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The $600,000,000 Web Page


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#1 Happy Jack

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:01 PM

If there was any lingering doubt that the ACA was Bull Shit this erases it.

 

$600 Million wasted on a non functional web page and moronic Obamatons still won't see what a waste of 5 years this president has been. 

 

He will be remembered as the worst president. He is a gasbag who's only original idea is who to blame next. 

 

I already know your answer .... but but Bush .........



#2 kmccabe

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:07 PM

643 million for a website. My guess is that didn't go out to competitive bid. Stunning waste of money. 

 



#3 badlatitude

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:11 PM

Boy this post is right up there with the one that the President's trip to India was going to cost $2 Billion for a ten day trip.



#4 kmccabe

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:12 PM



#5 Happy Jack

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:19 PM

643 million for a website. My guess is that didn't go out to competitive bid. Stunning waste of money. 

 

 

Ebay was funded by 1/100th of that amount and I dare say their web site is more complicated.

 

Same story for Amazon, FaceBook, Twitter

 

The idea that you could even spend $643 Million launching a web page is pure insanity. This makes the Military look like penny pinchers.



#6 Happy Jack

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:21 PM

WE PAID $634 MILLION FOR THE OBAMACARE SITES AND ALL WE GOT WAS THIS LOUSY 404

#7 Happy Jack

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:23 PM

http://usaspending.g...SM500200700015I



#8 Fat Point Jack

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:28 PM

And Windows never crashed.



#9 Happy Jack

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:29 PM

Turns out CGI Federal is a Canadian company. I guess we are now indirectly funding The Canadian Health care system.



#10 Spatial Ed

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:33 PM

Should have given it to Halliburton.  They are real good at taking our money.



#11 d'ranger

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:49 PM

that report from happyjacksbutthurt.com was amazing.  Here is an adult look http://www.washingto...tors_picks=true


Obviously everything wrong with the Federal Government is Obama's fault. He hates those vets and legacy systems too. 
 

The result has been particularly stark when compared with the slick, powerful computer systems built for Barack Obama’s presidential campaigns, which in 2008 harnessed the emerging power of social networking and in 2012 relied on aggressive data-mining efforts to identify and turn out voters. For those, the campaign recruited motivated young programmers, often from tech start-ups.

“The wizards from the campaign have no desire to contract with the federal government because it’s a pain in the butt,” said Clay Johnson, a veteran technologist for Democratic campaigns who pushes for procurement reform through his whimsically named start-up, the Department of Better Technology. “Is it possible to be good? Is it possible to do right by the taxpayer in this space? I’m not sure that it is.”


 

The Web site needs to interact with many other systems, including those maintained by the Social Security Administration, the Department of Homeland Security and the Internal Revenue Service, to verify the identity, citizenship and income of potential applicants. It also was designed to draw from the offerings of private insurers, each with their own computer systems, rates and offerings.

John McDonough, a health policy professor at the Harvard School of Public Health, said, “The number of systems that have to align here is pretty daunting.”

................................................

“This is going to get fixed. This is a lot of scale. They got, in 24 hours, more people trying to register than Twitter got users in 24 months,” said Eric Gundersen, president of Development Seed. “Let’s not all hate on the government here.”

 



#12 TheFlash

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:50 PM

If there was any lingering doubt that the ACA was Bull Shit this erases it.

 

$600 Million wasted on a non functional web page and moronic Obamatons still won't see what a waste of 5 years this president has been. 

 

He will be remembered as the worst president. He is a gasbag who's only original idea is who to blame next. 

 

I already know your answer .... but but Bush .........

Even with all that, Mitt couldn't beat him.  Must really burn your britches.



#13 kmccabe

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:01 PM

643 million for a website. My guess is that didn't go out to competitive bid. Stunning waste of money. 

 

 

Ebay was funded by 1/100th of that amount and I dare say their web site is more complicated.

 

Same story for Amazon, FaceBook, Twitter

 

The idea that you could even spend $643 Million launching a web page is pure insanity. This makes the Military look like penny pinchers.

 

Twelve years ago I knew a major international bank that pushed a website out for $150 million ... it worked... sort of.

 

$643 million? Think of all the schools that could have supported. All those children...  



#14 Saorsa

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:04 PM

 

643 million for a website. My guess is that didn't go out to competitive bid. Stunning waste of money. 

 

 

Ebay was funded by 1/100th of that amount and I dare say their web site is more complicated.

 

Same story for Amazon, FaceBook, Twitter

 

The idea that you could even spend $643 Million launching a web page is pure insanity. This makes the Military look like penny pinchers.

 

Twelve years ago I knew a major international bank that pushed a website out for $150 million ... it worked... sort of.

 

$643 million? Think of all the schools that could have supported. All those children...  

 

Fuck the schools, the children should have been designing and building the website.

 

They'd have done a better job.



#15 kmccabe

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:08 PM

Twelve years ago I knew a major international bank that pushed a website out for $150 million ... it worked... sort of.

 

$643 million? Think of all the schools that could have supported. All those children...  

 

Fuck the schools, the children should have been designing and building the website.

 

They'd have done a better job.

 

Little doubt. 



#16 LenP

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:29 PM

that report from happyjacksbutthurt.com was amazing.  Here is an adult look http://www.washingto...tors_picks=true


Obviously everything wrong with the Federal Government is Obama's fault. He hates those vets and legacy systems too. 
 

The result has been particularly stark when compared with the slick, powerful computer systems built for Barack Obama’s presidential campaigns, which in 2008 harnessed the emerging power of social networking and in 2012 relied on aggressive data-mining efforts to identify and turn out voters. For those, the campaign recruited motivated young programmers, often from tech start-ups.

“The wizards from the campaign have no desire to contract with the federal government because it’s a pain in the butt,” said Clay Johnson, a veteran technologist for Democratic campaigns who pushes for procurement reform through his whimsically named start-up, the Department of Better Technology. “Is it possible to be good? Is it possible to do right by the taxpayer in this space? I’m not sure that it is.”


 

>

The Web site needs to interact with many other systems, including those maintained by the Social Security Administration, the Department of Homeland Security and the Internal Revenue Service, to verify the identity, citizenship and income of potential applicants. It also was designed to draw from the offerings of private insurers, each with their own computer systems, rates and offerings.

John McDonough, a health policy professor at the Harvard School of Public Health, said, “The number of systems that have to align here is pretty daunting.”

................................................

“This is going to get fixed. This is a lot of scale. They got, in 24 hours, more people trying to register than Twitter got users in 24 months,” said Eric Gundersen, president of Development Seed. “Let’s not all hate on the government here.”

 

 

I agree with a lot of that, but a lot if BS and fail too. First, the reason that the same guys that built his campaign tech don't want to do this crap is exactly the reason I gave in another thread. I pointed out there that it is not a matter of cost or profit, it is a matter of dealing with a shitty process and people who have other options choosing not to torture themselves. The firm who built his campaign site was Blue States Digital. They had some consultants and volunteers from startups, but the meat and potatoes engineering and coding was done by BSD, They were our big competitor at the time. The campaign did not do their site in house with volunteers as the article implies. Lastly, given the time frame they had to work with, and the budget they had to work with, I am not giving anyone a pass for failing on such a spectacular scale. This is actually one of the easier projects to scope, because you know ahead of time what your user base is. Only a complete idiot would have been surprised by the traffic they saw or unprepared for it. It is not like you are building a startup and the traffic starts slow and then if you are lucky takes off. The traffic was always going to start at it's peak on day 1, but they knew that so it is no excuse. If you can't do the job, you don't take the job. It really annoys me to see people excusing this and giving the impression that there is some kind of black magic involved with coding. With that being said, it is ridiculous to call this a 630 million dollar web page. It is far more complicated than being a simple "page", it is a full blown web based application. It is complex, it is difficult, it is easy to fuck up, that is why you don't hire idiots to build it. They hired idiots, I can not give them a pass on that.

