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What if we Default and Have Hyperinflation?


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#1 badlatitude

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:39 PM

Well we’ve heard it is possible and even so, many refuse to believe it will happen. But what if it does? Are you and your family ready for hyperinflation? You have just 7 days to prepare.

 

  1. Pay off any debt that has an adjustable interest rate. You can expect rates on credit cards to rise dramatically to becoming worthless within days.
  2. If you have stock market investments talk to your broker.
  3. Keep 25% of liquid assets in a foreign country. I recommend Canada.
  4. Cash.
  5. Stock up on food and medical supplies. At least a three month supply.
  6. Evaluate your transportation. Fuel prices will skyrocket.
  7. A small amount of Gold or Silver for trade. I have 1/10 oz gold coins and Morgan Silver dollars.
  8. Barter items. Alcohol, tobacco, batteries, ammo, matches and disposable lighters.
  9. Personal protection. Handguns, rifles, knives, etc.
  10. Generator
  11. If you live in a high crime area consider moving until the problem subsides.

I’m sure many of you will continue to insist that nothing will happen and I truly hope that you are correct. On the other hand, you only get one chance to do right by your family, the choice is completely yours.



#2 TheFlash

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:42 PM

cash won't help in a hyperinflation market. You need a foreign currency. Euro, Yuan, etc.

 

Oh, and I suppose get a wheelbarrow to carry your cash.



#3 Spatial Ed

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:45 PM

I suggest renewable resources to barter with.  I'm building a chicken coop.



#4 Dog

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:45 PM

Duct tape.



#5 TheFlash

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 08:46 PM

+1.  Always a good call.



#6 One of Five

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:27 PM

badlat are you really all that concerned? 

 

If so, think of cash being worthless... whatcha got to trade? 



#7 jetboy

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:28 PM

We won't see hyper inflation.  Remember when the USA credit rating took a hit?  And interest rates... dropped?

 

The US dollar is still safer than any other currency.  Even with a default.  So value will still flow into the dollar even though it may be the cause of instability. 



#8 One of Five

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 09:30 PM

very true. No matter what, we look awesome compared to Europe. At least we have that. 



#9 Battlecheese

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:18 PM

We won't see hyper inflation.  Remember when the USA credit rating took a hit?  And interest rates... dropped?
 
The US dollar is still safer than any other currency.  Even with a default.  So value will still flow into the dollar even though it may be the cause of instability.

Ok. Just a tip. The Fed is buying most of your debt, so I wouldn't get too relaxed about those interest rates if I were you.

#10 One of Five

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:21 PM

Cool - high interest rates and an expansionary monetary policy... that's going to turn out well. 



#11 LenP

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:46 PM

If the US goes in the toilet, the whole world will go even deeper in the toilet. There would be no safe haven, and no safe investments. The only thing of use to you would be your knowledge, skills, and the tools you can carry with you, even then you would probably die. But hey if you wanna believe there is a way to prepare for things like that, may I suggest the show preppers on natgeo.



#12 VwaP

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:47 PM

Hoarding Coffee the next few days, im setting up in front of the closed Starbucks. No cash barter only.

#13 tikipete

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:51 PM

I's planning on becoming a cannibal myself.



#14 LenP

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:04 PM

I's planning on becoming a cannibal myself.

 

Don't eat the long pigs on vespas down there. They cause agita.



#15 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:04 AM

I's planning on becoming a cannibal myself.

Teabaggers are greasy.  Go for the vegetarians, their meat is succulent. 



#16 LenP

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:23 AM

I's planning on becoming a cannibal myself.

Teabaggers are greasy.  Go for the vegetarians, their meat is succulent. 

And they put up less of a fight.

#17 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:25 AM

 

I's planning on becoming a cannibal myself.

Teabaggers are greasy.  Go for the vegetarians, their meat is succulent. 

And they put up less of a fight.

Doubtful.  You try pinching one off at Whole Foods for the last kale bunch and see how you fair.



#18 mikeys clone no1

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:03 AM

the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.



#19 LenP

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:19 AM

the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.


For how long? Ammo runs out and guns become useless.

#20 Mark K

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:28 AM

If you haven't charted out the location of Mormons in your area, you haven't been serious, and have probably been just prepping-yourself-off. 



#21 mikeys clone no1

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:30 AM

the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.


For how long? Ammo runs out and guns become useless.

but you can use your ammo and guns to get more ammo and guns. i am sure it's been done before.



#22 LenP

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:34 AM

If you haven't charted out the location of Mormons in your area, you haven't been serious, and have probably been just prepping-yourself-off. 


Seems like half the nuts on that preppers show are Mormons, I don't get it.

#23 LenP

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:37 AM


the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.


For how long? Ammo runs out and guns become useless.
but you can use your ammo and guns to get more ammo and guns. i am sure it's been done before.

It would still run out, and there are always going to be ores with more guns and ammo. Really, this whole discussion is silly. Like asking how would you survive an attack or Martian invaders. The idea that the us economy is going to collapse is only slightly less far fetched than the Martian invader thing.

#24 badlatitude

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:59 AM

Some of the most recognizable names in American economics are referenced in this Bloomberg article, I suggest everyone take a moment and read it.

 

http://www.bloomberg...man-s-fall.html



#25 mikeys clone no1

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:09 AM

 

 


the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.


For how long? Ammo runs out and guns become useless.
but you can use your ammo and guns to get more ammo and guns. i am sure it's been done before.

