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anybody need a jeep? one of the better CL ads ...


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#1 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:22 PM

This is not my ad I just found it amusing .....

 

 

http://enid.craigsli...0944.html</div>

 

 

 

text from ad:

======================================================================

1997 Jeep Cherokee  (XJ)
220K Miles
4.0 L in-line 6
4WD
AUTOMATIC Transmission
Bright Red
Straight Stock
Crank Windows, no cruise, no tilt, no delay wiper, no nonsense
POWER MIRRORS!  Woo Hoo!

$1750

Here's the deal, kids:
This is a Jeep Cherokee.  This is not a luxury SUV, or a maintenance-free disposable import.  It has solid front axles, wind noise, and character.
It's a Jeep.  It rides like a Jeep.  It drives like a Jeep.  All of these are GOOD things.
It is not new, it is not pristine, it is used.  This will be apparent in the pictures.


If you do not own a toolbox, have never changed your own oil, and are scared of firearms: THIS VEHICLE IS NOT FOR YOU.
If you have been posting on facebook all about how excited you are for pumpkin latte season: THIS VEHICLE IS NOT FOR YOU.
If you get offended easy and often, whine to your co-workers, and bitch a lot: THIS VEHICLE IS NOT FOR YOU.
If you feel you are owed anything in the world & have a bullshit job where you fail to produce: THIS VEHICLE IS NOT FOR YOU.
If you own a bieber album, white oakleys, affliction t-shirts, or those candy-assed stitched-pocket jeans: THIS VEHICLE IS NOT FOR YOU.
If you consider the 2nd Amendment an anachronistic relic and have never owned a firearm: THIS VEHICLE IS NOT FOR YOU.


If, however, you have BALLS OF STEEL and consider adverse weather an excuse to do stupid shit: THIS IS YOUR JEEP.
Do you laugh at danger, and tempt fate? 
Have you ever uttered the words, "Hold my beer and watch this ..."?
While bored at work do you pick targets at random and think, "I could hit that from here with the .22 ..."?
Have any of your friends quit hanging out because you were too much fun?
Do you have the number of a friend with cash memorized for bail?
When you pass an abandoned flatbed farm truck along a fenceline do you consider taking on another project?
Is your ol' lady really sick of the random piles of parts, greasy footprints, and empty beer bottles in the garage?
    -could you not care less?
Do you have Jalopnik saved on your laptop AND smartphone?
Do you own a service manual for every vehicle you ever owned?
Do you still miss your first ride?
Can you carry on a two hour conversation discussing tools, scars, and hi-lift jacks?
Remember when tool companies had the balls to put half-naked beauty queens on their calendars?
Do you consider the Prius an abominable affront to the Gods of displacement, torque, and All Mighty Internal Combustion?


If you answered in the affirmative to the preceding: THIS IS YOUR JEEP.

DETAILS:
-I am the second owner.  First owner barely got it dirty and engaged the front axles once.
-I have remedied this excessive caretaking with muddy roads and a pile of fun.
-The motor uses a little oil.  How much?  I don't know, I'm not collecting statistical analysis points. 
    I check the oil, I fill the oil, I drive.  Not enough to bother me. 
-It leaks a little oil.  How much?  Not enough for me to care.  It has 220,000 miles, Poindexter!
    If you have a vehicle with 220K NOT leaking or burning oil, it's empty!
-Rear bumper has a big-ass crease in it.  I dented it backing into a concrete pole.  Sober.
    We drove away giggling, for the record.  Haven't fixed it.
-Driver's side door was caught by the wind, whipped forward, got into the LF quarter panel.
-Radiator has a small leak.  Pinhole.  I can replace the radiator or you can.  Really doesn't matter
    A new radiator and hoses will run $145.  If you don't want to replace them I will. 
    Add $250 to the price of vehicle.  This includes radiator, hoses, and labor (beer).  A freaking bargain.
-The badass little 4.0L bullet-proof in-line six starts and runs like the proverbial champ.
-Tranny and 4WD operate perfectly
-Tires will need replaced in a couple thousand miles.  I haven't upgraded because I had plans:
    Had planned a small lift, upgrade to 17" Wrangler wheels, and more aggressive tires.
    Life got in the way - it ain't happening. 
-Zombie stickers on the right rear window stay.  My daughter's idea, take it up with her.
-Flogging Molly sticker stays as well.  They kick ass, so there. 

QUESTIONS:
-Why are you selling?
    I can't justify owning it anymore.  Motorsickles, kiddos, work, travel, and beer have consumed my time and money.
    Someone else needs to appreciate the Jeep for what it is:  awesome mechanical artistry.

-What's wrong with it?
    Radiator.  Small oil leaks.  Driver's side door cosmetic issues. 
    And it's pissed it has been neglected and parked.  It needs rescued.

-Does the 4WD work?
    Hell yes.  Like a Dickensian Orphan. 

-Will you sell me the [engine / tranny / rear door / axle / etc.]?
    No.  I'm not in the salvage business.  Buy the Jeep.  Love the Jeep. Give the Jeep a home.

-Will you take [insert ridiculously stupid low number here]?
    No.  If I wanted [ridiculously low number] I would have asked [ridiculously low number]
    Want a cheap car?  Get your kid that lowered tuner piece of shit honda project down the road. 
    I think I'm plenty cheap for this bad mofo.

-Why is it still stock?
    Because I bought it for a daily driver with the intention of turning it into a project.
    I haven't had the time to do so.  So I am selling it.

-Can I put a 6" lift and giant tires on it?
    I don't give a shit.  But be sure to use quality components and for God's sake - get it aligned after a lift!

