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My new custom Jim Betts aluminum peapod


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#1 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:20 AM

I am building a new boat for me and my granddaughter. I am designing it with lots of help from my 3d guy Jody Culbertson ( Rasputin here). Jim Betts will build it out of welded alu in the origami method from two flat sheets.

It will be bare alu and weigh 120 lbs. and it will be the coolest row boat around. I need alu for the rocks on my beach.

I will name my boat POPEYE. There will be nothing like it. LOA 15'.

I realize this is SAILING Anarchy but I find that most sailors enjoy an efficient, good looking pulling boat.

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#2 Owen

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:26 AM

That's really cool but shouldn't the oars be the same length?



#3 phillysailor

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:27 AM

Very choice. 

 

Aluminum is a good material for resisting bumps and bruises, but were you at all tempted by Chesapeake Light Craft's Expedition Wherry?



#4 Pete M

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:35 AM

5053 alu ?



#5 6924

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 03:15 AM

Peapods are Fine rowboats - here is a SF selling them

http://www.guideboat...the-peapod.html

#6 blackjenner

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 03:22 AM

Excuse me but, what if you made it out of Titanium?

I mean, really? Why not?

#7 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 03:38 AM

BJ:

I need alu so I can drag it up the beach, you know my beach, and I am inclined to go with my own design ideas. I admire the Chesapeake Light Craft boats a lot. But they are not for me.

 

I don't need the cost of titanium and I do need the large size sheets I can get in alu so I can do the origami method. I didn't consider titanium. Titanium could be thinner plate and lighter but then it would be much harder tom keel fair with the minimal framing I am using. I conceived this boat as an aluminum boat. There you have it.

 

Pete:

5052.

5086 is a buck more per sq. ft. but this boat will not live in the water. It will live on the logs or in my front yard. I can hose it off. Don't need 5086.



#8 DRIFTW00D

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 03:44 AM

U putting a sliding seat in her. Adjustable closed gate Concept2s,with full length sculls is worth a try too.

#9 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 03:48 AM

Drifter:

No. I am keeping it very simple. Think Popeye.

You can have a sliding seat in yours though.



#10 Amoretto

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:02 AM

Wondered if you would get this design over here.......lolol

 

Marty



#11 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:13 AM

Marty:

Yes. I am showing it off. This boat does not exist today and I am having a lot of fun with it. Maybe someone else lives on a rocky beach.



#12 Amoretto

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:18 AM

So where does Betts build out of? I've been to an aluminum builder or two in Marysville on the south side........



#13 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 04:25 AM

Jim Betts is in Anacortes. He's an old friend. He is very, very good with alu.

Here is a little project I did with Jim, WILD HORSES.

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#14 Steam Flyer

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:11 PM

U putting a sliding seat in her. Adjustable closed gate Concept2s,with full length sculls is worth a try too.

 

Wouldn't that kinda look out of place? This is more a workboat style. Also it's probably not fast enough to take much advantage, the seat is expensive and takes up a lot of interior room (well this is going to be an expensive boat anyway).

 

Pete Culler did a lot of pretty nice traditonial rowing boats, and put some fairly nice rolling seats in them... not as much movement as a full fledged sculler's sliding seat. He said it didn't help with speed but it did make it easier on your shoulders in a long row, and kept circulation going in your legs. But some people found it makes the boat feel tippy.

 

I was originally thinking "why aluminum? FG would be much lighter and just as tough" but after thinking it over, I think Bob is exactly right. Yes fiberglass is easy to patch but a dent doesn't leak and you can hammer it back smooth or just leave it. The little boats I have been playing with lately are in the 120~130 lb range and it's possible but hard work for one person to drag them around. Lighter would be better.

 

FB- Doug



#15 USA 236

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:16 PM

Jim Betts is in Anacortes. He's an old friend. He is very, very good with alu.
Here is a little project I did with Jim, WILD HORSES.


Jim built our last Andrews 30 and it is still going strong 25 years later. Our boat was composite however. Hijack over, neat little row boat!

#16 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:17 PM

Flyer:

I am not even considering a sliding seat. Maybe some day.

The skin plate will be .090" and that is not as light as you find on a lot of small alu boats.



#17 Tucky

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:28 PM

Having rowed a nice wooden Jim Steele peapod, I think weight is your enemy on the beach, but maybe not in the water.

 

But then you're a big guy:-)

 

Neat boat- you still see aluminum canoes up this way- they can take a beating like no other.



#18 mrgnstrn

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:29 PM

Bob,

 

please excuse the ignorance, but what is the "origami method" ?

