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Multihulls in Sydney to Hobart


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#101 DtM

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:34 AM

PIL I agree this is a train wreck thread and I too cannot look away.

Surely, unless it hard on the wind they will have passed all but a few by the time it is dark. Sunset is 8 pm (ish) and there is still light after that for maybe an hour.

That gives them 5 or 6 hours to deal with the vast majority of the fleet.

Maybe they should start only 1 hour behind

#102 trispirit

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:31 AM

I heard a rumour that TVS haven't confirmed they're doing the SYDNEY TO HOBART :-) so that means TA may not do the SYDNEY TO HOBART so let's not get too excited.  I'd also like to hope that no matter what time they leave or from where they depart they could manage to get passed the other boats, fuck me that should be the least of their problems!



#103 SCANAS

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:58 AM

This is how you pass a slower boat from a Trimaran, skip to 050

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=l2TwosgNLzg



#104 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:19 PM

I heard a rumour that TVS haven't confirmed they're doing the SYDNEY TO HOBART :-) so that means TA may not do the SYDNEY TO HOBART so let's not get too excited.  I'd also like to hope that no matter what time they leave or from where they depart they could manage to get passed the other boats, fuck me that should be the least of their problems!

 

not o mention they are NOT an entry in the S2Cofffs

 

more bullshit from the local PR machine



#105 NUDDY

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:31 PM

Who said TVS is entered for S2C?

#106 trispirit

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:47 PM

I heard a rumour that TVS haven't confirmed they're doing the SYDNEY TO HOBART :-) so that means TA may not do the SYDNEY TO HOBART so let's not get too excited.  I'd also like to hope that no matter what time they leave or from where they depart they could manage to get passed the other boats, fuck me that should be the least of their problems!

 

not o mention they are NOT an entry in the S2Cofffs

 

more bullshit from the local PR machine

 

Yeah and SO? what's the point? how about posting something positive guys instead of all this negative us and them crap, let's move on.  No matter what you think seeing the awesome 100 maxi's and smaller fast monos smoking down the coast with multi's would be way cool you can't deny that.  

 

Seeing all the boats at race week this year in Airlie was great and to be able to compare your boat speed and angles to other boats mono or multi is great especially when racing, isn't that what is about.  The more the merrier ;-) bring it on if I could get the boat down to Sydney in time i'd be trying to do both the HOBART with the big boys and also the S2C's what a blast!



#107 Hangtime

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 08:19 PM

I'll deliver Spirit for you Jase, and crew too!

 

I heard a rumour that TVS haven't confirmed they're doing the SYDNEY TO HOBART :-) so that means TA may not do the SYDNEY TO HOBART so let's not get too excited.  I'd also like to hope that no matter what time they leave or from where they depart they could manage to get passed the other boats, fuck me that should be the least of their problems!

 

not o mention they are NOT an entry in the S2Cofffs

 

more bullshit from the local PR machine

 

Yeah and SO? what's the point? how about posting something positive guys instead of all this negative us and them crap, let's move on.  No matter what you think seeing the awesome 100 maxi's and smaller fast monos smoking down the coast with multi's would be way cool you can't deny that.  

 

Seeing all the boats at race week this year in Airlie was great and to be able to compare your boat speed and angles to other boats mono or multi is great especially when racing, isn't that what is about.  The more the merrier ;-) bring it on if I could get the boat down to Sydney in time i'd be trying to do both the HOBART with the big boys and also the S2C's what a blast!



#108 ozmultis

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 08:32 PM

why are you gonna set it on fire 

 

you fucking PELICAN

Hadn't thought of that.  But no, perhaps you would do well to not ascribe your own values to other people.  

 

No, my point was that most people I know who own boats don't tend to criticise the next man's boat, they tend to accept and respect a fellow sailor.  I usually find is bludgers who don't own a boat who are most strident about particular designs and brands etc.  

 

I also wondered if you owned a boat, cause with 20,000 posts that would suggest that you are locked to a computer rather than out sailing.  

 

Anyway, FY2



#109 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 09:43 PM

says the man who is fuelling, actually re-creating the mono / multi debate ... via the INTERNET

 

1 if you don't want to hack on other peoples boats don't start the divide between types

 

2. you are on the net everyday, re boat ownership, it's not mutually exclusive, what a daft suggestion 

 

my posts here are not being 'type' biased , you are enhancing the rift, which had disappeared off the airwaves, good on ya mate

 

I'm excited the boats are going to Coffs, eligibility requirements are non negotiable generally. Trailable monos don't get to play either. A melges 32 would have the same issues mentioned here, distinct from say Tow Trucks CAT1 for the S2H, obviously she fitted all the clobber.

 

fingers crossed



#110 NUDDY

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:04 PM

Pittwater to Coffs is dying. They invited multis to try to save it. Hasn't worked. the salvation of the race will be cat 3 or at the very least dump the HF. They have 7 mono entries and 5 multis. 4 of the multis are dependent on dumping the HF. If they don't dump the HF will they run the race for 8 boats? Plenty of mono's which would enter if they dump the HF. Boats which have HF from a few years back no longer comply with the latest HF rules and need to buy the new ICOM which is the only one approved.

Sticking to 19th century communications is killing the race.



#111 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:06 PM

do recent years numbers support the 'dying' theme ?

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

maybe honestjohn could propose a singlehanded division & show em how to do it right?



#112 eric e

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 12:30 AM

looking fwd to seeing the 2 big ormas 

 

in the big southern race



#113 honestjohn

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 08:33 AM

do recent years numbers support the 'dying' theme ?

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

maybe honestjohn could propose a singlehanded division & show em how to do it right?

don't drag me into this shitfight!



#114 Jethrow

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 11:48 AM

I'm doing my bit to mend the rift. I'm probably going to Coffs this year on a mono and maybe next year on a multi. I'll still be looking out for my multi brethren in the bar after, even if they're arriving before me...



#115 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 12:11 PM

looking fwd to seeing the 2 big ormas 

 

in the big southern race

 

which southern 'bi race' do you mean



#116 eric e

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 12:40 PM

S2H



#117 HILLY

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 01:30 PM

Pittwater to Coffs is dying. They invited multis to try to save it. Hasn't worked. the salvation of the race will be cat 3 or at the very least dump the HF. They have 7 mono entries and 5 multis. 4 of the multis are dependent on dumping the HF. If they don't dump the HF will they run the race for 8 boats? Plenty of mono's which would enter if they dump the HF. Boats which have HF from a few years back no longer comply with the latest HF rules and need to buy the new ICOM which is the only one approved.

Sticking to 19th century communications is killing the race.

 

Well they have just dropped the H.F. requirment.

 

http://www.pittwater...r-to-coffs-race

The Royal Prince Alfred Yacht Club hosts of the Club Marine Pittwater to Coffs Harbour race, have announced that boats will be allowed to compete in the 33rd running of the event carrying a satellite phone as an alternative to HF radio for communication purposes.

Now if they only made it cat.3 to allow boats with outboards.....



#118 NUDDY

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 01:51 PM

do recent years numbers support the 'dying' theme ?
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
maybe honestjohn could propose a singlehanded division & show em how to do it right?


Done it several times double handed on XL2 with SSAA.

#119 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 08:20 PM



looking fwd to seeing the 2 big ormas 
 
in the big southern race

 
which southern 'big race' do you mean


S2H


no they're not in that

http://www.multihull....nz/events.html

#120 eric e

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:44 AM

pity

 

still

 

just 1 

 

will be fun



#121 DtM

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 05:52 AM

Funny how this thread has generated more posts than the Coffs thread which is allowing Multis!

#122 Babel fish

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 06:55 AM

Good to see when left to your own , you still manage to fight......I did notice the multis didn,t want the HF radios....and the club has changed this.....so I guess you will all want to use your phones and facebook for the Hobart ?.......I can hear the sound of stamping feet, you need us and we are fast.

So, if multis did get an invite ......what boats would it be, ......any thing over 11 meters ?

#123 trispirit

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 07:15 AM

Good to see when left to your own , you still manage to fight......I did notice the multis didn,t want the HF radios....and the club has changed this.....so I guess you will all want to use your phones and facebook for the Hobart ?.......I can hear the sound of stamping feet, you need us and we are fast.

So, if multis did get an invite ......what boats would it be, ......any thing over 11 meters ?

 

Why keep digging? what's your point? have you not made it 20,000 times over? maybe if multis were allowed in larger coastal races, which is slowly happening there would be some larger more serious ones around?  All in all it will be good for sailing and this can't be denied.  The more classes the more people will watch and the more interest it generates.  It's great to see the RPAYC has change things and I'm sure it wasn't for the whinging multi owners only :-) it's also great to seem them changing with the times.  People hate change especially sailors and clubs so well done to them, really wish I could make down to show appreciation.

 

 

 

looking fwd to seeing the 2 big ormas 
 
in the big southern race

 
which southern 'big race' do you mean

 

S2H

 

no they're not in that

http://www.multihull....nz/events.html

 

This was there 2013 season and you can see that they have just done the Coastal, which is the last race on the list.  Things haven't been put in stone yet but with TA just kicking their ass I'm sure there is some more incentive for them to come play in OZ now and what a sight it would be.



#124 Babel fish

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 08:33 AM

What's my point......multis want to be part of racing ...all the monos hear is about how fast they are, we will kick your arse etc etc..yet when given the chance they then want the rules changed or they don,t turn up. Oh, and we need them for the good of racing.

