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Any advice for liveaboard off-grid during the winter?

liveaboard off-grid winter east coast

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#1 psychosailing

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:31 AM

Hi all,

After a summer refit I am about to start my liveaboard experience on my Columbia 29. I am in the NE US, and Winter is approaching. I won't be able to leave for warmer weather before mid November and the trip south won't be very quick either. So that means I won't be any souther than Georgia by December.

Anyone with experience of liveaboard off-grid during the winter?



#2 4knotSB

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:04 AM

This is the new America, you are never off grid.



#3 bpw

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:57 AM

Get a good heater, diesel or wood fired.  Its not so much the cold as the condensation that makes life unpleasant, you need a strong (vented) heater to drive the moisture out or after a few days everything is perma-damp.

 

Keep a squirt bottle of bleach water on hand to fight mold.

 

Lift up your mattress and setee cushions every couple days to air out the undersides.

 

Course, I am not sure Georgia really counts as winter, you may be fine with a warm blanket and nice fuzzy sweater.



#4 NoStrings

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:10 AM

Get a good heater, diesel or wood fired.  Its not so much the cold as the condensation that makes life unpleasant, you need a strong (vented) heater to drive the moisture out or after a few days everything is perma-damp.
 
Keep a squirt bottle of bleach water on hand to fight mold.
 
Lift up your mattress and setee cushions every couple days to air out the undersides.
 
Course, I am not sure Georgia really counts as winter, you may be fine with a warm blanket and nice fuzzy sweater.


Get some of that heater filter stuff to put under your bunk to keep the air circulating under your mattress. Otherwise it'll soak from condensation in a few days and you'll freeze to death. Get a good comforter, synthetics aren't as comfortable as down, but it's a boat. Diesel heater. A nice pair of insulated slippers. Even here in Calif., the water temps get down to 48f. That'll be close to your cabin sole temp. Leave your lockers open unless you like moldy clothes. Keep the air circulating. I hang a golf umbrella over my companionway to let the cabin breathe while keeping the rain out. A dodger would be nicer, but I keep spending my dodger budget on sails. Did I mention a diesel heater?

#5 psychosailing

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:14 AM

Thank you.

 

Georgia is the destination and the end of the "winter problem" for us. We re gonna start cruising from Massachussets, and we will be cruising for some weeks before leaing the very cold.

 

Would a spray bottle with vinegar and water replace the use of bleach?



#6 NoStrings

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:42 AM

Nothing kills mold quicker than a dilute solution of bleach.

#7 psychosailing

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:55 AM

I would love a dodger too, but the budget is very little... but I do have a huge humbrella :) The only portable fuel I have onboard is propane, my engine is electric so no diesel... but I have a huge force 10 stove (compared to the boat). Is there any good propane (vented) heater out there?

 

Good idea the heather filter stuff under the mattresses!



#8 TQA

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:43 PM

The Wave range of catalytic heaters are not vented but one with a good CO alarm would be my choice.

 

I have not used one on a boat but in an RV. It did the business!

 

Wave 3 $218 from PPL

 

The way to go for a proper job is the EBERSPACHER - 12v D2 AIRTRONIC - FULL DIESEL HEATER KIT about $700 plus installation.



#9 Veeger

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:20 PM

So. No dodger. Propane only. Electric main engine. Sure. You can do it. But you'll never try a second season that way! Btw, it can get pretty cool ish in Georgia when a cold front comes through.....

#10 Steam Flyer

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:28 PM

The Wave range of catalytic heaters are not vented but one with a good CO alarm would be my choice.

 

I have not used one on a boat but in an RV. It did the business!

 

Wave 3 $218 from PPL

 

The way to go for a proper job is the EBERSPACHER - 12v D2 AIRTRONIC - FULL DIESEL HEATER KIT about $700 plus installation.

 

 

Any combustion heater that is not vented to the outside, with a proper flue, will increase the humidity inside the boat and result in everything being wetter & colder. Installing a flue is a royal PITA but it's the only way to heat the cabin. The Airtronic is a fine unit

 

And it gets plenty cold in coastal Georgia, average temps may be in the 40s but there will very often be frost and more than a few hard freezes, and snow a couple of times (on average, there won't be any during a mild winter).

 

FB- Doug



#11 Salazar

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:27 PM

I would love a dodger too, but the budget is very little... but I do have a huge humbrella :) The only portable fuel I have onboard is propane, my engine is electric so no diesel... but I have a huge force 10 stove (compared to the boat). Is there any good propane (vented) heater out there?

 

Good idea the heather filter stuff under the mattresses!

 

We have a diesel Espar (Eberspacher) Airtronic and we are happy with it.

 

However I have seen Dickinson's Newport P9000 propane heater and fireplace on other boats and they seemed pleased with them.  It needs to be mounted fairly low, near the cabin sole to have enough chimney length for proper draft and to effectively heat the cold air near the floor.

 

Info here: http://us.binnacle.c...oduct_info.html

 

153_NewportHeaterInstalled.jpg



#12 dylan winter

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:38 PM

don't forget the old candles and flower pot idea

 

it works really well on my 23 footer

 



#13 Steam Flyer

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 04:58 PM

don't forget the old candles and flower pot idea

 

it works really well on my 23 footer

 

 

Dylan, PLEASE don't do this and don't promote the idea. It has killed people.

 

When you put a flower pot over a flame, you create perfect conditions for generating CO.

Unlike a lot of other things that are bad for you to breathe, CO binds to red blood cells same as O2 and tends to not let go. It is possible to suffocate from CO exposure at quite low levels, while there is still plenty of O2 in the surrounding air. This is why treatment of CO poisoning is to give the patient pure O2, just getting them into fresh air will not help.

 

You can say "Well it has never hurt me" but then how many times do you want to roll the dice?

 

Thanks

Doug



#14 dylan winter

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 05:36 PM

I bow to your superior knowledge and welcome anyone who raises awareness of such dangers

 

however, I assume that every sensible sailor who heats his boat or even cooks down below would have invested in one of these

 

http://www.amazon.co...#productDetails

 

I have something similar and I have so far  failed to make it go off by burning four tealights in Katie L.  I assume four candles are no  worse than parffin/kerosine lamps or meths burners

 

 

so I am very happy to add the reminder that anyone heating or lighting  a small space with naked flames should buy themselves a CO detector



#15 nathan_bossett

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:42 PM

I assume four candles are no  worse than parffin/kerosine lamps or meths burners

 

Aside from the CO, standard candles put out other things that probably aren't all that great to breathe.

 

A few candles for mood lighting in a big dining room? Probably fine.  All night every night in a small space sealed against the cold and wind?  Maybe not so good.



#16 dylan winter

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:08 PM

I assume four candles are no  worse than parffin/kerosine lamps or meths burners

 

Aside from the CO, standard candles put out other things that probably aren't all that great to breathe.

 

A few candles for mood lighting in a big dining room? Probably fine.  All night every night in a small space sealed against the cold and wind?  Maybe not so good.

 

 

you surprise me

 

I would like to see a url that compared particulates from candles to particulates from kerosine

 

and compared to the risks he runs rowing out to his off grid yacht....

 

so just to be safe

 

never light candles

 

never seal your boat

 

always wear a life jacket

 

keep yourself tethered to the boat at all times

 

don't forget your sunblock and don't run with scizzors

 

actually best forget the whole dangerous sailing thing



#17 Steam Flyer

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:15 PM

I assume four candles are no  worse than parffin/kerosine lamps or meths burners

 

Aside from the CO, standard candles put out other things that probably aren't all that great to breathe.

 

A few candles for mood lighting in a big dining room? Probably fine.  All night every night in a small space sealed against the cold and wind?  Maybe not so good.

 

 

The issue is not that candles (or lamps etc etc) put out some CO, but when you put a flowerpot over the flame you create what old-time furnace & fireplace builders used to call a huddling chamber. It will reduce the free draft and recirculate partially combusted air, and while it may not produce excess CO the odds are pretty high that it will produce more than an open flame and it may produce a LOT more CO. It's rolling the dice.

 

Another problem with CO poisoning is that it is very sneaky.

 

FB- Doug



#18 boomer

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:23 PM

Nathan is on the right track about the toxins in some types of candles. The article below can shed some light on the subject.

 

http://www.keeperoft...d-but-true.html

 

Another article below on parafffin candles.

 

http://www.babybelli...araffin-Candles

 

A Breath of fresh air?  Not with Paraffin Candles!

 

Don’t you just love the ambiance, light, warmth, and fragrance that a candle creates?  However, the majority of candles purchased today, because they are inexpensive and readily available, are made from paraffin wax and/or may have wick cores made with lead.

What you may not know is that what is light on your wallet may have a heavy load on your health.

How paraffin candles are made:  Paraffin candles begin at the bottom of an oil barrel; in fact they start as the grayish-black sludge that has been rejected by the oil and gas industry.  This petroleum by-product is then bleached with 100% industrial strength bleach, creating toxic dioxins, and changing the colour to its pleasant whiteness (the bleach you use for laundry – even at full strength – is only at 10%).  Acrolyn, a known carcinogenic chemical, is then added to form the white sludge into solid white blocks.  Although the industry claims this substance is inert, once burned, paraffin releases carcinogenic toxins such as benzene and toluene into the air, where they loiter like a bad house guest.  Other chemicals are added to make paraffin burn a little longer and look a little prettier.  Paraffin blocks are then sold to companies who may add various other chemicals to texturize, artificial dyes for colour and/or synthetic fragrances to create those great candle smells.

 

Unfortunately, the end result is a very toxic product.

Burning paraffin fills the air with many of the same toxins found in burning diesel fuel – not to mention the soot that leaves residue on walls, fabrics and ceilings.  An increasing number of indoor air quality scientists are sounding the alarm about the ability of candles to emit pollutants like benzene, styrene, toluene, acetone and particulate matter and when soot is airborne, these chemicals are subject to inhalation.  Airborne particles can potentially penetrate the deepest areas of the lungs, the lower respiratory tract and alveoli (Krause, 1999). This problem is so severe that North America ’s largest indoor air quality conference recently presented research on the effects of black soot from paraffin candles.

Believe it or not, scented candles are a major source of candle soot deposition. Most candle wax paraffins are saturated hydrocarbons that are solid at room temperature and most fragrance oils are unsaturated hydrocarbons and are liquid at room temperature. The lower the carbon-to-hydrogen ratio, the less soot is produced by the flame. Therefore, waxes that have more fragrances in them produce more soot. In other words, candles labeled "super scented" are more likely to generate soot.