-Would this make a good car for my daughter?
    Hell.  Yes.  Not only a good car, a learning experience.  Introduction to vehicular maintenance.
    Additionally, there isn't really enough room in the back for that little bastard she's dating to try anything.

-Can you deliver?
    Within reason.  I'd drive it a hundred miles or so.  But really, you should come get it.  Look it over.  Have a beer.  Etc.

-Will you take a check / cashier's check / Western Union Transfer / Nigerian Promissory Note?
    Would you take a ball pein hammer to the forehead?
    No.  I'll take Cash.  Period.  Bring cash or don't show.

-Will you ship to -?
    No.  See above.

-No, really, all I have is [lowball dollar amount]?
    That's great, I don't give a shit.  Unicef ain't running this deal, and until they do I want $1750. 
    Why?  Because I don't HAVE to sell this little beauty.  Truth be known, I'd rather keep it.
    But if it's going to a good home - I will sell.  Unless you're an asshole - then no sale.

-Why are you such a dick?
    Everything is relative; you should see my friends.

Any other questions, feel free to reply to this email and ask.

==================================================================  



#2 bosun

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:49 PM

Brilliant!  Don't want the truck but wouldn't mind having a beer with the guy.



#3 Slick470

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:52 PM

post is now flagged for removal. Either he sold it, or some pc whiner got offended. I hope he sold it.



#4 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:03 PM

post is now flagged for removal. Either he sold it, or some pc whiner got offended. I hope he sold it.

yeah.. that's why I cut and pasted the text LOL



#5 familysailor

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 03:33 PM

Note the trip reset button... strictly custom.

 

01616_2DZFvClf2zE_600x450.jpg



#6 Windward

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 04:28 PM

That's hilarious... 



#7 Gong Show

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 04:34 PM

Post is back up again.

Nothing wrong with that ad.

Love the trip reset.



#8 mikewof

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:20 PM

$2k for a 200,000 mile 97 Cherokee that burns oil and probably needs a rebuild?

Good thing the ad is so awesome, because the deal isn't.

Flogging Molly does kick ass btw.

#9 egon

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:57 PM

All 4.0L's leak or burn oil.  200K is just getting broken in.  At 125K my main bearings still had the machining marks visible.

 

XJs just keep going.

 

--Matt

$2k for a 200,000 mile 97 Cherokee that burns oil and probably needs a rebuild?

Good thing the ad is so awesome, because the deal isn't.

Flogging Molly does kick ass btw.



#10 mikewof

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 07:09 PM


All 4.0L's leak or burn oil.  200K is just getting broken in.  At 125K my main bearings still had the machining marks visible.
 
XJs just keep going.
 
--Matt

They're good vehicles for sure, a friend's straight 6 ran forever.

They're just really easy to find, at least around here. $2k will buy a 120k Cherokee that still has another few years until the rebuild. Of course, if it was a CJ, YJ or TJ it would go for twice that even with no engine. But for some reason the Cherokees don't have nearly the value. From what I've seen they're as capable as the Wranglers, but they look like an SUV.

I'm starting to look for an older Wrangler for our teenage daughter. It will not be painted pink however, regardless how much she begs. If the ballerina wants a Barbie Jeep then she's going to have to get greasy helping to fix an old one.

And meanwhile, I'm a total hypocrite, my old truck has a bum water pump and I'm going to have the pro do the work because I have an irrational fear of screwing up timing belts.

#11 Windward

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 08:28 PM

Timing belt driving the water pump?

 

I say go for it, and the two of you will have a great time.

 

Did you ever read Jim Lee's blog about restoring an old large army truck with his kids?  They took a break from building Darts and from the looks of it had a blast in the rebuild.



#12 mikewof

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:45 PM

Timing belt driving the water pump?

Sure, because what deranged engineer doesn't want the most sensitive, easily fucked part of the entire vehicle, the part that can kill the valves on the interference engine with one missed tooth, attached to a $40 water pump?
 

I say go for it, and the two of you will have a great time.
 

One of us will have a great time. Her idea of a great time isn't fixing a Wrangler, but I think it's going to be a lot of fun for me to force her to get dirty.

Wranglers are interesting ... how many ten and twenty year old vehicles will a typical teenage girl want to drive other then a Wrangler?

I tried something funny with the younger daughter, showed her photos of some insanely high end vintage vehicles without telling her how expensive they really are. I told her that since I don't have much budget for her vehicle that I have to get her an older one.

1936 Auburn Boattail Speedster? "Eww, gross, it looks like one of those antique cars."

1955 Studebaker President? "Yuck."

1959 Corvette? "Gross!"

1972 Lamborghini Jarama? "Dad! I'm not going to drive any of those nasty cheap cars!"

1952 Chevy Pickup? "I guess that one is okay."

1972 Jeep CJ5? " Can I paint it pink?"

#13 On the Hard

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:21 PM

Wish I'd bought an old Wrangler. Instead I bought a new '08 Grand Cherokee. New model, etc. A few weeks ago the water pump blew out and because the coolant leaked out, the engine never showed overheating and seized. Totally wrecked the engine. now seeing how Chrysler interprets their "Lifetime Powertrain Warranty.  Left my daughter stranded by the side of the road for two hours...at night....on the interstate. Was planning on a Wrangler for my next car. now...maybe not so much... 



#14 Bulbhunter

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:30 PM

Wish I'd bought an old Wrangler. Instead I bought a new '08 Grand Cherokee. New model, etc. A few weeks ago the water pump blew out and because the coolant leaked out, the engine never showed overheating and seized. Totally wrecked the engine. now seeing how Chrysler interprets their "Lifetime Powertrain Warranty.  Left my daughter stranded by the side of the road for two hours...at night....on the interstate. Was planning on a Wrangler for my next car. now...maybe not so much... 

