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#201 pjh

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 11:55 PM

Burns and Speer: Secrets of the Comeback

#202 ~Stingray~

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 12:10 AM

Burns and Speer: Secrets of the Comeback

Excellent piece.

This part especially:

" You know that kills upwind speed. It was clear that we needed to retrim, so we raked the wing aftand no, that didnt work. It turned out that when we powered-off the upper elementswhen we added twist aloftthe center of effort shifted down and forward. There was no relief in that. So instead we opened the slot. That gave us less lift on the main element and more lift on the flap [which funnels air aft]. Over the course of the regatta we increased the traveler load by 50 percent. That eliminated lee helm, helped the boat point, and simply made us faster upwind."

#203 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 12:22 AM

Good but we had already read most of it before (don't remember where though)

It basically says that a well balanced boat + less aero drag + good use of the slot (common knowledge fo planes) = faster boat.

It makes sense but was it the only reason they could foil upwind ?

Did TNZ have the same kind of slot in the wing ? did they have lee helm too ?



#204 pjh

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 01:05 AM

TNZ had leading element twist. The outcome of the regatta is one of the great mysteries, as with LET they were guaranteed to win!

#205 aldo

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 01:27 AM

Was Etnz's decision to forego a slot in favor of LET a bad decision?

#206 ~Stingray~

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 01:31 AM

Good but we had already read most of it before (don't remember where though)
It basically says that a well balanced boat + less aero drag + good use of the slot (common knowledge fo planes) = faster boat.
It makes sense but was it the only reason they could foil upwind ?
Did TNZ have the same kind of slot in the wing ? did they have lee helm too ?

TNZ gave up that slot, to be able to preserve LET under the wing weight limits, is my guess. They had it originally.

There's an interesting piece at FV that goes to it. gtran: http://www.farevela....erato-su-etnzl/

#207 ~Stingray~

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 01:34 AM

oops, gtran http://translate.goo...XUyUPjQOs7LLU3Q

#208 SW Sailor

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 02:55 AM

Was Etnz's decision to forego a slot in favor of LET a bad decision?

 

Apparently, but not the only one.

 

The decision making hierarchy also played into things, especially when the lead decision maker was off having a roll in the sheets. Local rumors abounded at the time, which were graciously overlooked. 



#209 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 04:24 AM

Good but we had already read most of it before (don't remember where though)
It basically says that a well balanced boat + less aero drag + good use of the slot (common knowledge fo planes) = faster boat.
It makes sense but was it the only reason they could foil upwind ?
Did TNZ have the same kind of slot in the wing ? did they have lee helm too ?

TNZ gave up that slot, to be able to preserve LET under the wing weight limits, is my guess. They had it originally.

There's an interesting piece at FV that goes to it. gtran: http://www.farevela....erato-su-etnzl/

Thanks SR.

I never focussed on the wing as it was clear they had more power than needed, perhaps wrongly.

 

However, the reason OR was failing was clearly that they were pushing water upwind (I took many photos of it in SF), it is also clear they won thanks to being able to foil upwind.

Could the slots have made the difference ?

 

I still doubt it, looks more like a deception tactic to me.



#210 SW Sailor

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 05:18 AM

No doubt you're right, once again :)

 

Only a deception - back to Herbie ?



#211 WetHog

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:42 AM

 
Apparently, but not the only one.
 
The decision making hierarchy also played into things, especially when the lead decision maker was off having a roll in the sheets. Local rumors abounded at the time, which were graciously overlooked. 


WTF? Elaborate, please.

Another expensive car into stone wall type situation?

WetHog

#212 maxmini

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 10:18 PM

Was Etnz's decision to forego a slot in favor of LET a bad decision?

 

 

According to one of our most prolific posters LET was the reason ET would not be beat by the unsophisticated OR wing.

 

This might be one of the most ironic outcomes of AC 34 .

 

Another SA " expert ' bites the dust.



#213 pjh

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 11:19 PM

Was Etnz's decision to forego a slot in favor of LET a bad decision?

