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LR in AC35


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#201 Xlot

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 09:05 AM


Oracle has taken a step backwards with their team, losing some of their best people and replacing them with castoffs from ETNZ.


Len Imas and Guppy Youngren castoffs from ETNZ ??!! :D Of course victory (or, in this case, the foiling breakthrough) has many fathers - but I suggest you have a look at their CVs, they are first class. Incidentally, word is it's they who took the initiative because of the long commute to AKL.

#202 STYACHT

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 09:28 AM


1) Botín is a mono rating guy - be it IRC or V5, tuck the transom in a bit here, a hint of a chine there. At ETNZ / AC34, he was shunted to the VOR project, and we know the bitter aftertaste that left

2) For the AC62, we've even left "classic" multi design - epitomized by a VPP, balance of steady state propulsive and resistance forces - and gone (just like F1) to "vehicle dynamics", where what matters is the stability of foiling under transient conditions. As that certain person said, either you've mastered the basics in AC34 or you needn't bother ..
 

I have this to say about the mono guy vs multi guy discussion.  Designing in the Americas Cup environment is very different in terms of what you can imagine, test, and build.  There are so many examples of this, but consider the comments of Paul Bieker "most loaded structures I have ever designed" referring to foils in the 34th.  Designers, even the chief, are a part the team framework and must either do their part (or make choices / set priorities of others work in the case of department heads/chief) rather than be solely responsible for coming up with the next big thing.  AC teams are hierarchies.

 

I don't know Botin at all, but as a designer with a CONSISTENT record and big team experience, he is perfectly well suited to make design decisions.  It is for this reason that I reject direct comparisons to JuanK.  Same reason I reject blaming Botin for Clifford, as if he designed it by himself.  

 

It is important to have enough intrinsic understanding of the "beast" in the team, just as it matters to listen to the sailing team.  But AFAIK none of the design teams have been led, nor will be led, by the noted major players in the multihull field.  In the case of e.g. the 33rd, my own opinion is that the previously mono AC designers (Fresh Burns etc.) chewed up and digested all of what VPLP had to offer in a very short amount of time, and then gave them something else to do. Didn't Pete Melvin coach the sailors from BMWOR?  Long story short: naval architecture in multis is naval architecture first, multihulled second.

 

As for classic multi hull design vs foiling multihull and VPP, if you think that a VPP cannot handle transients at this level, well that is not the case.  Flight simulation is also a force balance, as is a VPP.  In the case of the AC, the solutions will be very customized.



#203 Xlot

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 11:35 AM

^

I don't think our positions are that distant, in principle: the AC certainly is a different design environment, and Max Sirena was telling me how he felt that in the final, hectic months of AC33 VPLP were almost a drag, the deletion of central daggerboard and rudder being practically forced upon them.

But it's also important to have enough intrinsic understanding of the "beast" (see, I keep borrowing your own words): all previously mono AC designers - all, that is, who proved capable/flexible enough not to be weeded out like JuanK - have had at least one Cup cycle (OR's had two) to chew up and digest multi / foiling specifics under the harsh mistress that was the AC72. Even giving Botín the benefit of the doubt in terms of potential, you cannot deny he's a latecomer and will have to play catch-up: something not easy to do when one is No. 1 in the hierarchy, with a lot of primadonnas nominally underneath.

#204 STYACHT

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Posted 13 June 2014 - 12:58 PM

^ To say Botin is unproven in this role is fact.  I won't dispute it.  You began by expressing a chilling feeling which you connected to JuanK.  OK, fair enough.  I don't have that feeling, and perhaps because I don't associate him with JuanK.  I don't know what Botin did in ETNZ for the 34th AC, but at least at the beginning he was listed in that team.  Maybe, just maybe he is not the newbie you think he is.  Time will tell.  LR management won't be compelled to keep him in that role if he proves a detriment.

