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Multihulls in Sydney to Hobart


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#1 NUDDY

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Posted 16 October 2013 - 10:56 PM

http://www.abc.net.a...-hobart/5027068



#2 SeaGul

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 04:25 AM

Well, I  think its the Sydney-Hobart that will need multihulls soon - - if not it will be a second-grade arrangement.....multihulls can do without that race

 

they will surge on anyway..... 



#3 ozmultis

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 05:44 AM

Of course they want to keep multis out, If you just spent many many many millions on a canting keel motorboat, you wouldnt want to be beaten - in fact handed your arse, by a boat costing much much much less.



#4 auscat

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:16 AM

Of course they want to keep multis out, If you just spent many many many millions on a canting keel motorboat, you wouldnt want to be beaten - in fact handed your arse, by a boat costing much much much less.

Ha ha,Oatly probably spends more on mods and sails each year than what the boys paid for either of the big tris.
It won't happen over night but it will happen.

#5 Babel fish

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:36 AM

So....if the race is so bad, why do you want to enter. If you really want to do a syd to Hobart , get your club to put it on, with your association managing all the details.....oh that's right you don,t have any association.....would it be OMR....if you can all agree on what that is ?

Really all you want to do is stick it up the boats you don,t like.....why does it matter so much ?. could it be you want acceptance but can't get over the fact the Mono hull fleet don,t care.....really.

I will now stand back and let you throw rocks.........

#6 SeaGul

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:41 AM

To not allow all qualified sailboats to join a big world known event ... isnt that a kind of racism? 

 

 

 

...and if this is a "no care" for the monos - why not let the multis join? 



#7 Babel fish

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:58 AM

The same tired argument........don,t bring a base ball bat to a cricket game ? It,s not racist at all. Put on your own Sydney Hobart ...

#8 SeaGul

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:33 AM

well its about to bring a sailboat to a regatta....  

 

But dont you think S-H will loose its relevance in the end - when more and more hot boats in the area are multis - and its getting more common for all? 



#9 Babel fish

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:16 AM

Your argument is rather strange.....mono are mono hulls ....lead mines in your charitable speak and then there are sports boats and a range of other sail boats.....to the argument I put....put up a notice of race for multi,s and do your own Hobart, start your own tradition. There is no one stopping you.

Or is ityou just want to do the we are faster than you stuff ?.....not much cred in that. Look at what Langman is doing.....doing it and doing well, putting his money where his mouth is and not having a go at other sail boats.

As to making it more common for all, what multi,s do you expect will do a Hobart that would be common for all and as to hot boats....the foiling moth is pretty hot and as much as it is the wild past show it,s not a 4 knot shit box......AC boats another story but in a class of it,s own
Promote you class of boat on it,s merits and not based on having a go at other craft and laughing at them because you are faster ?

#10 SeaGul

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:02 PM

My basic point is that the S-H Race itself will be the looser in the end by keeping the multis out. 

 

I cant see that you have any argument to that? 

 

Almost all the worlds classic races allow multis - and it just been better sailing and more interesting to be a sailor, and to watch.



#11 Trovão

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:41 PM

My basic point is that the S-H Race itself will be the looser in the end by keeping the multis out. 

 

I cant see that you have any argument to that? 

 

Almost all the worlds classic races allow multis - and it just been better sailing and more interesting to be a sailor, and to watch.

 

using this word annoys me, as if multis were some kind of outlaws or renegades that are trying to re-socialize and managed to be "allowed" in.

 

i'd rather use the word "invited" that usually appears on the SIs of the events - invited classes.



#12 ozmultis

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:45 PM

So....if the race is so bad, why do you want to enter. If you really want to do a syd to Hobart , get your club to put it on, with your association managing all the details.....oh that's right you don,t have any association.....would it be OMR....if you can all agree on what that is ?

Really all you want to do is stick it up the boats you don,t like.....why does it matter so much ?. could it be you want acceptance but can't get over the fact the Mono hull fleet don,t care.....really.

I will now stand back and let you throw rocks.........

Heres a rock.  Mate I couldn't give a crap, I just think that its disappointing that a guy like Langman who has been a CYCA member for a million years and who has supported the race with old and new fast and slow boats is told to piss off.  As for the "tradition"  of the half boat S2H, sure pal, its a been a tradition to have motorboats in sail boat races.  Stupid  stupid race the S2H - the leading boats now have to withdraw if their motor stops, that makes a shit load of sense.

 

 Look at what Langman is doing.....doing it and doing well, putting his money where his mouth is and not having a go at other sail boats.

 Have a look at this interview pal, I think he is pretty cranky with the CYCA  

 

 

http://www.multihull...dney-to-hobart/



#13 Keith

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:11 PM

It's inevitable, There will be a multihull division.

 

It just takes some events, a lot longer too catch up.   ;)



#14 wombat 12m

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:48 PM

Babel fish,

Is the Fastnet, the oldest ocean race in the world, a worse race for having multihulls? I personally don't  think so. I've done it in monos and in multis.The two don't have to be mutually exclusive.The world is a diverse place and the all the better for it.



#15 Scarecrow

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:48 PM

Most of this thread is about the hassle of getting multis up to the safety requirements of the race north which begs the question, with the exception of the big blue boat currently going around the top of New Zealand how many boats in Australia could meet the safety requirements of the Hobart?

 

If multis are serious about being involved they need to present a complete package including.

 

1. A pre-prepared and committed fleet that don't require any concessions with regards to safety of sufficient size  to get the interest of organizers.