Wrangler is ranked worst of the worst on just about every ranking today. Wouldn't touch that with a 50ft pole. Heck even a tired old Tacoma would be an improvement over a new Wrangler. Cousin flipped her newish GC and nearly killed herself on a 40mph road not paying attention clipped a curb. No idea why people put loved one's in those things? She's in a 2010 Subaru Legacy now and wishes she had been in the subaru all along.



#15 Nacradriver

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:57 PM

Brilliant!  Don't want the truck but wouldn't mind having a beer with the guy.

Me too.... 



#16 Windward

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:28 PM

Wish I'd bought an old Wrangler. Instead I bought a new '08 Grand Cherokee. New model, etc. A few weeks ago the water pump blew out and because the coolant leaked out, the engine never showed overheating and seized. Totally wrecked the engine. now seeing how Chrysler interprets their "Lifetime Powertrain Warranty.  Left my daughter stranded by the side of the road for two hours...at night....on the interstate. Was planning on a Wrangler for my next car. now...maybe not so much... 

Wrangler is ranked worst of the worst on just about every ranking today. Wouldn't touch that with a 50ft pole. Heck even a tired old Tacoma would be an improvement over a new Wrangler. Cousin flipped her newish GC and nearly killed herself on a 40mph road not paying attention clipped a curb. No idea why people put loved one's in those things? She's in a 2010 Subaru Legacy now and wishes she had been in the subaru all along.

Pfttt...  Smiles per gallon Bulbhunter!  You should take a 4 door out for a test ride before slinging poo. 



#17 Bulbhunter

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:34 PM

 

Wish I'd bought an old Wrangler. Instead I bought a new '08 Grand Cherokee. New model, etc. A few weeks ago the water pump blew out and because the coolant leaked out, the engine never showed overheating and seized. Totally wrecked the engine. now seeing how Chrysler interprets their "Lifetime Powertrain Warranty.  Left my daughter stranded by the side of the road for two hours...at night....on the interstate. Was planning on a Wrangler for my next car. now...maybe not so much... 

Wrangler is ranked worst of the worst on just about every ranking today. Wouldn't touch that with a 50ft pole. Heck even a tired old Tacoma would be an improvement over a new Wrangler. Cousin flipped her newish GC and nearly killed herself on a 40mph road not paying attention clipped a curb. No idea why people put loved one's in those things? She's in a 2010 Subaru Legacy now and wishes she had been in the subaru all along.

Pfttt...  Smiles per gallon Bulbhunter!  You should take a 4 door out for a test ride before slinging poo. 

Couple of close friends have had them did a few road trips in them no thanks you want a V8 comfy SUV get the Lazy boy on 4 wheels Yukon built far better!

 

You want an off road machine get a 4runner, Landcruiser or an actual Jeep LOL



#18 Windward

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:43 PM

Taking the top and doors off any of those is silly, and I would get laughed at when picking up kids at elementary school.  Imagine the shame!



#19 Bulbhunter

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:54 PM

Taking the top and doors off any of those is silly, and I would get laughed at when picking up kids at elementary school.  Imagine the shame!

Around here the current HS parents are buying those wranglers for their HS kids probably because they are cheap and the spoiled kid is asking for one. Just waiting for one of the HS kids to dump it on our 35mph streets LOL. Had a HS kid wrap his parents Camry around a maple tree in the center divider right in front of the church this spring. Lives right up the street from me. The word from those who watched him do it he blew the stop sign at the corner didn't make the 90 right turn kept on it hard clipped the curb spun the car 180 and wrapped it around the tree all on a 35mph street with the middle school less than 200ft away.

 

He's back driving another car which I noticed seems to have collected some sizable dents just recently. I bet he wrecks that one before the end of the year.



#20 Windward

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 12:03 AM

True...  I would not advocate for handing the keys to a 2 door Wrangler to a highschool kid.  Albeit the lack of real rear seating has its appeal.

 

If I'm getting a car for my daughter, It will likely be a small pickup with a manual that I can use for dump runs.

 

Where the heck do you live regarding pricing?  On this planet Wranglers are so stupidly overpriced it's ridiculous.  I was looking at a 2012 that had 15k miles, and was a whopping 2k under a new 2013.  Comparable vehicles.

 

Where is Woody to bag on Jeeps?  Hellooo?

 

Kid in your hood needs remedial driving lessons, and heaven forbid he get a motorcycle.



#21 Bulbhunter

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 05:41 PM

True...  I would not advocate for handing the keys to a 2 door Wrangler to a highschool kid.  Albeit the lack of real rear seating has its appeal.

 

If I'm getting a car for my daughter, It will likely be a small pickup with a manual that I can use for dump runs.

 

Where the heck do you live regarding pricing?  On this planet Wranglers are so stupidly overpriced it's ridiculous.  I was looking at a 2012 that had 15k miles, and was a whopping 2k under a new 2013.  Comparable vehicles.

 

Where is Woody to bag on Jeeps?  Hellooo?

 

Kid in your hood needs remedial driving lessons, and heaven forbid he get a motorcycle.

 

Motor cycle might actually be a good thing remove him from the Gene pool before he reproduces. All used car prices have gone through the roof the past three years. Cheaper to buy new if your looking at anything less than 3-4yrs old around here. The number of kids driving mom and dads "Old" BMW, Lexus or Mercedes thats like 4yrs old is just mind blowing. Kids across the street daughter was driving a nice BMW through HS and College, younger Son has the old 2002 Lexus though for a while he was not kidding driving the Mint condition Black 928 Porsche dad bought new has 40,000 miles on it. Cracks me up when both parents complain to me that their kids are unmotivated to go get jobs and move out! Um hell if I had a free BMW and 928 to drive and free meals and a laundry service I wouldn't move out either!