 

 

According to one of our most prolific posters LET was the reason ET would not be beat by the unsophisticated OR wing.

 

This might be one of the most ironic outcomes of AC 34 .

 

Another SA " expert ' bites the dust.

+1



#214 ~Stingray~

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 11:50 PM


Good but we had already read most of it before (don't remember where though)
It basically says that a well balanced boat + less aero drag + good use of the slot (common knowledge fo planes) = faster boat.
It makes sense but was it the only reason they could foil upwind ?
Did TNZ have the same kind of slot in the wing ? did they have lee helm too ?

TNZ gave up that slot, to be able to preserve LET under the wing weight limits, is my guess. They had it originally.

There's an interesting piece at FV that goes to it. gtran: http://www.farevela....erato-su-etnzl/
Thanks SR.
I never focussed on the wing as it was clear they had more power than needed, perhaps wrongly.
 
However, the reason OR was failing was clearly that they were pushing water upwind (I took many photos of it in SF), it is also clear they won thanks to being able to foil upwind.
Could the slots have made the difference ?
I think that the extra power came in useful once they found they'd have to foil upwind too, to come back and win. From TS at the link above,

" We had that pod [below trampoline level] that effectively extended our wingspan two meters. That gave us the potential for the upwind speed that we eventually developed. "

#215 ~Stingray~

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Posted 21 February 2014 - 11:53 PM

Oops, here is the correct link to a gtran of the FV article
http://translate.goo...XUyUPjQOs7LLU3Q

From there,

" The winning idea?

Instead Race 11 before the boss aerodynamic Tom Speer had the idea entirely new element to open the slot between the front wing and flaps. To some extent this leaves lift and drag unchanged, but shifts the position of the profile on the back center of effort: as if by magic, the boat is balanced out by loading more rudder, and well enough to continue to do so even on the foil! And then, as commented by Caponnetto, 30 knots upwind the cleaner aerodynamics under trampoline was heard.

Open the slot is very simple: on the trailing edge of the front element there is a tab (small flaps) hinged only, with the various levels of the leads that depart from its queue, go to the big rear flap and are collected in the bottom of a horizontal bar. Raising it or lowering it widens or narrows the slot evenly, while tilting it can be varied differently along the height of the wing.

Tom Speer does not say it, but you can bet that at that point will have optimized the width of the slot edge to edge. "

#216 pjh

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:09 AM

Oops, here is the correct link to a gtran of the FV article
http://translate.goo...XUyUPjQOs7LLU3Q

From there,

" The winning idea?

Instead Race 11 before the boss aerodynamic Tom Speer had the idea entirely new element to open the slot between the front wing and flaps. To some extent this leaves lift and drag unchanged, but shifts the position of the profile on the back center of effort: as if by magic, the boat is balanced out by loading more rudder, and well enough to continue to do so even on the foil! And then, as commented by Caponnetto, 30 knots upwind the cleaner aerodynamics under trampoline was heard.

Open the slot is very simple: on the trailing edge of the front element there is a tab (small flaps) hinged only, with the various levels of the leads that depart from its queue, go to the big rear flap and are collected in the bottom of a horizontal bar. Raising it or lowering it widens or narrows the slot evenly, while tilting it can be varied differently along the height of the wing.

Tom Speer does not say it, but you can bet that at that point will have optimized the width of the slot edge to edge. "

 

Race #8 was the first time Oracle was competitive upwind.  What was changed before race 8 ??? And Oracle lost race 11.



#217 ~Stingray~

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:17 AM

3 [1] 3 [2] 2 [8] from memory. Yes, the trend had started to turn already by R8. That experimenting with rake and then (brilliantly) slot instead was already showing potential.

#218 pjh

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:23 AM

3 [1] 3 [2] 2 [8] from memory.

 

What?!?  Please try to be a bit more clear.



#219 ~Stingray~

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:41 AM




3 [1] 3 [2] 2 [8] from memory.