 

I have not yet taken the time to look at the code they wrote, but most of the issues I see cited are readily solved with known solutions. Object caching and asynchronous operations go a long ways towards solving scalability issues like this. They are making it sound like the scale is unheard of before, but it is just not that big. If you do your job right, this would have been completely doable. I think their problem was spending too much time on style and trying to be cool, and too little on running the plumbing and electric to make it work.



#17 kmccabe

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:32 PM

that report from happyjacksbutthurt.com was amazing.  Here is an adult look http://www.washingto...tors_picks=true


Obviously everything wrong with the Federal Government is Obama's fault. He hates those vets and legacy systems too. 
 

The result has been particularly stark when compared with the slick, powerful computer systems built for Barack Obama’s presidential campaigns, which in 2008 harnessed the emerging power of social networking and in 2012 relied on aggressive data-mining efforts to identify and turn out voters. For those, the campaign recruited motivated young programmers, often from tech start-ups.

“The wizards from the campaign have no desire to contract with the federal government because it’s a pain in the butt,” said Clay Johnson, a veteran technologist for Democratic campaigns who pushes for procurement reform through his whimsically named start-up, the Department of Better Technology. “Is it possible to be good? Is it possible to do right by the taxpayer in this space? I’m not sure that it is.”


 

>

The Web site needs to interact with many other systems, including those maintained by the Social Security Administration, the Department of Homeland Security and the Internal Revenue Service, to verify the identity, citizenship and income of potential applicants. It also was designed to draw from the offerings of private insurers, each with their own computer systems, rates and offerings.

John McDonough, a health policy professor at the Harvard School of Public Health, said, “The number of systems that have to align here is pretty daunting.”

................................................

“This is going to get fixed. This is a lot of scale. They got, in 24 hours, more people trying to register than Twitter got users in 24 months,” said Eric Gundersen, president of Development Seed. “Let’s not all hate on the government here.&

rdquo;

 

I agree with a lot of that, but a lot if BS and fail too. First, the reason that the same guys that built his campaign tech don't want to do this crap is exactly the reason I gave in another thread. I pointed out there that it is not a matter of cost or profit, it is a matter of dealing with a shitty process and people who have other options choosing not to torture themselves. The firm who built his campaign site was Blue States Digital. They had some consultants and volunteers from startups, but the meat and potatoes engineering and coding was done by BSD, They were our big competitor at the time. The campaign did not do their site in house with volunteers as the article implies. Lastly, given the time frame they had to work with, and the budget they had to work with, I am not giving anyone a pass for failing on such a spectacular scale. This is actually one of the easier projects to scope, because you know ahead of time what your user base is. Only a complete idiot would have been surprised by the traffic they saw or unprepared for it. It is not like you are building a startup and the traffic starts slow and then if you are lucky takes off. The traffic was always going to start at it's peak on day 1, but they knew that so it is no excuse. If you can't do the job, you don't take the job. It really annoys me to see people excusing this and giving the impression that there is some kind of black magic involved with coding. With that being said, it is ridiculous to call this a 630 million dollar web page. It is far more complicated than being a simple "page", it is a full blown web based application. It is complex, it is difficult, it is easy to fuck up, that is why you don't hire idiots to build it. They hired idiots, I can not give them a pass on that.

 

I have not yet taken the time to look at the code they wrote, but most of the issues I see cited are readily solved with known solutions. Object caching and asynchronous operations go a long ways towards solving scalability issues like this. They are making it sound like the scale is unheard of before, but it is just not that big. If you do your job right, this would have been completely doable. I think their problem was spending too much time on style and trying to be cool, and too little on running the plumbing and electric to make it work.

 

 

C'mon Len... the mighty O had a bad day ... for three years. 



#18 Jon Eisberg

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:34 PM

$600 Million wasted on a non functional web page and moronic Obamatons still won't see what a waste of 5 years this president has been. 

 

Even so, more bang for the buck compared to the $992 million flushed down the toilet on the 2012 Romney campaign...



#19 kmccabe

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:36 PM

did Health and Human Services pay for the Romney Campaign? 

 

did our government ram cram and jam legislation through for THIS? 

 

it kind of makes you wonder whether the better man really did win the election. 



#20 Saorsa

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:36 PM

I think a lot of those millions have gone to the advertising and spinning the site in social media and not actual development of a sound product.

 

That's certainly what the direct evidence shows.

 

Something as fucked up as this doesn't get fixed with a little overtime in off peak hours.



#21 LenP

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:45 PM

I think a lot of those millions have gone to the advertising and spinning the site in social media and not actual development of a sound product.

 

That's certainly what the direct evidence shows.

 

Something as fucked up as this doesn't get fixed with a little overtime in off peak hours.

 

Some suggested reading before they do more stupid:

 

http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_sim_b_2

http://www.amazon.co...rds=death amrch

 

Lest they be tempted to fix it by throwing people at the problem or working them harder.



#22 Saorsa

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:49 PM

I think a lot of those millions have gone to the advertising and spinning the site in social media and not actual development of a sound product.

 

That's certainly what the direct evidence shows.

 

Something as fucked up as this doesn't get fixed with a little overtime in off peak hours.

 

Some suggested reading before they do more stupid:

 

http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_sim_b_2

http://www.amazon.co...rds=death amrch

 

Lest they be tempted to fix it by throwing people at the problem or working them harder.

 

A couple more

 

http://www.seas.gwu....p106-mantei.pdf

http://www.construx....er_Team_Update/

 

It's old but good.



#23 LenP

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:50 PM

C'mon Len... the mighty O had a bad day ... for three years. 

 

At a minimum, he had the wrong people on this, and like any boss, he has to take some responsibility for it. He needed better people from him on down to make sure this was not such an epic failure.



#24 White Cracker

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:50 PM

Fun watching the True Believers try to deflect this one.

Romney!!!!

Halliburton!!!!!

 

C'mon, guys, why not make it Bush's fault?



#25 LenP

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:51 PM

 

I think a lot of those millions have gone to the advertising and spinning the site in social media and not actual development of a sound product.

 

That's certainly what the direct evidence shows.

 

Something as fucked up as this doesn't get fixed with a little overtime in off peak hours.

 

Some suggested reading before they do more stupid:

 

http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_sim_b_2

http://www.amazon.co...rds=death amrch

 

Lest they be tempted to fix it by throwing people at the problem or working them harder.

 

A couple more

 

http://www.seas.gwu....p106-mantei.pdf

http://www.construx....er_Team_Update/

 

It's old but good.

 

 

I don't know those, but will read them soon. Thanks for the links.



#26 White Cracker

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:53 PM

Google "ACA website problems" and you get 6,200,000 matches.

Change it to "ObamaCare website problems" and you get 132,000,000 matches.

 

Quite a shining achievement.



