Jump to content


What is the new Velocitek they are teasing?


  • Please log in to reply
107 replies to this topic

#1 C Dub

C Dub

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 109 posts
  • Location:From the OC

Posted 27 September 2013 - 04:25 AM

Anyone heard any rumors? I'm buying a Prostart and TackTick, maybe I should hold off....

#2 allen

allen

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,420 posts
  • Location:SF Bay

Posted 27 September 2013 - 04:49 AM

vt.jpg



#3 C Dub

C Dub

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 109 posts
  • Location:From the OC

Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:19 AM

Yeah, that one

#4 Stephano

Stephano

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 32 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island
  • Interests:Varnishing for boatspeed. Wooden masts that don't break. Staying on the tender.

Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:38 PM

Looks like the put a light in... hooray!

 

Yes, I'm a Velocitek fanboy...



#5 C Dub

C Dub

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 109 posts
  • Location:From the OC

Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:09 PM

Any ideas?

#6 Stephano

Stephano

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 32 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island
  • Interests:Varnishing for boatspeed. Wooden masts that don't break. Staying on the tender.

Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:02 PM

Yeah- I understand the helmsman has to wear it on his chest..

It has a large blue hammer like device attached to it (out of frame on the picture) called a "shift".

If the helmsman doesn’t tack when the display indicates a favorable veer/back of the breeze....

The "shift" pounds the helmsman senseless until he tacks the boat.

For reaching legs the bow man wears it and everyone has a laugh...

I'm a bit worried about battery consumption.



#7 FatimaRules

FatimaRules

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 793 posts

Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:55 AM

Yeah- I understand the helmsman has to wear it on his chest..
It has a large blue hammer like device attached to it (out of frame on the picture) called a "shift".
If the helmsman doesnt tack when the display indicates a favorable veer/back of the breeze....
The "shift" pounds the helmsman senseless until he tacks the boat.
For reaching legs the bow man wears it and everyone has a laugh...
I'm a bit worried about battery consumption.


😂😂😂😂😂

#8 BalticBandit

BalticBandit

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,728 posts

Posted 30 September 2013 - 12:56 PM

Ok so much for this keyboard not being sticky....



#9 Stephano

Stephano

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 32 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island
  • Interests:Varnishing for boatspeed. Wooden masts that don't break. Staying on the tender.

Posted 30 September 2013 - 07:24 PM

I've been interrogating the Velocitek guys in the sales and service departments hoping I could get some info. They don't all work from the same location so I was hopeful they might not be all on the same party line....

 

Best I can discern is that they all agree that the new unit is not a replacement for the existing product line like when they made the S-10, SC-1 to the Pro Start progression. The new unit is supposed to complement the ProStart and SpeedPuck. So SOG and COG won’t likely be selling points. I see a lot of ProStarts mounted just above TackTick boxes. Given that Raymarine has taken TackTick over and how much it would tweak me to see somebody else’s product next to mine, I’m guessing that’s where they may be headed, ahem, headed. But can’t get a confirm or deny from them.

 

Another guess is that they used to be big on VMG calculations (S-10 and SC-1) but there was too much lag in the data, especially for boats that plane. I’d like to have that back.

 

They would confirm that the unit has lighting and have assured me they carefully considered the battery life of the unit and it will not be a problem. I also got unanimous confirmation that they have pioneered software that knows if it is installed on a 4ktsb and rolls the display over to DOWN THE SHAFT if the data indicates speed better than 6 kts.



#10 DFL1010

DFL1010

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 151 posts
  • Location:Falmouth, UK

Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:10 PM

Cn we please have it where the display isn't fucked up by wearing sunnies please??

P.s. this is not an invitation for a discussion on the best sunnies to use with velocitek...

#11 jarcher

jarcher

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 923 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:22 PM

Cn we please have it where the display isn't fucked up by wearing sunnies please??

P.s. this is not an invitation for a discussion on the best sunnies to use with velocitek...

 

If your sunglasses are polarized (as most of us use) its going to be a challenge to give you a display that is not fucked up by wearing them...



#12 allen

allen

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,420 posts
  • Location:SF Bay

Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:28 PM

LCD displays work by polarization so there will be an angle where the sunglasses make the display background go as black as the numbers.  The trick is to get the angle of polarization of the sunglasses and the display aligned such that they don't interfere.  This can also be influenced by how you tilt your head.  This is a common problem so if Velocitek ignored it and used the wrong angle of polarization in the old display, they should be able to fix it.



#13 Rushman

Rushman

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 242 posts
  • Location:Was Auckland, now in Canberra

Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:38 PM

I have found with one set of prescription polarized lenses that some screens turn black. Tilting head or rotating the offending screen 90 degrees usually solves the problem.

I wonder if the local lens grinder could create the lens at the correct rotation so this didn't happen.

Are all off the shelf sun glass lenses cut at the same rotation? Could trying on various pairs till you find the right rotation solve this problem?

How much does it cost to replace the lenses so you get the correct lens rotation out of the box?

#14 DFL1010

DFL1010

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 151 posts
  • Location:Falmouth, UK

Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:41 PM

Off the shelf sunnies (Kaenon for the record) and it's not just the head tilting thing. There's weird rainbow coloured lines across the screen, just like when someone stands on my plexiglass coach roof hatch, like stress lines. Are they all like this or have I got a duffer?

#15 FatimaRules

FatimaRules

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 793 posts

Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:43 PM

You kind of need the polarisation to lay along the horizontal otherwise you don't get the benefit of reduced glare from horizontal surfaces.

I've given up on polarised lenses as suddenly realised I only do sports with LCD screens!

#16 allen

allen

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,420 posts
  • Location:SF Bay

Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:52 PM

You kind of need the polarisation to lay along the horizontal otherwise you don't get the benefit of reduced glare from horizontal surfaces.
 

So the sunglasses are fixed which means it is up to the display makers to insure compatibility.  You should be able to hold your head straight and read a display.  I think gas stations have dealt with this and Velocitek should as well.



#17 jarcher

jarcher

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 923 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island

Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:57 PM

If you see rainbows in the LCD through your polarized lenses, this is indicative of a relatively low quality covering over the display. Perhaps plastic instead of a nice quality glass. Could be part of the display or something the manufacturer of the device put on top.

 

I have always wondered if circularly polarized sunglasses could be made...



#18 knobblyoldjimbo

knobblyoldjimbo

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,527 posts
  • Location:effinque (FNQ) AUS

Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:23 PM

you mean like this type of lense:

 

http://www.getfpv.co...CFUFepQodyjkA5A

 

for a gopro.  I remember them for camera lenses way back when I was interested in stuff (and had my own OM1).



#19 lakepirate

lakepirate

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 174 posts
  • Location:Detroit - Western Lake Erie

Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:22 AM

Cn we please have it where the display isn't fucked up by wearing sunnies please??

P.s. this is not an invitation for a discussion on the best sunnies to use with velocitek...

 

If your sunglasses are polarized (as most of us use) its going to be a challenge to give you a display that is not fucked up by wearing them...

