat..

They need two more wins

Don't want to sail in higher winds

They have their card in hand

 

Have I missed anything on what anyone would do if they happen to be in  control



#48 jaysper

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:14 AM

 

 


Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

No, you're pissing over a one knot increase. ETNZ is playing by the rules set out in the protocol.
 
Actually no dipshit, the rules as set out in the protocol were changed after the death of Andrew Simpson.  So your tractor was designed to sail in 33 knots from the get go.
 
But now Dalton is afraid of a one knot increase?  Go figure.  Just being his usual obstructionist asshole self again. 

And after the Artemis thing, the safety committee and everyone agreed to the lower wind limits.

Then ETNZ modified their boat to allow for the lower wind limits.

Now OR have discovered that their boat needs wind for it to be useful.

All of a sudden higher winds are no longer unsafe...

 

Hallelujah brother! You have seen the light!

Now you understand!  :rolleyes:



#49 kenergy

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:17 AM

 

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

You are a bitter little princess arnt you.
Are you honest enough to turn the tables and tell us what you think OTUSA would do if they were in this position?

 

 

You are just another worthless kiwi troll hiding behind a screen name aren't you. 

 

What would Oracle do? I'm not sure.  If you are ask me what I'd do, I'd say no to one knot and say let's go to as many as the USCG would let us.

Well, I wont rely on your opinion as to my worth, but regarding hiding behind a screen name, preferring on line privacy isn't hiding, if you check your messages I have given you my name there. 

 

Anyway, if you were in this position and you chose to accept the request, thereby probably handing your opponent an advantage, you would be an idiot, and as far as I know, GD isn't an idiot.



#50 Savoyard

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:24 AM

At least they (the Canadians) would be polite aboot it, eh?

But ESPECIALLY a Cascadian (i.e. a citizen of the Canadian border drawn vertical and existing West of the Rockies) would agree that a wind limit below a local norm is STEWPID.

Or slightly odd, at least, eh?

 Thank you, you said it for me, said he politely.



#51 strider470

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 05:28 AM

 

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

You are a bitter little princess arnt you.
Are you honest enough to turn the tables and tell us what you think OTUSA would do if they were in this position?

 

 

You are just another worthless kiwi troll hiding behind a screen name aren't you. 

 

What would Oracle do? I'm not sure.  If you are ask me what I'd do, I'd say no to one knot and say let's go to as many as the USCG would let us.

 

You are right about the wind limits Peter, but it's the timing of the change (that will never happen) that is wrong. If it had been from the very begininng it would have been accepted. Every team would have optimized their boat for those condifions... Everything ok. You cannot ask to change the rules when they suite you more...



#52 Tornado_ALIVE

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:00 AM

33 Knots......  And we will see how buoyant OTUSA's bows are :)  



#53 surfsailor

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:21 AM

ETNZ were leading the only race that was called because of the limits, and they certainly were adamently opposed to the wind limit reduction when it happened. Not to mention all the shrieking Kiwi fanboys on here, who were convinced it was a huge conspiracy. I think the REAL reason raising the limits has been mentioned is that the AC is running the real risk that more epic racing will be cancelled because of a few knots, which - IMHO - would be a crying shame. Just sayin'!



#54 L124C

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:43 AM

The wind limits were a knee jerk reaction to Simpson's death, when we discovered ripping around the bay at high speed under a 130 foot wing could be dangerous :rolleyes:.

The Coast Guard is not likely to raise them. If something catastrophic did happen (as could still happen in 19 knots) it would put them in a bad light.

NZ is probably even less motivated to agree to it. After all, they have nothing to gain, and add a few knots of wind speed to their aerial act the other day or U Boat impersonation and the out comes might have been quite different.



#55 bad kitty

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:08 AM


Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

No, you're pissing over a one knot increase. ETNZ is playing by the rules set out in the protocol.
 
Actually no dipshit, the rules as set out in the protocol were changed after the death of Andrew Simpson.  So your tractor was designed to sail in 33 knots from the get go.
 
But now Dalton is afraid of a one knot increase?  Go figure.  Just being his usual obstructionist asshole self again. 


What a Cock!

#56 SeaGul

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:11 AM

If the wind limit was raised before saturday the standing would be 8-1.... 

 

.... and that TNZ maybe got a little less focused for a couple of races - but will be sharp as a knife today - and we will see the last two races.... 