It would still run out, and there are always going to be ores with more guns and ammo. Really, this whole discussion is silly. Like asking how would you survive an attack or Martian invaders. The idea that the us economy is going to collapse is only slightly less far fetched than the Martian invader thing.

i am glad that you have an understanding of the "arms race" conundrum. yes, it is silly. 

 

as for the dire economic position that the us finds itself in. i won't lose any sleep over it. actually, i don't think anyone should lose any sleep over it.



#26 TheFlash

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:12 AM

It's part of their belief system. I believe they are taught to have a full year reserve of foods and some cash too.  

 

I actually buy food-safe buckets from one of their websites for use in making beer and wine. Might be blasphemous, but they are good prices.



#27 Happy Jack

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:24 AM

Well we’ve heard it is possible and even so, many refuse to believe it will happen. But what if it does? Are you and your family ready for hyperinflation? You have just 7 days to prepare.

 

  1. Pay off any debt that has an adjustable interest rate. You can expect rates on credit cards to rise dramatically to becoming worthless within days.
  2. If you have stock market investments talk to your broker.
  3. Keep 25% of liquid assets in a foreign country. I recommend Canada.
  4. Cash.
  5. Stock up on food and medical supplies. At least a three month supply.
  6. Evaluate your transportation. Fuel prices will skyrocket.
  7. A small amount of Gold or Silver for trade. I have 1/10 oz gold coins and Morgan Silver dollars.
  8. Barter items. Alcohol, tobacco, batteries, ammo, matches and disposable lighters.
  9. Personal protection. Handguns, rifles, knives, etc.
  10. Generator
  11. If you live in a high crime area consider moving until the problem subsides.

I’m sure many of you will continue to insist that nothing will happen and I truly hope that you are correct. On the other hand, you only get one chance to do right by your family, the choice is completely yours.

 

You do realize that our tax receipts are considerably more that the interest on the debt? The only way we default is the President orders the treasury not to pay and that would be unconstitutional.

 

14th Amendment Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

 

From Forbes

 

Reaching the debt ceiling does not mean that the government will default on the outstanding government debt. In fact, the U.S. Constitution forbids defaulting on the debt (14th Amendment, Section 4), so the government is not allowed to default even if it wanted to.

 

In reality, if the debt ceiling is not raised in the next two weeks, the government will actually have to prioritize its expenses and keep its monthly, weekly, and daily spending under the revenue the government collects. In simple terms, the government would have to spend an amount less than or equal to what it earns. Just like ordinary Americans have to do in their everyday lives.

 

Once the reality of what hitting the debt ceiling means is understood, the important question is: can the government actually live with a balanced budget? How much money could it spend? Could enough spending be cut to live within a balanced budget? The answer is yes, the federal government could live with a balanced budget. Below I will show you precisely how.

 

The federal government estimates it will collect almost $3 trillion in revenue for the fiscal year that runs from October 1, 2013 until September 30, 2014. 

 

 the interest on the national debt will be less than $240 billion.

 

 

So stop the default BS. You sound like that idiot we have for a president.


Edited by Happy Jack, 11 October 2013 - 02:27 AM.


#28 Spatial Ed

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:35 AM

If you haven't charted out the location of Mormons in your area, you haven't been serious, and have probably been just prepping-yourself-off. 


Seems like half the nuts on that preppers show are Mormons, I don't get it.
Combine conservative values with a belief in the second coming, you have a target rich environment for food and ammo. ,

#29 badlatitude

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:41 AM

I'm afraid you've got the 14th Amendment wrong. The 14th does not authorize new debt to raise cash to retire maturing debt. If the money is not there no one gets paid and the markets will trigger a default anyway because they will not recognize an untested fix. You need credit, debt, and money to grow an economy anyone thinking otherwise is deluded.



#30 Saorsa

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:48 AM

the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.

 

What?  Advertise your position and availability of food?  Snares are better.  I can catch some decent triple tail out the back door.



#31 jerseyguy

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:58 AM

I'm going to buy a case of tinfoil rather than my usual 75' roll.  Should be enough to protect the ceilings in my house as well as my kids.  I'm good.

 

B)



#32 mikeys clone no1

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 04:16 AM


the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.


 
What?  Advertise your position and availability of food?  Snares are better.  I can catch some decent triple tail out the back door.

Triple tail? Sometimes I question my sanity with just one!

#33 HardOnWind

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 07:39 AM

Then the savings of wealthy people will be worth less. That's why the Koch Brothers shit their pants and told the Tea Party to knock it off.

#34 GRUMPY

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:27 AM

Well we’ve heard it is possible and even so, many refuse to believe it will happen. But what if it does? Are you and your family ready for hyperinflation? You have just 7 days to prepare.

 

  1. Pay off any debt that has an adjustable interest rate. You can expect rates on credit cards to rise dramatically to becoming worthless within days.
  2. If you have stock market investments talk to your broker.
  3. Keep 25% of liquid assets in a foreign country. I recommend Canada.
  4. Cash.
  5. Stock up on food and medical supplies. At least a three month supply.
  6. Evaluate your transportation. Fuel prices will skyrocket.
  7. A small amount of Gold or Silver for trade. I have 1/10 oz gold coins and Morgan Silver dollars.
  8. Barter items. Alcohol, tobacco, batteries, ammo, matches and disposable lighters.
  9. Personal protection. Handguns, rifles, knives, etc.
  10. Generator
  11. If you live in a high crime area consider moving until the problem subsides.

