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Portsmouth ratings, the Johnson 18, Thistle, fastest single handing di


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#1 ridethewinds

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 03:05 PM

1 - Can anyone share whether they recommend a Johnson 18 or a Thistle.  Is it true that Johnson 18's are almost impossible to get, and if so, what boat comes closest to the Johnson 18 ?   Also what are peoples thoughts on the Thistle, this seems to be more available than a Johnson 18 .  I noticed the Portsmouth ratings on the Thistle is 83, and the Johnson 18 is 86.4.  What does this difference of "3.4" translate to, faster by what ?  The thistle looks like a GREAT boat - low portsmouth, availability for sale, can carry others, but can you single hand it too ?

 

2 - To that end, how can I translate Portsmouth ratings into a meaningful rule of thumb ?  I know the lower the faster, but by how much?

 

3 - Does anyone know the fastest / lowest Portsmouth for a dinghy one can singlehand - I see the MC Scow is 87.8, while the Raider Turbo is 89.1.  Both come recommended and are single handing capable. Again what is the significance of the rating differences.   Here is a sample of portsmouth ratings for dinghies ascending:

 

Flying Dutchman (Int.) 80.1
Thistle 83
Inland 20 Scow 83.4
M-20 Scow 83.5
Highlander 84.3
29er 84.5
Osprey Mk 2&3 84.8
Osprey Mk 1&2 85
14    (Int.) 85.3
Fireball  (Int.) 85.6
470   (Int.) 86.3
Johnson 18 spi 86.4
Y-Flyer 86.7
Jollyboat 86.8
Laser Vortex 86.8
Buccaneer 18' spi (SWN18) 86.9
Frontrunner 87
Lightning (Int.) 87
Korsar 87
Laser Stratos no trap 87.3
MC Scow 87.8
Tasar 88.2
RS 200 Slp spi 88.3
Raider 2 Turbo 89.1
Interlake 89.1
M Scow (M-16 Scow) 89.3
Alpha One 89.5
Windmill 89.5
Flying Scot (19') 89.6
405   (Int.) 89.9
Finn  (Int.) 90.1
Contender  (Int.) 90.1
Precision 18.5 no spi 90.2
Celebrity w/Genoa 90.2
Albacore (15') 90.3
Vanguard 15 90.5
Laser   (Int.) 91.1


#2 Sarc

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:26 PM

Honestly unless you are an ridiculously good sailor don't even think about single-handing a Thistle. There powerful boats and they are craaaaap to hike out on but if you have a good crew they fly. I would go looking at a boat like an Mc-Scow or even a Laser before you jump to a Thistle. 



#3 ridethewinds

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:35 PM

Thanks but a Laser is too small and I am selling mine..loved it but I am 6'5"...and I want to carry occasionally 1-2 others... so something slightly bigger, and keep it under 18' feet..  really liking all 'on paper' about the Raider 2 Turbo.  But always wondering if there are good ideas.

 

Any thoughts on how can I translate Portsmouth ratings into a meaningful rule of thumb ?  I know the lower the faster, but by how much?  Trying to get my mind around it and it aint happenin'.

 

thanks !



#4 Sarc

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:15 PM

Basically Say there's a race between an A scow and a Laser. A Scow has a Dpn of 61.3 and Laser had dpn of 91.1. If A scow took 1 hour to complete course and Laser took 2 hours to complete the the math goes like this. For A scow 1x61.3= 1.63 and for Laser 2x91.1= 182.2. A scow wins with lower number. That's how DPN or Portsmouth handicap works. Hope it helps.



#5 Sarc

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:17 PM

I would recommend Mc Scow or Fireball. Fireball is basically the old M17.



#6 DaveK

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:36 PM

We are having a little match race between 4 J18's this Sunday on Lake Waco if care to join us! :) I've never sailed one before.



#7 lindy 911

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 07:39 PM

Johnson 18s are around; you just have to look. You can also call Catalina yachts as they bought the molds and stock from Johnson. Six months ago they had two or three new, unused hulls and complete rigs for around $6500. No trailer or sails. Most of the Portsmouth rating is going to depend on skipper skill. If you had a boat with a 91.o rating and sailed against a boat with a 89.0 rating and both boats finished even, the 91.0 wins.