#57 Barnyb

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:17 AM

  Hey guys: I will give you an America's Cup winds update at 7am tommorrow morning.. to give you an idea if racing will go ahead... Let's hope it does .. looking forward to a beer and Brekky at Foxes tomorrow morning.. here's a wee bit of gossip for you: Oracle tried to get the upper wind limits increased to race... these conditions could not be more perfect for their boat. In some ways it would be better for Barker and the boys if racing is called off tomorrow.. and the ebb tide and winds ease off, as expectedd Thursday.. (i can't believe I am now talking about 'ebb tides' on facebook! haha) It's classic how much we have all learnt about sailing in the past couple of weeks

#58 dogwatch

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:25 AM

Okay so this is what we have with one particular  boat..
They need two more wins
Don't want to sail in higher winds
They have their card in hand
 
Have I missed anything on what anyone would do if they happen to be in  control

That's right and ETNZ is being perfectly rational.

But it is quite amusing that only a few weeks ago, 1000s of words were written by dozens of Kiwi beating their chests as to how their boat was designed for 33 knots. And now, they are shaking their fists at the suggestion that the limits might be moved a notch in that direction.

You'd have to be an irony-free zone to fail to be entertained by the turn-around.

#59 webfish

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:38 AM

Perhaps the wind limit should be increased, although to be fair to both teams it would have to be back dated to the beginning of the AC. Which might require Race 9(?) be handed to ETNZ ... considering our clear lead at the time it was called off!

 

ETNZ were leading the only race that was called because of the limits, and they certainly were adamently opposed to the wind limit reduction when it happened. Not to mention all the shrieking Kiwi fanboys on here, who were convinced it was a huge conspiracy. I think the REAL reason raising the limits has been mentioned is that the AC is running the real risk that more epic racing will be cancelled because of a few knots, which - IMHO - would be a crying shame. Just sayin'!



#60 munkisquisher

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:20 AM

I think what RC is really asking for, is the ability to raise or lower the wind limits while his team is out there sailing, you know, depending on how well his team is doing. 



#61 jaysper

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:32 AM

Okay so this is what we have with one particular  boat..
They need two more wins
Don't want to sail in higher winds
They have their card in hand
 
Have I missed anything on what anyone would do if they happen to be in  control

That's right and ETNZ is being perfectly rational.

But it is quite amusing that only a few weeks ago, 1000s of words were written by dozens of Kiwi beating their chests as to how their boat was designed for 33 knots. And now, they are shaking their fists at the suggestion that the limits might be moved a notch in that direction.

You'd have to be an irony-free zone to fail to be entertained by the turn-around.

 

Personally, I don't believe all this hogwash about OR trying to raise the limits. They are not stupid enough to think ETNZ would agree.

 

However:

 

1) I have no problem with the limits being 33 knots (never have)

2) Just because OR has an advantage in > 20 knots, doesn't mean they can necessarily survive in 25 knots

3) None of this changes the reality that ETNZ's bigger hulls would make it safer in rougher conditions if not faster.

 

All good?



#62 Pukka

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:03 AM

Okay so this is what we have with one particular  boat..
They need two more wins
Don't want to sail in higher winds
They have their card in hand
 
Have I missed anything on what anyone would do if they happen to be in  control

That's right and ETNZ is being perfectly rational.

But it is quite amusing that only a few weeks ago, 1000s of words were written by dozens of Kiwi beating their chests as to how their boat was designed for 33 knots. And now, they are shaking their fists at the suggestion that the limits might be moved a notch in that direction.

You'd have to be an irony-free zone to fail to be entertained by the turn-around.

Classic circle jerk.

The only increase should be back to 33knts if any. But RC don't have that kind of faith. Does GD still?

The learning curve is just getting steeper.

 

Rus...."Ian, Can we please have a one knot increase."

Ian...." Russell, kind of you ask this time, but no, not at this eleventh hour."

Rus "Whine whine .....but we changed the limits too low."

Ian: "Hullo....who originally set them so high... FFS"?

 

GD holds the card on this one, & so he should.



#63 MotherKnowsBest

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:26 AM

Big step back ...

 

Changing the rules at this stage (wind limits or anything else) would take as long as changing anything else at this stage ie. way longer than anyone has, and certainly more than the two days either syndicate ever has. It won't happen, it was never going to.