Metal core wicks: If that isn’t enough, the candle industry uses metal core wicks to keep the wick standing straight while the surrounding wax melts.  These metal cores were initially made of lead and lead wick cores have the potential to generate indoor airborne lead concentrations of health concern.  In 1974 the US candle manufacturing industry recognized this potential health concern and voluntarily agreed to cease the production of lead contaminated candles (yay!).  However, lead wicks are still found in the market, especially in imported candles – so it is possible for the consumer to unknowingly purchase candles containing lead wick cores and repeatedly expose themselves to harmful amounts of lead through candle burning.  The EPA has stated that indoor air quality is 3X more polluted than outdoor air quality and a 2000 study found that there is an increase in lead concentrations in our indoor air.

 

Another article with more links> http://www.anapsid.o...cs/candles.html



#19 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:14 PM

I once tried the flowerpot trick on my stove and it was soon raining in the cabin. You *MUST* vent the combustion air overboard. My last boat had a little woodstove and that thing worked wonders to take both the chill and damp out of the cabin. Propane tends to get expensive to use daily, but a vented propane heat stove should work about as well as a wood or coal stove.

BTW - I have one of these and anyone who sleeps aboard with any kind of engine or combustion heat should have something similar:

CMD-4MR-RLY.gif



#20 beezer

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:07 PM

Hi Folks,

 

Well I guess this is my first post on SA.  Pictures of a fine Rack will have to wait as I am on the job right now so to speak.  Soon Soon.

 

But I wanted to chime in here because catalytic heaters were mentioned.  I did the east coast trip on a 32 footer years ago.  Block Island to Key West, then after that on to Panama, and New Zealand (took a few years for the whole trip).   I froze my tail off while doing the east coast and left Annapolis just before Halloween, but lost a few weeks due to engine problems. You are much further north apparently at the same time of year and so have basically no room for delays..  So if you are planning on sailing south you better get moving FAST.  I know you did not ask for advice on that, but as someone who really froze every day in a wet mouldy boat, (and who was well south of you by this point) I think it needs to be said. 

 

OK - Heat .... Do not expect to be warm. I did things that in retrospect were dangerous to keep warm, because we (me and girlfriend) did not have a proper heater.  First try was the clay pot on stove thing (on an alcohol stove no less).  At the time people gave that advice frequently.  But it was too damn cold for that after about a week of trying.  After that we had cheapo paraffin lanters, which was also advice given.  Helped for about another week.  Then I broke down and bought a small portable catalytic heater that took one pound propane cylinders at Walmart. It was a world of difference, but we used it sparingly since the stock of one pounders was small.  Burned one half to one cylinder per day.  Out of curiosity, and not wanting to give bad advice, I looked up if that was actually a stupid action or not.  Turns out it was... sort of (link below). 

 

As per the below paper, the catalytic units apparently do not put out enough CO to be an issue, but they are capable of drawing down the oxygen in the room to hypoxic levels (not suprising).  Since we used it to heat ourselves up between shifts driving down the ICW, and to warm up at anchor only before bed we got away with it. I NEVER left any heater on at night, just plenty of blankets and my then 23 year old girlfriend beneath the covers (sounds kinda nice dunnit..).  I had a carbon monoxide and O2 sensor on the boat, and it never went off.  But if I was to do it again, I would buy a second detector one as a backup and also spend the money on an externally vented heater.  Now, if you are not cruising and plan to run a catalytic heater all day while you relax in your boat, you could die. So don't

 

https://www.cpsc.gov...112559/co03.pdf

 

Judging by the size of your boat, I suspect you may be on a shoestring like I was back then (no offense its awesome to be doing it).  If so, I would say have the propane catalytic to knock the chill off for short runs, and make sure you get plenty of air in the boat in between.  If you can work out the cash, get a real with outside venting as others have advised.  Take big thick wool blankets, hats, long underwear etc.  Spray bleach for the mold like that other poster said.  Baking in the oven was also nice.  Knocked the chill off.  Please be safe and whatever you do get a combined CO/oxygen alarm.  Also - Bacons in Annapolis had a few used heaters leaning up agains the wall last week.  Give em a call, they might go cheap.

 

OK, Thats enough blathering for me.. When you get to Annapolis give me a shout.  I have two houses, one of which I rent out, so if you are frozen by then I could put you up for a couple days gratis.  By then a hot shower is going to feel like Shangrila. 

 

Gook luck and I hope nothing (major) breaks on you,

 

Beezer  



#21 beezer

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:18 PM

heres the bugger.  New version has an oxygen sensor. 

 

http://www.walmart.c...#Specifications



#22 nathan_bossett

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:42 PM

 

I assume four candles are no  worse than parffin/kerosine lamps or meths burners

 

Aside from the CO, standard candles put out other things that probably aren't all that great to breathe.

 

A few candles for mood lighting in a big dining room? Probably fine.  All night every night in a small space sealed against the cold and wind?  Maybe not so good.

 

 

you surprise me

 

I would like to see a url that compared particulates from candles to particulates from kerosine

 

and compared to the risks he runs rowing out to his off grid yacht....

 

Whoah, you're reading more into it than I said.

 

I didn't try to compare kerosene to candles.  I just said that regular candles put out various pollutants you'd probably rather not be breathing for extended periods in confined spaces.  Honestly, I'd try to avoid breathing most combustion products and for that reason combustive sources of heat and light which don't exhaust externally.


Might I light a candle for the night if the diesel heater is down?  Sure.  Would I plan to heat the boat that way on a regular basis? Not if I can avoid it.

 

In addition to particulates, you should look at various other chemicals such as aromatic hydrocarbons which are either not or incompletely burned.

 

Comparative risk such as you ask about would make sense if a comparison was easy: for example, you asked about rowing out to his boat and if for some reason it was much, much safer to use an outboard I'd say so.


The issue here is assuming incremental risk without a stated compelling reason to do so.  He asked for advice about what he should do and obtain.  People are giving it.  If he comes back and says that an item is infeasible, we'll make some other suggestions.

 

And Steam Flyer, I understand the issue with CO.  My comment was an observation that CO is not the only potential problem with burning stuff inside the boat to get heat or light.  Others including yourself are covering the CO-specific risks and I'm not arguing with those.



#23 NoStrings

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:49 AM

Nathan is on the right track about the toxins in some types of candles. The article below can shed some light on the subject.
 
http://www.keeperoft...d-but-true.html
 
Another article below on parafffin candles.
 
http://www.babybelli...araffin-Candles
 
A Breath of fresh air?  Not with Paraffin Candles!
 
Don’t you just love the ambiance, light, warmth, and fragrance that a candle creates?  However, the majority of candles purchased today, because they are inexpensive and readily available, are made from paraffin wax and/or may have wick cores made with lead.
What you may not know is that what is light on your wallet may have a heavy load on your health.How paraffin candles are made:  Paraffin candles begin at the bottom of an oil barrel; in fact they start as the grayish-black sludge that has been rejected by the oil and gas industry.  This petroleum by-product is then bleached with 100% industrial strength bleach, creating toxic dioxins, and changing the colour to its pleasant whiteness (the bleach you use for laundry – even at full strength – is only at 10%).  Acrolyn, a known carcinogenic chemical, is then added to form the white sludge into solid white blocks.  Although the industry claims this substance is inert, once burned, paraffin releases carcinogenic toxins such as benzene and toluene into the air, where they loiter like a bad house guest.  Other chemicals are added to make paraffin burn a little longer and look a little prettier.  Paraffin blocks are then sold to companies who may add various other chemicals to texturize, artificial dyes for colour and/or synthetic fragrances to create those great candle smells.
 
Unfortunately, the end result is a very toxic product.
Burning paraffin fills the air with many of the same toxins found in burning diesel fuel – not to mention the soot that leaves residue on walls, fabrics and ceilings.  An increasing number of indoor air quality scientists are sounding the alarm about the ability of candles to emit pollutants like benzene, styrene, toluene, acetone and particulate matter and when soot is airborne, these chemicals are subject to inhalation.  Airborne particles can potentially penetrate the deepest areas of the lungs, the lower respiratory tract and alveoli (Krause, 1999). This problem is so severe that North America ’s largest indoor air quality conference recently presented research on the effects of black soot from paraffin candles.
Believe it or not, scented candles are a major source of candle soot deposition. Most candle wax paraffins are saturated hydrocarbons that are solid at room temperature and most fragrance oils are unsaturated hydrocarbons and are liquid at room temperature. The lower the carbon-to-hydrogen ratio, the less soot is produced by the flame. Therefore, waxes that have more fragrances in them produce more soot. In other words, candles labeled "super scented" are more likely to generate soot.Metal core wicks: If that isn’t enough, the candle industry uses metal core wicks to keep the wick standing straight while the surrounding wax melts.  These metal cores were initially made of lead and lead wick cores have the potential to generate indoor airborne lead concentrations of health concern.  In 1974 the US candle manufacturing industry recognized this potential health concern and voluntarily agreed to cease the production of lead contaminated candles (yay!).  However, lead wicks are still found in the market, especially in imported candles – so it is possible for the consumer to unknowingly purchase candles containing lead wick cores and repeatedly expose themselves to harmful amounts of lead through candle burning.  The EPA has stated that indoor air quality is 3X more polluted than outdoor air quality and a 2000 study found that there is an increase in lead concentrations in our indoor air.
 
Another article with more links> http://www.anapsid.o...cs/candles.html


Goddamnit, I knew it! 14 f-ing years of enough candles in the bedroom to summon the Virgin Mary...romance my ass, she was trying to kill me.

#24 psychosailing

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 03:05 AM

 

I assume four candles are no  worse than parffin/kerosine lamps or meths burners

 

Aside from the CO, standard candles put out other things that probably aren't all that great to breathe.

 

A few candles for mood lighting in a big dining room? Probably fine.  All night every night in a small space sealed against the cold and wind?  Maybe not so good.

 

 

you surprise me

 

I would like to see a url that compared particulates from candles to particulates from kerosine

 

and compared to the risks he runs rowing out to his off grid yacht....

 

so just to be safe

 

never light candles

 

never seal your boat

 

always wear a life jacket

 

keep yourself tethered to the boat at all times

 

don't forget your sunblock and don't run with scizzors

 

actually best forget the whole dangerous sailing thing

 

:) :) :)

 

Thanks for the tons of advices. I have to be honest and say that I am a bit confused, but it's a good beginning.

 

Just to clarify my position, we have (there is a girlfriend) co/oxygen sensor already placed for the propane stove.We loaded up with blankets, sleeping bags, long underwear. If the weather and wind is good we do overnight passages, and we contemplate the idea of a few strategic marina stops for hot shower and shorepower relief.  It's not going to be a pleasure cruise, we know it already, but we are late on the schedule and we have to adapt and get asap to Florida. We are also hoping that Georgia would be mild compared to what we are about to face in the next weeks.