 

A Flying Scot is an 89.0 Portsmouth, 19' long and around 800 pounds with a retracting weighted centerboard. Flies a kite and is pretty fast off the wind and very stable. There's about 5500 of them in the US and they are bullet proof. Might want to check one out. Easy to single hand but need crew to race in any wind over 7 or fly the kite.



#8 ortegakid

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:05 PM

An IC has a PN of 79.1, and AC 76.1, but unless you are Big D and a great sailor, still wont win. In other words, a well sailed laser can win a lot of PN races and a contender kills us in TCC. Real PN# are 'sposed to be based on hour race and wind adjusted, ie Contender gets faster as wind comes up. See the TCC pages for great arguments,

discussions



#9 Steam Flyer

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:07 PM

1 - Can anyone share whether they recommend a Johnson 18 or a Thistle.  Is it true that Johnson 18's are almost impossible to get, and if so, what boat comes closest to the Johnson 18 ?   Also what are peoples thoughts on the Thistle, this seems to be more available than a Johnson 18 .  I noticed the Portsmouth ratings on the Thistle is 83, and the Johnson 18 is 86.4.  What does this difference of "3.4" translate to, faster by what ?  The thistle looks like a GREAT boat - low portsmouth, availability for sale, can carry others, but can you single hand it too ?

 

2 - To that end, how can I translate Portsmouth ratings into a meaningful rule of thumb ?  I know the lower the faster, but by how much?

 

3 - Does anyone know the fastest / lowest Portsmouth for a dinghy one can singlehand - I see the MC Scow is 87.8, while the Raider Turbo is 89.1.  Both come recommended and are single handing capable. Again what is the significance of the rating differences.   Here is a sample of portsmouth ratings for dinghies ascending:

 

Flying Dutchman (Int.) 80.1
Thistle 83
Inland 20 Scow 83.4
M-20 Scow 83.5
Highlander 84.3
29er 84.5
Osprey Mk 2&3 84.8
Osprey Mk 1&2 85
14    (Int.) 85.3
Fireball  (Int.) 85.6
470   (Int.) 86.3
Johnson 18 spi 86.4
Y-Flyer 86.7
Jollyboat 86.8
Laser Vortex 86.8
Buccaneer 18' spi (SWN18) 86.9
Frontrunner 87
Lightning (Int.) 87
Korsar 87
Laser Stratos no trap 87.3
MC Scow 87.8
Tasar 88.2
RS 200 Slp spi 88.3
Raider 2 Turbo 89.1
Interlake 89.1
M Scow (M-16 Scow) 89.3
Alpha One 89.5
Windmill 89.5
Flying Scot (19') 89.6
405   (Int.) 89.9
Finn  (Int.) 90.1
Contender  (Int.) 90.1
Precision 18.5 no spi 90.2
Celebrity w/Genoa 90.2
Albacore (15') 90.3
Vanguard 15 90.5
Laser   (Int.) 91.1

 

Portsmouth handicap... Lower equals faster.

 

But remember, size=speed too. For example, a Highlander is a 20' boat, a Lightning is a 19 ft-er, so they are both faster & more powerful than most 15' boats... equipment also makes a difference. Some boats are noted to have spinnakers, some have trapeze. A 15 ft-er with a trapeze is going to be able outrun a bigger boat without, as soon as there is enough wind to make use of it.

 

The Portsmouth handicap in the US is under reported and not really all that accurate. Few clubs report data, I bet none have sent in times for the Johnson 18 in over 15 years. It would be a poor guide to pick a boat IMHO. The first selection criteria is what configuration of boat you want... centerboard, sloop or cat, spinnaker or not, trap or not, etc etc.

 

The Portsmouth handicap on the Jn-18 is particularly misleading, it is not a good light air boat and is a terrible 3-hand boat. I used to singlehand ours a lot but it's got a powerful rig that you rapidly start choking back when the wind gets up. In 10~12 with two average size people hiking there are not many centerboard dinghies that will keep up with it, we used to outrun Thistles handily and annoy the crap out of 505s, E-Scows, and a variety of beach cats. There are over a hundred out there, they occasionally turn up on Craigslist or Ebay so if that's really your pick (and it's not a bad one IMHO except that it's not good for 3 people unless one of them is an agile adventurous child) just keep your eyes open.