#27 TheFlash

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:53 PM

to show some scale, and not saying they didn't fuck this up, but my little project at work has been $150M over 4 years, 57000 users, and we have significant issues due to integration with legacy systems.  This shit is hard.  Not impossible, and good design goes a long way, but it aint either easy, or cheap.



#28 d'ranger

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:54 PM

FWIW I have seen some colossal software failures including some thrown out after years and millions of dollars.  And that is in a business that is not having to integrate with a bunch of old government legacy systems. 

 

 

Fun watching the True Believers try to deflect this one.

Romney!!!!

Halliburton!!!!!

 

C'mon, guys, why not make it Bush's fault?

What's fun is watching the kids throw shit.  Other than Len P you guys are clueless.   Of course Len actually read the article I linked and has some enterprise scale experience. 



Google "ACA website problems" and you get 6,200,000 matches.

Change it to "ObamaCare website problems" and you get 132,000,000 matches.

 

Quite a shining achievement.

For a bunch of RW bloggers reposting the same shit over and over?  Outstanding. 



#29 White Cracker

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:54 PM

Obamacare Website Glitches Reveal Larger Government Problem

http://www.huffingto..._n_4077092.html

 

You don't say.



#30 White Cracker

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:56 PM

FWIW I have seen some colossal software failures including some thrown out after years and millions of dollars.  And that is in a business that is not having to integrate with a bunch of old government legacy systems. 

 

 

Fun watching the True Believers try to deflect this one.

Romney!!!!

Halliburton!!!!!

 

C'mon, guys, why not make it Bush's fault?

What's fun is watching the kids throw shit.  Other than Len P you guys are clueless.   Of course Len actually read the article I linked and has some enterprise scale experience. 



>>

Google "ACA website problems" and you get 6,200,000 matches.

Change it to "ObamaCare website problems" and you get 132,000,000 matches.

 

Quite a shining achievement.

For a bunch of RW bloggers reposting the same shit over and over?  Outstanding. 

The top of the search results  was from the Huffington Post.

RW bloggers?



#31 d'ranger

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 07:57 PM

Obamacare Website Glitches Reveal Larger Government Problem

http://www.huffingto..._n_4077092.html

 

You don't say.

Well Einstein that is the short version of the link I posted earlier.



#32 LenP

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:01 PM

to show some scale, and not saying they didn't fuck this up, but my little project at work has been $150M over 4 years, 57000 users, and we have significant issues due to integration with legacy systems.  This shit is hard.  Not impossible, and good design goes a long way, but it aint either easy, or cheap.

 

I don't know what the business logic it is that you are encapsulating, but that sounds like a piss poor execution. It is not that hard. Hard yes, but not 4 years and 150million hard.



#33 kmccabe

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:08 PM

to show some scale, and not saying they didn't fuck this up, but my little project at work has been $150M over 4 years, 57000 users, and we have significant issues due to integration with legacy systems.  This shit is hard.  Not impossible, and good design goes a long way, but it aint either easy, or cheap.

 

I don't know what the business logic it is that you are encapsulating, but that sounds like a piss poor execution. It is not that hard. Hard yes, but not 4 years and 150million hard.

 

... and they KNEW they had problems with it BEFORE it went "live". There are these things called "stress tests" and they simulate events like millions of users hitting a database. With all that money that was thrown at this nobody did this? Pretty doubtful.

 

Here's the good news. Obama isn't running for President again.  



#34 TheFlash

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:09 PM

it's the legacy things biting us in the ass.  Unfortunately, I signed up at rollout. so the thing was already fubar'd but I didn't know it...



#35 TMSAIL

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:14 PM

Looks like the word is getting out

 

Many more Americans see the rollout of of the Affordable Healthcare Act as not going well than as a success story, according to a new poll from AP-GfK.

The poll shows just 7 percent of Americans say the rollout has gone either "extremely well" (2 percent) or "very well" (5 percent). Another 20 percent say it has gone "somewhat well."



#36 LenP

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:14 PM

it's the legacy things biting us in the ass.  Unfortunately, I signed up at rollout. so the thing was already fubar'd but I didn't know it...

 

 

Supporting other folks mistakes always sucks. Without knowing more, all i can offer is a "good luck". So, good luck, I feel your pain.



#37 TMSAIL

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:15 PM

Looks like the word is getting out

 

Many more Americans see the rollout of of the Affordable Healthcare Act as not going well than as a success story, according to a new poll from AP-GfK.

The poll shows just 7 percent of Americans say the rollout has gone either "extremely well" (2 percent) or "very well" (5 percent). Another 20 percent say it has gone "somewhat well."



#38 Saorsa

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:28 PM

 

to show some scale, and not saying they didn't fuck this up, but my little project at work has been $150M over 4 years, 57000 users, and we have significant issues due to integration with legacy systems.  This shit is hard.  Not impossible, and good design goes a long way, but it aint either easy, or cheap.

 

I don't know what the business logic it is that you are encapsulating, but that sounds like a piss poor execution. It is not that hard. Hard yes, but not 4 years and 150million hard.

 

... and they KNEW they had problems with it BEFORE it went "live". There are these things called "stress tests" and they simulate events like millions of users hitting a database. With all that money that was thrown at this nobody did this? Pretty doubtful.

 

Here's the good news. Obama isn't running for President again.  

 

I sincerely hope he doesn't take up web applications design in his retirement.



#39 Bus Driver

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:29 PM

Fun watching the True Believers try to deflect this one.

Romney!!!!

Halliburton!!!!!

 

C'mon, guys, why not make it Bush's fault?

 

I am wondering if, when the next GOP President is elected, folks here will be able to refrain from blaming Obama.



#40 Saorsa

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:31 PM

Fun watching the True Believers try to deflect this one.

Romney!!!!

Halliburton!!!!!

 

C'mon, guys, why not make it Bush's fault?

 

I am wondering if, when the next GOP President is elected, folks here will be able to refrain from blaming Obama.

 

About as much as the democrats stopped blaming Bush after the election.

 

As far as the ACA is concerned, they are covered.



#41 Spatial Ed

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:41 PM

I'm not sure what you guys are on about.

I just went to www.healthcare.gov and clicked signup.

It asked me my state, I choose Colorado and it redirected me there.

I then browsed around the different plans, clicking various links.

All refresh times were sub-second and instantaneous.  No page hangs, no 404s. 

 

Can someone explain what isn't working?



#42 d'ranger

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:51 PM

I'm not sure what you guys are on about.

I just went to www.healthcare.gov and clicked signup.

It asked me my state, I choose Colorado and it redirected me there.

I then browsed around the different plans, clicking various links.

All refresh times were sub-second and instantaneous.  No page hangs, no 404s. 

 

Can someone explain what isn't working?

Go to http://www.chickenlittle.org.   That should explain everything.  oh snap, it's down. all down.  duck down.  Thanks Obama!



#43 TheFlash

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:54 PM

I'm not sure what you guys are on about.

I just went to www.healthcare.gov and clicked signup.

It asked me my state, I choose Colorado and it redirected me there.

I then browsed around the different plans, clicking various links.

All refresh times were sub-second and instantaneous.  No page hangs, no 404s. 

 

Can someone explain what isn't working?

like I said, a buddy and I went through the app in a bar, Friday night, while chatting up a cute bartendress. he was able to find out he will save $500/month



#44 Spatial Ed

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:56 PM

I'm not sure what you guys are on about.

I just went to www.healthcare.gov and clicked signup.

It asked me my state, I choose Colorado and it redirected me there.