Well I don,t think we do need you ? And you don,t need us, I we don,t care if your faster......my point is you would have some cred if you all got your shit together and started your own races or raced for your own throphys.....what ever. Give up on the having a go at monos and sailed your boats and did it with some respect .

I am sure you will mis read this but that's the nature of it.....

#125 SeaGul

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 09:21 AM

What's my point......multis want to be part of racing ...all the monos hear is about how fast they are, we will kick your arse etc etc..yet when given the chance they then want the rules changed or they don,t turn up. Oh, and we need them for the good of racing.

Well I don,t think we do need you ? And you don,t need us, I we don,t care if your faster......my point is you would have some cred if you all got your shit together and started your own races or raced for your own throphys.....what ever. Give up on the having a go at monos and sailed your boats and did it with some respect .

I am sure you will mis read this but that's the nature of it.....

 

 

Well ...most parts of the world are way past this stage...



#126 Babel fish

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 09:25 AM

Not much evidence if you look at the comments on this thread......

#127 SeaGul

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 09:45 AM

If you look at the major races you will find the evidence..



#128 Babel fish

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 09:50 AM

You can,t read.......in this thread, apart from a couple of comments .....there is still the same stupid comments.......your inability to follow a thread is probaly why your class of boat a bad deal......your can,t get pasted your own thoughts and you don,t listen.

#129 Babel fish

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 10:15 AM

So long and thanks for all the fish........

#130 atefooterz

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 10:31 AM

ur can,t get pasted your own thoughts and you don,t listen.

OMG what lang. is dat?



#131 trispirit

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 10:34 AM

What's my point......multis want to be part of racing YES OF COURSE WE'D LIKE THE CHANCE TO PARTICIPATE IN AS MUCH RACING AS POSSIBLE ...all the monos hear is about how fast they are, we will kick your arse etc etc. WELL YES THIS IS TRUE IT'S LIKE COMPARING A SUPERBIKE TO A V8 CAR .yet when given the chance they then want the rules changed or they don,t turn up NO SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST STATING HOW SOME ITEMS IN THE RULES WILL STOP THEM FROM ENTERING Oh, and we need them for the good of racing...FOR THE GOOD OF SAILING ACTUALLY AND YES ALL COMING TOGETHER WILL HELP OUR CAUSE WHICH IS SHARING OUR PASSION OF SAILING TO OTHERS.

Well I don,t think we do need you TRUE YOU DON'T? And you don,t need us, TRUE AGAIN I we don,t care if your faster....NOT SURE ABOUT THIS I THINK YOU DO CARE AND MAYBE HAVE SMALL ISSUES WITH IT??..my point is you would have some cred if you all got your shit together and started your own races or raced for your own throphys.....what ever..... WE DO HAVE OUR OWN RACES ACTUALLY JUST HAD OUR NATIONALS COMBINED WITH RACE WEEK IN AIRLIE BEACH AND WHAT A BLAST IT WAS TO RACE WITH ALL THE SPORTS BOATS AND MONOS ;-) IT WAS FUN FOR ALL. Give up on the having a go at monos and sailed your boats and did it with some respect........ I CAN'T SEE ANYONE HERE HAVING A GO A MONOS?

I am sure you will mis read this but that's the nature of it..... I USED BABELFISH TO TRANSLATE IT AND NOW IT ALL MAKES SENSE ;-)

 

Your correct there is this attitude by some NOT ALL though!  At race week in Airlie Beach I meet some guys who were obviously from a mono.  When asked what boat we were off our reply was meet with oh yeah you guys are the ones that have to go like this downwind with hand signals of zig zagging...... so to me it feels like it's some of the mono guys that have issues.  I always hear from mono sailors how high we don't point but what's really funny is that all these guys have never sailed on a multi but yet have judgements to make on them based upon hearsay.

 

You'll find that most of the things brought up in this topic were well based.  Why on a coastal race do we still need to have HF radios? I've sailed halfway around the world without one and they are expensive to fit, a hassle to use and honestly there is better ways to communicate out there so it's a well founded topic.  You'll also find most of the mono guys would agree, so people aren't saying change the rules or we won't race they're purely stating how these things will stop them from racing, fair enough in the multihull section of the forum to make these statements isn't it? 

 

Let's face a fact we really are behind the times not just with our attitudes of us and them but also with our non-involvement of multis in a lot of races, mind you though this is changing rapidly with Hamilton Island now allowing them back in and also the S2C's race allowing them.  It's only the Hobart to go and that will be most of the major races and regattas that include them in Oz......... it is only a matter of time. 



#132 Babel fish

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 11:28 AM

I was going to leave, but youmhave put such a good effort into a logical well written response , I can,t resist ......the only point I disagree with is ......I have no issue with your boats being fast, or in fact other boats being faster than mine.....it,s the way it is.

I sail both types of boats and have sailed many and varied sailing boats, including square rigged ships......they all have merit......I just take expeption to other sailors having a go at sailors being slower or what ever ......the multi thing needs to grow up a bit and just join in to enjoy sailing and not to have a go at others.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

#133 Keith

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 02:33 PM

It's inevitable, There will be a multihull division.

 

It just takes some events, a lot longer too catch up.   ;)



#134 ColinG

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:50 AM

One big reason why there will not be any multis in the S2H soon is that channel 7 doesn't sponsor Team Australia!

 

Thinking laterally,  why not do a parallel race starting from Pittwater?  It's the home of multi racing in Sydney anyway.  Get  RMYC to be the organising body (RPAYC probably a bit busy with the P2C).  Do some deal with the authorities (and CYCA?) to share rescue/support services. 

 

Share the finishing line as well - no big deal there as its fixed and RYCT will be recording boats anyway.

 

I am sure you could find somewhere  to moor/tie up a few multis without getting in the way of the S2H fleet.

 

Its about 20Nm from Scotland Island to North Head.  If the mutis started from just north of Scotland Island at 12pm, the fleets would start to merge somewhere between the heads and Botany Bay, although I dare say that the Multi fleet would be a lot further out to sea.  Positions would be well sorted out before sunset, so there would no concerns about any of the smaller monos getting a picklefork up the tailpipe!  Conversely, the faster mono's should be well ahead of the smaller multis.

 

TV would also be able to cover both (doesn't take long for a chopper to go from Palm Beach to Sydney Harbour) and I bet you could build a decent spectator fleet in Pittwater without detracting from the S2H.

 

The nice thing with different length course and different starting places is that although they will be on the same water at the same time, the two fleets are not really racing each other, and gives plenty of scope for bar arguments about who was really faster without it getting too serious.

 

5 or 10 years down the track, the two clubs may decide to join the races together, maybe not.  With this solution, it really does not matter. Two races or two divisions, who cares?

 

EDIT:  Another thought - to get the numbers up, a cat 3 race could also be run at the same time - Pittwater to Jervis Bay.  Just over 100 Nm, night time finish, with a return race on the 28th, just in time to do the P2C.  If the CYCA was smart it would consider something like that for the monos as well.  I reckon you could easily get another 50 or more boats on the starting line if they only going to Jervis Bay and if they only needed cat 3.  Build up the spectacle.



#135 NUDDY

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 01:39 PM

One big reason why there will not be any multis in the S2H soon is that channel 7 doesn't sponsor Team Australia!
 
Thinking laterally,  why not do a parallel race starting from Pittwater?  It's the home of multi racing in Sydney anyway.  Get  RMYC to be the organising body (RPAYC probably a bit busy with the P2C).  Do some deal with the authorities (and CYCA?) to share rescue/support services. 
 
Share the finishing line as well - no big deal there as its fixed and RYCT will be recording boats anyway.
 
I am sure you could find somewhere  to moor/tie up a few multis without getting in the way of the S2H fleet.
 
Its about 20Nm from Scotland Island to North Head.  If the mutis started from just north of Scotland Island at 12pm, the fleets would start to merge somewhere between the heads and Botany Bay, although I dare say that the Multi fleet would be a lot further out to sea.  Positions would be well sorted out before sunset, so there would no concerns about any of the smaller monos getting a picklefork up the tailpipe!  Conversely, the faster mono's should be well ahead of the smaller multis.
 
TV would also be able to cover both (doesn't take long for a chopper to go from Palm Beach to Sydney Harbour) and I bet you could build a decent spectator fleet in Pittwater without detracting from the S2H.
 
The nice thing with different length course and different starting places is that although they will be on the same water at the same time, the two fleets are not really racing each other, and gives plenty of scope for bar arguments about who was really faster without it getting too serious.
 
5 or 10 years down the track, the two clubs may decide to join the races together, maybe not.  With this solution, it really does not matter. Two races or two divisions, who cares?
 
EDIT:  Another thought - to get the numbers up, a cat 3 race could also be run at the same time - Pittwater to Jervis Bay.  Just over 100 Nm, night time finish, with a return race on the 28th, just in time to do the P2C.  If the CYCA was smart it would consider something like that for the monos as well.  I reckon you could easily get another 50 or more boats on the starting line if they only going to Jervis Bay and if they only needed cat 3.  Build up the spectacle.

Excellent suggestions. That could all work. Back in 92 we were delivering XL2 to Westernport for SOMR and we left Pittwater in time to see the leaders come out of the heads. Then we passed them all and stayed just in front till the next day when they peeled off to the East and we continued down the coast. Downwind race up to that point of course.

#136 Chris 249

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:07 AM

To not allow all qualified sailboats to join a big world known event ... isnt that a kind of racism? 

 

 

 

...and if this is a "no care" for the monos - why not let the multis join? 