2. A division sponsor which doesn't clash with any existing sponsors

3. Be willing to make concessions to keep/ share the spotlight with the monos. eg give the Monos a big head start.  IIRC the Wild Oats record is about is about 42 hours and Team Australia's is about 30 hours.  A 12 hour head start would have the multis starting at 1am so that wont work.  In the spirit of "sharing" multis should be willing to start at 8am the next day.  This has the added advantage of keeping the fleets overlapped for as long as possible and having some big stable platforms coming from behind in the event of boat breakages in the monohull fleet.



#16 Babel fish

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:10 PM

Well, I  think its the Sydney-Hobart that will need multihulls soon - - if not it will be a second-grade arrangement.....multihulls can do without that race
 
they will surge on anyway..... 


So there you go.....Scarecrow has made the most sensible comment so far, maybe the Hobart isn,t second grade ?.......and the multi,s do want to do the race.

#17 PIL007

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:37 PM

Yawn...........again



#18 bush sailer

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:45 PM

I believe that both orma tris will do the Sydney to Hobart this year regardless.



#19 Scarecrow

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:30 PM

Yawn...........again

 Exactly.



#20 SeaGul

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 03:17 PM

Yawn...........again

 Exactly.

 

.... an easy way to end this is to INVITE multis....     and the topic will not end before its done... 

 

Think the most interesting thing with this years race will be the two OMRA 60s starting 2 hours after the fleet...   



#21 Babel fish

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:46 PM

Why do muti,s need an invite......given your diss taste for monos,.why play with them.....get your association to put a race on. If you really think it is such a good thing to do.

#22 auscat

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:55 PM

Why do muti,s need an invite......given your diss taste for monos,.why play with them.....get your association to put a race on. If you really think it is such a good thing to do.

Why is this such a problem for you?What are you afraid of?



#23 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:33 PM

I believe that both orma tris will do the Sydney to Hobart this year regardless.

 

well ...........

 

not "THE Sydney to Hobart"

 

if you had a proper organisation to run the multi 'passage' then you'd have a race

 

problem fixed ! 



#24 ozmultis

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:53 PM

not "THE Sydney to Hobart"

True.  THE sydney to hobart is reserved for motor sailors, run by the CMYCA (Cruising Motor Yacht Club of Australia)



#25 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:05 PM

I note rags is finishing the Vietnam race @ 21 knts 17 miles to go ahead of sumthin that looks like a Gunboat (mach2) 



#26 NUDDY

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:07 PM

Perhaps the worst thing the multihull movement did was to try to join the 'mainstream' (monohull racing).

#27 ozmultis

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:12 PM

I note rags is finishing the Vietnam race @ 21 knts 17 miles to go ahead of sumthin that looks like a Gunboat (mach2) 

A custom purpose built race boat and a production boat - thats a fair comparison.  Like saying the Red Bull Racing Renault beat a Hyundai round a race track.  Pointless.  See I don't get why you would want to make a big deal out of that, but be strident against multis in the Hobart?  

 

Did Rags run its engine all the time.  



#28 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:18 PM

untwist your knickers mate

 

i just noted a multi in a normal offshore yacht race like you are suggesting 

 

the reason you blokes won't get what you want is ppl like you & greenboat

 

and ... lack of an org or body to oversee and regulate ( say what qualifies for a dash south - no 30' flippers)



#29 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:22 PM

Perhaps the worst thing the multihull movement did was to try to join the 'mainstream' (monohull racing).

 

lol, how about that adams 10 owner at your club!



#30 NUDDY

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:40 PM

Perhaps the worst thing the multihull movement did was to try to join the 'mainstream' (monohull racing).

When I started in multis we were outside the 'mainstream'. The only multi that was 'in' was the Tornado (olympic). OTB cats and all the skiff classes were outside, mainly for being ahead of their time allowing (promoting) advertising. The IYRU shunned 'dirty commercialism'. "Gentlemen don't need to advertise and they sail 'proper' boats. Rafts and skiffs are for hooligans and the working class great unwashed."

The AMOC series included Sydney to Brisbane and Brisbane to Gladstone, all run outside the influence of IYRU/AYF.

I applied to join Botany Bay Yacht Club but they told me "NO our constitution specifies ballasted monohull keel yachts only" No worries, there was Botany Bay Catamaran Club and Kurnell Catamaran Club.

We had our own set of regulations which made sense for multihulls.

Then some of us decided to try to join the mainstream and to date we have been partially successful and we pay the price. We are second class members of the mainstream sometimes. Had we kept on our previous course it might well be 'them' trying to join 'us' by now.

Just a thought, can't change history. Too late for a breakaway movement now.



#31 NUDDY

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:45 PM

untwist your knickers mate

 

i just noted a multi in a normal offshore yacht race like you are suggesting 

 

the reason you blokes won't get what you want is ppl like you & greenboat

 

and ... lack of an org or body to oversee and regulate ( say what qualifies for a dash south - no 30' flippers)

We had one but succumbed to AYF and gave away autonomy.



#32 Keith

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:53 PM

It's inevitable, There will be a multihull division.

 

It just takes some events, a lot longer too catch up.   ;)



#33 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:54 PM

nuddy

 

YA will embrace a properly constituted and legal entity ( ie Inc.)

 

look at ASBA as a good example, regattas now seek them out  and embrace the rating sys

 

you blokes had a big headstart on them with yr OMR, that is a prime example of what some infrastructure can do 

 

the yacht clubs won't deal with individuals but will talk to a genuine body, not a couple of cranks pushing their own publicity 



#34 atefooterz

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:46 AM

Perhaps the worst thing the multihull movement did was to try to join the 'mainstream' (monohull racing).

When I started in multis we were outside the 'mainstream'. The only multi that was 'in' was the Tornado (olympic). OTB cats and all the skiff classes were outside, mainly for being ahead of their time allowing (promoting) advertising. The IYRU shunned 'dirty commercialism'. "Gentlemen don't need to advertise and they sail 'proper' boats. Rafts and skiffs are for hooligans and the working class great unwashed."