 

Below is adapted from a table of boat info

 

FB- Doug

 

Flying Dutchman (Int.) 80.1  .... trap+spin, not recommended as a singlehander
Thistle 83  ....spin, difficult to rig & handle, not recommended as a singlehander
Inland 20 Scow 83.4   .... spin, possible singlehander
M-20 Scow 83.5  .... spin, possible singlehander
Highlander 84.3  .... spin, big for a singlehander but possible
29er 84.5 .... trap+spin, good singlehander skiff trainer but really for small people 2-up; 3 will sink it
Osprey Mk 2&3 84.8 .... ???
Osprey Mk 1&2 85 ....???
14    (Int.) 85.3.... trap+spin, not recommended as a singlehander except maybe for Superman
Fireball  (Int.) 85.6.... trap X2 +spin, not recommended as a singlehander or for 3
470   (Int.) 86.3.... trap+spin, possible as a singlehander, difficult for 3
Johnson 18 spi 86.4 ......... spin, possible as a singlehander, difficult for 3
Y-Flyer 86.7......... spin, possible as a singlehander, possible for 3
Jollyboat 86.8... ???
Laser Vortex 86.8 .... ???
Buccaneer 18' spi (SWN18) 86.9 ........ spin, possible as a singlehander, probably pretty good for 3
Frontrunner 87 ... harder to find than a Jn-18
Lightning (Int.) 87   .... spin, big for a singlehander but possible, normally crewed by 3, can take 4~6
Korsar 87... ???
Laser Stratos no trap 87.3 ....???
MC Scow 87.8 ... normally a singlehander, can take 2
Tasar 88.2 ... normally 2, possible singlehander possible for 3,
RS 200 Slp spi 88.3 ... spi, normally 2, possible singlehander, possible for 3 if small
Raider 2 Turbo 89.1 ... spi, normally 2, possible singlehander, possible for 3 or 4
Interlake 89.1 ... spi, normally 2, possible singlehander, possible for 3 or 4
M Scow (M-16 Scow) 89.3 ... spi, normally 2, possible singlehander, possible for 3
Alpha One 89.5... ???
Windmill 89.5 ... possible singlehander, normally 2, difficult for 3
Flying Scot (19') 89.6 ... spi, normally 2, possible singlehander, possible for 3~8
405   (Int.) 89.9 .... smaller than a 29er
Finn  (Int.) 90.1 ... singlehander, might try 2 but only with somebody you want to injure or scare
Contender  (Int.) 90.1... singlehander, might try 2 but only with somebody with a high sense of adventure
Precision 18.5 no spi 90.2 ... spi?, normally 2, possible singlehander, possible for 3 or 4
Celebrity w/Genoa 90.2 ... spi?, normally 2, difficult singlehander, possible for 3 or 4, nice classic looking boat
Albacore (15') 90.3 ... no spi, normally 2, possible singlehander, possible for 3 or 4 if not large people
Vanguard 15 90.5... no spi, normally 2, possible singlehander, possible for 3
Laser   (Int.) 91.1 ... you already know what one of these is


#10 John D

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 08:52 PM

You should probably add the Megabyte to you list too!

Selections in red are designed to be single handed and that can be sailed to their ratings in anything over 10 kts. Not so with the double handers

Solo, the double (triple also) handers are going to be a handful in over 10. I've had a Thistle out in over 15 solo and very happy to get back to the dock so it can be done but not really fun.

There isn't any really magic formula to equate PN's to which will be the right boat for you. The PN will give you an indication of the boats' performance compared to other boats when properly sailed with the ideal crew skill and weight.

I'd consider how much time I would be single handing and then with crew, would it be skilled racing crew and would I be racing or just having fun.

The 29er XX is designed to be single handed and is probably the fastest on your list but the rating should go up a point or so and like the contender, the skipper will be on a trap.

Do more research on the water.

1 - Can anyone share whether they recommend a Johnson 18 or a Thistle.  Is it true that Johnson 18's are almost impossible to get, and if so, what boat comes closest to the Johnson 18 ?   Also what are peoples thoughts on the Thistle, this seems to be more available than a Johnson 18 .  I noticed the Portsmouth ratings on the Thistle is 83, and the Johnson 18 is 86.4.  What does this difference of "3.4" translate to, faster by what ?  The thistle looks like a GREAT boat - low portsmouth, availability for sale, can carry others, but can you single hand it too ?

 

2 - To that end, how can I translate Portsmouth ratings into a meaningful rule of thumb ?  I know the lower the faster, but by how much?