 

What a stupid argument. Every sport has restrictions on the gear that can enter events.

 

You don't allow all bicycles to join the Tour de France.

 

You don't allow all cars to do the Monaco Grand Prix.

 

You don't allow cars to do motorcycle races.

 

 

untwist your knickers mate

 

i just noted a multi in a normal offshore yacht race like you are suggesting 

 

the reason you blokes won't get what you want is ppl like you & greenboat

 

and ... lack of an org or body to oversee and regulate ( say what qualifies for a dash south - no 30' flippers)

We had one but succumbed to AYF and gave away autonomy.

I was the MYCQ rep at YQ for a number of years.  My head still hurts from battling the stupidity.  

 

Dear Mr Gybe Set, I really dont give a rats whether CMYCA invites multis to compete like it invites motor boats to compete, like it invites sailing monos to compete.  Dont care, I just think its disappointing that one of its honourable long serving members is told to bugger off.  Its a matter for the CMYCA - The Fastnet organisers decided the world wouldnt end if multis were invited.

 

FFS - I will type slowly here so you can understand.  THEY ARE ALL SAILING BOATS (well with the exception of the ones that run their engines all the time)

 

>the yacht clubs won't deal with individuals

Say what?  Last time I checked the articles of association for every club I have been a member of - individual members are in fact the rationale for existence.  

 

 

 

Saying that a particular form of sporting equipment cannot enter an event for a different type of sporting equipment is NOT telling anyone to bugger off, it's simply doing exactly what sports organisers always do and have to do.

 

Lots of monos are also prevented from entering the Hobart because the Sydney-Hobart is just like the Bathurst car races, the Tour Down Under on bicycles, the Moto GP and just about every other sporting event in the world; it's restricted to certain types.

 

The Shorthanded Sailing Association won't let me sail fully-crewed and my old cat club bans my monos, just like the windsurfer association bans kitesurfers. Is that discrimination or is it just like the V8s not allowing in F1 cars, the motorcycles not allowing V8s into their events, or cricket requiring everyone to use the same gear?

 

If banning types is so bad then how can you and other multihull sailors and shorthanded sailors ethically remain part of the SHSA and multihull organisations that do just the same thing?



#137 PIL007

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:45 AM

Warning to Chris 249...Please do us all a favour here, or as the band Talking Heads would say....Stop making Sense. .....This is not a reality thread so stop trying to turn it into one.

Now where were we........oh yeah back to our negative reality inversion (Neil from "The Young Ones").



#138 auscat

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 03:07 AM

The Paris-Dakar has cars,trucks and motorbikes all on the same course.Do they compete with each other? No they are in divisions but still all manage to get along.

Do the big motor sailors compete against the old IOR boats? No they have this wonderful thing that divides the fleet into groups of more evenly matched vessels called divisions.Why is it so hard to add an extra division for multis?I suspect the fact that the public only see's the first boat in as the winner and has no comprehension of handicaps and the fact that this would most likely be a multi,if they were included ,doesn't sit well with some people. 



#139 SCANAS

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:53 AM

My 2 cents but you need to be on the same course or start outside the heads to have the credibility. Gonna need at least 10 boats to make it a race. How many cat 1 multis have we got.

#140 Tornado_ALIVE

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:17 AM

and my old cat club bans my monos,?


Sorry Chris, KCC welcomed monos as they did windsurfers. There was an NS14 that raced with us some time ago and regular windsurfing days. Now days they have several Open Bics that the juniors sail.

But I agree with your other statements. And off course the CYC also bans Monos in excess of 100 feet in the S2H.

Would be nice to see Multis included but it make us look pretty childish if we kick and scream because they have not invited us.

#141 fireball

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:06 AM

This is a storm in a tea cup because there are only 2 multihulls that are likely to enter. Given that the ORMA 60 class is defunct and these are old boats finding a second life in Australia and New Zealand they don't seem to justify their own division.

While we're talking about dinosaurs the maxis are also getting a bit long in the tooth. WOXI was launched in 2005. It seems that around 80 foot is a good size for a maxi these days. The 100 footers are too fragile.

#142 ozmultis

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:11 PM

And here I thought we were just all sailors sailing sail boats.  Apparently not.



#143 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:33 PM

.

that was true .... until your agenda popped up 

 

your i'view, driving traffic to your 'sales' website

 

'look at me'

'look at my website'

'look how some manufactured 'mono vs multi' controversy' can increase traffic to my website' 

 

all publicitys good publicity huh 

 

BUY A FUCKING AD



#144 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:45 PM

you sad little man





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Sent Today, 12:39 AM
I don't know who you are, but no doubt I will find out. Look forward to meeting you one day.

#145 Solarbri

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:54 PM

you sad little manozmultis

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Sent Today, 12:39 AMI don't know who you are, but no doubt I will find out. Look forward to meeting you one day.

20,000 plus posts of puke...or is that cum? You fucking dickhead!

#146 DtM

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 09:32 PM

I think you might have the sender of the message the wrong way around.  Just saying.



#147 Chris 249

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:23 PM

And here I thought we were just all sailors sailing sail boats.  Apparently not.

 

Yes, we are all just sailors.

 

But multihull organisations run events just for multis. Windsurfer organisations run events just for windsurfers. Kitesurfers run events just for kitesurfers. Trailable yacht organisations ran events just for TYs. Beach cats run events just for beach cats.

 

So why in hell do you complain when mono clubs run events just for monos?



#148 Chris 249

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:51 PM

The Paris-Dakar has cars,trucks and motorbikes all on the same course.Do they compete with each other? No they are in divisions but still all manage to get along.

Do the big motor sailors compete against the old IOR boats? No they have this wonderful thing that divides the fleet into groups of more evenly matched vessels called divisions.Why is it so hard to add an extra division for multis?I suspect the fact that the public only see's the first boat in as the winner and has no comprehension of handicaps and the fact that this would most likely be a multi,if they were included ,doesn't sit well with some people. 

 

The Dakar is VERY unusual and VERY different in their approach to what multi sailors want.

 

For a start, why follow the Dakar model instead of the much more popular approach followed by Le Mans, F1, V8s, NASCAR, Moto GP, Superbikes, etc - that is, just hold a race for one type and don't bother to let others in. 

 

Secondly, the Dakar organisers seem to ensure that there is NO overall "first entrant in" like there is in the Hobart. It's all about who won their type (bike, truck, car) and not who finished first out of all types. They don't even have an overall finishing order on their website (as far as I can find) and they start cars and trucks well behind the bikes and quads, and often put them on different courses. Furthermore, they seem to restrict performance to ensure that every type is generally similar; the 750 cc bikes have restrictor plates and the monster twin-mid-engine trucks that used to be able to beat everyone have been banned.

 

So if multis want to follow the "Dakar model" they would have to start late so they don't finish ahead; ensure that the first multi home received no more publicity than the first mono home; and be restricted in performance so that they finished around the same time as the first "trucks" (the fixed keelers?). 

 

Do the canters compete with the old IOR boats? In a lot of ways they don't and that is a bad thing which is why so many CYCA members tried to get rid of canting maxis.  The gap between first boat home and "normal" boats is now huge; so huge that many of us think that it's destroyed our interest in the race and therefore we no longer do it. There are no longer the fleets of 35-30 footers of earlier days, and the fleet size is down. Why make the spread in the fleet even bigger just so a few people can use gear that has always been restricted?

 

Of course it wouldn't sit well with lots of people if a multi was first home - that's perfectly reasonable because a mono should win a race created for and by monos. It wouldn't sit well with people if a kite was first home in the Texel catamaran race. It wouldn't sit well with people if a Formula 1 car was first home in the Superbike events. It wouldn't sit well with people if a Le Mans Proto Porsche was first home in the V8s. It wouldn't sit well if a Moth was first home in a windsurfer race, or if someone tried to play checkers in a chess tournament, or "finished first" by playing baseball in a cricket comp. 

 

Why do you expect an event created for a particular type of sporting gear to allow itself to be used to showcase a different type of sporting gear? How many other disciplines do that? 

 

Yes, we know that multis are faster - it's just that most mono sailors don't give a flying fuck because we are interested in performance compared to other monos - just like the way that multi sailors compare their top speeds to other multis and don't give a fuck about the fact that a board reaching down a trench is faster. Mono sailors don't care about multis being faster just like normal bicycle riders don't care about streamlined recumbents being faster, just like competitive swimmers don't care that people with swim fins are faster, just like the fact that longboard surfers don't care that kneeboards do tighter turns.



#149 Keith

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:01 AM

If another, international, sailboat race, simply adds a multihull division, will the world stop turning????? ah no.

 

Imagine if the Americas cup included multihull designs.... oh wait.... they did.

 

If no multis show up to race in their division, so what, maybe the next year they will....

 

Perhaps, some of the awesome European tris might come down and play... ya never know, do ya???

 

Adding a new division, never hurts anyone.... its inclusive... and, most importantly, its all good for the international sport of sailing...



#150 Chris 249

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:03 AM

and my old cat club bans my monos,?


Sorry Chris, KCC welcomed monos as they did windsurfers. There was an NS14 that raced with us some time ago and regular windsurfing days. Now days they have several Open Bics that the juniors sail.

But I agree with your other statements. And off course the CYC also bans Monos in excess of 100 feet in the S2H.

Would be nice to see Multis included but it make us look pretty childish if we kick and scream because they have not invited us.

 

Good point, I shouldn't have referred to KCC but to PCC/PBSC which has refused monos.