 

Aside, I do know Martin Fischer and while he is not a great big buddy buddy kind of guy, I think some of the jabs leveled here miss the mark.  In my presence he has been self promoting, but also self deprecating and realistic in describing his good and bad projects, in equal measures.  I know he is bright and works hard - so I think he can fit fine in the team.



#205 Xlot

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 05:41 PM


Don't know how much commercial sense this really makes, but Prada is going through the motions of extracting ROI from its AC venture: plenty of TV ads and even more numerous billboards for the LR perfume line - was driving by so I'm not entirely sure, but I believe I read "Challenger, America's Cup". At least now the boat is the AC72 (silver uniforms not too conspicuous), we no longer see poor Max playing Captains Courageous in a storm with the AC45

#206 ~Stingray~

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 06:33 PM

The support for LR in Napoli was impressive, even before they won that event. Prada must be doing something right.

#207 Xlot

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:02 AM

was driving by so I'm not entirely sure, but I believe I read "Challenger, 34th America's Cup".


Had a closer look, and it's correct - not that most people would know the difference

#208 Xlot

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 06:00 PM

One of LR's AC45s modded as full foiling testbed

http://www.vsail.inf...r-modification/

#209 ~Stingray~

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 06:06 PM

Nice!

#210 STYACHT

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 06:38 PM

big_LunaRossa_Cagliari_14_1256.jpg



#211 floater

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 06:40 PM

Wow. First one to witness flying jibe from AC45 wins.

#212 aldo

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 07:16 PM

Nice,

But it looks like they're still running around in the Umpa Lumpa silver costumes.

They gotta burn those things.



#213 nav

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 07:46 PM

Moaning again Waldo?

 

Good on them - looks like a sweet machine - (note leeward foil tip). More   (_    than   L

Also perfect training conditions, another good call.

 

big_LunaRossa_Cagliari_14_1256.jpg



#214 Sailbydate

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Posted 01 July 2014 - 08:18 PM

Too bad if RC doesn't get his act together and change the AC45 rule, for ACWS. Maybe the surrogates are a better way to go, meantime?



#215 STYACHT

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 02:56 PM

Video



#216 ozchrisb

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 04:56 PM

Well damn that's the most stable 45 we've seen (maybe the current Artemis boat is close)! Tiny wee jib too?



#217 Catatonic

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 05:12 PM

I bet they added weight to the forward king post.

#218 ~Stingray~

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 06:19 PM


I bet they added weight to the forward king post.


Funny. Maybe a little too much? It does seem to ride a bit ass-up, nose-down.

#219 nav

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Posted 02 July 2014 - 07:13 PM

Your momma!



#220 GauchoGreg

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 12:04 AM

Looks pretty.  I would love to hear what these guys have to say about the relative performance of the bigger, winged boat compared to the GC32.  Could anyone tell if Draper was driving?



#221 ~Stingray~

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 01:23 AM

Looks pretty.  I would love to hear what these guys have to say about the relative performance of the bigger, winged boat compared to the GC32.  Could anyone tell if Draper was driving?

Seems Draper was there:
--

@DraperChris: Impressive day for the team yesterday. Straight out the tent everything working and boat ripping. Amazing signs of the things to come #AC35

https://twitter.com/...395051079180288

#222 ~Stingray~

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 07:42 PM

Do we have anything revealing yet showing the LR foiling 45's rudder and foil shapes?

#223 nav

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 07:57 PM

https://www.youtube....gmGR0OIOSA#t=11

 

big_LunaRossa_Piranha_6225.jpg

 

big_LunaRossa_Cagliari_14_1256.jpg

 

luna-rossa-piranha.jpg



#224 ~Stingray~

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 08:01 PM

Thanks, thought maybe I'd missed some.

Hopefully these foilers will go through some fun evolutions that we can follow with interest.