 

Too bad the candle/pot idea seems so dangerous, however our situation is already dicey... We have an electric engine, a boat less than 30 ft, chinese sails, deck stepped mast, no raft, gasoline and propane storage, etc. that being killed by candles would be very disappointing.



#25 psychosailing

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 03:10 AM

Hi Folks,

 

Well I guess this is my first post on SA.  Pictures of a fine Rack will have to wait as I am on the job right now so to speak.  Soon Soon.

 

But I wanted to chime in here because catalytic heaters were mentioned.  I did the east coast trip on a 32 footer years ago.  Block Island to Key West, then after that on to Panama, and New Zealand (took a few years for the whole trip).   I froze my tail off while doing the east coast and left Annapolis just before Halloween, but lost a few weeks due to engine problems. You are much further north apparently at the same time of year and so have basically no room for delays..  So if you are planning on sailing south you better get moving FAST.  I know you did not ask for advice on that, but as someone who really froze every day in a wet mouldy boat, (and who was well south of you by this point) I think it needs to be said. 

 

OK - Heat .... Do not expect to be warm. I did things that in retrospect were dangerous to keep warm, because we (me and girlfriend) did not have a proper heater.  First try was the clay pot on stove thing (on an alcohol stove no less).  At the time people gave that advice frequently.  But it was too damn cold for that after about a week of trying.  After that we had cheapo paraffin lanters, which was also advice given.  Helped for about another week.  Then I broke down and bought a small portable catalytic heater that took one pound propane cylinders at Walmart. It was a world of difference, but we used it sparingly since the stock of one pounders was small.  Burned one half to one cylinder per day.  Out of curiosity, and not wanting to give bad advice, I looked up if that was actually a stupid action or not.  Turns out it was... sort of (link below). 

 

As per the below paper, the catalytic units apparently do not put out enough CO to be an issue, but they are capable of drawing down the oxygen in the room to hypoxic levels (not suprising).  Since we used it to heat ourselves up between shifts driving down the ICW, and to warm up at anchor only before bed we got away with it. I NEVER left any heater on at night, just plenty of blankets and my then 23 year old girlfriend beneath the covers (sounds kinda nice dunnit..).  I had a carbon monoxide and O2 sensor on the boat, and it never went off.  But if I was to do it again, I would buy a second detector one as a backup and also spend the money on an externally vented heater.  Now, if you are not cruising and plan to run a catalytic heater all day while you relax in your boat, you could die. So don't

 

https://www.cpsc.gov...112559/co03.pdf

 

Judging by the size of your boat, I suspect you may be on a shoestring like I was back then (no offense its awesome to be doing it).  If so, I would say have the propane catalytic to knock the chill off for short runs, and make sure you get plenty of air in the boat in between.  If you can work out the cash, get a real with outside venting as others have advised.  Take big thick wool blankets, hats, long underwear etc.  Spray bleach for the mold like that other poster said.  Baking in the oven was also nice.  Knocked the chill off.  Please be safe and whatever you do get a combined CO/oxygen alarm.  Also - Bacons in Annapolis had a few used heaters leaning up agains the wall last week.  Give em a call, they might go cheap.

 

OK, Thats enough blathering for me.. When you get to Annapolis give me a shout.  I have two houses, one of which I rent out, so if you are frozen by then I could put you up for a couple days gratis.  By then a hot shower is going to feel like Shangrila. 

 

Gook luck and I hope nothing (major) breaks on you,

 

Beezer 

 

Thanks for the generous offer Beeer, and for the knowledgeable advices

 

I'll let you know if I will get to Annapolis, it all depends on the wind, my motoring range is very limited so ICW will be restricted for us.

 

Fabio



#26 floating dutchman

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:51 AM

 

I assume four candles are no  worse than parffin/kerosine lamps or meths burners

 

Aside from the CO, standard candles put out other things that probably aren't all that great to breathe.

 

A few candles for mood lighting in a big dining room? Probably fine.  All night every night in a small space sealed against the cold and wind?  Maybe not so good.

 

 

you surprise me

 

I would like to see a url that compared particulates from candles to particulates from kerosine

 

and compared to the risks he runs rowing out to his off grid yacht....

 

so just to be safe

 

never light candles

 

never seal your boat

 

always wear a life jacket

 

keep yourself tethered to the boat at all times

 

don't forget your sunblock and don't run with scizzors

 

actually best forget the whole dangerous sailing thing

 

Dillan, your being a twit,  I've tried the flower pot on my boat, yea it heats real well but I won't use it without the hatch open, and that has a detrimental effect to heating.

 

Co and Co2 are heavier than air, in draughty old houses before electric lighting nobody (few) people died.

Funny thing about boats, they tend kind of air tight from the gunnel down, think about that for a second.



#27 Mark Morwood

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:36 AM

I would love a dodger too, but the budget is very little... but I do have a huge humbrella :) The only portable fuel I have onboard is propane, my engine is electric so no diesel... but I have a huge force 10 stove (compared to the boat). Is there any good propane (vented) heater out there?

 

Good idea the heather filter stuff under the mattresses!

 

Just curious, how are you charging the batteries for your electric engine? From the sounds of it you are trying to get south as quickly as you can, which would generally mean quite a lot of motoring. I'm assuming (maybe incorrectly) that you are planning to go down the intra-coastal, which is usually mostly a motoring trip.

 

Just took a look at your blog. Keep your chin up. You are doing something that most people only dream of.

 

Mark.



#28 dylan winter

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:24 AM

 

 

I assume four candles are no  worse than parffin/kerosine lamps or meths burners

 

Aside from the CO, standard candles put out other things that probably aren't all that great to breathe.

 

A few candles for mood lighting in a big dining room? Probably fine.  All night every night in a small space sealed against the cold and wind?  Maybe not so good.

 

 

you surprise me

 

I would like to see a url that compared particulates from candles to particulates from kerosine

 

and compared to the risks he runs rowing out to his off grid yacht....

 

so just to be safe

 

never light candles

 

never seal your boat

 

always wear a life jacket

 

keep yourself tethered to the boat at all times

 

don't forget your sunblock and don't run with scizzors

 

actually best forget the whole dangerous sailing thing

 

Dillan, your being a twit,  I've tried the flower pot on my boat, yea it heats real well but I won't use it without the hatch open, and that has a detrimental effect to heating.

 

Co and Co2 are heavier than air, in draughty old houses before electric lighting nobody (few) people died.

Funny thing about boats, they tend kind of air tight from the gunnel down, think about that for a second.

 

hatch open

 

of course

 

I may be a twit but not a crazy man



#29 GnarlyItWas

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:01 PM

I live in coastal ga, I think it's pretty fair to say it is a lot milder. There may be the odd chilly few days and frosty mornings,  but it can also get into the 70's on a good day in Jan. Looks like tons of anchoring options.



#30 psychosailing

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 01:08 PM

Bettery are charged via wind generator, propeller regeneration under sail and backup portable gas generator powering battery charger (in case of motoring exceeding 15nm or to get charged back quickly). We have to plan ahead our sailing very accurately and avoid ICW as much as possible. That's way "getting south asap" sounds a little ridicoulos ;) Here up north we have good northerlies this time of the year I wonder how the wind change along the coast.

 

Would Beeswax candles reduce the air pollutant? Maybe it's gonna cost a bit more, but I am sure less than a heater.  The boat has a very deep bilge that goes all the way down the modified long keel. I placed the CO sensor down there, so it should go off pretty much on time before the boat become an explosive chamber.

 

I can't wait to be in Georgia :) Winter is coming...



#31 Veeger

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 06:12 PM

Umm, CO is Carbon Monoxide.  It won't blow up but it will replace oxygen and deny you the ability to breathe.  Low down is good in this case.  A propane detector is also good down low.  Both Propane and CO are heavier than air, i.e. they accumulate like invisible bilgewater...

 

I think I'm more interested in your electrical propulsion issues.  It's great for short ranges as you well know but you're about to embark on a pretty long run south.  Even if you sail outside most of the way, the inlets and rivers and shoals outside the inlet could really force you into longer motoring runs than you're thinking.  It's kind of a pretty cool challenge but the season you're doing it in is not a kind one.  I also sensing a minimal experience level and when you put the following together, well, you might want to reconsider.

 

1)Low experience

2)Fall/winter season

3)Extremely limited powering range

4)Rudimentary heat sources

5)Portable recharging devices

 

=  Mebbe wait for spring. 

 

You'll remember the trip at least!



#32 bpw

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:50 PM

Too bad the candle/pot idea seems so dangerous, however our situation is already dicey... We have an electric engine, a boat less than 30 ft, chinese sails, deck stepped mast, no raft, gasoline and propane storage, etc. that being killed by candles would be very disappointing.

 

You basically just described our boat, except we have a very old shipmate wood stove, a raft and no engine at all, and I am typing this sitting at 55 south latitude.  So don't stress too much about gear, seamanship is a lot more about what you do than what you have.



#33 Ishmael

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 07:55 PM

Too bad the candle/pot idea seems so dangerous, however our situation is already dicey... We have an electric engine, a boat less than 30 ft, chinese sails, deck stepped mast, no raft, gasoline and propane storage, etc. that being killed by candles would be very disappointing.

 

You basically just described our boat, except we have a very old shipmate wood stove, a raft and no engine at all, and I am typing this sitting at 55 south latitude.  So don't stress too much about gear, seamanship is a lot more about what you do than what you have.

 

So...are you asking us to call in a rescue mission for you, or are you there on purpose?



#34 bpw

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:03 PM

 

Too bad the candle/pot idea seems so dangerous, however our situation is already dicey... We have an electric engine, a boat less than 30 ft, chinese sails, deck stepped mast, no raft, gasoline and propane storage, etc. that being killed by candles would be very disappointing.

 

You basically just described our boat, except we have a very old shipmate wood stove, a raft and no engine at all, and I am typing this sitting at 55 south latitude.  So don't stress too much about gear, seamanship is a lot more about what you do than what you have.

 

So...are you asking us to call in a rescue mission for you, or are you there on purpose?

 

Crazy as it may sound, we decided Chile would be a much more interesting route from San Francisco to Boston than the Panama Canal.

 

It has been challenging but we have never regretted the choice.  A bit more work than the average trade-wind cruise but you get access to an amazing place with very few boats.

 

Happily sitting in the very warm Micalvi Yacht Club right now.  Southern-most YC in the world and very welcoming.  Getting ready to head to the Falklands soon.



#35 Remodel

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:32 PM

heres the bugger.  New version has an oxygen sensor. 

 

http://www.walmart.c...#Specifications

This looks pretty nice for a lot of applications. How does it work indoors? Do you have to run some kind of vent hose through a window?