 

-M



#19 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 01:49 PM

Morgan:

"Origami method" refers to building from one flat sheet per side. You cut "darts" in the plating and bend the plate around the darts. This style of building has been around for a while. Yves-Marie Tanton has used it. My boat will be a bit more elabiorate than some origam boats in that I need more than one dart so can control the shape in the ends. I did't want the methid to dictate the shape. I told Jody, my 3D guy , what I was after and he worked his magic. I could post the panel "cut sheet" but I'm afraid someone would taked it and use it. And it is still preliminary. Jody built a cardboard model to check out how the panels worked.



#20 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:00 PM

Origami is a method of construction starting with flat sheets of material, usually steel or aluminum, twisted into shapes. The occasional internals being added on the inside. This way of building can be adapted to fairly large boats, power or sail.Attached File  229seq1-pic1-OR17-11.jpg   1.53K   186 downloadsAttached File  229seq2-pic2-OR17-11.jpg   1.48K   173 downloadsAttached File  228seq3-pic3.jpg   1.44K   77 downloads



#21 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:04 PM

Thanks Yves-Marie.

 

These pics show our prliminary cut pattern and a quick cardboard model Jody made.

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#22 Steam Flyer

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:24 PM

Flyer:

I am not even considering a sliding seat. Maybe some day.

The skin plate will be .090" and that is not as light as you find on a lot of small alu boats.

 

Wasn't trying to talk you into it, just commenting!

Just don't let any crew drop a penny in the bilge

 

FB- Doug



#23 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 02:53 PM

Steam:

I've been walking the dogs and thinking about the long seat instead of my current thwart. The long seat wouild lkend itself well to a sliding seat at some point. But for now it's all about simplicity and zero maintainence.

This morning I have no beach. The tide is in and clear up to the logs.

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#24 pipboat

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:24 PM

Peapods are Fine rowboats - here is a SF selling them

http://www.guideboat...the-peapod.html

Wow, that horrible flat sheerline...  I didn't know it was even possible to build something that ugly in lapstrake. 

 

This is what a real peapod looks like, they're actually attractive boats.

 

Ballentine_08_0781.jpg

 

Note the narrower waterline beam and softer bilge compared to the thing those people in Marin are selling...  this will row easier and be a better sea boat.

 

P.S.  I like the lines on Bob's boat and the aluminum will be a fine solution and obviously rugged as can be on that rocky beach but as a wooden boat snob I'd have probably picked a plank keel boat like a Seabright Skiff or a Herreshoff 17 and covered the bottom plank with 1/8" HDPE

 

 

 



#25 Bsquared

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:31 PM

I remember reading some years ago about a river race where you went to an island, picked up trash (mimimum X pounds per person or something) and raced back.  The ET winner was always a custom aluminum 8-oared shell.  The course apparently included some minor rapids...  Don't know what kind of oars they used.

 

If you are doing that kind of arms race, the titanium idea has merit :-)



#26 Bulbhunter

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:32 PM

I like it Bob any chance it could easily be tweaked to be a nesting split personality hull? Still would like to try and find a 15-16foot light hull that breaks into two which I could rack on top of our tent trailer and easily be carried over dads head one piece at a time down to the water. I know its taboo but tossing the 2hp honda on it would give me an instant winner for putting around with the kids when we go camping looking for fishing spots etc.



#27 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:39 PM

Bulbster:

Yeah, we talked about a nester. It would be pretty easy. But for now I need to focus on the prototype. We heard from another alu work boat builder today interested in a "license".

 

Pip:

My boat will have a sweet sheer. Like my bumper sticker says, "Life's to short own an ugly boat".

I really like the look of the one you posted. Hard to beat lapstrake when you good lines to show off. But I can get some of that effect with the multiple chines.



#28 Great Red Shark

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:07 PM

Having run many rivers in Pennsylvania with those standard Grumman aluminum canoes, I can attest to the durability of the material - your more sophisticated design and construction method should make for an interesting boat - I hope someone does decide to pursue production - the material really deserves better than the stamped-out by the thousands standard canoe we associate it with.

Resist making a transom version for the 'gotta have a motor' crowd, (for as long as you can) please - although that will be the big seller.

Nice looking boat - is the keel a thicker plate ?

#29 Bulbhunter

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:21 PM

Having run many rivers in Pennsylvania with those standard Grumman aluminum canoes, I can attest to the durability of the material - your more sophisticated design and construction method should make for an interesting boat - I hope someone does decide to pursue production - the material really deserves better than the stamped-out by the thousands standard canoe we associate it with.

Resist making a transom version for the 'gotta have a motor' crowd, (for as long as you can) please - although that will be the big seller.

Nice looking boat - is the keel a thicker plate ?

 

LOL he could cheat and put a well in the aft end then it keeps its good looks and one could appear to be paddling like mad only with a 2hp honda doing all the work ;-)

 

Bob let me know if the nester idea gains traction. You may have a buyer here could have had a whole lot of fun with this sort of rig up at Tahoe last month. The Redcrest with ply floors and 2hp honda worked well but something like this we could have spent more time out on the lake and less time putting around Tahoe Keys looking at ducks. LOL



#30 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:52 PM

Bulbster:

I'll let you know as we go along.