#225 nav

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 12:37 PM

LR in match racing.... http://www.independe...ty-9586320.html

 

It was honours even in both semi-finals of the Stena Match Cup in Marstrand as four-time world match racing champion Ian Williams and his GAC Pindar crew at first taking the lead against Italy’s Francesco Bruni, carrying Luna Rossa America’s Cup colours, but going into the clubhouse, which is a castle, 1-1.

 

etc......



#226 ~Stingray~

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 05:08 PM

Fresh eye candy

https://m.facebook.c...hmAHiYQaoY&_rdr
or
http://media.lunaros...ries/160/photos

#227 aldo

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 06:01 PM

Now I know why everything has to be shiny.

 

 

Attached Files



#228 ~Stingray~

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 06:29 PM

What's also funny is how Carlo B somehow managed to capture a moment when Max had his back to the camera.

#229 nav

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:22 PM

^ WCGrumps

 

big_LunaRossa14cb_04092.jpg

 

big_LunaRossa14cb_01828.jpg

 

big_LunaRossa14cb_01945.jpg

 

big_LunaRossa14cb_00777.jpg



#230 ~Stingray~

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Posted 05 July 2014 - 07:34 PM

Reflections can be so blasé but that last image actually is gorgeous. The parallelism perhaps?

Nice for LR to have Carlo as their team photog.

#231 Xlot

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 08:26 AM

The parallelism perhaps?


Lack thereof, I'd say: the paint scheme makes it very easy to notice platform twist (Clean was right, for once)

#232 ~Stingray~

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 11:24 PM

Fresh upload but what/where?



#233 Terry Hollis

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 11:56 PM

Fresh upload but what/where?

 

Clearly it was SF .. the only place where Luna Rossa had a tent right next to ETNZ ..



#234 Stanuel

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 01:25 AM

Active foils? 



#235 maxmini

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 01:55 AM

Fresh upload but what/where?


So it was 9 or 10 months ago based on the tents in the photos ?

#236 ~Stingray~

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 02:43 AM

Yes, think you're right Max and Terry. Thanks for taking a close gander, not many people on the planet could come up with that. :)

SF's P32, just about 12 months back, almost an anniversary.

#237 ~Stingray~

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 03:15 PM

Gtran from German of a recent Bruni interview

 

https://translate.go...elt/&edit-text=



#238 ~Stingray~

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 10:42 PM

At
http://www.americasc...peed-ahead.html

"Our aim is to win the Americas Cup," Sirena says with conviction. "To do that, we will have to give our very best from the first day to the last day of the campaign. The main racing this time does not start until 2017, but if we are going to win in three years, we have to start with what we are doing right now."

#239 ~Stingray~

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:12 PM

Newspaper article from Cagliari, gtran
https://translate.go...-hw_TaILsloA9Xg

#240 nav

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 05:14 PM

http://video.gazzett...a6-cf5b1792dbde

 

^ in case the video on that page wasn't working for you either

 

foiling flat, staying with three foils for now



#241 Barnyb

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:19 PM

 

 

 

Luna Rossa in allenamento a Cagliari

#242 ~Stingray~

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:49 PM

The same LR video was posted some time back. It's not fresh but is still cool, and the article and quotes are both.

As new CoR, I bet they press for Foiling 45's only from now on.

#243 ~Stingray~

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:17 PM

neat enough tweet
--

@DraperChris: You know you've been spending a lot of time foiling when you get in your car and it feels weird that it's touching the ground #AC35

#244 Xlot

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:28 PM

OK, There's this long (over 10') interview with Max Sirena on

http://ventoevele.gazzetta.it/

Too much for me to summarize, but the gist is the recent U-turn is confirmed: emphasis on cooperation with other challengers and defender, let's be positive, non-ISAF jury may be good because of instant rulings, the charm/peculiaity of the AC is the defender writes the Prot and challengers have to overcome this, he doesn't think the Prot will see/need substantial changes, who the next CoR is will be known in the next few weeks based on priority - should it be LR, they will fulfill the duty responsibly, he believes LR is gaining a significant advantage by having resumed activities very early.