#22 austin1972

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 06:38 PM

Wish I'd bought an old Wrangler. Instead I bought a new '08 Grand Cherokee. New model, etc. A few weeks ago the water pump blew out and because the coolant leaked out, the engine never showed overheating and seized. Totally wrecked the engine. now seeing how Chrysler interprets their "Lifetime Powertrain Warranty.  Left my daughter stranded by the side of the road for two hours...at night....on the interstate. Was planning on a Wrangler for my next car. now...maybe not so much... 

 

Water pump blew in my truck.  Wasn't hard to figure out a problem had occurred so I pulled over to see the thing puking fluid on the shoulder.

If you heard a funny pop on your boat or a thru-hull sensor wasn't working right, would you just keep going or would you check it?



#23 grabbler

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 08:56 PM



All 4.0L's leak or burn oil.  200K is just getting broken in.  At 125K my main bearings still had the machining marks visible.
 
XJs just keep going.
 
--Matt

They're good vehicles for sure, a friend's straight 6 ran forever.

They're just really easy to find, at least around here. $2k will buy a 120k Cherokee that still has another few years until the rebuild. Of course, if it was a CJ, YJ or TJ it would go for twice that even with no engine. But for some reason the Cherokees don't have nearly the value. From what I've seen they're as capable as the Wranglers, but they look like an SUV.

I'm starting to look for an older Wrangler for our teenage daughter. It will not be painted pink however, regardless how much she begs. If the ballerina wants a Barbie Jeep then she's going to have to get greasy helping to fix an old one.

And meanwhile, I'm a total hypocrite, my old truck has a bum water pump and I'm going to have the pro do the work because I have an irrational fear of screwing up timing belts.

You're also full of shit...I have a 92 Cherokee with 345431.9 on it which has leaked/burned oil for the last 100k...only thing I've had to do in that time is replace intake/exhaust manifold gasket...rebuild???psshawww!...and it is a daily driver on the days I don't need the F100 for lumber hauls...keeps the tools dry...

#24 billy backstay

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:06 PM

Sorry, can't quote or edit from this computer? Wofsey; please don't put your teenager in a Wrangler, the short wheelbase makes them dangerous for an inexperienced driver in an emergency. If she has to swerve sharply, it is very likely to turn over, whereas a longer, more normal wheelbase will not. I had one one for a while, and great fun to drive, mainly due to the wheelbase, but not safe for a newbie, especially a teenager, who by nature, will do some dumb things while maturing..

#25 mikewof

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:18 PM




All 4.0L's leak or burn oil.  200K is just getting broken in.  At 125K my main bearings still had the machining marks visible.
 
XJs just keep going.
 
--Matt

They're good vehicles for sure, a friend's straight 6 ran forever.

They're just really easy to find, at least around here. $2k will buy a 120k Cherokee that still has another few years until the rebuild. Of course, if it was a CJ, YJ or TJ it would go for twice that even with no engine. But for some reason the Cherokees don't have nearly the value. From what I've seen they're as capable as the Wranglers, but they look like an SUV.

I'm starting to look for an older Wrangler for our teenage daughter. It will not be painted pink however, regardless how much she begs. If the ballerina wants a Barbie Jeep then she's going to have to get greasy helping to fix an old one.

And meanwhile, I'm a total hypocrite, my old truck has a bum water pump and I'm going to have the pro do the work because I have an irrational fear of screwing up timing belts.
You're also full of shit...I have a 92 Cherokee with 345431.9 on it which has leaked/burned oil for the last 100k...only thing I've had to do in that time is replace intake/exhaust manifold gasket...rebuild???psshawww!...and it is a daily driver on the days I don't need the F100 for lumber hauls...keeps the tools dry...

You apparently live in a state that allows registration of a vehicle that burns oil, either that or your 92 doesn't have enough computer crap in it to incriminate you.

A ´97 that burns oil would have a hard time getting through the regular pollution testing in a state like mine. They would fail it on the hydrocarbon test and they would probably fall it on the engine computer reading assuming the oxygen sensor has been either gunked up with oil or registering a dirty burn.

A vehicle that can't pass emissions and it's too expensive to fix relative to the value of the vehicle is essentially worthless in testing states. Those get sold to people like you in states like yours.

#26 mikewof

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:29 PM

Sorry, can't quote or edit from this computer? Wofsey; please don't put your teenager in a Wrangler, the short wheelbase makes them dangerous for an inexperienced driver in an emergency. If she has to swerve sharply, it is very likely to turn over, whereas a longer, more normal wheelbase will not. I had one one for a while, and great fun to drive, mainly due to the wheelbase, but not safe for a newbie, especially a teenager, who by nature, will do some dumb things while maturing..


For the boy I agree. For the girl though I'm less worried about a rollover due to aggressive driving than I am about her getting hit by someone else. The Wrangler definitely isn't the safest vehicle but it seems safer than the lightweight Japanese vehicles she likes.

I'll look into it more. I suspect that the old CJs have worse stability compared to the newer ones.

She would also be okay with a restored pickup truck and I like the idea of her not being able to ferry a bunch of friends around.

It's the old question Backstay ... which is better for teenagers? A newer vehicle full of safety equipment but made of tinfoil, or an old vehicle with no safety technology but built like a Sherman Tank?