 

I thought from the discussions when KCC took over the adjacent SSSC and clubhouse that the KCC constitution said cats only, and that the board races were nominally put under the SSSC banner and seen as a trial to avoid the constitutional issue. 

 

Personally I have no problem with KCC being a cat-only club, just like there are clubs just for skiffs and TYs and keelboats.  

 

Cheers



#151 Chris 249

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:22 AM

If another, international, sailboat race, simply adds a multihull division, will the world stop turning????? ah no.

 

Imagine if the Americas cup included multihull designs.... oh wait.... they did.

 

If no multis show up to race in their division, so what, maybe the next year they will....

 

Perhaps, some of the awesome European tris might come down and play... ya never know, do ya???

 

Adding a new division, never hurts anyone.... its inclusive... and, most importantly, its all good for the international sport of sailing...

 

Keith, with respect most of those are just platitudes.

 

Adding a new division never hurts anyone - are you sure? If so, why aren't you hassling the organisers of the Texel cat race to bring in skiffs and dinghies and kites and windsurfers? Why aren't you telling the organisers of the Wildcat regatta in America to allow in Moths and J/24s?

 

How familiar are you with the CYCA and the Hobart organisation? Where do they find (volunteer) safety organisers with Cat 1 AND multi experience? Where do they put the multis before the start in a way that will give them equal treatment with the monos? How will the start work?

 

There may be answers to these questions but why should the CYCA try to find them? We've tried to get Euro tris down; their sponsors said that the exposure wasn't worth the money. And why would the CYCA want to get tris down? The monos in the race already get good exposure, much more than any multi event here. Why should they take the limelight off boats that do the other CYCA races and support the Australian scene, in order to shine it on Euros? 

 

Where is the evidence that adding new divisions is good for the international sport of sailing?  Why is it better for the typical Australian weekend offshore racer to finish the Hobart on a Sydney 38 or First 40 and find that the line honours winner (a 130' cat, say) has already finished and packed up and gone home?

 

How many Hobarts have you done? How familiar are you with the way that the increasing gap in the fleet, and the increasing size of the boats, has changed the social aspect of the race?  I remember doing my first Hobart and spending part of New Years Eve with Peter Blake on his Volvo/Whitbread boat, which had taken line honours, because the gap between his boat and the typical boat was so much smaller that the whole fleet still hung out together. That has gone to a large extent and would go even further if big multis were allowed in.

 

This whole idea that letting in a wider variety of types of gear is better ignores the facts of human nature; people like to form an association of people with similar tastes and experiences and have events that specialise in particular things. We are all drinkers but we don't walk into our wine clubs and demand that they organise vodka tasting. We may all play games but that doesn't mean that people walk into a chess club's tournament and demand to be able to "win" by playing Starcraft. We have musical groups and venues that specialist in just one particular type of music, artistic groups that specialise in (say) just watercolours, computer clubs that specialise in just one sort of computer, car clubs that just do Fords or sportscars or dune biggies, bicycle groups that just to CX or road or MTB.....

 

You name it, EVERY group for sports or pastimes seems to specialise a lot (or all) of the time, because it's fun to specialise some times. Haven't you ever been to a cat-only event and enjoyed just talking and sailing cats? I know I have. I've also been to windsurfer-only events and enjoyed just talking and sailing boards. I've enjoyed sailing shorthanded-only events (on monos and multis) and enjoyed just dealing with other shorthanders.

 

No one has a problem with cat-only and kite-only and shorthanded-only events. So why can't I go to a mono-only event like the Hobart without being hassled?

 

What clubs or sporting bodies do you belong to, Keith? How many of them try to cover everything in their field in all the events they run? What other activities do you do? 

 

And if people shouldn't be able to run events that restrict boats based on the number of hulls they have, either show us where you have complained about multi-only events or you must admit that you are being hypocritical.



#152 Keith

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 01:25 AM

No problem, I'm just being realistic, in the year 2013.

 

Change is always for the better... and eventually they all do....

 

No, I haven't done a S.H. One day, I would love too.  There's many other international ocean races, I would also love to do.

 

Now, if all the shorter sailboats in your race, are not coming out any more, due to what ever reason, ya know, like the economy, or declining interest in sailing, or getting their asses kicked by longer hi tech boats with wealthier owners, and professional paid crews,

maybe, just maybe, and if we follow your thought process, you could limit the LOA, so that everyone sails the same length boat, you know, just like your F1 comparison, you could all be the same size, all the same,  and just for fun, some can be full keel, some can be canting keel, some can be all wood, some can be ferrocement, some can be carbon, ya know,  So people can still sail the design and build they like... and can afford, and you'll only need one division... awesome!

 

See how much fun that would be for ya???  and hell, I'm sure every sailor would surely be there.. right???

 

Simply put,  adding a multihull division, with-in all the other divisions, will only get more sailors into the mix, and it wont take anything away, from the incredible history of Australia's most awesome international ocean race. 

 

Stop worrying so much, its not good for your health....



#153 Rawhide

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:13 AM

if CYC added multies at this point in time this is how I see it going. There would be two ORMA 60's, plus at best one or two other multi's and maybe none, CYC would then decide it is just not worth the effort to run a separate start line and the other organisational hassles and drop it after two years when SL realises that the novelty has worn off and he isn't getting any media attention any more, other than from multi tragic's who don't use his boat yard anyway and moves onto the next publicity generating scheme. End result no multies in S2H for at least ten years.

 

Lets see whether the Coffs has a sustainable multi fleet before we start over reaching ourselves.



#154 Chris 249

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:53 AM

No problem, I'm just being realistic, in the year 2013.

 

Change is always for the better... and eventually they all do....

 

No, I haven't done a S.H. One day, I would love too.  There's many other international ocean races, I would also love to do.

 

Now, if all the shorter sailboats in your race, are not coming out any more, due to what ever reason, ya know, like the economy, or declining interest in sailing, or getting their asses kicked by longer hi tech boats with wealthier owners, and professional paid crews,

maybe, just maybe, and if we follow your thought process, you could limit the LOA, so that everyone sails the same length boat, you know, just like your F1 comparison, you could all be the same size, all the same,  and just for fun, some can be full keel, some can be canting keel, some can be all wood, some can be ferrocement, some can be carbon, ya know,  So people can still sail the design and build they like... and can afford, and you'll only need one division... awesome!

 

See how much fun that would be for ya???  and hell, I'm sure every sailor would surely be there.. right???

 

Simply put,  adding a multihull division, with-in all the other divisions, will only get more sailors into the mix, and it wont take anything away, from the incredible history of Australia's most awesome international ocean race. 

 

Stop worrying so much, its not good for your health....

 

So change is always for the better; like the changes that saw the biggest cat race down here go from 190 boats to 17. That's better, is it?

 

Change is always for the better even if those changes have seen the Hobart fleet go from a regular 150 boats to 70 or so? That's better, is it?

 

Change is always for the better even when that change is the ORMA 60 class collapsing, is it?

 

Change is for the better when that change is Australia's biggest offshore multihull race losing 50% of its fleet, is it?

 

Change is for the better even when it's seen the multi fleet in the UK's biggest fleet drop to about half, is it?

 

Of course change isn't always for the better. And going on about the year isn't relevant when the fact is that offshore multi racing in general doesn't seem to be growing much, if at all. IMHO a lot of that is down to the fact that a loud minority of multi sailors are stirring shit up by hypocritically demanding that mono sailors do what sailors of other types don't do (namely open up races to other types of boat) instead of actually effectively marketing the type. IMHO some multi sailors are also holding the type back by assuming that it's other peoples' fault or stupidity that multis remain a minority, instead of actually respecting the fact that monos actually suit many people better than multis do.

 

Nowhere did I say that the Hobart should be like F1 or all boats should be of the same LOA. All I said was that sailing reasonably similar craft against each other was often more fun, and that mono sailors should be treated like all other sailors and be allowed to run events just for their own type. 

 

So I ask again - if opening up all races to all types is so good, why don't you demand the same thing from the multihullers, and from the kiters, and windsurfers?

 

If having event just for one type is so bad and no fun, why do multihull sailors do it too?

 

I ask again - what other things do you do for fun, and do they always allow everyone in to every event or do they sometimes have events just for one activity or type of gear?

 

And it's not me that's worrying about entry into the Hobart..... but I DO worry about people who could fuck up an event that used to be very important to me. What is wrong with being concerned about that?

 

PS - yes, the Fastnet has multis. It's also often got very few of them, despite being close to the Euro scene. But the main point - which I gathered when I went to the Bermuda race HQ and interviewed the organisers of the Hobart, Bermuda and Fastnet for an article a few years back - is that in some significant ways the Fastnet is a very different race to the Hobart and therefore multis would have a very different effect on the race.

 

Not understanding and allowing for regional and other differences between races, and just expecting them all to be cookie-cutter clones, doesn't work.



#155 Babel fish

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 03:10 AM

So, Chris 249 makes some sense....I am sure you can all rip into him, which will prove the point. not to say you all do a great job of fighting amongst yourselves which again proves the point........how you expect to get a class up when you act like such rabble is beyond belief.........away you go 



#156 Corley_

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 03:14 AM

I think one of the biggest problems with getting multis to the start line is that most are privately owned by individuals.  If you own a comfy performance cruising catamaran or trimaran do you want to convert it into a race boat with all that entails on a regular basis?  A good step forward for offshore racing multihulls in Australia is if we could form some syndicates and share ownership.  That would see the costs shared among more individuals and the boats being used more often imo.  You cant force that though there has to be the interest to make that happen.