 

This has been covered and there is an option that works with polarized sunglasses http://forums.sailin...howtopic=149916



#20 SA Lurker

SA Lurker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 496 posts

Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:01 PM

If you see rainbows in the LCD through your polarized lenses, this is indicative of a relatively low quality covering over the display. Perhaps plastic instead of a nice quality glass. Could be part of the display or something the manufacturer of the device put on top.

 

I have always wondered if circularly polarized sunglasses could be made...

 

 

A "nice quality glass" like this?

 

Attached File  broken-iphone-screen.jpg   137.39K   5 downloads

 

 

The iPhone uses top-shelf Corning Gorilla Glass.

 

There are up- and down-sides to most product decisions.



#21 Stephano

Stephano

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 32 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island
  • Interests:Varnishing for boatspeed. Wooden masts that don't break. Staying on the tender.

Posted 02 October 2013 - 08:27 PM

Here's the latest-

 

I now am led to believe that there is no user input required with the new unit. So I think that wrecks my VMG guess. I'm also told that there were at least 2 prototypes at the J70 NAs. I have also determined that it was not on Muse. Anybody got any peeps who were at the J70 NAs?

 

In other news after a violent response from lake sailors the "down the shaft" over speed readout will be eliminated in favor of, "on the trailer" if the unit is on a 4ktsb and not near salt water. Also, I understand that FoxConn is denying all rumors about employee depression resulting from the pressure to produce enough of the new units. If I read the memo correctly the employees were depressed when they found out they were not picked to be on the elite team producing the new unit... I think that makes it ok, um, right?



#22 C Dub

C Dub

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 109 posts
  • Location:From the OC

Posted 03 October 2013 - 02:21 AM

I'm going with a competitor to the TackTick. Maybe with Bluetooth or some other tech so it talks to the Prostart.

#23 Stephano

Stephano

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 32 posts
  • Location:Rhode Island
  • Interests:Varnishing for boatspeed. Wooden masts that don't break. Staying on the tender.

Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:54 AM

Yep- I think I was off base with the VMG stuff.

 

I hope they have a mount that will fit both the new box and the ProStart in my current bracket.

 

None of us have a friend at the J70 NAs who would have seen it??



#24 rebootfkz

rebootfkz

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:48 PM

see there apparrel :

 

http://store.velocit...=7&category=496

 

Look like a OD class legal tacktick compeditor. Don't know more than there website states:

 

To bad I don't have de Do to buy this one. Wil continue to use mij SC10 not OD legal in my class.

 

Shift

  •  
  • Intuitive shift-tracking with large buttons for storing port and starboard reference headings.
  •  
  • High-accuracy, inertially-stabilized magnetic compass.
  •  
  • Does not use GPS or any other radio signals; One Design class-legal.
  •  
  • Same easy-to-use countdown timer as the ProStart.
  •  
  • Solar powered with 100+ hour battery reserve.
  •  
  • Red LED backlight protects night vision.


#25 rebootfkz

rebootfkz

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 29 posts

Posted 21 October 2013 - 07:32 AM

At least they read this topic over at Velocitek. Still like the SC-10 mount i don't use the high tec velcro just tye and un tye the unit.

 

yours FKZ 



#26 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,347 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:10 PM

Launch is today.  Stand by for details.



#27 freddy

freddy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 244 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:16 PM

wouldn't appear to do anything that the Tactick Micro compass doesn't do - ie gyro compass and countdown, except twice the price.

 

Shame I was hoping they would have put the gyro compass into a prostart, which is what is really needed



#28 Murphness

Murphness

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 703 posts
  • Location:Boston
  • Interests:Sailing, Brewing Beer, Drinking Beer, Skiing and other outsidey things

Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:24 PM

Holy shit! $699!?!

 

Does look pretty slick though... I'll stick with logging compass readings until there's a used one for $200 or someone writes the same app for my phone...



#29 jackdaw

jackdaw

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,183 posts
  • Location:Minneapolis, MN USA
  • Interests:The usual stuff.

Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:00 PM

wouldn't appear to do anything that the Tactick Micro compass doesn't do - ie gyro compass and countdown, except twice the price.

 

Shame I was hoping they would have put the gyro compass into a prostart, which is what is really needed

 

+1



#30 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:13 PM

wouldn't appear to do anything that the Tactick Micro compass doesn't do - ie gyro compass and countdown, except twice the price.

 

Shame I was hoping they would have put the gyro compass into a prostart, which is what is really needed

 

Both the Tacktick Micro ($459) and the Tacktick Race Master ($850) are essentially floating card compasses with a digital wrapper.

 

If you take one apart, you will find a magnet floating in a bulb of fluid.

 

The Shift by comparison has no moving parts. It uses a 3-axis solid-state gyro and a 3-axis accelerometer to digitally gimbal a 3-axis magnetometer. This approach is common in aerospace applications but it has not been used in a self-contained sailing instrument before.

 

The result is better accuracy, better tilt-compensation and a better dynamic response.  The instrument responds more quickly when your heading actually changes while at the same time being more stable when you are sailing a steady course.

 

Here's Bora describing what this feels like in practice 

 

 

The Shift also has much bigger numbers and a more practical user interface than either Tacktick compass.



#31 DRDNA

DRDNA

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 362 posts
  • Location:Ventucky

Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:19 PM

Hey, all I need is big numbers and accuracy- sounds like a better deal than a regular sized tacktick racemaster-type. (I hope)



#32 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,347 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:23 PM

i like the size of the digits compared to the $800 Racemaster.  It seems to do everything the Racemaster does but better, with the big caveat that it won't take and display NMEA inputs or a bluetooth knot meter.  



#33 team WINERGY

team WINERGY

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Interests:Sailing. Sex. What else?

Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:29 PM

I understand it gives headers and lifts to the reference heading. But what if you tack? Does it then use ANOTHER reference angle (that you put in in the practice runs)? Or do you need to do that after every tack?



#34 team WINERGY

team WINERGY

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands
  • Interests:Sailing. Sex. What else?

Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:32 PM

wouldn't appear to do anything that the Tactick Micro compass doesn't do - ie gyro compass and countdown, except twice the price.

 

Shame I was hoping they would have put the gyro compass into a prostart, which is what is really needed

Yeah, everybody now has a prostart and a micro (or racemaster). would be nicer if it was all rolled into one....



#35 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,347 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:42 PM

The point was to have something that would be legal across all platforms, which means no GPS.  good news is that the PS and Shift look good stacked up one atop the other.  I assume Alec has a dual-mount somewhere in development or already built?



#36 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:43 PM

I understand it gives headers and lifts to the reference heading. But what if you tack? Does it then use ANOTHER reference angle (that you put in in the practice runs)?

 

Yes, that's exactly how it works.

 

The Shift stores two reference angles, one for port and one for starboard. The device shows lifts and headers relative to the reference angle for the tack you are on.

 

The big blue button on the right side of the Shift is for storing your starboard tack reference angle and the one on the left is for storing your port tack reference angle.

 

You would typically use these buttons to store reference angles for both tacks during your pre-race practice beat but you can also hit either button to reset a reference angle whenever you feel like it.