The AMOC series included Sydney to Brisbane and Brisbane to Gladstone, all run outside the influence of IYRU/AYF.

I applied to join Botany Bay Yacht Club but they told me "NO our constitution specifies ballasted monohull keel yachts only" No worries, there was Botany Bay Catamaran Club and Kurnell Catamaran Club.

We had our own set of regulations which made sense for multihulls.

Then some of us decided to try to join the mainstream and to date we have been partially successful and we pay the price. We are second class members of the mainstream sometimes. Had we kept on our previous course it might well be 'them' trying to join 'us' by now.

Just a thought, can't change history. Too late for a breakaway movement now.

The only reason the skiffs joined the YA, after sponsorship issues were resolved/embraced to keep up with a changing world was for insurance & liability issues, later made use of paid IYRU Judges, in some racing formats.



#35 Babel fish

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:24 AM

Why do muti,s need an invite......given your diss taste for monos,.why play with them.....get your association to put a race on. If you really think it is such a good thing to do.


Why is this such a problem for you?What are you afraid of?

How do you get that I am afraid ?.......I mealy objected to the same old "I am faster you",and the implied you need us because we are better in the original thread .....I enjoy the multi,s........so get on with it.

#36 ozmultis

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:54 PM

untwist your knickers mate

 

i just noted a multi in a normal offshore yacht race like you are suggesting 

 

the reason you blokes won't get what you want is ppl like you & greenboat

 

and ... lack of an org or body to oversee and regulate ( say what qualifies for a dash south - no 30' flippers)

We had one but succumbed to AYF and gave away autonomy.

I was the MYCQ rep at YQ for a number of years.  My head still hurts from battling the stupidity.  

 

Dear Mr Gybe Set, I really dont give a rats whether CMYCA invites multis to compete like it invites motor boats to compete, like it invites sailing monos to compete.  Dont care, I just think its disappointing that one of its honourable long serving members is told to bugger off.  Its a matter for the CMYCA - The Fastnet organisers decided the world wouldnt end if multis were invited.

 

FFS - I will type slowly here so you can understand.  THEY ARE ALL SAILING BOATS (well with the exception of the ones that run their engines all the time)

 

the yacht clubs won't deal with individuals

Say what?  Last time I checked the articles of association for every club I have been a member of - individual members are in fact the rationale for existence.  



#37 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:33 PM

if you don't give a rats why are you still typing

 

so, unless they lay out the red carpet and agree with a members request you say they are treated less respectfully than than they should be ?

rubbish 

 

If a person doesn't get the answer they want they are being wronged, with thousands of like minded leadbelly sailors making up all  the rest of the membership ?

rubbish 

 

because you are so devastated over someones elses business with their club ? rubbish

 

anyway its all business and promotion, especially as this is the subject of the interview on your website, thats it the one you posted the Link to above

 

yeppers, you are driving click traffic to that site



#38 NUDDY

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:35 PM

I was a member of QMYC before it became affiliated and I voted against.

I was the MYCQ rep at YQ for a number of years.  My head still hurts from battling the stupidity.



#39 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:59 PM

Have a look at this interview pal,  
 
 
http://www.multihull...dney-to-hobart/

hey buy a fucking AD

#40 Hangtime

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:21 PM

I Don't think there will ever be acceptance of multi's from the Mono set, The animosity (for want of a better term) between the two is human nature. Its in all forms of sport and will never go away.

  In the sports iv'e participated in over the past 40 years there has always been a dark side -

  Surfers v groms on Esky lids

  Windsurfers v Kitesurfers

  Hang gliders v Parragliders

  Ducati's v Jap bikes v Harley Davidsons

  Mono v Multi.

   Looking at the above posts it would appear that the Multi movement would be better off with its own Govourning body and its own dedicated races.

   Getting kids to start their racing careers on small cheap cats instead of mono's is a big step in the right direction.

    Seeing a group of schoolkids learning to sail on Cats on Pittwater on the Thursday before the recent Lock Crowther memorial regatta put a big smile on my face.

  With what has happened in San Francisco it is an exciting time to be a Multi fan and I hope big positive things have momentum into the future  

  With more organisation I think the Mono's would come to us?!

   Personally im not against mono's, Guilty of the odd tongue in cheek joke now and then I'm all for Leaners. Although I am getting a bit tired of Mono sailors wives tapping on the side of my cruising cat  at midnight wanting to sail away with me because they don't like walking on the galley wall.  



#41 trispirit

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 03:56 AM

I Don't think there will ever be acceptance of multi's from the Mono set, The animosity (for want of a better term) between the two is human nature. Its in all forms of sport and will never go away.

  In the sports iv'e participated in over the past 40 years there has always been a dark side -

  Surfers v groms on Esky lids

  Windsurfers v Kitesurfers

  Hang gliders v Parragliders

  Ducati's v Jap bikes v Harley Davidsons

  Mono v Multi.

   Looking at the above posts it would appear that the Multi movement would be better off with its own Govourning body and its own dedicated races.

   Getting kids to start their racing careers on small cheap cats instead of mono's is a big step in the right direction.

    Seeing a group of schoolkids learning to sail on Cats on Pittwater on the Thursday before the recent Lock Crowther memorial regatta put a big smile on my face.

  With what has happened in San Francisco it is an exciting time to be a Multi fan and I hope big positive things have momentum into the future  

  With more organisation I think the Mono's would come to us?!

   Personally im not against mono's, Guilty of the odd tongue in cheek joke now and then I'm all for Leaners. Although I am getting a bit tired of Mono sailors wives tapping on the side of my cruising cat  at midnight wanting to sail away with me because they don't like walking on the galley wall.  