 

No idea how this rumour (and bun fight) started, but listening to the radio in NZ today, they were quoting "American sources" for this rumour. Reading American print media (online), they say they either can't see it anywhere other than the NZ media or have never heard of it.

 

Methinx this is a herring of the reddist kind.

 

They can't change the wind limits on the fly, even by agreement ... and they won't. So we can put this thread down to "filling in anxious time"?

 

All this nervous energy ... wish it would last forever, and can't wait til it ends. Not many things in life are so good you can say that about them.

 

Enjoy the rest of the week, all!



#64 webfish

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:07 AM

They can't change the wind limits on the fly, even by agreement ... and they won't. So we can put this thread down to "filling in anxious time"?

 

All this nervous energy ... wish it would last forever, and can't wait til it ends. Not many things in life are so good you can say that about them.

 

Filling in anxious time is precisley what I'm doing trolling through these threads. Anything to avoid thinking too directly about tomorrow.

 

Once this whole debacle is over there will be a massive vacuum in our lives regardless of who wins. Lets try and enjoy it a little before it's all over.



#65 sparkiwi

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:16 PM

Filling in anxious time is precisley what I'm doing trolling through these threads. Anything to avoid thinking too directly about tomorrow.

 

Once this whole debacle is over there will be a massive vacuum in our lives regardless of who wins. Lets try and enjoy it a little before it's all over.

Hear hear



#66 hoom

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:56 PM

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

 

If you make a mistake (like change the wind range down below what you think your opponent is optimised for then discover you might have a speed edge only at the top of that range) you get punished you can just change the rules :lol:

 

Seriously though: Given Oracle apparently has an edge in the upper range why the hell would ETNZ concede to an increase at this late stage?

'Yeah, sure thing Russ, we totally want to throw away our competitive advantage, how about we email you a copy of our hull lines, latest polars & our VPP code while we're at it' :rolleyes:



#67 oobayly

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:35 PM

Sources also say the proposal included removing the wind limit after a race had started, so no further races would abandoned while they were underway. Not agreed to. Who's afraid of the big bad wind?

 

To start with, it sounds like this wind limit thing is a load of bollocks - there doesn't seem to be any firm source for the rumour. As a ETNZ supporter (but not a Kiwi) I think *some* of the NZ media have been ridiculous and [bordering on] an embarrassment.

 

That said, you can't go and change wind limit rules during a series like this. Even if a previous race hadn't been abandoned, boats have been optimised for the permitted conditions. Besides, *if* OTUSA want to increase the wind limit why aren't they asking to increase it to the original 33kt limit - they're not afraid of a the big bad wind are they?

 

Edit - Typo.



#68 ~Stingray~

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:36 PM

ETNZ were leading the only race that was called because of the limits, and they certainly were adamently opposed to the wind limit reduction when it happened. Not to mention all the shrieking Kiwi fanboys on here, who were convinced it was a huge conspiracy. I think the REAL reason raising the limits has been mentioned is that the AC is running the real risk that more epic racing will be cancelled because of a few knots, which - IMHO - would be a crying shame. Just sayin'!

+1. May even see 2 races postponed today over this.

Indio, didn't you post rant after rant about how once AR was eliminated then ETNZ would use LR's help to up the wind limits to hurt OR's pussy 'September boat'?

#69 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:48 PM

I love it. A Kiwi rumor with no factual basis drives a 70 post bumfight about how "Oracle is trying to change the rules again".  What's next?  You going to revisit the "Oracle plans to T-Bone ETNZ to keep them from winning the CUp.  

 

Are you really that paranoid?  

 

Your team has done an admirable job of both playing the shore side game that is always part of the AC and designing and sailing a fine boat.  They are to be congratulated.  

 

The shrieking Kiwi fanboys here?  Not so admirable and I suspect your team is a bit ashamed of your shit.  



#70 nav

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:50 PM

pink-pedal-tractor.jpg

 

:D

 

What's with the full court press we're suddenly getting from Phater, the 'Bot and the other deniers?



#71 ~Stingray~

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:52 PM

pink-pedal-tractor.jpg
 
:D

:D

I don't blame GD for refusing but it most certainly is ironic.