I then browsed around the different plans, clicking various links.

All refresh times were sub-second and instantaneous.  No page hangs, no 404s. 

 

Can someone explain what isn't working?

like I said, a buddy and I went through the app in a bar, Friday night, while chatting up a cute bartendress. he was able to find out he will save $500/month

But did he get her number?  Thanks Obama!



#45 Regatta Dog

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:57 PM

I'm not sure what you guys are on about.

I just went to www.healthcare.gov and clicked signup.

It asked me my state, I choose Colorado and it redirected me there.

I then browsed around the different plans, clicking various links.

All refresh times were sub-second and instantaneous.  No page hangs, no 404s. 

 

Can someone explain what isn't working?

 

Colorado appears to have done a good job with their system. 

 

And kudos to the feds for making sure the hyperlinking works to the state exchanges. 



#46 Spatial Ed

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:59 PM

I'm not sure what you guys are on about.

I just went to www.healthcare.gov and clicked signup.

It asked me my state, I choose Colorado and it redirected me there.

I then browsed around the different plans, clicking various links.

All refresh times were sub-second and instantaneous.  No page hangs, no 404s. 

 

Can someone explain what isn't working?

 

Colorado appears to have done a good job with their system. 

 

And kudos to the feds for making sure the hyperlinking works to the state exchanges. 

So I went to Connecticut too.  Same clicky snappy response.    You got a state that isn't running?

 

Someone should tell the Cracker to get on it.  its up.  Maybe next time you sort the socks.



#47 TheFlash

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:07 PM

But did he get her number?  Thanks Obama!

I think he was tempted, but as he's just getting a divorce, he's not yet sure he wants to be "that old guy" with the young hottie.   He'll figure it out.



#48 plchacker

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:39 PM

I dug a little on the site.  It did not look that bat to me.  But, I did not get in to the guts.  I'm not sure what issues there are other than many sites did not roll out as they should have.  I'm not ready to hang anyone over that yet.  The cost is high.

 

My major concern is the security side.  It wanted me to create a log-in and I did not want to give it any personal info.  I don't know if HIPAA standards were used.  I would think that they are.  I would hope they are.  Beyond that, did they vet the coders?  Did they pay someone neutral to try to hack the system?  Hell, they could have had the NSA have a run at it.  They use to hire some of the best security "specialists" around.  I wonder if the President even knew he had that card to play? Go behind the developers back, or even warn them first and see what it takes to take the site down.

 

A slow roll out should not have happened, but I would be okay with that as long as the information is secure.  One thing is certain, there will be a host of folks trying every trick they can think of to a: shut it down, b: hack the data and c: cause any number of minor problems.  Honestly, that may have been a little of what caused the slow role out.

 

I am not defending the law, everyone here knows how I feel about the law.  I am not a web guru.  My computers are different.  I know there are sites I hate, many of them are government sites, most of those deal with taxes. (I do some work formatting data for an insurance company to upload to a tax system.) Also, when I ran my business I dealt with pretty much every tax collector through the web.   I do not want to use the healthcare.gov site.  I will not until forced to.  So I am content to say I don't have a clue of whether it is a good site or not.  I tend to believe LenP on issues like this.  Am I off base here?  



#49 Jon Eisberg

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:41 PM

Should have given it to Halliburton.  They are real good at taking our money.

 

Truly, nothing like this has ever happened before...

 

http://query.nytimes...3&smid=tw-share

 

 

 

I think I was on book leave or something during the rollout to Medicare Part D and didn't cover it much, but I recall having been more or less on board with the then-prevailing liberal idea that we were watching some kind of fiasco. And in retrospect, I guess we kind of were. But it also turns out to have basically not mattered. What you had were a lot of private firms with a strong incentive to get people to sign up for benefits, and you had a lot of senior citizens who once they did manage to get benefits were very happy about it.

 

http://www.slate.com...g_was_fine.html



#50 Bus Driver

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:44 PM

 

Fun watching the True Believers try to deflect this one.

Romney!!!!

Halliburton!!!!!

 

C'mon, guys, why not make it Bush's fault?

 

I am wondering if, when the next GOP President is elected, folks here will be able to refrain from blaming Obama.

 

About as much as the democrats stopped blaming Bush after the election.

 

As far as the ACA is concerned, they are covered.

 

Ah, but will they be able to handle the mocking and derision when folks point out their hypocrisy?



#51 Saorsa

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:49 PM

 

 

Fun watching the True Believers try to deflect this one.

Romney!!!!

Halliburton!!!!!

 

C'mon, guys, why not make it Bush's fault?

 

I am wondering if, when the next GOP President is elected, folks here will be able to refrain from blaming Obama.

 

About as much as the democrats stopped blaming Bush after the election.

 

As far as the ACA is concerned, they are covered.

 

Ah, but will they be able to handle the mocking and derision when folks point out their hypocrisy?

I suspect they are used to that.



#52 Happy Jack

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:49 PM

I think a lot of those millions have gone to the advertising and spinning the site in social media and not actual development of a sound product.

 

That's certainly what the direct evidence shows.

 

Something as fucked up as this doesn't get fixed with a little overtime in off peak hours.

 

I posted the link to the contracts. The $643 million was to the software contractor.



#53 Happy Jack

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:52 PM

$600 Million wasted on a non functional web page and moronic Obamatons still won't see what a waste of 5 years this president has been. 

 

Even so, more bang for the buck compared to the $992 million flushed down the toilet on the 2012 Romney campaign...

 

I think I predicted this response



#54 Saorsa

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:53 PM

I think a lot of those millions have gone to the advertising and spinning the site in social media and not actual development of a sound product.

 

That's certainly what the direct evidence shows.

 

Something as fucked up as this doesn't get fixed with a little overtime in off peak hours.

 

I posted the link to the contracts. The $643 million was to the software contractor.

 

No, the contract was for Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services which would be  a lot more than a website.  Leased space, call centers, telecom and other operating expenses, etc.

 

Since it says medicare and medicaid services it may only have limited bearing on the ACA.



#55 Happy Jack

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:59 PM

 

I think a lot of those millions have gone to the advertising and spinning the site in social media and not actual development of a sound product.

 

That's certainly what the direct evidence shows.

 

Something as fucked up as this doesn't get fixed with a little overtime in off peak hours.

 

I posted the link to the contracts. The $643 million was to the software contractor.

 

No, the contract was for Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services which would be  a lot more than a website.  Leased space, call centers, telecom and other operating expenses, etc.

 

Since it says medicare and medicaid services it may only have limited bearing on the ACA.

 

It's what they have spent getting the ACA web site online. 



#56 Spatial Ed

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:19 PM

Jack, just went the Floridah site.  Working swimmingly.  What's your problem dude?



#57 d'ranger

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:37 PM

This is the new Birth Certificate Egypt Muslim Brotherhood Benghazi Syria's Red Line WWII Vets Parks hey, look, something shiny!



#58 Spatial Ed

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:39 PM

It plays well on Drudge.



#59 Bus Driver

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:32 PM

 

 

 

Fun watching the True Believers try to deflect this one.

Romney!!!!

Halliburton!!!!!

 

C'mon, guys, why not make it Bush's fault?

 

I am wondering if, when the next GOP President is elected, folks here will be able to refrain from blaming Obama.

 

About as much as the democrats stopped blaming Bush after the election.

 

As far as the ACA is concerned, they are covered.