 
What?!?  Please try to be a bit more clear.
Sorry, think that was the Race trend line.
ETNZ wins [OTUSA wins]

TS prognosticated to us both about the potential in the Power of the Pod on the eve of R1, do you remember that night?

Along with the party you threw, one of my favorite AC34 memories.

#220 aldo

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 12:56 AM

I still have reservations about the effectiveness of the pod as an extension of the wing.

 

Could someone explain, if it was so successful, why they cut down its size so drastically from substantial B1 to the small triangular shaped B2?



#221 ~Stingray~

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:03 AM

I still have reservations about the effectiveness of the pod as an extension of the wing.
 
Could someone explain, if it was so successful, why they cut down its size so drastically from substantial B1 to the small triangular shaped B2?

Great question.

I hope (ahem) someone chimes in but here's my guess: it had to do with better lee airflow. TS has commented somewhere how his system had no need for pie warmers.

#222 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 01:14 AM

Oops, here is the correct link to a gtran of the FV article
http://translate.goo...XUyUPjQOs7LLU3Q

From there,

" The winning idea?

Instead Race 11 before the boss aerodynamic Tom Speer had the idea entirely new element to open the slot between the front wing and flaps. To some extent this leaves lift and drag unchanged, but shifts the position of the profile on the back center of effort: as if by magic, the boat is balanced out by loading more rudder, and well enough to continue to do so even on the foil! And then, as commented by Caponnetto, 30 knots upwind the cleaner aerodynamics under trampoline was heard.

Open the slot is very simple: on the trailing edge of the front element there is a tab (small flaps) hinged only, with the various levels of the leads that depart from its queue, go to the big rear flap and are collected in the bottom of a horizontal bar. Raising it or lowering it widens or narrows the slot evenly, while tilting it can be varied differently along the height of the wing.

Tom Speer does not say it, but you can bet that at that point will have optimized the width of the slot edge to edge. "

This is pretty much what we read some months ago (posted by Basiliscus ?) and could have been how they "broke the code".

Not an obvious solution, with leehelm most sailors think of : racking + twisting the sails, which seems to act the contrary on a wing.

 

Still difficult the believe that slot + aero was enough to make them foil upwind. The foil retro system must have helped a lot too.



#223 ~Stingray~

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 03:53 AM

^ I like and buy the idea that OR's wing power and balance ability thru slot tuning proved to have the winning overall system control, despite the grinders' effort necessary to realize that potential.

#224 ubik

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 09:37 AM

LOL. To have a tab and leave the slot open doesn't make sense. = no tab. 



#225 aldo

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:23 AM

Nothing funny.

Rather than being merely open or closed, the tab is used to adjust the size of the slot.

The slot introduces air flow to the leeward side and adjusts lift on the rear element.  Not always a good thing that far back on the wing but good if lee helm is a problem.



#226 ubik

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:27 AM

Aldo, thank you for the precious explanation! I understand you are all scientist here!



#227 brian weslake

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:44 AM

I still have reservations about the effectiveness of the pod as an extension of the wing.

 

Could someone explain, if it was so successful, why they cut down its size so drastically from substantial B1 to the small triangular shaped B2?

 

Because it's about span, not area. They discovered it didn't need to be as big as they had made it for B1.



#228 ubik

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Posted 22 February 2014 - 10:53 AM

I still have reservations about the effectiveness of the pod as an extension of the wing.

 

Could someone explain, if it was so successful, why they cut down its size so drastically from substantial B1 to the small triangular shaped B2?

 

Because it's about span, not area. They discovered it didn't need to be as big as they had made it for B1.

It is about span and much more. You want to increase the span (and the load/circulation) toward the bottom of the sail plan to have more lift/thrust with minimum heeling moment. Anyway, span without area = no-span. Pods are made of carbon not spirit...



#229 brian weslake

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 12:16 AM

 

I still have reservations about the effectiveness of the pod as an extension of the wing.

 

Could someone explain, if it was so successful, why they cut down its size so drastically from substantial B1 to the small triangular shaped B2?

 

Because it's about span, not area. They discovered it didn't need to be as big as they had made it for B1.