I’m sure many of you will continue to insist that nothing will happen and I truly hope that you are correct. On the other hand, you only get one chance to do right by your family, the choice is completely yours.

 

IMAGINE!!

 

You're a fookin idiot.



#35 Happy Jack

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:08 AM

I'm afraid you've got the 14th Amendment wrong. The 14th does not authorize new debt to raise cash to retire maturing debt. If the money is not there no one gets paid and the markets will trigger a default anyway because they will not recognize an untested fix. You need credit, debt, and money to grow an economy anyone thinking otherwise is deluded.

 

What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed. 

 

Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?



#36 Happy Jack

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:12 AM

I'm going to buy a case of tinfoil rather than my usual 75' roll.  Should be enough to protect the ceilings in my house as well as my kids.  I'm good.

 

B)

23ruvk8.jpg



#37 tuk tuk joe

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:47 AM


Well weve heard it is possible and even so, many refuse to believe it will happen. But what if it does? Are you and your family ready for hyperinflation? You have just 7 days to prepare.
 

  • Pay off any debt that has an adjustable interest rate. You can expect rates on credit cards to rise dramatically to becoming worthless within days.
  • If you have stock market investments talk to your broker.
  • Keep 25% of liquid assets in a foreign country. I recommend Canada.
  • Cash.
  • Stock up on food and medical supplies. At least a three month supply.
  • Evaluate your transportation. Fuel prices will skyrocket.
  • A small amount of Gold or Silver for trade. I have 1/10 oz gold coins and Morgan Silver dollars.
  • Barter items. Alcohol, tobacco, batteries, ammo, matches and disposable lighters.
  • Personal protection. Handguns, rifles, knives, etc.
  • Generator
  • If you live in a high crime area consider moving until the problem subsides.
Im sure many of you will continue to insist that nothing will happen and I truly hope that you are correct. On the other hand, you only get one chance to do right by your family, the choice is completely yours.
 
IMAGINE!!
 
You're a fookin idiot.

+1

#38 Happy Jack

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:56 AM

Well we’ve heard it is possible and even so, many refuse to believe it will happen. But what if it does? Are you and your family ready for hyperinflation? You have just 7 days to prepare.

 

  1. Pay off any debt that has an adjustable interest rate. You can expect rates on credit cards to rise dramatically to becoming worthless within days. Debt free since the cradle - Check
  2. If you have stock market investments talk to your broker. Got it covered - Check
  3. Keep 25% of liquid assets in a foreign country. I recommend Canada. Canadian Passport and Vacation Home in BC - Check
  4. Cash. Check
  5. Stock up on food and medical supplies. At least a three month supply. One Year- Duh
  6. Evaluate your transportation. Fuel prices will skyrocket. 600 gals on the farm at all times
  7. A small amount of Gold or Silver for trade. I have 1/10 oz gold coins and Morgan Silver dollars. Check but I prefer the 1/4 oz Canadian Gold Maple Leaf Coins
  8. Barter items. Alcohol, tobacco, batteries, ammo, matches and disposable lighters. Alcohol is a stupid barter item  
  9. Personal protection. Handguns, rifles, knives, etc. Check and double check
  10. Generator Several plus solar farm -  check
  11. If you live in a high crime area consider moving until the problem subsides. N/A

 

Plus we are on the border of http://www.deseretra...om/welcome.html . We will eat well when it hits the fan.



#39 Happy Jack

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 11:44 AM

Some of the most recognizable names in American economics are referenced in this Bloomberg article, I suggest everyone take a moment and read it.

 

http://www.bloomberg...man-s-fall.html

 

Sorry but your credit has expired.

 

3097oex.jpg



#40 zzrider

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:01 PM

Good god Badlat, go wash the sand out of your vagina.   Don't worry, nobody is going to take away your next hit of crystal debth.

 

The "Republicans" want to raise the debt ceiling just as much as the "Democrats", they're just trying to figure out a way to keep their retarded voting constituency on the hook.  You see, Washington absolutely needs to maintain this phony facade of a "two-party" system. 

 

This latest scene of political theater has been particularly hard on Bad-Cop "republicans", and the Democrats sorely need them to hold their House majority (or at least a plausibly obstructionist-looking minority) in the next election.  Without this phony act, our ruling political caste will have nobody to blame and no way to deflect attention from the absolute ass-fucking they are laying down on all of us stupid voters.

 

So don't worry, stupid peasant.  The curtain will soon drop on this scene.  The debt limit will be raised (again), Obamacare will be fully funded, and Yellen will continue Bernanke's legacy of destroying our purchasing power so she can continue propping up this sham of a stock "market" and buying our crap debt that nobody else wants.

 

 

And in another 9 months or so, we'll be back here AGAIN, having the same damn argument about raising the debt ceiling AGAIN, and fucking idiots like you will still have learned absolutely nothing.



#41 Happy Jack

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:21 PM

Good god Badlat, go wash the sand out of your vagina.   Don't worry, nobody is going to take away your next hit of crystal debth.

 

The "Republicans" want to raise the debt ceiling just as much as the "Democrats", they're just trying to figure out a way to keep their retarded voting constituency on the hook.  You see, Washington absolutely needs to maintain this phony facade of a "two-party" system. 