Again: not a single word of criticism vs. OR, no mention of venue(s), oh and he wishes the Italian Press went along instead of having a polemic attitude .. (hint, hint to those looking for access ..)

#245 dogwatch

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 01:22 PM

Nothing like a blast of Shaun Ryder WFL on a not-so-happy Monday.

 

I've been trained

I can sit and stand

Beg and roll over

 

You used to speak the truth

But now you're clever



#246 PeterHuston

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 01:24 PM

OK, There's this long (over 10') interview with Max Sirena on

http://ventoevele.gazzetta.it/

Too much for me to summarize, but the gist is the recent U-turn is confirmed: emphasis on cooperation with other challengers and defender, let's be positive, non-ISAF jury may be good because of instant rulings, the charm/peculiaity of the AC is the defender writes the Prot and challengers have to overcome this, he doesn't think the Prot will see/need substantial changes, who the next CoR is will be known in the next few weeks based on priority - should it be LR, they will fulfill the duty responsibly, he believes LR is gaining a significant advantage by having resumed activities very early.

Again: not a single word of criticism vs. OR, no mention of venue(s), oh and he wishes the Italian Press went along instead of having a polemic attitude .. (hint, hint to those looking for access ..)

 

 

The funniest part about this will be if LR does become CoR and they support the non-ISAF jury given the relationship between Bertelli/Prada and Croce.  What's the President of ISAF going to do then?  Oh wait, he's also the President of the Italian MNA who has Prada as a primary sponsor. Croce would then either have to have the ISAF Executive to come down hard on all the AC clubs, teams and sailor, or if not, he'll just prove that he's owned by Bertelli.



#247 ~Stingray~

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:17 PM

OK, There's this long (over 10') interview with Max Sirena on

http://ventoevele.gazzetta.it/

Too much for me to summarize, but the gist is the recent U-turn is confirmed: emphasis on cooperation with other challengers and defender, let's be positive, non-ISAF jury may be good because of instant rulings, the charm/peculiaity of the AC is the defender writes the Prot and challengers have to overcome this, he doesn't think the Prot will see/need substantial changes, who the next CoR is will be known in the next few weeks based on priority - should it be LR, they will fulfill the duty responsibly, he believes LR is gaining a significant advantage by having resumed activities very early.

Again: not a single word of criticism vs. OR, no mention of venue(s), oh and he wishes the Italian Press went along instead of having a polemic attitude .. (hint, hint to those looking for access ..)

 

There are some quotes in this Italian page: http://www.gazzetta....038713984.shtml

 

From this rough g-tran: https://translate.go...038713984.shtml

 

The event itself is to what extent? 
"We are in a fairly advanced state. We started working the day after the end of last year and now we're really happy with how things are going.Understanding the Cup as an event, however, we should not hide that is not doing well, is in a stalemate and we're working to try to give it some 'credibility, because I think it remains one of the most spectacular events, especially after the last final of San Francisco in September 2013. Personally, I'm trying to push to create a round table where you put stakes to restore credibility to the Cup, but also to sailing in general. There is no doubt that the America's Cup is something that generates a trend: all the boats in the world today want to fly. He then each team try to help the defender Oracle to revive the event. And from the meetings (the last I've seen in the last few rounds), the tone is purposeful. "

 

cntd



#248 Xlot

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:19 PM

^

Good find. To me, the striking part is this one:

In 2013 Luna Rossa created much controversy to the Americans, in this Cup it has changed its attitude.
"There are different phases. I do not think now is the time to criticize only, you must also be constructive, you must find a starting point to try to build, otherwise negativity prevails and that leads nowhere. As I do not think the solution is to retire: who does so has already lost"

#249 nav

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:43 PM

Be negative, be constructive, retire......and how does he feel about being denied a chance to participate in discussions and express an informed opinion at all?