#36 Ishmael

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:38 PM

 

 

Too bad the candle/pot idea seems so dangerous, however our situation is already dicey... We have an electric engine, a boat less than 30 ft, chinese sails, deck stepped mast, no raft, gasoline and propane storage, etc. that being killed by candles would be very disappointing.

 

You basically just described our boat, except we have a very old shipmate wood stove, a raft and no engine at all, and I am typing this sitting at 55 south latitude.  So don't stress too much about gear, seamanship is a lot more about what you do than what you have.

 

So...are you asking us to call in a rescue mission for you, or are you there on purpose?

 

Crazy as it may sound, we decided Chile would be a much more interesting route from San Francisco to Boston than the Panama Canal.

 

It has been challenging but we have never regretted the choice.  A bit more work than the average trade-wind cruise but you get access to an amazing place with very few boats.

 

Happily sitting in the very warm Micalvi Yacht Club right now.  Southern-most YC in the world and very welcoming.  Getting ready to head to the Falklands soon.

 

Hats off! Enjoy and sail safe.



#37 Balder

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:32 AM

 CO binds to red blood cells same as O2 and tends to not let go. It is possible to suffocate from CO exposure at quite low levels, while there is still plenty of O2 in the surrounding air. This is why treatment of CO poisoning is to give the patient pure O2, just getting them into fresh air will not help.

 

Actually CO binds to red blood cells 200X more efficiently than oxygen!



#38 psychosailing

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:55 AM

Umm, CO is Carbon Monoxide.  It won't blow up but it will replace oxygen and deny you the ability to breathe.  Low down is good in this case.  A propane detector is also good down low.  Both Propane and CO are heavier than air, i.e. they accumulate like invisible bilgewater...

 

I think I'm more interested in your electrical propulsion issues.  It's great for short ranges as you well know but you're about to embark on a pretty long run south.  Even if you sail outside most of the way, the inlets and rivers and shoals outside the inlet could really force you into longer motoring runs than you're thinking.  It's kind of a pretty cool challenge but the season you're doing it in is not a kind one.  I also sensing a minimal experience level and when you put the following together, well, you might want to reconsider.

 

1)Low experience

2)Fall/winter season

3)Extremely limited powering range

4)Rudimentary heat sources

5)Portable recharging devices

 

=  Mebbe wait for spring. 

 

You'll remember the trip at least!

 

I remember pretty much all the sailing I did, but yes this one will be quite memorable, as the 5 months refit. This is not even the most rundown boat I ever sailed, and it's definetely cozy, the space to heat is minimum and the ventilation is quite good due to dorade vents.

 

If it find it unbearable then will park up and wait, but I have jobs waiting for me in FL, I'll do sure my best to get there.

 

Thoughts about this sensor?

 

http://www.pplmotorh...CFc6h4AodJDQALg



#39 psychosailing

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:59 AM

Too bad the candle/pot idea seems so dangerous, however our situation is already dicey... We have an electric engine, a boat less than 30 ft, chinese sails, deck stepped mast, no raft, gasoline and propane storage, etc. that being killed by candles would be very disappointing.

 

You basically just described our boat, except we have a very old shipmate wood stove, a raft and no engine at all, and I am typing this sitting at 55 south latitude.  So don't stress too much about gear, seamanship is a lot more about what you do than what you have.

 

Chapeu!

 

How do you do for manouevering? Thanks for the support, on boats everything's is about to be prepared and to improvise.



#40 jgbrown

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 06:32 AM

Lived aboard a winter on my Alberg 30.  At first it was my girlfriend at the time and I sharing one settee with a bit of old memory foam.  

V-berth was sealed off with clear plastic as I was busy fixing it up.   Sure took a while to get used to it!

 

 

P9000 on the bulkhead(propane).  Burns external air, did OK warming the boat up.

For propane storage, I got a stainless steel fender holder from west marine(cost me about 50$ I think?) and attached it to the aft rail over the water.

Tank in there with a  nylon cam strap(not the ratcheting ones).  Much easier than hose clamping it to the rail or other goofy solutions, and if you're filling up every week or two you'll appreciate that.

There is an almost unlimited supply of free nylon cam straps in any town, PM me for the info on that.

Propane hose is cheap from a good industrial supplier, about 25% of the cost of poorer quality hose from a marine place.  The same for a better quality regulator etc.  

 

 

 

 

Once the V-berth was accessible without a tyvek suit via the hatch, I put up a heavy thermal curtain on a rod sized long enough to go 6" past the edge of the bulkead to let it get pushed completely into the head.   

That hung all the way to the floor, it made a huge difference, at the worst cold we lived in salon exclusively.  Think it cost me 25$ on sale at home Depot.

http://www.homedepot...5-inches/925410

 

 

The single best cost to benefit was the cheap interlocking foam tiles from Home Depot again.  Cut to width, trimmed the ends.

Within 20 minutes of putting them down we felt the difference in the air temperatures at leg level especially, and no more cold feet.

Easy to lift one for access to the bilge or all for cleaning the floor every few months.  No worries about damage the floor with dirty boots either.

http://reviews.homed...ews/reviews.htm

I cut another piece to fit in the v-berth hatch to insulate that too.

 

Memory foam feels much warmer faster when you get into bed.  a Queen mattress topper would do 2 settees, or one V-berth for my boat.

 

 

Hypervent under every bedding helped for most of the year, when it got really bad I got some of the thin plastic painters use for masking, and wrapped the foam, loosely taping the open edges, in the V-berth I made sure these were in the center. Barely noticeable, but stopped the foam absorbing moisture and going moldy.

 There's a cheaper version of Hypervent sold at hardware stores but it's not as nice.

I used it cut to fit in cockpit lockers too, it let water drain by without constantly soaking my stuff.

Hypervent or insulation against the hull kept clothing and belongings from molding as well.

 

http://www.hyperventmarine.com/

 

 

 

Insulation foam, the best price to R value rating I found was Volara foam sold by the foot, it's almost identical to the blue foam(Ensolite) pads that used to be sold for sleeping on when camping.  Closed cell, so no moisture issues.  Armaflex was much more expensive and didn't come by the foot.

Cut and fit to the hull easily, for templating I use strips of doorskin ripped into 2" widths and glued with hot glue.

Reflectix is better than nothing but not by much, we don't make much radiant heat, so it's really got a much lower R value than suggested.

Volara is much less ugly too, and fairly durable.

 

For clothes and bedding storage I tried those vacuum bags and hated them, they eventually always leaked and the ziplock closure failed or got hard to manage in the cold. I went back to dry bags, I like the ones with a purge valve, pack your stuff in, close the roll top and squish the air out.  Non purge ones with a bit of air left and a nice cloth cover make a good armrest on the settee.

 

 

For killing mold I tried the mold sprays(Moldex etc), they didn't do much.  I preferred Pinesol with a bit of bleach instead of just bleach.

I like the smell of tea tree oil and it did kill mold in bedding, but never got it to stay emulsified in water well.

 

One bottle of tea tree oil added to a spray bottle of 99% rubbing alcohol, makes a great spray.

Also without the tea tree oil it's very good for cleaning electronics if they have gotten wet.

http://www.amazon.co...z/dp/B0006GBEFI



#41 psychosailing

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 10:48 PM

Lived aboard a winter on my Alberg 30.  At first it was my girlfriend at the time and I sharing one settee with a bit of old memory foam.  

V-berth was sealed off with clear plastic as I was busy fixing it up.   Sure took a while to get used to it!

 

 

P9000 on the bulkhead(propane).  Burns external air, did OK warming the boat up.

For propane storage, I got a stainless steel fender holder from west marine(cost me about 50$ I think?) and attached it to the aft rail over the water.

Tank in there with a  nylon cam strap(not the ratcheting ones).  Much easier than hose clamping it to the rail or other goofy solutions, and if you're filling up every week or two you'll appreciate that.

There is an almost unlimited supply of free nylon cam straps in any town, PM me for the info on that.

Propane hose is cheap from a good industrial supplier, about 25% of the cost of poorer quality hose from a marine place.  The same for a better quality regulator etc.  

 

 

 

 

Once the V-berth was accessible without a tyvek suit via the hatch, I put up a heavy thermal curtain on a rod sized long enough to go 6" past the edge of the bulkead to let it get pushed completely into the head.   

That hung all the way to the floor, it made a huge difference, at the worst cold we lived in salon exclusively.  Think it cost me 25$ on sale at home Depot.

http://www.homedepot...5-inches/925410

 

 

The single best cost to benefit was the cheap interlocking foam tiles from Home Depot again.  Cut to width, trimmed the ends.

Within 20 minutes of putting them down we felt the difference in the air temperatures at leg level especially, and no more cold feet.

Easy to lift one for access to the bilge or all for cleaning the floor every few months.  No worries about damage the floor with dirty boots either.

http://reviews.homed...ews/reviews.htm

I cut another piece to fit in the v-berth hatch to insulate that too.

 

Memory foam feels much warmer faster when you get into bed.  a Queen mattress topper would do 2 settees, or one V-berth for my boat.

 

 

Hypervent under every bedding helped for most of the year, when it got really bad I got some of the thin plastic painters use for masking, and wrapped the foam, loosely taping the open edges, in the V-berth I made sure these were in the center. Barely noticeable, but stopped the foam absorbing moisture and going moldy.

 There's a cheaper version of Hypervent sold at hardware stores but it's not as nice.

I used it cut to fit in cockpit lockers too, it let water drain by without constantly soaking my stuff.

Hypervent or insulation against the hull kept clothing and belongings from molding as well.

 

http://www.hyperventmarine.com/

 

 

 

Insulation foam, the best price to R value rating I found was Volara foam sold by the foot, it's almost identical to the blue foam(Ensolite) pads that used to be sold for sleeping on when camping.  Closed cell, so no moisture issues.  Armaflex was much more expensive and didn't come by the foot.

Cut and fit to the hull easily, for templating I use strips of doorskin ripped into 2" widths and glued with hot glue.

Reflectix is better than nothing but not by much, we don't make much radiant heat, so it's really got a much lower R value than suggested.

Volara is much less ugly too, and fairly durable.

 

For clothes and bedding storage I tried those vacuum bags and hated them, they eventually always leaked and the ziplock closure failed or got hard to manage in the cold. I went back to dry bags, I like the ones with a purge valve, pack your stuff in, close the roll top and squish the air out.  Non purge ones with a bit of air left and a nice cloth cover make a good armrest on the settee.

 

 

For killing mold I tried the mold sprays(Moldex etc), they didn't do much.  I preferred Pinesol with a bit of bleach instead of just bleach.

I like the smell of tea tree oil and it did kill mold in bedding, but never got it to stay emulsified in water well.

 

One bottle of tea tree oil added to a spray bottle of 99% rubbing alcohol, makes a great spray.