#72 WhiteLightnin'

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:52 PM

Okay so this is what we have with one particular  boat..
They need two more wins
Don't want to sail in higher winds
They have their card in hand
 
Have I missed anything on what anyone would do if they happen to be in  control

That's right and ETNZ is being perfectly rational.

But it is quite amusing that only a few weeks ago, 1000s of words were written by dozens of Kiwi beating their chests as to how their boat was designed for 33 knots. And now, they are shaking their fists at the suggestion that the limits might be moved a notch in that direction.

You'd have to be an irony-free zone to fail to be entertained by the turn-around.

 

This is the part I find most entertaining in all of this! It wasn't just the NZL'er either. Everyone wanted the increase. Why call off racing when it was just getting interesting!

 

WL



#73 GauchoGreg

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:02 PM

The wind limits were a knee jerk reaction to Simpson's death, when we discovered ripping around the bay at high speed under a 130 foot wing could be dangerous :rolleyes:.

The Coast Guard is not likely to raise them. If something catastrophic did happen (as could still happen in 19 knots) it would put them in a bad light.

NZ is probably even less motivated to agree to it. After all, they have nothing to gain, and add a few knots of wind speed to their aerial act the other day or U Boat impersonation and the out comes might have been quite different.

 

This.

 

What I find funny is that so many in this thread are so aghast, acting like OR is cheating by the even notion of offering to race in higher winds or, if it is the case, asking to have the wind limit raised.  Last I heard, a team can publicly ask for something.  Seems both teams are easily handling their bare-aways and not on the edge of crashing.  While ETNZ does not have to go along with it, there is no reason to be blasting OR for asking (if that is even the case).  Why the silly outrage?



#74 ~Stingray~

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:06 PM

It's a cultural thing ..

#75 clamslapper

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:14 PM

http://www.newstalkz...nge-rules-again

 

"Oracle is attempting to change the rules again in the America's Cup.

Reports in the US claim the holders are seeking an increase to the wind limit for sailing in the AC72s from 23 knots up to 25.

However, commentator PJ Montgomery says it's unlikely at best as it would require Team New Zealand to agree and also consent from the coastguard.

Wind forecasts for tomorrow two races are upward of 20 knots.

Team New Zealand can win back the cup by winning both races tomorrow.

Two-time winner of the Auld Mug and Artemis sailor Rodney Ardern says as the racing gets closer in the AC72s, it's giving more clout to keeping the controversial catamarans next time.

"I would struggle to understand why Team New Zealand would go for something too different when they obviously have a good advantage at this stage, if they bring it back into mono-hulls then they bring it back onto an even playing surface."

Oracle's spent the day off from racing in training on the water while Team New Zealand's been working on its boat behind closed doors."

 

"Reports in the US" What does that mean? Some guy they found in the bar?

 

 

25 is a lot more than 23 when you're sailing in a spindly catamaran with a wildly oversized sailplan. That's 18.1% more wind pressure.

 

ETNZ looked sharp in the race where the wind limit was surpassed.  But since they don't have a decent backup boat, why on earth would they risk breaking their good one?  Oracle has a good backup boat so they don't have nearly so much downside if they break it.

 

I'm rooting for Oracle, but it blows my mind to think that some of you assholes are seriously contending that Grant is a pussy.  Personally I do not like him but he is certainly not a pussy under any interpretation of the word.  I don't know one single other person who could contribute at that age as a crewmember on one of these boats.



#76 Love2Sail

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:15 PM

This is a ridiculous topic.  I think we all know that the "goal posts" were moved after the Bart Simpson accident.  I think that most of us can agree that changing the rules then was a BAD idea. 

 

All of that being said, YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE RULES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME!  That would be completely insane.  You cannot change them because you are afraid that a couple of races may be canceled or because you think (or know) that your boat is a better heavy wind boat.  The entire match MUST be sailed under the same set of rules.  After all we have had a race that was canceled (a very unfortunate mistake due to the earlier change of rules) due to the wind limits.  How do you reconcile the fact that that race should have been completed under the "new" set of rules?  Once you have started no changing! Period, regardless of reason.



#77 GauchoGreg

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:21 PM

This is a ridiculous topic.  I think we all know that the "goal posts" were moved after the Bart Simpson accident.  I think that most of us can agree that changing the rules then was a BAD idea. 

