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#1 Editor

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:10 PM

Well, there you have it, folks.  ISAF has shown that it knows exactly where its bread is buttered, once again selecting olympic class sailors over everyone else for the sport's highest honor.  Out of 40 recipients of the award since its inception, this marks the 25th and 26th time that Olympic class dinghy sailors have won.  This year's pick:  I-470 helm Mat Belcher and I-470 helm and crew "Jolly" as its male and female 'World Sailors of the Year'.  That's the same ISAF that, without funding from the International Olympic Committee and IOC partners,  would consist of three old guys in an office wearing blue blazers and nice watches.

 

Neither of the teams selected for the award won an Olympics during the qualification period, because there was no Olympics.  So what, exactly, did they do?  They won their respective dinghy class Worlds in 2013, along with some other ISAF-pimped events that no one in the world - except for 470 sailors and their families - cares about, or will ever care about.  Yes, they are great sailors, the best in the world in their classes.  But the World Sailors of the Year?  Gimmeafuckingbreak.

 

Hey, at least ISAF is consistent. Consistent in their ability to screw up anything they touch.

 

New name suggestion for next year's award?  The 2014 ISAF WORLD SAILOR OF THE YEAR PRESENTED BY THE INTERNATIONAL OLYMPIC COMMITTEE®.



#2 hdglightning

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:17 PM

I don't care about the 470, though looking at the people listed there is a good argument for any one of them to be picked.  I understand the Ed's interest in promoting speed sailing over other classes (i.e. Larson vs the others), but every nomination really shows some sort of specialization in their "area".



#3 Cliffyk

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:29 PM

Hey, it could have been worse.  They could have picked Dan Meyers!  

 

These kids are deserving.  You're right to point out the institutional bias of ISAF, and to point out that 470 sailing won't do much to attract broader interest in the sport, but I think you were too harsh on Mat and Jolly.  

 

Sailor of the year probably should have been Bora.  



#4 bob d

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:36 PM

You have something against old guys and nice watches?



#5 hdglightning

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:39 PM

Personally I think it should have been Terhune...but the ISAF timeframes don't really work well for his season.  But there has not been too many sailors who have won national AND world titles (and done very well in events he has not won as well) as he has this season...



#6 fastyacht

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:47 PM

Sailing is Balkanized. Deal with it.



#7 flatearth

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 06:55 PM

The MNAs are the ones that vote on the selected nominees. Complain to your ISAF Delegates.



#8 bgulari

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 08:05 PM

Hey, it could have been worse.  They could have picked Dan Meyers!  

 

These kids are deserving.  You're right to point out the institutional bias of ISAF, and to point out that 470 sailing won't do much to attract broader interest in the sport, but I think you were too harsh on Mat and Jolly.  

 

Sailor of the year probably should have been Bora.  

This is the world sailor of the year, I didnt have any good results in the qualifying time period, but for the next year i will have two moth worlds and two melges 24 worlds in the 12 month period so who knows.



#9 auscat

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 08:07 PM

No surprise there, but feel disappointed for Larso.No doubt they have all done great things in their field but what Larso did was extraordinary.

#10 Delta Blues

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 08:08 PM

Anyone follow Watergate?  "Follow the Money."  Last I heard, ISAF's budget was something like $7M.  $3M of that came from the Olympics.  The other $4M came from the Member National Authorities (MNA's - US Sailing, Sail Canada, Yachting Australia, etc.).  And just how much money do the MNA's get for their Olympic efforts?

 

Just remember the Olympic tail, wags the Sailing dog!



#11 jewing

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 08:35 PM

Personally I think it should have been Terhune...but the ISAF timeframes don't really work well for his season.  But there has not been too many sailors who have won national AND world titles (and done very well in events he has not won as well) as he has this season..

 

Both Allan and Katie...



#12 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 08:35 PM

 i will have two moth worlds and two melges 24 worlds in the 12 month period so who knows.

HA!



#13 sailing man

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 08:47 PM

Funny reading this. First, congrads to the winners, you won, and no one can take that from you. But, you can't take this award seriously or think it means the best sailor in the world. Frank Cammas has all but dominated the world of sailing the last 3 years and has not won this award. SO, when I hear ISAF sailor of the year I think, sailing that doesn't involve the French or Modern Sailing or any of the guys who won a truck load of World's (Terhune) or Broke major records (Outright speed) or any other major sailing events (gabart). Dominating an olympic class is cool and something I will never experience, but to compare that to winning the Vendee Globe or the Volvo Ocean Race. I would take a win in either of those race over dominating a class for a year and half or even an entire Olympic Cycle. Just my opinion........... 



#14 hdglightning

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 09:32 PM

Sailing Man,

   I totally understand the thoughts...BUT...the problem with any of this is that you have to assign some "weight" to each accomplishment.  For example...if oyu are the winning AC skipper, how much does that "weigh" vs say the moth worlds win (Bora)?  Does the type of event rank higher?  What about the conditions at that specific event?  

   I agree that the Volvo or Vendee (well more the Vendee since it is a solo sport, easier to point to an individual vs team) should garner quite a bit of weight.  What I don't know is does it weigh enough to have a single event (even at 100+ days like a Vendee) overwhelm several dominating performances from an individual in a class?  I honestly don't know, all I can do is look at the ISAF's picks in the past and look to their assignment of "Weight".

 

   Right now their weight is assigned towards ISAF classes and specifically Olympic classes.  A win there will grant you top consideration.

 

   Bora's situation should be a good telltale for this weight.  

 

   Even so, I can't diminish a win in any class, from a Daysailor to a AC72.  They all take a measure of talent, success, luck, money, etc.  The 470 might not be your "cup of tea" but to do well in it in an international event (worlds) takes talent that VERY few people have.  We might not think it is as hard as other classes, or we might not think it is as cool as other wins, but it is a damn fine accomplishment.  To even suggest that it is not an awesome accomplishment is total BS. 

 

Funny reading this. First, congrads to the winners, you won, and no one can take that from you. But, you can't take this award seriously or think it means the best sailor in the world. Frank Cammas has all but dominated the world of sailing the last 3 years and has not won this award. SO, when I hear ISAF sailor of the year I think, sailing that doesn't involve the French or Modern Sailing or any of the guys who won a truck load of World's (Terhune) or Broke major records (Outright speed) or any other major sailing events (gabart). Dominating an olympic class is cool and something I will never experience, but to compare that to winning the Vendee Globe or the Volvo Ocean Race. I would take a win in either of those race over dominating a class for a year and half or even an entire Olympic Cycle. Just my opinion........... 



#15 USA190520

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 09:55 PM

Want an award that actually has weight?

Why not an award that is voted on by sailors for sailors- it need not be Rolex, think about it, does a "real" sailor wear a Rolex daily? Ok, I do but it was my father's and when he bought it he looked down at me and said "one day this will be yours". I digress. If there were a sailors choice award open to all sailors of all disciplines I believe the weight of the nomination alone would be more meaningful than a chunk of SS disguised as a superlative chronometer.

It's one thing to be voted "the best" by a closed door council of stuffed shirts, quite another to be voted "best of the best" by your peers. Your peers know the details behind your victories and losses. They know because they're your peers. They are there in person or vicariously, as equals not judges. They know what you do on and off the water for the good or bad of our sport- sorry but a couple kids in 470's twerking around a a race course does not make a "sailor of the year" IMHO.