 

Shark:

There is a centerline backbone plate that I figure as .25" thick. I'd prefer .375 but weight is weight.

Just heard from another potential buyer.

I love the smell of royalties in the morning.

 

Now we just have to get the project moving before knock off thief steals my idea.

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#31 jim lee

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:03 PM

Yeah, when is this going to start up? I'll finally have a fun project close by that I can visit.

 

-jim lee



#32 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:11 PM

Jim:

I hope to visit Jim Betts this week. I'll drop by your shop when I'm in town.

I want some fun.



#33 dacapo

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:21 PM

Excuse me but, what if you made it out of Titanium?

I mean, really? Why not?

i think it should be made out of unobtanium.....;-)

 

boat looks great Bob.....".row row row your boat gently down the stream...."



#34 Bob Perry

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:57 PM

How hard is it to weld titanium?

How expensive is titanium compared to aluminum?

How durable is titanium.

If titanium is stronger it can be thinner but then how do you keep it fair?

Are there any maintenance issues with titanium?

How big a sheet can you buy titanium in?

What gauges are titanium availabe in at the sheet size we need.

What's the local inventory of titanium like in the thickness and sheet size we need.

I know these are not "fun" questions but they have to be answered if titanium is going to be thrown out as a possibility.



#35 6924

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:13 AM

workboat - authentic 

 

 

William Morris :) 



#36 Rasputin22

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:39 AM

Bob, I bought a titanium bolt for the tailwheel of my little composite sailplane. It replaced a SS bolt that had been drilled out for weight saving but got bent in a hard '2 point landing'. 4" x 5/16" or thereabouts and I think I paid $45 for it. 100 lbs of TI would be pretty pricey I'd think. I did some work for a guy who was trying to build mega yachts out of TI and he got nowhere. The Peened Pod would make a great 'proof of tech' for these guys though and they have or had access to some very neat 'friction stir welding' machines at Michoud in New Orleans. Michoud was a NASA facility and they started the place way back in WW2 to build PT Boats but is now the National Center for Advanced Manufacturing. They are probably shut down for the current state of govt funding, but there might be some interest in a TI stir welded Peened Pod. You would have to deliver it in an armoured truck though.



#37 Great Red Shark

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 12:44 AM

Lots of cheap Titanium parts were coming out of the old Soviet Union awhile back "military contractors looking for new markets" was the story. Fair bit of it was radioactively 'hot'.

#38 Rasputin22

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:03 AM

Yeah, my TI contact was doing the Russian source. He got involved with them via the TI hydrofoils on the Volga ferry boats. Tried to bring those in for the Nantucket run but the Indians and the Mob jerked that rug out from under them. He did manage to get one situated down in St Thomas for the run to St Croix, a pretty rugged 35 mile run in open Trade WInds conditions. THey might have worked on a run to St Martin, dead upwind but the beam sea on the run to Christiansted made them roll and were given the very well deserved name of the 'Vomit Comet'. I tried to cross ones bow on a sailboard as it accelerated out of the W. Gregorie channel in Charlotte Amalie. I was hauling ass on a short board fully powered up but when they put the coals to that monster it leapt out of the water. I bore off to cross its stern. That was a reflex move for jumping ferry boat wakes, but the wake of this hydrofoil was just a maelstrom of spray and water. I freaked and ditched just short of the ferry and was able to watch the foils and surface piercing props just churn past as I plunged deep into the clear waters. I'll never forget the sound of all those cavitating foil and prop and strut surfaces.

 

Sorry, I got carried away. Pretty blatant hijack of a thread about a 'pulling boat'. That could get me fired...

 

I'm pricing TI for the build, just for the record.



#39 Bill's Sock Puppet

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:49 AM

Why the need for the "out-riggers" just for the oar locks?

 

I presume it is a beam vs. ergonomics thing, however if you plan to pull alongside a boat or dock, these aluminum edges will be the first point of contact.

 

 

Oh, and what's it rate?



#40 @last

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:56 AM

Boat looks nice, you will have to post progress pic ala the Dart if possible.  Is that pic on the beach recent-white stuff already out there?  Good luck with it the boat has nice lines.



#41 Rasputin22

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 02:36 AM

The outriggers will permit longer oars. This  is a relatively narrow boat and oarlocks on the gunnels will limit the length of oars. I've been working on folding outriggers this afternoon and think that they might be a valid solution. Of course Bob has the final say on that! It is a real challenge to have the folding outriggers that will have the proper geometry for efficient rowing and still fold within the hull and not be a structural nightmare. Working on it though. For all of you that want to see an epoxy/ply version, be patient as Bob wants his boat in aluminum in short order, (who can blame him?) and I need to keep in step with him on detailing the design and build for the aluminum version for now, but rest assured that a epoxy/ply version is right around the corner. I will likely prototype the build in CNC cut ply before we commit to the plasma cut aluminum for Bob's boat and you will all be privy to the evolution of the build. Just behave and don't ask questions that have been answered previously, that can kill the buzz for a project such as this. Please respect the process that Bob is sharing here, it is a rare insight that should not be taken lightly. Pay attention as this progresses, it will be interesting. 