 

This latest scene of political theater has been particularly hard on Bad-Cop "republicans", and the Democrats sorely need them to hold their House majority (or at least a plausibly obstructionist-looking minority) in the next election.  Without this phony act, our ruling political caste will have nobody to blame and no way to deflect attention from the absolute ass-fucking they are laying down on all of us stupid voters.

 

So don't worry, stupid peasant.  The curtain will soon drop on this scene.  The debt limit will be raised (again), Obamacare will be fully funded, and Yellen will continue Bernanke's legacy of destroying our purchasing power so she can continue propping up this sham of a stock "market" and buying our crap debt that nobody else wants.

 

 

And in another 9 months or so, we'll be back here AGAIN, having the same damn argument about raising the debt ceiling AGAIN, and fucking idiots like you will still have learned absolutely nothing.

 

Try the Happy Jack Act

 

Estimate the expected deficit for the next year 

 

Divide by 12 to get the debt limit increase we need for the next month and call it the "Borrow"

 

Take 1% of the "Borrow"  and call it the "Cut"

 

On the 1st day the next 100 months ( 8 years and 4 months ) subtract another "Cut" from the "Borrow" and increase the borrowing limit by this decreasing amount. 

 

In just over 8 years we arrive at a balanced budget.  

 

Obama in his Oct. 3rd 2013  "Shut Down Speech"  said

 

"Now, unlike past shutdowns -- I want to make sure everybody understands this because, again, sometimes the tendency is to say, well, both sides are at fault.  This one has nothing to do with deficits or spending or budgets.  Our deficits are falling at the fastest pace in 60 years.  "

 

In which case a 1% per month reduction in borrowing power should mesh with his goal like a glove.

 

I call this the Happy Jack Deficit Reduction Act.



#42 Tom Ray

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 01:49 PM

I'm going to buy a case of tinfoil rather than my usual 75' roll.  Should be enough to protect the ceilings in my house as well as my kids.  I'm good.

 

B)

23ruvk8.jpg

 

What an idiot. Should have used mirrored glasses. They'll get him right through those dark ones.
 



#43 tikipete

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:00 PM

I'm going to fly my magic carpet over the edge of the flat earth and live forever in Olympian splendor.

 

I think BHO should take a page from the Republicans. Like Lincoln, he should just print the money he needs. The Green back preserved the Union once, there is no reason it shouldn't become standard  policy.



#44 plchacker

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 02:12 PM

If you haven't charted out the location of Mormons in your area, you haven't been serious, and have probably been just prepping-yourself-off. 


Seems like half the nuts on that preppers show are Mormons, I don't get it.

Ratings



#45 BigGuyWithPinkHat

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 03:26 PM

If inflation goes above 30% annually then Gabriel on top of the Temple will start blowing his horn and all the good Mormons will rapture. It's in the book.

#46 President Eisenhowler

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:22 PM

It's part of their belief system. I believe they are taught to have a full year reserve of foods and some cash too. 

 

Think 19th century Utah. If your crops fail, or if the primary breadwinner in the family is injured or dies, it's not like you can drive into town and sign up for food stamps.  A year's worth of food in the cellar will hold you while you get back on your feet; it's the difference between survival and being wiped out.   Now expand it beyond the individual and consider a town, and some disaster befalls -- horrible drought year, fire, epidemic, etc.  If everyone in town is comfortably sitting on a year's worth of food, then  the fabric of society isn't going to go to hell the instant trouble hits: the first instinct is "How can I help out," not, "Gee, I better grab my shotgun and barricade myself and my stockpile against looters."



#47 President Eisenhowler

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:27 PM


 

What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed. 

 

Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

 

What part of "You don't only need to pay the interest, you also need to pay the principal when it comes due" escapes your addled brain?



#48 Dog

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 08:47 PM


 

What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed. 

 

Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

 

What part of "You don't only need to pay the interest, you also need to pay the principal when it comes due" escapes your addled brain?

 

Which is why need to take on more debt.



#49 zzrider

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:07 PM


 
What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed. 
 
Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

 
What part of "You don't only need to pay the interest, you also need to pay the principal when it comes due" escapes your addled brain?

Uh, no, we ROLL the debt. Rolling debt NOT require an increase to the debt ceiling because it's a net zero. The only thing that we actually have to pay is the service - the interest.

#50 badlatitude

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 10:20 PM

I'm pretty sure the Anti-Deficiency Act dictates what gets paid and what does not.



#51 Regatta Dog

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 11:00 PM

I'm not worried.  The government will take care of us.

 

I think my small New England town is in line for one those military surplus tanks.  It will be good to know it won't just be used in parades and pushing branches off the road after a blizzard.



#52 Sean

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 11:13 PM

Good god Badlat, go wash the sand out of your vagina.   Don't worry, nobody is going to take away your next hit of crystal debth.
 
The "Republicans" want to raise the debt ceiling just as much as the "Democrats", they're just trying to figure out a way to keep their retarded voting constituency on the hook.  You see, Washington absolutely needs to maintain this phony facade of a "two-party" system. 
 
This latest scene of political theater has been particularly hard on Bad-Cop "republicans", and the Democrats sorely need them to hold their House majority (or at least a plausibly obstructionist-looking minority) in the next election.  Without this phony act, our ruling political caste will have nobody to blame and no way to deflect attention from the absolute ass-fucking they are laying down on all of us stupid voters.
 
