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Dalton Ramps up Work on New Kiwi Challenge

Emirates ETNZ Grant Dalton NZ Govt.

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#101 KiwiJoker

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:18 PM

More detail today in the Herald over the NZ Govt's bridge funding for TNZ.

 

Seems it will cover less than 50 per cent of the team through to next May when they have to make their go/no-go decision on another challenge.

 

http://www.nzherald....jectid=11143811

 

"Chief operating officer Kevin Shoebridge said the Government cash had bought the team time, allowing them to start "talking to and retaining key people" while they await details of the next event, expected to be announced by defenders Oracle Team USA early next year.

 

"But the investment enables them to keep only about 40 per cent of their staff, and Mr Shoebridge, managing director Grant Dalton and skipper Dean Barker now have some tough decisions to make over where to commit the money."



#102 Scarecrow

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 11:33 PM

ETNZ offering to pay you till May then who knows or someone else offering you a 4 year contract.  ETNZ will be relying on loyalty or promising bigger future pay cheques to keep people.  How many of the key members are so committed that they will be happy not to be paid for the next 6 months so that others can be retained?



#103 SIR CLEAN

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:54 AM

More detail today in the Herald over the NZ Govt's bridge funding for TNZ.
 
Seems it will cover less than 50 per cent of the team through to next May when they have to make their go/no-go decision on another challenge.
 
http://www.nzherald....jectid=11143811
 
"Chief operating officer Kevin Shoebridge said the Government cash had bought the team time, allowing them to start "talking to and retaining key people" while they await details of the next event, expected to be announced by defenders Oracle Team USA early next year.
 
"But the investment enables them to keep only about 40 per cent of their staff, and Mr Shoebridge, managing director Grant Dalton and skipper Dean Barker now have some tough decisions to make over where to commit the money."


I bet they will not let the worst performers go in Order to keep the key people.

Yip! Dalton with chooses Dalton. Darker will chooses Darker. These two will pat each other on the back then they will sign up Shoebridge. Then the design team then that's 5 million gone on losers.

And still no external audit of ETNZ's finances, systems, viability, an key personal.

tNZ is worse than The NZ Cricket side. The NZ cricket side loses badly every year, there is poor accountability but.... the Govt gives no money...

Yet they are just as deserving of money and get none.

What would all the kiwis on this site say if NZ cricket got $35 million and TNZ nothing..

#104 SW Sailor

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:56 AM

To summarize...

Dalton had ,millions of dollars, an edge with foiling first, never wanted for anything, moaned a lot, exposed his advantage to early, moaned a lot, thought OR had a auto adjust foiling system, spent the same amount as Larry, spent more on salaries than Larry ( by %) and ....LOST...

Yip keep the loser in charge, keep the other loser Barker, take more Kiwi money...

And LOSE again.

 

 

:lol:

 

Funny!  That's not what I read.

 

Not sure what exactly that means based on some of your interpretations or what "Herbie" Gladwell wrote.

 

Your definition of "benefit of the doubt" is certainly much broader than mine, but I heavily discount political influence, which was certainly at play.



#105 SIR CLEAN

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 08:14 AM

ETNZ offering to pay you till May then who knows or someone else offering you a 4 year contract.  ETNZ will be relying on loyalty or promising bigger future pay cheques to keep people.  How many of the key members are so committed that they will be happy not to be paid for the next 6 months so that others can be retained?


To true! Larry, Oatley, and many others are signing the real good sailors and winners as we speak...

Which is why Barker and Dalton are keen to get funding! Nobody wants them!....


Oh yeah! And they can't be traitors now can they!...he he he

Mean while the other team members are keeping real quite. I wonder why?..:-)

#106 KiwiJoker

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 03:04 AM

ETNZ offering to pay you till May then who knows or someone else offering you a 4 year contract.  ETNZ will be relying on loyalty or promising bigger future pay cheques to keep people.  How many of the key members are so committed that they will be happy not to be paid for the next 6 months so that others can be retained?

 

All good pouts. Depends on the individuals for sure. For the top guys who may already have been head-hunted, they've already received the affirmation of their market value. Why not continue to pick up a pay check with a known entity for a few months until  the teams and terms for AC35 become clearer! Right now TNZ is the second-best AC team in the world and a bloody close second at that. It's not just about signing a four-year contract. It's also about a team culture and team mates who have the skills and the drives to win the AC. 



#107 dgg

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 07:29 PM

ETNZ offering to pay you till May then who knows or someone else offering you a 4 year contract.  ETNZ will be relying on loyalty or promising bigger future pay cheques to keep people.  How many of the key members are so committed that they will be happy not to be paid for the next 6 months so that others can be retained?


To true! Larry, Oatley, and many others are signing the real good sailors and winners as we speak...

Which is why Barker and Dalton are keen to get funding! Nobody wants them!....


Oh yeah! And they can't be traitors now can they!...he he he

Mean while the other team members are keeping real quite. I wonder why?..:-)

Looks like you have been outed on one of the other threads. So is this the end of Yankee Doodle? Seems you don't have any credibility to make any comments in the first place.  I have never read so much hate from one person with no constructive arguement. See you later you sad person. Wonder what your new name will be. I am sure it wont be far away.



#108 burbanite

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:29 AM

To true! Larry, Oatley, and many others are signing the real good sailors and winners as we speak...

 

Anyone have a list of these names? I'd sure like to know who is signed to which team.



#109 SIR CLEAN

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:23 AM


ETNZ offering to pay you till May then who knows or someone else offering you a 4 year contract.  ETNZ will be relying on loyalty or promising bigger future pay cheques to keep people.  How many of the key members are so committed that they will be happy not to be paid for the next 6 months so that others can be retained?


To true! Larry, Oatley, and many others are signing the real good sailors and winners as we speak...
Which is why Barker and Dalton are keen to get funding! Nobody wants them!....
Oh yeah! And they can't be traitors now can they!...he he he
Mean while the other team members are keeping real quite. I wonder why?..:-)
Looks like you have been outed on one of the other threads. So is this the end of Yankee Doodle? Seems you don't have any credibility to make any comments in the first place.  I have never read so much hate from one person with no constructive arguement. See you later you sad person. Wonder what your new name will be. I am sure it wont be far away.

Disagree completely. Happy for people to assume what they like.they are wrong.

Who ever this Graeme guy is is not important to me and I am happy for you to think I am him until you figure who I am. ( I do feel sorry for him and all the lies some here have said about him in reference to me) carry on making up stories, telling lies and bagging the wrong person.

Dgg you are a complete fucktard! Where have you disputed, line by line, any of my constructive arguments.

Just because you are a lame "passive aggressive"and you can not see beyond you're own bias does not mean I am negative.

If you were as positive as you make yourself out to be then you will see that I offer better assessment of ETNZ,s weaknesses and issues than any one. Sure I do not sugar coat it like you muppets and people like Barker. But they would learn more from me than all the positive "back slappers" like you who praise losers and mediocrity and seek no external assesment of ETNZ, their management, and their true potential to ...NOT KEEP CHOKING.

In fact, you, and the other kiwi "barker lovers" are the ones holding ETNZ back and allowing them a false sense of security.