#37 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,347 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:44 PM

is there some kind of remote



#38 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 05:53 PM

is there some kind of remote

 

There is no remote but the instrument is not something you need to be fiddling with all the time. Just set your two reference angles pre-race (1 button press for each tack) and you're good to go.



#39 DRDNA

DRDNA

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 362 posts
  • Location:Ventucky

Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:01 PM

Being quite a guy, I am willing to trade Velocitek my fine quality Sailcomp 103AC system with junction box, fluxgate sensor, keypad, et al, for their new Shift and a bracket :) Heck, I'd do the same for Clean or Scooter.



#40 maritmesailski

maritmesailski

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 148 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:21 PM

anyone have a solution for mounting this (or the prostart for that matter) on a F18 - within reach - ?



#41 phlegmatic

phlegmatic

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 38 posts
  • Location:Toronto Canada
  • Interests:Match Racing, R-Boat Racing, Boat Building.

Posted 29 October 2013 - 06:47 PM

A remote watch would be very helpful. Especially on a big boat meter style boat where the instrument is at the mast and the tactician is in the back working the runners and chatting with the helmsman. The gyroscrope prevents you from wrist mounting it like you might with a gps unit... 



#42 allen

allen

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,420 posts
  • Location:SF Bay

Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:00 PM

Doesn't a big boat want the GPS features like time to the start line?  This is for one designs that do not allow GPS, right?



#43 Scarecrow

Scarecrow

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,627 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Aus

Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:22 PM

anyone have a solution for mounting this (or the prostart for that matter) on a F18 - within reach - ?


Dont bother with a single screen you won't be able to read it from trapeze unless its mounted on the end of the pole out of reach.

#44 freddy

freddy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 244 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:29 PM

Dear Mr Velocitik man, thanks for replying here....

 

1. Can you put the solid state gyro compass that you are using in a pro start please? Or can you at least start planning to do so.....then one with depth!

2. The tacktick micro compass is only £220 here in UK, so only $350, so yes, half the price of your new piece of kit.....I have never felt there was any issue with the accuracy of the tacktick micro, certainly not compared to trying to use the GPS based compass on the pro start - which can be 30 degrees different to the Tacktick in tidal waters....



#45 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:20 PM

Dear Mr Velocitik man, thanks for replying here....

 

1. Can you put the solid state gyro compass that you are using in a pro start please? Or can you at least start planning to do so.....then one with depth!

2. The tacktick micro compass is only £220 here in UK, so only $350, so yes, half the price of your new piece of kit.....I have never felt there was any issue with the accuracy of the tacktick micro, certainly not compared to trying to use the GPS based compass on the pro start - which can be 30 degrees different to the Tacktick in tidal waters....

 

The GPS compass in the ProStart shows Course Over Ground - the direction your boat is moving. A magnetic compass, like the Shift or the Tackticks, show heading - the direction your boat is pointing. Heading and COG can be very different in areas with lots of current, like the UK. COG will also factor in the leeway of your vessel.

 

In factory default mode, the GPS compass in the ProStart displays heading in degrees true. The Shift, Tackticks, and other magnetic compasses display heading in degrees magnetic. The difference between degrees true and degrees magnetic is magnetic declination. Magnetic declination varies by location. The difference between your ProStart and a magnetic compass should be close to your local magnetic declination.

 

Here's how to enter magnetic declination into a ProStart:

  1. Turn on ProStart
  2. Press and hold RESET button for 5 seconds
  3. Press PIN button (triangle icon) to enter a negative declination or subtract degrees or RC button (square icon) to enter a positive declination or add degrees
  4. Press the GUN button twice to return to Start or Race mode

Here are a couple helpful resources for setting magnetic declination in your ProStart:

 

What is my local magnetic declination?

 

Is my local magnetic declination negative or positive?



#46 jackdaw

jackdaw

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,183 posts
  • Location:Minneapolis, MN USA
  • Interests:The usual stuff.

Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:21 PM

We have both, a ProStart and a TackTick Racemaster. Both are nice products. The ProStart has much better human factors.

 

We like the big digits and speedo on the Prostart. Don't use the Distance to Line much anymore at all. Hate the GPS-based 'compass'

 

We like the actual (fluxgate) compass of the Racemaster, and lift/knock indicator. Don't like the split display on a bigger boat.

 

Like the start timer of both, Prostart easier to set, use, and see, but you loose compass in sequence.

 

 

So net-net, its Velocitek's take on the Racemaster. Nice but not good enough to make me bin the RaceMaster. Could use it alongside the Prostart but then tons of duplicated functionality. I might actually buy a new ProStart plus with the solid state compass built in. As for now, I'll sit this one out. Nice product however if you are starting from scratch.



#47 glowmaster

glowmaster

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 518 posts
  • Location:Cape Cod MA
  • Interests:Trimarans, Windsurfing, SUP.
    The ultimate trifecta.

Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:23 PM

Nice Job Alec, et al.  I want one.  

 

ed sinofsky.



#48 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:29 PM

anyone have a solution for mounting this (or the prostart for that matter) on a F18 - within reach - ?

 

Here's a simple rotating bracket someone made for the tornado: http://www.velocitek...p?showtopic=503

 

A bracket like this will work for the ProStart or the SpeedPuck but unfortunately not for a magnetic compass like the Shift. A magnetic compass, needs to stay lined up with the axis of the boat.



#49 Streetwise

Streetwise

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 895 posts
  • Location:Lake Champlain, Vermont, USA
  • Interests:Viper 640 #18

Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:30 PM

This looks really good. I love my ProStart, and I would consider adding the Shift.

 

However, mounting is still an issue on my Viper 640 and other sportboats. I currently use a TackTick dual instrument mount, with one RaceMaster bracket plate with some custom screw holes to attach my ProStart bracket below my RaceMaster. It works fine but is heavier than needed and not optimized.

 

I would love to see Velocitek come up with a dual instrument bracket/mount that I can put around my Viper mast and secure with a couple of velcro loops. It would need to be offset from the mast for gnav, cunningham, and spin halyard to run cleanly.

 

Actually, I also have a custom carbon dual instrument bracket that I could drill holes in, but I haven't gotten around to it. I would be happy to buy a purpose built solution from Velocitek.

 

Cheers,

 

jason



#50 JRC808

JRC808

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 205 posts
  • Location:Oside

Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:37 PM

New product is aimed towards classes that don't allow GPS and sailors who are mathematically challenged . Lol

#51 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:48 PM

New product is aimed towards classes that don't allow GPS and sailors who are mathematically challenged . Lol

:D Even if you're good at math it's nice to be able to offload low-level arithmetic and memorization tasks to a machine so you can focus on more important things like boatspeed, tactics, sail trim, rig tune, etc...

 

Having fewer things to keep in your head also makes it easier to play chess and think a few steps ahead of the competition.



#52 iqcraig

iqcraig

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 324 posts
  • Location:Portsmouth, NH

Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:55 PM

V-tek: Looks very nice. Congratulations on providing some real competition to the Tactick Micro and Racemaster. The replaceable battery is a huge bonus relative to those devices.

 

I think the legalizer label is a bit of a literal band-aid. Why not put a switch inside the battery compartment that disables the shift feature? This would be much more difficult for someone to do on the water if one was trying to be dishonest.