It is about span and much more. You want to increase the span (and the load/circulation) toward the bottom of the sail plan to have more lift/thrust with minimum heeling moment. Anyway, span without area = no-span. Pods are made of carbon not spirit...

The point is that the pod on B2 had sufficient area.



#230 floater

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Posted 23 February 2014 - 02:12 PM


Oops, here is the correct link to a gtran of the FV article
http://translate.goo...XUyUPjQOs7LLU3Q

From there,

" The winning idea?

Instead Race 11 before the boss aerodynamic Tom Speer had the idea entirely new element to open the slot between the front wing and flaps. To some extent this leaves lift and drag unchanged, but shifts the position of the profile on the back center of effort: as if by magic, the boat is balanced out by loading more rudder, and well enough to continue to do so even on the foil! And then, as commented by Caponnetto, 30 knots upwind the cleaner aerodynamics under trampoline was heard.

Open the slot is very simple: on the trailing edge of the front element there is a tab (small flaps) hinged only, with the various levels of the leads that depart from its queue, go to the big rear flap and are collected in the bottom of a horizontal bar. Raising it or lowering it widens or narrows the slot evenly, while tilting it can be varied differently along the height of the wing.

Tom Speer does not say it, but you can bet that at that point will have optimized the width of the slot edge to edge. "

This is pretty much what we read some months ago (posted by Basiliscus ?) and could have been how they "broke the code".
Not an obvious solution, with leehelm most sailors think of : racking + twisting the sails, which seems to act the contrary on a wing.
 
Still difficult the believe that slot + aero was enough to make them foil upwind. The foil retro system must have helped a lot too.
Livingston's article also had this: "The American boat was losing on every tack, every gybe. Then the Mere Grinders came to the Mighty Chiefs and said something like, Look, we can tell when the boards are loaded and when theyre not loaded. Why dont we try moving them when theyre not loaded?

Boink."

Loading the foils? Now that is something new. It's interesting, and I thought fast was an unloaded foil (like no helm on the rudder).

Also, it was mentioned that on the uphill the board cant was such that autocorrection (via dihedral) did not kick in. So they had to balance on an L foil - analogous (maybe) to what the A cats are battling with now.

#231 ubik

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 11:54 PM

 

 

I still have reservations about the effectiveness of the pod as an extension of the wing.

 

Could someone explain, if it was so successful, why they cut down its size so drastically from substantial B1 to the small triangular shaped B2?

 

Because it's about span, not area. They discovered it didn't need to be as big as they had made it for B1.

It is about span and much more. You want to increase the span (and the load/circulation) toward the bottom of the sail plan to have more lift/thrust with minimum heeling moment. Anyway, span without area = no-span. Pods are made of carbon not spirit...

The point is that the pod on B2 had sufficient area.

But B1 was faster upwind. Was it because of the bigger pod or better yaw balance?



#232 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 12:42 AM

^^ You compare apples with oranges:

 

B1 with a foil position in front of the beam vs B2 with a foils positioned aft and not yet optimized and foiling upwind.

 

IMO, it had nothing to do with the size of the pod. If it was so good, why would have they made it smaller,... to go slower ?



#233 brian weslake

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 01:24 AM

 

 

 

I still have reservations about the effectiveness of the pod as an extension of the wing.

 

Could someone explain, if it was so successful, why they cut down its size so drastically from substantial B1 to the small triangular shaped B2?

 

Because it's about span, not area. They discovered it didn't need to be as big as they had made it for B1.

It is about span and much more. You want to increase the span (and the load/circulation) toward the bottom of the sail plan to have more lift/thrust with minimum heeling moment. Anyway, span without area = no-span. Pods are made of carbon not spirit...

The point is that the pod on B2 had sufficient area.

But B1 was faster upwind. Was it because of the bigger pod or better yaw balance?

Yaw balance



#234 SW Sailor

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:06 AM

^^ You compare apples with oranges:

 

B1 with a foil position in front of the beam vs B2 with a foils positioned aft and not yet optimized and foiling upwind.