 

No comment?



#250 Sailbydate

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:46 PM

Be negative, be constructive, retire......and how does he feel about being denied a chance to participate in discussions and express an informed opinion at all?

 

No comment?

But being negative, in this 'new age of co-operation' has no place, surely?  :ph34r:

 

Not only are the Euros expecting to suck it - they are acquiring a taste for it as well. Good luck with that.



#251 aldo

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:16 PM

Willingly sucking  it?

 

That reminds me, where the heck is Grumpy?



#252 dogwatch

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:00 AM

Be negative, be constructive, retire......and how does he feel about being denied a chance to participate in discussions and express an informed opinion at all?

 

No comment?

But being negative, in this 'new age of co-operation' has no place, surely?  :ph34r:

 

Not only are the Euros expecting to suck it - they are acquiring a taste for it as well. Good luck with that.

 

Bah humbug. We haven't seen much straight talk from Dalton on the protocol either. He's in exactly the same position right now. Can't scare off the sponsors.



#253 ~Stingray~

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 12:35 PM

Tweeted
--
@lunarossa: Open Day: on August 28th the first 1.000 people who sign up can visit Luna Rossa base in Cagliari. The registration form online tomorrow.

#254 ~Stingray~

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 05:12 PM

^ more on that, gtran: https://translate.go...9572&edit-text=



#255 Barnyb

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 08:06 PM

Luna Rossa Challenge
Luna Rossa Open Day: aprono domani le iscrizioni sul sito http://www.lunarossachallenge.com.
Il 28 agosto i primi 1000 iscritti potranno visitare la base di Luna Rossa a Cagliari.
 
Luna Rossa Open Day: the registration form will be online tomorrow on http://www.lunarossachallenge.com. On August 28th the first 1.000 people who sign up can visit Luna Rossa base in Cagliari.
 
 

Attached Files



#256 Barnyb

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 12:40 PM

At less than one hour from the on line publication of the registration form 1.000 people registered and reached the total number of entries allowed for logistic and security reasons.
Luna Rossa wishes to thank everyone for the enthusiasm and affection of its fans!
No translation available
 
 
 
 
 
Seems very popular - maybe they should make all teams nationality based.
 
 


#257 Foredeck Shuffle

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 07:06 PM

Disappointed by the thread title, I was expecting Lesbian Robot to be on here.


Ditto. Twas the only reason I wandered into what is the back isle separated by a bead curtain section of SA. Just as frightening. Bunch of dudes masterbating about the AC.

#258 ~Stingray~

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 09:42 PM


Luna Rossa Challenge
Luna Rossa Open Day: aprono domani le iscrizioni sul sito http://www.lunarossachallenge.com.
Il 28 agosto i primi 1000 iscritti potranno visitare la base di Luna Rossa a Cagliari.
 
Luna Rossa Open Day: the registration form will be online tomorrow on http://www.lunarossachallenge.com. On August 28th the first 1.000 people who sign up can visit Luna Rossa base in Cagliari.
 
 
http://www.lunarossachallenge.com/

from this g-tran: https://translate.go...qKgX-xUWad1LInQ
--
However, those who do not have it done to register do not despair: there is in fact another chance. The doors of the headquarters in the port of Cagliari, where the team is preparing the next edition of the America's Cup, will reopen on October 15. "Luna Rossa - says the team's official website - thank you all for your enthusiasm and affection shown."

#259 dogwatch

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Posted 08 August 2014 - 04:46 AM

Disappointed by the thread title, I was expecting Lesbian Robot to be on here.


Ditto. Twas the only reason I wandered into what is the back isle separated by a bead curtain section of SA. Just as frightening. Bunch of dudes masterbating about the AC.

 

Frightening? Two guys in pursuit of someone who left SA years ago is frightening.



#260 abcd1234

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 10:21 AM

Anyone know of any webcams near the LR base?