 

Also, can you explain why the cost is so high relative to the Pro Start? Seems like without a GPS this would be lower material cost.

 

Thanks for your time.



#53 C Dub

C Dub

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 109 posts
  • Location:From the OC

Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:08 PM

Oh damm, that is dead sexy!

 

Happened to be up with insomia at 3am SoCal time, and dropped an order on Mauri Pro. Can't wait till it arrives.

 

I'm very glad I kept5 my brand-new-in-box Tacktick, in the box. Already shipped it back to Mauri for a refund.

 

Would have liked a lower price point.

 

I also have a Prostart -  do you guys have an equally sexy bracket optimized for the mast of a Viper 640?

 

Thanks Velocitek!



#54 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:41 PM

Oh damm, that is dead sexy!

 

Happened to be up with insomia at 3am SoCal time, and dropped an order on Mauri Pro. Can't wait till it arrives.

 

I'm very glad I kept5 my brand-new-in-box Tacktick, in the box. Already shipped it back to Mauri for a refund.

 

Would have liked a lower price point.

 

I also have a Prostart -  do you guys have an equally sexy bracket optimized for the mast of a Viper 640?

 

Thanks Velocitek!

 

Thanks!

 

I think the best solution for a Viper is to screw the offset bracket (see http://www.velocitek...essories#offset) directly to the mast with self-tapping screws. This will give you a solid connection to the rig and keep the Shift at a constant orientation relative to your boat.

 

The little holes you make should not be a big deal compared to the halyard exits, etc...



#55 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:12 AM

V-tek: Looks very nice. Congratulations on providing some real competition to the Tactick Micro and Racemaster. The replaceable battery is a huge bonus relative to those devices.

 

I think the legalizer label is a bit of a literal band-aid. Why not put a switch inside the battery compartment that disables the shift feature? This would be much more difficult for someone to do on the water if one was trying to be dishonest.

 

Also, can you explain why the cost is so high relative to the Pro Start? Seems like without a GPS this would be lower material cost.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Thanks for your post. I'm glad you think it looks nice!
 
The legalizer label was the most simple, easy to explain solution we could think of for disabling shift tracking. Our focus in choosing this solution was less on the Shift owner and more on pacifying the other people in the Shift owner's fleet who might be uncomfortable with electronics to begin with. Our hope is that the simplicity and high-visibility of the label will make it uncontroversial, even in fleets that are very unenthusiastic about technology.
 
The higher cost relative to the ProStart is the result of several different factors:
 
Expensive components the ProStart has that the Shift does not:

  • GPS chip

Expensive components the Shift has that the ProStart does not:

  • 3-axis accelerometer
  • 3-axis gyroscope
  • 3-axis magnetometer
  • 900 mAh lithium polymer battery
  • backlit LCD
  • solar panel
  • cast acrylic lens (for better compatibility with polarized sunglasses)


#56 ChiGuy

ChiGuy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,434 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:38 AM

Being quite a guy, I am willing to trade Velocitek my fine quality Sailcomp 103AC system with junction box, fluxgate sensor, keypad, et al, for their new Shift and a bracket :) Heck, I'd do the same for Clean or Scooter.

Well, if you'd like to donate your old falling apart 103AC display to a poor sailor, let me know ;)



#57 FromTheRail

FromTheRail

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Location:Perth, WA

Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:56 AM

is there some kind of remote

 


Exactly what I was thinking.



#58 Streetwise

Streetwise

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 895 posts
  • Location:Lake Champlain, Vermont, USA
  • Interests:Viper 640 #18

Posted 30 October 2013 - 01:31 AM

I also have a Prostart -  do you guys have an equally sexy bracket optimized for the mast of a Viper 640?

 

I'm not drilling for a bracket on my mast. I've had my instruments get bumped around too many times.

 

Find Luke Porter on the Viper 640 forum and order a carbon bracket from him. You'll have to drill your own mounting holes and might need the bulkhead standoffs or the low-profile bracket for the Shift. I'm finally going to put mine to use if I get a Shift. It was a little narrow for my RaceMaster, but will fit the ProStart and Shift together.

 

http://forum.viper64...hp?topic=1310.0



#59 C Dub

C Dub

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 109 posts
  • Location:From the OC

Posted 30 October 2013 - 01:59 AM

Oh yeah, I bought me one of those brackets, gonna dig it out of the boxes in the back of my boat-truck.

 

Hhmm, looks like I'll need those stand off doo-dads. Time to email the boys at Mauri!

 

 

I also have a Prostart -  do you guys have an equally sexy bracket optimized for the mast of a Viper 640?

 

I'm not drilling for a bracket on my mast. I've had my instruments get bumped around too many times.

 

Find Luke Porter on the Viper 640 forum and order a carbon bracket from him. You'll have to drill your own mounting holes and might need the bulkhead standoffs or the low-profile bracket for the Shift. I'm finally going to put mine to use if I get a Shift. It was a little narrow for my RaceMaster, but will fit the ProStart and Shift together.

 

http://forum.viper64...hp?topic=1310.0



#60 jackdaw

jackdaw

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,183 posts
  • Location:Minneapolis, MN USA
  • Interests:The usual stuff.

Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:09 AM

Mr Vtek,

 

Can you make a version of the SW for the ProStart that disables the GPS compass display? If a guy want to run both units, having the two sets of (different) heading/course numbers can be distracting. Maybe find something ELSE to display????



#61 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:31 AM

That's an interesting idea but, to be honest, we're not super keen to change how the ProStart works. From a technical support perspective, it's really nice that all ProStarts work the same way and everybody understands how they work.

 

Also, there is actually some value in being able to see heading and COG at the same time. 

 

Here's a quote from Tim Healy of North Sails One Design (2 x J/24 World Champion) on how he uses the Shift together with the ProStart on a J/70:

 

"In the J/70 we can use the Shift with the ProStart which gives you Course Over Ground, which is a nice comparison to have in a place with a lot of current. You can see your heading and course with current and when you cross a current line and it changes drastically you know what direction the current is going. It helps you a lot."

 

To do this you need the local magnetic declination set on your ProStart (see http://forums.sailin...53#entry4368130).



#62 Ben G

Ben G

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 89 posts
  • Location:Brisbane
  • Interests:12' skiffs

Posted 30 October 2013 - 06:43 AM

This basically means the display can't be seen from trapeze.  It's a big problem with the speedpuck (I have made a mould for a rotating mount, so I can see it before I buy one)  and an obvious benefit of the tacktic which has a display on each side. 

 

One idea I had was to screw a speedpuck to a bracket in front of a gopro.. for after race viewing :-/

 

anyone have a solution for mounting this (or the prostart for that matter) on a F18 - within reach - ?

 

Here's a simple rotating bracket someone made for the tornado: http://www.velocitek...p?showtopic=503

 

A bracket like this will work for the ProStart or the SpeedPuck but unfortunately not for a magnetic compass like the Shift. A magnetic compass, needs to stay lined up with the axis of the boat.



