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Pick a new club boat/Class building. $20k, 30ft, Northeast US


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#101 tls

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:23 PM

 

Teach your potential owners how to use the club restroom format races so there is a mid day lunch and potty break at the club this also boosts club revenue BTW - then get them on Vipers, Open5.7's, U20 etc this is what many people are migrating in the direction of for racing boats anyway given the running costs are palatable and the racing is lots of fun.

 

Have you been reading the same thread as me? You are going to recommend an Open 5.7?  A boat that is slow, wet, physically demanding, and cabin-less.  It does not meet even a single one of their requirements. Perhaps they should consider 49'ers while they are at it. Kiteboards are all the rage.  

TLS,  maybe you didn't read the original post.  It mentioned hating phrf and wanting to go one-design.  Bulb has a great suggestion.

 

 

You mean the original post that specified a 30 foot boat for less than $20K, or his follow up posts that said it must have a head and be weekend cruisable?  How does a Viper, Open 5.7 or U20 meet any of those requirements?  



#102 Jangles13

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:58 PM

Bulbhunter- I'm on board with your idea. I'd just as soon have a U20 or something and stick to racing, which is why I have a 26' pure race boat that I've spent exactly 1 night on and had 2 people ever use the porta-potty in the past 5yrs.

However, the other club owners need a multi-purpose boat, so I can't expect them to, nor have they, follow me with a simple day sailor. The racing is about 50% of their usage. Most race Saturday afternoons and a couple big weekends, the rest of the boat time is spent cruising with and with out families. We need bigger boats to draw attention, and the cost has to be suited to the median income and length of season. I'll re-iterate that it may not be possible; but damn it, I'll try.



#103 Bulbhunter

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:59 PM

 

 

Teach your potential owners how to use the club restroom format races so there is a mid day lunch and potty break at the club this also boosts club revenue BTW - then get them on Vipers, Open5.7's, U20 etc this is what many people are migrating in the direction of for racing boats anyway given the running costs are palatable and the racing is lots of fun.

 

Have you been reading the same thread as me? You are going to recommend an Open 5.7?  A boat that is slow, wet, physically demanding, and cabin-less.  It does not meet even a single one of their requirements. Perhaps they should consider 49'ers while they are at it. Kiteboards are all the rage.  

TLS,  maybe you didn't read the original post.  It mentioned hating phrf and wanting to go one-design.  Bulb has a great suggestion.

 

 

You mean the original post that specified a 30 foot boat for less than $20K, or his follow up posts that said it must have a head and be weekend cruisable?  How does a Viper, Open 5.7 or U20 meet any of those requirements?  

 They meet the requirements he didn't list but said was important. Affordable, OD capable and fun to sail. If weekend escapes with the kids is needed why not get a 4knot shit box and do that and still go race the small fun boats? I bet 99% of the people hes thinking he can talk into a OD boat choice when it comes down to it hardly ever need the cabin but would spend more time day racing if being competitive did not involve replacing large costly jibs, mains and Kites every other season on a large boat. Heck they may even be more open to the idea if they can keep their 4knot shit box they actually use to overnight on.

 

It's very clear that his wants vs budget and convincing people to create a fleet of identical boats are all in conflict. He wants sporty but his budget and size puts him in old needing lots of rebuilding tired boats which pretty much kills the OD ability of having evenly matched boats not to mention the added hassle and time having the owners deal with old boat rebuilding shit. Then there is his interest in having a sporty light air sailing experience in said old not so sporty in light air boats.

 

He's looking at it all wrong go smaller go newer create events with a club break on fast boats that are lots of fun in light air and let the owners of the 4knot shit boxes keep em or sell them or even be partially involved heck convincing someone to sell the boat they know for a old boat they do not know just so they can have a couple of boats that are the same to hopfully have a level racing field involves three very hard sells - reduce the hard sells to just one - small fast affordable fun OD racing boats keep your old shitter if you like what do you think?

 

Vs sell your old shitter and buy another old shitter and fingers crossed the new old shitters all sail equally as well? LOL

 

Your better off hosting a Sports boat event talking some owners into coming with them knowing that you are trying to sell folks at the club on the idea of getting a few owners going to race these boats put them on the boats as crew and cut them loose. You'll have a few interested buyers have a meeting on which boat they all like and bingo your on your way.