 

Ah, but will they be able to handle the mocking and derision when folks point out their hypocrisy?

I suspect they are used to that.

 

Still, I think it will be comical to see it happen.



#60 Bus Driver

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:35 PM

BTW, just went to the Maryland site.  Worked like a charm.

 

What's all the fuss about it being f*cked?



#61 LenP

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:42 PM

BTW, just went to the Maryland site.  Worked like a charm.
 
What's all the fuss about it being f*cked?


Beats me, CH had posted it was unusable for him, but he is not in md. I am assuming CH is not a tea party plant and that there are real problems.

#62 Spatial Ed

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:45 PM

BTW, just went to the Maryland site.  Worked like a charm.
 
What's all the fuss about it being f*cked?


Beats me, CH had posted it was unusable for him, but he is not in md. I am assuming CH is not a tea party plant and that there are real problems.

Who is CH?



#63 TMSAIL

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:46 PM

I think the problems are with the federal exchanges. Not the state ones. Could be wrong, but I know there are a lot of states that did not set up exchanges.

#64 Spatial Ed

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:49 PM

I dug a little on the site.  It did not look that bat to me.  But, I did not get in to the guts.  I'm not sure what issues there are other than many sites did not roll out as they should have.  I'm not ready to hang anyone over that yet.  The cost is high.

 

My major concern is the security side.  It wanted me to create a log-in and I did not want to give it any personal info.  I don't know if HIPAA standards were used.  I would think that they are.  I would hope they are.  Beyond that, did they vet the coders?  Did they pay someone neutral to try to hack the system?  Hell, they could have had the NSA have a run at it.  They use to hire some of the best security "specialists" around.  I wonder if the President even knew he had that card to play? Go behind the developers back, or even warn them first and see what it takes to take the site down.

I created a user id.  Standard stuff.  The only required fields where first name, last name, address, DOB, phone and user_id.  

 

SSN, email (why this wasn't required) were optional.

 

No HIPAA information.   You guys really need to be outraged about real issues.



I think the problems are with the federal exchanges. Not the state ones. Could be wrong, but I know there are a lot of states that did not set up exchanges.

There are no federal exchanges.



#65 LenP

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:50 PM

 

BTW, just went to the Maryland site.  Worked like a charm.
 
What's all the fuss about it being f*cked?


Beats me, CH had posted it was unusable for him, but he is not in md. I am assuming CH is not a tea party plant and that there are real problems.

Who is CH?

 

You new around here?



#66 TMSAIL

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:54 PM

http://www.cigna.com...rance-exchanges

A state may operate the Exchange on its own (a state-based Exchange), share operational functions with the federal government (a State Partnership Exchange) or allow the federal government to operate the Exchange within the state (a Federally-Facilitated Exchange).


I dug a little on the site.  It did not look that bat to me.  But, I did not get in to the guts.  I'm not sure what issues there are other than many sites did not roll out as they should have.  I'm not ready to hang anyone over that yet.  The cost is high.
 
My major concern is the security side.  It wanted me to create a log-in and I did not want to give it any personal info.  I don't know if HIPAA standards were used.  I would think that they are.  I would hope they are.  Beyond that, did they vet the coders?  Did they pay someone neutral to try to hack the system?  Hell, they could have had the NSA have a run at it.  They use to hire some of the best security "specialists" around.  I wonder if the President even knew he had that card to play? Go behind the developers back, or even warn them first and see what it takes to take the site down.

I created a user id.  Standard stuff.  The only required fields where first name, last name, address, DOB, phone and user_id.  
 
SSN, email (why this wasn't required) were optional.
 
No HIPAA information.   You guys really need to be outraged about real issues.

I think the problems are with the federal exchanges. Not the state ones. Could be wrong, but I know there are a lot of states that did not set up exchanges.

There are no federal exchanges.

What would you call the last option?

#67 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:00 AM

http://www.cigna.com...rance-exchanges

A state may operate the Exchange on its own (a state-based Exchange), share operational functions with the federal government (a State Partnership Exchange) or allow the federal government to operate the Exchange within the state (a Federally-Facilitated Exchange).
 

 


I dug a little on the site.  It did not look that bat to me.  But, I did not get in to the guts.  I'm not sure what issues there are other than many sites did not roll out as they should have.  I'm not ready to hang anyone over that yet.  The cost is high.
 
My major concern is the security side.  It wanted me to create a log-in and I did not want to give it any personal info.  I don't know if HIPAA standards were used.  I would think that they are.  I would hope they are.  Beyond that, did they vet the coders?  Did they pay someone neutral to try to hack the system?  Hell, they could have had the NSA have a run at it.  They use to hire some of the best security "specialists" around.  I wonder if the President even knew he had that card to play? Go behind the developers back, or even warn them first and see what it takes to take the site down.

I created a user id.  Standard stuff.  The only required fields where first name, last name, address, DOB, phone and user_id.  
 
SSN, email (why this wasn't required) were optional.
 
No HIPAA information.   You guys really need to be outraged about real issues.

I think the problems are with the federal exchanges. Not the state ones. Could be wrong, but I know there are a lot of states that did not set up exchanges.

ockquote> There are no federal exchanges.

What would you call the last option?

 

Can you give me that website?  I'll test it right now.



#68 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:01 AM

 

 

BTW, just went to the Maryland site.  Worked like a charm.
 
What's all the fuss about it being f*cked?


Beats me, CH had posted it was unusable for him, but he is not in md. I am assuming CH is not a tea party plant and that there are real problems.

Who is CH?

 

You new around here?

No joy, cannot connect CH to one of our brothers.



#69 TMSAIL

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:01 AM

Forbes : How Obamacare's Exchanges Turned Into A 'Third World Experience'


http://www.forbes.co...rld-experience/

Just for Ben:

All you need to know about the rollout of Obamacares subsidized insurance exchanges is that, so far, the toughest questions posed to the Obama administration have come from Comedy Central. Were going to do a challenge, Jon Stewart told Kathleen Sebelius on the Daily Show. Im going to try and download every movie ever made, and you are going to try and sign up for Obamacare, and well see which happens first.

#70 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:02 AM

Forbes : How Obamacare's Exchanges Turned Into A 'Third World Experience'


http://www.forbes.co...rld-experience/

Just for Ben:

All you need to know about the rollout of Obamacares subsidized insurance exchanges is that, so far, the toughest questions posed to the Obama administration have come from Comedy Central. Were going to do a challenge, Jon Stewart told Kathleen Sebelius on the Daily Show. Im going to try and download every movie ever made, and you are going to try and sign up for Obamacare, and well see which happens first.

Why change the topic.  Please post the link that I can get on the federal exchanges.



#71 TMSAIL

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:03 AM

http://www.cigna.com...rance-exchanges
A state may operate the Exchange on its own (a state-based Exchange), share operational functions with the federal government (a State Partnership Exchange) or allow the federal government to operate the Exchange within the state (a Federally-Facilitated Exchange).
 


 



I dug a little on the site.  It did not look that bat to me.  But, I did not get in to the guts.  I'm not sure what issues there are other than many sites did not roll out as they should have.  I'm not ready to hang anyone over that yet.  The cost is high.
 
My major concern is the security side.  It wanted me to create a log-in and I did not want to give it any personal info.  I don't know if HIPAA standards were used.  I would think that they are.  I would hope they are.  Beyond that, did they vet the coders?  Did they pay someone neutral to try to hack the system?  Hell, they could have had the NSA have a run at it.  They use to hire some of the best security "specialists" around.  I wonder if the President even knew he had that card to play? Go behind the developers back, or even warn them first and see what it takes to take the site down.