Also without the tea tree oil it's very good for cleaning electronics if they have gotten wet.

http://www.amazon.co...z/dp/B0006GBEFI

 

Thanks jgbrown, these are smart ideas! I am going to pick some of this advices.

 

We already used the interlocking rubber floor, due to hardcore refit but also because they are soft (easy to kneel on) and definetely warm. Plus they are completely washable. We are going to keep them for longer I think.

 

The hypervent stuff seems quite expensive 12 $/foot. Somebody mentioned the heater air filter material, that maybe it's not as good quality but definetely cheaper.

 

My girlfriend is going to love the tea tree oil... Good to know it's good for electronic cleaning too!



#42 NorCalLaser

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 11:45 PM

youre going to be a single man by Feb. 1



#43 Bob Perry

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 12:11 AM

Be very careful or you will end up smelling like you live aboard.



#44 Ishmael

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 12:34 AM

Especially once you start smearing salmon oil in your hair.



#45 rattus32

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:55 AM

...

 

The hypervent stuff seems quite expensive 12 $/foot. Somebody mentioned the heater air filter material, that maybe it's not as good quality but definetely cheaper.

 

My girlfriend is going to love the tea tree oil... Good to know it's good for electronic cleaning too!

 

Instead of Hypervent, try Enkadrain drain fabric - as far as I can tell, it's the same stuff; available for about $1/ft2 from building supply reps.



#46 psychosailing

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 01:42 AM

...

 

The hypervent stuff seems quite expensive 12 $/foot. Somebody mentioned the heater air filter material, that maybe it's not as good quality but definetely cheaper.

 

My girlfriend is going to love the tea tree oil... Good to know it's good for electronic cleaning too!

 

Instead of Hypervent, try Enkadrain drain fabric - as far as I can tell, it's the same stuff; available for about $1/ft2 from building supply reps.

 

Thanks for the hint. I did a quick search on the web but couldn't find any distributor. I wrote to the manufacterer. Where did you buy Enkadrain?



#47 Great Red Shark

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 02:00 AM

Friends that lived aboard for a PNW winter said the only thing they found to keep the bedding from getting soaked from condensation was to place an incandescent lamp in the space under the bunk.

If you have the amps for it, electric heating does avoid all that combustion/byproduct stuff.

#48 Wess

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 04:28 PM

What this guy said.  In spades.  Get moving now!

I froze my tail off while doing the east coast and left Annapolis just before Halloween, but lost a few weeks due to engine problems. You are much further north apparently at the same time of year and so have basically no room for delays..  So if you are planning on sailing south you better get moving FAST.  I know you did not ask for advice on that, but as someone who really froze every day in a wet mouldy boat, (and who was well south of you by this point) I think it needs to be said. 

 

OK - Heat .... Do not expect to be warm. I did things that in retrospect were dangerous to keep warm, because we (me and girlfriend) did not have a proper heater.  I would say have the propane catalytic to knock the chill off for short runs, and make sure you get plenty of air in the boat in between.  If you can work out the cash, get a real with outside venting as others have advised.  Take big thick wool blankets, hats, long underwear etc.  Spray bleach for the mold like that other poster said.  Baking in the oven was also nice.  Knocked the chill off.  Please be safe and whatever you do get a combined CO/oxygen alarm.  Also - Bacons in Annapolis had a few used heaters leaning up agains the wall last week.  Give em a call, they might go cheap.

 

OK, Thats enough blathering for me.. When you get to Annapolis give me a shout.  I have two houses, one of which I rent out, so if you are frozen by then I could put you up for a couple days gratis.  By then a hot shower is going to feel like Shangrila. 

 

Gook luck and I hope nothing (major) breaks on you,

 

Beezer  

Its been a long time and the trip has the potential to be hell or heaven.  At some point you are likely to be sol cold and wet/damp you wikll wish you were in hell for just a bit, lol.

 

eep in mind a lot of places will be closed or closing up by November 1 and your options for fuel, provisions, etc... diminish significantly along the way.

 

Go south, young man.  Go south.  FAST!

 

Dang, I miss those days.

 

What blog?



#49 boomer

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:04 PM

Easy to find with the clues in this thread. Reading his blog and history the skipper does have experience as a charter skipper on a few yachts. He also is has quite an impressive academic background previously. With a certain degree of enthusiasm, pluck and perseverance, I'm quite certain they understands the obstacles; and would rather that he and his SO are as comfortable as possible, preferably without freezing their buns off.

 

Also of note in your search you'll find two Columbia 29's that are electric motor powered and coincidentally the same name.

 

The other electric motor powered Columbia 29....



#50 Wess

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:17 PM

Too old for games. If I want a mystery I'll read Poe, Dostoyevsky, or Christie, not SA!



#51 boomer

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 05:35 PM

Ha! It took less then a second after typing two names and two numbers.

 

Actually found more then just a blog the other day. Quite an inspiring young couple with a passion and wish them the best.

 

BTW....There is more then the link below to be found on the web....

 

http://lapossibilita...ss.com/lautore/



#52 Windward

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:14 AM

youre going to be a single man by Feb. 1

 

 

As a liveaboard for 5 years or so with a girlfriend and now wife, while I should be disagreeing, this post got a good laugh.

 

Vegas odds anyone?

 

Well done NorCal.  Props.



#53 psychosailing

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:35 AM

good detective job!

 

Ha! It took less then a second after typing two names and two numbers.

 

Actually found more then just a blog the other day. Quite an inspiring young couple with a passion and wish them the best.

 

BTW....There is more then the link below to be found on the web....

 

http://lapossibilita...ss.com/lautore/

 

Good detective job boomer!

 

Tranquillity is now our boat. We kept the electric engine (year 2008) and re-did everything else new. The major upgradings had been done in the 80s by one of the owner who used to sail her to Nova Scotia, Caribbean and Bermuda from MA. She proved to be ocean going.

The following owners just destroyed the destroyable. So we ended up with a project boat that we almost completed. Launch is scheduled for Halloween, then ten days of shakedown in the vicinity and we plan to leave around the 10th. We won't rush because of the cold, it's not wise to leave just because of the cold, without the necessary tests and adjustments. Sailing the boat enough to know her.

 

We are not going cruising (fucking around in Chesapeake and ICW) we are heading south, I really need to make money and go back to work in Florida.

 

Here is her new make up

 

IMG_5521.jpg



#54 boomer

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:11 PM

psych- 

 

After reading your history, figured you want to get south and get back to work, as soon as possible to build your kitty. BTW, I like the new topside color, she looks great.  Also of note we have a fellow in our marina who has the MK II version of the Columbia 29, he 's owned her for a long long time. He's also one of the few sailors in our marina who actually sails his boat on regular basis, including in and out of his slip. I asked him why he always sails in and and out of his slip. He said because he didn't want to get out of practice, besides the S&S design is surprisingly nimble under sail, with a decent turn of speed. I asked him once if he every thought about replacing her with something more modern. He said he never felt the need, since the boat handles and sails so well.  Looking forward to following your adventures via your blog. Good luck and all the best to the both of you!

 

boomer



#55 Ajax

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:39 PM

I did the liveaboard thing on the Chesapeake last year, and part of it was during the winter, so here's my .02 cents:

 

Yes, the catalytic propane heaters can draw down the oxygen in a confined space. The instructions CLEARLY state this, and direct you to provide an adequate oxygen supply.  Sailboats do seal up, but they aren't submarines for Christ's sake. Install vents in your hatch boards or crack open a port light. You don't have to operate it with the sliding hatch wide-the-hell-open.

 

Coupled with a good CO/O2 sensor, a catalytic propane heater can be safe if the directions are followed.

 

I have hypervent and it worked perfectly at keeping my cushions dry. I used Formula 409 spray to keep mold away. I kept separate sets of scrubby sponges. One set was for sanitary areas like the head sink and galley areas. One set was for cabin sole and one set was for the toilet. Never shall the three inter-mingle. The foam tiles for winter habitation are a great idea. I wish I'd thought of that.

 

I am fascinated by your electric propulsion system. I think it's great.

The Atlantic can be quite unruly during the winter. I worry that your schedule is pushing you into a rash decsion, especially because your electric propulsion is unsuitable for the ICW.

 

Schedules kill sailors.  Please be careful, and don't hesitate to ask us for help on the way down if something goes sour. I'm on the middle Chesapeake.

 

Otherwise, I'm totally in your corner. :)



#56 Windward

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:51 PM

That's what I love about this place.  All the offers of help and places to stay are awesome from a bunch of essentially strangers.

 

Well done folks.

 

Sometimes it's hard to get past all the BG and Woofsey bashing in the other threads. Here is a ray of light.



#57 olaf hart

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:32 PM

We just tell them to HTFU and they usually go away.



#58 nathan_bossett

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 09:55 PM

We are not going cruising (fucking around in Chesapeake and ICW) we are heading south, I really need to make money and go back to work in Florida.

 

I guess the 10nm range on the electric motor will get you out of the channel when something big is coming.

 

Since you're on a schedule, is there any possibility of getting an outboard or something so you can keep moving on a calm day, enter/exit harbors against the tide, etc.?



#59 psychosailing

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 03:12 AM

psych- 

 

After reading your history, figured you want to get south and get back to work, as soon as possible to build your kitty. BTW, I like the new topside color, she looks great.  Also of note we have a fellow in our marina who has the MK II version of the Columbia 29, he 's owned her for a long long time. He's also one of the few sailors in our marina who actually sails his boat on regular basis, including in and out of his slip. I asked him why he always sails in and and out of his slip. He said because he didn't want to get out of practice, besides the S&S design is surprisingly nimble under sail, with a decent turn of speed. I asked him once if he every thought about replacing her with something more modern. He said he never felt the need, since the boat handles and sails so well.  Looking forward to following your adventures via your blog. Good luck and all the best to the both of you!

 

boomer

 

Boomer,

 

I hope what your friend says about the Columbia 29 it's true, I can't wait to sail her! A friend of mine in Europe says that S&S never failed a boat. It's common opinion that Columbia did not build with high quality standards but the design should be flawless. I'll try to keep the blog posted as much as I can.

With the electric drive I will depend on the sail, so passage planning it's fundamental.

 

It's a sailingboat by the way, and sails should be her main of propulsion!

 

I did the liveaboard thing on the Chesapeake last year, and part of it was during the winter, so here's my .02 cents:

 

Yes, the catalytic propane heaters can draw down the oxygen in a confined space. The instructions CLEARLY state this, and direct you to provide an adequate oxygen supply.  Sailboats do seal up, but they aren't submarines for Christ's sake. Install vents in your hatch boards or crack open a port light. You don't have to operate it with the sliding hatch wide-the-hell-open.

 

Coupled with a good CO/O2 sensor, a catalytic propane heater can be safe if the directions are followed.