#104 Jangles13

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:07 PM

With all do respect Bulbhunter, we're talking about a club with dues of $40, in not much more than a shack, with no facilities, no during-the-week racing, and a local median income under $40k. The next-door larger town population is under 7,000. I get what you're saying, but it's not this market. You're dreams of hosting sportboat events is so out perspective for this region, it's comical.

 

Edit: sorry, I looked it up, median is a tick over $41k.



#105 Bulbhunter

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:18 PM

With all do respect Bulbhunter, we're talking about a club with dues of $40, in not much more than a shack, with no facilities, no during-the-week racing, and a local median income under $40k. The next-door larger town population is under 7,000. I get what you're saying, but it's not this market. You're dreams of hosting sportboat events is so out perspective for this region, it's comical.

Great then your club challenge was like the one I helped with. Bar with a failing drinking population with a yacht club sign out front. No docks just a fire pit front porch and a dry yard full of tall weeds and junk boats. I helped a local Doctor decide on a boat and he bought 22 of them in two years all beach launched and raced he brought new blood to the membership got the club out of the hole on its owed money and today they run Jr's programs and have a larger boat fleet of Cal20's in addition to the Coronado 15 fleet. A $2000 Coronado was the pimped out queen of the fleet!

 

Why on earth do you think with those demographics that 20-30K big heavy keel boat old one that will need any various number of things fixed rebuilt etc would work? Sounds to me like the Coronado 15 $2000 or less and with as little repair or sail replacements as possible is what would work in your situation just like the one I helped out.

 

Go smaller, go with less potential repairs and rebuilding, easy to manage and focus on the event ie make it fun don't make it an all day stuck on the water thing. We would go out for two hours run a few short races right off the club come back everyone would have lunch some times a BBQ going with the Boyscouts running it etc make a porta potty stop get back in the boats shove off the beach and go do two more races. Some of the best fun I've had lots good friends and the age range was from pre-teens to some pretty grizzled old crusty dudes and equally experienced ladies all having a good time. If he had tried to do it with 30 footers the idea would have never gone past the napkin note he scratched the idea on.

 

BTW the portapotty was the big expense and a stretch to pay for facilities was a outdoor shower out of the side of the double wide trailer that made up the club house which was bare plywood floors and more or less had a bar and small kitchen in it.

 

The big deal was when we scored a piece of old dock that still floated and anchored it off the beach and could tie the boats up around the dock during lunch vs beaching them.



#106 Kent H

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:05 AM

Okay – The way I understand it you need recomendations to use as you approach members of this yacht club and other people in the area.  The boat may change but you need something to get people interested.

 

BTW Maine sucks as a location to do this!   I hope your truck and trailer are ready to travel.

 

Goals:

 

UNDER 150 PHRF

Under $20k all up

Cruising Ability

About 30 Feet

Some work but not a major overhaul

Enclosed head

 

So I did a Yachtworld search and in your Multi State/Provence area here are the boats with at least three listings.  All under $20,000. Looking for at least three of the boat for sale.  Guess what….none match what you are looking for!  

 

Would you really be able to get a good number of people who currently race into a J29 or a Pearson Flyer?   A C&C 29 MKII sure seems like a broader market.  Throw in the Top Down spin option for cruising and eventually local one design.  

 

If you let your PHRF number go up and you allow for a rule on sail buying over a period of three years this gets doable.  The reduction in crew will cost you a new spinnaker and a top down reefing system.  Cost is A sail spin + $1500 for an OK system.   Here are the boats listed in the order of what I think is the easiest to make your sales pitch.

 

C&C 29 MKII – Solid hull beneath the waterline.

Pearson 30 – Solid hull – Also can be found cheap- Tiller and wheel

C&C 30 – solid hull except for the bow area. 

 

The rest just suck.

Catalina 30

Irwin 30 Citation

Tartan 30

Pearson 28 Real Cheap

Sabre 28 Real Cheap

 

To get under 150PHRF and do everything else AND be able to convince those who currently have stand up head room, enclosed head and a decent boat

 

Jboats 30,  S2 9.1   plan on some work and of course you are definitely going to have to drive especially to get a J/30's in decent shape.   