#63 Rushman

Rushman

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 242 posts
  • Location:Was Auckland, now in Canberra

Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:45 AM

Wireless display/control module to be mounted on a movable bracket or forearm might be a solution.

#64 bgulari

bgulari

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,644 posts
  • Location:Detroit on the river

Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:40 PM

Everyone who has ever looked at a tactic and watched it bounce when you are going straight needs to give this thing a try, total game changer



#65 maritmesailski

maritmesailski

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 148 posts

Posted 30 October 2013 - 01:15 PM

On our F18, similar when we had a tornado, we mount our puck ahead of the forestay but before the the entrance to the snuffer (with a small bungie from the top of the forestay chainplate, over the top of the mount, to the spin pole to block spin sheets from wrapping the mount).  This is almost far enough forward to be seen by the crew from the trap, if not wearing polarized glasses.

 

Now, since GPS is not allowed in the F18 class... we have been playing with the dual display tactic... much better solution... for us.  Would love to have a prostart mounted on each side of the boom... but $$$$ 

 

 

This basically means the display can't be seen from trapeze.  It's a big problem with the speedpuck (I have made a mould for a rotating mount, so I can see it before I buy one)  and an obvious benefit of the tacktic which has a display on each side. 

 

One idea I had was to screw a speedpuck to a bracket in front of a gopro.. for after race viewing :-/

 

 

anyone have a solution for mounting this (or the prostart for that matter) on a F18 - within reach - ?

 

Here's a simple rotating bracket someone made for the tornado: http://www.velocitek...p?showtopic=503

 

A bracket like this will work for the ProStart or the SpeedPuck but unfortunately not for a magnetic compass like the Shift. A magnetic compass, needs to stay lined up with the axis of the boat.



#66 jackdaw

jackdaw

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,183 posts
  • Location:Minneapolis, MN USA
  • Interests:The usual stuff.

Posted 30 October 2013 - 03:07 PM

That's an interesting idea but, to be honest, we're not super keen to change how the ProStart works. From a technical support perspective, it's really nice that all ProStarts work the same way and everybody understands how they work.

 

Also, there is actually some value in being able to see heading and COG at the same time. 

 

Here's a quote from Tim Healy of North Sails One Design (2 x J/24 World Champion) on how he uses the Shift together with the ProStart on a J/70:

 

"In the J/70 we can use the Shift with the ProStart which gives you Course Over Ground, which is a nice comparison to have in a place with a lot of current. You can see your heading and course with current and when you cross a current line and it changes drastically you know what direction the current is going. It helps you a lot."

 

To do this you need the local magnetic declination set on your ProStart (see http://forums.sailin...53#entry4368130).

 

I get that for sure. Less help on inland lakes and low current/tide areas, where the 3-5 degree difference is leeway and pretty much always there.

 

The separate SW version would be more work to support I agree, but would give people (like me) that own a ProStart a reason to get off the fence. As it is, both units supply a) Compass, B) timer c) wind-shift (OK the PS is crap at this). Convert the bottom line of the PS to say, speed trends over time, and I would feel less silly buying another expensive box from you that totally replicates the functionality of the last expensive box I bought from you. Everyone wins!



#67 Presuming Ed

Presuming Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,968 posts
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 30 October 2013 - 03:28 PM

Wasn't it Wallace Simpson who said you could never be too rich or have too many expensive electronic boxes?

#68 tweisleder

tweisleder

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 170 posts
  • Location:Richmond, VA

Posted 30 October 2013 - 03:59 PM

i like the size of the digits compared to the $800 Racemaster.  It seems to do everything the Racemaster does but better, with the big caveat that it won't take and display NMEA inputs or a bluetooth knot meter.  

 

and that is the big issue for us in replacing our race master with this.  Alan are we sure it doesnt have that?



#69 scowlover

scowlover

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 569 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 30 October 2013 - 06:20 PM

Last night, I was having a discussion at the dinner table. We really like the idea of a more stable course heading. We also like the gyro/accelerometer combo. Clearly you have spoiled me with your tech to the point that I want a Prostart with the Shift compass built in for bearing and shift info. I'd pay a pretty penny for that device. The sensor suite has to be able to calculate swing rates on the starting line which would allow for a better distance to line tool. Can I have it by summer?



#70 C Dub

C Dub

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 109 posts
  • Location:From the OC

Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:05 PM

Last night, I was having a discussion at the dinner table. We really like the idea of a more stable course heading. We also like the gyro/accelerometer combo. Clearly you have spoiled me with your tech to the point that I want a Prostart with the Shift compass built in for bearing and shift info. I'd pay a pretty penny for that device. The sensor suite has to be able to calculate swing rates on the starting line which would allow for a better distance to line tool. Can I have it by summer?

 

scowlover makes a lot of sense here. I would prefer one well-designed and integrated box.

 

I'd also like my brand-new Prostart to not have issues with polarized sunglasess. At least I'll be able to read the shift wearing them.

 

When will you be revising the Prostart to have the better glass/plastic, like the Shift?



#71 Fretz

Fretz

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 473 posts

Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:47 AM

After sailing with the sc1 and then the pro start for a few years the sunglass thing is what it is.  The features of the prostart far out weigh how ridiculous my $5 non polarized shades look.  Tell tails, compass, tell tails, speed, repeat.  Thats my day.  I kind of like the fact that I'm the only one who can see the distance to line function when it really matters too.  The crew can wear the fancy glasses as they look up the course. 

 

Im excited for the shift that i just ordered.  If it is half the improvement that the prostart was over the SC1 I'll be a happy guy.  The team at velocitek is on the right path and look forward to whatever they come up with next. 

 

How about a handheld radio that lasts more than two seasons or trailer lights that are working when you leave a regatta!

 

Fretz



#72 evenflow

evenflow

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 129 posts
  • Location:Toronto
  • Interests:Sailing

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:24 AM

I'd rather have a RockBox Blue for the $699.. http://www.rockboxsa...blue/functions/

 

I am using a Tacktick RM and original RockBox... probably get those used for the same pile of cash... more functional.

 

Of course it would be nice to see these ANY of these units get NMEA functionality.



#73 gjbike

gjbike

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 78 posts
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:golf, photography,sailing

Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:35 AM

How does the Shift handle a persistent shift compared to the ProStart? Am I correct in thinking that the PS software automatically re-calculates the mean wind direction over time and thereby the new lifts/headers whereas the Shift depends on the operator setting a new mean wind direction? Does the Shift automatically change to downwind mode?



#74 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:09 AM

How does the Shift handle a persistent shift compared to the ProStart? Am I correct in thinking that the PS software automatically re-calculates the mean wind direction over time and thereby the lifts/headers whereas the Shift depends on the operator setting a new mean wind direction? Does the Shift automatically change to downwind mode?

 
The reference angle on the ProStart automatically resets every time you tack. When you start sailing in a straight line on the new tack, it locks on to the heading of this straight line and uses is it as the reference angle. Unfortunately, in practice, this doesn't work as well as we had hoped. This is mostly because the automatic process is not transparent to the user. Without knowing exactly what the ProStart is using as a reference angle, it's hard to put your full confidence in the shift indicator.
 