 

IMO, it had nothing to do with the size of the pod. If it was so good, why would have they made it smaller,... to go slower ?

 

so which AC35 design team have you taken a position with, I'm sure you have multiple offers at this point ?



#235 sunseeker

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:29 AM


^^ You compare apples with oranges:
 
B1 with a foil position in front of the beam vs B2 with a foils positioned aft and not yet optimized and foiling upwind.
 
IMO, it had nothing to do with the size of the pod. If it was so good, why would have they made it smaller,... to go slower ?

 
so which AC35 design team have you taken a position with, I'm sure you have multiple offers at this point ?

He's running design for MSP's Team UnderD.o.g.

#236 ~Stingray~

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 02:24 PM

Burns and Speer: Secrets of the Comeback

Here's a super good one: Part II

--

 

Secrets of the Comeback:
Control Control Control

 

Posted February 24 by Kimball Livingston

 

Part Two

 

So the boys at Oracle Racing built themselves the fastest AC72 in the galaxy, and they learned how to sail it, just in time. Otherwise we wouldn’t be speculating about another Cup-n-SF vs. San Diego, Long Beach, Newport, Hawaii.

 

Hawaii?

 

Heh.

 

http://blueplanettimes.com/?p=12020



#237 floater

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 05:12 PM

Any mysteries remaining?

One new bit: AC45's can't fly!

#238 Remodel

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 07:21 PM

 

 

 

I still have reservations about the effectiveness of the pod as an extension of the wing.

 

Could someone explain, if it was so successful, why they cut down its size so drastically from substantial B1 to the small triangular shaped B2?

 

Because it's about span, not area. They discovered it didn't need to be as big as they had made it for B1.

It is about span and much more. You want to increase the span (and the load/circulation) toward the bottom of the sail plan to have more lift/thrust with minimum heeling moment. Anyway, span without area = no-span. Pods are made of carbon not spirit...

The point is that the pod on B2 had sufficient area.

But B1 was faster upwind. Was it because of the bigger pod or better yaw balance?

Well, it didn't suffer from the lee helm that initially plagued b2.



#239 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 01:19 AM

Burns and Speer: Secrets of the Comeback

Here's a super good one: Part II

--

 

Secrets of the Comeback:
Control Control Control

 

Posted February 24 by Kimball Livingston

 

Part Two

 

So the boys at Oracle Racing built themselves the fastest AC72 in the galaxy, and they learned how to sail it, just in time. Otherwise we wouldn’t be speculating about another Cup-n-SF vs. San Diego, Long Beach, Newport, Hawaii.

 

Hawaii?

 

Heh.

 

http://blueplanettimes.com/?p=12020

Excellent article confirming what we saw before.

Basically they say that between a bracket of 6 degrees, each half degree count and that only the feedback can keep it constant.

 

IMO, the most interesting technical part:

 

“The way OTUSA solved the problem was to take advantage of the fact that the flow rate really depended on the difference between where the lever was located in space and where the valve body was located in space. When something depends on a difference, you can exploit it for feedback control. You just need to make one side of the difference correspond to what you want, and the other side of the difference correspond to what you have. OTUSA made the location of the valve body correspond to board rake by mounting on the board trunk. They made the lever position correspond to the rake they wanted by anchoring the small electromechanical actuator to the hull structure. Now the end of the rod from the electromechanical actuator corresponded to the desired rake of the board. Rod forward to rake forward, rod back to rake back. When they connected the rod to the valve lever, the feedback loop was closed.



#240 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 02:06 AM

 


 

 
so which AC35 design team have you taken a position with, I'm sure you have multiple offers at this point ?

He's running design for MSP's Team UnderD.o.g.

15 000 posts together and still trolling.



#241 SW Sailor

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 02:41 AM

 


^^ You compare apples with oranges:
 
B1 with a foil position in front of the beam vs B2 with a foils positioned aft and not yet optimized and foiling upwind.
 