#42 Bob Perry

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:56 AM

Buit I don't want a titanium boat. Waaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!



#43 pipboat

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:18 AM

The outriggers will permit longer oars. This  is a relatively narrow boat and oarlocks on the gunnels will limit the length of oars. I've been working on folding outriggers this afternoon and think that they might be a valid solution. Of course Bob has the final say on that! It is a real challenge to have the folding outriggers that will have the proper geometry for efficient rowing and still fold within the hull and not be a structural nightmare. Working on it though. For all of you that want to see an epoxy/ply version, be patient as Bob wants his boat in aluminum in short order, (who can blame him?) and I need to keep in step with him on detailing the design and build for the aluminum version for now, but rest assured that a epoxy/ply version is right around the corner. I will likely prototype the build in CNC cut ply before we commit to the plasma cut aluminum for Bob's boat and you will all be privy to the evolution of the build. Just behave and don't ask questions that have been answered previously, that can kill the buzz for a project such as this. Please respect the process that Bob is sharing here, it is a rare insight that should not be taken lightly. Pay attention as this progresses, it will be interesting. 

 

Amongst the TSCA crowd a pretty common solution (in both laminated wood and metal) are "L" shaped outriggers that fit into slots built into the gunnels and can be lifted out when coming alongside a dock or another boat.

 

I got fancy and obtained a set of folding bronze riggers for my Herreshoff but you don't want to use bronze on that aluminum boat anyhow, do you?   :)   



#44 familysailor

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:39 AM

The outriggers will permit longer oars. This  is a relatively narrow boat and oarlocks on the gunnels will limit the length of oars. I've been working on folding outriggers this afternoon and think that they might be a valid solution. Of course Bob has the final say on that! It is a real challenge to have the folding outriggers that will have the proper geometry for efficient rowing and still fold within the hull and not be a structural nightmare. Working on it though. For all of you that want to see an epoxy/ply version, be patient as Bob wants his boat in aluminum in short order, (who can blame him?) and I need to keep in step with him on detailing the design and build for the aluminum version for now, but rest assured that a epoxy/ply version is right around the corner. I will likely prototype the build in CNC cut ply before we commit to the plasma cut aluminum for Bob's boat and you will all be privy to the evolution of the build. Just behave and don't ask questions that have been answered previously, that can kill the buzz for a project such as this. Please respect the process that Bob is sharing here, it is a rare insight that should not be taken lightly. Pay attention as this progresses, it will be interesting. 

Is it not possible to cut the material, (whatever it turns out to be) with a laser guided waterjet?

In a fomer life we had very elaborate granite and marble designs cut with a waterjet. very tight tolerances too.



#45 soak_ed

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:44 AM

The outriggers will permit longer oars. This  is a relatively narrow boat and oarlocks on the gunnels will limit the length of oars. I've been working on folding outriggers this afternoon and think that they might be a valid solution. Of course Bob has the final say on that! It is a real challenge to have the folding outriggers that will have the proper geometry for efficient rowing and still fold within the hull and not be a structural nightmare. Working on it though. For all of you that want to see an epoxy/ply version, be patient as Bob wants his boat in aluminum in short order, (who can blame him?) and I need to keep in step with him on detailing the design and build for the aluminum version for now, but rest assured that a epoxy/ply version is right around the corner. I will likely prototype the build in CNC cut ply before we commit to the plasma cut aluminum for Bob's boat and you will all be privy to the evolution of the build. Just behave and don't ask questions that have been answered previously, that can kill the buzz for a project such as this. Please respect the process that Bob is sharing here, it is a rare insight that should not be taken lightly. Pay attention as this progresses, it will be interesting. 

Absolutely!  Thanks to you and Bob for sharing here, the Sliver project and the Perry Peapod are a fascinating insight into the world of boat design and building.  We are privileged to have access to this stuff and need to show respect.  It never ceases to amaze me in the various threads about Bob's design process and ideas and there are always people that chime in with questions or suggestions that often appear to me to be attempts at showing Bob that they know better.  Bob has been doing this for a long time and I am pretty sure he has a real good idea of what he is doing.  

 

Thanks again for all the great stuff.



#46 Albatros

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:51 AM

inquiring minds want to know where the spinash stash will be located ?



#47 Bob Perry

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:13 PM

Soaker:

Thanks. I'm just having fun with boats. That's been the number one plan since I was 14 years old.

 

The peapod is like my new hot girlfriend and I'm enjoying taking her around and showing her off.