I created a user id.  Standard stuff.  The only required fields where first name, last name, address, DOB, phone and user_id.  
 
SSN, email (why this wasn't required) were optional.
 
No HIPAA information.   You guys really need to be outraged about real issues.

I think the problems are with the federal exchanges. Not the state ones. Could be wrong, but I know there are a lot of states that did not set up exchanges.
ockquote>
There are no federal exchanges.


What would you call the last option?
 
Can you give me that website?  I'll test it right now.

From the linked Forbes article

Less than 1% of applicants contain sufficient information

It gets worse. Even if you managed to create an account on healthcare.gov—a painstaking and time-consuming task to say the least—you’re not assured of actually being able to buy the plan you like. One insurer told Dan Mangan of CNBC that “about half” of the applications they’ve received are “corrupted” due to “incomplete data.”

#72 TMSAIL

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:04 AM

Forbes : How Obamacare's Exchanges Turned Into A 'Third World Experience'http://www.forbes.co...rld-experience/
Just for Ben:
All you need to know about the rollout of Obamacares subsidized insurance exchanges is that, so far, the toughest questions posed to the Obama administration have come from Comedy Central. Were going to do a challenge, Jon Stewart told Kathleen Sebelius on the Daily Show. Im going to try and download every movie ever made, and you are going to try and sign up for Obamacare, and well see which happens first.

Why change the topic.  Please post the link that I can get on the federal exchanges.

Forbes : How Obamacare's Exchanges Turned Into A 'Third World Experience'http://www.forbes.co...rld-experience/
Just for Ben:
All you need to know about the rollout of Obamacares subsidized insurance exchanges is that, so far, the toughest questions posed to the Obama administration have come from Comedy Central. Were going to do a challenge, Jon Stewart told Kathleen Sebelius on the Daily Show. Im going to try and download every movie ever made, and you are going to try and sign up for Obamacare, and well see which happens first.

Why change the topic.  Please post the link that I can get on the federal exchanges.
. You changed the "topic" from the cost of the website. To it's working fine. Pot to kettle.

#73 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:07 AM

Funny, the subject of this thread was we paid $600,000,000 for a website that doesn't work.  But it works.

This is just like BENGHAZI!



#74 TMSAIL

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:18 AM

Funny, the subject of this thread was we paid $600,000,000 for a website that doesn't work.  But it works.
This is just like BENGHAZI!


So Forbes and the rest of those reporting the problems, plus tens of thousands of complaints on the Obamacare Facebook page are wrong or deliberately lying? That some guy who calls himself spatial ed on a sailing site knows better. LOL

#75 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:19 AM

Funny, the subject of this thread was we paid $600,000,000 for a website that doesn't work.  But it works.
This is just like BENGHAZI!


So Forbes and the rest of those reporting the problems, plus tens of thousands of complaints on the Obamacare Facebook page are wrong or deliberately lying? That some guy who calls himself spatial ed on a sailing site knows better. LOL

If you could provide us the federal exchange website url, we could verify it for ourselves.  Got link?



#76 LenP

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:20 AM


 


 


BTW, just went to the Maryland site.  Worked like a charm.
 
What's all the fuss about it being f*cked?


Beats me, CH had posted it was unusable for him, but he is not in md. I am assuming CH is not a tea party plant and that there are real problems.
Who is CH?
 
You new around here?
No joy, cannot connect CH to one of our brothers.

Clove Hitch

#77 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:24 AM


Clove Hitch

Dooh!  He hasn't responded to this thread.

I do remember there was some issue with him trying to register with the 300 million Americans trying to sign up with the ACA on day one.  But that seems to have been resolved.  So what is the issue now?



#78 LenP

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:34 AM


Clove Hitch

Dooh!  He hasn't responded to this thread.
I do remember there was some issue with him trying to register with the 300 million Americans trying to sign up with the ACA on day one.  But that seems to have been resolved.  So what is the issue now?

300 million? Your numbers are way off. Not everyone was trying to buy insurance the same day, and many states including the most populous had their own exchange and were unaffected by the problems with the fed site and software. I have no idea whether the issues which were real have been resolved. I will read about it when I can get real data and technical explanations. I a, strictly interested from a professional and technical standpoint. If they have been able to fix it in the days since the launch, then I would want the head of the guy who needed 7 more days, when they had 700, to have it done right on a pike. But hey that is just me, I abhor failure. If there are still problems and they are masked by lower traffic now, we very well may see another episode of fail as the mandate kicks in at year end. Either way, it is interesting as a case study in what not to do.

#79 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:45 AM

 


Clove Hitch

Dooh!  He hasn't responded to this thread.
I do remember there was some issue with him trying to register with the 300 million Americans trying to sign up with the ACA on day one.  But that seems to have been resolved.  So what is the issue now?

300 million? Your numbers are way off. Not everyone was trying to buy insurance the same day, and many states including the most populous had their own exchange and were unaffected by the problems with the fed site and software. I have no idea whether the issues which were real have been resolved. I will read about it when I can get real data and technical explanations. I a, strictly interested from a professional and technical standpoint. If they have been able to fix it in the days since the launch, then I would want the head of the guy who needed 7 more days, when they had 700, to have it done right on a pike. But hey that is just me, I abhor failure. If there are still problems and they are masked by lower traffic now, we very well may see another episode of fail as the mandate kicks in at year end. Either way, it is interesting as a case study in what not to do.

Well, all I can say is the websites have been able to handle the traffic today.   I just don't understand what everyone is complaining about.



#80 Regatta Dog

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:12 AM

 

 


Clove Hitch

Dooh!  He hasn't responded to this thread.
I do remember there was some issue with him trying to register with the 300 million Americans trying to sign up with the ACA on day one.  But that seems to have been resolved.  So what is the issue now?

300 million? Your numbers are way off. Not everyone was trying to buy insurance the same day, and many states including the most populous had their own exchange and were unaffected by the problems with the fed site and software. I have no idea whether the issues which were real have been resolved. I will read about it when I can get real data and technical explanations. I a, strictly interested from a professional and technical standpoint. If they have been able to fix it in the days since the launch, then I would want the head of the guy who needed 7 more days, when they had 700, to have it done right on a pike. But hey that is just me, I abhor failure. If there are still problems and they are masked by lower traffic now, we very well may see another episode of fail as the mandate kicks in at year end. Either way, it is interesting as a case study in what not to do.

Well, all I can say is the websites have been able to handle the traffic today.   I just don't understand what everyone is complaining about.

 

The Fed had 3 years, spent over $600 million and for the grand opening they released a beta version that sucked.  I'm glad they are getting the problems worked out, but apperently as part of theat $600 million they didn't build in a simple report feature to track how many people actually sign up.  

 

If you paid $150,000 for a Kia subcompact, you'd probably have a minimum expectation that you'd be able to drive it off the GD lot.

 

If people like you want more Gov't control foisted on us, you might want to exert some pressure on your pals in DC to at least do it without looking like the Keystone Cops.



#81 LenP

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:13 AM


 



Clove Hitch

Dooh!  He hasn't responded to this thread.
I do remember there was some issue with him trying to register with the 300 million Americans trying to sign up with the ACA on day one.  But that seems to have been resolved.  So what is the issue now?