So don't worry, stupid peasant.  The curtain will soon drop on this scene.  The debt limit will be raised (again), Obamacare will be fully funded, and Yellen will continue Bernanke's legacy of destroying our purchasing power so she can continue propping up this sham of a stock "market" and buying our crap debt that nobody else wants.
 
 
And in another 9 months or so, we'll be back here AGAIN, having the same damn argument about raising the debt ceiling AGAIN, and fucking idiots like you will still have learned absolutely nothing.


So the Republicans are taking one for the team? One hell of a bullet. More like a RPG. 24%

#53 Happy Jack

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 11:16 PM


 

What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed. 

 

Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

 

What part of "You don't only need to pay the interest, you also need to pay the principal when it comes due" escapes your addled brain?

 

The total service on the public debt including some state and local securities ia $415 billion. This however includes the intergovernmental debt.( about 5 trillion of the total 17 trillion) The Government  can not default on the money it owes itself. The total service on the public held debt ($12 trillion) is approximately 290 billion. 

 

My point remains unchanged. With 3 Trillion in anticipated revenue the US will not default on the $240 or the $290 billion to service the debt. Talk of default is total Bull Shit and Bad latitude is an idiot to suggest it is possible.



#54 Monkey

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 11:27 PM


I's planning on becoming a cannibal myself.


That's my plan. I'm going to eat BadLat. After dinner, I'll have a cocktail and take inventory of my new three month supply of food, cash, gold, and silver.

#55 Regatta Dog

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 11:40 PM


I's planning on becoming a cannibal myself.


That's my plan. I'm going to eat BadLat. After dinner, I'll have a cocktail and take inventory of my new three month supply of food, cash, gold, and silver.

 

Hoard plenty of Texas Pete.  I imagine he'll taste like half ass-hole and half idiot.  Not sure what either of those taste like, but you can't be too careful whilst gathering food stuffs for the family larder.



#56 badlatitude

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 12:41 AM

Shit, all I did was post a hypothetical question. You'd think I diddled your old lady and flirted with your daughters with all of the punk answers I got. Look, even if the Republicans are successful there will be so many people out of work they will still be demanding Obamacare for lack of any health care at all. Republicans picked the wrong battle any way you look at it, they lose.



#57 tikipete

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 12:52 AM

ffs, Let's discuss the second coming, that's far more likely.



#58 tuk tuk joe

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 12:59 AM

I'm going to fly my magic carpet over the edge of the flat earth and live forever in Olympian splendor.
 
I think BHO should take a page from the Republicans. Like Lincoln, he should just print the money he needs. The Green back preserved the Union once, there is no reason it shouldn't become standard  policy.


Lincoln was assassinated...

#59 tuk tuk joe

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 01:06 AM



 
What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed. 
 
Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

 
What part of "You don't only need to pay the interest, you also need to pay the principal when it comes due" escapes your addled brain?

The "principal" never existed. It was pulled out of a hat...

#60 White Cracker

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 01:43 AM

 


 

What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed. 

 

Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

 

What part of "You don't only need to pay the interest, you also need to pay the principal when it comes due" escapes your addled brain?

 

Which is why need to take on more debt.

Or print more money.

Or both.



#61 White Cracker

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 01:45 AM

 Look, even if the Republicans are successful there will be so many people out of work they will still be demanding Obamacare for lack of any health care at all. 

Don't hold your breath.

A whopping 51,000 signed up this week.

A real success story.



#62 badlatitude

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 02:30 AM

Since the government hasn't yet released any numbers yours are just a guess and a bad one at that.



#63 TheFlash

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:23 AM

and since they don't actually need the insurance till Jan 1, why buy early?



#64 tuk tuk joe

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 09:06 AM

Since the government hasn't yet released any numbers yours are just a guess and a bad one at that.


And how do you know it's a "bad one" asswiper?

#65 zzrider

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:34 AM

Good god Badlat, go wash the sand out of your vagina.   Don't worry, nobody is going to take away your next hit of crystal debth.
 
The "Republicans" want to raise the debt ceiling just as much as the "Democrats", they're just trying to figure out a way to keep their retarded voting constituency on the hook.  You see, Washington absolutely needs to maintain this phony facade of a "two-party" system. 
 
This latest scene of political theater has been particularly hard on Bad-Cop "republicans", and the Democrats sorely need them to hold their House majority (or at least a plausibly obstructionist-looking minority) in the next election.  Without this phony act, our ruling political caste will have nobody to blame and no way to deflect attention from the absolute ass-fucking they are laying down on all of us stupid voters.
 
So don't worry, stupid peasant.  The curtain will soon drop on this scene.  The debt limit will be raised (again), Obamacare will be fully funded, and Yellen will continue Bernanke's legacy of destroying our purchasing power so she can continue propping up this sham of a stock "market" and buying our crap debt that nobody else wants.
 
 
And in another 9 months or so, we'll be back here AGAIN, having the same damn argument about raising the debt ceiling AGAIN, and fucking idiots like you will still have learned absolutely nothing.


So the Republicans are taking one for the team? One hell of a bullet. More like a RPG. 24%

 

Yep.  This soap opera has been playing for 30 years now, the script writers are losing control of the plot, and the whole series has jumped the shark but they've got to try to keep it rolling anyhow.

 

Believe me, I'd love to be wrong about what I predicted above, highlighted in red.  I'd love it if we actually had a genuine, prinicipled opposition party. 