 

I have hypervent and it worked perfectly at keeping my cushions dry. I used Formula 409 spray to keep mold away. I kept separate sets of scrubby sponges. One set was for sanitary areas like the head sink and galley areas. One set was for cabin sole and one set was for the toilet. Never shall the three inter-mingle. The foam tiles for winter habitation are a great idea. I wish I'd thought of that.

 

I am fascinated by your electric propulsion system. I think it's great.

The Atlantic can be quite unruly during the winter. I worry that your schedule is pushing you into a rash decsion, especially because your electric propulsion is unsuitable for the ICW.

 

Schedules kill sailors.  Please be careful, and don't hesitate to ask us for help on the way down if something goes sour. I'm on the middle Chesapeake.

 

Otherwise, I'm totally in your corner. :)

 

Thanks Ajax, I appreciate your offer and I will keep it in mind when I will be cold, miserable and sour ;) . I am coupling the electric drive with a portable Honda generator that operates the battery charger. I will have to test the system, but it could be a good back up in case I need to motor longer than 10nm. I am in a hurry but I have no schedule, just get away from the cold and start making some cash.

 

That's what I love about this place.  All the offers of help and places to stay are awesome from a bunch of essentially strangers.

 

Well done folks.

 

Sometimes it's hard to get past all the BG and Woofsey bashing in the other threads. Here is a ray of light.

 

Yeah it's great. Since I started this adventure I can't count how many people spontaneously helped or offer their help. A guy in Newport helped me a lot with some high specialized work and gave me parts for free. When I asked him why he was doing that he answered because people did the same for him in the past. Beside some real weirdos the sailing community it's still based on gifts and reciprocal support.

 

 

We are not going cruising (fucking around in Chesapeake and ICW) we are heading south, I really need to make money and go back to work in Florida.

 

I guess the 10nm range on the electric motor will get you out of the channel when something big is coming.

 

Since you're on a schedule, is there any possibility of getting an outboard or something so you can keep moving on a calm day, enter/exit harbors against the tide, etc.?

 

Yep Nathan, we considered the outboard with a long bracket as a way to have emergency propulsion and outboard stowage. Something like a 5 hp, enough to move the boat and good for the dinghy too. For the moment it's in the wish list, we still have so many project to complete before getting there but we keep it as an emergency solution.



#60 16_tons

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 04:02 AM

Hi all,

 

Thanks for the helpful comments here.  This is Kate the SO, and I must say I am not looking forward to the uncomfortable part, but getting to GA/FL will be that much sweeter. We will do our best to not make a mess of it. The mister won a long debate about having a full stove, not just a cook top, and I think he will pay me back for the added expense/crap installation job by baking bread when we are shivering.  His galley skills might save the day, the trip and the partnership!

 

kz



#61 rattus32

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 05:38 AM

Thanks for the hint. I did a quick search on the web but couldn't find any distributor. I wrote to the manufacterer. Where did you buy Enkadrain?

 

 

From building suppliers or foundation contractors. Just Google it. 

 

I just gave away about 500 ft2 to someone who would use it rather than dump it, as we moved and that was left over. I'll try to get some back to give away for shipping cost. Amazing stuff.



#62 Black Jack

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 09:54 PM

Here in San Francisco - When i do overnights on the hook - I use a old bronze heater that warms up with sterno . It lasts about 4 hours (if i let it burn all the way)  I can warm up my 30 ft boat cabin from low 50s to nearly 70 degrees in about 30 mins as well as I am able to heat up water for 3 hot water bottles.  I place them in the berth and in the sleeping bag and they are good for all night.
In the morning, i fire up the heater in the morning and make coffee over the hearer as i warm up the cabin again.  Sterno cans are less than 2.00 a can in bulk. 1 can for a weekend - 3 cans a week.
 
I would recommend even getting the large Ikea Tea Lamp that could hold a sterno canister. it will warm up the cabin in no time. a small tea lamp works well to remove the chill or dampness from the air. The key to all this stuff - do not sleep with most chemical reactions going off.

 

brodhult-lantern-for-tealight__0111708_P

 

Replace the coffee pot with this sterno/tea lamp in your forespar mini galley - leave the gas attached on bottom for weight.

 

43278792_360170_full.jpg



#63 snowflyer

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:09 PM

We installed a wood burning dickinson last year and now never use the Webasto forced air heater.  Waffled back and forth between wood and diesel heat and made the decision based on my perception of safety - a line of combustibles pouring into a flaming pot on a boat didn't give me the warm and fuzzies.  I wouldn't get the dickinson again as it's poorly made and doesn't burn wood for anything - only seems to burn compressed fire logs (recommended in the manual, but not mandated).  Although, on a boat that's not a terrible thing as they come in waterproof tubes, and last a good long while.  If I had to do it again would go with diesel fired stove.  Like others have said keeping things dry is key, and here in British Columbia, that's a non trivial task.  The Webasto cycles on and off and just never really drove out the wet like the stove does and we ended up with more of a Sauna inside.

Oh, and hot water bottles!

#64 boomer

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:10 AM

Looking forward to seeing some videos of her under sail.

 


 

Boomer,

 

I hope what your friend says about the Columbia 29 it's true, I can't wait to sail her! A friend of mine in Europe says that S&S never failed a boat. It's common opinion that Columbia did not build with high quality standards but the design should be flawless. I'll try to keep the blog posted as much as I can.

With the electric drive I will depend on the sail, so passage planning it's fundamental.

 

It's a sailingboat by the way, and sails should be her main of propulsion!



#65 psychosailing

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 03:05 AM

We have a Force 10 two burner stove wit oven, as Kate said, trying to bake as much as possible and use residuos heat.

 

We also think about one of those propane heather like Little Buddy from Mr Heater, to run in evening mornings before or just out of bed

 

http://www.gandermou...hu=343131313438

 

To place close to a vent that we have near the sliding hatch.



#66 TeamGladiator

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 06:28 AM

Umm, CO is Carbon Monoxide.  It won't blow up but it will replace oxygen and deny you the ability to breathe.  Low down is good in this case.  A propane detector is also good down low.  Both Propane and CO are heavier than air, i.e. they accumulate like invisible bilgewater...

30673371

Umm, someone didn't do so well in inorganic chemistry class...

"Air" is mostly Nitrogen (78%) with a bit of Oxygen (about 20%) and a bit of other stuff...

N2 = 14, CO = 14, O2 = 16

Therefore, no, CO isn't hevier than air, nor does it settle in the bilge like invisible water. CO detector should be HIGH like a smoke detector.

You got the propane part right though. Must have done better in organic chemistry.

#67 olaf hart

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 06:43 AM

Umm, CO is Carbon Monoxide.  It won't blow up but it will replace oxygen and deny you the ability to breathe.  Low down is good in this case.  A propane detector is also good down low.  Both Propane and CO are heavier than air, i.e. they accumulate like invisible bilgewater...

30673371

Umm, someone didn't do so well in inorganic chemistry class...

"Air" is mostly Nitrogen (78%) with a bit of Oxygen (about 20%) and a bit of other stuff...

N2 = 14, CO = 14, O2 = 16

Therefore, no, CO isn't hevier than air, nor does it settle in the bilge like invisible water. CO detector should be HIGH like a smoke detector.

You got the propane part right though. Must have done better in organic chemistry.

 

If we are getting pedantic, CO also doesn't replace Oxygen.

It bonds selectively with haemoglobin, and reduces its oxygen carrying capacity.



#68 Veeger

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 03:27 AM

Umm, CO is Carbon Monoxide.  It won't blow up but it will replace oxygen and deny you the ability to breathe.  Low down is good in this case.  A propane detector is also good down low.  Both Propane and CO are heavier than air, i.e. they accumulate like invisible bilgewater...

30673371

Umm, someone didn't do so well in inorganic chemistry class...

"Air" is mostly Nitrogen (78%) with a bit of Oxygen (about 20%) and a bit of other stuff...

N2 = 14, CO = 14, O2 = 16

Therefore, no, CO isn't hevier than air, nor does it settle in the bilge like invisible water. CO detector should be HIGH like a smoke detector.

You got the propane part right though. Must have done better in organic chemistry.

I didn't really like organic OR inorganic chemistry…..  but I did get the memo that propane vapors and CO vapors are bad shit!



#69 beezer

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 02:53 PM

HI,

 

Another Quick note.  For your honda generator (EU 1000?) be careful to keep rust out of the fuel.  I ran the Yamaha version of that generator when living in on the hook in the keys and the bolt that attached the cap started to drop big rust flakes into the fuel and clogged up the works.  After that I could never get the thing to run right.  If I had to do it again I would have smeared a nice dollop of vaseline on the part. 

 

I have no experience with electric engines, and I love the idea, but I would agree that even a 3.5 hp engine on a bracket as a kicker would not be the worst idea.  Not trying to dissuade you, but if somone has a cheap of 5 hp or enven a 3.5 long shaft on craigslist you might want to think on dropping the cash for safety sake.  Might need it only once but it might save your life.  Bolt on a swing down bracket on the stern.  Note that tying to tow the sailboat with a little dinghy and outboard in rough water does not work particularly well.  Stay safe hombre.   Avoid Hatteras if you can.    



#70 6924

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 04:18 PM

Get a chubby GF 



#71 Black Jack

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 05:11 PM

Get a chubby GF 

 

or a skinny GF with a big dog...

 

BV_Season3_15.jpg?mh=506&mw=900



#72 psychosailing

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 02:54 AM

HI,

 

Another Quick note.  For your honda generator (EU 1000?) be careful to keep rust out of the fuel.  I ran the Yamaha version of that generator when living in on the hook in the keys and the bolt that attached the cap started to drop big rust flakes into the fuel and clogged up the works.  After that I could never get the thing to run right.  If I had to do it again I would have smeared a nice dollop of vaseline on the part. 

 

I have no experience with electric engines, and I love the idea, but I would agree that even a 3.5 hp engine on a bracket as a kicker would not be the worst idea.  Not trying to dissuade you, but if somone has a cheap of 5 hp or enven a 3.5 long shaft on craigslist you might want to think on dropping the cash for safety sake.  Might need it only once but it might save your life.  Bolt on a swing down bracket on the stern.  Note that tying to tow the sailboat with a little dinghy and outboard in rough water does not work particularly well.  Stay safe hombre.   Avoid Hatteras if you can.    

Beezer,

thanks for the note on the generator. Mine it's a Honda 2000 (need at least 15 amps for battery charger peaks). I dealt with a lot of generator when I was working in San Blas Islands, Panama, and the marine environment it's the worst ever. I will keep it covered in a canvas bag inside my transom locker. Lanolin works better than vasoline against corrosion. I definetely ned to give maximum care to the generator, they are not made to stand the marine environment.