 

3 - Does anyone know the fastest / lowest Portsmouth for a dinghy one can singlehand - I see the MC Scow is 87.8, while the Raider Turbo is 89.1.  Both come recommended and are single handing capable. Again what is the significance of the rating differences.   Here is a sample of portsmouth ratings for dinghies ascending:

 

Flying Dutchman (Int.) 80.1
Thistle 83
Inland 20 Scow 83.4
M-20 Scow 83.5
Highlander 84.3
29er (XX) 84.5
Osprey Mk 2&3 84.8
Osprey Mk 1&2 85
14    (Int.) 85.3
Fireball  (Int.) 85.6
470   (Int.) 86.3
Johnson 18 spi 86.4
Y-Flyer 86.7
Jollyboat 86.8
Laser Vortex 86.8
Buccaneer 18' spi (SWN18) 86.9
Frontrunner 87
Lightning (Int.) 87
Korsar 87
Laser Stratos no trap 87.3
MC Scow 87.8
Tasar 88.2
RS 200 Slp spi 88.3
Raider 2 Turbo 89.1
Interlake 89.1
M Scow (M-16 Scow) 89.3
Alpha One 89.5
Windmill 89.5
Flying Scot (19') 89.6
405   (Int.) 89.9
Finn  (Int.) 90.1
Contender  (Int.) 90.1
Precision 18.5 no spi 90.2
Celebrity w/Genoa 90.2
Albacore (15') 90.3
Vanguard 15 90.5
Laser   (Int.) 91.1


#11 SailorTim

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 10:47 PM

18 is quite a Johnson!


Sorry.

Someone had to do it.

#12 Pete M

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 11:51 PM

that pn list is a bit out of date - the I14 is quite a bit faster than all the boats on that list

RYA PN Yardstick has the 49er fastest and I14 second



#13 lonbordin

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:11 AM

A LOT has to do where you're going to be sailing and what the prevailing conditions are...

 

For instance the midwest lakes near my locale really favor the Thistle.  Damn things can ghost along in nearly no wind conditions and handle the motorboat chop pretty well.



#14 ridethewinds

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:47 AM

Pete - lets be clear the Lido 14 (assume thats what you mean by l14) has a PN of 98.9, which is not in the same ballpark.  Its a cool boat but probably doesn't plane and I cant imagine having to right it in a capsize, that thing would fill with water wouldnt it since its not self bailing ?  Who still makes these ?

 

Lonbordin - So are you saying a Thistle is a boat single handing capable ?  I've heard on this thread its not, and things like "difficult to rig & handle, not recommended as a singlehander"

 

Thanks all !



#15 Red Dragon

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:35 AM

I can not for a moment racing a Thistle single-handed. I hope you are a good swimmer?

 

Get a Finn!

 

RD



#16 Pete M

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:04 AM

I14 means International 14



#17 Fishingmickey

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 04:18 AM

Boy, what a bunch of confusing shit.... let me add mine to the pile.  Portsmouth ratings are based time on time. You can almost use it as a percentage. A boat with a rating of 100 would not get any time added to its elapsed time. A boat with a rating of 90 would get ten percent of it's elapsed time added to the corrected time. The lower the handicap the more time is added. It is based off of a race with a equal amount of beats, reaching and runs. So say the race is sixty minutes long. You have to convert the elapsed time to seconds then multiply by 100 and divide by rating/handicap.... Elapsed time x 100 divided by handicap = corrected time. The examples below are based on a one hour elapsed time.
 
IC at 79.1 = 60 minutes x 60 seconds = 3600 x 100 = 360,000 (elapsed time)/79.6 = 4551.2 seconds (corrected time)/60 = 75.85 minutes
 
Contender at 90.1 = 3600 x 100 = 360,000/90.1 = 3995.5 seconds/60 = 66.59 minutes
 
Johnson 18 at 86.4 = 360,000/86.4 = 4166.66 seconds/60 = 69.44 minutes.   
 
I hope the calculations helps shed some light.  If I am racing my Contender against a IC to use a rough estimation. The IC would have to have finished about eight minutes or so ahead to win.
 
Then you need to look at the wind ratings too!  My Contender in a breeze will plane up wind. It's high wind rating is 82. A IC high wind rating is almost the same as it's DPN (average) rating at 79.
 