 

All of that being said, YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE RULES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME!  That would be completely insane.  You cannot change them because you are afraid that a couple of races may be canceled or because you think (or know) that your boat is a better heavy wind boat.  The entire match MUST be sailed under the same set of rules.  After all we have had a race that was canceled (a very unfortunate mistake due to the earlier change of rules) due to the wind limits.  How do you reconcile the fact that that race should have been completed under the "new" set of rules?  Once you have started no changing! Period, regardless of reason.

 

Still, given mutual consent, there is nothing wrong with ASKING? Right?  They can't impose anything.  If they could impose a change, THEN I could see the outrage.



#78 PeterHuston

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:32 PM

pink-pedal-tractor.jpg

 

:D

 

What's with the full court press we're suddenly getting from Phater, the 'Bot and the other deniers?

 

That's a great picture.  It is exactly the sort of tractor Grumpy will ride when he brings his cheaper mononslug AC back to Auckland, if you do win it.



#79 Mariner

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:33 PM

This is a ridiculous topic.  I think we all know that the "goal posts" were moved after the Bart Simpson accident.  I think that most of us can agree that changing the rules then was a BAD idea. 

 

All of that being said, YOU CANNOT CHANGE THE RULES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME!  That would be completely insane.  You cannot change them because you are afraid that a couple of races may be canceled or because you think (or know) that your boat is a better heavy wind boat.  The entire match MUST be sailed under the same set of rules.  After all we have had a race that was canceled (a very unfortunate mistake due to the earlier change of rules) due to the wind limits.  How do you reconcile the fact that that race should have been completed under the "new" set of rules?  Once you have started no changing! Period, regardless of reason.

 

Still, given mutual consent, there is nothing wrong with ASKING? Right?  They can't impose anything.  If they could impose a change, THEN I could see the outrage.

 Nothing at all wrong with asking. take the gloves off!



#80 PeterHuston

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 02:37 PM

http://www.newstalkz...nge-rules-again

 

"Oracle is attempting to change the rules again in the America's Cup.

Reports in the US claim the holders are seeking an increase to the wind limit for sailing in the AC72s from 23 knots up to 25.

However, commentator PJ Montgomery says it's unlikely at best as it would require Team New Zealand to agree and also consent from the coastguard.

Wind forecasts for tomorrow two races are upward of 20 knots.

Team New Zealand can win back the cup by winning both races tomorrow.

Two-time winner of the Auld Mug and Artemis sailor Rodney Ardern says as the racing gets closer in the AC72s, it's giving more clout to keeping the controversial catamarans next time.

"I would struggle to understand why Team New Zealand would go for something too different when they obviously have a good advantage at this stage, if they bring it back into mono-hulls then they bring it back onto an even playing surface."

Oracle's spent the day off from racing in training on the water while Team New Zealand's been working on its boat behind closed doors."

 

"Reports in the US" What does that mean? Some guy they found in the bar?

 

 

25 is a lot more than 23 when you're sailing in a spindly catamaran with a wildly oversized sailplan. That's 18.1% more wind pressure.

 

ETNZ looked sharp in the race where the wind limit was surpassed.  But since they don't have a decent backup boat, why on earth would they risk breaking their good one?  Oracle has a good backup boat so they don't have nearly so much downside if they break it.

 

I'm rooting for Oracle, but it blows my mind to think that some of you assholes are seriously contending that Grant is a pussy.  Personally I do not like him but he is certainly not a pussy under any interpretation of the word.  I don't know one single other person who could contribute at that age as a crewmember on one of these boats.

 

There's a difference between being a piece of meat manstud on the handles, and an emotional midget like Grumpy is who can't even do the right thing for the event by raising the limits by one frickin' knot.  More importantly is getting rid of the abandonment rule.  

 

I love it how the kiwi's think they were hard done by with the abandonment of the race in which they were leading (and assuming they would have kept the lead), and seeming to think that Oracle is slower now in lighter air.  Hell, for all we know, Oracle could be even faster than the sheepfuckers in light air now.   



#81 oobayly

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 03:15 PM

There's a difference between being a piece of meat manstud on the handles, and an emotional midget like Grumpy is who can't even do the right thing for the event by raising the limits by one frickin' knot.  More importantly is getting rid of the abandonment rule.  