Whooo Hoo!  Look at me!



#48 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:23 PM

dig it.  looking forward to the non-rocky beach version in epoxy/ply for my little slice of heaven. I've got a davit on my deck...



#49 TheFlash

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:26 PM

Hey Bandwagon jumper - get in line fella!   :)



#50 Bob Perry

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 01:37 PM

I think Jody is already thinking of a composite version. That's the easy part now we have the shape. I have a neighbor who I am certain will want to build a plywood version. My beach would chew a composite boat up.



#51 Remodel

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 02:19 PM

Nice one Bob. Good luck with the project.



#52 DRIFTW00D

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 02:57 PM

  I know the weight goes up. Could this boats middle section be stretched in to a double design? Taking people for rides is easier if they are pulling too and some of us big guys would push this one deep making the pull not much fun.. I know one step at aaaa time just thinking ...



#53 Bob Perry

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:12 PM

Drifter:

Yes, it could. We can easily take this design and stretch it on the computer easily. I'd have to check with Jody but I think it's no problem.



#54 casc27

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:36 PM

Pretty little boat, Bob. But then most of yours are. Does the origami method simplify the build and thus makes things more economical? (And I think the titanium crowd would likely faint at the materials cost. Just a guess.)

 

This is going to be a fun project to follow.



#55 Junkyard Dog

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 03:57 PM

It's a beauty Bob!



#56 Bob Perry

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 04:40 PM

Thanks Casc and Junk. I was thinking the same thing about the cost of titanium.

 

Originally I chose the orimigami method as a way of building quickly and cheaply. Now I'm not so sure. Jim Betts is out of town this week and will be back next week. I'll meet wth him then and see what this boat will cost. I have two other builkders interested so maybe I can get bids. But I know Betts is the man for the job. He's just so fucking good. This kind of boat and this kind of project is outside of my comfort zone. But I'm not worried. I can work it out. I have a lot of people here on SA/CA will to chip in with ideas.



#57 canyoncat

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:03 PM

As a procurement agent for a major aerospace manufacturer, I can assure you, no one would be willing to pay for a titanium peapod. :blink:



#58 Kenny Dumas

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:34 PM

Cool thing about titanium is that it has 10% of the thermal conductivity of aluminum so your ass / feet / hands don't freeze in cold weather.  It's pretty amazing when you experience it.  My Ti Leatherman was great, actually felt warm to the touch.  Until the TSA assholes stole it out of my dive bag...



#59 Bob Perry

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 06:51 PM

Kenny:

I'll wear socks if I have to.



#60 Paul Romain Tober

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:26 PM

Bolger peapod Sweat Pea:

 

sweet%20pea.jpg

 

P9060098.jpg



#61 jim lee

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:31 PM

Isn't titanium prone to scratch failure kinda' like glass? I think I read back in hte '90s that the round the world racers that used titanium fittings had more failures than the ones with stainless. This was because once the fitting got nicked, it would fail.

 

IF this is the case (Not positive)  I'd think dragging a titanium hull on a rocky beach would be a disaster.

 

or not..

 

-jim lee



#62 Bob Perry

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 07:49 PM

Interesting discussion of Titanium but my boat always was and will be an aluminum boat.

 

Jim Lee:

Betts is in Friday Harbor this week working on his house. I'll come up next week. We can try that Chinese joint.

 

Romaine:

I don't like the sheer on That Bolger boat. That's the first time I have ever said that. But to my old eye it kind of goes wonky in the ends.



#63 ProaSailor

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:08 PM

The outriggers will permit longer oars. This  is a relatively narrow boat and oarlocks on the gunnels will limit the length of oars. I've been working on folding outriggers this afternoon and think that they might be a valid solution. Of course Bob has the final say on that! It is a real challenge to have the folding outriggers that will have the proper geometry for efficient rowing and still fold within the hull and not be a structural nightmare. Working on it though.

 
slrs_outrigger.jpg
 
from: http://www.grapeview...s.com/slrs.html
 
DSCF0686-s.jpg
 
from: http://www.duckworks...jects/wilsboat/
 

Stanley makes a gate hinge with hard plastic bushings with no "slop" whatsoever, that is the basis for the folding out riggers. I first used these on Heathers whitehall and have since converted my skiffs outriggers to them. They do not require any holdown in use. The oars are hollow square shafts (cedar) with glass blades--2 pounds apiece, 6'6".

 

IMG_0265.JPG

 

from: http://www.nextwaveboat.com/ (St. Lawrence Skiff) 



#64 chessiebaysailor

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:14 PM

We used to call the old Grumman canoes "boom-a-loom" canoes because of the noise they made whenever you tapped the hull with the paddle, on a rock, or with your elbow, or something inside like canteens.  It was the rare paddler that could sneak up on a heron or turtle in the river without alerting it to your presence.  I hope with the extra chines you have shorter spans that won't be subject to that "booming" as the hull is slapped by waves or you, etc.