The gullible nature of dumb kiwis is what Barker and Dalton are trading on. With that they will continue the losing culture again....because they have no competition for positions and no one challenging them and their ability.

ETNZ is a chronic disaster in perpetual motion.

Three failures, 3 chokes, and the gravy train continues. 3,999,900 kiwis do not care nor support ETNZ. But a few social sailors here say it is all OK!... so it must be..... that is funny and reflects poorly on half a dozen useless Kiwis, on this site, who never debate my thoughts but continue to play the man.

That reflects more poorly on you than me.

#110 vij

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:36 AM

To true! Larry, Oatley, and many others are signing the real good sailors and winners as we speak...

 

Anyone have a list of these names? I'd sure like to know who is signed to which team.

 

I am sure Mr doodle has a complete list off all the sailor, the many teams and who is sailing for "the many teams" for AC35 already. He just don't want to share it.



#111 k1w1

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:51 AM

 

 


ETNZ offering to pay you till May then who knows or someone else offering you a 4 year contract.  ETNZ will be relying on loyalty or promising bigger future pay cheques to keep people.  How many of the key members are so committed that they will be happy not to be paid for the next 6 months so that others can be retained?


To true! Larry, Oatley, and many others are signing the real good sailors and winners as we speak...
Which is why Barker and Dalton are keen to get funding! Nobody wants them!....
Oh yeah! And they can't be traitors now can they!...he he he
Mean while the other team members are keeping real quite. I wonder why?..:-)
Looks like you have been outed on one of the other threads. So is this the end of Yankee Doodle? Seems you don't have any credibility to make any comments in the first place.  I have never read so much hate from one person with no constructive arguement. See you later you sad person. Wonder what your new name will be. I am sure it wont be far away.


 that is funny and reflects poorly on half a dozen useless Kiwis

 

And you are one of the half dozen .. Wussell  :lol:



#112 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 07:22 AM

Who ever this Graeme guy is is not important to me and I am happy for you to think I am him until you figure who I am. ( I do feel sorry for him and all the lies some here have said about him in reference to me) carry on making up stories, telling lies and bagging the wrong person.


Bwwaahahahahaha. This reminds me of the story about the kid who rings up his school and says 'johnny is sick and can't come to school today' the teacher asks who he is speaking too and Johnny replies ' this is my father speaking'.

Hi Graham.

#113 Liquid Assett NZ

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:19 AM

No one is saying Dean will skipper the next challenge. They are just securing the future of the brand Sheesh :rolleyes:



#114 BalticBandit

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:30 AM

I don't get all the bashing of Dalt's and Barker.  Barker was not as good as Spithill in the starting box  but he mostly put the boat where his tactician told him to go.   And his tactician choked 5 of the last 8 races in a very very big way.

 

Dalts put together a great team - they almost won (had there been an even 5 minute longer time limit they would have - in one of the closest challenges ever to a sitting defender that didn't actually succeed.

 

Frankly I'd want a Dalt's on my team.  The learning of what worked and where we went wrong would be immensely valuable.    That Dalts selected a Kiwi as the tactician was not wrong. but they needed a tactician that didn't choke as hard under pressure.



#115 bruno

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:14 PM

BB, I think you must have missed the memo about RD being as cool as they come and DB being the problem because his body language during the PCs was insufficiently agressive, as that is where match races are actually decided.

#116 floater

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:39 PM

I thought Barker won just as many starts as Spithill. Three fewer finishes though...

#117 KiwiJoker

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:56 PM

I don't get all the bashing of Dalt's and Barker.  Barker was not as good as Spithill in the starting box  but he mostly put the boat where his tactician told him to go.   And his tactician choked 5 of the last 8 races in a very very big way.

 

Dalts put together a great team - they almost won (had there been an even 5 minute longer time limit they would have - in one of the closest challenges ever to a sitting defender that didn't actually succeed.

 

Frankly I'd want a Dalt's on my team.  The learning of what worked and where we went wrong would be immensely valuable.    That Dalts selected a Kiwi as the tactician was not wrong. but they needed a tactician that didn't choke as hard under pressure.

 

You're right, of course.  But then you don't have some twisted reason for dumping shit on the team that nearly won the America's Cup. Make that a team that almost brought the America's Cup back to New Zealand for another NZ defence. 

 

If TNZ goes ahed, and I believe it will, it will be interesting to see the management and sailing team makeup. Time for a reset, that's for sure.  Time for fresh blood, ashore and afloat. But also a vital need for continuity. I see Dalts in a chairman's role, less involved in day-to-day management, probably concentrating on fund-raising. But that won't stop him crewiing whenever he has a chance. Barker and Davies will face competition for their roles but again as a need to preserve continuity and boost team development. 



#118 SW Sailor

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:56 AM

I don't get all the bashing of Dalt's and Barker.  Barker was not as good as Spithill in the starting box  but he mostly put the boat where his tactician told him to go.   And his tactician choked 5 of the last 8 races in a very very big way.

 

Dalts put together a great team - they almost won (had there been an even 5 minute longer time limit they would have - in one of the closest challenges ever to a sitting defender that didn't actually succeed.

 

Frankly I'd want a Dalt's on my team.  The learning of what worked and where we went wrong would be immensely valuable.    That Dalts selected a Kiwi as the tactician was not wrong. but they needed a tactician that didn't choke as hard under pressure.

 

You're right, of course.  But then you don't have some twisted reason for dumping shit on the team that nearly won the America's Cup. Make that a team that almost brought the America's Cup back to New Zealand for another NZ defence. 

 

If TNZ goes ahed, and I believe it will, it will be interesting to see the management and sailing team makeup. Time for a reset, that's for sure.  Time for fresh blood, ashore and afloat. But also a vital need for continuity. I see Dalts in a chairman's role, less involved in day-to-day management, probably concentrating on fund-raising. But that won't stop him crewiing whenever he has a chance. Barker and Davies will face competition for their roles but again as a need to preserve continuity and boost team development. 

 

So have you asked yourself what grumpy could have or should have done differently to win the cup ?

 

Not agreeing to increasing the wind limits when OR suggested it would have changed the outcome. Did they disagree for the sake of disagreeing ?



#119 ~Stingray~

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 07:11 PM

"Team New Zealand boss Grant Dalton is encouraged by initial responses from his syndicate's major sponsors as he sets off on a fundraising drive to launch another America's Cup challenge."
http://i.stuff.co.nz...ndraising-swing

#120 Scarecrow

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 03:50 AM

Interesting in that article that they've put designers over sailors as a priority for retention.

#121 brian weslake

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 06:16 AM

Interesting in that article that they've put designers over sailors as a priority for retention.

 

Particularly strange considering that the sailors sailed very well, but the designers designed a boat that, in the end, was much slower than Oracle's boat. Or are the Kiwis still in denial about that?



#122 SW Sailor

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 06:46 AM

Interesting in that article that they've put designers over sailors as a priority for retention.

 

Particularly strange considering that the sailors sailed very well, but the designers designed a boat that, in the end, was much slower than Oracle's boat. Or are the Kiwis still in denial about that?