 

 

BTW – None of those west coast boats showed up on the search!    It is Maine.... Heated work shed for one boat would be a fantastic improvement.  If you were to approach me with the idea of a C&C 29MK II you would have the best chance of convincing me that a one design fleet was doable.  



#107 Jangles13

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:15 AM

Kent, I love your enthusiasm.

 

The collective is looking at J/29s, J/30s, and Flyers in the near future. Traveling to Mass and R.I. to do so. In the future it may need to be further. I had a boat trucked in from Tennessee of all places, current came from Boston. There really isn't much in Maine.
 

I haven't been able to establish how much room is below decks on a Flyer. More than a J/29? Less?

I would like to think about 9.1s, but they're not as common and certainly are on the upper end of the budget.



#108 bloodshot

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:19 AM

I think 9.1s have the nicest interior of the ones you have mentioned followed by the J30.  J/29 and the PF are equally spartan.

 

URI Foundation has a PF for sale: http://www.urifounda...110211-1279.pdf



#109 Jangles13

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:23 AM

Yes, URI has one. Apparently they're having a change in program and must sell all the boats due to lack of storage. It's peaked my interested. Anyone know the story of the particular boat? It's an 81 with the BMW diesel, but I don't know much else. Looks like sail number 30950, HIN: PEA68132M811



#110 Kent H

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:26 AM

You have me thinking about Pearson Flyers for Lake Ontario - BUT that is a different situation. There are a bunch on the Great Lakes and most have new engines.    The Flyer does everything you want.  It is better built and owners like the boat compared to a J29.  So yes it would work.  There is more room than a J29 but it is a completely open boat.   The bow area on some boats had the plywood bulkhead removed and put in a real door as well as a holding tank head.   As long as you do not mind traveling then this is the boat because many have new engines and not the piss poor BMW.  The other thing is that you will have no problem getting someones hard work for pennies on the dollar...but you are driving.  I found the citation for the fully rebuilt flyer and it sold for Aprox $15k.  

 

I have raced on the flyer and definitely liked it.  So today I googled and read a couple SA threads as well as other pieces.  This would work for you but cherry picking the boats would be the key.   Google Pearson flyer and look at Yachtworld especially fresh water boats.  I think this might be the boat for you. 



#111 Kent H

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:28 AM

Yes, URI has one. Apparently they're having a change in program and must sell all the boats due to lack of storage. It's peaked my interested. Anyone know the story of the particular boat? It's an 81 with the BMW diesel, but I don't know much else. Looks like sail number 30950, HIN: PEA68132M811

 

The engine is horrible.  Factor in a new engine.  



#112 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:36 AM

+1

They are fun boats to sail. When I was a kid we had one that both won a lot of silver and we did multi-week cruises as well. Stove, inboard engine, head, bunks, etc. all make for a decent cruiser. Decent ones are all over for 10-15K. Only drawback I can see is they are a big-genoa boat. Maybe make your class roller furling to keep the old guys back in the cockpit ;)

70's pearson 30.  There are a metric shit ton of them around, they are cheap, plentiful and reasonably easy to sail.  180ish PHRF so not a rocket but decent.  You could get a boat for under 10K with a diesel and have money for a new set of sails.



#113 Jangles13

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:36 AM

For me personally the engine doesn't mean anything. I sail on and off the mooring. I leave the outboard below decks on my current boat, save 1 or 2 days a year. Noted issue though. I happen to be mechanically inclined and thus undeterred.

They are cheap though. One in Ontario with new Yanmar and trailer for $8500. Needs sails, but still... even paying a pro for the move it's not bad.



#114 Kent H

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:37 AM

http://www.sailingwo...deniable-Appeal

 

http://sailboatdata....sp?class_id=842

 

http://badhabit.home...rsonFlyers.html

 

All the Sailing Anarchy threads on the Pearson Flyer  -  You need that heated shed! 

 

https://www.google.c...iw=1920&bih=900

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


#115 jerseyguy

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:40 AM

I think 9.1s have the nicest interior of the ones you have mentioned followed by the J30.  J/29 and the PF are equally spartan.