IMO, it had nothing to do with the size of the pod. If it was so good, why would have they made it smaller,... to go slower ?

 
so which AC35 design team have you taken a position with, I'm sure you have multiple offers at this point ?

He's running design for MSP's Team UnderD.o.g.

 

So MSP snapped him up before anyone else could and they will win the defender series and represent GGYC.

 

Wise decision, as he's told us many times he's smarter than anyone else and will finally bring the cup to the AC trust. .

 

Maybe he'll remember us after he's famous and will still take us for a ride on a Tornado on the SF bay. :lol: :lol: :lol: .



#242 DA-WOODY

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    COUGARS COUGARS & More COUGARS

Posted 26 February 2014 - 05:13 AM

did the enjun get a time out ??

 

if so I'd like to know when in-case I ever get a time-machine that's where I want to go

 

BG was Waaaaaaay more intertaining  ;)



#243 ro!

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Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:18 PM

did the enjun get a time out ?? if so I'd like to know when in-case I ever get a time-machine that's where I want to go BG was Waaaaaaay more intertaining  ;)


Maybe the crazed Indian has backed off, just to show what a twat sailerboy is with his 'look at me taking the piss out of msp' trolls....

#244 DA-WOODY

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    COUGARS COUGARS & More COUGARS

Posted 26 February 2014 - 08:34 PM

did the enjun get a time out ?? if so I'd like to know when in-case I ever get a time-machine that's where I want to go BG was Waaaaaaay more intertaining  ;)




Maybe the crazed Indian has backed off, just to show what a twat sailerboy is with his 'look at me taking the piss out of msp' trolls....

Even trying his best to troll the enjun Sws is to interesting to fool anyone

Needs to be more flat monotone and single drum

#245 ~Stingray~

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:23 PM

It may overdramatize the importance of the lay day, but: This is a nicely-crafted WSJ article, with a terrific title.

http://online.wsj.co...7849782?tesla=y

#246 pjh

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:31 AM

It may overdramatize the importance of the lay day, but: This is a nicely-crafted WSJ article, with a terrific title.

http://online.wsj.co...7849782?tesla=y

 

Yep, nice piece. No one here will likely learn anything new, but it will be a good piece for the general public.



#247 A Florida Redneck

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:33 AM

It may overdramatize the importance of the lay day, but: This is a nicely-crafted WSJ article, with a terrific title.

http://online.wsj.co...7849782?tesla=y

Nice!  Just sent it to all my non-sailor friends.

Slick!



#248 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:50 AM

Amazing that they had not figured it out before:

 

"Back at the Oracle base, Mr. Ozanne said he had found the flaw in the computer model. To get going fast enough upwind to get on the foils, the yacht initially had to sail at an angle that would force it to cover more water—something the computer wasn't programmed to allow. When Mr. Ozanne input the wider angles into the software, the computer had recalculated the speed and showed the boat could sail faster that way, confirming what the sailors had found."



#249 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:04 AM

Amazing that they had not figured it out before:
 
"Back at the Oracle base, Mr. Ozanne said he had found the flaw in the computer model. To get going fast enough upwind to get on the foils, the yacht initially had to sail at an angle that would force it to cover more watersomething the computer wasn't programmed to allow. When Mr. Ozanne input the wider angles into the software, the computer had recalculated the speed and showed the boat could sail faster that way, confirming what the sailors had found."

Was (my middle name is Flaw) Ozanne included in the Designer team that OTUSA announced recently?

#250 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:09 AM


It may overdramatize the importance of the lay day, but: This is a nicely-crafted WSJ article, with a terrific title.

http://online.wsj.co...7849782?tesla=y

Nice!  Just sent it to all my non-sailor friends.
Slick!
Cool. It will be appreciated by precisely that group.

Apologies for missing out on the great invite in SF, thank you publicly.

#251 brian weslake

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:10 AM

Amazing that they had not figured it out before:

 

"Back at the Oracle base, Mr. Ozanne said he had found the flaw in the computer model. To get going fast enough upwind to get on the foils, the yacht initially had to sail at an angle that would force it to cover more water—something the computer wasn't programmed to allow. When Mr. Ozanne input the wider angles into the software, the computer had recalculated the speed and showed the boat could sail faster that way, confirming what the sailors had found."