#27 billy backstay

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:33 PM

Well she should definitely have airbags. And I wasn't talking about her driving agressively, but swerving to miss some idiot who is coming right at her, or a child chasing a ball into the street between parked cars, etc. Our daughters first car was an older Cherokee which had high miles, airbags, and 4x4 for winter snow. Pretty safe ride, I reckon.

#28 Bulbhunter

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:49 PM

Sorry, can't quote or edit from this computer? Wofsey; please don't put your teenager in a Wrangler, the short wheelbase makes them dangerous for an inexperienced driver in an emergency. If she has to swerve sharply, it is very likely to turn over, whereas a longer, more normal wheelbase will not. I had one one for a while, and great fun to drive, mainly due to the wheelbase, but not safe for a newbie, especially a teenager, who by nature, will do some dumb things while maturing..


For the boy I agree. For the girl though I'm less worried about a rollover due to aggressive driving than I am about her getting hit by someone else. The Wrangler definitely isn't the safest vehicle but it seems safer than the lightweight Japanese vehicles she likes.

I'll look into it more. I suspect that the old CJs have worse stability compared to the newer ones.

She would also be okay with a restored pickup truck and I like the idea of her not being able to ferry a bunch of friends around.

It's the old question Backstay ... which is better for teenagers? A newer vehicle full of safety equipment but made of tinfoil, or an old vehicle with no safety technology but built like a Sherman Tank?

Wranglers are horribly bad regarding crash safety they do not need to meet any sort of Passenger car standards. They are very very easy to flip and the stock roll bars crumple easily. Woodie posted picts of a recent Wrangler model nearly smashed flat up side down after getting bumped by a small sedan on a city street. Your typical Toyota Corolla, Civic Impreza will pretty much cut a wranger in half and leave the passengers in the cars with hardly a mark on them due to all the passenger safety and roof strength requirements they must meet.

 

The only SUV vehicles using crash safety standards equal to passenger cars are the CUV's given they are all based on a car. The larger SUV's do not get tested and are not required to meet the same safety standards as the cars. So the idea a kid is safer in a Jeep GC vs Chrysler sedan is actually very far from what reality is.

 

Also I know far far more young women who have rolled SUV's than men it seems that far far fewer women and young girls simply have never had anyone explain that sitting up high in the SUV has a down side that yes it is very easy to flip them and there are some things you just do not do even if your faced with an impending accident.

 

Many years ago on a two lane highway very packed with fast moving traffic - traffic came to a hard stop I was in a car and the SUV behind me was not going to stop!!! I moved to the shoulder dirt center between the north and south bound lanes and went about 6 car lengths given the SUV driver did the same thing only they were on the brakes hard got into the soft shoulder and then rolled the SUV - our car wasn't even phased by the shoulder exit the SUV however under hard braking and the angle the shoulder sloped off was a pretty risky move. Woman driving the SUV was pretty badly hurt, the SUV tailgating her driven by a Guy simply locked up his brakes and hit the back of the stopped cars. He was fine no injuries- SUV's are only safer if you know how to handle them and when your facing a no way out situation you use the size and mass advantage of the SUV and hope you can stop in time.

 

I would put every young inexperienced driver in a CAR every time if you want them in the safest possible vehicle option.



#29 Bulbhunter

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:57 PM

Sorry, can't quote or edit from this computer? Wofsey; please don't put your teenager in a Wrangler, the short wheelbase makes them dangerous for an inexperienced driver in an emergency. If she has to swerve sharply, it is very likely to turn over, whereas a longer, more normal wheelbase will not. I had one one for a while, and great fun to drive, mainly due to the wheelbase, but not safe for a newbie, especially a teenager, who by nature, will do some dumb things while maturing..


For the boy I agree. For the girl though I'm less worried about a rollover due to aggressive driving than I am about her getting hit by someone else. The Wrangler definitely isn't the safest vehicle but it seems safer than the lightweight Japanese vehicles she likes.

I'll look into it more. I suspect that the old CJs have worse stability compared to the newer ones.

She would also be okay with a restored pickup truck and I like the idea of her not being able to ferry a bunch of friends around.

It's the old question Backstay ... which is better for teenagers? A newer vehicle full of safety equipment but made of tinfoil, or an old vehicle with no safety technology but built like a Sherman Tank?

 

Roof strength standards today are what 3x what they were 10yrs ago? Those old sherman tanks are only good if they don't fold up like tin can when hit or rolled. The newer cars some of them even before it was required were built with higher crash standards. The only thing that still applies is that size does matter so putting your kid in a brand new Two door Hyundai coup and they get smacked by a Camry your kid is still going to have some problems. Put them in any of the mid sized sedans built in the past 10yrs which had good ratings will greatly even the playing field and very slim chance the kid is going to put it on its lid reacting to the impending accident.

 

Stick them in any SUV and they will be on their lid.



#30 On the Hard

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 09:59 PM

Wish I'd bought an old Wrangler. Instead I bought a new '08 Grand Cherokee. New model, etc. A few weeks ago the water pump blew out and because the coolant leaked out, the engine never showed overheating and seized. Totally wrecked the engine. now seeing how Chrysler interprets their "Lifetime Powertrain Warranty.  Left my daughter stranded by the side of the road for two hours...at night....on the interstate. Was planning on a Wrangler for my next car. now...maybe not so much... 

Wrangler is ranked worst of the worst on just about every ranking today. Wouldn't touch that with a 50ft pole. Heck even a tired old Tacoma would be an improvement over a new Wrangler. Cousin flipped her newish GC and nearly killed herself on a 40mph road not paying attention clipped a curb. No idea why people put loved one's in those things? She's in a 2010 Subaru Legacy now and wishes she had been in the subaru all along.