 

URI Foundation has a PF for sale: http://www.urifounda...110211-1279.pdf

9.1s have legitimate cruising interiors, Flyer is pretty rustic, like camping out.  Quarterberths are absolutely huge.  Settee berths are quite serviceable..  I owned a Flyer for over a decade.  It is now on its 4th owner, the decks have been recored and it is still winning races.  Headroom is only 5'6" but with a beam slightly in excess of 11' it is quite roomy and not at all claustrophobic. 

 

I had problems with the BMW diesel almost from the get-go.  After the 2nd year I replaced it with a used Yanmar 2cyl.  That engine is still in the boat 30 years later and from what I hear working quite well.

 

It has an unbalanced rudder so downwind in a serious blow it can be a handful to drive.  We solved that problem by having our local yard put a leading edge on the rudder of a couple of incchs.  Sort of did it by eye not a lot of calculations.  It worked wonders. 

 

Great boat. Not a particularly pretty boat but a blast to sail



#116 billy backstay

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:01 AM

Open 5.7? They said they wanted to go cruising also?

#117 pqbon

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:07 AM

Yes, URI has one. Apparently they're having a change in program and must sell all the boats due to lack of storage. It's peaked my interested. Anyone know the story of the particular boat? It's an 81 with the BMW diesel, but I don't know much else. Looks like sail number 30950, HIN: PEA68132M811

I an unrepentant BMW fan... motorcycles (my last bike was an R1200RT and I've owned 4 other BMW motorcycles), cars (my wife and I have owned 3 BMW cars -- currently I drive one as my daily driver)

Having said that -- I have never heard anything good about the BMW diesel boat motor from anyone every...

 

If you do some googleing around you will read about all the issues - IIRC fundamentally the problem is they took a car diesel motor and put it on a boat and it was a poor fit for the job.



#118 jerseyguy

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:00 AM

Yes, URI has one. Apparently they're having a change in program and must sell all the boats due to lack of storage. It's peaked my interested. Anyone know the story of the particular boat? It's an 81 with the BMW diesel, but I don't know much else. Looks like sail number 30950, HIN: PEA68132M811

I an unrepentant BMW fan... motorcycles (my last bike was an R1200RT and I've owned 4 other BMW motorcycles), cars (my wife and I have owned 3 BMW cars -- currently I drive one as my daily driver)

Having said that -- I have never heard anything good about the BMW diesel boat motor from anyone every...

 

If you do some googleing around you will read about all the issues - IIRC fundamentally the problem is they took a car diesel motor and put it on a boat and it was a poor fit for the job.

If I remember the story right, I was told that the BMW diesel in the Flyer was originally a Hatz air-cooled diesel.  BMW took it, added water passages, and "marineized" it.  This was told to me by a diesel repair shop that got me some parts for mine.



#119 crash

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:06 AM

Owning an S2 9.1, I can say that many currently on the market have been there for a long time, and are overpriced as listed (hence being there for a long time).  Listing price and selling price are not necessarily related.  Especially in today's environment.  They are great dual purpose boats...a little faster than a J/30  or Pearson Flyer (when equally sailed) and a little more room inside than the J and a bunch more than the Flyer.  We race against both down here, and both are also great boats.  All three will have wet deck issues.  It goes with the territory when you are talking mid 80s racer cruisers...that shouldn't be a disqualifier, and with a group of any of them, you could fix one a winter as a group and have 4 really nice dry boats in not a long time.  Unless you go with sail limitations, the 9.1 (and the others too) likes a light air #1 when the wind is under 8, an AP #1 from 8-15, a #2 from 16-20, and a #3 from 18 up.  That said you can get away with a AP#1 and a #3 in most cases...

 

I think you could likely get the 4 your looking for in the 15-17 range.  That leaves 3k for a new sail as a start, to replace either the main or #1.  You could do a lot worse.  It'll be tough to do better.



#120 jerseyguy

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 02:16 AM

Owning an S2 9.1, I can say that many currently on the market have been there for a long time, and are overpriced as listed (hence being there for a long time).  Listing price and selling price are not necessarily related.  Especially in today's environment.  They are great dual purpose boats...a little faster than a J/30  or Pearson Flyer (when equally sailed) and a little more room inside than the J and a bunch more than the Flyer.  We race against both down here, and both are also great boats.  All three will have wet deck issues.  It goes with the territory when you are talking mid 80s racer cruisers...that shouldn't be a disqualifier, and with a group of any of them, you could fix one a winter as a group and have 4 really nice dry boats in not a long time.  Unless you go with sail limitations, the 9.1 (and the others too) likes a light air #1 when the wind is under 8, an AP #1 from 8-15, a #2 from 16-20, and a #3 from 18 up.  That said you can get away with a AP#1 and a #3 in most cases...