#261 Alinghi4ever

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 05:28 PM

I'm guessing that Luna Rossa will officially present/announce their Challenge for the 35th AC August 28th at the Team Base in Cagliari.



#262 HFC Hunter

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 04:03 PM

The support for LR in Napoli was impressive, even before they won that event. Prada must be doing something right.


And now shown by an awesome uptake of backstage passes. Can anyone with a golden ticket out there take a helmetcam through there for us?

@Stingray: they sail pretty good, clearly represent, and bring the style and class I wish was more prevalent to these rumbles. Makes me much keener to own a pair of red shoes than a pair of oracles. If there is a high-road to the AC, they're on it.

#263 bgulari

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:04 AM

The shady looking guys are on security detail to prevent cameras

#264 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 06:33 PM

A pic posted today at LR

 

 

 

big_IMG_6338.jpg

 

http://www.lunarossa...heir-enthusiasm



#265 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 07:36 PM

A brief news article
http://www.ansa.it/e...711a76482b.html

#266 Barnyb

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 08:07 PM

The Luna Rossa team thanks all participants of Open Day for your interest and enthusiasm!

The next Open Day will take place on 15 October; the form for submissions will be published on October 1 on the site 
http://www.lunarossachallenge.com/ (Translated by Bing)



#267 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 08:38 PM

A few pics in this one
http://alespiga.blog...igaPhotography (Alessandro+Spiga+Photography)&m=1

#268 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 08:44 PM

Falcone in Italia. Fitting right in
https://m.flickr.com...do/15042589336/

#269 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 09:25 PM

LR new challenger of record (already posted by Xlot in another thread)

 

http://www.sail-worl...ppointed/126105



#270 Barnyb

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 11:16 AM

 

 

 

Luna Rossa Base Tour, Cagliari

 

figured i'd sneak in a quick walk around the base for everyone who couldn't make it to Cagliari for the team's first Open Day.
 
Music: Lex - Ratatat


#271 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 10:01 PM

LLR choses Hydros for the performance simulator.https://www.facebook.com/hydros.ch

graphiquesimulateur.jpg



#272 aldo

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 10:55 PM

That's an extremely technical graph you have there, TC.

Thanks for that.

#273 ozchrisb

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Posted 09 September 2014 - 11:53 PM

That is one of the stupidest charts ever.



#274 aldo

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 01:16 AM

Explain it to TC cause he wants to discuss its intricacies.

#275 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 02:29 AM

Explain it to TC cause he wants to discuss its intricacies.

Too much spooge in your eyes prevents you from seeing the essential, the agreement with Hydros.

 

http://www.hydros.ch...-dynamique.html



#276 SW Sailor

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 05:52 AM

Explain it to TC cause he wants to discuss its intricacies.

 

No problem, the master will be by any minute to share his brilliance with the simple laymen.



#277 Xlot

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:33 AM


Dynamic simulation is the latest thing so thanks TC, but

That is one of the stupidest charts ever.


was my reaction exactly - and it makes one wonder how much GIGO their software is

#278 Alpha FB

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 08:43 AM

Well the chart certainly confirms the GO part...



#279 Xlot

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 06:11 PM


Both AC45s foiling, video too:

http://www.farevela....iling-cagliari/

#280 nav

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 06:36 PM

^ Do you know if they are using AC35 tech - primary flight control through adjustable rudders?

 

big__MG_9288.jpg

© Luna Rossa



#281 Xlot

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 06:51 PM

^
No info, but my understanding is heave control remains primarily via AoA on the main foils, rudder stabilizers being set per point of sailing and wind/sea conditions. After all, isn't this what Moths do?

Edit: I believe Basiliscus (who else?) posted exhaustively on the subject

#282 ~Stingray~

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 01:18 PM

Both AC45s foiling, video too:

http://www.farevela....iling-cagliari/

Nice tease in the video. Am looking forward to seeing more of that.