 

I love it how the kiwi's think they were hard done by with the abandonment of the race in which they were leading (and assuming they would have kept the lead), and seeming to think that Oracle is slower now in lighter air.  Hell, for all we know, Oracle could be even faster than the sheepfuckers in light air now.   

 

Again, if this is true and not just a ridiculous rumour, why only "one frickin' knot", why not bring it back up to the original design limit? Surely if you feel that if Oracle are right to adjust the wind limit, it shouldn't be just one knot.

 

As for the abandoned race, I haven't seen many (actually any) people complain about that, though I'm sure it's likely from fanboys. I was dismayed to see the race abandoned as ETNZ were ahead, and I'll be honest, I would have been relieved if they were behind and the wind limit had kicked in. However, nobody in their right mind would say that a win was definitely taken from ETNZ.



#82 nav

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:04 PM

^ Have I got it right that when the PRO stopped the race as the wind was over the limit with ETNZ leading they lost their preferred entry for the next race, but when OTUSA waved the flag used their card, they retained their preferred entry?



#83 TheFlash

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 06:24 PM

gonna be windy today...



#84 kenergy

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 07:14 PM

I'e got it now, good pr exercise for ORUSA, today the races get pulled, they can say"we wanted to lift the limits but the kiwis wouldnt let us"

#85 clamslapper

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:19 PM

 

http://www.newstalkz...nge-rules-again

 

"Oracle is attempting to change the rules again in the America's Cup.

Reports in the US claim the holders are seeking an increase to the wind limit for sailing in the AC72s from 23 knots up to 25.

However, commentator PJ Montgomery says it's unlikely at best as it would require Team New Zealand to agree and also consent from the coastguard.

Wind forecasts for tomorrow two races are upward of 20 knots.

Team New Zealand can win back the cup by winning both races tomorrow.

Two-time winner of the Auld Mug and Artemis sailor Rodney Ardern says as the racing gets closer in the AC72s, it's giving more clout to keeping the controversial catamarans next time.

"I would struggle to understand why Team New Zealand would go for something too different when they obviously have a good advantage at this stage, if they bring it back into mono-hulls then they bring it back onto an even playing surface."

Oracle's spent the day off from racing in training on the water while Team New Zealand's been working on its boat behind closed doors."

 

"Reports in the US" What does that mean? Some guy they found in the bar?

 

 

25 is a lot more than 23 when you're sailing in a spindly catamaran with a wildly oversized sailplan. That's 18.1% more wind pressure.

 

ETNZ looked sharp in the race where the wind limit was surpassed.  But since they don't have a decent backup boat, why on earth would they risk breaking their good one?  Oracle has a good backup boat so they don't have nearly so much downside if they break it.

 

I'm rooting for Oracle, but it blows my mind to think that some of you assholes are seriously contending that Grant is a pussy.  Personally I do not like him but he is certainly not a pussy under any interpretation of the word.  I don't know one single other person who could contribute at that age as a crewmember on one of these boats.

 

There's a difference between being a piece of meat manstud on the handles, and an emotional midget like Grumpy is who can't even do the right thing for the event by raising the limits by one frickin' knot.  More importantly is getting rid of the abandonment rule.  

 

I love it how the kiwi's think they were hard done by with the abandonment of the race in which they were leading (and assuming they would have kept the lead), and seeming to think that Oracle is slower now in lighter air.  Hell, for all we know, Oracle could be even faster than the sheepfuckers in light air now.   

 

 

Disagree.  I'm rooting for the same team as you. But there's no rational reason for ETNZ to agree to this.  If I were Dalton I would do the same thing.

 

I do agree with you that abandoning a race under way is insane.



#86 MoMP

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 08:22 PM

The wind limit thing is completely eliminating the point of making sailboat racing TV ready..... They should have went to 25 knots. I get its for safety, but come on.......

#87 kadyca

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 09:22 PM

I reckon ETNZ should agree then just sit in behind OR and watch as they pitchpole at the top mark, then cruise off to take the race

Do you honestly not recall the race in which NZ themselves came || that close to PP themselves?



#88 Godzilla

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:14 AM

If they don't raise the wind limits perhaps they should start the races earlier before the wind builds.

Wind seemed to be building steadily from noon till cancellation today.

Why not start the races at 12:00?



#89 Indio

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:16 AM

If they don't raise the wind limits perhaps they should start the races earlier before the wind builds.