 

I think you could likely get the 4 your looking for in the 15-17 range.  That leaves 3k for a new sail as a start, to replace either the main or #1.  You could do a lot worse.  It'll be tough to do better.

Generally agree with your observations.  Unlike the 9.1 the Flyer is a fractional rig with 274 of its 435 sq. ft of sail in the main.  We had an AP #1, a 130% #2 and a #3.  Almost never used the #3. The #2 was our workhorse allowing us to fly a full main when keeping the #1 up would have had us going sideways.  Weakest point of sail on the Flyer was downwind in light air because of the baby kite on the 3/4 rig. 



#121 boston

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:00 AM

There have been a couple of flyers that have changed hands in the Mass Bay area over the past year, and both were sold on craigslist..... Not saying anything but yacht world isn't great for finding boats on the lower end of the price spectrum. 

 

with a quick google search I found the following flyers currently for sale in the New England area

$7500 Huntington, NY

$12500 Gloucester, MA

$6000 Jamestown, RI

 

I know of at least one more for sale locally but can't seem to find an online ad for it, and I know of another that was for sale a few weeks ago in Marblehead but that one has since been taken off of craigslist. 

 

 

The light air downwind performance of my flyer was improved by an order of magnitude by building bigger kites. I went up 8% on the hoist and out 20% on the pole length and the boat is completely different downwind. Here is a picture of us from this past season at the Great Chase race in Hull, MA holding off a Frers 33 and a Pearson 37R downwind. 

 

Our upwind inventory is a Light #1 at 155% a M/H #1 at 152% and a #3. 

 
Attached File  dsc_0229.jpg   33.82K   4 downloads


#122 BalticBandit

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:26 AM

Stars....  no not the new modern ones.  Do what Bill Brosius http://www.starclass.org/artman/publish/article_372.shtml  has done in Olympia WA (give him a call he'll talk you through the process if you want)

 

I raced in that fleet and 50% of the fleet is 50+yo.  and about 25% of it iis 65+

 

you can buy an old starboat  (even plastic ones) for under 5k. 

you can buy/get donated sails that are 2+ seasons old (that's the rule in Oly, no sail newer than 2 seasons)

 

Club rule - no droop hiking, hiking straps only.

 

and as they are 2 up, with 10 people you get 5 boats on the line.  with 16 people (one more than you need to get 5 etchells on the line) you have 8 boats. 

if you have enough crew to get 10 Etchells or Shields or U20s on the line,  you have 15 boats on your line

 

a 15 boat fleet is an absolute hoot!!

 

 

And then if these folks want a cruiser to take wife and kids out on... Let them buy a Hunter/Catalina/Bayliner 25'



#123 Kent H

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:17 AM

The two points that I keep seeing are that taking yourself out of the boat decision making and trying to see this through other members point of view........

 

1. Can you really get five other people to buy the boat in the condition that most of whatever boat that is being considered appear to be in?

 

- The engine will matter to others as will a host of other things

 

 2. At a rural club don't a number of people spend the weekend and some vacation living on their boat?  Can you sell them on a boat that has worse accommodations then what they already have? 

 

Ok S2 9.1 - 

 

http://www.sailingwo...sailboats/s2-91

 

http://sailboatdata....p?CLASS_ID=1485

 

 

 

 

There appears to be three versions - Version one, the first 7 boats have a short mast.  Version two is a tall mast and version three is a tall mast but an open interior, no enclosed head.(S2 9.1 Special Edition?)

 

Sailworld claims eight people needed to race.  

 

S2 built 128 of its popular 9.1 between 1983 and 1987.

 

http://www.s291.com

 

Take a look at the Technical Assistance, Fixes & Advice   That is some extensive info

 

 

http://phrf.yralis.org/node/46310



#124 Kent H

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:31 AM

With the demographics that you are talking about are we considering too big of a boat?   Get rid of the inboard and go with an outboard Capri 25 or even a Catalina 22 with a spin...can they fly a spin :)  Both are fairly dry boats.