 

Update - off-topic, but whatever - Chrysler is indeed going to put a new engine in my GC to the tune of about $9,300 according to the dealer. May still never buy a Wrangler but I feel better knowing they stood by their word on this one. Since the waterpump wasn't officially covered under the "Drivetrain" definition, they could have hosed me. Glad they didn't.



#31 billy backstay

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:00 PM

Saw a show on cable about a European crash testing place. Honda CRV received their highest rating after many different new cars where destroyed in various scenarios. So I bet a 5 year old one is likewise pretty safe.

#32 billy backstay

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:09 PM

Same daughters new boyfriend in Charleston has a brand new Cherokee, and the head gasket blew on their way back there recently. Car was less than a year, and dealer, or manufacture sprung for repair or new motor...

#33 Bulbhunter

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:13 PM

Billy I recall reading that some models by some makers all had roof strength standards met upwards of 5+yrs ago some makers such as Volvo and Subaru have always built their cars with a higher roof strength standard and other makers may have had certain models where they built them that way. This just one aspect of the crash worthy side of a vehicle but it tends to also show in the results of the other crash structure those vehicles were built with and that model tends to have a reputation for being pretty dang good over several generations of the model etc.

 

Nothing with the JEEP name plate currently on the roads today would be considered a crash worthy safe vehicle compared to the other choices on the market. The long delayed all new JEEP GC which still hasn't arrived may be the first Jeep that gets a respectable safety rating. I bet it has a very aggressive Stability control system to deal with inexperienced drivers trying their best to put it on its lid and structurally it will probably match the typical 5star sedan- if it does not JEEP will have some major explaining to do to consumers.



#34 billy backstay

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:30 PM

My wife drove a 75 Volvo in 83 when we met at the AC in Newport. She told me the world "volvo" is Swedish for "I roll". I never looked it up to verify though??

#35 On the Hard

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:36 PM

Same daughters new boyfriend in Charleston has a brand new Cherokee, and the head gasket blew on their way back there recently. Car was less than a year, and dealer, or manufacture sprung for repair or new motor...

 

I'm sure they were looking for fuel efficiency numbers, but I've always heard that the old Studebaker inline 6 that was in the original GC was bullet proof. Certainly lots of older GC's still on the road. I'm stunned about this^^^^^^ though. I'd want to sell said car before out of warranty.



#36 mikewof

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:37 PM

Bulb and Billy, thanks for the input. I remember now that SUVs aren't held to the same safety standards as cars. But what about the car-like SUVs like the Toyota Rav4 or Honda CRV? Do those follow car or truck safety guidelines?

From the undercarriage, they sure look like regular cars to me.

#37 billy backstay

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:43 PM

Mike I know the CRV is tested as a car, and as noted above, met the highest number of the European crash testing agency. Rav4 is undoubtedly similar. It's the old school body on frame rails that are truck like and not required to meet a cars standards. These here are Monocoque like structures with subframes mounted to the body.

#38 Bulbhunter

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 10:45 PM

Bulb and Billy, thanks for the input. I remember now that SUVs aren't held to the same safety standards as cars. But what about the car-like SUVs like the Toyota Rav4 or Honda CRV? Do those follow car or truck safety guidelines?

From the undercarriage, they sure look like regular cars to me.

In some cases they share identical make up as their car based sister ride. Example Subaru Forester and Subaru Impreza more or less the same ride. New Ford Escape vs Ford Focus - basically the same car.

 

CRV and Civic more or less the same vehicle but the older CRV's and Civics also were not exactly the most robust regarding crash standards Honda went through a period where they let their Brand perception sell cars and didn't really keep up on the crash safety improvements other competitors were making.

 

Rav4 is a funny animal for many years it was more or less just a tall Corolla and was pretty well respected recently the new one failed miserably bad I read perhaps even worse than the prior generation regarding crash testing. Also sounds like Toyota got slammed hard by the Automotive press for failing soo bad at the new design.



#39 billy backstay

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:07 PM

RE: Volvo meaning "I roll"; I looked it up and it's true, but not in the sense the car is safe in a rollover, but because the original name patent was intended to be used on ball bearings!

From wikipedia:

Volvo means "I roll" in Latin, conjugated from "volvere", in relation to ball bearing. The name Volvo was originally registered in May 1911 as a separate company within SKF AB and as a registered trademark with the intention to be used for a special series of ball bearing.[citation needed] This idea was only used for a short period of time and SKF decided to use "SKF" as the trademark for all its bearing products

#40 Bulbhunter

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 11:36 PM

This is the stuff newbie drivers do and putting them in vehicles that fail miserably handling this is bad

 



#41 Windward

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:04 AM

Watched some of that without sound, but the JGC didn't seem to look so good against those others.

 

Put my Wrangler JKU through that test and I imagine it won't fare very well due to the center of gravity or the oversize tires.

 

That said, we may be debating a silly topic here because everything is a tradeoff at some point.  That Volvo had low profile tires, and the JGC did not.  The Volvo is a much more expensive vehicle with fancy pants stability control etc.

 

I think I get your point is that there are safer better vehicles than the JGC.  Agreed.

 

Never drive one?  Meh...  If that's what's: a. available  b. affordable  c. painted pink,  I say have at it.   Just don't swerve at high speed apparently.  Noted.

 

Reminds me of a thread I read somewhere about the merits/risks of swerving to avoid an animal in the road, and the general consensus is to not swerve.



#42 Windward

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:10 AM

Check this out Mike W.   Old isn't necessarily better.

 



#43 Monkey

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 12:13 AM

Mike, 1st off... Your daughter will not spontaneously combust, instantly be crushed, and simultaneously become infected with bird flu if she drives a Wrangler as BulbHunter seems to think.