 

Per grumpy early on their biggest asset was a 2500 lb Dell computer, which didn't do the designers justice in the end. I'm not sure that the sailors sailed all that well in the finals, after looking infallible for so long. Maybe their confidence was worn thin with OR's consistent performance in the finals.



#123 ~Stingray~

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 04:58 PM

A reasonably interesting radio interview by Veitchy with GD, must be from the past day or two.
-/
http://www.radiospor...uture-challenge

Grant Dalton: Update on a future challenge
Team New Zealand boss Grant Dalton talks to Tony Veitch about the next step in securing sponsors and funding for the next America's Cup challenge, meeting with Kim Dotcom, whether potential funding numbers were discussed and how he's feeling about getting behind another challenge

#124 dogwatch

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Posted 10 November 2013 - 08:42 AM

^

 

Worth a listen although low on specifics. He's certainly back in the hunt for $.



#125 ~Stingray~

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 03:47 PM

from http://m.nzherald.co...jectid=11155184
--
It was possibly the most spectacular match-sailing series the world has ever seen. Aucklanders were so gripped by the races that road traffic and mobile data patterns changed noticeably during the last 10 days or so of the America's Cup.

Emirates Team New Zealand may have failed to bring home the Cup, but there was more at stake during the race series than a sporting trophy: a valuable economic legacy. Ironically, the way the series finished, with Oracle Team USA catching up day-by-day, helped.
...

#126 ~Stingray~

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 11:42 PM

A reasonably interesting radio interview by Veitchy with GD, must be from the past day or two.
-/
http://www.radiospor...uture-challenge

Grant Dalton: Update on a future challenge
Team New Zealand boss Grant Dalton talks to Tony Veitch about the next step in securing sponsors and funding for the next America's Cup challenge, meeting with Kim Dotcom, whether potential funding numbers were discussed and how he's feeling about getting behind another challenge

Does this work for anyone? Doesn't load for me, it may be a different radio interview from the link above. http://www.radiolive...65/Default.aspx

#127 Liquid Assett NZ

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:58 AM

Interestingly Doyles have purchased one of the SL 33's with Moose's name being bandied about this could be a sign Doyles could enter the AC game. 

 

I'd be pretty shocked if ETNZ changed from Norths to Doyles but anything possible in this crazy game.



#128 Scarecrow

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 04:04 AM

Or a sign that Moose is saying "if you're looking at other skippers don't forget me".

There is also the F1 example where drivers join teams and bring sponsors with them.

Then it could just be they're cool boats and the price was right. I had heard they were all spoken for before the cup even started.

#129 Liquid Assett NZ

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 04:18 AM

Or a sign that Moose is saying "if you're looking at other skippers don't forget me".

There is also the F1 example where drivers join teams and bring sponsors with them.

Then it could just be they're cool boats and the price was right. I had heard they were all spoken for before the cup even started.

 

 

Moose isn't a match racing skipper tho really Minoprio/Burling need a look in 



#130 SIR CLEAN

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 06:20 AM

Interestingly Doyles have purchased one of the SL 33's with Moose's name being bandied about this could be a sign Doyles could enter the AC game. 
 
I'd be pretty shocked if ETNZ changed from Norths to Doyles but anything possible in this crazy game.




You are such a dipstick! Re read what you have just written and think about it.

You obviously have no understanding of the Sl 33s, Moose, or the AC.

Go back to you "dog" trailer sailer and stop making up stupid stories.

A quick Google of your boat/club reveals you ain,t no sailor bit more of a drinker at a rather average bar.

#131 SIR CLEAN

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 06:24 AM

Or a sign that Moose is saying "if you're looking at other skippers don't forget me".
There is also the F1 example where drivers join teams and bring sponsors with them.
Then it could just be they're cool boats and the price was right. I had heard they were all spoken for before the cup even started.

 
 
Moose isn't a match racing skipper tho really Minoprio/Burling need a look in 


Why does it have to be a kiwi? Only Coutts has won the AC for NZ. The best choice might be a non NZ,r and maybe a Brazilian, Austrailian, Spaniard or Englishman.

You kiwi's loyaltiy to kiwis could be you're biggest problem

#132 Liquid Assett NZ

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 06:40 AM

Interestingly Doyles have purchased one of the SL 33's with Moose's name being bandied about this could be a sign Doyles could enter the AC game. 
 
I'd be pretty shocked if ETNZ changed from Norths to Doyles but anything possible in this crazy game.




You are such a dipstick! Re read what you have just written and think about it.

You obviously have no understanding of the Sl 33s, Moose, or the AC.

Go back to you "dog" trailer sailer and stop making up stupid stories.

A quick Google of your boat/club reveals you ain,t no sailor bit more of a drinker at a rather average bar.

 

 

Shut up Graeme you really don't know anything about me. I know you used to sail Flying Fifteens at the club though, but you were asked to leave ??? hmm Stop trying to hijack everything.  You may be surprised what I do know.



#133 KiwiJoker

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:23 PM

A reasonably interesting radio interview by Veitchy with GD, must be from the past day or two.
-/
http://www.radiospor...uture-challenge

Grant Dalton: Update on a future challenge
Team New Zealand boss Grant Dalton talks to Tony Veitch about the next step in securing sponsors and funding for the next America's Cup challenge, meeting with Kim Dotcom, whether potential funding numbers were discussed and how he's feeling about getting behind another challenge

Does this work for anyone? Doesn't load for me, it may be a different radio interview from the link above. http://www.radiolive...65/Default.aspx

 

The link doesn't work for me. Went back and Googled Dalton, got the same link and, nada!   Appears to be a different interview, though. 

 

"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 7:10a.m.

"Team New Zealand boss Grant Dalton is on the show. He heads off-shore this week as he looks to secure the team’s big name sponsors. But what for? When is the next America’s Cup regatta? Who will be there. Which boats will they race? Is part of the $5 million from the government being used to fund his trip? Has he decided to remain with the team long term? What about his desire to do another Volvo?"



#134 ~Stingray~

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:53 PM

^ Thanks for confirming. I looked at the page source for the mp3 link, it 404's so I almost emailed them but quit instead. I'm sure there'll be something fresh in two or three weeks after GD gets back from Europe, it's clearly in his interests to keep in the public interest spotlight or he would not have done the above two interviews.

#135 bob202

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:43 AM

My point was that ETNZ's total budget was in the same ballpark as OR's. Hardly irrelevent in the face of all the claims that ETNZ lost because they were 'outspent'.
 

This is way, way off the mark in reality though - and seems mostly based on a comment by Coutts who is well known for throwing half-truths and curve-balls into the mix, especially when he's on the back foot as he was at the time he made the comment.

 

Having visited the bases of both teams it is blatantly obvious Oracle's outfit was both significantly larger. They also had more staff by miles working there daily. Their shore crew numbers alone was in the region of three times that of ETNZ and the additionals that go with that are numerous and add up really fast - catering, transport, uniforms etc (whether paid for by sponsors or not they are still operating expenses which contribute to what the team cost to run). Coutts alone was paid $5+ million dollars a year and Spithill and Ainsley would also have been paid far more than anyone at ETNZ.

 

Similarly, the key foreign staff they had were treated very well indeed. One kiwi I know personally who worked for the team had his family relocated there and his wife/kids had almost monthly business class flights home for her and the kids - something no-one in ETNZ enjoyed.