#157 Keith

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:58 AM

Simply put, adding a multihull division, with-in all the other divisions, will only get more sailors into the mix, and it wont take anything away, from the incredible history of Australia's most awesome international ocean race. 

 

Stop worrying so much, its not good for your health....



#158 SCANAS

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 09:02 AM

So is Voda going or not? One boat ain't a race.

#159 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:13 AM

.
correctamundo SCANAS

neither have they entered the Multihull friendly P2Coffs

all marketing spin from this side of the tasman and ozmultis interviews

I heard a rumour that TVS haven't confirmed they're doing the SYDNEY TO HOBART :-)



#160 SCANAS

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:46 AM

Time to put this thread to rest for another year then.

#161 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 03:29 PM

Change is always for the better even if those changes have seen the Hobart fleet go from a regular 150 boats to 70 or so? That's better, is it?

In your opinion why did this happen?  And why would it happen while similar-distance major races like the Fastnet and Middle Sea and Caribbean 600 have grown, or even exploded in size, with record fleets almost every year for the past five.



#162 Chris O

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 03:57 PM

Maybe the races you cite, Clean, are just anomalies and the rest of the world is seeing what the industry as a whole is seeing... that being; the sport, itself, is slowly croaking?



#163 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:52 PM

Change is always for the better even if those changes have seen the Hobart fleet go from a regular 150 boats to 70 or so? That's better, is it?

In your opinion why did this happen?  And why would it happen while similar-distance major races like the Fastnet and Middle Sea and Caribbean 600 have grown, or even exploded in size, with record fleets almost every year for the past five.

 

big mistake Clean, Chris' 'Statistics Fu' is stronger than yours, and his generalisations will beat the ass of the one you just posted anyway, you need to target an easier win

 

This will begin with 'i am your father' then when he's pumping your claims  you over the barrel it will be ' who's your daddy' 



#164 PIL007

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:55 PM

Change is always for the better even if those changes have seen the Hobart fleet go from a regular 150 boats to 70 or so? That's better, is it?

In your opinion why did this happen?  And why would it happen while similar-distance major races like the Fastnet and Middle Sea and Caribbean 600 have grown, or even exploded in size, with record fleets almost every year for the past five.

 

It's obvious what happened........That Fucking previous Australian Labor government led by the lying DUD and then that ginger mole is to blame for everything...........yes everything.

Things will now improve

Sorry Nuddy



#165 oomummado

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 05:45 AM

if CYC added multies at this point in time this is how I see it going. There would be two ORMA 60's, plus at best one or two other multi's and maybe none, CYC would then decide it is just not worth the effort to run a separate start line and the other organisational hassles and drop it after two years when SL realises that the novelty has worn off and he isn't getting any media attention any more, other than from multi tragic's who don't use his boat yard anyway and moves onto the next publicity generating scheme. End result no multies in S2H for at least ten years.

 

Lets see whether the Coffs has a sustainable multi fleet before we start over reaching ourselves.

Exactly. Nice post

 

Here is my 2 cents worth.

 

Firstly - I own a racing trimaran in Australia so lets get that out of the way.

 

Secondly - To ausmulti's your continual whinge about monohull powerboats shows your ignorance and only adds to why multihull sailors have the reputation they have. Have you sailed one of these top end 'powerboats'. I have. I have done 2 Hobarts in one and am doing another this year. 

 

Thirdly - Multihulls in the Hobart race is a dumb idea and anyone who thinks it is a great idea needs to be questioned. (remember I am a racing trimaran owner) If you get a southerly front in Bass Straight (which you normally do) with wind against tide (tide always south bound so wind against tide) it is absolutely no place for a multihull. They are heinous boats in conditions like this and are dangerous. Thats a fact. Multi's should stick to coastal races (Gladstone / Coffs).

 

Fourthly - What multihulls are going to enter a Hobart race. Take out the 2 x ORMA's. I cant think of many that are prepared enough and are good enough to enter and have the ability to withstand a southerly blow. You certainly would not take a Pescott catamaran or similar. So how many realistic and/or half interesting entrants will you get?

 

Fifthly - The CYCA have dealt with safety issues and deaths in this race before. I can see why they would be reluctant to let multihulls in the race. Monohulls are much much safer boats.

 

Sixthly - If you dont like whats going on (and as others have said) go and organise your own event instead of trying to hang off the coat tails of the CYCA run Hobart race and whinging when you dont get multihull entries accepted and whinging about monohulls. What are you school kids.



#166 SCANAS

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 06:53 AM

Change is always for the better even if those changes have seen the Hobart fleet go from a regular 150 boats to 70 or so? That's better, is it?

In your opinion why did this happen?  And why would it happen while similar-distance major races like the Fastnet and Middle Sea and Caribbean 600 have grown, or even exploded in size, with record fleets almost every year for the past five.

 

 

What safety category are the middle sea and carribbean 600 races?



#167 SeaGul

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:53 AM

 

They are heinous boats in conditions like this and are dangerous. Thats a fact. Multi's should stick to coastal races (Gladstone / Coffs).

 

 

Fifthly - The CYCA have dealt with safety issues and deaths in this race before. I can see why they would be reluctant to let multihulls in the race. Monohulls are much much safer boats.

Strange with all these ocean racing records then....   and there are other dangerous races - like the Fastnet - why do those silly jerks allow multis???



#168 Corley_

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:13 AM

The Caribbean 600 is category 3 with Category 2 liferaft requirements.

 

The Middle Sea Race is Category 2

 

The Fastnet Race is Category 2



#169 Babel fish

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 09:56 AM

if CYC added multies at this point in time this is how I see it going. There would be two ORMA 60's, plus at best one or two other multi's and maybe none, CYC would then decide it is just not worth the effort to run a separate start line and the other organisational hassles and drop it after two years when SL realises that the novelty has worn off and he isn't getting any media attention any more, other than from multi tragic's who don't use his boat yard anyway and moves onto the next publicity generating scheme. End result no multies in S2H for at least ten years.
 
Lets see whether the Coffs has a sustainable multi fleet before we start over reaching ourselves.

Exactly. Nice post
 
Here is my 2 cents worth.
 
Firstly - I own a racing trimaran in Australia so lets get that out of the way.
 
Secondly - To ausmulti's your continual whinge about monohull powerboats shows your ignorance and only adds to why multihull sailors have the reputation they have. Have you sailed one of these top end 'powerboats'. I have. I have done 2 Hobarts in one and am doing another this year. 
 
Thirdly - Multihulls in the Hobart race is a dumb idea and anyone who thinks it is a great idea needs to be questioned. (remember I am a racing trimaran owner) If you get a southerly front in Bass Straight (which you normally do) with wind against tide (tide always south bound so wind against tide) it is absolutely no place for a multihull. They are heinous boats in conditions like this and are dangerous. Thats a fact. Multi's should stick to coastal races (Gladstone / Coffs).
 
Fourthly - What multihulls are going to enter a Hobart race. Take out the 2 x ORMA's. I cant think of many that are prepared enough and are good enough to enter and have the ability to withstand a southerly blow. You certainly would not take a Pescott catamaran or similar. So how many realistic and/or half interesting entrants will you get?
 
Fifthly - The CYCA have dealt with safety issues and deaths in this race before. I can see why they would be reluctant to let multihulls in the race. Monohulls are much much safer boats.
 
Sixthly - If you dont like whats going on (and as others have said) go and organise your own event instead of trying to hang off the coat tails of the CYCA run Hobart race and whinging when you dont get multihull entries accepted and whinging about monohulls. What are you school kids.


So, there you go a clear and concise reply from some one that knows...I agree based on my own experience. ....and the answer is get your shit together, create your own race, be respectful of other sailors and the craft they sail in.......I am sure you will be able to mis read all of this and continue the gripping ..

#170 harryproa

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 11:33 AM

oomummado,

Your 2 cents worth is way overvalued.  

 

I have raced Sydney Hobart in 6 monos from 36' to 80' and a 40' trimaran (Bullfrog/Verbatim).  The most comfortable, safest, fastest and most pleasant, by far was the trimaran, even after the southerly hit.  I have also done a few windy/rough offshore races in XL2 and would have no hesitation racing it (or Free Spirit or Deguello) to Hobart.    I have not raced on the catamarans Peccadillo (winner of the very windy and rough Three Peaks Tasmania race), Big Wave Rider (fastest single handed round Australia, winner of the solo trans Tasman), Excess (sailed to Antartica and back) or Mojo (winner Bris Gladstone) but all of them and a number of others here and in NZ would be far safer (and faster and more pleasant to be on) than most of the monos that race south each year.   

 

Many people race to Hobart for the beginning (the start) and the end (the party).  The bit in the middle is mostly cold and wet with a few hours of excitement (many more on the tri than any of the monos, apart from one of the the 80'ters which had old WRTWR gear which was past it's use by date.  Gave me a whole new meaning to "unsafe").  A race strictly for multis would have neither the start or the party, but would still be cold and wet, which is why it is unlikely to happen without a multi division from CYC.  

 

I may be wrong as I don't know either you or your boat, but I would suggest that owning a racing trimaran is not the same as knowing how to race it offshore. 

 

People whinging about people whinging on discussion forums makes me smile.    As do the multi guys trying to muscle their way into events where they are clearly not welcome.  

 

rob

Exactly. Nice post

 

Here is my 2 cents worth.