However, I agree with BH and the others who say it's not a great choice for a 16 year old. I love my Wrangler, but they simply are not forgiving vehicles when it comes to driver error. No matter how responsible your daughter is, she just doesn't have the experience we all take for granted after a few years of driving. New drivers react later and often over react when a bad situation arises. Wranglers aren't very good at coping with either of those.

It just isn't worth risking her safety to have a cool ride at 16. She's got her whole life to enjoy a pink Wrangler later.

#44 Hatin' life

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 02:37 AM

Put her in a 1 ton dually diesel. Plenty stable and it'll tear whatever she hits a new asshole.

Crash tests be damned, I'd much rather T bone somebody with my pickup long before I would with the Impreza.

#45 On the Hard

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 01:54 PM

I used to have a 2002 Mitsu Monterro. CR failed it because without training wheels on the side, it absolutely would rollover in a "moose" test. Drove that car for 10 years. Never once had to avoid a moose here in South Texas, but always remained aware of potential problems if sudden avoidance maneuvers were required



#46 Mojo Risin

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 04:07 PM

Sorry, can't quote or edit from this computer? Wofsey; please don't put your teenager in a Wrangler, the short wheelbase makes them dangerous for an inexperienced driver in an emergency. If she has to swerve sharply, it is very likely to turn over, whereas a longer, more normal wheelbase will not. I had one one for a while, and great fun to drive, mainly due to the wheelbase, but not safe for a newbie, especially a teenager, who by nature, will do some dumb things while maturing..


For the boy I agree. For the girl though I'm less worried about a rollover due to aggressive driving than I am about her getting hit by someone else. The Wrangler definitely isn't the safest vehicle but it seems safer than the lightweight Japanese vehicles she likes.
I'll look into it more. I suspect that the old CJs have worse stability compared to the newer ones.
She would also be okay with a restored pickup truck and I like the idea of her not being able to ferry a bunch of friends around.
It's the old question Backstay ... which is better for teenagers? A newer vehicle full of safety equipment but made of tinfoil, or an old vehicle with no safety technology but built like a Sherman Tank?
You may have that backwards. I'm in the thick of teenage driving. Two kids I know have rolled cars in the last year (my niece just Thursday) while driving thru neighborhoods with 30mph limits. Both were girls. One in an Explorer and one in a minivan. Both say they were within speed limits (but I realize there is always the story they don't want you to know).

Having made the decision of what to buy a teen, I'd say the car is not as important as the defensive driving course you enroll them in after they get their license. Look up Tire Rack's Street Survival course and invest in a good comprehensive driving course where they will learn how to use abs brakes, vehicle dynamics, and collision avoidance. Best $500 I ever spent on my daughter. There is not a scratch on her car and I am comfortable with her driving the Wrangler having had the conversation about its limits.

#47 billy backstay

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 04:27 PM

A lot of boys prior to driving a car, at least when I was growing up, have had some experience with go-karts, mini-bikes, even motorcycles that gives them some basic understanding of and feel for piloting a motor vehicle, that most girls did not experience.



#48 Monkey

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 09:54 PM


Sorry, can't quote or edit from this computer? Wofsey; please don't put your teenager in a Wrangler, the short wheelbase makes them dangerous for an inexperienced driver in an emergency. If she has to swerve sharply, it is very likely to turn over, whereas a longer, more normal wheelbase will not. I had one one for a while, and great fun to drive, mainly due to the wheelbase, but not safe for a newbie, especially a teenager, who by nature, will do some dumb things while maturing..

For the boy I agree. For the girl though I'm less worried about a rollover due to aggressive driving than I am about her getting hit by someone else. The Wrangler definitely isn't the safest vehicle but it seems safer than the lightweight Japanese vehicles she likes.
I'll look into it more. I suspect that the old CJs have worse stability compared to the newer ones.
She would also be okay with a restored pickup truck and I like the idea of her not being able to ferry a bunch of friends around.
It's the old question Backstay ... which is better for teenagers? A newer vehicle full of safety equipment but made of tinfoil, or an old vehicle with no safety technology but built like a Sherman Tank?
You may have that backwards. I'm in the thick of teenage driving. Two kids I know have rolled cars in the last year (my niece just Thursday) while driving thru neighborhoods with 30mph limits. Both were girls. One in an Explorer and one in a minivan. Both say they were within speed limits (but I realize there is always the story they don't want you to know).

Having made the decision of what to buy a teen, I'd say the car is not as important as the defensive driving course you enroll them in after they get their license. Look up Tire Rack's Street Survival course and invest in a good comprehensive driving course where they will learn how to use abs brakes, vehicle dynamics, and collision avoidance. Best $500 I ever spent on my daughter. There is not a scratch on her car and I am comfortable with her driving the Wrangler having had the conversation about its limits.
Defensive driving course or not (I highly recommend one!), an older Wrangler is just too twitchy for a newbie driver.

I've done the two wheel to two wheel dance at 60 mph with my Wrangler to avoid an idiot. An inexperienced driver would've had it tumbling down the highway. In simple terms, it was fucking terrifying. I felt less in control than I did with my Subaru doing 120 and airborne.

#49 Mojo Risin

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 10:51 PM


Sorry, can't quote or edit from this computer? Wofsey; please don't put your teenager in a Wrangler, the short wheelbase makes them dangerous for an inexperienced driver in an emergency. If she has to swerve sharply, it is very likely to turn over, whereas a longer, more normal wheelbase will not. I had one one for a while, and great fun to drive, mainly due to the wheelbase, but not safe for a newbie, especially a teenager, who by nature, will do some dumb things while maturing..