Congrats to the winners, but know that there are a lot of sailors out there who deserve that title who will never be considered under the current guidelines.

#16 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:38 PM

what's a 470?



#17 Pants

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:45 PM

So who will win US sailor(s) of the year? 



#18 Flatbag

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 10:59 PM

what's a 470?

 Isn't that like a 360 penalty turn  but you go 110 degrees further just to make sure?



#19 DavidNumber1

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 11:20 PM

Mat Belcher has won 17 470 regatta's in a row, 4 worlds in a row, the last Olympics... that's pretty incredible, and very impressive. The people calling Mat Belcher a kid sailing around in a 470 must be having a joke.

 

Francois Gabart's (not Gabard as the fp article would indicate...) achievement is also mighty impressive, as is Paul Larsen, but since they have only 1 big achievement it is always going to be hard for them to get up over someone like Belcher who has for a few years dominated one of the most competitive fleets in world sailing, and has the opportunity to win several big regattas in one year.

 

At the end of the day, it doesn't mean a lot, and there is no doubt that the winners are great sailors.



#20 auscat

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 11:27 PM

Mat Belcher has won 17 470 regatta's in a row, 4 worlds in a row, the last Olympics... that's pretty incredible, and very impressive. The people calling Mat Belcher a kid sailing around in a 470 must be having a joke.

 

Francois Gabart's (not Gabard as the fp article would indicate...) achievement is also mighty impressive, as is Paul Larsen, but since they have only 1 big achievement it is always going to be hard for them to get up over someone like Belcher who has for a few years dominated one of the most competitive fleets in world sailing, and has the opportunity to win several big regattas in one year.

 

At the end of the day, it doesn't mean a lot, and there is no doubt that the winners are great sailors.

Bit hard to smash 17 speed sailing records in a row. Not wanting to take anything away from Belcher just saying.



#21 does it matter?

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 11:29 PM

The front-page commentary on this site has become a fucking joke!  

 

For the past three years this site has been on a downward slope; these days I read more "hey look at how they are fucking us", or "look at how much this guy fucking sucks" type of articles than actual insightful reporting.  Clean is the only one doing anything meaningful on here.  This ED character seems to have decided that he is now going to use this site as his personal podium with which to pursue his goal of "whiniest bitch in the world."  

 

"Hey look everyone, i'm being sued by this asshole....look at how unethical he is, look at how fat he is!  What a fat ass."  My father always told me: dont explain, dont complain.  Bottom line, you fucked up.  STFU and take it like a man.

 

"Oh my god, can you believe how shitty this Americas Cup is??  I mean, can you believe it??  Like, OMG, another day without sailing???....WTF....these guys are such fucking idiots, this regatta is such a joke."  Dude, I am a match racer, and that was the most exciting cup I have seen in my entire life.  Oh, by the way, Oracle holds on to the cup, and you are one step further away from having anything to do with it.  Idiots.

 

....and now this...."Hey everyone, look at how much a joke ISAF is....they totally only pick Olympic and World Champions in ISAF classes for Sailor of the Year awards....what a fucking joke."  Commentary like that makes me wonder if you have ever won a regatta, not race, regatta in your career.  When I read the bio's for all the guys there was NO DOUBT in my mind that Belcher would win....he won 13 straight 470 regattas!!!  Including the Olympics & the Worlds....fuck me that is impressive in any fleet anywhere in the world...let alone in the 470 at the highest level of our sport.  Not to take anything away from what the other guys have done, but come one guys, stop being fucking haters for two seconds and recognize how amazing that is.  But you cant, because you're an asshole.  What't that saying, 'to a hammer, everything looks like a nail'?

 

Jesus.  Who would have thought that we would need to teach the editor of a sailing news website how to spot good sailing?  I, for one, can't do it any more...I will only stay on this site long enough to write down the names of your advertisers so I can write them all letters tomorrow.  @Clean, you should strike out on your own; email me if you need help.  @Ed, you and your website can choke on a bag of dicks in a structure fire.



#22 Abbo

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Posted 12 November 2013 - 11:52 PM

Wake up to yourself Ed. You are way off the pace. Undeserved?  Olympic Sailors not the worlds best? Give US a fucking break! That's the biggest load of shit you have ever typed and that is REALLY saying something!

 

Here's just a few names ( I know there's plenty more) that stepped out of the London Olympics into DOMINANT roles in the 34th  A-Cup. Slingsby, Ainslie, Outteridge, Percy, Simpson.... ever heard of them? You might think Olympic sailors are shite, but the entire world disagrees with you. All successful Olympic sailors are in high demand across all other classes in this sport.

 

I'd suggest you should have a good look at who the US nominated first. A pair of fucking kiteboarders!!! I am a kiteboarder myself I would mention those two in the same sentence as ANY of the other nominees. The sport is in it's absolute infancy. I don't see any kite boarders in high demand in any other form of sailing.  How the fuck did Heinken get nominated over Bora?

 

Matty Belcher has been overlooked several times despite dominating the class for about the last 6 years. Currently on 17 wins in a row. Additionally he is the best ambassador for the sport that I have ever seen, constantly making appearances at local clubs and talking to the kids. I can't comment on the girls but I'm quite sure they are just as deserving.

 

I can only guess that you wrote that headline grabbing piece of inflammatory trash merely to gain web traffic.

 

Abbo,

 

Out.



#23 sailing man

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 12:00 AM

Sailing Man,

   I totally understand the thoughts...BUT...the problem with any of this is that you have to assign some "weight" to each accomplishment.  For example...if oyu are the winning AC skipper, how much does that "weigh" vs say the moth worlds win (Bora)?  Does the type of event rank higher?  What about the conditions at that specific event?  

   I agree that the Volvo or Vendee (well more the Vendee since it is a solo sport, easier to point to an individual vs team) should garner quite a bit of weight.  What I don't know is does it weigh enough to have a single event (even at 100+ days like a Vendee) overwhelm several dominating performances from an individual in a class?  I honestly don't know, all I can do is look at the ISAF's picks in the past and look to their assignment of "Weight".

 

   Right now their weight is assigned towards ISAF classes and specifically Olympic classes.  A win there will grant you top consideration.

 

   Bora's situation should be a good telltale for this weight.  

 

   Even so, I can't diminish a win in any class, from a Daysailor to a AC72.  They all take a measure of talent, success, luck, money, etc.  The 470 might not be your "cup of tea" but to do well in it in an international event (worlds) takes talent that VERY few people have.  We might not think it is as hard as other classes, or we might not think it is as cool as other wins, but it is a damn fine accomplishment.  To even suggest that it is not an awesome accomplishment is total BS. 

 

Funny reading this. First, congrads to the winners, you won, and no one can take that from you. But, you can't take this award seriously or think it means the best sailor in the world. Frank Cammas has all but dominated the world of sailing the last 3 years and has not won this award. SO, when I hear ISAF sailor of the year I think, sailing that doesn't involve the French or Modern Sailing or any of the guys who won a truck load of World's (Terhune) or Broke major records (Outright speed) or any other major sailing events (gabart). Dominating an olympic class is cool and something I will never experience, but to compare that to winning the Vendee Globe or the Volvo Ocean Race. I would take a win in either of those race over dominating a class for a year and half or even an entire Olympic Cycle. Just my opinion........... 

Very good points, and that lends itself to the issue of sailor of the year because that title by itself means you have to weight each event.