 

 

Have you considered all just getting the same Dinghy so you can have one-design rowboat races around the moorings ?

 

 

I just want to cover any other possible suggestions to save others from coming up with boat suggestions that don't approach the restrictions that you outlined.....I know one design calendars!  ....no wait for it.....All members get the same online sailboat racing simulator!   Bad Maine Weather be dammed...your club races all year!......This really isn't a bad idea. 



#125 BayGal

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:02 PM

The two points that I keep seeing are that taking yourself out of the boat decision making and trying to see this through other members point of view........

 

1. Can you really get five other people to buy the boat in the condition that most of whatever boat that is being considered appear to be in?

 

- The engine will matter to others as will a host of other things

 

 2. At a rural club don't a number of people spend the weekend and some vacation living on their boat?  Can you sell them on a boat that has worse accommodations then what they already have? 

 

Ok S2 9.1 - 

 

http://www.sailingwo...sailboats/s2-91

 

http://sailboatdata....p?CLASS_ID=1485

 

 

 

 

There appears to be three versions - Version one, the first 7 boats have a short mast.  Version two is a tall mast and version three is a tall mast but an open interior, no enclosed head.(S2 9.1 Special Edition?)

 

Sailworld claims eight people needed to race.  

 

S2 built 128 of its popular 9.1 between 1983 and 1987.

 

http://www.s291.com

 

Take a look at the Technical Assistance, Fixes & Advice   That is some extensive info

 

 

http://phrf.yralis.org/node/46310

I know of two S2 9.1 for sale  within a mile of one another on northern Chesapeake bay. They sail weds night races with 5. A crew of 8 is overkill but maybe max on super high air nights.  PM me if actually interested

 

Why did Sonars fail? I frostbite sonars with a club full of sonars which one design along with J22s. The club owning a fleet of boats may be your answer. It brings people into sailing. Look at here and here



#126 Jangles13

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:15 PM

The reason for that size of boat is to keep the decks dry and have room for a proper head below. Remember I've got to be looking at boats that are dual-purpose if there's any hope to get buyers. I appreciate the thoughts about creating a small boat fleet, and while enjoyable -- and perhaps superior -- there hasn't been any discussion locally that would make me think one would be supported.

Two other thoughts being tossed around are Tarten 10 and Laser 28. I think the T-10 was mentioned earlier.


There aren't many of either around.

I like the looks of the Laser. Foam core makes me feel warm and fuzzy. Didn't make too many of them though. We only need a few...



#127 Jangles13

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:17 PM

Sonars failed because they were too one-purpose. As far as I can tell. For a $10k boat (with $5k in sails every so often) it wasn't checking off enough boxes for people to justify the cost given the 50hrs of sail time it got. Either not exciting enough, so they went faster, or not cruisable, so they went... cruisy.



#128 bowtostern

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:51 PM

T10's are a great choice. Contact Mike Boston at North Sails Detroit, formerly Boston Sails. He is the pro on those things but they are mostly on the lakes. Dont get crazy and worry about inventory issues. Take another look at Olsons, though crew numbers are a bit higher. San Juan 24s are bullet proof and can be had for a song, but on the wrong coast. J27, 29 and 30's are all great choices but you will struggle to find them by the bunch. If everyone is in it for the same reason there is no reason why a Sabre 28 wouldn't work. If you find 4 or 5 Evelyn 32's let me know. S2's are slugs but rate the same as J24s so in theory you could have a fleet of 4 S2's and 4 J24s and have a lot of fun. Pearson Ensigns are awesome classics and have perfect cockpits for summer cocktails but are not useful for destination cruising. Dont completely poo-poo Etchells, you can have fun on one in a non racing environment. Contrary to earlier talk, they are not that wet, unless you get over 15kts, which in Penn Bay in the summer is not a hell of a lot. You really should't discount the crew of 3 thing too much. Tuesdays in Portland are up to 15 Etchells, thats fun. Lasers, vipers and the like are for children, it really isn't fun to go out beer can racing with a life jacket on.  



#129 Steam Flyer

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 06:20 PM

Offer a round of beers and get the rest of the guys you think will build this fleet with you together to pick boats. What already has big numbers locally? Go with that.