 

Yes the OB will be added to the system. I am looking for a good offer out there.

 

Get a chubby GF 

 

or a skinny GF with a big dog...

 

BV_Season3_15.jpg?mh=506&mw=900

 

Ha ha, I have a skinny GF but I am going to feed her homemade pizza and bread to increase our chances.



#73 Mark Morwood

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 07:29 AM

thanks for the note on the generator. Mine it's a Honda 2000 (need at least 15 amps for battery charger peaks). I dealt with a lot of generator when I was working in San Blas Islands, Panama, and the marine environment it's the worst ever. I will keep it covered in a canvas bag inside my transom locker. Lanolin works better than vasoline against corrosion. I definetely ned to give maximum care to the generator, they are not made to stand the marine environment.

 

If you're going to be using the Honda generator a lot, which I suspect you are, it's a pretty easy mod on the Honda generators to set them up to connect direct to a dinghy fuel tank, rather than constantly filling the built in fuel tank. I have a Honda 1000EU which we use for battery charging when our solar panels can't keep up. I just t'eed in to the fuel line where it exits from the tank and put a OB connector on a short hose sticking out through the lid (a Honda engine end connector in my case as I use the same tank for my Honda OB). It does require disassembling the generator case, but it was not hard. Just be careful not to snap off any of the plastic clips that hold the case together. :-( To use the external tank, connect the fuel line and keep the relief valve closed on the built in tank lid and it will feed from the line rather than the tank. Other's have done the mod differently by connecting a fuel line to the relief valve on the tank lid. You can find pictures online.

 

Good luck with the trip south.

 

Mark.



#74 psychosailing

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 02:03 AM

thanks for the note on the generator. Mine it's a Honda 2000 (need at least 15 amps for battery charger peaks). I dealt with a lot of generator when I was working in San Blas Islands, Panama, and the marine environment it's the worst ever. I will keep it covered in a canvas bag inside my transom locker. Lanolin works better than vasoline against corrosion. I definetely ned to give maximum care to the generator, they are not made to stand the marine environment.

 

If you're going to be using the Honda generator a lot, which I suspect you are, it's a pretty easy mod on the Honda generators to set them up to connect direct to a dinghy fuel tank, rather than constantly filling the built in fuel tank. I have a Honda 1000EU which we use for battery charging when our solar panels can't keep up. I just t'eed in to the fuel line where it exits from the tank and put a OB connector on a short hose sticking out through the lid (a Honda engine end connector in my case as I use the same tank for my Honda OB). It does require disassembling the generator case, but it was not hard. Just be careful not to snap off any of the plastic clips that hold the case together. :-( To use the external tank, connect the fuel line and keep the relief valve closed on the built in tank lid and it will feed from the line rather than the tank. Other's have done the mod differently by connecting a fuel line to the relief valve on the tank lid. You can find pictures online.

 

Good luck with the trip south.

 

Mark.

 

Thanks for the hint Mark,

 

I wish not to use the generator too much. With 200w solar panels for the 12v banks and very low draw from my electric system I am hoping to keep up without running the generator too often. If I need to motor more for emergency only I will have to use the generator to recharge the 48v bank and in this case the OB tank trick would come handy.

 

Fabio



#75 bpw

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 03:00 AM

Probably the greatest thing you can do for safety is try to completely forget that you have the generator on board.  Sailing without (or limited) motor requires a rather different mindset and approach than sailing with. 

 

On the other hand, 10 mile range on the electric motor is a ton, plenty to bump you across a channel or out of a ships way.  Remember that even though ships seem huge they are only a few hundred feet wide.  Doesn't take much to get to one side or the other.

 

My favorite piece of engine-less sailing gear is my Standard Horizon VHF radio with built in AIS receiver.  Nothing eases the mind like being able to call a ship by name and double check that they do actually see you.

 

Getting an outboard might make the trip faster, doubt it will make it much safer.  Ground tackle would be a better investment.

 

I don't feel sailing without a motor is particularly high risk.  Slightly higher risk perhaps, but also a much greater reward.



#76 psychosailing

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 02:21 AM

Probably the greatest thing you can do for safety is try to completely forget that you have the generator on board.  Sailing without (or limited) motor requires a rather different mindset and approach than sailing with. 

 

On the other hand, 10 mile range on the electric motor is a ton, plenty to bump you across a channel or out of a ships way.  Remember that even though ships seem huge they are only a few hundred feet wide.  Doesn't take much to get to one side or the other.

 

My favorite piece of engine-less sailing gear is my Standard Horizon VHF radio with built in AIS receiver.  Nothing eases the mind like being able to call a ship by name and double check that they do actually see you.

 

Getting an outboard might make the trip faster, doubt it will make it much safer.  Ground tackle would be a better investment.

 

I don't feel sailing without a motor is particularly high risk.  Slightly higher risk perhaps, but also a much greater reward.

 

Yep, I totally agree, there is not much more safety into having a greater range.

 

The benefits of an internal combustion engine that I am gonna miss are electric power production and heat (when cold like now). Sailingboats are terrible powerboats and there is nothing less efficient than a sailboat who tries to rev the engine up.



#77 bpw

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 02:23 PM

We are running our boat on only 50 watts of solar power. If you get your lighting switched over to LED I bet you won't have much trouble with power.

Only time we ever ran out of electricity was winter in Tierra Del Fuego, even when it was clear the sun never made it above the mountains.

A little Tiny Tot wood/coal stove only costs a few hundred bucks if you do decide to install some permanent heating.

#78 Ajax

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 03:45 PM

LOL...funny, psycho.

 

Can you post some photos of your electric propulsion? I'm very curious.

Ha ha, I have a skinny GF but I am going to feed her homemade pizza and bread to increase our chances.



#79 Wess

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 04:42 PM

Psycho - You still up north?  Come on; enough with the Red Sox and Bruins games.  You stay much longer you are going to see ice and not just at the hockey game.  Wish you the best but its getting late for an outside passage south in a small boat w 2 people.  Less posting, more southing, LOL.  I know you know this but there ain't no place to pull over 20 miles out.  Just wind, waves and freezing rain that does not care about the lee shore or that you are tired and cold with no juice and a blown out main.  Be safe dude and be sure the boat and crew are up to the serious sailing challenge you are taking on late in the season.  Tell me you are thinking about reasonable coastal hops with bail-outs, planned around conservative well researched weather windows.  Wess



#80 boomer

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 06:09 PM

Can you post some photos of your electric propulsion? I'm very curious.

 
There's a picture on his website, and the video above shows the installation.

 

http://www.electricy...cts/quietorque/



#81 psychosailing

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:15 AM

We are running our boat on only 50 watts of solar power. If you get your lighting switched over to LED I bet you won't have much trouble with power.

Only time we ever ran out of electricity was winter in Tierra Del Fuego, even when it was clear the sun never made it above the mountains.

A little Tiny Tot wood/coal stove only costs a few hundred bucks if you do decide to install some permanent heating.

 

That sounds good. We have two 12v 130ah batteries. I got rollable solar panels for free that I am installing on deck, between the staysail and the cabin. All the light are LED, including nav lights as I had to start the electric system from scratch.

We are not for permanent heating yet, who knows maybe when we are going around Tierra del Fuego! You are doing an amazing trip I am so jealous!

 

 

LOL...funny, psycho.

 

Can you post some photos of your electric propulsion? I'm very curious.

Ha ha, I have a skinny GF but I am going to feed her homemade pizza and bread to increase our chances.

 

here is a post on my blog about electric engine http://lapossibilita...electric-heart/

today we launched the boat and I did my first motoring. 1 mile across the bay at 3kts drawing between 15 and 20 amps per hour. Easy but flawless and I didn't have to recharge the batteries! More tests to come soon and more writing about it.

 

tranq.jpg

 

As you can see we are a bittle low due to battery's weight.

 

 

Psycho - You still up north?  Come on; enough with the Red Sox and Bruins games.  You stay much longer you are going to see ice and not just at the hockey game.  Wish you the best but its getting late for an outside passage south in a small boat w 2 people.  Less posting, more southing, LOL.  I know you know this but there ain't no place to pull over 20 miles out.  Just wind, waves and freezing rain that does not care about the lee shore or that you are tired and cold with no juice and a blown out main.  Be safe dude and be sure the boat and crew are up to the serious sailing challenge you are taking on late in the season.  Tell me you are thinking about reasonable coastal hops with bail-outs, planned around conservative well researched weather windows.  Wess

 

Wess, I appreciate your interest in our situation and your concern. We are now launched and it will take two more weeks to run the necessary tests and set up the boat for serious sailing. It is cold, we take in count, we have a third crew helping on the longest passage (Block Island to Cape May), and we are going to use Marinas along the coast and protected bays. It won't be holiday but we are going to appreciate the warm weather once we get there.



#82 Wess

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 12:49 AM

Be safe.  I gather you know what you are up against. 



#83 psychosailing

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 01:06 AM

Be safe.  I gather you know what you are up against. 

 

Freezing cold, adverse weather and long dark hours? Yes I'd prefer be sailing under 15 degrees north but that's what we have for now. Some days will be decent though, among many crappy ones.

 

Besides at anchor/dock advices. Anyone with best practices when underway in cold weather? Tricks, experiences, advices for sailing in cold weather?



#84 Ishmael

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 01:38 AM

Be safe.  I gather you know what you are up against. 

 

Freezing cold, adverse weather and long dark hours? Yes I'd prefer be sailing under 15 degrees north but that's what we have for now. Some days will be decent though, among many crappy ones.

 

Besides at anchor/dock advices. Anyone with best practices when underway in cold weather? Tricks, experiences, advices for sailing in cold weather?

 

Well, if you can get your hands on a couple of Mustang Cruiser Suits you'd be way ahead. We used to sail all winter wearing those.

 

anne%20in%20cruiser%20suit.jpg

 

As you can see, we shoveled most of the snow off.

Keeping warm is the key. Once you're cold you have a hard time catching up. Good thermals, good wind layer, excellent socks at a minimum.



#85 Wess

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 03:02 PM

Be safe.  I gather you know what you are up against. 

 

Freezing cold, adverse weather and long dark hours? Yes I'd prefer be sailing under 15 degrees north but that's what we have for now. Some days will be decent though, among many crappy ones.

 

Besides at anchor/dock advices. Anyone with best practices when underway in cold weather? Tricks, experiences, advices for sailing in cold weather?

Psycho -

 

You are starting to scare me.  Hope I don't sound like mother hen but I am surprised this is the last question coming up in the thread.  To me its the first and foremost concern for this planned small boat passage south at this time of year.

 

I gather you are doing coastal hops which means you will not have the option of dropping the hook and stopping at any time.  Its kinda the best and worst, right?  Not inshore so you can't stop, but boat, crew and time of year not such that you can do extended offshore such that you get into rhyhm.