But also consider with the 470 guys domination over the last few years, Frank Cammas has dominated fully pro events over the same time period but didnt even get nominated (i.e. Route de Rhum, Jule Verne Record, Discovery Record, Volvo Ocean Race, Tour de France, French Match Racing Champ, Little America's Cup and lets toss in there he trained Oracle for the Cup). 

So with that record since 2010, if he can't get even nominated let alone win one out of 3 years, I can't take this "Award" seriously because it is obviously not about Sailing as much as the title implies. 

So, that is why you hear people saying wait a minute..... what does it take to win this award?



#24 Big Show

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 12:28 AM

...When I read the bio's for all the guys there was NO DOUBT in my mind that Belcher would win....he won 13 straight 470 regattas!!!  Including the Olympics & the Worlds....fuck me that is impressive in any fleet anywhere in the world...let alone in the 470 at the highest level of our sport.  Not to take anything away from what the other guys have done, but come one guys, stop being fucking haters for two seconds and recognize how amazing that is.  But you cant, because you're an asshole.  What't that saying, 'to a hammer, everything looks like a nail'?...

Well said NH. About time you posted again let alone had a good rant. And it is actually 17 in a row. It is definitely beyond impressive and likely beyond compare but the Ed is completely blind to it such is his apparent hatred of ISAF.  

 

17 in a row in any class period, let alone an Olympic class including an Olympics and multiple Worlds straight without a single event loss... It's staggering. How is it even possible? You'd think a completely independent and uncontrollable variable would turn at least one of the 17 1st into at least 2nd. The flu. A broken cotter pin. Whatever... 17 is too perfect to be believable. But it's true so give the man his Rolex. Amazing stuff. 

 

Cammas too. How unbelievably sick is the run that guy is on? Young buck Gabart smashes the Vendee record in the tightest race ever in the toughest race - period. Larso absolutely destroys the world speed record. I mean he #$%* obliterated it!

 

These are special times. All are special talents. I couldn't begrudge any of those guys winning and one, Cammas, wasn't even nominated?!?

 

PW



#25 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 12:38 AM

Wake up to yourself Ed. You are way off the pace. Undeserved?  Olympic Sailors not the worlds best? Give US a fucking break! That's the biggest load of shit you have ever typed and that is REALLY saying something!
 
Here's just a few names ( I know there's plenty more) that stepped out of the London Olympics into DOMINANT roles in the 34th  A-Cup. Slingsby, Ainslie, Outteridge, Percy, Simpson.... ever heard of them? You might think Olympic sailors are shite, but the entire world disagrees with you. All successful Olympic sailors are in high demand across all other classes in this sport.
 
I'd suggest you should have a good look at who the US nominated first. A pair of fucking kiteboarders!!! I am a kiteboarder myself I would mention those two in the same sentence as ANY of the other nominees. The sport is in it's absolute infancy. I don't see any kite boarders in high demand in any other form of sailing.  How the fuck did Heinken get nominated over Bora?
 
Matty Belcher has been overlooked several times despite dominating the class for about the last 6 years. Currently on 17 wins in a row. Additionally he is the best ambassador for the sport that I have ever seen, constantly making appearances at local clubs and talking to the kids. I can't comment on the girls but I'm quite sure they are just as deserving.
 
I can only guess that you wrote that headline grabbing piece of inflammatory trash merely to gain web traffic.
 
Abbo,
 
Out.

Well said Abbo. Matt is above all a great ambassador for the sport and role model for kids. And of course a member of the greatest yacht club on earth.

#26 Foredeck Shuffle

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 12:39 AM

50 too late...

what's a 470?



#27 SPORTSCAR

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:15 AM

Medal Race day at Sail Melbourne 2012. Never seen a man more focused; don't look into those eyes...

 

Attached File  Sail Melb 2012 Will & Matt.JPG   441.72K   13 downloads

 

Congratulations Matt, so very well deserved recognition of an outstanding career in sailing!



#28 DavidNumber1

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:34 AM

Mat Belcher has won 17 470 regatta's in a row, 4 worlds in a row, the last Olympics... that's pretty incredible, and very impressive. The people calling Mat Belcher a kid sailing around in a 470 must be having a joke.

 

Francois Gabart's (not Gabard as the fp article would indicate...) achievement is also mighty impressive, as is Paul Larsen, but since they have only 1 big achievement it is always going to be hard for them to get up over someone like Belcher who has for a few years dominated one of the most competitive fleets in world sailing, and has the opportunity to win several big regattas in one year.

 

At the end of the day, it doesn't mean a lot, and there is no doubt that the winners are great sailors.

Bit hard to smash 17 speed sailing records in a row. Not wanting to take anything away from Belcher just saying.

Yeah for sure, that's why I said it is always going to be hard for people like Paul and Francois, who only have one big event that they can perform in to compete with someone like Mat, who sails in many regattas each year.



#29 hdglightning

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:09 AM

Cammas probably should have been nominated.  Probably should talk to his member authority about why they did not nominate him.  They are to blame, not the ISAF for Frank not being on the list.

 

Saying that, the C class and Americas cup time would not have counted as they are outside of the timeframe.  Just like Bora's worlds would not have counted.  Also the ISAF has shown repeatedly (And verbally) that they a) value ISAF sanctioned events higher than non events, and B) value individual achievements higher than team based.  So Franks Volvo domination would probably not put "him" in the running, as how can you classify his actions to be above the other team members for that event (you really can't).  Larson's speed sailing also suffers from this to some extent, his performance was awesome but it was not an "ISAF" event.

 

In the end the front page "hatred" for what the ISAF voted for is a dick move and low class.  Simple as that.  Many other people are fully justified in being considered, and I am sure that every person nominated feels proud to have been nominated, and also happy for the winners.  They know what respect means, even if SA's editors don't.



#30 fireball

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:59 AM

The winners are very good sailors, but Paul Larsen added close to 10 knots to the world speed record over 500m. 10 knots!!! How amazing is that?

 

The 470s would probably disintegrate if they got up to speeds that are commonplace in other boats.

 

Giving both awards to 470 sailors is like giving a motor racing award to the winner in the Toyota Corolla stock-car division. Sure they are very good at their discipline, but it certainly isn't the pinnacle of the sport.



#31 Mr. Andersen

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 04:03 AM

The front-page commentary on this site has become a fucking joke!  
 
For the past three years this site has been on a downward slope; these days I read more "hey look at how they are fucking us", or "look at how much this guy fucking sucks" type of articles than actual insightful reporting.  Clean is the only one doing anything meaningful on here.  This ED character seems to have decided that he is now going to use this site as his personal podium with which to pursue his goal of "whiniest bitch in the world."  
 
"Hey look everyone, i'm being sued by this asshole....look at how unethical he is, look at how fat he is!  What a fat ass."  My father always told me: dont explain, dont complain.  Bottom line, you fucked up.  STFU and take it like a man.
 
"Oh my god, can you believe how shitty this Americas Cup is??  I mean, can you believe it??  Like, OMG, another day without sailing???....WTF....these guys are such fucking idiots, this regatta is such a joke."  Dude, I am a match racer, and that was the most exciting cup I have seen in my entire life.  Oh, by the way, Oracle holds on to the cup, and you are one step further away from having anything to do with it.  Idiots.
 