Exact boat does not matter much what you need is 

1. Enough boats in the fleet so can race all the most fun regattas as a fleet

2. People owning/skippering those boats that want to build a fleet and who want to race in a fleet not phrf

3. Owners /skippers who are networked in local sailing enough that they can get the crew and better yet convince others that this is the fun fleet to sail. 

4. Skippers and boats of about equal skill so that races are not blow outs where the same boat wins every single race

 

If you want to build a fleet - this is the only post you need to read.  Get potential owners/skippers together and decide together.  Don't pick a boat and expect others to follow.

 

 

Bingo

 

One problem is that you're expecting too much for too little. There is no such thing as "one-design" once you get bigger/more complex than a Flying Scot. 30'production racer-cruisers available in the mid-teen$ ?? Forget it, you'll rapidly find that they changed lots of stuff, some of it fundamental, as the production run went on, so a '78 is not "one-design" with an '80 etc etc.

 

Get the group together and discuss the Furniture 30s. Bristols? Pearsons? Ericsons? J-30s? It almost doesn't matter, as long as you pick something that there's at least a dozen of on YachtWorld.com in your region at the right price level. and it's one that at least a few in your group already love.

 

Reading some of the comments here is like visiting a surrealist landscape... I'm tempted to recommend a Hunter Vision 32

 

The Pearson Flyer is a nice boat to sail but if anybody wants any degree of interior room, it isn't the boat. Think J-24 stretched out to 30' and given a nicer cockpit.

 

If the group can collaborate on the fixing up that will be necessary, and go in on group sail purchases, that will go a long way towards making it a fun fleet. And if you make it fun, they'll come.

 

FB- Doug



#130 Red Dragon

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:36 PM

I love these threads where the same ideas get repeated many, many times, and the OP just keeps rebutting the reasons everyone else is giving for their choices.
 
To the point, I think that the OP needs to give it up and just do his darndest to encourage more people to come out and sail Portsmouth. That way each person can make their own choices about how cruisy or racy they want their own boat to be and the compromises don't take a whole club full of people out of sailing. I say this as someone who has sailed one-design boats for almost 40 years, but it also sounds as if there is no real collective thought process going on at a very small club with only a handful of people who 'might' be interested. Even if they were to put together three-four boats full of people who want to make a go, the possibility of growth sounds very limited, and I know from long experience that a one-design fleet with three boats in it is not a healthy one and is not likely to last very long.
 
Personally what I would do is make a target of 8 boats. I'd look at the number of people interested and then figure out how to put 8 boats on the water with those numbers. The 'old' boat Star fleet is a great example of how this can work (you have to find one crew, and the costs are very reasonable). If I couldn't put 8 legit boats on the water I'd give up on the idea and drum up local Portsmouth racing as an alternative.
 
RD

#131 bloodshot

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:44 PM

ok, I've solved the OP's issue:

 

Step 1.  get 4-5 potential owners around a table at your club

Step 2.  place a handle of rum in the middle

Step 3.  Tell them all that no one leaves until 1. the rum is gone, 2. they've selected a boat or 3. both
Step 4.  Profit!



#132 dolphinmaster

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:44 PM

I love these threads where the same ideas get repeated many, many times, and the OP just keeps rebutting the reasons everyone else is giving for their choices.
 
To the point, I think that the OP needs to give it up and just do his darndest to encourage more people to come out and sail Portsmouth. That way each person can make their own choices about how cruisy or racy they want their own boat to be and the compromises don't take a whole club full of people out of sailing. I say this as someone who has sailed one-design boats for almost 40 years, but it also sounds as if there is no real collective thought process going on at a very small club with only a handful of people who 'might' be interested. Even if they were to put together three-four boats full of people who want to make a go, the possibility of growth sounds very limited, and I know from long experience that a one-design fleet with three boats in it is not a healthy one and is not likely to last very long.
 
Personally what I would do is make a target of 8 boats. I'd look at the number of people interested and then figure out how to put 8 boats on the water with those numbers. The 'old' boat Star fleet is a great example of how this can work (you have to find one crew, and the costs are very reasonable). If I couldn't put 8 legit boats on the water I'd give up on the idea and drum up local Portsmouth racing as an alternative.
 
RD

RED has laid the cape out in front of the runaway bull and put a saber in.  Well put.






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