With the Shift, you get to decide the reference angle and you can reset it whenever you want. The reference angle for the tack you are on is also displayed at the bottom of the screen so you always know exactly what the shift indicator is calculating.
 
The Shift stores two separate reference headings for port and starboard (set with buttons on the left and right side of the device). This allows the Shift to remember reference angles from tack to tack and from one upwind leg to another. This can be a big help immediately after you round the leeward mark.
 
Here's a clip of Anthony Kotoun (Melges 32 World Champion) explaining how the stored reference angles can help after a mark rounding:
 


#75 gjbike

gjbike

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 78 posts
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:golf, photography,sailing

Posted 31 October 2013 - 11:21 AM

To take advantage of wind shifts you would want to tack whenever you are above or below a MEAN wind direction,  A typical wind shift  pattern would be say oscillations of 15 degrees every 8 minutes. Besides the ongoing shifts  you would also get gusts/lulls periodically. So on this typical hypothetical  upwind starboard tack if I started at the headed point and sailed as the wind slowly shifted to a lift over 8 minutes my heading would go from say 245  degrees to 260. If I experienced a 30 second gust near the end this run I might get an additional 5 degrees lift to make my heading 265. Depending on when I decided to press the starboard reference angle button I could set the reference angle for the  mean direction to anywhere between 245 to 265. In this scenario the mean wind direction is found when my heading is 252. I would benefit from tacking only when my heading was say 5 to 8 degrees above or below that. OTOH if I had pressed the button at the very beginning  or the very end of this run I would be told I was being headed/lifted by 8 degrees when I was actually at the mean. Without wind instruments to provide the true wind direction over time wouldn't I have to sail on a tack long enough while watching the heading to determine when I was actually at the mean before pressing the button?



#76 jackdaw

jackdaw

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,183 posts
  • Location:Minneapolis, MN USA
  • Interests:The usual stuff.

Posted 31 October 2013 - 01:37 PM

To take advantage of wind shifts you would want to tack whenever you are above or below a MEAN wind direction,  A typical wind shift  pattern would be say oscillations of 15 degrees every 8 minutes. Besides the ongoing shifts  you would also get gusts/lulls periodically. So on this typical hypothetical  upwind starboard tack if I started at the headed point and sailed as the wind slowly shifted to a lift over 8 minutes my heading would go from say 245  degrees to 260. If I experienced a 30 second gust near the end this run I might get an additional 5 degrees lift to make my heading 265. Depending on when I decided to press the starboard reference angle button I could set the reference angle for the  mean direction to anywhere between 245 to 265. In this scenario the mean wind direction is found when my heading is 252. I would benefit from tacking only when my heading was say 5 to 8 degrees above or below that. OTOH if I had pressed the button at the very beginning  or the very end of this run I would be told I was being headed/lifted by 8 degrees when I was actually at the mean. Without wind instruments to provide the true wind direction over time wouldn't I have to sail on a tack long enough while watching the heading to determine when I was actually at the mean before pressing the button?

 

This is why you still have to be great to win.

 

The thing's cool, but its not Bora in a box.



#77 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,347 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:09 PM

i like the size of the digits compared to the $800 Racemaster.  It seems to do everything the Racemaster does but better, with the big caveat that it won't take and display NMEA inputs or a bluetooth knot meter.  

 

and that is the big issue for us in replacing our race master with this.  Alan are we sure it doesnt have that?

we are.



#78 svein99

svein99

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 28 posts

Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:58 PM

Nice unit, but no (announced) I/O capability. If you have both the Pro and the Shift you have a $1300 combo who's only logging capability is track info in the Pro. It would have been nice to see the Pro software enable the USB interface to output NMEA and then a similar interface for the Shift. Combining the data streams from the two would have been awesome.

 

I understand the reasons for placing Pro and Shift buttons where they are, but it precludes flush mounting in common cradles.



#79 stormtrooper

stormtrooper

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 62 posts
  • Location:Sydney AUS

Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:50 AM

I used the shift when sailing on my parents 27ft cruising boat on monday afternoon for a twilight sail and it was very nice to have a simple compass with the reference heading feature that was easy to use while also enjoying talking to other people on the boat.

we were able to sail past bigger and much faster boats upwind using the shifts features and when the light was a bit low we even used the light feature. I look forward to using the shift on the cruising boat and also smaller dinghies in the future!



#80 gjbike

gjbike

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 78 posts
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:golf, photography,sailing

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:21 PM

Sounds like you were on a nice leisure sail. If I am not racing wind shifts are of no concern and I am not constantly adjusting sail trim for speed. if  I want to go fast I simply sail on beam reaches where wind shifts and sail trim are not critical. . If I'm not racing I don't pay much  attention to the speed of other boats. Tacking in phase with wind shifts doesn't make you sail faster-it only gets you to a waypoint sooner than you would if you didn't because you are sailing a shorter distance.   



#81 scowlover

scowlover

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 569 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:11 PM

I used a shift at a regatta in mid-November. I have to say, it is TREMENDOUSLY better than a tacktick. The headings are fast and accurate. If you truly sail a small boat by compass headings (IE big or unfamiliar water) and you lock into the numbers, this is a completely better experience. I sail mostly on small lakes, but for those times that I am on big water, I will certainly use both my prostart and shift. Specifically, big lifts, headers, tacks, and gybes get faster (seems like instant) bearings. With a tacktick, it took 5-10 seconds for the bearing to "settle," taking time away from a proper focus on other items in the boat. The shift makes a positive change in my thought process while racing in bigger water. I lets me focus on the boat more while having confidence in my numbers which will add up to better results. My only complaint was that the regatta had one day of exceptionally shifty conditions. We were often going off the top of the scale with the visual shift indicator on both tacks during some lifts. For the record, boats with Shift on board won 5 of the 6 races at the regatta (MC Scow South East Regional). 



#82 DFL1010

DFL1010

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 151 posts
  • Location:Falmouth, UK

Posted 12 December 2013 - 04:59 PM

It was asked earlier, but not answered. Is there an easy way to identify what the 'reference standard' heading is? Is it just a case of monitoring the course on the practice beat and doing an average or is there an obvious way that I'm missing?



. For the record, boats with Shift on board won 5 of the 6 races at the regatta (MC Scow South East Regional). 

]Attached File  image.jpg   33.61K   10 downloads

#83 Streetwise

Streetwise

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 895 posts
  • Location:Lake Champlain, Vermont, USA
  • Interests:Viper 640 #18

Posted 12 December 2013 - 05:23 PM

It is whatever angle you capture by pressing the button for starboard tack or port tack, typically something you would do before starting, when in clean air. Then you as you sail, you can memorize your relative plus and minus range for each tack. You could choose to capture a new reference angle if you think you have figured out what the middle of your oscillation range is and press the button when you get there. Or you could choose a new reference if you've been living with a big shift that you don't expect to swing back.

 

For me, with any of these devices, it is much easier to track in my head that we are cycling from -6 to +10 on starboard and +2 to +18 on port and then adjust from there, rather than memorize four to six absolute angles. If we weren't too busy, I might have us reset starboard at +2 and reset port at +10, but if not, its no big deal. When I tack or gybe I want to compare to the last time I was on that tack or gybe.