 

 

 Touche!

 

If you've posted on here over 20,000 times you need to get out sailing a little more, that's not something I'd be proud of.



#42 Tornado_ALIVE

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 04:55 AM

I would love to see Multis invited and believe it will add something to a tired event where channel 7, sorry Wild Oats is the only boat in the race........... That said, Monos over 100 feet are also not invited. Something to think about I guess.

#43 NUDDY

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:04 AM

I Don't think there will ever be acceptance of multi's from the Mono set, The animosity (for want of a better term) between the two is human nature. Its in all forms of sport and will never go away.
  In the sports iv'e participated in over the past 40 years there has always been a dark side -
  Surfers v groms on Esky lids
  Windsurfers v Kitesurfers
  Hang gliders v Parragliders
  Ducati's v Jap bikes v Harley Davidsons
  Mono v Multi.
   Looking at the above posts it would appear that the Multi movement would be better off with its own Govourning body and its own dedicated races.
   Getting kids to start their racing careers on small cheap cats instead of mono's is a big step in the right direction.
    Seeing a group of schoolkids learning to sail on Cats on Pittwater on the Thursday before the recent Lock Crowther memorial regatta put a big smile on my face.
  With what has happened in San Francisco it is an exciting time to be a Multi fan and I hope big positive things have momentum into the future  
  With more organisation I think the Mono's would come to us?!
   Personally im not against mono's, Guilty of the odd tongue in cheek joke now and then I'm all for Leaners. Although I am getting a bit tired of Mono sailors wives tapping on the side of my cruising cat  at midnight wanting to sail away with me because they don't like walking on the galley wall.  

Right. You don't have the same governing body for car racing and motorcycle racing. CAMS governs motor sport but motor cycle racing is motor sport and has nothing to do with cams.
Back when I was involved with SSAA we had a shorthander applying for some federal funding and the government said he had to apply through his 'Peak Body'. The AYF would not support him so he got the SSAA recognised as the peak body for Shorthanded Sailing.

#44 atefooterz

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 05:34 AM

Has GybeSet been nominated as 'Peak Body' yet? if not then there really is a lot of sports boat, skiffing, cat and tri opinions that may just be wasted without proper oversight or official focus.



#45 ozmultis

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:57 AM

so, unless they lay out the red carpet and agree with a members request you say they are treated less respectfully than than they should be ?

rubbish 

 

If a person doesn't get the answer they want they are being wronged, with thousands of like minded leadbelly sailors making up all  the rest of the membership ?

rubbish 

No thats not what I said, I despair when people can't even argue ethically.  And certainly not logically.  Keep it coming pal, Im enjoying this, small things and all that I suppose.



#46 RacecaR

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:04 AM

Assuming that they were allowed and raced down... Where would you berth them?



#47 ozmultis

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 07:21 AM

Allowed or not, two of them are racing down this year, and they will be first to arrive so I suppose they park where they want to.



#48 NUDDY

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:24 AM

Allowed or not, two of them are racing down this year, and they will be first to arrive so I suppose they park where they want to.

Won't be parked for long. Team Aust is entered for Pittwater to Coffs starting on 2nd January, reckon Vodafone might do that  too. They should pass the motor boats somewhere in Bass Strait going the opposite way.



#49 trimariner

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 04:25 PM

Mr and Mrs Parking and the whole Parking family will be parking in Hobart for days after the 2 oRMA 60's are back for the P2C race! Apologys to the Parkins but its 2013! Hehe.



#50 Keith

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:33 PM

Assuming that they were allowed and raced down... Where would you berth them?

If you berth a Orma 60, do you get a multi 23??



#51 Indian Chief

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 11:37 PM

Attached File  TA with CYCA on stern.jpeg   625.95K   48 downloadsHere's a start. How many racing multis have had this yacht clubs initials on their stern!!!



#52 NUDDY

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 01:13 AM

Not many but I did berth there once on XL2 in a RMYC Port Hacking race to Sydney on Sat and return on Sunday.



#53 DtM

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 03:22 AM

I am on the multi side of this fight and I am certain Team Oz will beat Oats. But Nuddy you should remember that Sean got to pick his "perfect" weather window while Oats did not.

#54 PIL007

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 03:46 AM

I am on the multi side of this fight and I am certain Team Oz will beat Oats. But Nuddy you should remember that Sean got to pick his "perfect" weather window while Oats did not.

 

Unless it blew more than 25 in any direction, Team Oz would hose Oats.

The whole argument is stupid yet again. It's their race and fair for them to choose who goes. Is it unfair that Larry Ellison didn't invite Oats in the Americas Cup..? Should Seve Jarvin on Got to love it 7 expect or demand to enter the 49 er titles.......? Maybe these are far out analogies but being pissed off about the CYC not inviting multis is just plain ridiculous. I don't wonder why the mono fleet shake their heads at us. Let's stop playing the victim here.



#55 SCANAS

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 03:49 AM

My guess would be 10 hours difference between oats and TA with LOYAL another 2 hours. They won't be passing each other in bass strait in opposite directions. Oats is faster than her record suggests. She can sit on 30+ consistently like TA. Obviously some huge differences in costs still, there will be more Maxis on the line than tris though.

#56 trispirit

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 10:54 PM

"The organisers of the Sydney to Hobart Race - the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia - has repeatedly ruled out multihulled yachts, saying it wants to preserve the integrity and safety of the race"

 

 

Comments like these are what give people the wrong idea about multihulls and safety, I'd love to know how many SEA miles these people have done in multihulls?  Where does this thought pattern come from? it's a real shame as multihulls are incredibly safe but like anything in the wrong hands can be dangerous. 