For the boy I agree. For the girl though I'm less worried about a rollover due to aggressive driving than I am about her getting hit by someone else. The Wrangler definitely isn't the safest vehicle but it seems safer than the lightweight Japanese vehicles she likes.
I'll look into it more. I suspect that the old CJs have worse stability compared to the newer ones.
She would also be okay with a restored pickup truck and I like the idea of her not being able to ferry a bunch of friends around.
It's the old question Backstay ... which is better for teenagers? A newer vehicle full of safety equipment but made of tinfoil, or an old vehicle with no safety technology but built like a Sherman Tank?
You may have that backwards. I'm in the thick of teenage driving. Two kids I know have rolled cars in the last year (my niece just Thursday) while driving thru neighborhoods with 30mph limits. Both were girls. One in an Explorer and one in a minivan. Both say they were within speed limits (but I realize there is always the story they don't want you to know).
Having made the decision of what to buy a teen, I'd say the car is not as important as the defensive driving course you enroll them in after they get their license. Look up Tire Rack's Street Survival course and invest in a good comprehensive driving course where they will learn how to use abs brakes, vehicle dynamics, and collision avoidance. Best $500 I ever spent on my daughter. There is not a scratch on her car and I am comfortable with her driving the Wrangler having had the conversation about its limits.
Defensive driving course or not (I highly recommend one!), an older Wrangler is just too twitchy for a newbie driver.
I've done the two wheel to two wheel dance at 60 mph with my Wrangler to avoid an idiot. An inexperienced driver would've had it tumbling down the highway. In simple terms, it was fucking terrifying. I felt less in control than I did with my Subaru doing 120 and airborne.

I didn't recommend a Wrangler for a new driver. I recommended a good driving course rather than nit over crash test ratings.

#50 atoyot

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Posted 19 October 2013 - 11:46 PM

Put her in a 1 ton dually diesel. Plenty stable and it'll tear whatever she hits a new asshole.

Crash tests be damned, I'd much rather T bone somebody with my pickup long before I would with the Impreza.

And I'd rather be able to out-maneuver the situation and avoid the accident alltogether. Fault be damned.

#51 Windward

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:30 PM

1 ton dually is going to cause all sorts of problems in the parking lot I think...

 

Regarding out-maneuvering, I'm a little on the fence.  Kill a deer (or me) by holding course, swerve violently and tumble, swerve within limits.  All situations are different.



#52 billy backstay

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:13 PM

1 ton dually is going to cause all sorts of problems in the parking lot I think...

 

Regarding out-maneuvering, I'm a little on the fence.  Kill a deer (or me) by holding course, swerve violently and tumble, swerve within limits.  All situations are different.

 

The squirrel or chipmunk that runs under my tires gets what it deserves, but I would definitely swerve for a cat, dog or a deer!



#53 Bulbhunter

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:17 PM

 

 


Sorry, can't quote or edit from this computer? Wofsey; please don't put your teenager in a Wrangler, the short wheelbase makes them dangerous for an inexperienced driver in an emergency. If she has to swerve sharply, it is very likely to turn over, whereas a longer, more normal wheelbase will not. I had one one for a while, and great fun to drive, mainly due to the wheelbase, but not safe for a newbie, especially a teenager, who by nature, will do some dumb things while maturing..

For the boy I agree. For the girl though I'm less worried about a rollover due to aggressive driving than I am about her getting hit by someone else. The Wrangler definitely isn't the safest vehicle but it seems safer than the lightweight Japanese vehicles she likes.
I'll look into it more. I suspect that the old CJs have worse stability compared to the newer ones.
She would also be okay with a restored pickup truck and I like the idea of her not being able to ferry a bunch of friends around.
It's the old question Backstay ... which is better for teenagers? A newer vehicle full of safety equipment but made of tinfoil, or an old vehicle with no safety technology but built like a Sherman Tank?
You may have that backwards. I'm in the thick of teenage driving. Two kids I know have rolled cars in the last year (my niece just Thursday) while driving thru neighborhoods with 30mph limits. Both were girls. One in an Explorer and one in a minivan. Both say they were within speed limits (but I realize there is always the story they don't want you to know).

Having made the decision of what to buy a teen, I'd say the car is not as important as the defensive driving course you enroll them in after they get their license. Look up Tire Rack's Street Survival course and invest in a good comprehensive driving course where they will learn how to use abs brakes, vehicle dynamics, and collision avoidance. Best $500 I ever spent on my daughter. There is not a scratch on her car and I am comfortable with her driving the Wrangler having had the conversation about its limits.
Defensive driving course or not (I highly recommend one!), an older Wrangler is just too twitchy for a newbie driver.

I've done the two wheel to two wheel dance at 60 mph with my Wrangler to avoid an idiot. An inexperienced driver would've had it tumbling down the highway. In simple terms, it was fucking terrifying. I felt less in control than I did with my Subaru doing 120 and airborne.

Major reason I ditched the 4runner for a Legacy GT. Two freeway accidents avoided within two weeks of each other both times I had the 4runner up on two wheels fully expecting to be tumbling down the highway ass over end just trying to avoid getting caught up in a bad accident. And I grew up driving lousy handling tall vehicles. Did not miss the 4runner for anything and really enjoyed the Legacy treated it like a truck more so than I did the 4runner. LOL

 

From a safety stand point vs new driver nothing beats the midsized 4dr when it comes to keeping them right side up and safe in an accident. You want all weather capability get an AWD car. The Legacy ran circles around trucks we have had when it came to snow ski trips and crappy road conditions. Kid wants cool and throws a fit - hand them a bus pass.






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