 

jason



#84 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 05:41 PM

It was asked earlier, but not answered. Is there an easy way to identify what the 'reference standard' heading is? Is it just a case of monitoring the course on the practice beat and doing an average or is there an obvious way that I'm missing?


 

. For the record, boats with Shift on board won 5 of the 6 races at the regatta (MC Scow South East Regional). 

]attachicon.gifimage.jpg

 

Hi DFL,

 

The port and starboard reference angles are displayed on the Shift when you are sailing within 25° of a stored reference angle.

 

In this example, you are sailing a heading of 311° on starboard tack on an 11° lift from a starboard reference angle of 300°:

Attached Files



#85 gjbike

gjbike

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 78 posts
  • Location:Texas
  • Interests:golf, photography,sailing

Posted 12 December 2013 - 06:13 PM

Here is my take on the Shift based on what I know about it ( I don't own one)

There are two ways you could use it.

1.  Luff at the line. If the heading is within a couple of degrees of the stated mean per committee boat, then sail for a minute close hauled of each tack and press the button each way. You will have now  "told" the Shift to use that reading as the mean and it will then tell you how much and in which direction you are shifted from that reading. This will work well IF a) the mean wind direction stays constant for that race and B) there is no persistent shift in wind direction. Now if when you luff you get a reading very different from the stated mean of the committee boat you will either needed to keep trying until it matches or make some mental calculations as to what your heading needs to be when you press the button. For example if I know that my boat sails at 40 degrees off the wind in 10 kt winds , and the committee number is X then I will sail to a heading 40 degrees above/below X and press the button then.

2.  Keep a running account of my headings as I race and reset the button as needed based on calculations as needed. 

 

The idea that the Shift is a way to get around having to keep track of headings and rely on it solely for wind shift decisions fails to take into account the reality of how wind behaves and how shifts can and CANNOT be used to win races.  There is no way to get around having to keep track of wind direction. That  doesn't even begin to account for VMG and tactics. No doubt the Shift is a very nice compass and when used with knowledge of what it does and doesn't do can make the tedious task constant math calculations much easier.

 

BTW the Tactics system does let you manually set the mean wind direction and turn off the auto mean function



#86 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 06:32 PM

It is whatever angle you capture by pressing the button for starboard tack or port tack, typically something you would do before starting, when in clean air. Then you as you sail, you can memorize your relative plus and minus range for each tack. You could choose to capture a new reference angle if you think you have figured out what the middle of your oscillation range is and press the button when you get there. Or you could choose a new reference if you've been living with a big shift that you don't expect to swing back.

 

For me, with any of these devices, it is much easier to track in my head that we are cycling from -6 to +10 on starboard and +2 to +18 on port and then adjust from there, rather than memorize four to six absolute angles. If we weren't too busy, I might have us reset starboard at +2 and reset port at +10, but if not, its no big deal. When I tack or gybe I want to compare to the last time I was on that tack or gybe.

 

jason

 

Jason, thanks for this perfect, practical summary of how to use the Shift. This is better than our manual!



#87 scowlover

scowlover

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 569 posts
  • Location:Wisconsin

Posted 27 December 2013 - 07:27 PM

It was asked earlier, but not answered. Is there an easy way to identify what the 'reference standard' heading is? Is it just a case of monitoring the course on the practice beat and doing an average or is there an obvious way that I'm missing?


 

. For the record, boats with Shift on board won 5 of the 6 races at the regatta (MC Scow South East Regional). 

]attachicon.gifimage.jpg

Of course the shift didn't cause us to win the races entirely, but it did make it easier to get in the groove on an unfamiliar body of water with very few shoreline references. It also did a better job than Tackticks that we have used extensively. The two boats using the shift were sailed by professional sailors. That said, we both were impressed enough to add them to our collection of tools. 



#88 MidPack

MidPack

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,394 posts
  • Location:undecided

Posted 10 January 2014 - 12:27 AM

Probably a stupid question, but I haven't been able to find the answer (read this thread and online Shift Manual). For the Shift, what happens after rounding for downwind leg? User must enter new P&S gybe reference angles? Or do most users only use the Shift header/lift function upwind.

#89 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 10 January 2014 - 06:53 AM

Hi MidPack,
 
Once you bear away and head outside of 25° from a set reference angle the Shift turns into a simple magnetic compass and the lift/header function turns off. You can reset the reference angles for Port and Starboard jibe angles, but if you store the upwind reference angles you'll be able to use them immediately out of the leeward gate.
 
Here's how Anthony Kotoun uses the Shift to pass boats coming out of the leeward gate: http://youtu.be/o5R1b-tsRcs?t=1m5s



#90 MidPack

MidPack

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,394 posts
  • Location:undecided

Posted 10 January 2014 - 03:47 PM

Hi MidPack,
 
Once you bear away and head outside of 25° from a set reference angle the Shift turns into a simple magnetic compass and the lift/header function turns off. You can reset the reference angles for Port and Starboard jibe angles, but if you store the upwind reference angles you'll be able to use them immediately out of the leeward gate.
 
Here's how Anthony Kotoun uses the Shift to pass boats coming out of the leeward gate: http://youtu.be/o5R1b-tsRcs?t=1m5s

Thank you very much. I noticed that video segment, and thought he was talking downwind (hence the question in part), but I see that he means after rounding the leeward mark. Looks like a great compass plus!



#91 Heiko

Heiko

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 2 posts

Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:35 PM

I was very anxious to see if the new Velocitek Shift is a real innovation. Would there be a significant difference to the TackTick or other compasses? I was using the TackTick Micro over the last 15 years and I had lots of problems with this device but there was no real alternative until now. To make it short: the Shift beats the TackTick in all disciplines: 

I can read the numbers although I´m wearing polarized sunglasses. It´s very easy and intuitive to use. 

But the big difference which impressed me a lot was the precision of the compass itself. I#m sailing a 14ft open keelboat (2.4mR) which is more rodeo on the water than sailing if the waves are taller than 3 ft. So the amplitude of course-changes is very high. Because the damping of the Shift is very low you are for a moment a bit irritated because the compass-bearing is changing a lot in rough choppy waves. A higher damping would reduce this but damping means also less precision. After a wile I got a very good feeling for my "average" course because of the exact highs and lows of the compass-bearing. So after some practice with the Shift I was able to see wind-changes of less than 5 deg. in real choppy waters.

This compass will stay on my boat for my 5th paralympic campaign! 

 

Heiko Kroeger GER

Paralympic medaillist

Attached Files



#92 Morgo

Morgo

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Location:Virgin Islands
  • Interests:Most anything that floats

Posted 08 April 2014 - 03:20 PM

Anyone found a mast mount for both SHIFT and PROSTART? 



#93 rule69

rule69

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,601 posts

Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:19 PM

It sure is good looking kit. But, at that price home brew starts to look tempting: http://www.hobbyking..._mag_gyro_.html



#94 Ball Breaker

Ball Breaker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 247 posts

Posted 03 June 2014 - 01:45 AM

Just bought the Shift.  It came with the battery half charged.  It has been in the sun for a day and a half.  It is still just half way charged.  Any ideas?