 

We need to be more like the French in the way they embrace everything.  To them it's about sailing the passion and not this us and them.  They start with mini's, figaro, open 60's and then they had ORMA and to them it's all about pushing the boundary's and going as fast as they can it's not the BS and crap we have down here with us and them, imagine the potential if we were a unified body all in it for the love of sailing.

 

 

When you think about it though it honestly doesn't make much sense hauling around tons of lead to keep your boat upright does it? but they have been doing it for hundreds of years so lets keep the tradition alive and do as we always have??? WTF!!!

 

 

 



#57 NUDDY

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 01:10 AM

My guess would be 10 hours difference between oats and TA with LOYAL another 2 hours. They won't be passing each other in bass strait in opposite directions. Oats is faster than her record suggests. She can sit on 30+ consistently like TA. Obviously some huge differences in costs still, there will be more Maxis on the line than tris though.

More significant than being able to sit on 30+ constantly would be the VMG to windward at say 15 knots TWS and the VMG downwind at 15 knots TWS. Does Wild Oats still use a spinnaker?



#58 NUDDY

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 01:41 AM

"The organisers of the Sydney to Hobart Race - the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia - has repeatedly ruled out multihulled yachts, saying it wants to preserve the integrity and safety of the race"

 

 

Comments like these are what give people the wrong idea about multihulls and safety, I'd love to know how many SEA miles these people have done in multihulls?

None would be my guess. I did over 30,000 in XL2. I imagine you have done much more.

 Where does this thought pattern come from?

Prejudice and the fact that when ballasted boats have trouble they simply disappear (unless the heel falls off), whereas multihulls inconveniently hang around helping their crew survive and generating headlines.

it's a real shame as multihulls are incredibly safe but like anything in the wrong hands can be dangerous. 

Yes so much safer than a boat in which a small leak below the waterline, or a capsize with a hatch open can mean end of story.

We need to be more like the French in the way they embrace everything.  To them it's about sailing the passion and not this us and them.  They start with mini's, figaro, open 60's and then they had ORMA and to them it's all about pushing the boundary's and going as fast as they can it's not the BS and crap we have down here with us and them, imagine the potential if we were a unified body all in it for the love of sailing.

When you think about it though it honestly doesn't make much sense hauling around tons of lead to keep your boat upright does it?

No sense at all. In most activities when we find a better more efficient way of doing things we adopt it and move on, retaining the old for historical interest. EG mid engines for race cars, hydraulic brakes, disc brakes and many more. In sailing from wood to aluminium to carbon for masts. My first boat had cotton sails. Many more examples in sailing too, but they won't abandon their deadly ballast. They even now resort to having to run the engine to keep the boat sailing! What happened to the sigh of relief when we can hoist the sails and turn the engine off?

 

but they have been doing it for hundreds of years so lets keep the tradition alive and do as we always have??? WTF!!!

And how dare they talk about Safety? They are thumbing their noses at Safety for the sake of tradition. Fair enough but at least admit it. There are many situations where we accept a lower standard of safety for the sake of tradition or excitement. In this case it is for tradition with ignorance, denial, and vested interest.



#59 Keith

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 01:46 AM

That's an excellent clip of this Orma 60 design, in big seas....



#60 SCANAS

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:15 AM

You can't compare the ORMA racing shown above to safe multihull offshore racing downunder. The ORMA guys shown are pro's who push their boats to the limits all year long in the circuit, not weekend warriors.

 

Nuddy I bet you a bottle of sailor jerry's that WOXI will be within 10 hours of TA if either boat doesn't break.



#61 NUDDY

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:41 AM

You can't compare the ORMA racing shown above to safe multihull offshore racing downunder. The ORMA guys shown are pro's who push their boats to the limits all year long in the circuit, not weekend warriors.

 

Nuddy I bet you a bottle of sailor jerry's that WOXI will be within 10 hours of TA if either boat doesn't break.

Excuse my ignorance but what is sailor jerry's and I would need to know who you are before I take on such a wager.



#62 SCANAS

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 03:17 AM

It's a spiced rum about $40 a bottle.

 

I'm a used car salesman, with a drinking and sailing habit, you can trust me :)



#63 DtM

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:03 AM

I trust you SCANAS. You sound very believable !!!!

#64 Babel fish

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:39 AM

I am on the multi side of this fight and I am certain Team Oz will beat Oats. But Nuddy you should remember that Sean got to pick his "perfect" weather window while Oats did not.

 
Unless it blew more than 25 in any direction, Team Oz would hose Oats.
The whole argument is stupid yet again. It's their race and fair for them to choose who goes. Is it unfair that Larry Ellison didn't invite Oats in the Americas Cup..? Should Seve Jarvin on Got to love it 7 expect or demand to enter the 49 er titles.......? Maybe these are far out analogies but being pissed off about the CYC not inviting multis is just plain ridiculous. I don't wonder why the mono fleet shake their heads at us. Let's stop playing the victim here.

If you keep making logical statements the multi guys will turn on you......the constant I want to play but only if you change the rules , and we are faster .....is boring ? As imhave suggested get you association to put out a NOR and enter ?

#65 SCANAS

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 06:55 AM

I trust you SCANAS. You sound very believable !!!!

 

Whats not to trust, right?



#66 NUDDY

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 01:11 PM

I trust you SCANAS. You sound very believable !!!!

 
Whats not to trust, right?

Should not have mentioned the used cars.

#67 NUDDY

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 01:14 PM

It's a spiced rum about $40 a bottle.
 
I'm a used car salesman, with a drinking and sailing habit, you can trust me :)

That's what you are, not who you are.

#68 SCANAS

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:35 PM

It's a spiced rum about $40 a bottle.
 
I'm a used car salesman, with a drinking and sailing habit, you can trust me :)

That's what you are, not who you are.