 

1.) Conservative decisions on weather windows for any overnight passage.

2.) A dry sheltered place to stand watch.

3.) A drop-dead well tested and proven auto-pilot that can handle the boat easily in any condition you will face on any passage window you would say yes to.

4.) All sail controls and reefing led to cockpit (basically an ability to run the boat trim, helm, etc...) from safe sheltered position.  The whole point of 1-4 is to stay warm and dry.

5.) Absolute complete 100% confidence that either POB can do any and all tasks necessary to run the vessel by themselves in any/all conditions.  So POB #2 can try to warm up, sleep, cook etc....

6.) Layers of thermal gear and fleece with breathable gear waterproof outerwear.  If it does not breathe you will sweat; once you sweat you will get cold.  Do not do this with cheap gear.  Lots of shops up there sell cheap gear that works great for cold for offshore commercial fishing boats.  Its not good for sailors on passage.  The two situations/needs are very different.

7.) Gloves.  Have many of different types.  Neoprene wetsuit gloves (many pairs that can be dried) for handling wet line.  Ski gloves for standing sheltered watch.

8.) Good hats and boots.  You must keep your head, hands and feet warm and dry.

9.) A real good wet locker.  Keep the wet gear from getting the boat wet.

10.) No leaks.  Keep the interior dry.

11.) A real good sleeping bag rated for winter mountaineering use.  Keep it dry at all costs.

12.) Hot food and sleep are really important to staying warm.  No booze.  Backpacking stove and backpacking food that you want to eat and can cook in any conditions.  I am not thinking about baking bread and pizza on a Fall Chesapeake cruise.  I am thinking basic survival stuff here.

13.) Socks and towels.  Never can have enough.

 

Call me conservative but I have been there and done that... that time of year a few times.  I have the T-shirt but don't want it!!  Hope for the best but plan for the worst but I gotta tell you this time of year this can be a real hate mission on a boat and crew not fully prepared for it.

 



#86 Hobie Dog

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 07:37 PM

AFA gloves check out the lined, breathable ones by Atlas. How they are breathable yet completely waterproof I am not sure but from the few times I have worn them they work great. Granted it has not been that cold but dingy racing for hours and my hands stayed completely dry and warm. Might want to get check them out and they are about $30.

 

And has been said you better have good offshore boots and they are expensive. The cheap rubber ones are not going to cut it.

 

Good luck and keep us posted!



#87 nathan_bossett

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 09:56 PM

6.) Layers of thermal gear and fleece with breathable gear waterproof outerwear.  If it does not breathe you will sweat; once you sweat you will get cold.  Do not do this with cheap gear.  Lots of shops up there sell cheap gear that works great for cold for offshore commercial fishing boats.  Its not good for sailors on passage.  The two situations/needs are very different.

7.) Gloves.  Have many of different types.  Neoprene wetsuit gloves (many pairs that can be dried) for handling wet line.  Ski gloves for standing sheltered watch.

8.) Good hats and boots.  You must keep your head, hands and feet warm and dry.

 

 

Maybe a bit late on the foulies:

http://lapossibilita...l-weather-gear/

 

I did my first couple of seasons of ocean racing with dinghy boots (nice ones, Aigle, but still rubber) and foulies that didn't breathe.

 

Finally getting a set of good stuff (in my case, Musto and DuBarry) led to me being very pleasantly surprised the first cold, wet night after that.

 

Fabio, if budget prohibits splurging on breathable foulies at least make sure you have some good synthetics as underlayers.



#88 redviking

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 12:20 PM

I found electric motorcycle jackets to be most effective. A couple of jackets and a couple of 25' cords and you are good to go. When underway, the off watch is warm already and doesn't waste an hour warming up the berth. The key here is keeping the core warm, tricks the body into letting blood flow to the extremities. Real wooden shoes are my personal choice. Troentorp.... And my diesel heater burns one gallon in 24 hours. Got caught in a cold snap in Charleston one year. 22 outside but we kept the cabin at 70 and amused ourselves by being naked.

#89 psychosailing

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:51 AM

Ok so today was very cold, we had a taste and we are not happy.

 

We are happy that the boat sails so good, the new sails are amazing and the electric engine has being dependable so far. I have 10 days of enhancements and tests before leaving.

 

hot+water+bottles1.JPG

 

I think this will be our main source of heat, maybe a bit low tech...

 

My GF is also suggesting heating stone (we do have an oven) to use radiation heat...



#90 Ishmael

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 04:16 AM

We used to use a propane parabolic reflector heater (made in Brazil, of all places) stood in the companionway and firing under blankets sheltering the crew in the cockpit. It made a world of difference. I haven't seen them around for a while, but if you can find one, they work very well.

Usual disclaimers about them using your oxygen, but they do put heat where you need it instead of just warming the acre around your boat.



#91 rantifarian

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Posted 04 November 2013 - 05:54 AM

If you can get hold of some merino wool under layers they work bloody well, still feel warmish when wet, and don't end up smelling, even if you wear them for a week or two straight. Poly thermals keep you warm, but pick up a serious stench if you have been wearing them for a few days. You won't be doing any washing during the trip, it might make a big difference to your comfort



#92 psychosailing

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 02:05 AM

We used to use a propane parabolic reflector heater (made in Brazil, of all places) stood in the companionway and firing under blankets sheltering the crew in the cockpit. It made a world of difference. I haven't seen them around for a while, but if you can find one, they work very well.

Usual disclaimers about them using your oxygen, but they do put heat where you need it instead of just warming the acre around your boat.

 

Are you talking about something like this?

 

http://www.truevalue...pla={placement}



#93 Ishmael

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 02:54 AM

We used to use a propane parabolic reflector heater (made in Brazil, of all places) stood in the companionway and firing under blankets sheltering the crew in the cockpit. It made a world of difference. I haven't seen them around for a while, but if you can find one, they work very well.

Usual disclaimers about them using your oxygen, but they do put heat where you need it instead of just warming the acre around your boat.

 

Are you talking about something like this?

 

http://www.truevalue...pla={placement}

 

That's pretty close, but the ones (note the plural) I had were $15 and fit on top of a 1-lb can. That looks way more better.



#94 psychosailing

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 03:47 AM

I am installing my propane tank on the stern pulpit, it may be a good thing to keep handy.

 

I was watching a documentary on how russians overcome cold. I wish I had russian blood for this trip...

 



#95 beezer

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:31 AM

Dude not to be a naysayer but get south before the next low or ask a friend or family for a plane ticket. If you do go please strap those batteries down real tight. You could buy a second boat comparable in florida for about 5 k or less. Hell buy the exact same boat, bring your sails with you on the plane and enjoy diving for lobster in key west instead of freezing your nuts off. Plenty of adventures out there in the right season. It ain't just you its the girlfriend who trusts you. Please keep posting.

#96 Ishmael

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:32 AM

I am installing my propane tank on the stern pulpit, it may be a good thing to keep handy.

 

I was watching a documentary on how russians overcome cold. I wish I had russian blood for this trip...

 

 

I'm sure you could buy a couple of gallons online.



#97 Wess

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:08 PM

Dude not to be a naysayer but get south before the next low or ask a friend or family for a plane ticket. If you do go please strap those batteries down real tight. You could buy a second boat comparable in florida for about 5 k or less. Hell buy the exact same boat, bring your sails with you on the plane and enjoy diving for lobster in key west instead of freezing your nuts off. Plenty of adventures out there in the right season. It ain't just you its the girlfriend who trusts you. Please keep posting.

Plus 1.  Every time I see another post indicating they have not left or made any southing I cringe.

 

Hate to be the guy saying don't do it - my wife (then girlfriend) and I heard it enough back in the day when we tossed the lines - but this is starting to sound seriously suspect.

 

A boat and systems that are just off a major rebuild/install project and not offshore tested.

Condition of standing and running rigging, furling gear and sails unknown, untested offshore.  Ability to quickly and easily reef, from cockpit, unknown.

Self stearing gear, unknown.

Condition of canvas... is there a dry, safe secure place to stand watch out of weather, and manage helm and sails, unknown.

A second mate that has limited (any?) experience with this type of voyage.

Foul weather gear that is marginal to the task.

Water temps that I would guess are already in low 50s and likely approaching 40s by the time they get underway.

Air temps highs not getting out of 50s with lows in 40s and 30s.

Here is the forecast for the NJ coast - south of where they are:  http://forecast.weat...z084&syn=anz089

 

Rarely seeing breeze under 25 and that is pretty typical unless its going to be on the nose.  Rain tomorrow.  Oh how I remember the endless cold driving rain the last time I did this.

 

Its not the cold.  Its not easy but the cold alone can be managed.  Its the combination of the cold and the wet, the ice on the decks, the rain, spray, with low after low coming off the coast. With a good crew that knows what this trip is this time of year, with good foul weather gear, in a proven bulletproof boat, with proven systems and a safe, dry, secure watch station from where the boat can be run (maybe the most critical element of the trip, IMHO), this can be a fun bonding experience.  I have enjoyed it.  But all it takes is one chink in the armor and this can become life changing. 

 

Oh and have proven MOB gear that one (weakest) person can work and has worked.  At the dock, have a ladder rigged, always.  With docks and decks covered with ice and constant on/off the boat, its easy to have a MOB at the dock.  Never really considered this until it happened to a friend, in icy waters.  

 

I wish these folks the best; but would so like to hear that they either decided to wait till spring, or they got underway and are south of Hatteras.

 

Good gosh man, its November 6th.  No more Russian documentaries.  This is seriuous shit; get moving.



#98 blackjenner

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 09:01 PM

If you have one of these, clean out the carb and watch it keep your boat at a toasty 75 degrees in 40 degree weather, while burning only less than.5 gal an hour.

 

I worked on the Dickensen diesel heater over the weekend.  All I had to do was disassemble the "carb" for the heater, clean it and put it back together.  After that, it ran for hours, on a low setting, bringing the cabin up to a toasty 75 degrees.  
 
It's nice to have our fireplace back again.
 


#99 Ajax

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 12:47 PM

I haven't heard anything... Wish I knew if they're ok.



#100 Wess

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 01:25 PM

Well they splashed a week ago so hopefully they are either ready or on way.  Wait much longer and they run a risk of not being able to go.

 

Bit cold and a gale warning south, but decent run of N and W breeze next few days for them to get out of Dodge.  Heck they could be in CM and ride the S up the Del, then the next front down the Ches.  I know he wants to go outside but wondering if the first leg (BI to CM) puts them off that plan.  Anyway realistic shot to be in Norfolk next week and then hopefully do inside round Hatteras.  Still not easy but feel better about their chances after that.  Its all doable but every day delayed its getting tougher. 







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