 

Hell, I'd even be happy to see the "Republicans" get absolutely slaughtered in the next election and have the "Democrats" suffer the misfortune of winning supermajorities of both chambers of Congress.  Then there would be nobody to blame for the shitshow they're creating, and the game would be laid bare for all to see.  And that's why it won't happen.  At the very least, "Republicans" must and will retain, at the very least, a significant minority in Congress so that they can keep all us ignorant fools fighting amongst ourselves.  There always has to be a Bad Cop.



#66 One of Five

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 02:03 PM

Wow folks just IMAGINE us defaulting. 

 

IMAGINE



#67 badlatitude

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:33 PM

The new Republican mantra seems to defy any sense. Why don't you tell us Kevin, just how will this proceed?



#68 zzrider

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 05:02 PM

Badlat, I'll take a stab at that, even though you seem to ignore every response I pose to you.

Here's the deal: using FY2013 numbers, annual US revenue was $2.7 trillion. Meanwhile, service on our existing debt was approx. $397 billion.

The principal on the debt is not relevant to this issue because we dont actually pay rhe principal, ever. We roll it. That's stupid too, but not relevant for this discussion because rolling debt doesn't increase the total amount of debt.

Now, maybe you can explain why it's not possible to make $397 billion worth of payments when we've got income of $2,700 billion. Having other bills to pay and more stuff we'd like to buy is not an excuse for default and I'll reject that argument.

#69 badlatitude

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:05 PM

The first problem I see is a difference in U.S. revenue. My source indicates $2.2 trillion revenue, yours indicate 500 billion more please clarify.



#70 tikipete

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:12 PM

This is the sure sign of a troll, no anwers only questions.



#71 badlatitude

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:14 PM

How stupid, we have to agree on the amount of revenue or we end up arguing about different conclusions.



#72 zzrider

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 08:26 PM

The first problem I see is a difference in U.S. revenue. My source indicates $2.2 trillion revenue, yours indicate 500 billion more please clarify.


Are the White House OMB numbers good enough for you?

http://m.whitehouse....ts/hist01z1.xls

2.712 trillion.

#73 badlatitude

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 08:52 PM

Okay, let's agree on your figure. First question is how much of that number gets changed by large unemployment numbers? Do we agree that a default will affect employment numbers, ergo receivables? What about Treasury securities that mature during a given month? In March, we had over $700 billion due.



#74 zzrider

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 09:32 PM

JFC.  Bad, if you keep using ing the word DEFAULT In this context, which I just illustrated is bullshit, then we can't have a conversation.

 

Fucking OF COURSE not raising the debt ceiling will cause a short-term unemployment spike as the economy would have to readjust to the loss of the government tit.   But you know what?  Next year when we're have this same fucking conversation AGAIN, the problem will be even worse because we refused to take our medicine this time.

 

Your can-kicking by just piling on more debt solves absolutely nothing, and in fact compounds the problem.

 

You just pointed out the insane amount of debt that we had to roll in March.  Doesn't this tell you that we have a fookin debt problem?   Yet your response is that we must add EVEN MORE debt?  What the hell is wrong with you?   Would you run your personal finances like this?



#75 badlatitude

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 09:52 PM

So forcing people to unemployment is a solution? How about jobs first, then make your adjustments. The United States does not function like a household. It cannot be restricted from borrowing to overcome shortfalls in cash flow even when there is a surplus, what amazes me is the 18 trillion dollar number. Why is it being used to pursue an agenda when the only number that is relevant is $12 trillion?  that is the publicly traded portion of the debt, the only part that really matters. The rest of the debt is held by Federal agencies and the Federal Reserve and costs nothing to service as it's considered an accounting entry.



#76 Sean

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 09:55 PM

JFC.  Bad, if you keep using ing the word DEFAULT In this context, which I just illustrated is bullshit, then we can't have a conversation.
 
Fucking OF COURSE not raising the debt ceiling will cause a short-term unemployment spike as the economy would have to readjust to the loss of the government tit.   But you know what?  Next year when we're have this same fucking conversation AGAIN, the problem will be even worse because we refused to take our medicine this time.
 
Your can-kicking by just piling on more debt solves absolutely nothing, and in fact compounds the problem.
 
You just pointed out the insane amount of debt that we had to roll in March.  Doesn't this tell you that we have a fookin debt problem?   Yet your response is that we must add EVEN MORE debt?  What the hell is wrong with you?   Would you run your personal finances like this?

Are you seriously advocating holding the line on the debt limit? You actually want that to happen?

#77 mikeys clone no1

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:37 PM

what actually happens when the government starts to run a surplus and all the debt is payed off? does the government save the money?



#78 zzrider

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:45 PM

JFC.  Bad, if you keep using ing the word DEFAULT In this context, which I just illustrated is bullshit, then we can't have a conversation.
 
Fucking OF COURSE not raising the debt ceiling will cause a short-term unemployment spike as the economy would have to readjust to the loss of the government tit.   But you know what?  Next year when we're have this same fucking conversation AGAIN, the problem will be even worse because we refused to take our medicine this time.
 
Your can-kicking by just piling on more debt solves absolutely nothing, and in fact compounds the problem.
 
You just pointed out the insane amount of debt that we had to roll in March.  Doesn't this tell you that we have a fookin debt problem?   Yet your response is that we must add EVEN MORE debt?  What the hell is wrong with you?   Would you run your personal finances like this?