From these two examples of IC and Contender you can see the rough percentage application. IC is 11 percent faster, 10 percent of a hour is 6 minutes is a good indicator of at least how much the IC would need to beat me by.  Each dog has it's day in the light the Contender takes a beating if DPN numbers are used. The Contender's light wind rating jumps to 95.9 making it a dog especially in the light air and on a windward leeward (sausage course).  Different boats perform differently. The Thistle with it's huge main and long water line rock it the light air. Each dog has its day when racing Portsmouth.  Using the percentage method you can usually tell how your doing during a race. The classless fleet has the most fun and the most interesting boats!
 
I feel like I have added enough to the pile for this post.
 
Later's and sail what you love to sail.
FM

#18 ridethewinds

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 04:43 AM

Thanks for the input, wow that was a tirade under the influence of a few drinks maybe ? Anyway, you rock, I'm buzzed too, but hey excellent effort, that was one of your dog days "in the light" for sure right there.   The anarchy is just awesome here.  More info on Portsmouth than I'd ever imagined, but I still havent had the breakthrough / aha moment yet with clarity.  Perhaps when totally sober tomorrow Ill look back and go "oh yah, thats what he was saying...!"

 

Anyway, I hear you all that the Thistle is not a great boat to single hand and can be painful in 15+ conditions.  I rather be out in a Raider Turbo in those.

 

Wanted to share this picture of a guy single handing a Thistle -- see, its actually done :)

 

Oh, and a gorgeous Johnson 18...what a good looking boat.

 

 

Attached Files



#19 Fishingmickey

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:54 AM

The Thistle is either two big guys or usually sailed by three. The Johnson 18 is a great boat for double handed racing.



#20 Cavandish

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:48 AM

What do you weigh?

 

Buccaneers are pretty easy to single hand and depower if the breeze comes up (roller furling jib). I've never tried the spin while alone though and not using it will effect the rating. They are pretty easy to steer with your weight and trim though.

 

Here is a video of a guy doing it in light air. Over 10 knots, it would get trickier.

 

 

The question would be at what point would the available movable ballast be insufficient for the task.

 

I would also consider how bad a predicament i might find myself in if it all went bad. Although i kinda suck and am prone to predicaments, no way would i want a thistle without an extra person, they swamp if capsized and submarines sail like shit.

 

 

 

 

 

 



#21 BalticBandit

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:35 AM

Not sure where you got your numbers But you are missing the Musto MPX skiff and RS 700 at 73 (the Musto is listed at 80, but that's because they don't seem to have any race results - the Musto is actually a touch faster than the RS700)

 

these are singlehanded trapeze Assys and in dinghies ONLY the A-Scow is faster and that is typically sailed with a crew of about 7.

 

Note the British version http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/technical/Web%20Documents/py-general/2013ListFinal.pdf  is more accurate as they have active PY racing nationally.

 

The 49er is at 740
the I-4 is at 780

Foiling Moth is at 600

MPS and RS700 both come in at 860

IC comes in at 870

 

Now it is possible to sail an I-14 and 49er single handed in 10knots of breeze and under.  But once it gets over 12 it basically is impossible to do, they are just too powerful and designed for double handing (at 12 knots both boats have both crew fully out on trapeze)

 

The IC and MPS/RS700 are basically even with a slight nod to the two trap boats.  

 

Fireballs are 975.  Significantly slower. A Finn is 1053 and a Laser is 1087.

 

 

So on a 1/2 hour race  (30x60) 

 

Moth pays a 30 minute handicap
49er pays 24.3 mins
I-14 pays 23.1 mins

MPS pays 20.9 mins

IC pays 20.6 mins

Fireball pays 18.5 mins

Finn pays 17.1 mins

Laser pays 16.6 mins

 

So the moth is expected to finish roughy 14 minutes ahead of the Laser, the MPS 4 minutes

 

Now the Laser Vortex in the UK is 945  So making the conversion to 86.8 means the Johnson 18 would come in around 940 on the UK Portsmouth.  Faster than a contender but slower than a Laser 4000



#22 fastyacht

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:11 PM

Weight is important.

I am 220 and I find the V15 much more fun and more comfortable than a laser to singlehand. The laser in wind leaves my knees in pain, my butt drags in the spray etc.  V15 none of that and the jib balances the helm.  Last weekend I sailed the Laser in 15 to 20 kts on sat and the V15 in 18-22 kts on Sunday. The V15 was more fun.