300 million? Your numbers are way off. Not everyone was trying to buy insurance the same day, and many states including the most populous had their own exchange and were unaffected by the problems with the fed site and software. I have no idea whether the issues which were real have been resolved. I will read about it when I can get real data and technical explanations. I a, strictly interested from a professional and technical standpoint. If they have been able to fix it in the days since the launch, then I would want the head of the guy who needed 7 more days, when they had 700, to have it done right on a pike. But hey that is just me, I abhor failure. If there are still problems and they are masked by lower traffic now, we very well may see another episode of fail as the mandate kicks in at year end. Either way, it is interesting as a case study in what not to do.
Well, all I can say is the websites have been able to handle the traffic today.   I just don't understand what everyone is complaining about.

Dunno, ask ch if he was ever able to get all the way through. Just seeing the homepage and initial signup may not be where the problems are, or you may be hitting states that have working systems as opposed to the fed one. I know you are jaut itching to use some more Benghazi lines, but there was a real fuck up here. Not a conspiracy, but a very real fuck up, and I think it entirely appropriate to question the project and technology given its initial failure. I don't think it is worthy of a congressional investigation, but it would be nice if someone admitted there was a fuckup and promised a post mortem. The problem is that everyone wants to turn each issue into someone's Waterloo or another Benghazi, when we all really should be caring about the govt doing right by us and being run well and efficiently. You might think it is just the tea parties chasing shiny objects, but you are too. They have the tea partyers chasing Benghazi and you chasing the tea partyers. Meanwhile, there are real failures of govt we should be asking about. I did not stop asking just cause he guy I voted for won, if anything I have a higher expectation of the ones I vote for, they truly are representing me.

#82 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:16 AM

Where do I sign up for federal Obamacare?  Links please.



#83 Saorsa

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:52 AM

 

 

I think a lot of those millions have gone to the advertising and spinning the site in social media and not actual development of a sound product.

 

That's certainly what the direct evidence shows.

 

Something as fucked up as this doesn't get fixed with a little overtime in off peak hours.

 

I posted the link to the contracts. The $643 million was to the software contractor.

 

No, the contract was for Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services which would be  a lot more than a website.  Leased space, call centers, telecom and other operating expenses, etc.

 

Since it says medicare and medicaid services it may only have limited bearing on the ACA.

 

It's what they have spent getting the ACA web site online. 

 

Not according to your cite.



#84 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:59 AM

Any links to these down sites?

#85 Mike G

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:54 AM

Any links to these down sites?



Happy Jack clearly stated that it was a "non functional web page"
I have no need to verify that for myself, as he's a name that can be trusted.
You must be doing something wrong.

#86 Regatta Dog

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 11:43 AM

to show some scale, and not saying they didn't fuck this up, but my little project at work has been $150M over 4 years, 57000 users, and we have significant issues due to integration with legacy systems.  This shit is hard.  Not impossible, and good design goes a long way, but it aint either easy, or cheap.

 

I don't know what the business logic it is that you are encapsulating, but that sounds like a piss poor execution. It is not that hard. Hard yes, but not 4 years and 150million hard.

 

Many of the state exchanges appear to have been launched on time without any glitches at all.  Wouldn't those exchanges also require integration with the same legacy systems (IRS, DHS, SSA) as the federal exchange?



#87 LenP

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:04 PM

 

to show some scale, and not saying they didn't fuck this up, but my little project at work has been $150M over 4 years, 57000 users, and we have significant issues due to integration with legacy systems.  This shit is hard.  Not impossible, and good design goes a long way, but it aint either easy, or cheap.

 

I don't know what the business logic it is that you are encapsulating, but that sounds like a piss poor execution. It is not that hard. Hard yes, but not 4 years and 150million hard.

 

Many of the state exchanges appear to have been launched on time without any glitches at all.  Wouldn't those exchanges also require integration with the same legacy systems (IRS, DHS, SSA) as the federal exchange?

 

Yes, but probably not all of the same ones. Each state would only have to support the people and insurers within their state. I would bet that CA is nearly as complex as the full Fed one, but that is just speculation. I could be wrong on it. So the states face the same types of issues, but a subset of the ones the feds dealt with. The other thing is that they decided they wanted to do more than offer web based functionality to each state, so they seem to have built an API which would allow states to access the complex functionality encapsulated in the fed site, but with their own workflow and presentation. That is something the states did not do. An API is a great idea if it is needed and if people will use it, however it does add effort and complexity, and if nobody is going to use it, probably could have been left off the spec and lowered their risk of failure. Disclaimer, I am basing this off news reports which could be totally wrong, I have not looked at the code. Assuming the news reports thus far are correct, it still appears to me they were more concerned with doing the cool thing they could brag about, then building something that met the requirements and worked on day 1. People who do that are a pet peeve of mine, it drives me nuts. It makes my industry look less like engineers and more like witch doctors. If someone opened up a new office building and the first day all the toilets overflowed with sewage running in the hallways, nobody would say "things like this happen and they are working out the bugs". I don't think we should accept mediocrity from software either.



#88 Turd Sandwich

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:23 PM

Fun watching the True Believers try to deflect this one.

Romney!!!!

Halliburton!!!!!

 

C'mon, guys, why not make it Bush's fault?

 

I am wondering if, when the next GOP President is elected, folks here will be able to refrain from blaming Obama.

Not a chance in hell



#89 Happy Jack

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:37 PM

 

Fun watching the True Believers try to deflect this one.

Romney!!!!

Halliburton!!!!!

 

C'mon, guys, why not make it Bush's fault?

 

I am wondering if, when the next GOP President is elected, folks here will be able to refrain from blaming Obama.

Not a chance in hell

 

You asked the wrong question. The correct question is will the next Republican President blame the previous Democrat for every little thing that goes wrong?  

 

The answer, if he/she is has as much class as George Bush, is no.



#90 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:45 PM

Next republican president, you're funny.

#91 Regatta Dog

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:04 PM

 

 

to show some scale, and not saying they didn't fuck this up, but my little project at work has been $150M over 4 years, 57000 users, and we have significant issues due to integration with legacy systems.  This shit is hard.  Not impossible, and good design goes a long way, but it aint either easy, or cheap.

 

I don't know what the business logic it is that you are encapsulating, but that sounds like a piss poor execution. It is not that hard. Hard yes, but not 4 years and 150million hard.

 

Many of the state exchanges appear to have been launched on time without any glitches at all.  Wouldn't those exchanges also require integration with the same legacy systems (IRS, DHS, SSA) as the federal exchange?

 

Yes, but probably not all of the same ones. Each state would only have to support the people and insurers within their state. I would bet that CA is nearly as complex as the full Fed one, but that is just speculation. I could be wrong on it. So the states face the same types of issues, but a subset of the ones the feds dealt with. The other thing is that they decided they wanted to do more than offer web based functionality to each state, so they seem to have built an API which would allow states to access the complex functionality encapsulated in the fed site, but with their own workflow and presentation. That is something the states did not do. An API is a great idea if it is needed and if people will use it, however it does add effort and complexity, and if nobody is going to use it, probably could have been left off the spec and lowered their risk of failure. Disclaimer, I am basing this off news reports which could be totally wrong, I have not looked at the code. Assuming the news reports thus far are correct, it still appears to me they were more concerned with doing the cool thing they could brag about, then building something that met the requirements and worked on day 1. People who do that are a pet peeve of mine, it drives me nuts. It makes my industry look less like engineers and more like witch doctors. If someone opened up a new office building and the first day all the toilets overflowed with sewage running in the hallways, nobody would say "things like this happen and they are working out the bugs". I don't think we should accept mediocrity from software either.