 

Oracle also entertained far more guests than ETNZ - at worst twice as many as a daily average. They ran two boats concurrently for months (and all support crew that needs to go with that), had over twice as many sailors on staff including 5 or 6 marquee sailors compared to basically only two for ETNZ (Baker and Ashby) and had to repair one boat which was badly damaged (that alone would cost a couple of million dollars in new parts/repairs).

 

It is ludicrous, when you look at the differences in the team, to come up with the conclusion that they spent a remotely similar amount of money - because they didn't.

 

Coutts' claim clearly perpetuated itself pretty well despite how obvious it was not the case.



#136 aldo

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:48 PM


My point was that ETNZ's total budget was in the same ballpark as OR's. Hardly irrelevent in the face of all the claims that ETNZ lost because they were 'outspent'.

This is way, way off the mark in reality though - and seems mostly based on a comment by Coutts who is well known for throwing half-truths and curve-balls into the mix, especially when he's on the back foot as he was at the time he made the comment.
 
Having visited the bases of both teams it is blatantly obvious Oracle's outfit was both significantly larger. They also had more staff by miles working there daily. Their shore crew numbers alone was in the region of three times that of ETNZ and the additionals that go with that are numerous and add up really fast - catering, transport, uniforms etc (whether paid for by sponsors or not they are still operating expenses which contribute to what the team cost to run). Coutts alone was paid $5+ million dollars a year and Spithill and Ainsley would also have been paid far more than anyone at ETNZ.
 
Similarly, the key foreign staff they had were treated very well indeed. One kiwi I know personally who worked for the team had his family relocated there and his wife/kids had almost monthly business class flights home for her and the kids - something no-one in ETNZ enjoyed.
 
Oracle also entertained far more guests than ETNZ - at worst twice as many as a daily average. They ran two boats concurrently for months (and all support crew that needs to go with that), had over twice as many sailors on staff including 5 or 6 marquee sailors compared to basically only two for ETNZ (Baker and Ashby) and had to repair one boat which was badly damaged (that alone would cost a couple of million dollars in new parts/repairs).
 
It is ludicrous, when you look at the differences in the team, to come up with the conclusion that they spent a remotely similar amount of money - because they didn't.
 
Coutts' claim clearly perpetuated itself pretty well despite how obvious it was not the case.


You seem to have all the facts? Could you explain to the rest of us how you know so much about Coutts's sallary? Are you his mistress?
I also noticed you mentioned nothing about GD's research spending which is rumored to be much larger than oracles.

#137 dogwatch

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:06 PM

^

 

 

Since you seem to have all the facts, could you expand on the rumour that GD's research spending was much larger than Oracle's? Why would that be? Where did all this research expenditure go?

 

Coutts' salary aside, the assertion that OR and ETNZ spent as the same level fails to pass a basic bullshit test. Operating two boats simultaneously will clearly burn $$$ faster than operating one and at a very significant rate indeed. Double the sailing team, double the shore team.



#138 aldo

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:30 PM

Defending at home is inherently cheaper than challenging from 10000k+ away.

#139 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:43 PM

Defending at home is inherently cheaper than challenging from 10000k+ away.

Ah ? i guess it did not cost Larry much to research, build two boats, pay for the lawyers against ADM, settle with ADM,pay for ACEA, ACRM, lawyers dealing with the BOS, revamping the piers, subziding GGYC, and a few more.



#140 aldo

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:57 PM


Defending at home is inherently cheaper than challenging from 10000k+ away.

Ah ? i guess it did not cost Larry much to research, build two boats, pay for the lawyers against ADM, settle with ADM,pay for ACEA, ACRM, lawyers dealing with the BOS, revamping the piers, subziding GGYC, and a few more.


None of those things you mention impacts the contest itself the sailors or the most important fact...
The speed of the boat.

Your argument is just as silly as bob's who cites OR spending more on parties to prove money made the deference.

#141 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:41 PM

 

Defending at home is inherently cheaper than challenging from 10000k+ away.

Ah ? i guess it did not cost Larry much to research, build two boats, pay for the lawyers against ADM, settle with ADM,pay for ACEA, ACRM, lawyers dealing with the BOS, revamping the piers, subziding GGYC, and a few more.

 

None of those things you mention impacts the contest itself the sailors or the most important fact...
The speed of the boat.

Your argument is just as silly as bob's who cites OR spending more on parties to prove money made the deference.

I am just commenting you affirmation : "Defending at home is inherently cheaper than challenging"



#142 SW Sailor

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:33 PM

Defending at home is inherently cheaper than challenging from 10000k+ away.

Ah ? i guess it did not cost Larry much to research, build two boats, pay for the lawyers against ADM, settle with ADM,pay for ACEA, ACRM, lawyers dealing with the BOS, revamping the piers, subziding GGYC, and a few more.

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#143 SW Sailor

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:37 PM

 

Defending at home is inherently cheaper than challenging from 10000k+ away.

Ah ? i guess it did not cost Larry much to research, build two boats, pay for the lawyers against ADM, settle with ADM,pay for ACEA, ACRM, lawyers dealing with the BOS, revamping the piers, subziding GGYC, and a few more.

 

None of those things you mention impacts the contest itself the sailors or the most important fact...
The speed of the boat.

Your argument is just as silly as bob's who cites OR spending more on parties to prove money made the deference.

 

Which brings to mind the famous "potted plant" argument that so many took the wrong side of for months.

 

One more argument totally blown up in the face of trolls :)

Attached Files



#144 dogwatch

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 08:06 AM

Your argument is just as silly as bob's who cites OR spending more on parties to prove money made the deference.

 

Except from what I've read, bob202 is arguing OR spent more than ETNZ, not that the spending made the difference.



#145 bob202

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 12:09 PM

Defending at home is inherently cheaper than challenging from 10000k+ away.

But they still had to set up their base from scratch basically too.

 

Also. ETNZ had mostly NZ staff paid under NZ contracts. Even the average like-for-like job done would have been cheaper for ETNZ.



#146 bob202

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 12:20 PM

Your argument is just as silly as bob's who cites OR spending more on parties to prove money made the deference.

 

Except from what I've read, bob202 is arguing OR spent more than ETNZ, not that the spending made the difference.

Correct. I am simply arguing against the blatantly obvious nonsense claim that the teams spend roughly the same amout of money. They did not and a simple visit to the bases - which I did would show the size of the operations were like comparing the McLaren and Caterham F1 teams (the cars look roughly the same to the layperson other than the pain job but the organisations are vastly different). Oracle was mammoth organisation which, unless they palmed heaps of their team stuff off to a separate organisation, simply cannot have operated on the budget of ETNZ.

 

Similarly Aldo, it is widely known that Coutts was on many millions of dollars per year. News items pointing to various amounts up to $10m/year are easy to find:

> http://en.nauticwebnews.com/958/ > says $10 million per year (2011)

> http://www.vsail.inf...russell-coutts/ > says $10 million per year (2011)

 

He is also touted as having been offered bonuses amounting to much more that for a successful cup win previously so his track record would surely demand something pretty hefty to defend it once again as he just did.