#65 Rasputin22

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:35 PM

Thanks for showing those riggers ProaSailor. I had found these very early on

 

http://www.shawandte...talog/index.php

 

and I think they are the same as in your first photo. Bob wasn't too interested but I think the price had a lot to do with that. They look a lot more substantial and well thought out in your pic and I think Bob might reconsider their use. I modeled up something similar to the St Lawrence setup but without the sliding seat. 



#66 ProaSailor

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:10 PM

Thanks for showing those riggers ProaSailor. I had found these very early on

 

http://www.shawandte...talog/index.php

 

and I think they are the same as in your first photo. Bob wasn't too interested but I think the price had a lot to do with that. They look a lot more substantial and well thought out in your pic and I think Bob might reconsider their use. I modeled up something similar to the St Lawrence setup but without the sliding seat. 

 

The idea of flipping the oarlock "outriggers" that way is pretty obvious, though this bronze model might be too short (4")?  Maybe something like it but in epoxy/carbon?  Not cheap either...

 

Some variation of the gate hinge idea might have some merit though?  Many different shapes and sizes,  Good luck.

 

5MRD8_AS01.JPG5GJG7_AS01.JPG

 

from: http://www.zorotools...-Hinges/c-5360/



#67 b6sfull

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 09:36 PM

Don't forget a drink holder. (The size if a spinnach can).

Cute boat Bob, You and your grand daughter will have an awesome time.

#68 Bob Perry

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 10:23 PM

Rasper:

We could do something like the Proa top suggestion in alu. I know you were on this earlier and I blew you off but I am slow learning.

I really want minimal moving parts.

 

Can't be rowing my darkling granddaughter around and drinking.

Attached Files



#69 ProaSailor

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:10 AM

How about attaching a tube to the inboard bottom edge of the piece you have drawn to hold the oarlocks, making the whole thing into a hinge, able to flip up and inboard ~270 degrees?



#70 Bob Perry

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:50 AM

Proa:

I'm  not sure I even want that piece there.

I want simple.

 

I'm not big on flipping.



#71 fastyacht

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:31 AM

It looks like I specified 7'6"oars on the 15 foot peapod:

 

 

 

The titanium discussion don't make no damned sense. Being denser than aluminum, it will be heavier, otherwise it won't be stiff enough or it will have a whole bunch of stiffeners. You'd have to make it out of 40 thou and what a pain that would be. Sure it is "warmer" than aluminum, but so is wood--and warmer yet than Ti. Make the thwarts out of wood. Put in some floorboards. Problem solved.

Attached Files



#72 ProaSailor

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 02:26 AM

Proa:

I'm  not sure I even want that piece there.

I want simple.

 

I'm not big on flipping.

 

Oh?  So contrary to the caption on your granddaughter's photo, you're not going to build it the way you (or Rasputin22) drew it?  Got it.

 

And retractable oarlocks are out too?  Oh well.

 

This idea (below) is simple.  Needs refinement, of course.  Just a sketch.

 

The blue parts rotate as a solid piece around the gray "pin" which is fixed to the gray deck:

 

oarlock-0.png

 

oarlock-3.png

 

oarlock-4.png

oarlock-5.pngoarlock-6.png



#73 pipboat

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 05:09 AM

Proa:

I'm  not sure I even want that piece there.

I want simple.

 

I'm not big on flipping.

Simple like an "L" shaped piece of laminated wood that slides into a bracket?   Or do the same thing in aluminum?

 

Attached File  Natoma.jpg   3.41K   20 downloads



#74 ProaSailor

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 05:32 AM

Simple like an "L" shaped piece of laminated wood that slides into a bracket?   Or do the same thing in aluminum?
 
attachicon.gifNatoma.jpg


Nice! Got a bigger photo? Does it need a lanyard to keep it from falling overboard when removed?



#75 bgytr

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:31 AM

Thanks Yves-Marie.

 

These pics show our prliminary cut pattern and a quick cardboard model Jody made.

 

 

What sort of connection is made at the midship transverse seams?  Do you lap a plate over the seam and weld or rivet? or do you just butt weld it?



#76 Tanton Yacht Design

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:49 PM

Attached File  229Prairieboat018.JPG   95.31K   66 downloads

 

"Origami boat" in metal implies thick plating to work. The middle junction is butt welded together. With thin plating and long darts, I am afraid of too much distortion.instead of smooth plating.



#77 Bob Perry

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 01:54 PM

Thin plating was never considered. I want the heaviest skin I can have and still, hit my weight target. I want a fair boat. We have made some subtle design changes (Jody has, I watch) and we now have less shell area than originally so that will help. We also now have a price for materials from the builder and no, I won't tell you what it is.