Are you seriously advocating holding the line on the debt limit? You actually want that to happen?

 

Yes.  Haven't you figured out yet that what you guys are advocating ISN'T WORKING?             Adding more debt is not a solution to the problem of too much debt.  We are making things worse.

 

Now, given that this theater will soon end and we WILL raise the debt ceiling, what are you going to say in a year when we're back here having the same fookin argument AGAIN?



#79 Olsonist

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:53 PM

Adding more debt is not a solution to the problem of too much debt.

 

If you want less debt, either spend less or increase taxes. The Grand Bargain is on the table and it does both. Clinton did the Grand Bargain thing in 1993. It worked pretty well too. But the Reps have said they won't raise taxes and the Dems have said they won't cut entitlements unless there are new revenues as well. So that's an impasse.

 

But this shutdown is about ObamaCare, which has been been passed, signed, funded, litigated and elected.

 

It's not about debt.



#80 badlatitude

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:54 PM

what actually happens when the government starts to run a surplus and all the debt is payed off? does the government save the money?

 

It's only happened once before and didn't work out well: http://www.npr.org/b...y-it-didnt-last



#81 badlatitude

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 11:57 PM

Adding more debt is not a solution to the problem of too much debt.

 

If you want less debt, either spend less or increase taxes. The Grand Bargain is on the table and it does both. Clinton did the Grand Bargain thing in 1993. It worked pretty well too. But the Reps have said they won't raise taxes and the Dems have said they won't cut entitlements unless there are new revenues as well. So that's an impasse.

 

But this shutdown is about ObamaCare, which has been been passed, signed, funded, litigated and elected.

 

It's not about debt.

+1  thanks for saying it so well.If they wanted to get our house in order they would be talking tax hikes not service cuts.



#82 mikeys clone no1

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:03 AM

what actually happens when the government starts to run a surplus and all the debt is payed off? does the government save the money?

 

It's only happened once before and didn't work out well: http://www.npr.org/b...y-it-didnt-last

interesting. 

 

i was thinking about the disconnect between economic cycles and taxes. when conditions are good and tax receipts are high, arguments for tax cuts rage. but the opposite, when tax receipts drop due to bad times and spending climbs, don't come with a corresponding call to raise or maintain taxes. it takes away the opportunity for governments to save and have a "war chest" with which to attack those low points in the economic cycle. 

 

i would guess that most individuals would practise this "save for a rainy day" in their own households. 



#83 zzrider

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:10 AM

 

Adding more debt is not a solution to the problem of too much debt.

 

If you want less debt, either spend less or increase taxes. The Grand Bargain is on the table and it does both. Clinton did the Grand Bargain thing in 1993. It worked pretty well too. But the Reps have said they won't raise taxes and the Dems have said they won't cut entitlements unless there are new revenues as well. So that's an impasse.

 

But this shutdown is about ObamaCare, which has been been passed, signed, funded, litigated and elected.

 

It's not about debt.

+1  thanks for saying it so well.If they wanted to get our house in order they would be talking tax hikes not service cuts.

 

That is your OPINION, not fact.  I happen to hold exactly the opposite opinion  - less tax hikes, more service cuts.

 

Can we at least agree to distinguish fact from personal opinion and wishes?



#84 badlatitude

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:15 AM

No, that is a fact. The U.S. receives about $185 Billion a month in revenue. Toward the end of October and the beginning of November, the government will require half a trillion dollars to pay out bond holders. How do you propose paying that without raising taxes?

 

QAfnXgl.png



#85 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:31 AM

No, that is a fact. The U.S. receives about $185 Billion a month in revenue. Toward the end of October and the beginning of November, the government will require half a trillion dollars to pay out bond holders. How do you propose paying that without raising taxes?

 

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SO - BL, if this was your personal account, what would YOU do?  Would you minimize outlays?  How would you generate more revenue? 

 

It's all fun as long as its someone else's money, eh? 



#86 badlatitude

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:42 AM

The Tea Party reminds me of a twenty something individual who juggles bills to make ends meet and never quite gets there. Look at it this way, how do you expect the global market community and creditor nations to view this? Do you think China enjoys being held hostage by a rogue U.S. Congress operation? I believe that very soon you will see global markets implementing systems less reliant on a government that acts like that twenty something person ultimately leaving the United States like that twenty something person holding the bag. It takes literally generations to build prestige and respect, one term of a rogue Congress can take it all away.



#87 zzrider

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:49 AM

Wow BL, that last post of yours really takes the cake for hypocritical audacity.

 

You and yours are the ones who insist on puttin our Mastercard payments on the American Express card, while simultaneously demanding that we continue spending like drunken sailors in shore leave.

 

You're in no position to lecture anyone on fiscal incompetence.



#88 Olsonist

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:52 AM

ZZ, did you vote for Bush?



#89 badlatitude

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:57 AM

You're delusional. I said we need to raise taxes, how are Republicans going to tax to reduce $18 Trillion dollars? Once default begins every bond holder is going to demand payment and there is no Bankruptcy option for the U.S. or States. Even speaking about default has led to consequences in markets, the interest rates will go sky high and no borrowing at all will be the result. Our revered currency will be dead, our country ruined. Is that the result you really want?



#90 zzrider

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:57 AM

ZZ, did you vote for Bush?

 

First time, yes.  Second time, no.  Relevance? 