 

Coutt's salary alone would likely have been more than ETNZ entire sailing team and Dalton's salaries combined.



#147 ~Stingray~

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 03:28 PM

Someone mentioned a Shoebridge interview, here's one from about Nov 3.

 

He can't say much yet because nothing is decided but is guessing that:

 

There will be an ACWS in AC45's starting during 2014

ETNZ will step up and run two AC45's next time

The Protocol and Rule should be ready by Feb

If they can implement any of a number of possible cost reductions then AC72's may well get another go

First sign-up priorities were GD, Shoebridge, DB and Holroyd - with aims to secure up to 40 during the next year

Firm commitments by the sponsors will take 'months' to secure

 

--

Kevin Shoebridge: The future of Team NZ

Kevin Shoebridge of Team New Zealand talks to Tony Veitch about the future of the sailing team and the potential of another America's Cup challenge.



#148 coaster1

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:10 PM

Someone mentioned a Shoebridge interview, here's one from about Nov 3.

 

He can't say much yet because nothing is decided but is guessing that:

 

There will be an ACWS in AC45's starting during 2014

ETNZ will step up and run two AC45's next time

The Protocol and Rule should be ready by Feb

If they can implement any of a number of possible cost reductions then AC72's may well get another go

First sign-up priorities were GD, Shoebridge, DB and Holroyd - with aims to secure up to 40 during the next year

Firm commitments by the sponsors will take 'months' to secure

 

--

Kevin Shoebridge: The future of Team NZ

Kevin Shoebridge of Team New Zealand talks to Tony Veitch about the future of the sailing team and the potential of another America's Cup challenge.

 

Great interview, nice summary.

 

I assume by sign-ups he is referring to where the govt money will be spent to prevent poaching from other teams. Are GD, DB, and KS really poaching targets from other teams ?



#149 ~Stingray~

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:32 PM

^ Not sure, but why not?

He mentions having almost lost a designer, could've been Holroyd but maybe they've re-signed M&M?

Veitch referred to a Murray Deaker interview w RC. If he meant the radio interview from about 3 days after the Cup then yes it was mildly interesting (although RC mostly sounded exhausted) but in that same hour Deaker also interviewed Fay and then Dalton - both of which are worth a re-listen if anyone missed them - Dalton was especially good; and I think it's also that interview where GD said he thinks Alinghi is making circles. edit, leading me to wonder about guys like Kramers and Simmer.

edit: no, Veitch was referring to a more recent 'last Friday' interview w RC; I think that one has been posted too, a video.

#150 ~Stingray~

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 06:55 PM

It was from just 3 days after the Cup but here's that Deaker/GD interview that I mentioned above as being a good one

http://www.radiospor...ture-of-team-nz

#151 Xlot

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:41 PM


^^
What does "Alinghi making circles" mean?

#152 ~Stingray~

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 07:49 PM

Those were my words, you can hear what GD actually said in the radio link above.

edit, 'making circles' is what sharks do around prey; I also thought it a cute analogy to the Alinghi circling dial up logo http://www.troise.ne...linghi-logo.png

#153 ~Stingray~

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 08:30 PM

Team NZ move to lock down their young stars

Last updated 05:52 17/11/2013

DUNCAN JOHNSTONE

Team New Zealand are wooing young Kiwi world champions Peter Burling and Blair Tuke as a changing of the guard looms for the next America's Cup campaign.

http://i.stuff.co.nz...eir-young-stars

#154 KiwiJoker

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 11:25 PM

Team NZ move to lock down their young stars

Last updated 05:52 17/11/2013

DUNCAN JOHNSTONE

Team New Zealand are wooing young Kiwi world champions Peter Burling and Blair Tuke as a changing of the guard looms for the next America's Cup campaign.

http://i.stuff.co.nz...eir-young-starsks

 

Stinger -  Sitting here in Aucklland, the irony of an American blogger keeping me abreast of AC news reports and commentary in NZ media is not lost on me.  Thanks, mate!



#155 ~Stingray~

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 11:59 PM

Welcome, it's a fun subject for all of us.

Their openness is a decidedly nice change from the almost-hidden, reluctant and even negative ETNZ campaign approach to AC34.

Hopefully what we see in these interviews is a positive sign towards a new-age and refreshing attitude of emphasis on clean professionalism on balance, over some of the useless shit-slanging, as we all approach an even better AC35 future. Beginning with these very positive interviews it has been a great start.

#156 KiwiJoker

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 02:41 AM

Welcome, it's a fun subject for all of us.

Their openness is a decidedly nice change from the almost-hidden, reluctant and even negative ETNZ campaign approach to AC34.

Hopefully what we see in these interviews is a positive sign towards a new-age and refreshing attitude of emphasis on clean professionalism on balance, over some of the useless shit-slanging, as we all approach an even better AC35 future. Beginning with these very positive interviews it has been a great start.

 

Their openness is a decidedly nice change from the almost-hidden, reluctant and even negative ETNZ campaign approach to AC34.

 

Since you raised it, I never believe or accepted half of the shit you posted about ETNZ ….. and still don't!  :blink:   

 

I was prepared to let it go but it seems you're unable.

 

But I can't fault your work ethic.



#157 SW Sailor

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 03:43 AM

Welcome, it's a fun subject for all of us.

Their openness is a decidedly nice change from the almost-hidden, reluctant and even negative ETNZ campaign approach to AC34.

Hopefully what we see in these interviews is a positive sign towards a new-age and refreshing attitude of emphasis on clean professionalism on balance, over some of the useless shit-slanging, as we all approach an even better AC35 future. Beginning with these very positive interviews it has been a great start.

 

Seems like an interesting situation with grumpy.

 

An animosity towards RC seemed to underscore almost everything he did and said in AC34, probably highlighted at the charity dinner. Two SL33's, one AC45, supported the ACWS only because it was a requirement, never really developed the bench strength with the sailing team, ignored the facebook vs flintstone remark, although his sheeple ran all the way down the field with it and never let off in an effort to mock RC.

 

Now he's raised his hand suggesting if anyone can do better to come forward, has stated the team will be run with a less autocratic decision making process, is taking direction from the NZ Olympics coach, openly recruiting younger sailors, has already signed up for two AC45's, will make the helm earn the position vs just backing DB from the start, etc. Looks like he's going down a similar path OR did three years ago.

 

Seems he's accepted the fact that RC schooled him and things could have been done much differently.



#158 Kia Ora

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 04:36 PM

Team NZ move to lock down their young stars

Last updated 05:52 17/11/2013

DUNCAN JOHNSTONE

Team New Zealand are wooing young Kiwi world champions Peter Burling and Blair Tuke as a changing of the guard looms for the next America's Cup campaign.

http://i.stuff.co.nz...eir-young-starsks

 

Stinger -  Sitting here in Aucklland, the irony of an American blogger keeping me abreast of AC news reports and commentary in NZ media is not lost on me.  Thanks, mate!

Totally agree.

Stinger, you find some pretty good stuff. Save me a lot of work, especially as my wifi is bloody limited.

Waiting in the Canaries and wifi is 20 Euro for 1 Gb. That doesn't even make a good fart. 1 measly Gb.