 

Firstly - I own a racing trimaran in Australia so lets get that out of the way.

 

Secondly - To ausmulti's your continual whinge about monohull powerboats shows your ignorance and only adds to why multihull sailors have the reputation they have. Have you sailed one of these top end 'powerboats'. I have. I have done 2 Hobarts in one and am doing another this year. 

 

Thirdly - Multihulls in the Hobart race is a dumb idea and anyone who thinks it is a great idea needs to be questioned. (remember I am a racing trimaran owner) If you get a southerly front in Bass Straight (which you normally do) with wind against tide (tide always south bound so wind against tide) it is absolutely no place for a multihull. They are heinous boats in conditions like this and are dangerous. Thats a fact. Multi's should stick to coastal races (Gladstone / Coffs).

 

Fourthly - What multihulls are going to enter a Hobart race. Take out the 2 x ORMA's. I cant think of many that are prepared enough and are good enough to enter and have the ability to withstand a southerly blow. You certainly would not take a Pescott catamaran or similar. So how many realistic and/or half interesting entrants will you get?

 

Fifthly - The CYCA have dealt with safety issues and deaths in this race before. I can see why they would be reluctant to let multihulls in the race. Monohulls are much much safer boats.

 

Sixthly - If you dont like whats going on (and as others have said) go and organise your own event instead of trying to hang off the coat tails of the CYCA run Hobart race and whinging when you dont get multihull entries accepted and whinging about monohulls. What are you school kids.



#171 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:16 PM

.
most or all the races you have mentioned have frequent MH incidents
 
even the 'safety evolution' of the ORMA, that is the MOD 70 with EXPERT design input, has had an incident in conditions far less life threatening than a bad Hobart
 
next youll be saying that a proa should go !!

 

link mod 70 



#172 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:52 PM

.

aussies go to ABC1 now

 

doco on voyage from UK to So Pacific by a couple with two toddler aged kids

 

46' Bridge deck Cat



#173 NUDDY

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:56 PM

oomummado,
Your 2 cents worth is way overvalued.  
 
I have raced Sydney Hobart in 6 monos from 36' to 80' and a 40' trimaran (Bullfrog/Verbatim).  The most comfortable, safest, fastest and most pleasant, by far was the trimaran, even after the southerly hit.  I have also done a few windy/rough offshore races in XL2 and would have no hesitation racing it (or Free Spirit or Deguello) to Hobart.    I have not raced on the catamarans Peccadillo (winner of the very windy and rough Three Peaks Tasmania race), Big Wave Rider (fastest single handed round Australia, winner of the solo trans Tasman), Excess (sailed to Antartica and back) or Mojo (winner Bris Gladstone) but all of them and a number of others here and in NZ would be far safer (and faster and more pleasant to be on) than most of the monos that race south each year.   
 
Many people race to Hobart for the beginning (the start) and the end (the party).  The bit in the middle is mostly cold and wet with a few hours of excitement (many more on the tri than any of the monos, apart from one of the the 80'ters which had old WRTWR gear which was past it's use by date.  Gave me a whole new meaning to "unsafe").  A race strictly for multis would have neither the start or the party, but would still be cold and wet, which is why it is unlikely to happen without a multi division from CYC.  
 
I may be wrong as I don't know either you or your boat, but I would suggest that owning a racing trimaran is not the same as knowing how to race it offshore. 
 
People whinging about people whinging on discussion forums makes me smile.    As do the multi guys trying to muscle their way into events where they are clearly not welcome.  
 
rob

Thanks Rob
Very well put. I often think of Lindsay in Bagatelle doing the westcoaster, an event with a much better/worse? reputation than S2H for rough conditions or Deguello sailing through a cyclone, or Verbatim in the round Aust.
It is easy to make all sorts of claims when hiding behind a display name without the courage to admit who you are. I do wonder why anonymous oomummado owns such a dangerous boat instead of a much much safer monohull, and what he/she is doing trolling on multihull anarchy.
Thanks for putting him/her in his/her place and I suggest we all ignore oomummado until he/she puts a name to his/her opinion.

#174 NUDDY

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 01:20 PM

I started this thread, simply by posting Sean's press release. Look where it has lead! Blaming the decline of S2H on the Labor Gov't.
I think it was in decline well before 2007, under Johny Howard, the PM with blatant disregard for the law of the sea.
However I say good luck to Sean, and Simon (I know he wants to do it, he even asked me, through an intermediary, to arrange it a few years back before Sean got BP). I hope they get it up.
But I certainly don't want to do S2H, not on a multi and certainly not on a mono. I sail for fun and it sure don't sound like fun.
I said so back in the 90's when multis were welcomed into the MHYC Sydney to Mooloolaba and several times in the RSYS Sydney to Southport.

#175 Chris 249

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:51 AM

Change is always for the better even if those changes have seen the Hobart fleet go from a regular 150 boats to 70 or so? That's better, is it?

In your opinion why did this happen?  And why would it happen while similar-distance major races like the Fastnet and Middle Sea and Caribbean 600 have grown, or even exploded in size, with record fleets almost every year for the past five.

 

I haven't done a Hobart for 12 years now, but (IMHO FWIW etc) the reasons that I gave up could be related to the reasons the fleet has dropped.

 

The Hobart is very much a big-boat fest these days, whereas when it was more popular the fleet was mainly composed of much smaller boats. That means that very few people can now afford to run a "competitive" boat, as in one that will finish close enough to the bulk of the fleet and among a group of similar boats.

 

The change can be seen by looking at the Hobart itself over time, and in comparison with the Fastnet both now and then. The fleets used to look quite similar in terms of the proportion of big boats to small boats; now the Fastnet has a vastly stronger small-boat and medium-size boat fleet. 

 

Looking at the last races (and throwing Hobart PHS boats and Fastnet 2H IRC boats in their respective divisions) we see that there is a striking similarity in the number of boats of TP52 size and speed and more in each race. The Fastnet had 24 starters in the Canting and Zero classes (One 100' supermaxi, TP52s, fixed keel mini maxis, Volvo 60, Swan 60, Farr 52 OD etc) whereas the corresponding classes in the Hobart attracted 23 boats, including three 100' canters and a 100' fixed keeler. 

 

But in the next size down (39-46' IRC racers like Rogers and Kers and big cruisers) the Fastnet had 52 boats, the Hobart just 17. The class after that (Beneteau 45s and 40s, etc) had 89 boats in the Fastnet and 19 in the Hobart.

 

In the smallest boats the disparity is even more marked; once you get under IRC 1.05-ish, (10m IRC racers, J/109s, Beneteau 36.7, Sydney 36, J/35, old IOR boats of 47' or less) there's a staggering 184 boats in the Fastnet compared to 17 in the Hobart!

 

If you add in the Class 40s and Figaro IIs (one designs I left out of the above calcs as there is no comparable scene in Oz) the proportion of 'small' boats in the Fastnet increases even more. 

 

It's also interesting to look at long-term trends. I found the '79 Fastnet and '77 Hobart fleets to compare their composition with the current fleets. At the time, the Hobart fleet (132 boats) was much healthier (compared to today and to populations) compared to the record Fastnet fleet (303 boats).

 

The Hobart fleet's composition was also strikingly similar to that of the Fastnet, in terms of boat size and design apart from the fact that Class I (50 to 43 foot racing boats and big old cruisers) was miles bigger in the Fastnet, partly because of the 50-ish boats that did it because of the Admiral's Cup*. For example if we look at (roughly) IOR 34-30 footers we see 116 boats in the Fastnet and 53 in the Hobart; pretty close to the ratio between overall fleet sizes.

 

Over time, though, the races have diverged to the Hobart's cost. In the Fastnet it looks as if the number of "raceboats" over 38' has actually declined as the fleet has grown and people move to cruiser/racers. The number of boats of 36'-ish and less has stayed static. The growth has been in the 40 foot cruiser/racers like Benny 40s....the sort of boat so many slag off but which keep so much of the sport going.

 

In contrast the Hobart has a larger number of big race machines, but a vastly smaller number of small boats and a much smaller overall fleet. If the Hobart had maintained the same sort of fleet composition as it used to have, and the same sort of composition the Fastnet still has, we'd see dozens of boats like J/109s, Archie A 31s etc bouncing down to Hobart.

 

And why have the small boats stopped? Not sure. The Cat 1+ safety requirements have hurt. The accent is also all about the big boats, and there's no real stepping stone from small boats and small races like there used to be. I think in the last days of the "small boats to Hobart" scene there was a strong (and often expressed) feeling that anything under 36 feet just was not welcome. As another example the CYCA, which used to have a JOG division (= MORC, for boats under 31') AND a separate half ton class, now bans any boat under 30' from even doing day races offshore. We have nothing like the Euro/UK quarter ton and half ton scenes or UK JOG, or the smallish OODs of the USA; there's no replacement for the JOG and half/quarter scenes of yore. No owner-measured IRC certs are allowed so almost no small boat owners spend the extra bucks for full measurement and there's no PHRF, so for the small-boat owner there's only golf handicap and therefore no reason to try hard or sail well.

 

I sold an investment property a few months back and thought of chucking the cash into a boat for the Hobart etc, but decided there was no point when the small-boat numbers have dwindled so much that there's no one to play with. It's a vicious circle, especially when no one seems to give a fuck about stopping the spiral. So I race dinghies and boards and will do some local racing; ironically now I've moved away from Sydney's big boat oriented scene I can race my 4kt "SB" again. CBF crewing on big boats as I don't want to specialise in doing just one thing.