#78 Kenny Dumas

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:22 PM

Might be good to have some kind of tie downs for a coldbox right in front of the middle seat to keep the crabs / beer in.  If you set it up so the top is same height as the seat, then you can scoot forward a bit to trim out better with a heavier passenger.  Dual purpose, simple, light.



#79 Bulbhunter

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:35 PM

Thin plating was never considered. I want the heaviest skin I can have and still, hit my weight target. I want a fair boat. We have made some subtle design changes (Jody has, I watch) and we now have less shell area than originally so that will help. We also now have a price for materials from the builder and no, I won't tell you what it is.

 

Bob I do like the capped deck look sorry can't recall the proper name for the top section also at least appears to make it look more sea worthy if you get caught out on the water when it gets a little choppy. Do you think the beam and bottom shape would make it stable enough to haul your self in from over the side or say haul someone else in from over the side? The PeaPod design in general looks very Salty work boat like which seems like out of the nature of work boat heritage would be pretty stable with side loads like hauling pots up or a drunk fisherman out of the drink etc. LOL



#80 Bob Perry

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:43 PM

Bulb:

No, I don't think so. If you know what you are doing you could haul someone aboard but it would not be easy or fun. Those feaures don't lend themselves  to a sweet rowing shape. If you want to haul out drunks you need the Walker Bay with air tubes. I have one of those and it is very stable and rows like shit. I thiunk the correct answer to your question is probably, we'll just to wait and see. Maybe I need to do a stability analysis.

 

Six boats are now spoken for. Just talked to, one of my neighbors and he wants one for his birthday. His will be OLIVE OYL. SWEET PEA and BLUTO are already taken.



#81 Rasputin22

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 08:53 PM

Everyone better claim their name now for their Peened Pod. Good names are going fast! I think I'm going for 'Cole Oyl', Olive's father. Bob, your neighbor might want to check his spelling.

 

Characters originating in the comic strips[edit]

Listed in rough order of original appearance

  • Olive Oyl
  • Castor Oyl (Olive Oyl's brother)
  • Cole Oyl (Olive Oyl's father)
  • Nana Oyl (Olive Oyl's mother)
  • Ham Gravy (full name Harold Hamgravy, Olive Oyl's original boyfriend)
  • Popeye the Sailor
  • The Sea Hag
  • The Sea Hag's vultures, specifically Bernard
  • J. Wellington Wimpy
  • George W. Geezil (the local cobbler who hates Wimpy)
  • Rough House (a cook who runs a local restaurant, The Rough House)
  • Swee'Pea (Popeye's adopted baby son in the comics, Olive's cousin in the cartoons)
  • King Blozo
  • Toar (a 900 pound caveman living in the modern age)
  • Bluto/Brutus
  • Goons, specifically Alice the Goon
  • Poopdeck Pappy (Popeye's 99-year-old long-lost father; also a sailor)
  • Eugene the Jeep
  • Barnacle Bill (a fellow sailor and old friend)
  • Oscar
  • Dufus (the son of a family friend)
  • Granny (Popeye's grandmother and Poopdeck's mother)
  • Bernice (The "Whiffle Bird" in 1960s King Features TV shorts)
  • O. G. Watasnozzle (a character with a large nose, as his name indicates)
  • Otis O. Otis, "The world's smartest detective"[51] as well as Wimpy's cousin filmmaker Otis Von Lens Cover[52][53]


#82 Bulbhunter

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 09:05 PM

Bulb:

No, I don't think so. If you know what you are doing you could haul someone aboard but it would not be easy or fun. Those feaures don't lend themselves  to a sweet rowing shape. If you want to haul out drunks you need the Walker Bay with air tubes. I have one of those and it is very stable and rows like shit. I thiunk the correct answer to your question is probably, we'll just to wait and see. Maybe I need to do a stability analysis.

 

Six boats are now spoken for. Just talked to, one of my neighbors and he wants one for his birthday. His will be OLIVE OYL. SWEET PEA and BLUTO are already taken.

Wow nice. Dang can't wait to see one. No doubt good rowing hull shape is not exactly ideal for hauling soggy sailors out of the drink.



#83 fastyacht

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:34 PM

Bulb:

No, I don't think so. If you know what you are doing you could haul someone aboard but it would not be easy or fun. Those feaures don't lend themselves  to a sweet rowing shape. If you want to haul out drunks you need the Walker Bay with air tubes. I have one of those and it is very stable and rows like shit. I thiunk the correct answer to your question is probably, we'll just to wait and see. Maybe I need to do a stability analysis.

 

Six boats are now spoken for. Just talked to, one of my neighbors and he wants one for his birthday. His will be OLIVE OYL. SWEET PEA and BLUTO are already taken.

Wow nice. Dang can't wait to see one. No doubt good rowing hull shape is not exactly ideal for hauling soggy sailors out of the drink.

Back in the day, lobsters were caught from peapods...complete with a "pot-hauler"...