No videos - nuthin.

So thanks.

Interesting following JS. He is really putting it out there that he has been approached by "lots". Pretty obvious that he is hoping to jack up his fee. I wouldn't have thought it was necessary tho.

With luck, TNZ can retain Burling and Tue plus Will Tiller. 

Running a pair of 45's with 3 lots of potential skippers would be pretty interesting.



#159 ~Stingray~

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 04:39 PM

Their openness is a decidedly nice change from the almost-hidden, reluctant and even negative ETNZ campaign approach to AC34.

 

Since you raised it, I never believe or accepted half of the shit you posted about ETNZ ….. and still don't!  :blink:   

 

I was prepared to let it go but it seems you're unable.

 

But I can't fault your work ethic.

Should have made it clearer that my comment was about the lead-up (the 'approach') to AC34 when, despite having already filed an entry at the first chance to, they for months refused to even acknowledge their already-underway efforts to campaign for the Cup. Yes there are valid reasons for it (a re-established campaign that damn near won the Cup, probably a far easier fund-raising task ahead this time, etc, etc) but: This new start is in very marked contrast to that old one. It's good to see.



#160 ~Stingray~

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:00 PM

Interesting following JS. He is really putting it out there that he has been approached by "lots". Pretty obvious that he is hoping to jack up his fee. I wouldn't have thought it was necessary tho.

With luck, TNZ can retain Burling and Tue plus Will Tiller. 

Running a pair of 45's with 3 lots of potential skippers would be pretty interesting.

I remember LR's Patrizio Bertelli remarking at the conclusion of the LVC that his team's core talent had been raided after 2007 and think he must surely have been including JS in those thoughts. Hard to say what if anything 'lots' really means but it would surprise me if one of the approaches to JS is not from Bertelli. Almost ironic how we read about JS's status from during the San Diego event on almost the same day we heard the good podcast with Draper, who absolutely speaks as if he is signed up as the still-current LR helm.

 

Yes, would like to see Burling, Tue, Tiller and co with ETNZ too. Despite how well they did in the RB YS it will be very hard for them to beat out the vastly experienced and still-physically-in-shape DB, but it would be a good fresh-blood progression for the team's long-term all the same and I expect DB would welcome them to the effort.

 

 

Back to the GD interviews: What he alludes to in his talk about second-guessing some of his own strategy, the board of governance, the decision-making process and authority lines, etc, is an interesting subject. It's actually quite impressive given that it often takes someone more removed from the team's inside operations to have the ability to assess things independently. It's a subject we could probably get into in a semi-constructive way.



#161 SW Sailor

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:17 PM

Should have made it clearer that my comment was about the lead-up (the 'approach') to AC34 when, despite having already filed an entry at the first chance to, they for months refused to even acknowledge their already-underway efforts to campaign for the Cup. Yes there are valid reasons for it (a re-established campaign that damn near won the Cup, probably a far easier fund-raising task ahead this time, etc, etc) but: This new start is in very marked contrast to that old one. It's good to see.

 

Forgot about that part - clearly recall all the sheeple that vehemently denied it for months on end and became outraged over claims that they did enter. The only purpose being to undermine an event RC organized.



#162 ~Stingray~

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:21 PM

Should have made it clearer that my comment was about the lead-up (the 'approach') to AC34 when, despite having already filed an entry at the first chance to, they for months refused to even acknowledge their already-underway efforts to campaign for the Cup. Yes there are valid reasons for it (a re-established campaign that damn near won the Cup, probably a far easier fund-raising task ahead this time, etc, etc) but: This new start is in very marked contrast to that old one. It's good to see.

 

Forgot about that part - clearly recall all the sheeple that vehemently denied it for months on end and became outraged over claims that they did enter. The only purpose being to undermine an event RC organized.

 

Whether or not that was the purpose their complete non-endorsement of the vision certainly had that effect and made it very difficult for the organizers who, by the Protocol, were to announce entry numbers but leave disclosure announcements to the teams.



#163 KiwiJoker

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:05 PM

Should have made it clearer that my comment was about the lead-up (the 'approach') to AC34 when, despite having already filed an entry at the first chance to, they for months refused to even acknowledge their already-underway efforts to campaign for the Cup. Yes there are valid reasons for it (a re-established campaign that damn near won the Cup, probably a far easier fund-raising task ahead this time, etc, etc) but: This new start is in very marked contrast to that old one. It's good to see.

 

Forgot about that part - clearly recall all the sheeple that vehemently denied it for months on end and became outraged over claims that they did enter. The only purpose being to undermine an event RC organized.

 

Where would we be without your far-sighted and erudite analysis!  

 

Now wouldn't it be nice if you applied your original thinking to the antics of Oracle Racing?



#164 KiwiJoker

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:19 PM

Their openness is a decidedly nice change from the almost-hidden, reluctant and even negative ETNZ campaign approach to AC34.

 

Since you raised it, I never believe or accepted half of the shit you posted about ETNZ ….. and still don't!  :blink:   

 

I was prepared to let it go but it seems you're unable.

 

But I can't fault your work ethic.

 

Should have made it clearer that my comment was about the lead-up (the 'approach') to AC34 when, despite having already filed an entry at the first chance to, they for months refused to even acknowledge their already-underway efforts to campaign for the Cup. Yes there are valid reasons for it (a re-established campaign that damn near won the Cup, probably a far easier fund-raising task ahead this time, etc, etc) but: This new start is in very marked contrast to that old one. It's good to see.

 

Fair enough. But I have no problems with the way Dalts has played the game throughout the AC34 cycle. The mind game is just part of the total package. The Protocol defines the playing field and, correct me if I'm wrong, but Dalts has not been pinged for any significant breaches from the get go. Once scorecard to use is the number of times various teams have been fined or paid costs fot appearances before the IJ. Safe to say that ETNZ is a winner on that  front.



#165 ~Stingray~

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 11:36 PM

Sorry, but I call bullshit on that front.

Go revisit the EtNZ-manufactured 'Ruddergate' threads for the biggest example of the ugliest aspect of the campaign: it was very destructive, ugly, and all the while thoroughly baseless. The team, those close to them, the frothing pitchforkers among their supporters, the media who tuned in to it, the 'culture' that was exhibited, were all disgusting to watch. A product of stupid cospiracy theories and conjured up demons that nobody else would have sunk into those depths for. ETNZ was a big-time loser on especially that front. How you campaign absolutely reflects on you.

GD refers to Board of Directors for governance oversight, for improvement next time? How furking ironic, when his own BOD member wrote in CAPITAL LETTERS that GD should support those Safety Reccommendations, ALL OF THEM. Did GD pay any heed? Would he next time? Of course not, unless they thoroughly share his own misbegotten suspicions and personal demons.

#166 PeterHuston

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:26 AM

Interesting following JS. He is really putting it out there that he has been approached by "lots". Pretty obvious that he is hoping to jack up his fee. I wouldn't have thought it was necessary tho.

With luck, TNZ can retain Burling and Tue plus Will Tiller. 

Running a pair of 45's with 3 lots of potential skippers would be pretty interesting.