 

I am going to stay anonymous, otherwise I would have to put a disclaimer at the end of my posts. My views do not neccessarily reflect those .....



#69 ozmultis

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 10:37 PM

 get you association to put out a NOR and enter ?

That is just silly, Just to keep the motorboat lovers happy you are saying that instead on joining into an established race, an established process that they should duplicate everything, duplicate all the infrastructure costs all the organising and aquatic event permits, duplicate all the BOM and AMSA liaison duplicate all the local emergency services liaison, everything, to what end, for what purpose.  What most fair minded and sane people are suggesting is that a club that opened up its entries to professional crews, to motorboats, to all sorts of evolutionary steps, should do what most of the rest of the world has done, and allow sailing boats to enter.

 

Its not hard for you to understand that is it?



#70 Babel fish

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 07:31 AM

Oh how silly of me......I forgot, multi hulls .......find a race that has a long history but no multi,s.....rock up and stamp your feet , so you can play to......and as you suggest all the works been done by a host of paid and volunteer workers in sailing clubs, associations etc etc......and you want to play. I say again get your own shit together and maybe you will have some cred, rather than winging and wining about not being invited ?, ......maybe put some work in.......oh how silly of me

#71 SeaGul

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 07:56 AM

This Cruising Yacht Club of Australia - dont they allow members with multis? If not - what happends if one member sells his mono and buy a multi? 

 

If they allow multi-owners as members  - its strange that they dont allow them to participate in the Syd-Hob their main event. 



#72 Babel fish

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:22 AM

Ok.....now go and challenge the club rules.......really, you thought I was silly, you can,t even stay on task.......how would you do a Hobart with that sort mind set.....maybe ask them to shorten the course for you.....out to the heads and back

#73 trispirit

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:41 AM

Ok.....now go and challenge the club rules.......really, you thought I was silly, you can,t even stay on task.......how would you do a Hobart with that sort mind set.....maybe ask them to shorten the course for you.....out to the heads and back

 

 

Oh how silly of me......I forgot, multi hulls .......find a race that has a long history but no multi,s.....rock up and stamp your feet , so you can play to......and as you suggest all the works been done by a host of paid and volunteer workers in sailing clubs, associations etc etc......and you want to play. I say again get your own shit together and maybe you will have some cred, rather than winging and wining about not being invited ?, ......maybe put some work in.......oh how silly of me

 

 

Where's all this negative come from? why is there so much BS between multi's and monos?  where's the love boys?  don't we all love sailing?  I know I do and if I was was running a multi event I would be stoked to have monos included I'd be doing it for my passion and love for sailing and the water and to share that is what it's all about.  We need to remove our heads from our ass's and to just except each other whether we sail monos, proa's, tri's or cats big or small who gives a shit lets just all race and sail together and lets have a fucking great time, giving each other shit and banter and not taking things to seriously.

 

I'm not whinging about it to me it's the CYCA's loss not to include more boats/classes and more people having fun.  The more types of boats the more diverse the people your going to have interested in what your doing, it's a win win for sailing and for us so what's the issue with it?? SAFETY???  well anyone that's done some serious ocean passages in both mutihulls and mono's knows it's the person behind the helm that creates most of the danger or safety onboard a yacht at sea so that's a load of BS.

 

I hope one day to see multis and monos in the Hobart and to see the two come together would be awesome.



#74 Babel fish

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:27 AM

I feel warm over......but you ruined it with "it's the CYCA loss" just the same crap again......try again

#75 Try Flying

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:05 AM

As much as I understand the desire to join an established race like the SH we get the same arguements for and against....kinda broken record guys.

 

Although  I'm multi sailor I have got to side with Babel on this one.

 

Its their party (CYC) and its RSVP invites only...get over it and do our own. Yes its hard work to organise, yes its expensive, yes there are probably a very small handful of suitable multis in OZ at the moment, yes get on with it!

 

I think Sean is doing the right thing in doing an informal race with Voda however I believe (and I suggested this last year during a similar debate) that a Multihull Sydney to Hobart should actually start at Pittwater and use a "gate" off Sydney heads (ie stay close to the fans of both types of sailing). The main advantage is that it does not encumber the mono fleet inside the harbour and keeps the big guys out of the mayhem of the spectator fleet. This is going to be a real problem for the ORMAS if they start inside the harbour 2 hours after the exclusion zone has been lifted....bad idea IMHO

 You could start both races at the same time and the ORMAs would be punching past syd heads a couple of hours after the mono fleet.

 

If we are truely serious (and I think Sean is) all obstacles of creating an companion race to the SH are surmountable with a bit of creative thinking. Insisting to be invited to someones party that does not need/want/enjoy or care for your company is a waste of effort that could be better spent sailing.



#76 Babel fish

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:45 AM

As much as I understand the desire to join an established race like the SH we get the same arguements for and against....kinda broken record guys.
 
Although  I'm multi sailor I have got to side with Babel on this one.
 
Its their party (CYC) and its RSVP invites only...get over it and do our own. Yes its hard work to organise, yes its expensive, yes there are probably a very small handful of suitable multis in OZ at the moment, yes get on with it!
 
I think Sean is doing the right thing in doing an informal race with Voda however I believe (and I suggested this last year during a similar debate) that a Multihull Sydney to Hobart should actually start at Pittwater and use a "gate" off Sydney heads (ie stay close to the fans of both types of sailing). The main advantage is that it does not encumber the mono fleet inside the harbour and keeps the big guys out of the mayhem of the spectator fleet. This is going to be a real problem for the ORMAS if they start inside the harbour 2 hours after the exclusion zone has been lifted....bad idea IMHO
 You could start both races at the same time and the ORMAs would be punching past syd heads a couple of hours after the mono fleet.
 