 

What the Hobart and Fastnet analysis does show, IMHO, is that increasing the proportion of big fast boats, and the emphasis on them, really does nothing to increase the race's status, viability, fleet size or competitiveness. The idea that putting in big multis will increase interest and therefore numbers falls down, IMHO, when we see that putting in big canters has done nothing to increase fleet sizes and may have reduced them. People are not getting into the race because the fast boats are getting faster..... in fact they are no longer turning up like they used to. It's no fun getting to Hobart to find that the party is over.

 

As is so often the case, it's the much-abused practical boats like Beneteaus that are keeping the sport strong and healthy, and the scene that concentrates on spectacular boats is the one that is sick.

 

And the Fastnet shows that people WILL still sail offshore in fairly small and cheap boats if they are encouraged, rather than bagged out for sailing 5 knot shitboxes. But there seems to be a big cultural difference between the RORC and CYCA these days.

 

All just my 2c worth, it'd be interesting to hear from Fastnet and Bermuda racers and guys who still do the Hobart.

 

 

* 57 boats did the AC but at least 9 or 10 of them were chartered UK boats or boats from France, Holland, Ireland etc which would have done the Fastnet even if there had been no AC.



#176 trispirit

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 06:13 AM

 

Change is always for the better even if those changes have seen the Hobart fleet go from a regular 150 boats to 70 or so? That's better, is it?

In your opinion why did this happen?  And why would it happen while similar-distance major races like the Fastnet and Middle Sea and Caribbean 600 have grown, or even exploded in size, with record fleets almost every year for the past five.

 

I haven't done a Hobart for 12 years now, but (IMHO FWIW etc) the reasons that I gave up could be related to the reasons the fleet has dropped.

 

The Hobart is very much a big-boat fest these days, whereas when it was more popular the fleet was mainly composed of much smaller boats. That means that very few people can now afford to run a "competitive" boat, as in one that will finish close enough to the bulk of the fleet and among a group of similar boats.

 

The change can be seen by looking at the Hobart itself over time, and in comparison with the Fastnet both now and then. The fleets used to look quite similar in terms of the proportion of big boats to small boats; now the Fastnet has a vastly stronger small-boat and medium-size boat fleet. 

 

Looking at the last races (and throwing Hobart PHS boats and Fastnet 2H IRC boats in their respective divisions) we see that there is a striking similarity in the number of boats of TP52 size and speed and more in each race. The Fastnet had 24 starters in the Canting and Zero classes (One 100' supermaxi, TP52s, fixed keel mini maxis, Volvo 60, Swan 60, Farr 52 OD etc) whereas the corresponding classes in the Hobart attracted 23 boats, including three 100' canters and a 100' fixed keeler. 

 

But in the next size down (39-46' IRC racers like Rogers and Kers and big cruisers) the Fastnet had 52 boats, the Hobart just 17. The class after that (Beneteau 45s and 40s, etc) had 89 boats in the Fastnet and 19 in the Hobart.

 

In the smallest boats the disparity is even more marked; once you get under IRC 1.05-ish, (10m IRC racers, J/109s, Beneteau 36.7, Sydney 36, J/35, old IOR boats of 47' or less) there's a staggering 184 boats in the Fastnet compared to 17 in the Hobart!

 

If you add in the Class 40s and Figaro IIs (one designs I left out of the above calcs as there is no comparable scene in Oz) the proportion of 'small' boats in the Fastnet increases even more. 

 

It's also interesting to look at long-term trends. I found the '79 Fastnet and '77 Hobart fleets to compare their composition with the current fleets. At the time, the Hobart fleet (132 boats) was much healthier (compared to today and to populations) compared to the record Fastnet fleet (303 boats).

 

The Hobart fleet's composition was also strikingly similar to that of the Fastnet, in terms of boat size and design apart from the fact that Class I (50 to 43 foot racing boats and big old cruisers) was miles bigger in the Fastnet, partly because of the 50-ish boats that did it because of the Admiral's Cup*. For example if we look at (roughly) IOR 34-30 footers we see 116 boats in the Fastnet and 53 in the Hobart; pretty close to the ratio between overall fleet sizes.

 

Over time, though, the races have diverged to the Hobart's cost. In the Fastnet it looks as if the number of "raceboats" over 38' has actually declined as the fleet has grown and people move to cruiser/racers. The number of boats of 36'-ish and less has stayed static. The growth has been in the 40 foot cruiser/racers like Benny 40s....the sort of boat so many slag off but which keep so much of the sport going.

 

In contrast the Hobart has a larger number of big race machines, but a vastly smaller number of small boats and a much smaller overall fleet. If the Hobart had maintained the same sort of fleet composition as it used to have, and the same sort of composition the Fastnet still has, we'd see dozens of boats like J/109s, Archie A 31s etc bouncing down to Hobart.

 

And why have the small boats stopped? Not sure. The Cat 1+ safety requirements have hurt. The accent is also all about the big boats, and there's no real stepping stone from small boats and small races like there used to be. I think in the last days of the "small boats to Hobart" scene there was a strong (and often expressed) feeling that anything under 36 feet just was not welcome. As another example the CYCA, which used to have a JOG division (= MORC, for boats under 31') AND a separate half ton class, now bans any boat under 30' from even doing day races offshore. We have nothing like the Euro/UK quarter ton and half ton scenes or UK JOG, or the smallish OODs of the USA; there's no replacement for the JOG and half/quarter scenes of yore. No owner-measured IRC certs are allowed so almost no small boat owners spend the extra bucks for full measurement and there's no PHRF, so for the small-boat owner there's only golf handicap and therefore no reason to try hard or sail well.

 

I sold an investment property a few months back and thought of chucking the cash into a boat for the Hobart etc, but decided there was no point when the small-boat numbers have dwindled so much that there's no one to play with. It's a vicious circle, especially when no one seems to give a fuck about stopping the spiral. So I race dinghies and boards and will do some local racing; ironically now I've moved away from Sydney's big boat oriented scene I can race my 4kt "SB" again. CBF crewing on big boats as I don't want to specialise in doing just one thing.

 

What the Hobart and Fastnet analysis does show, IMHO, is that increasing the proportion of big fast boats, and the emphasis on them, really does nothing to increase the race's status, viability, fleet size or competitiveness. The idea that putting in big multis will increase interest and therefore numbers falls down, IMHO, when we see that putting in big canters has done nothing to increase fleet sizes and may have reduced them. People are not getting into the race because the fast boats are getting faster..... in fact they are no longer turning up like they used to. It's no fun getting to Hobart to find that the party is over.

 

As is so often the case, it's the much-abused practical boats like Beneteaus that are keeping the sport strong and healthy, and the scene that concentrates on spectacular boats is the one that is sick.

 

And the Fastnet shows that people WILL still sail offshore in fairly small and cheap boats if they are encouraged, rather than bagged out for sailing 5 knot shitboxes. But there seems to be a big cultural difference between the RORC and CYCA these days.

 

All just my 2c worth, it'd be interesting to hear from Fastnet and Bermuda racers and guys who still do the Hobart.

 

 

* 57 boats did the AC but at least 9 or 10 of them were chartered UK boats or boats from France, Holland, Ireland etc which would have done the Fastnet even if there had been no AC.

 

Really well put together and some great comparisons there of both the Fastnet and Hobart.  Personally I think the costs and time of setting up a race boat and the amount of bureaucratic BS stops a lot of people from racing these days.   It puts me off entering more races as it does take a large amount of time and money to move the boat around to organise experienced crew, pay for all the entry fees and safety equipment required, long gone are the days or being responsible for oneself.  

 

I come from a viewer perspective though and I would love to see more boats in the SYD-HBT multihulls included it's a great race can be super tough and testing and to see a couple of old ORMA's or whatever smoking down the coast would be cool.  The Coastal Classic last weekend in NZ was awesome the boats are spectacular and to see them head to head on the water was awesome.  

 

Anyway whatever I'd just like to see some cool multi's doing the Hobart..... :-)



#177 Corley_

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 08:00 AM

I like the suggestion of the Pittwater to Hobart race I've thought along similar lines in the past.  Set the safety category to Cat 2 Invite the multihulls 40' plus perhaps? and smaller monohulls like CT249's who are feeling disenchanted by the current Sydney to Hobart race put a cap on the length of boats that compete 50' perhaps and no canters? It might promote some activity in that small boat arena (it's weird to consider a 50' boat small but there you go).



#178 Babel fish

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 08:37 AM

Great Corley......get the NOR out, maybe give out some more detail so all the boat owners know which club will help you run the race...really pleased to see you like the idea and you have decided on the Cat 2 as a rating.....well done

#179 fireball

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 09:21 AM

I like the suggestion of the Pittwater to Hobart race I've thought along similar lines in the past.  Set the safety category to Cat 2 Invite the multihulls 40' plus perhaps? and smaller monohulls like CT249's who are feeling disenchanted by the current Sydney to Hobart race put a cap on the length of boats that compete 50' perhaps and no canters? It might promote some activity in that small boat arena (it's weird to consider a 50' boat small but there you go).


Do you know what Cat 2 means? Cat 2 only gets you from Pittwater to Gabo Island.

#180 Corley_

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 10:09 AM

I like the suggestion of the Pittwater to Hobart race I've thought along similar lines in the past.  Set the safety category to Cat 2 Invite the multihulls 40' plus perhaps? and smaller monohulls like CT249's who are feeling disenchanted by the current Sydney to Hobart race put a cap on the length of boats that compete 50' perhaps and no canters? It might promote some activity in that small boat arena (it's weird to consider a 50' boat small but there you go).