....and now this...."Hey everyone, look at how much a joke ISAF is....they totally only pick Olympic and World Champions in ISAF classes for Sailor of the Year awards....what a fucking joke."  Commentary like that makes me wonder if you have ever won a regatta, not race, regatta in your career.  When I read the bio's for all the guys there was NO DOUBT in my mind that Belcher would win....he won 13 straight 470 regattas!!!  Including the Olympics & the Worlds....fuck me that is impressive in any fleet anywhere in the world...let alone in the 470 at the highest level of our sport.  Not to take anything away from what the other guys have done, but come one guys, stop being fucking haters for two seconds and recognize how amazing that is.  But you cant, because you're an asshole.  What't that saying, 'to a hammer, everything looks like a nail'?
 
Jesus.  Who would have thought that we would need to teach the editor of a sailing news website how to spot good sailing?  I, for one, can't do it any more...I will only stay on this site long enough to write down the names of your advertisers so I can write them all letters tomorrow.  @Clean, you should strike out on your own; email me if you need help.  @Ed, you and your website can choke on a bag of dicks in a structure fire.


Wake up to yourself Ed. You are way off the pace. Undeserved?  Olympic Sailors not the worlds best? Give US a fucking break! That's the biggest load of shit you have ever typed and that is REALLY saying something!
 
Here's just a few names ( I know there's plenty more) that stepped out of the London Olympics into DOMINANT roles in the 34th  A-Cup. Slingsby, Ainslie, Outteridge, Percy, Simpson.... ever heard of them? You might think Olympic sailors are shite, but the entire world disagrees with you. All successful Olympic sailors are in high demand across all other classes in this sport.
 
I'd suggest you should have a good look at who the US nominated first. A pair of fucking kiteboarders!!! I am a kiteboarder myself I would mention those two in the same sentence as ANY of the other nominees. The sport is in it's absolute infancy. I don't see any kite boarders in high demand in any other form of sailing.  How the fuck did Heinken get nominated over Bora?
 
Matty Belcher has been overlooked several times despite dominating the class for about the last 6 years. Currently on 17 wins in a row. Additionally he is the best ambassador for the sport that I have ever seen, constantly making appearances at local clubs and talking to the kids. I can't comment on the girls but I'm quite sure they are just as deserving.
 
I can only guess that you wrote that headline grabbing piece of inflammatory trash merely to gain web traffic.
 
Abbo,
 
Out.


And you guys keep putting money in the Ed's Pockets.

#32 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 04:33 AM

The winners are very good sailors, but Paul Larsen added close to 10 knots to the world speed record over 500m. 10 knots!!! How amazing is that?

 

The 470s would probably disintegrate if they got up to speeds that are commonplace in other boats.

 

Giving both awards to 470 sailors is like giving a motor racing award to the winner in the Toyota Corolla stock-car division. Sure they are very good at their discipline, but it certainly isn't the pinnacle of the sport.

So by your theory, Richard Nobel who set the current world land speed record in 1997 in a rocket powered 'car' was a better driver than Jacques Villeneuve who won the F1 championship in the same year? No disrespect to Paul Larsen but his record will be beaten one day however Matt will forever be an Olympic Gold Medallist and Multiple world Champion. You are completely wrong , a world title and Olympic Gold medal ARE the pinnacle of the sport. Setting speed records is just a sideshow.



#33 Mexican

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 04:34 AM

The Heinekens were only nominated to placate the kite boarding community after shafting them for a spot at the Olympics in Brazil 2016.

 

Lots of consensus on the other points of discussion:

  • FP article is a dick move
  • all nominated were deserved
  • ISAF has a hard on for those who sail in their events

Rather than peddling hate, how about we see a well written article with the "SA Awards for 2013". Happy to hear a different point of view rather than the constant spewing of bile...

 

Mex



#34 DRIFTW00D

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 05:05 AM



#35 evenflow

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 05:11 AM

I don't wear a watch... haven't in 20+ years.  Why not have a SA sailor (M&F) of the year award, picked by us?



#36 auscat

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 10:04 AM

The winners are very good sailors, but Paul Larsen added close to 10 knots to the world speed record over 500m. 10 knots!!! How amazing is that?

 

The 470s would probably disintegrate if they got up to speeds that are commonplace in other boats.

 

Giving both awards to 470 sailors is like giving a motor racing award to the winner in the Toyota Corolla stock-car division. Sure they are very good at their discipline, but it certainly isn't the pinnacle of the sport.

So by your theory, Richard Nobel who set the current world land speed record in 1997 in a rocket powered 'car' was a better driver than Jacques Villeneuve who won the F1 championship in the same year? No disrespect to Paul Larsen but his record will be beaten one day however Matt will forever be an Olympic Gold Medallist and Multiple world Champion. You are completely wrong , a world title and Olympic Gold medal ARE the pinnacle of the sport. Setting speed records is just a sideshow.

Respectfully disagree LB.

Once again well done to Matt any Aussie win is a good win.

 

Some points from Wiki.

 

470 designed in1963.

Olympic class 1976.

 

First official speed record 1972 -26.3knts

                                          1977-34.4knts

Now stands at       65.45 knts.

 

Official speed sailing records have around longer than the 470 has been in the Olympics and yet the list of gold medal winners for 470's is much longer than the list of speed sailing record holders. 

 

I wonder if you asked a class of school kids "Would rather a gold medal in the Olympics,or be the fastest man in the world on water"? 

After all there is a new gold medal every 4 yrs and the gaps between fastest have been up to 11yrs with changes of only about 2knts until Larso smashed it by 10 knts.

 

To recognise one person as best in our sport is a big call.To be nominated is reward enough for most.I suspect a true champion would be embarresed to be raised above his peers in such a diverse sport as the one we all love and feel so passionate about. 


Edited by auscat, 13 November 2013 - 10:17 AM.


#37 auscat

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 10:17 AM

OOps 13 speed record holders,10 470 skippers and 9 crew.Malcolm Page only 2 time gold medal winner and he was crew.Kinda muddies the waters even more. 



#38 fireball

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 10:28 AM

The winners are very good sailors, but Paul Larsen added close to 10 knots to the world speed record over 500m. 10 knots!!! How amazing is that?
 
The 470s would probably disintegrate if they got up to speeds that are commonplace in other boats.
 
Giving both awards to 470 sailors is like giving a motor racing award to the winner in the Toyota Corolla stock-car division. Sure they are very good at their discipline, but it certainly isn't the pinnacle of the sport.

So by your theory, Richard Nobel who set the current world land speed record in 1997 in a rocket powered 'car' was a better driver than Jacques Villeneuve who won the F1 championship in the same year? No disrespect to Paul Larsen but his record will be beaten one day however Matt will forever be an Olympic Gold Medallist and Multiple world Champion. You are completely wrong , a world title and Olympic Gold medal ARE the pinnacle of the sport. Setting speed records is just a sideshow.[/size]

Each to their own, but I don't see it that way. Whoever won a bunch of regattas in a boring little dinghy will be soon forgotten, but the increase in speed from Sailrocket 2 will be remembered. It's a different concept to previous record holders and the starting point for a whole new type of sailing.

In 2013 we had the AC in foiling catamarans doing over 40 knots and what is essentially a glider with a foil in the water doing over 65 knots. And the thing that most impressed the judges was sailing a dinky little boat that should have been thrown out of the Olympics decades ago.

#39 dogwatch

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 10:54 AM

^

 

It isn't "ISAF Designer of the Year".



#40 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 12:43 PM

^

 

It isn't "ISAF Designer of the Year".

 

 

 

 

notes:

 

-Mal/Matt did NOT win an Olympics this year.