If we are truely serious (and I think Sean is) all obstacles of creating an companion race to the SH are surmountable with a bit of creative thinking. Insisting to be invited to someones party that does not need/want/enjoy or care for your company is a waste of effort that could be better spent sailing.


Well well.....your in trouble, making sense like that......I agree.....I would support it and enjoy the racing. I also commend Sean in his effort....don,t winge just do it

#77 PIL007

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:04 PM

Babel fish, on 23 Oct 2013 - 22:34, said:


Try Flying, on 23 Oct 2013 - 21:54, said:
As much as I understand the desire to join an established race like the SH we get the same arguements for and against....kinda broken record guys.

Although I'm multi sailor I have got to side with Babel on this one.

Its their party (CYC) and its RSVP invites only...get over it and do our own. Yes its hard work to organise, yes its expensive, yes there are probably a very small handful of suitable multis in OZ at the moment, yes get on with it!

I think Sean is doing the right thing in doing an informal race with Voda however I believe (and I suggested this last year during a similar debate) that a Multihull Sydney to Hobart should actually start at Pittwater and use a "gate" off Sydney heads (ie stay close to the fans of both types of sailing). The main advantage is that it does not encumber the mono fleet inside the harbour and keeps the big guys out of the mayhem of the spectator fleet. This is going to be a real problem for the ORMAS if they start inside the harbour 2 hours after the exclusion zone has been lifted....bad idea IMHO
You could start both races at the same time and the ORMAs would be punching past syd heads a couple of hours after the mono fleet.

If we are truely serious (and I think Sean is) all obstacles of creating an companion race to the SH are surmountable with a bit of creative thinking. Insisting to be invited to someones party that does not need/want/enjoy or care for your company is a waste of effort that could be better spent sailing.

Well well.....your in trouble, making sense like that......I agree.....I would support it and enjoy the racing. I also commend Sean in his effort....don,t winge just do it
Right on boys
BTW...The CYC do have multi members and Sean is one but there is a space problem for monos let alone multis.
Some on here will know i'm a sailing speed/ multi freak and have been for 40 years but at the moment i'm sailboatless so I sail every week at the CYC on a mono (Brindabella now, previously Shockwave and VO 60). I know personally at least 5 previous Commodores and they're all sensible guys and none are multi haters (that I know of) so lets not direct negativity at the CY or it's members because truth be know, they would all kill to get a ride on Sean's ORMA 60. Point is, I find it ridiculous for us to expect them to organise a division for a class they are not familiar with and can't cater for. Even if they could, why should they..? If 5-10 owners presented them with something solid, they even may consider it but where are the 5-10 owners..? I know of 3-4 maybe.
Lastly, this topic has now been rehashed a gazilion times and although I like beating the multi drum, I dislike the "us and them", It's been beat to death. Get over it and move on.

PS. Ozmultis.....you are wrong again....and btw as said on the other thread, Seawind Multihulls paid a pittance in the dollar (now settled) and all the little people lost while they restarted overseas. Very poor form.

#78 SeaGul

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:07 AM

At least this year they have two OMRA 60s in the area.... how many boats are there in the "Wild Oates" class? 

 

And why is this topic coming up every year? Because its not over before the multis are in...  when a prominent sailor/member like the owner of TA wants to join and does thats much - as doing a show race - the right time is now.

 

I live on the other side of the world - those days after Christmas - there is  not much going on - the  S-H race is getting more attention every year as the TV coverage are getting better. This year - after the AC - people will ask - where are the multis?



#79 Try Flying

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:59 AM

TV coverage getting better!?! Looks like we need to move to Norway as the coverage down here is horrible...Give it to SBS and do it right! .....Ah don't get me started :)



#80 ntman

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:19 AM

So one of the other classic Australian ocean races has opened entries to multihulls ( pittwater to coffs) and then all the multi owners who may be able to compete bitch and moan about the safety standards and how hard and expensive it all is and want the established standards changed.



#81 ozmultis

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:54 AM

So one of the other classic Australian ocean races has opened entries to multihulls ( pittwater to coffs) and then all the multi owners who may be able to compete bitch and moan about the safety standards and how hard and expensive it all is and want the established standards changed.

Yeah cause like HF radio is so 21st century



#82 ozmultis

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:00 AM



 

PS. Ozmultis.....you are wrong again....and btw as said on the other thread, Seawind Multihulls paid a pittance in the dollar (now settled) and all the little people lost while they restarted overseas. Very poor form.

 

Specifically where was I wrong PIL.

 

 And what on earth has the Seawind administration got to do with this topic?  Oh and BTW I was one of the little people.  In fact I lost as much as anyone.  And they didn't restart, they went into administration and traded out.  Did not not stop and restart, but hey why let facts get in the way of your bias.  

 

AND why do you direct the comments about Seawind at me, I am not seawind, I am a seawind outremer and corsair agent.  

 

Then again - Why am I bothering to even discuss this with someone who obviously either doesn't know, or chooses to lie.  Fool or liar, which are you.  



#83 rantifarian

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:18 AM

So one of the other classic Australian ocean races has opened entries to multihulls ( pittwater to coffs) and then all the multi owners who may be able to compete bitch and moan about the safety standards and how hard and expensive it all is and want the established standards changed.


Yeah cause like HF radio is so 21st century

So what other long range general broadcast medium are you proposing?

#84 SCANAS

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:12 AM

Leave the Coffs stuff in the Coffs thread.

5 100 footers entered so quite a few, 2 capable of playing / beating oats. Entire clipper fleet, two older clipper boats, heavily modded VO70, new beau geste, new Ichi ban, 5 45 benes 4 40 benes. No shortage of racing in the monos!!!!!

Did Sean invite any other multis or is this adrag race which TA will win.