Gtran: https://translate.go...ZMxBghMC8i23hYw

Can you please clarify the last paragraph?

#283 Xlot

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 02:57 PM

"Also worth remembering that the challenger committee led by the same LR is negotiating with the defender OR USA whether the foiling version of the AC45 will be used for the 2015-2016 ACWS or not"

#284 Guitar

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 03:05 PM

 

Yeah!



#285 Alpina

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Posted 14 September 2014 - 04:35 PM

Great seeing someone is on the water!



#286 barfy

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Posted Yesterday, 12:54 AM

^
No info, but my understanding is heave control remains primarily via AoA on the main foils, rudder stabilizers being set per point of sailing and wind/sea conditions. After all, isn't this what Moths do?

Edit: I believe Basiliscus (who else?) posted exhaustively on the subject

i believe "The entire rudder assembly can be rotated by the tiller twist grip to manually adjust the angle of of attack. "

http://www.bladerider.com.au/xseries/x8.html



#287 nav

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Posted Yesterday, 12:37 PM

^ Thanks, that was what I understood, but not being a Mothy I didn't feel qualified to question that ^^

 

So if they stick the 45's on foils 'officially' will they go with AC34 rules or AC35 rules* ?

 

*or are we still in the TBD phase on these as well?!



#288 Xlot

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Posted Yesterday, 12:52 PM

Aren't we saying the same thing? Certainly, rudder assemblies will be allowed to rotate - and therefore vary the stabilizers' AoA - and this adjustment (AC35 rules) will be permitted during a race. Except in reality this will be done maybe once per tack, and the primary means of heave control will still be via the main foils.

#289 nav

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Posted Yesterday, 12:58 PM

Aren't we saying the same thing? Certainly, rudder assemblies will be allowed to rotate - and therefore vary the stabilizers' AoA - and this adjustment (AC35 rules) will be permitted during a race. Except in reality this will be done maybe once per tack, and the primary means of heave control will still be via the main foils.

 

How come?

 

And are the rudder winglets fixed under the AC62 rule as it stands?

 

Edit: they are fixed...

 

10.4 Rudders shall rotate only, and shall have a maximum of two axes of rotation. One axis shall be
    within 0.010 m of the hull centerplane, and the other shall be on a rake axis. Rudder rotation
   about the rake axis shall be limited to a 3.00 degree range while racing.
10.5 Rudder rotation about the axis within 0.010 m of the hull centerplane shall only be controlled
    by steering wheels located in a cockpit in each hull. Steering wheels shall be no less than
   0.600 m in outside diameter. While racing rudders shall not be retracted or extended from their
  position in appendage measurement condition.
10.6 Rudder and rudder wing components shall be rigidly fixed to each other and their shapes
    shall not be adjusted while racing. The rudder wings shall be rigidly fixed to the rudders and
   shall not be adjusted relative to the rudders while racing.

 



#290 Xlot

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Posted Yesterday, 01:38 PM


the primary means of heave control will still be via the main foils.

 
How come?

I read it in SA, so it must be true :D Seriously, somebody should ask Basiliscus to re-post it
 

And are the rudder winglets fixed under the AC62 rule as it stands?
 
Edit: they are fixed...
 
10.4 Rudders shall rotate only, and shall have a maximum of two axes of rotation. One axis shall be
    within 0.010 m of the hull centerplane, and the other shall be on a rake axis. Rudder rotation
   about the rake axis shall be limited to a 3.00 degree range while racing.

 


Yes, fixed to rudders - which may rake 3 degrees while racing (presumably more prior to start, similar to what was done in AC34).
Pointing out once more that the wrong use of terms such as "rudder wings", "gennaker" and Code Zero" in documents as prestigious as successive AC Rules, is beneath contempt.

#291 nav

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Posted Yesterday, 02:16 PM

Warping the language - while fixing the rules?






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