-Going by the numbers, ISAF places almost zero weight on anything French.

-Going by the numbers, ISAF dinghy classes are, by far, the most important thing to ISAF.   This has nothing to do with sailing, and everything to do with funding and sponsorship.  And it seems they only get away with it because it is so fucking blatant.

 

There's nothing wrong with that at all, but it ain't 'World Sailor of the Year' then.  

 

It is 'World ISAF Dinghy Class Sailor Of The Year Or Someone Else If They Did Something That Embarrasses Us Into Not Giving It To A Dinghy Sailor.'



#41 pulpit

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:05 PM

Mat Belcher has won 17 470 regatta's in a row, 4 worlds in a row, the last Olympics... that's pretty incredible, and very impressive. The people calling Mat Belcher a kid sailing around in a 470 must be having a joke.
 
Francois Gabart's (not Gabard as the fp article would indicate...) achievement is also mighty impressive, as is Paul Larsen, but since they have only 1 big achievement it is always going to be hard for them to get up over someone like Belcher who has for a few years dominated one of the most competitive fleets in world sailing, and has the opportunity to win several big regattas in one year.
 
At the end of the day, it doesn't mean a lot, and there is no doubt that the winners are great sailors.


First of all well done Matt you have worked very hard for this

Now for those of you that don't know Matt and think he was the wrong choice, think again
Matt has worked hard to getting were he is now in sailing. Thing is it's what he does off the water that makes him a even greater sailor. Matt is from my home club of Southport Yacht Club here in Queensland. When he's not competing or training for him self he is down at our club or any other club he's at giving his time to the kids, not just talking to then, and he will stay and talk to anyone and every one who wants to talk to him but out on the water training the kids as well. Matt is also known to jump in a club Opitimist and spend time sailing with the kids. The kids just love it when he is around and love to give him a hard time when they beat him in the practice racing as well.

Matt gives his time for free to help the sport grow and gives the kids something to aim and dream for. So it's not just his own sailing that makes him a great sailor it's the hole package of on and off the water that makes him the sailor of the year.

Pulpit

#42 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:12 PM

No one has said Matt is anything but an incredible person.  Perhaps he should have been picked over Ben Ainslie last year.



#43 dogwatch

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:20 PM

^

 

It isn't "ISAF Designer of the Year".


-Going by the numbers, ISAF dinghy classes are, by far, the most important thing to ISAF.   This has nothing to do with sailing, and everything to do with funding and sponsorship. 

 

Bah humbug. Dinghy sailing is the core of the participation sport of sailing in most countries. USA being the conspicuous exception.



#44 doghouse

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 01:39 PM

50 too late...

what's a 470?

lol.



#45 sailing man

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:33 PM

^

 

It isn't "ISAF Designer of the Year".

 

 

 

 

notes:

 

-Mal/Matt did NOT win an Olympics this year.

-Going by the numbers, ISAF places almost zero weight on anything French.

-Going by the numbers, ISAF dinghy classes are, by far, the most important thing to ISAF.   This has nothing to do with sailing, and everything to do with funding and sponsorship.  And it seems they only get away with it because it is so fucking blatant.

 

There's nothing wrong with that at all, but it ain't 'World Sailor of the Year' then.  

 

It is 'World ISAF Dinghy Class Sailor Of The Year Or Someone Else If They Did Something That Embarrasses Us Into Not Giving It To A Dinghy Sailor.'

I agree 100%. This is why I can't take the award seriously. Ask yourself, how many French have ever won this award? Cammas, Mich, Loick Peyron or Joyon. I forgot Joyon now has all the major Ocean OutRight Records right now. That has never been done before. 

You can not seriously believe this award is about sailing achievement. This award is about Olympic Class achievement. 



#46 JimC

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:56 PM

what's a 470?

 

Its a boat that's sailed in more of the voting delegates countries than anything most of the other sailors up for it were in.

 

What the Sailrocket team did in terms of sustained effort, and committment over many years as well as the end result was absobloodylutely outstanding, but I bet for most countries its not even on the radar. 

 

We are, after all talking about world sailor of the year,not "tiny handful of affluent nations" sailor of the year.



#47 JohnMB

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 04:01 PM

Bah humbug. Dinghy sailing is the core of the participation sport of sailing in most countries. USA being the conspicuous exception.

 

 

THIS

 

Its a boat that's sailed in more of the voting delegates countries than anything most of the other sailors up for it were in.

and this

 

What type of boat would you expect ISAF to be most focused on?

Why is anyone surprised that the ISAF sailor of the year is someone who sails and ISAF international class at the top level?



#48 gmoney

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 04:19 PM

Belcher has won 17 regattas in a row with two different crews in one of the most competitive classes in the world.  Enough said!



#49 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 05:19 PM

We are, after all talking about world sailor of the year,not "tiny handful of affluent nations" sailor of the year.

'tiny handful of classes that ISAF desperately need to promote to keep their paymasters happy" sailor of the year.



#50 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 05:27 PM

Why is anyone surprised that the ISAF sailor of the year is someone who sails and ISAF international class at the top level?

It's not about an ISAF international class.  It's about an ISAF Sailing World Cup™ class in a year where ISAF is doing whatever they can to see a project succeed that they have spent millions and millions on. 

 

In 20 years of the award, 40 winners have been picked.  More, actually (because of crew), but we'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  I believe 28 of the winners have been selected for their performance in an Olympic Class, but less than half of those were for actual Olympic results.  Almost invariably, the ISAF chooses two Olympians in every Olympic year regardless of whatever else happens, but for the deck to be so obviously stacked against non-Olympic Class sailors makes no sense unless you change the title of the award.



#51 JimC

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 05:35 PM

'tiny handful of classes that ISAF desperately need to promote to keep their paymasters happy" sailor of the year.

 

 
Take the blinkers off. The US sailing scene isn't the whole world, its just a small part of it and a damn peculiar and aberrant one at that.


#52 Corley_

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:19 PM

I prefer Paul's diplomatic response to the honor of being nominated.  No demands just a thank you for being given the nod, a great ambassador for his sponsors and the speed sailing fraternity.  Matt was a worthy winner of the award and has worked hard for his success.



#53 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:05 PM

Why is anyone surprised that the ISAF sailor of the year is someone who sails and ISAF international class at the top level?

It's not about an ISAF international class.  It's about an ISAF Sailing World Cup™ class in a year where ISAF is doing whatever they can to see a project succeed that they have spent millions and millions on. 
 
In 20 years of the award, 40 winners have been picked.  More, actually (because of crew), but we'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  I believe 28 of the winners have been selected for their performance in an Olympic Class, but less than half of those were for actual Olympic results.  Almost invariably, the ISAF chooses two Olympians in every Olympic year regardless of whatever else happens, but for the deck to be so obviously stacked against non-Olympic Class sailors makes no sense unless you change the title of the award.

Perhaps Alan that is because this award sets out to recognise who the greatest technical sailors are. Not best offshore seaman, not best single hander in a tiny fleet, not best designer of a sideshow like speed sailing but the best technical and tactical sailor. And the Oylmpic classes are where that is at. Just like here mate it is ISAF's sandpit!

#54 Bill R

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:13 PM

I would be interested to see what the actual selection criteria was for this award. The title is a bit wishy washy, the judges must have been given some guide lines, to help them decide.  so before spouting off and slamming ISAF for their decisions shouldn't we find out why they made those decisions?.