Do you know what Cat 2 means? Cat 2 only gets you from Pittwater to Gabo Island.

You are right I'd not read the description on the regs in detail Cat 1 would be required.



#181 SCANAS

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 11:21 AM

Hobart is, and will forever be, CAT1. It deserves to be. All the multi guys saying the race needs to change are lost. It has plenty of racing and its the most prestigious ocean race in Australia. Multi owners need to step up or shut up. I love multis but you are delusional if you think the race needs help or will bend for you.

#182 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:39 PM

Are the Route Du Rhum and TJV safety regs less or more stringent than the Hobart's?



#183 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:45 PM

.

what a dumb question 

 

http://bit.ly/Hyunbf



#184 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:46 PM

 

Change is always for the better even if those changes have seen the Hobart fleet go from a regular 150 boats to 70 or so? That's better, is it?

In your opinion why did this happen?  And why would it happen while similar-distance major races like the Fastnet and Middle Sea and Caribbean 600 have grown, or even exploded in size, with record fleets almost every year for the past five.

 

 

What the Hobart and Fastnet analysis does show, IMHO, is that increasing the proportion of big fast boats, and the emphasis on them, really does nothing to increase the race's status, viability, fleet size or competitiveness. The idea that putting in big multis will increase interest and therefore numbers falls down, IMHO, when we see that putting in big canters has done nothing to increase fleet sizes and may have reduced them. People are not getting into the race because the fast boats are getting faster..... in fact they are no longer turning up like they used to. It's no fun getting to Hobart to find that the party is over.

That's great info Chris and I thank you for it.  One thing to consider:  Increasing the proportion of big fast boats may do nothing to increase a race's status or viability or competitiveness, but it's hard to know that because there is an exceptionally large piece of chaff in the data, which is how the race treats those big boats, and more importantly, the little ones.  I'd submit that an event is pretty much doomed the moment it begins to be seduced by money and size.  Rolex is complicit (and the worst offender IMO) the magazine owners are complicit, we are complicit...the Fastnet escapes by having a great team of media/journalists/PR people who ensure that the stories about the little boats, the human interest, and the big competitive sections get maximum coverage, and that allows them to fulfill the public's interest for 'big boat porn' as well.

 

Events that market to the middle will generally grow.  Events that market to the top 5% will eventually fail. When we get sucked into perpetuating the public's perception that yachting is for the ultra-rich, we help it to die.

 

If there's one trend I see over and over again in this sport, that's the one.



#185 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:47 PM

if you don't know, you can fuck off rather than poking me with a stick.

 

.

what a dumb question 

 

http://bit.ly/Hyunbf



#186 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:53 PM

.

like I said it's a dumbass question

 

the answer is Less

 

let me know when you've done a Hobart



#187 Babel fish

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:54 PM

Are the Route Du Rhum and TJV safety regs less or more stringent than the Hobart's?


After the 98 race....I don,t think they could load the race any more than they have and will continue to as the fun nazi,s come up with new must have on the boat.....I think that might be the answer, don,t know what the others want on top of the normal Cat one

#188 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 01:27 PM

I'm not about to read the entire Cat 1 regs this minute, but I assumed that a transoceanic singlehanded race for race boats to well over 100 feet would have more strict rules than a Hobart.  Gybeset says no.



#189 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 01:47 PM

assumed? lol, when we go to Hobart assuming will kiil you

 

.

Gybeset says

 

S2H yachts are self-righting to the highest stringent standards, GS has been in the Bass Strait and can attest to that

 

Clean says this is not as stringent as boats with hatches placed underneath the boat, an obvious contingency 

Clean says some races he hasn't done have this and that, but there is no stringent self-righting eligibilty

 

Clean if you really did your time racing you would see that 'elephant in the room'

 

rather than be the king of the castle of keyboard seafarers,  I implore you to enter a Hobart, then comment



#190 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 01:58 PM

you love to think it is just like Cape Horn dontcha.



#191 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:00 PM

Clean says this is not as stringent as boats with hatches placed underneath the boat, an obvious contingency 

Multihulls aren't the only boats with escape hatches.  In fact I think I see a few competing in the Hobart this year.  The more you know...



#192 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:05 PM

no

 

somewhat like Austria, there are no kangaroos @ Cape Horn

 

why can't you stay on topic rather than attempting to prescribe your 'out of context' comments to me?    



#193 Keith

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:38 PM

Well done Bruce.    ;)
 
 
Fastest Circumnavigation of Australia by Catamaran
 
Bruce Arms (New Zealand) sailed his 14-m (45-ft 11-in) catamaran around Australia in 38 days 21 hours 40 minutes 42 seconds, setting the record for the swiftest circumnavigation of Australia. He completed his round trip at Mooloolaba, Queensland, on 18 August 2011 at 9:41:06 a.m. AEST.


#194 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:51 PM

no

 

somewhat like Austria, there are no kangaroos @ Cape Horn

 

why can't you stay on topic rather than attempting to prescribe your 'out of context' comments to me?    

the day you stop playing the man instead of the ball, your attempts at thread policing will become something other than ironic and laughable 



#195 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:51 PM

LOLZ "setting the record for the swiftest circumnavigation of Australia."
 
podium is  
 
fastest - Trimaran 17d
next - Mono 37d
3rd - Cat - 38d ( Bruce)
 
Bruces is more auspicious however being the singlehanded record

--------------------------------------------

outright  
Round Australia 6500 miles July 2005 Geronimo T 90 27 Olivier de Kersauson FRA 17d 12h 57m 5s 15.44

maybe the ORMAS could have a crack at that, its seems a low bar @ 15.44 knots

#196 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:53 PM

Clean says this is not as stringent as boats with hatches placed underneath the boat, an obvious contingency 

Still waiting for you to explain how boats with 'hatches' are less safe.  And how Loyal/Speedboat/Rambler is more safe.



#197 Keith

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 03:01 PM

nd Australia 6500 July 2005 Geronimo T 90 27 Olivier de Kersauson FRA 17d 12h 57m 5s 15.44

 

"setting the record for the swiftest circumnavigation of Australia." BOLLOX 

 

17 days vs 38 

Yeah,  I guess Bruce forgot to put "solo" on his web site... must be a typo.

 

But, thanks for pointing another awesome ocean going multihull. Fully capable of sailing around Australia or the world.



#198 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 03:23 PM

Clean says this is not as stringent as boats with hatches placed underneath the boat, an obvious contingency

Still waiting for you to explain how boats with 'hatches' are less safe.  And how Loyal/Speedboat/Rambler is more safe.

.

you can wait all you like

 

pathetic attempt at moving the goalposts and cherrypicking, ie quoting only a part of my post

your ACTUAL Question was answered, that being "Are the Route Du Rhum and TJV safety regs less or more stringent than the Hobart's?"

 

happy spectating, watch and wonder at the racing @ 40^ South



#199 Speng

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 04:39 PM

I haven't done a Hobart for 12 years now, but (IMHO FWIW etc) the reasons that I gave up could be related to the reasons the fleet has dropped.

 

The Hobart is very much a big-boat fest these days, whereas when it was more popular the fleet was mainly composed of much smaller boats. That means that very few people can now afford to run a "competitive" boat, as in one that will finish close enough to the bulk of the fleet and among a group of similar boats.

... SNIP...

What the Hobart and Fastnet analysis does show, IMHO, is that increasing the proportion of big fast boats, and the emphasis on them, really does nothing to increase the race's status, viability, fleet size or competitiveness. The idea that putting in big multis will increase interest and therefore numbers falls down, IMHO, when we see that putting in big canters has done nothing to increase fleet sizes and may have reduced them. People are not getting into the race because the fast boats are getting faster..... in fact they are no longer turning up like they used to. It's no fun getting to Hobart to find that the party is over.

 

As is so often the case, it's the much-abused practical boats like Beneteaus that are keeping the sport strong and healthy, and the scene that concentrates on spectacular boats is the one that is sick.

 

And the Fastnet shows that people WILL still sail offshore in fairly small and cheap boats if they are encouraged, rather than bagged out for sailing 5 knot shitboxes. But there seems to be a big cultural difference between the RORC and CYCA these days.

Great analysis but perhaps your views on multis are a bit shortsighted as it's not just the Team Australias/Vodaphones of the world that would enter but also the punters on their 40ft cruising cats. It's true that multis don't compose much of today's Fastnet fleets (to continue your comparison) but multi racing is proportionately far stronger in Aus than it is in the UK. So even if only 11 multis showed up for a hypothetical S-H as did for the last Fastnet (6 of those were big race boats) that would be a decent addition to the race numbers.

 

Relative to the safety sparring match the Fastnet is a Cat 2 race while the Syd-Hob is Cat 1. For multis there's no real difference between Cat 1 and Cat 2.



#200 SCANAS

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 10:04 PM

LOLZ "setting the record for the swiftest circumnavigation of Australia."
 
podium is  
 
fastest - Trimaran 17d
next - Mono 37d
3rd - Cat - 38d ( Bruce)
 
Bruces is more auspicious however being the singlehanded record

--------------------------------------------

outright  
Round Australia 6500 miles July 2005 Geronimo T 90 27 Olivier de Kersauson FRA 17d 12h 57m 5s 15.44

maybe the ORMAS could have a crack at that, its seems a low bar @ 15.44 knots


Nah Germimo would kill an ORMA.




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