 

Other good idea is a windmill. Friend of mine trapezes his alone and it is fantastically fast and also well-mannered. (You wouldn't need the trap but it would be a hoot).

 

Johnson 18 would be really difficult to recover after a capsize, singlehanded. I've watched one turtle and stay that way for a long time with one guy.

 

Of course you can singlehand a thistle (or a FD or a 505) but you are vastly outnumbered by the boat in anything but a nice light breeze. Actually a 505 is quite manageable if you are 200 lbs plus. I still do it and I am getting old.

 

The MC is another perfect boat for singlehanding with no problem taking passengers. Pretty amazing speed and with a trailer launching it is easy to handle. Heavy at 400 lbs. So stable you can sit on the boat and furl the sail, in the water!  V15 and windmill are light at around 200 lbs roughly so easily pulled up a beach on a dolley.



#23 Seattle Dinghyer

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:15 PM

Can we finally have a pat response for this question that arises EVERY SINGLE WEEK?  

 

WHICH DINGHY IS RIGHT FOR ME? 

 

Steam Flyer was right on the mark for this... expounding the benefits of each boat.  

 

I think this guy needs a Wayfarer, fast, stable, and can be singled.  It can also carry passengers.  

 

The Thistle is possibly the most uncomfortable boat in the entire world, and but could be the most fun if they only adopt a trapeze.  It would also eliminate a third person needed for crew.  



#24 ridethewinds

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 03:49 AM

Thanks but Wayfarers built within the last 10 years are not easy to find used ... I agree they look good...  Also hard to find new, Abbott Boats website doesnt exist from what I can see and Hartley is in the UK.  Yes Steam Flyer's response Rocks !



#25 teener

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 04:21 AM

I am 220 and I find the V15 much more fun and more comfortable than a laser to singlehand. The laser in wind leaves my knees in pain, my butt drags in the spray etc.  V15 none of that and the jib balances the helm.  Last weekend I sailed the Laser in 15 to 20 kts on sat and the V15 in 18-22 kts on Sunday. The V15 was more fun.

+1 but it's not for lightweights



#26 mg38024

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 05:01 AM

A Thistle can be sailed solo in light air quite easily provided the boat is rigged to facilitate it. I've raced one many times by myself, with a spinnaker, in light air. However, I wouldn't dare to try it in anything over about 8MPH. I'm certain I couldn't right the boat myself should I capsize due a cleated sheet, bad tack, etc.

#27 ortegakid

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 02:52 PM

Just man up and sail the fastest single handed mono hull non foiling dinghy; an AC! Allthough would like to see if a Musto can compete on a course. We don't get any out our way.



#28 BalticBandit

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 07:46 PM

I am 220 and I find the V15 much more fun and more comfortable than a laser to singlehand. The laser in wind leaves my knees in pain, my butt drags in the spray etc.  V15 none of that and the jib balances the helm.  Last weekend I sailed the Laser in 15 to 20 kts on sat and the V15 in 18-22 kts on Sunday. The V15 was more fun.

+1 but it's not for lightweights

Which is why something like a Laser II that has been turboed or a 29er is preferrable.  at 220 you are slightly light for big breeze, but not by that much since you have all 220# on the trap giving you say 1100FtLbs of RM

 

the ideal combined crew weight for a Laser II is 250#-320#.  But that's typically split 55:45 Skipper and crew.  So that means for a 285# combined crew weight you get about 1300FtLbs of Rm  and a 250# crew will have 1100Ft lbs. 

 

Furthermore unlike the combined crews, you have all your weight at the pitching moment so the boat pitches a lot less. 



#29 ridethewinds

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:27 PM

The Raider is the fit for me with what I'm looking for right now.  But man that Johnson 18 is a nice looking craft (dont worry I'm not normally into "Johnson")...seriously though too bad they stopped making them.  Someone should step up and come out with one that looks like that but make them slightly shorter, eg 15.5' - 16' so it fits in the garage and can still carry 2-3 people..  

 

Seattle Dinghyer, its healthy to re-evaluate one's dinghy, get used to it.  You must be one of the few who has exactly the sailboat you want.  There is and never will be a stock answer.  The input here has been great.  Love the ever present anarchy aspect too.