#55 PeterHuston

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:14 PM

 

Why is anyone surprised that the ISAF sailor of the year is someone who sails and ISAF international class at the top level?

It's not about an ISAF international class.  It's about an ISAF Sailing World Cup™ class in a year where ISAF is doing whatever they can to see a project succeed that they have spent millions and millions on. 
 
In 20 years of the award, 40 winners have been picked.  More, actually (because of crew), but we'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  I believe 28 of the winners have been selected for their performance in an Olympic Class, but less than half of those were for actual Olympic results.  Almost invariably, the ISAF chooses two Olympians in every Olympic year regardless of whatever else happens, but for the deck to be so obviously stacked against non-Olympic Class sailors makes no sense unless you change the title of the award.

Perhaps Alan that is because this award sets out to recognise who the greatest technical sailors are. Not best offshore seaman, not best single hander in a tiny fleet, not best designer of a sideshow like speed sailing but the best technical and tactical sailor. And the Oylmpic classes are where that is at. Just like here mate it is ISAF's sandpit!

 

What exactly is a "technical sailor".  Technically, any boat with an abundance of technology would be a technical boat, and require a technical sailor.



#56 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:22 PM

OOps 13 speed record holders,10 470 skippers and 9 crew.Malcolm Page only 2 time gold medal winner and he was crew.Kinda muddies the waters even more. 

'Only a two time gold medal winner?' What the fuck? Mate I read the Australian every morning. I waste far to much time here on SA.( no I don't read the front page) and spend my life hanging around yacht clubs from Airlie beach to Hobart. And until I opened this thread I had never heard of Paul before. Never. That's not to say what he has achieved isn't special, it just isn't very important to the sailing or general public. And if someone can break 17 records by sailing 500 meters, well that says something about those records. More about his ability as a designer than a 'Sailor' how's this for a thought. Reverse the roles. Matt could have driven that thing and set those records as well i think. the skill is in the design not the driving. Do you think Paul could have won 4 world titles and won the Gold medal?

#57 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 09:21 PM

 

 

Why is anyone surprised that the ISAF sailor of the year is someone who sails and ISAF international class at the top level?

It's not about an ISAF international class.  It's about an ISAF Sailing World Cup™ class in a year where ISAF is doing whatever they can to see a project succeed that they have spent millions and millions on. 
 
In 20 years of the award, 40 winners have been picked.  More, actually (because of crew), but we'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  I believe 28 of the winners have been selected for their performance in an Olympic Class, but less than half of those were for actual Olympic results.  Almost invariably, the ISAF chooses two Olympians in every Olympic year regardless of whatever else happens, but for the deck to be so obviously stacked against non-Olympic Class sailors makes no sense unless you change the title of the award.

Perhaps Alan that is because this award sets out to recognise who the greatest technical sailors are. Not best offshore seaman, not best single hander in a tiny fleet, not best designer of a sideshow like speed sailing but the best technical and tactical sailor. And the Oylmpic classes are where that is at. Just like here mate it is ISAF's sandpit!

 

What exactly is a "technical sailor".  Technically, any boat with an abundance of technology would be a technical boat, and require a technical sailor.

Are you trolling or are you just plain stupid? Get back to me Pete and then I will know how to phrase my answer.



#58 sumpin

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:20 AM

all around..bora



#59 JohnMB

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:08 PM

all around..bora

 

Sure as well as being a great sailor  he's smart enough to understand why his major achievement would qualify him well for next years award  rather than this years,.

 

You did see his post on this thread right?



#60 mustang__1

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:13 PM

this really just another example of how ISAF wants to take over the world with dinghies. (sic)



#61 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:07 PM

OOps 13 speed record holders,10 470 skippers and 9 crew.Malcolm Page only 2 time gold medal winner and he was crew.Kinda muddies the waters even more. 

'Only a two time gold medal winner?' What the fuck? Mate I read the Australian every morning. I waste far to much time here on SA.( no I don't read the front page) and spend my life hanging around yacht clubs from Airlie beach to Hobart. And until I opened this thread I had never heard of Paul before. Never. That's not to say what he has achieved isn't special, it just isn't very important to the sailing or general public. And if someone can break 17 records by sailing 500 meters, well that says something about those records. More about his ability as a designer than a 'Sailor' how's this for a thought. Reverse the roles. Matt could have driven that thing and set those records as well i think. the skill is in the design not the driving. Do you think Paul could have won 4 world titles and won the Gold medal?

Larsen's accomplishment hit the mainstream news in nations all over the world, including every sailing publication but quite a few non-sailing publications with millions of readers/audience; something that no I-470 accomplishment has ever done in the history of sailing. Not that it has anything to do with the ISAF WORLD CUP CLASS ROLEX WORLD SAILOR OF THE YEAR award.



#62 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:14 PM

'tiny handful of classes that ISAF desperately need to promote to keep their paymasters happy" sailor of the year.

 

 
Take the blinkers off. The US sailing scene isn't the whole world, its just a small part of it and a damn peculiar and aberrant one at that.

I think you're wrong about that (and I thought it was 'blinders', not 'blinkers' until I just looked it up and found yet another disparity between our tongues).

 

In my own investigations of Australia, NZ, UK, France, Sweden, Holland, Germany, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Canada, Mexico, Spain, Portugal and a few others, it seems the same problems in the US are prevalent in the majority of other member countries, and similar trends are present in many of them.  

 

I wouldn't mind ISAF spending time and money promoting dinghy sailing, but they don't do that at all.  What ISAF does is promote the things that deliver them cash, just like any other for-profit company.



#63 Flaming

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:25 PM

Surely judging the merits of such extremely diverse disciplines as speed sailing, ocean racing, kitesurfing, match racing and dinghy sailing is a thankless task anyway.  I can entirely understand the decision to award the 470 sailors the top prize, as it's clearly an incredible achievement.

 

But this negativity is really pointless.  If you disagree with ISAF, fine, but why not put it to the vote here?  

 

Chuck a few more nominations into the pot, then let's have a vote for the SA world sailor of the year.  



#64 Big Show

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:29 PM

Chuck a few more nominations into the pot, then let's have a vote for the SA world sailor of the year.  

17 in a row is unbelievable - in an Olympic class no less - but my nomination goes to Franck Cammas for kicking butt in everything he's touched. He's worked everyone he's faced offshore, inshore, big, small, in monos or multis.

 

No offence to the others mentioned above but for SA sailor this slippery French badass fits the bill! 



#65 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:48 PM

Well if column inches is the way to select this then Larry Ellison or the Skipper of the Bounty should have won....



#66 PeterHuston

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:01 PM

 

 

 

Why is anyone surprised that the ISAF sailor of the year is someone who sails and ISAF international class at the top level?

It's not about an ISAF international class.  It's about an ISAF Sailing World Cup™ class in a year where ISAF is doing whatever they can to see a project succeed that they have spent millions and millions on. 
 
In 20 years of the award, 40 winners have been picked.  More, actually (because of crew), but we'll give them the benefit of the doubt.  I believe 28 of the winners have been selected for their performance in an Olympic Class, but less than half of those were for actual Olympic results.  Almost invariably, the ISAF chooses two Olympians in every Olympic year regardless of whatever else happens, but for the deck to be so obviously stacked against non-Olympic Class sailors makes no sense unless you change the title of the award.