 

Didn't vote for Romney,  if that matters.



#91 Dog

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 11:35 AM

The Tea Party reminds me of a twenty something individual who juggles bills to make ends meet and never quite gets there. Look at it this way, how do you expect the global market community and creditor nations to view this? Do you think China enjoys being held hostage by a rogue U.S. Congress operation? I believe that very soon you will see global markets implementing systems less reliant on a government that acts like that twenty something person ultimately leaving the United States like that twenty something person holding the bag. It takes literally generations to build prestige and respect, one term of a rogue Congress can take it all away.

 

Right BL, the adults in the room understand that piling debt on top of debt to pay for the debt is the fiscally responsible course for America which is why they ridicule those opposed and call them Tea Party terrorists.



#92 Sean

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 03:16 PM

I hope the fringe in congress were listening - Christine Lagarde

http://www.nbcnews.c...269855#53269855

#93 Olsonist

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 05:29 PM

Dog, did you vote for Bush?



#94 badlatitude

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 05:44 PM

The Tea Party reminds me of a twenty something individual who juggles bills to make ends meet and never quite gets there. Look at it this way, how do you expect the global market community and creditor nations to view this? Do you think China enjoys being held hostage by a rogue U.S. Congress operation? I believe that very soon you will see global markets implementing systems less reliant on a government that acts like that twenty something person ultimately leaving the United States like that twenty something person holding the bag. It takes literally generations to build prestige and respect, one term of a rogue Congress can take it all away.

 

Right BL, the adults in the room understand that piling debt on top of debt to pay for the debt is the fiscally responsible course for America which is why they ridicule those opposed and call them Tea Party terrorists.

So where were those responsible adults when Bush put the Iraq War, Medicare Part D and the tax cuts on the tab? where were they when Reagan put $2.6 Trillion on the credit card?  I'll tell you, they were drinking the party line Kool-Aid. For thirty years, the GOP has seen budget deficits as a feature not a bug, willing to exploit debt as a way to dismantle Social Security and Medicare. Unfortunately for them, the programs have proven too popular and dismantling them is really no longer an option. That's why you see the hissy fit in Congress, they don't know what to do and why calling them Tea Party Terrorists is an apt moniker. Especially when the end game they are playing results in the destruction of our Republic.



#95 Dog

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:49 PM



The Tea Party reminds me of a twenty something individual who juggles bills to make ends meet and never quite gets there. Look at it this way, how do you expect the global market community and creditor nations to view this? Do you think China enjoys being held hostage by a rogue U.S. Congress operation? I believe that very soon you will see global markets implementing systems less reliant on a government that acts like that twenty something person ultimately leaving the United States like that twenty something person holding the bag. It takes literally generations to build prestige and respect, one term of a rogue Congress can take it all away.

 
Right BL, the adults in the room understand that piling debt on top of debt to pay for the debt is the fiscally responsible course for America which is why they ridicule those opposed and call them Tea Party terrorists.


So where were those responsible adults when Bush put the Iraq War, Medicare Part D and the tax cuts on the tab? where were they when Reagan put $2.6 Trillion on the credit card?  I'll tell you, they were drinking the party line Kool-Aid. For thirty years, the GOP has seen budget deficits as a feature not a bug, willing to exploit debt as a way to dismantle Social Security and Medicare. Unfortunately for them, the programs have proven too popular and dismantling them is really no longer an option. That's why you see the hissy fit in Congress, they don't know what to do and why calling them Tea Party Terrorists is an apt moniker. Especially when the end game they are playing results in the destruction of our Republic.


Did you see me defend the GOP?...The GOP has been bad and the Democrats worse. And now many on both sides for dubious reasons ridicule the one group that advocates stopping the madness.

#96 badlatitude

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 06:56 PM

That one group is delivering madness. When the endgame is the destruction of markets, jobs, and stability what else could you possibly call it?



#97 Dog

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:05 PM

That one group is delivering madness. When the endgame is the destruction of markets, jobs, and stability what else could you possibly call it?

Please...do you think the Tea Parties end game is distruction of markets, jobs and stability. You probably also think our current practice of going deeper and deeper in debt is sustainable and responsible. Gotta run...Having dinner with Ben Carson tonight.

#98 badlatitude

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:09 PM

Absolutely it is. They have run out of ideas and now are taking a stance which will wreck the country. The Tea Party is campaigning not governing, our problems cannot be solved by  a single party fixating themselves on ultimatums its not leadership, it's terrorism.



#99 badlatitude

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:11 PM

I'm out too Dog, I have to run and get a haircut before the next game.



#100 Sean

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:43 PM

Christine Lagarde, Managing Director of thre IMF today on Meet the Press

“One thing we’re certain around the table, it was that if there is that degree of disruption, that lack of certainty, that lack of trust in the U.S. signature, it would mean massive disruption the world over, and we would be at risk of tipping yet again into a recession,” Ms. Lagarde said.
She said the United States has to get serious about entitlement spending down the road, but that slashing spending in the near-term could be counterproductive.

When it comes to the U.S. economy, the IMF says, “Hurry up, but slow down,” she told NBC.
“Hurry up because measures have to be taken now to deal with entitlements, as you suggested, because there is a level of entitlement coming up and big liabilities coming up as well in terms of interest payment,” she said. “But we say slow down because the point is not to contract the economy by slashing spending brutally now as recovery is picking up.”


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