#84 Bob Perry

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:50 PM

We don't have lobsters in Puget Sound. We have Dunganess crabs and rock crabs. I'm thinking about putting a roller on ther stern post to haul my pots. I need to keep the pot where I can see it. The crabs have tendancy to crawl out of the pot when you get it in the boat. I generally have no shoes on. You really need to keep your eyes on the crabs scurrying around the boat. A Dunganess crab can "bite" you so hard you will scream. I promise.



#85 fastyacht

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 01:18 AM

Ouch!

Jersey blue crabs murder each other in the bucket.



#86 IStream

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 02:22 AM

Proa:

I'm  not sure I even want that piece there.

I want simple.

 

I'm not big on flipping.

Simple like an "L" shaped piece of laminated wood that slides into a bracket?   Or do the same thing in aluminum?

 

attachicon.gifNatoma.jpg

I'll be you could do it in titanium!   ;)



#87 Bob Perry

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:40 AM

But I don't fucking want Titanium!



#88 Dorado

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:51 AM

Looks good Bob

 

Are you going to coat the bottom like the steelheaders do with their alum. driftboats.



#89 Tom Ray

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:00 AM

Looks good Bob

 

Are you going to coat the bottom like the steelheaders do with their alum. driftboats.

 


How about a nice titanium coating?



#90 IStream

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:53 AM

But I don't fucking want Titanium!

That's why it's funny.



#91 Steam Flyer

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 12:45 PM

But I don't fucking want Titanium!

 

Oh c'mon, try it... you'll like it



#92 Bob Perry

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 01:20 PM

Darado:

Not planning on any coating. What do the driftboats use?

On my beach whatever it is could get scrubbed off in no time.

 

I have another peen  pod spoken for now, OLIVE OYL, to a retired vet who lives in my beach. He currently has a 12' alu skiff, ugly as sin, that he uses for crabbing etc. To get it up the beach he uses a three wheeled wheelbarriow. The three wheels are all on the same axle. He just lays the skiff sideways across the wheelbarrow and hauls it up the beach. He has some padding on the bin of the wheelbarrow.



#93 Dorado

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 02:21 PM

Bob
they put an epoxy coating on the bottom because alum. "Sticks" and hangs up on rock when drifting at low flows. The coating lets the boat slide right over with a fraction of the friction. Might be handy for dragging it up on the beach.

#94 casc27

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:16 PM

Ouch!

Jersey blue crabs murder each other in the bucket.

 

Well, they are from 'Jersey, after all.



#95 Bob Perry

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:20 PM

Dorado:

I had never heard of that but then I don't know much about drift boats other than there shape. I do my fishing from the beach. I will most certainly look into this. It sounds ideal for me.



#96 Tom Ray

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:44 PM

Bob, airboat guys use various coatings to make their airboats slide better. I'm not quite enough of a redneck to know which coating works best, but I have a neighbor who would know if you are interested.



#97 Bob Perry

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 03:55 PM

Tom:

Sure I would be very interested. But I'm talking about rocks. Do they operate airboats in rocky shore areas? When I see them on TV they are always flying over marshy shorelines. We don't have marshy on my beach.



#98 Tom Ray

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:12 PM

Tom:

Sure I would be very interested. But I'm talking about rocks. Do they operate airboats in rocky shore areas? When I see them on TV they are always flying over marshy shorelines. We don't have marshy on my beach.

 

They try to avoid hard surfaces, but I have seen my neighbor go across his shell driveway and another guy drove his airboat right up a concrete boat ramp. The coatings have to be pretty tough to stay when blasting through sawgrass, but I have no idea how they would really hold up for your use.



#99 Bob Perry

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:28 PM

Tom:

Considering mine is the protoype I can always try it. Maybe launch without it and see how it goes and add later if I think I need it. Although it does sound good to me. I'll ask Jim Betts what he thinks.



#100 tls

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 05:35 PM

Thanks Yves-Marie.

 

These pics show our prliminary cut pattern and a quick cardboard model Jody made.

 

Beautiful boat. But I am not sure why you are using Origami.  With the darts you specified, you are going to have a really nice and fair hull,  but since your darts run the full length of the hull,  what is the advantage of building from a single piece?  It seems you are going to start with a single piece, cut it into 5 almost totally separate pieces and then assemble as a normal chined boat.  You might as well start cutting out the 5 sections from different sections of sheet.  It would give you a wider range of raw alum sheet sizes to work with.  It may also give you less scrap.  Is there some advantage to Origami that I am missing?

 

Will you have foam or watertight compartments in the ends?

 

The only thing "wrong" with the boat is that you haven't included any provision for a sail. I'd love to see a receiver for a small mast  (Optimist?) built into the boat, along with a removable rudder/steering board. I realize it isn't designed to be a proper sailing boat, but I have fond memories of our home build canoe that we would paddle to windward and then sail home. 






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