 

Thanks for your insights.

 

Here's my take assuming I was a supporter of Obamacare.  If the goal is to get at least 7 million signed up and on-line exchanges are the main avenue for acheiving that goal, I would want to make sure that signing up was as user friendly as possible from day one.  The failure of the fed exchange may have discouraged thousands whio tried to sign up from doing so and the bad press may have discouraged many thousands more from even attempting to sign up.

 

It was a very poor decision to not delay the launch, and I agree with you that no business would ever get away with such a travesty.  This is not a business, however, where one has to woo customers who have other choices.  If people who don't have insurance fail to sign up, they are breaking the law. 



#92 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:09 PM

It's a mandate, you have no choice. So you couldn't sign up day one, today you can. Websites are working swimmingly.

#93 LenP

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:16 PM

 

 

 

to show some scale, and not saying they didn't fuck this up, but my little project at work has been $150M over 4 years, 57000 users, and we have significant issues due to integration with legacy systems.  This shit is hard.  Not impossible, and good design goes a long way, but it aint either easy, or cheap.

 

I don't know what the business logic it is that you are encapsulating, but that sounds like a piss poor execution. It is not that hard. Hard yes, but not 4 years and 150million hard.

 

Many of the state exchanges appear to have been launched on time without any glitches at all.  Wouldn't those exchanges also require integration with the same legacy systems (IRS, DHS, SSA) as the federal exchange?

 

Yes, but probably not all of the same ones. Each state would only have to support the people and insurers within their state. I would bet that CA is nearly as complex as the full Fed one, but that is just speculation. I could be wrong on it. So the states face the same types of issues, but a subset of the ones the feds dealt with. The other thing is that they decided they wanted to do more than offer web based functionality to each state, so they seem to have built an API which would allow states to access the complex functionality encapsulated in the fed site, but with their own workflow and presentation. That is something the states did not do. An API is a great idea if it is needed and if people will use it, however it does add effort and complexity, and if nobody is going to use it, probably could have been left off the spec and lowered their risk of failure. Disclaimer, I am basing this off news reports which could be totally wrong, I have not looked at the code. Assuming the news reports thus far are correct, it still appears to me they were more concerned with doing the cool thing they could brag about, then building something that met the requirements and worked on day 1. People who do that are a pet peeve of mine, it drives me nuts. It makes my industry look less like engineers and more like witch doctors. If someone opened up a new office building and the first day all the toilets overflowed with sewage running in the hallways, nobody would say "things like this happen and they are working out the bugs". I don't think we should accept mediocrity from software either.

 

Thanks for your insights.

 

Here's my take assuming I was a supporter of Obamacare.  If the goal is to get at least 7 million signed up and on-line exchanges are the main avenue for acheiving that goal, I would want to make sure that signing up was as user friendly as possible from day one.  The failure of the fed exchange may have discouraged thousands whio tried to sign up from doing so and the bad press may have discouraged many thousands more from even attempting to sign up.

 

It was a very poor decision to not delay the launch, and I agree with you that no business would ever get away with such a travesty.  This is not a business, however, where one has to woo customers who have other choices.  If people who don't have insurance fail to sign up, they are breaking the law. 

 

Basically, but there is the mandate too. In general, once you have lost the confidence or interest of a user, it is hard to get either one back. The difference here of course is the mandate which kicks in at year end. Again, just speculating, but it is possible that you had a lot of people anticipating the exchanges coming online, and so had an initial rush on the sites. Now that there were so many problems, people have gone off and are doing other things so the traffic drops way down. The question is do a lot of those users then need to come back by year end, and if they are like most folks and procrastinate, will they all rush in over the holiday week and create a second wave of failure. Without access to their traffic usage and analysis of the failure points, it is just speculation though. Either way, if it was my project, I would be horribly embarrassed right now.



#94 Regatta Dog

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:16 PM

It's a mandate, you have no choice. So you couldn't sign up day one, today you can. Websites are working swimmingly.

 

Why am I not surprised that you are championing mediocrity?

 

We get it, Ed.  The website is now working.  Kudos to Obama and his team on $600,000,000 + well spent.



#95 LenP

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:18 PM

It's a mandate, you have no choice. So you couldn't sign up day one, today you can. Websites are working swimmingly.

 

Didn't you claim to be an IT guy before? Would you accept people working for you delivering a high profile project at the last minute and broken?



#96 TMSAIL

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:21 PM

Heard that a reporter in Atlanta spent 8 hrs signing up. I guess Ed has a different standard on the definition of working.

http://www.theblaze....ely-successful/

Funny how we haven't heard very much about how many people have signed up. I heard 8 in Iowa and 6 in Wisconsin. I'm being serious on those numbers

#97 Regatta Dog

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:29 PM

Heard that a reporter in Atlanta spent 8 hrs signing up. I guess Ed has a different standard on the definition of working.

http://www.theblaze....ely-successful/

Funny how we haven't heard very much about how many people have signed up. I heard 8 in Iowa and 6 in Wisconsin. I'm being serious on those numbers

 

 

Appaerntly, The Mail has better sources than the US media--

 

 

EXCLUSIVE: Just 51,000 people completed Obamacare applications during the website's first week, out of tens of millions of Americans in 36 states

 

Just 51,000 people completed Obamacare applications during the first week the Healthcare.gov website was online, according to two sources inside the Department of Health and Human Services who gave MailOnline an exclusive look at the earliest enrollment numbers.

 

The career civil servants, who process data inside the agency, confirmed independently that just 6,200 Americans applied for health insurance through the problem-plagued website on October 1, the day it first opened to the public.

 

Neither HHS nor the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services would comment on the record about the numbers. Enroll America, the president's organization of health care 'navigators' who are charged with helping Americans sign up, didn't reply to a request for information about its level of success so far.

 

The White House also did not respond to emails seeking comment.

 

But several administration officials have claimed this month that they didn't have access to the kinds of raw figures MailOnline obtained from the people who work for them. And the anemic totals suggest a far lower level of interest in coverage through the Affordable Care Act than the Obama administration has hoped to see.  (More - Link)


 

 



#98 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:31 PM

It's a mandate, you have no choice. So you couldn't sign up day one, today you can. Websites are working swimmingly.

 

Didn't you claim to be an IT guy before? Would you accept people working for you delivering a high profile project at the last minute and broken?

I would be suspicious of denial of service attacks from folks like Happy Jack.



#99 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:36 PM

Heard that a reporter in Atlanta spent 8 hrs signing up. I guess Ed has a different standard on the definition of working.

http://www.theblaze....ely-successful/

Funny how we haven't heard very much about how many people have signed up. I heard 8 in Iowa and 6 in Wisconsin. I'm being serious on those numbers

The Blaze?  I knew you were a Glenn Beck fan boy.



#100 LenP

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:36 PM

 

It's a mandate, you have no choice. So you couldn't sign up day one, today you can. Websites are working swimmingly.

 

Didn't you claim to be an IT guy before? Would you accept people working for you delivering a high profile project at the last minute and broken?

I would be suspicious of denial of service attacks from folks like Happy Jack.

 

DDOS would have taken the site offline, not created bottlenecks and failure at the backend of the signup and purchase process.






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