#85 ozmultis

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:28 AM

Just as a matter of record - this thread is in the MULTIHULL Forum, so not surprising if there is a discussion about multis.  I would and could understand if the motorboat supporters were getting all antsy if this discussion was in the Ocean racing Forum, but no its in an area where one might reasonably expect to see multihulls being discussed.  



#86 ozmultis

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:29 AM

 

So one of the other classic Australian ocean races has opened entries to multihulls ( pittwater to coffs) and then all the multi owners who may be able to compete bitch and moan about the safety standards and how hard and expensive it all is and want the established standards changed.


Yeah cause like HF radio is so 21st century

So what other long range general broadcast medium are you proposing?

None, there are better solutions.  

 

what is the purpose of the HF radio?  Serious question, what purpose is fulfilled by having it on the boat.  I can think of a few and there are alternatives for each purpose that are better, cheaper and more reliable.  



#87 SCANAS

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:03 AM

Just as a matter of record - this thread is in the MULTIHULL Forum, so not surprising if there is a discussion about multis.  I would and could understand if the motorboat supporters were getting all antsy if this discussion was in the Ocean racing Forum, but no its in an area where one might reasonably expect to see multihulls being discussed.  


OZ are you 4ft tall? Why do you want to attack everyone? If you read the whole page - not just your own hype you'll realise I was pointing out that the monos have lots of racing on 26th and its sad the MULTIS don't.

#88 rantifarian

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:23 AM


 


So one of the other classic Australian ocean races has opened entries to multihulls ( pittwater to coffs) and then all the multi owners who may be able to compete bitch and moan about the safety standards and how hard and expensive it all is and want the established standards changed.

Yeah cause like HF radio is so 21st century
So what other long range general broadcast medium are you proposing?
None, there are better solutions.  
 
what is the purpose of the HF radio?  Serious question, what purpose is fulfilled by having it on the boat.  I can think of a few and there are alternatives for each purpose that are better, cheaper and more reliable.  
So what is your solution ? Not attacking, genuinely interested, because I think HF is a prick to use. How do you, with reliability, do fleet wide scheds, or long distance rescue etc, for a race like the Hobart?

#89 NUDDY

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 12:41 PM

So one of the other classic Australian ocean races has opened entries to multihulls ( pittwater to coffs) and then all the multi owners who may be able to compete bitch and moan about the safety standards and how hard and expensive it all is and want the established standards changed.

Same with the mono owners. We have 5 multihull entries and 7 monohull entries. All the rest are waiting on a decision on the HF.



#90 dlymn

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 08:12 PM

the SH is going to be one hell of a race this year.  I'm looking forward to it.  Now all we need are a few  Vendee Globe boats, an AC72 or maybe 2 (Oh I forgot, it won't be flat and the wind will get higher than a fresh breeze) and why not Hydroptere.  Better still, that great ozzie boat, Vestas Sailrocket 2



#91 PIL007

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:12 PM

the SH is going to be one hell of a race this year.  I'm looking forward to it.  Now all we need are a few  Vendee Globe boats, an AC72 or maybe 2 (Oh I forgot, it won't be flat and the wind will get higher than a fresh breeze) and why not Hydroptere.  Better still, that great ozzie boat, Vestas Sailrocket 2

 That's good and why not throw in Reid Stowe and his bevy of beauties just for laughs....all photographed by Nicole Scott.

In all seriousness, multis or not, this will be a great spectacle with all the supermaxis as said and the highly anticipated match between Oats and Speedrambloyal.

BTW...OZ, I love to fish and clearly, you love to bite.....carry on.



#92 auscat

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:27 PM

Larso and Sailrocket  may only be a couple of years away from a S2H.He's already testing models of a 100ft version for off shore records so look out.S2H in 6 hrs?  

the SH is going to be one hell of a race this year.  I'm looking forward to it.  Now all we need are a few  Vendee Globe boats, an AC72 or maybe 2 (Oh I forgot, it won't be flat and the wind will get higher than a fresh breeze) and why not Hydroptere.  Better still, that great ozzie boat, Vestas Sailrocket 2



#93 bush sailer

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:59 PM

hf solution is very easy yellowbrick trackers and sat phones works perfectly.



#94 bush sailer

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:04 PM

thinking of doing the race on Rushour if there is no HF requirement



#95 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:26 PM

i think the only multis that can't beat a mono are ozmultis condominiums

 

won't stop the that pelican from trying to re-ignite and 'beat Up' the mono/multi "troubles" to drive traffic to his own websites though

 

he's acting the firefighter/victim

 

 yet is caught with the can of petrol and matches in his hands 



#96 ozmultis

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:05 PM

And what boat do you own GYBE SET?



#97 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:52 AM

why are you gonna set it on fire 

 

you fucking PELICAN



#98 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:27 AM

.
and yet another bout of beat-up and sensationalism, and self promotion by parasites of the sport

Pelican # 2 ( Nth Hemis verison) front page

" Team Australia and Team Vodafone will race against each other in the Sydney-Hobart! "

 

well .........

 

 

 

NO, they are not 



#99 PIL007

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:07 AM

.
and yet another bout of beat-up and sensationalism, and self promotion by parasites of the sport

Pelican # 2 ( Nth Hemis verison) front page

" Team Australia and Team Vodafone will race against each other in the Sydney-Hobart! "

 

well .........

 

 

 

NO, they are not 

 

Nooooooooooo.............will this train wreck (version 723 of multis in the Hobart) ever die..?

It's so horrible yet, somehow, I can't look away.



#100 PIL007

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:15 AM

IMHO...I believe both boats should leave before the fleet for safety. Unless they can power through the fleet before dark. Imagine those two coming at you in the middle of the night.






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