Perhaps Alan that is because this award sets out to recognise who the greatest technical sailors are. Not best offshore seaman, not best single hander in a tiny fleet, not best designer of a sideshow like speed sailing but the best technical and tactical sailor. And the Oylmpic classes are where that is at. Just like here mate it is ISAF's sandpit!

 

What exactly is a "technical sailor".  Technically, any boat with an abundance of technology would be a technical boat, and require a technical sailor.

Are you trolling or are you just plain stupid? Get back to me Pete and then I will know how to phrase my answer.

 

Why does sailing a small boat on a short case make a 470 any more "technical" than sailing something bigger on a different course?

 

Tell me where your definition of "technical sailor" is the accepted standard around the world, and then get back to me.



#67 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:33 PM

If you are looking for the best technical sailor, I imagine you'd want to look at the sailor who has shown mastery of the 'technique' of sailing, the root of the word 'technical.'  In other words, across multiple platforms, where more 'technique' is required than in just one class.

 

Frankly I do not understand why winning the same class over and over compares to a discipline that is more all-encompassing and changeable.  To me it seems it would get easier every year you are in the class, especially an Olympic class with the high turnover rate that entails, until you are physically more challenged than the young ones; i.e. 35 years old or so, like most sports.



#68 fireball

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 08:30 PM

The Aussie 470 success is based on them hiring a master coach who can teach the intricacies of the boat to his charges. Since then Tom King, Nathan Wilmot and now Mathew Belcher have all won gold medals and dominated the class.

Maybe they should give the award to the coach. He must be one of the best technical sailors in the world.

#69 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 08:47 PM

Yep you are right al. The best technique at the highest level. The Olympic Games and multiple world championships. Why are you clowns so committed to belittling the achievements of not just such a great athlete, but such a great guy like Matt? I agree that what Paul has achieved in setting those speed records is also magnificent, but sailing in a straight line for 500 mts kinda makes a mockery of what you have just said about multiple platforms mate. Look there is no right answer to who was the best sailor last year, but why attack the achievements of a great sailor because you guys want to swing a punch at ISAF? The USA Olympic program is a joke at present, but rather than just admit it and do something positive towards fixing it, you dismiss the Games as irrelevant. Many great sailors use there Olympic success as a platform to go on to other things. If you don't respect what it takes to, and mean to win a gold medal then you are clueless. Or Americian. Probably comes from a history of calling your domestic sporting competitions 'World series's '

#70 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 08:50 PM

The Aussie 470 success is based on them hiring a master coach who can teach the intricacies of the boat to his charges. Since then Tom King, Nathan Wilmot and now Mathew Belcher have all won gold medals and dominated the class.
Maybe they should give the award to the coach. He must be one of the best technical sailors in the world.


The same reason that every American pro cyclist doesn't give their trophy to their dealer!

#71 mustang__1

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:15 AM

Yep you are right al. The best technique at the highest level. The Olympic Games and multiple world championships. Why are you clowns so committed to belittling the achievements of not just such a great athlete, but such a great guy like Matt? I agree that what Paul has achieved in setting those speed records is also magnificent, but sailing in a straight line for 500 mts kinda makes a mockery of what you have just said about multiple platforms mate. Look there is no right answer to who was the best sailor last year, but why attack the achievements of a great sailor because you guys want to swing a punch at ISAF? The USA Olympic program is a joke at present, but rather than just admit it and do something positive towards fixing it, you dismiss the Games as irrelevant. Many great sailors use there Olympic success as a platform to go on to other things. If you don't respect what it takes to, and mean to win a gold medal then you are clueless. Or Americian. Probably comes from a history of calling your domestic sporting competitions 'World series's '

because dinghies are toys, obviously. 



#72 jfunk

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:39 AM

Well I am really upset how they named that guy from Maroon 5 the sexiest guy alive..........



#73 PeterHuston

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:46 AM

Yep you are right al. The best technique at the highest level. The Olympic Games and multiple world championships. Why are you clowns so committed to belittling the achievements of not just such a great athlete, but such a great guy like Matt? I agree that what Paul has achieved in setting those speed records is also magnificent, but sailing in a straight line for 500 mts kinda makes a mockery of what you have just said about multiple platforms mate. Look there is no right answer to who was the best sailor last year, but why attack the achievements of a great sailor because you guys want to swing a punch at ISAF? The USA Olympic program is a joke at present, but rather than just admit it and do something positive towards fixing it, you dismiss the Games as irrelevant. Many great sailors use there Olympic success as a platform to go on to other things. If you don't respect what it takes to, and mean to win a gold medal then you are clueless. Or Americian. Probably comes from a history of calling your domestic sporting competitions 'World series's '

 

 

Aussies have always been really good sailors.  But so too have there been great sailors from a wide variety of countries.  It wasn't so long ago that the US utterly dominated Olympic sailing.  That was during a time when actual classes mattered, not brand new manufacturer driven classes.  We had great builders, and the world's best shipwright in Carl Eichenlaub.  The world changes, things become more commercialized and professional with many countries having some sort of government funding.   US sailors, for the largest part, pay their own way.  Basically, the game is very different all over the world.

 

The 470 is an interesting survivor. Remember, it was Ullman who blitzed the fleet for three World's wins in the late 70's and early 80's.  Benjy had a good run too, and we continued to medal in the class for years.  So, it isn't like we are without success in that particular class either.  We are admitted a bit thin now  across the ranks of all Olympic sailing, and I'm not sure we will ever get back to the standard of being competitive in every class.  Olympic sailing and all the rules that come with that are just not all that interesting to most people in this country.  Every single element of your life is essentially controlled, down to when some guy can come knock on your door and have you piss in a cup.  Seriously, who wants to live that way, all the time being nothing more than an unpaid actor auditioning for a TV show?

 

There's a couple of points of interest about the Olympics in general - after the last Russian fiasco of 1980, no one in the world wanted to host the '84 Games.  The US, and LA in particular, stepped up and not only saved the Olympics, but completely reinvented the economics of it. Without what the LAOOC and Peter Uebberoth did, the Olympics would be nowhere near what they are today.  Remember to thank the US for keeping the Olympics relevant and adding the commercial component that the rest of the world enjoys so much now.   

 

The 470...that class was teetering on the edge of being pitched from the games, but Charlie Cook orchestrated the back room deal to keep the Star in a couple of quads ago, with the help of the 470 class.  Quid pro quo...and exactly how did a certain 470 guy end up on the ISAF ExCom?

 

So sure, your guy Matt is probably a great guy, and no doubt a great sailor, but this award is just a marketing thing for ISAF, Rolex and whoever wins.  Given the depth and breadth of the sport, it is otherwise meaningless to try and say one discipline is better than another.

 

Olympic sailing is not the be-all end-all of the sport.  It is tiny boats with mostly tiny people now, sailing around a tiny course.  And with all the bitching that went on in Weymouth about the location of the course to satisfy the desire of ISAF to make it spectator friendly, it is clear the standard of "world class conditions" for the Olympics has changed.  Very good sailors still will win, no doubt, but it is a different game than it was even in '08.

 

So...good for your guy that he won.  But is a very big world, and there's a lot of great sailors to be celebrated.  The mistake ISAF makes is not recognizing more categories of great sailors every year.   SA should have their own awards.  Imagine the bitchfest that will happen then! 



#74 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:51 AM

Nominations have also just opened for biggest dick of 2013. I have emailed the organizers a link to this thread.

#75 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:58 AM

Shit I made the above post before I read peters last post. Nominations are now closed.