Wind seemed to be building steadily from noon till cancellation today.

Why not start the races at 12:00?

Broadcasting tail wagging the dog..



#90 PeterHuston

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:20 AM

If they don't raise the wind limits perhaps they should start the races earlier before the wind builds.

Wind seemed to be building steadily from noon till cancellation today.

Why not start the races at 12:00?

Broadcasting tail wagging the dog..

 

Funny thing about that, teams supported by sponsors sort of need predictable TV coverage.

 

So it's more like team with sponsors demanding tv coverage.

 

Let's see RNZYS run races without considering the needs of their sponsors.

 

Or are you ready to front up with someone to write a check, and forgot about all the marketing considerations for your sailing hookers?



#91 Godzilla

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 12:47 AM

So tape it.

I am not ready to give up more days to go into the city and not see racing.



#92 Glenn

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 01:57 AM

 

If they don't raise the wind limits perhaps they should start the races earlier before the wind builds.

Wind seemed to be building steadily from noon till cancellation today.

Why not start the races at 12:00?

Broadcasting tail wagging the dog..

 

Funny thing about that, teams supported by sponsors sort of need predictable TV coverage.

 

So it's more like team with sponsors demanding tv coverage.

 

Let's see RNZYS run races without considering the needs of their sponsors.

 

Or are you ready to front up with someone to write a check, and forgot about all the marketing considerations for your sailing hookers?

 

Peter

 

Why don't you jump on the band waggon and enjoy the current event has it is playing out.

 

no need for you to worry about the next round, because like me and 99% of the poster here....unless you pony up $$ your point of view is fucked.



#93 Amati

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:13 AM


At least they (the Canadians) would be polite aboot it, eh?
But ESPECIALLY a Cascadian (i.e. a citizen of the Canadian border drawn vertical and existing West of the Rockies) would agree that a wind limit below a local norm is STEWPID.
Or slightly odd, at least, eh?

 Thank you, you said it for me, said he politely.
And this is why we love sailing the Gulf Islands and adjacent waters say I, gratefully.....

#94 bad kitty

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:19 AM

That seems like a very good summary.

;)

I think what RC is really asking for, is the ability to raise or lower the wind limits while his team is out there sailing, you know, depending on how well his team is doing. 



#95 gliderguider

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:20 AM

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

 

Yup, it could and did back before May, when the wind limit was decreased 10 knots against their wishes.

 

There's been a lot of time and a lot of modifications since then, all with the lower wind limit in mind.

 

Whipsawing the rules now is even more ridiculous than changing them four months ago was.

 

Pick a set of rules and stick to them.



#96 jaysper

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:44 AM

Wait, I thought this tractor could sail in anything?  You mean Dalton has turned into a pussy, and is afraid of one more knot of wind?  Seriously, he's pissing over one knot increase?

 

Yup, it could and did back before May, when the wind limit was decreased 10 knots against their wishes.

 

There's been a lot of time and a lot of modifications since then, all with the lower wind limit in mind.

 

Whipsawing the rules now is even more ridiculous than changing them four months ago was.

 

Pick a set of rules and stick to them.

 

Shit, now you ARE dreaming! (nice dream tho)



#97 Dingbat

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:29 AM

Its best not to get too taken in with whatever Oracle might announce. Its typical RC to tell you the opposite of what hes thinking. If he thinks his boat is fast, he will tell you its slow. He said before the regatta that the didn't think ETNZ would make it to the final.
Its all part of the game Oracle know very well the cup officals are not going to bump the wind levels up. No way never.
All just a windup.

#98 MotherKnowsBest

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:02 AM

I repeat: there was never an option for one or both teams to petition the IJ for a change of rules, wind limit or anything else.

 

This thread has been a great vent for desires, media make-believe, and all that ... but the whole idea of changing the rules part way thru was never an option, and so it transpires.

 

Says way more about us, how passionately we feel about the nuts and bolts of this match ....

 

And why not? Hopefully how we feel about it all matters going forward.



#99 bob202

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:34 AM

Its all part of the game Oracle know very well the cup officals are not going to bump the wind levels up. No way never.
All just a windup.

You omit a detail - they cannot bump the wind levels up without both competitors agreeing. End of story.



#100 Indio

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 09:54 AM

I hope they do increase it: I want to see ORB2 PP2






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