I remember LR's Patrizio Bertelli remarking at the conclusion of the LVC that his team's core talent had been raided after 2007 and think he must surely have been including JS in those thoughts. Hard to say what if anything 'lots' really means but it would surprise me if one of the approaches to JS is not from Bertelli. Almost ironic how we read about JS's status from during the San Diego event on almost the same day we heard the good podcast with Draper, who absolutely speaks as if he is signed up as the still-current LR helm.

 

Yes, would like to see Burling, Tue, Tiller and co with ETNZ too. Despite how well they did in the RB YS it will be very hard for them to beat out the vastly experienced and still-physically-in-shape DB, but it would be a good fresh-blood progression for the team's long-term all the same and I expect DB would welcome them to the effort.

 

 

Back to the GD interviews: What he alludes to in his talk about second-guessing some of his own strategy, the board of governance, the decision-making process and authority lines, etc, is an interesting subject. It's actually quite impressive given that it often takes someone more removed from the team's inside operations to have the ability to assess things independently. It's a subject we could probably get into in a semi-constructive way.

 

 

How funny would it be if it is Erne$to that is waving a big check in front of Jimmy.



#167 ~Stingray~

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:39 AM

^ I could definitely imagine that, perhaps even bigger an offer than from Billionaires PB or TT.

JS might really cash in here, and good for him no matter his choice. No AC helm has out worked or outperformed him in recent years, yes including throughout all of that almost-180 races one design ACWS racing. It's not just his helming or starting skills either, he nails every aspect you'd want on your team.

#168 SW Sailor

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:42 AM

 

Should have made it clearer that my comment was about the lead-up (the 'approach') to AC34 when, despite having already filed an entry at the first chance to, they for months refused to even acknowledge their already-underway efforts to campaign for the Cup. Yes there are valid reasons for it (a re-established campaign that damn near won the Cup, probably a far easier fund-raising task ahead this time, etc, etc) but: This new start is in very marked contrast to that old one. It's good to see.

 

Forgot about that part - clearly recall all the sheeple that vehemently denied it for months on end and became outraged over claims that they did enter. The only purpose being to undermine an event RC organized.

 

Where would we be without your far-sighted and erudite analysis!  

 

Now wouldn't it be nice if you applied your original thinking to the antics of Oracle Racing?

 

Apparently you're suggesting this fact be buried or ignored, when nothing but criticism surfaced when it was mentioned at the time. That's OK, I heard nothing but criticism for calling grumpy on undermining the event for three years also, but their probably isn't a hole big enough to bury all that BS either.

 

I respect the fact that you are an ardent supporter of your team, but being an ardent fan doesn't allow you to re-write or bury the facts my friend.

 

And your free to recall anything you'd like, just remember it goes both ways. 



#169 SW Sailor

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:46 AM

Sorry, but I call bullshit on that front.

Go revisit the EtNZ-manufactured 'Ruddergate' threads for the biggest example of the ugliest aspect of the campaign: it was very destructive, ugly, and all the while thoroughly baseless. The team, those close to them, the frothing pitchforkers among their supporters, the media who tuned in to it, the 'culture' that was exhibited, were all disgusting to watch. A product of stupid cospiracy theories and conjured up demons that nobody else would have sunk into those depths for. ETNZ was a big-time loser on especially that front. How you campaign absolutely reflects on you.

GD refers to Board of Directors for governance oversight, for improvement next time? How furking ironic, when his own BOD member wrote in CAPITAL LETTERS that GD should support those Safety Recommendations, ALL OF THEM. Did GD pay any heed? Would he next time? Of course not, unless they thoroughly share his own misbegotten suspicions and personal demons.

 

You seriously need to stop confusing the issue with the facts.

 

He was probably on the take by LE anyway, it just hasn't been speculated as yet - not sure how so many missed it.



#170 SW Sailor

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 12:50 AM

 

Interesting following JS. He is really putting it out there that he has been approached by "lots". Pretty obvious that he is hoping to jack up his fee. I wouldn't have thought it was necessary tho.

With luck, TNZ can retain Burling and Tue plus Will Tiller. 

Running a pair of 45's with 3 lots of potential skippers would be pretty interesting.

I remember LR's Patrizio Bertelli remarking at the conclusion of the LVC that his team's core talent had been raided after 2007 and think he must surely have been including JS in those thoughts. Hard to say what if anything 'lots' really means but it would surprise me if one of the approaches to JS is not from Bertelli. Almost ironic how we read about JS's status from during the San Diego event on almost the same day we heard the good podcast with Draper, who absolutely speaks as if he is signed up as the still-current LR helm.

 

Yes, would like to see Burling, Tue, Tiller and co with ETNZ too. Despite how well they did in the RB YS it will be very hard for them to beat out the vastly experienced and still-physically-in-shape DB, but it would be a good fresh-blood progression for the team's long-term all the same and I expect DB would welcome them to the effort.

 

 

Back to the GD interviews: What he alludes to in his talk about second-guessing some of his own strategy, the board of governance, the decision-making process and authority lines, etc, is an interesting subject. It's actually quite impressive given that it often takes someone more removed from the team's inside operations to have the ability to assess things independently. It's a subject we could probably get into in a semi-constructive way.

 

 

How funny would it be if it is Erne$to that is waving a big check in front of Jimmy.

 

If it undermines LE, I have no doubt he is.

 

How's CNEV doing these days ?



#171 KiwiJoker

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 11:36 PM

Sorry, but I call bullshit on that front.

Go revisit the EtNZ-manufactured 'Ruddergate' threads for the biggest example of the ugliest aspect of the campaign: it was very destructive, ugly, and all the while thoroughly baseless. The team, those close to them, the frothing pitchforkers among their supporters, the media who tuned in to it, the 'culture' that was exhibited, were all disgusting to watch. A product of stupid cospiracy theories and conjured up demons that nobody else would have sunk into those depths for. ETNZ was a big-time loser on especially that front. How you campaign absolutely reflects on you.

GD refers to Board of Directors for governance oversight, for improvement next time? How furking ironic, when his own BOD member wrote in CAPITAL LETTERS that GD should support those Safety Recommendations, ALL OF THEM. Did GD pay any heed? Would he next time? Of course not, unless they thoroughly share his own misbegotten suspicions and personal demons.

 

You seriously need to stop confusing the issue with the facts.

 

He was probably on the take by LE anyway, it just hasn't been speculated as yet - not sure how so many missed it.

 

Around the time that two of Grant Dalton's biggest critics can't even agree with each other is where I bow out  :)



#172 PeterHuston

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:28 AM

 

 

Interesting following JS. He is really putting it out there that he has been approached by "lots". Pretty obvious that he is hoping to jack up his fee. I wouldn't have thought it was necessary tho.

With luck, TNZ can retain Burling and Tue plus Will Tiller. 

Running a pair of 45's with 3 lots of potential skippers would be pretty interesting.

I remember LR's Patrizio Bertelli remarking at the conclusion of the LVC that his team's core talent had been raided after 2007 and think he must surely have been including JS in those thoughts. Hard to say what if anything 'lots' really means but it would surprise me if one of the approaches to JS is not from Bertelli. Almost ironic how we read about JS's status from during the San Diego event on almost the same day we heard the good podcast with Draper, who absolutely speaks as if he is signed up as the still-current LR helm.