#95 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 03 June 2014 - 04:03 PM

Ball Breaker,
 
The Shift battery monitor displays the following:
  • 100% - 75%, Full, two bars
  • 75% - 20%, Half, one bar
  • 20% - 0%, Almost Empty, battery outline
  • 0%, Empty, battery outline flashing
The percentages are determined from battery voltage level.
 
The Shift battery capacity is quite large at roughly 900mAh. It takes 18 hours of sunlight to charge the battery from empty to full. It is also worth mentioning that the solar charging is sensitive to the angle of the sun and filters like widows or windshields.
 
As long as the sun icon appears when the Shift is on and in the sun your Shift is OK. And the solar panel will always charge the battery regardless of the on/off state of the Shift.
 
Best,
 
Charles
 

Charles Swanson
Sales & Support Manager

#96 JBSF

JBSF

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 30,882 posts
  • Interests:Racing, diving, cycling, flying, pussy, shooting and any other action sports.

Posted 04 June 2014 - 09:17 AM

Hi Mr Swanson/Velocitek guy,

 

I'm seriously thinking of making the jump from my Tacktick racemaster to the Prostart and/or the Prostart/Shift combo.  A few questions if you'll pardon the ignorance....

 

My OD sportboat class DOES allow GPS devices and lists the approved instruments in the class rules.  

 

Some background:  We do not deal with much tide here where I sail but there is some and it occasionally is a factor.  We do all short course, W/L racing with few shore-based visual references upwind.  

 

My questions are:

 

1.  With just the prostart, will the GPS-only speed give you false boatspeed readings when there is current (helping or hurting)?  IOW - if you are using target boatspeeds as a rough sail trim performance tool - is the GPS only speed potentially going to give you some bad info?

 

2.  same question as above but with COG-only.  Will the headings lie if the tide changes across the course. IOW, if I'm using the compass function on the Prostart only (no shift) - will that be accurate enough to call wind shifts?  Or is tide going to bias or give false readings?

 

3.  Does the Prostart have a DW VMG function?  If not, do many people use VMG for DW sailing if they have it?  The boat will definitely plane and I've heard VMG is less useful on a plane.  But our winds here unfortunately are predominiately just sub-planning strength.  So would VMG readouts be useful for downwind tactics and finding optimum sailing angles?

 

4.  I know you said above that the Prostart windshift indicator was not as good as the shift since it uses GPS rather than a magnetic compass and you don't know which reference heading its using.  Does that mean that pro sailors who use the prostart-only completely disregard that function?  Or do they use it in combo with other information?

 

5.  Do you make a single bracket that will fit both the ProStart and Shift?

 

The main thing is I'm trying to justify 1) going with the Prostart over the Rockbox and 2) if I do go with the PS, does the additional $700 of the shift give me that much more capability over just the Prostart itself?

 

Thanks for any help.  I'm making a decision in the next week or so, so any info is much appreciated.



#97 couchsurfer

couchsurfer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,167 posts
  • Location:NA westcoast
  • Interests:...pimping HOOTs
    ...i550 NW circuit

Posted 04 June 2014 - 10:00 AM

.

...^^.....mannn,,,I just got to be -very- happy to be a seat-of-pants sailor  :mellow:

 

 

 

 

                              ......'tack NOW' ,,,,indeed  :unsure:



#98 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 04 June 2014 - 01:30 PM

JBSF,

 

1) The ProStart speed is Speed Over Ground and this factors in current (helping and hurting). If you are using target boatspeeds, SOG will be an OK metric in non-tidal waters. However a paddlewheel measuring speed through the water is a better tool for target boatspeeds.

 

2) A magnetic compass like the Shift is a better tool to track wind shifts than a GPS based device like the ProStart. In non-tidal waters you can track shifts using Course Over Ground, but COG also factors in leeway. If your angle of heel increases and your leeway increases, COG based shift tracking will display this as a header.

 

3) No, the ProStart does not try to calculate DW VMG. We used to have a function like that in the SC-1 but we eliminated it for the ProStart. Here's why.

 

4) The ProStart wind shift indicator and COG are more useful when used with a magnetic compass like the Shift to track changes in current.

 

5) Not yet.

 

The Shift pulls its weight. And the ProStart and Shift make a great combo. If you go with the ProStart, adding a Shift is completely worthwhile.

 

Best,

 

Charles



#99 JBSF

JBSF

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 30,882 posts
  • Interests:Racing, diving, cycling, flying, pussy, shooting and any other action sports.

Posted 04 June 2014 - 03:23 PM

JBSF,

 

1) The ProStart speed is Speed Over Ground and this factors in current (helping and hurting). If you are using target boatspeeds, SOG will be an OK metric in non-tidal waters. However a paddlewheel measuring speed through the water is a better tool for target boatspeeds.

 

2) A magnetic compass like the Shift is a better tool to track wind shifts than a GPS based device like the ProStart. In non-tidal waters you can track shifts using Course Over Ground, but COG also factors in leeway. If your angle of heel increases and your leeway increases, COG based shift tracking will display this as a header.

 

3) No, the ProStart does not try to calculate DW VMG. We used to have a function like that in the SC-1 but we eliminated it for the ProStart. Here's why.

 

4) The ProStart wind shift indicator and COG are more useful when used with a magnetic compass like the Shift to track changes in current.

 

5) Not yet.

 

The Shift pulls its weight. And the ProStart and Shift make a great combo. If you go with the ProStart, adding a Shift is completely worthwhile.

 

Best,

 

Charles

 

Charles, thank you!  That all makes sense, especially the VMG part.  I was thinking about using it for training, but I have a Handheld garmin that has VMG and that could potentially be used for that.  I totally get why you wouldn't use it in racing.  I had never considered the momentum aspect before. 

 

Most of the class seems to have gone to the Prostart and are fairing over the older paddlewheel unit in the hull.  I'll have to check around to see if anyone is using the Prostart/shift combo.  

 

Last question..... I know on many handheld GPS units I've used in the past, the compass and speed lagged considerably.  Especially the compass.  On the Prostart (2 hz refresh rate, right), how would you compare the heading and speed display relative to a magnetic compass and a paddle wheel type unit.  


Thanks!



#100 Velocitek

Velocitek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 164 posts

Posted 04 June 2014 - 06:51 PM

JBSF,

 

On the ProStart, the display refresh rate is 2 Hz. The GPS is a 4 Hz position update rate.

 

On the Shift, the display refresh rate is 4 Hz. The solid-state sensors (3-axis magnetometer, 3-axis gyro, and 3-axis accelerometer) are taking measurements in real time. Because the Shift is electronically gimbaled by a gyro and accelerometer, it is able to isolate heading and ignore pitch, roll, and other inertial effects. The Shift has no dampening. As a result you won't notice the delay in your heading associated with other stand alone compasses.

 

Compared to the Shift, the ProStart heading may lag a little. However, the ProStart should be on par (or very close to it) with other compasses and paddlewheel boatspeed units which are usually dampened.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users