#30 kentwm

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 09:18 PM

The Raider is the fit for me with what I'm looking for right now.  But man that Johnson 18 is a nice looking craft (dont worry I'm not normally into "Johnson")...seriously though too bad they stopped making them.  Someone should step up and come out with one that looks like that but make them slightly shorter, eg 15.5' - 16' so it fits in the garage and can still carry 2-3 people..  

 

Seattle Dinghyer, its healthy to re-evaluate one's dinghy, get used to it.  You must be one of the few who has exactly the sailboat you want.  There is and never will be a stock answer.  The input here has been great.  Love the ever present anarchy aspect too.

 

Where are you located? I am in Houston and selling my Raider 16. I've only had it out once this past summer, too many other sailing activities going on.

 

-Kent



#31 DennisY

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 01:58 PM

"Frontrunner 87 ... harder to find than a Jn-18"

 

8 boat fleet at Fishing Bay YC in Deltaville VA. Primarily a Chesapeake Bay area boat.



#32 DennisY

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:08 PM

Thanks but Wayfarers built within the last 10 years are not easy to find used ... I agree they look good...  Also hard to find new, Abbott Boats website doesnt exist from what I can see and Hartley is in the UK.  Yes Steam Flyer's response Rocks !

From all I can gather Abbot is no longer in business since many of the moulds, etc were destroyed in the 2006 fire. I tried contacting them but got no response. 



#33 ridethewinds

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:23 PM

What about the VX One, any thoughts on it  ?  Is that one of the best / top tier sport boats on the market today (around $30k?)..  What are folks takes on that boat, it looks amazing !

 

the SC - 20 looks cool too, check out the 2011 sailboats of the year - 

http://www.sailingwo...llery-directory



#34 kmccabe

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:30 PM

Thanks but Wayfarers built within the last 10 years are not easy to find used ... I agree they look good...  Also hard to find new, Abbott Boats website doesnt exist from what I can see and Hartley is in the UK.  Yes Steam Flyer's response Rocks !

 

I know the guy who imports the Wayfarer. 

 

Umm - I also know someone who has a brand new unfinished woodie hangin in the rafters of his barn. 



#35 Claire1000

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 12:13 PM

FYI there is a Johnson 18 for sale up in one of the cold states. PM me if interested. 



#36 Blackjack2

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 03:54 PM

Thanks for the input, wow that was a tirade under the influence of a few drinks maybe ? Anyway, you rock, I'm buzzed too, but hey excellent effort, that was one of your dog days "in the light" for sure right there.   The anarchy is just awesome here.  More info on Portsmouth than I'd ever imagined, but I still havent had the breakthrough / aha moment yet with clarity.  Perhaps when totally sober tomorrow Ill look back and go "oh yah, thats what he was saying...!"

 

Anyway, I hear you all that the Thistle is not a great boat to single hand and can be painful in 15+ conditions.  I rather be out in a Raider Turbo in those.

 

Wanted to share this picture of a guy single handing a Thistle -- see, its actually done :)

 

Oh, and a gorgeous Johnson 18...what a good looking boat.

OK, Iv'e owned a thistle and I had so much fun it kept me in stitches (well not literally, but plenty of bruises).Single handing on inland lakes with light air was fun but tenious never letting the mainsheet out of hand if there were puffs around. Mostly because a single handed capsize was a disaster.

When the J 18's did their southern tour 15 or more years ago I couldn't understand why they didn't catch on. I was racing small keel boats at the time and really ampt on that. But, back then the J 18 would have been my choice for double handed dinghy racing. For single handing, not so much.

So, what ja decide? .........Hopefully not another weekly troll.



#37 ridethewinds

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 11:05 PM

Extremely pleased with the Raider 2 Turbo, video enjoying it a few weeks ago first time using a goPro, will publish another on a windier day, this was pretty calm:

 



#38 BobBill

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 09:54 AM

Sarc +1  MC or C boat (bigger and faster) for inland water, not seaboard.

 

Neither the Thistle or 18 appear to be easily singled and the former is hard on butt as well...and speed is so overblown...it is always relative. I mean, an InterClub dinghy is or appears fast when in it and or when conditions are right. Portsmouth ratings are also relative as noted, but do help sort out some differences in a cocktail event.

 

I know zilch about the Raider etc, but it does appear to be a wet-boat. Bay is usually a bit choppier and windier than the above vid.

 

Take your time choosing, seriously. It is amazing how things change you get out on a given boat, if it is right for the water.



#39 EdFontana

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 02:01 PM

Vx One






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