 

Yes, would like to see Burling, Tue, Tiller and co with ETNZ too. Despite how well they did in the RB YS it will be very hard for them to beat out the vastly experienced and still-physically-in-shape DB, but it would be a good fresh-blood progression for the team's long-term all the same and I expect DB would welcome them to the effort.

 

 

Back to the GD interviews: What he alludes to in his talk about second-guessing some of his own strategy, the board of governance, the decision-making process and authority lines, etc, is an interesting subject. It's actually quite impressive given that it often takes someone more removed from the team's inside operations to have the ability to assess things independently. It's a subject we could probably get into in a semi-constructive way.

 

 

How funny would it be if it is Erne$to that is waving a big check in front of Jimmy.

 

If it undermines LE, I have no doubt he is.

 

How's CNEV doing these days ?

 

CNEV is doing about as well as ADM.



#173 SW Sailor

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 02:58 AM

 

 

 

Interesting following JS. He is really putting it out there that he has been approached by "lots". Pretty obvious that he is hoping to jack up his fee. I wouldn't have thought it was necessary tho.

With luck, TNZ can retain Burling and Tue plus Will Tiller. 

Running a pair of 45's with 3 lots of potential skippers would be pretty interesting.

I remember LR's Patrizio Bertelli remarking at the conclusion of the LVC that his team's core talent had been raided after 2007 and think he must surely have been including JS in those thoughts. Hard to say what if anything 'lots' really means but it would surprise me if one of the approaches to JS is not from Bertelli. Almost ironic how we read about JS's status from during the San Diego event on almost the same day we heard the good podcast with Draper, who absolutely speaks as if he is signed up as the still-current LR helm.

 

Yes, would like to see Burling, Tue, Tiller and co with ETNZ too. Despite how well they did in the RB YS it will be very hard for them to beat out the vastly experienced and still-physically-in-shape DB, but it would be a good fresh-blood progression for the team's long-term all the same and I expect DB would welcome them to the effort.

 

 

Back to the GD interviews: What he alludes to in his talk about second-guessing some of his own strategy, the board of governance, the decision-making process and authority lines, etc, is an interesting subject. It's actually quite impressive given that it often takes someone more removed from the team's inside operations to have the ability to assess things independently. It's a subject we could probably get into in a semi-constructive way.

 

 

How funny would it be if it is Erne$to that is waving a big check in front of Jimmy.

 

If it undermines LE, I have no doubt he is.

 

How's CNEV doing these days ?

 

CNEV is doing about as well as ADM.

 

That's ok, TC will come in and sort things out ANY minute here with his vast knowledge of the US legal system and set us all straight :)



#174 SW Sailor

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 03:09 AM

 

Sorry, but I call bullshit on that front.

Go revisit the EtNZ-manufactured 'Ruddergate' threads for the biggest example of the ugliest aspect of the campaign: it was very destructive, ugly, and all the while thoroughly baseless. The team, those close to them, the frothing pitchforkers among their supporters, the media who tuned in to it, the 'culture' that was exhibited, were all disgusting to watch. A product of stupid cospiracy theories and conjured up demons that nobody else would have sunk into those depths for. ETNZ was a big-time loser on especially that front. How you campaign absolutely reflects on you.

GD refers to Board of Directors for governance oversight, for improvement next time? How furking ironic, when his own BOD member wrote in CAPITAL LETTERS that GD should support those Safety Recommendations, ALL OF THEM. Did GD pay any heed? Would he next time? Of course not, unless they thoroughly share his own misbegotten suspicions and personal demons.

 

You seriously need to stop confusing the issue with the facts.

 

He was probably on the take by LE anyway, it just hasn't been speculated as yet - not sure how so many missed it.

 

Around the time that two of Grant Dalton's biggest critics can't even agree with each other is where I bow out  :)

 

Keep blindly supporting grumpy and Herbie and you'll be fine.

 

Just don't let the door ...



#175 bluesea

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:29 PM

 

Interesting following JS. He is really putting it out there that he has been approached by "lots". Pretty obvious that he is hoping to jack up his fee. I wouldn't have thought it was necessary tho.

With luck, TNZ can retain Burling and Tue plus Will Tiller. 

Running a pair of 45's with 3 lots of potential skippers would be pretty interesting.

I remember LR's Patrizio Bertelli remarking at the conclusion of the LVC that his team's core talent had been raided after 2007 and think he must surely have been including JS in those thoughts. Hard to say what if anything 'lots' really means but it would surprise me if one of the approaches to JS is not from Bertelli. Almost ironic how we read about JS's status from during the San Diego event on almost the same day we heard the good podcast with Draper, who absolutely speaks as if he is signed up as the still-current LR helm.

 

Yes, would like to see Burling, Tue, Tiller and co with ETNZ too. Despite how well they did in the RB YS it will be very hard for them to beat out the vastly experienced and still-physically-in-shape DB, but it would be a good fresh-blood progression for the team's long-term all the same and I expect DB would welcome them to the effort.

 

 

Back to the GD interviews: What he alludes to in his talk about second-guessing some of his own strategy, the board of governance, the decision-making process and authority lines, etc, is an interesting subject. It's actually quite impressive given that it often takes someone more removed from the team's inside operations to have the ability to assess things independently. It's a subject we could probably get into in a semi-constructive way.

 

 

How funny would it be if it is Erne$to that is waving a big check in front of Jimmy.

 

 

Would be funnier if he went for it.



#176 PeterHuston

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 08:23 PM

 

 

Interesting following JS. He is really putting it out there that he has been approached by "lots". Pretty obvious that he is hoping to jack up his fee. I wouldn't have thought it was necessary tho.

With luck, TNZ can retain Burling and Tue plus Will Tiller. 

Running a pair of 45's with 3 lots of potential skippers would be pretty interesting.

I remember LR's Patrizio Bertelli remarking at the conclusion of the LVC that his team's core talent had been raided after 2007 and think he must surely have been including JS in those thoughts. Hard to say what if anything 'lots' really means but it would surprise me if one of the approaches to JS is not from Bertelli. Almost ironic how we read about JS's status from during the San Diego event on almost the same day we heard the good podcast with Draper, who absolutely speaks as if he is signed up as the still-current LR helm.

 

Yes, would like to see Burling, Tue, Tiller and co with ETNZ too. Despite how well they did in the RB YS it will be very hard for them to beat out the vastly experienced and still-physically-in-shape DB, but it would be a good fresh-blood progression for the team's long-term all the same and I expect DB would welcome them to the effort.

 

 

Back to the GD interviews: What he alludes to in his talk about second-guessing some of his own strategy, the board of governance, the decision-making process and authority lines, etc, is an interesting subject. It's actually quite impressive given that it often takes someone more removed from the team's inside operations to have the ability to assess things independently. It's a subject we could probably get into in a semi-constructive way.

 

 

How funny would it be if it is Erne$to that is waving a big check in front of Jimmy.

 

 

Would be funnier if he went for it.

 

Who'd blame him?  He's got a skill to sell, and he'd be smart go with the highest bidder.

 

Would make for a great story too.







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