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#252 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:14 AM

Amazing that they had not figured it out before:
 
"Back at the Oracle base, Mr. Ozanne said he had found the flaw in the computer model. To get going fast enough upwind to get on the foils, the yacht initially had to sail at an angle that would force it to cover more watersomething the computer wasn't programmed to allow. When Mr. Ozanne input the wider angles into the software, the computer had recalculated the speed and showed the boat could sail faster that way, confirming what the sailors had found."

Was (my middle name is Flaw) Ozanne included in the Designer team that OTUSA announced recently?

Nope

 

The ORACLE TEAM USA design team for the 35th America’s Cup:

Paul Bieker (USA), Dimitri Despierres (FRA), Len Imas (USA), Hal Youngren (USA), Aaron Perry (USA), Bryan Baker (USA), Juan Vila (ESP), Scott Ferguson (USA), Christoph Erbelding (GER), Thomas Hahn (GER), Steven Roberts (FRA), Jose Luis Vela (ESP), Tom Speer (USA), Eric Jolley (USA), Andrew Gaynor (USA), Ian Burns (AUS), JB Braun (USA), Kurt Jordan (USA)



#253 sam75

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:22 AM

It may overdramatize the importance of the lay day, but: This is a nicely-crafted WSJ article, with a terrific title.

http://online.wsj.co...7849782?tesla=y

 

Yep, nice piece. No one here will likely learn anything new, but it will be a good piece for the general public.

 

Thanks for posting, Stingray. A couple of things that are new (at least to me):

 

1) RC was the first member of OTUSA to suggest the postponement card at the end of race 5.

 

2) JS "flirted with the idea of flying to Las Vegas during the middle of the competition to see a Floyd Mayweather Jr. boxing match." The boxing match in question was on Saturday September 14. The same day as race 8 and the day before races 9 and 10. Surely he never seriously considered such an option?



#254 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:55 AM

^ Yes, the R# detail is incorrect in at least one line; that color line about him wanting to go to Vegas for the eve likely came from JS too. Like GD has said, 19 races is a lot to try keep straight off the top of your head, and GD is not even a boxing fan.

The Cup is going to get a very long entry engraved to its base, can you imagine how many revolutions it will take to read each of AC34's race entries, each with the yacht names and the race winning delta time?

#255 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:57 PM

 


Maybe he'll remember us after he's famous and will still take us for a ride on a Tornado on the SF bay. :lol: :lol: :lol: .

I never sailed with two trolls on the wire before, that would make a show.



#256 ~Stingray~

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Posted 02 March 2014 - 10:55 PM

From an excellent piece at http://www.sail-worl...,-part-I/119759

--
What do you think were the biggest factors in Oracles come-from-behind win?

Bieker: My guess is that the biggest things were dialing in the wing trim, crew work and the [foiling tacks]. One of the other big things the guys learned is that very aggressively trimming the wing-I wouldnt say pumping-is a way to get up on foils without bearing off too much. In our practice foiling upwind, the problem was that you had to bear away so much to get up on the foil that you would just barely make it back to where you were by the time you had to tack and the tacking-before the Cup-was violent. The boat would come through and the old leeward hull/new windward hull would all come down into the water and it was pretty slow.

The trick was that once you figured out how to tack the boat, you arent dragging this long skinny hull through the water in the middle of the tack, youre just up on three foils. This means that youre losing almost nothing, whereas in a normal multihull youre taking this big long thing and youre trying to make it turn through the water. You lose a lot in the beginning of the tack, but when you do a foiling tack you lose almost nothing in the first part of the turn.

The guys learned to carry some lift on the old leeward/new windward foil, and to keep that windward hull up in the air. If you never have two hulls in the water, all of a sudden it paid to be foiling at the beginning of a tack. Before, it was a such a violent maneuver that you lost a lot of speed.




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