#76 Abbo

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 04:09 AM

 

OOps 13 speed record holders,10 470 skippers and 9 crew.Malcolm Page only 2 time gold medal winner and he was crew.Kinda muddies the waters even more. 

'Only a two time gold medal winner?' What the fuck? Mate I read the Australian every morning. I waste far to much time here on SA.( no I don't read the front page) and spend my life hanging around yacht clubs from Airlie beach to Hobart. And until I opened this thread I had never heard of Paul before. Never. That's not to say what he has achieved isn't special, it just isn't very important to the sailing or general public. And if someone can break 17 records by sailing 500 meters, well that says something about those records. More about his ability as a designer than a 'Sailor' how's this for a thought. Reverse the roles. Matt could have driven that thing and set those records as well i think. the skill is in the design not the driving. Do you think Paul could have won 4 world titles and won the Gold medal?

Larsen's accomplishment hit the mainstream news in nations all over the world, including every sailing publication but quite a few non-sailing publications with millions of readers/audience; something that no I-470 accomplishment has ever done in the history of sailing. Not that it has anything to do with the ISAF WORLD CUP CLASS ROLEX WORLD SAILOR OF THE YEAR award.

Right so we should give out the awards based on how much press they get. Ok then, I'm going to do the next Brisbane to Gladstone on a MAC 26 with a naked Kate Upton as crew / figurehead. Don't bother entering anyone else, I've got Clean's version of World Sailor of the year in the bag!



#77 The Advocate

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 09:25 AM

 

 

OOps 13 speed record holders,10 470 skippers and 9 crew.Malcolm Page only 2 time gold medal winner and he was crew.Kinda muddies the waters even more. 

'Only a two time gold medal winner?' What the fuck? Mate I read the Australian every morning. I waste far to much time here on SA.( no I don't read the front page) and spend my life hanging around yacht clubs from Airlie beach to Hobart. And until I opened this thread I had never heard of Paul before. Never. That's not to say what he has achieved isn't special, it just isn't very important to the sailing or general public. And if someone can break 17 records by sailing 500 meters, well that says something about those records. More about his ability as a designer than a 'Sailor' how's this for a thought. Reverse the roles. Matt could have driven that thing and set those records as well i think. the skill is in the design not the driving. Do you think Paul could have won 4 world titles and won the Gold medal?

Larsen's accomplishment hit the mainstream news in nations all over the world, including every sailing publication but quite a few non-sailing publications with millions of readers/audience; something that no I-470 accomplishment has ever done in the history of sailing. Not that it has anything to do with the ISAF WORLD CUP CLASS ROLEX WORLD SAILOR OF THE YEAR award.

Right so we should give out the awards based on how much press they get. Ok then, I'm going to do the next Brisbane to Gladstone on a MAC 26 with a naked Kate Upton as crew / figurehead. Don't bother entering anyone else, I've got Clean's version of World Sailor of the year in the bag!

Need crew?



#78 shaggybaxter

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 10:58 AM

Kudos to the winners, nominees, and all the non nominees that earn the respect and admiration of us normal sailors. They're all winners in my eyes.
If SA genuinely attempted to do a world sailor of the year, I'd think seriously about putting in my hard earned for the prize.
It would be worth it just for the debate in the threads :)
SB

#79 TBone

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 12:46 PM

You are completely wrong , a world title and Olympic Gold medal ARE the pinnacle of the sport. Setting speed records is just a sideshow.[/size][/font][/color]


+1

#80 Icedtea

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 01:37 PM

There's nothing wrong with the winners- they're great sailors in their respective fields. But for Gabard not to win is a bit of a joke



#81 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 02:01 PM

Life Buoy 15, on 15 Nov 2013 - 14:40, said:
Nominations have also just opened for biggest dick of 2013. I have emailed the organizers a link to this thread.

.
.
do you mean .. bring back the 'COCK of the Harbour' trophy ?

#82 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 02:05 PM

There's nothing wrong with the winners- they're great sailors in their respective fields. But for Gabard not to win is a bit of a joke

never heard of him

#83 jfunk

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 09:57 PM

Its spread to other sports. Now they have named Usain Bolt World athlete of the year.

 

It's getting ridiculous.....



#84 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 11:12 PM

Exactly. Why would you give it to someone for just winning a few gold medals. These sort of awards should only be given to people who break speed records...wait! Oh never mind.

#85 Abbo

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 11:55 PM

Larson's speed record is nothing short of a phenomenal achievement. .... but but I did not see 80 other identical boats out there trying to beat him. Would he have still come out on top? Would Cammas beat 80 identical tri's around the world?

#86 bruno

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 03:09 AM

Here we are commenting on the opinion of someone who is so dense that his front page lead is, finally the extreme series realizes that they need more color in their commentary so lets put a chick in the booth, and what do I hear but how florianopolis is the most awesome venue for sailing with gusts ranging from 6-18 kn. and shifting all over.
Right, that is what I call great sailing conditions for an important series. I could only stand so much of that brilliance then had to mute.

#87 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 03:24 AM

Here we are commenting on the opinion of someone who is so dense that his front page lead is, finally the extreme series realizes that they need more color in their commentary so lets put a chick in the booth, and what do I hear but how florianopolis is the most awesome venue for sailing with gusts ranging from 6-18 kn. and shifting all over.
Right, that is what I call great sailing conditions for an important series. I could only stand so much of that brilliance then had to mute.

WTF are you talking about? Bit early to be on the piss mate!



#88 bruno

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 03:36 AM

Waiting for rand's footnotes to my comment

#89 doghouse

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 01:40 PM

Is it bad I don't know what Paul Larsen did?



#90 jfunk

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 09:30 AM

Is it bad I don't know what Paul Larsen did?

Yep, it was bloody awesome. Watch the video, and may genuinely be worthy of yachtsman of the year. Swap one Aussie out for another, its all good.



#91 Abbo

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:02 AM

The coolest thing about Larson for me was the fact I had long ago written him off without a snowflakes chance in hell of getting anywhere near the kite record. The way he just obliterated it is mind blowing. The video gives me chills. Best thing you will see on you tube all year guaranteed. You can hear the fear in his voice as he scorches past 50 knots and is still accelerating rapidly.

 

But without DIRECT competiton it is a technical achievement not, repeat not, a sporting achievement. If there were 50 other people out the RACING him, then you could call it a sporting achievement. The 470's regularly get 100+ boats at their worlds (127 at the last), and it is without question the most competitive two man class in the world.

 

Have a look at the VERY long list of former 470 sailors who have gone on to dominate other classes and disciplines of the sport. I would rate a 470 gold medal as one of, if not, the highest prize in our sport. Matty Belcher has already bagged one and is well on his way to another. If there is anyone more deserving it would be Pagey, his and Nathan Wilmot's crew. Check out his record. 2008 and 2012 Olympic Gold Medalist; World Champion in 2004, 2005, 2007, 2010, 2011 & 2012 (Silver 2003 & 2006, Bronze 2001); Ten time Australian Champion; Most successful sailor in 470 history. I rate him as one of the greatest yachtsman this country has ever produced and he's still very young! Slingers has had pretty good run lately too, Laser Worlds, Etchell Worlds, Gold Medal and an Americas Cup in the last 18 months.



#92 JimC

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 12:41 PM

 but but I did not see 80 other identical boats out there trying to beat him

You wouldn't, because there are not 80 - or even 8 - other teams in the world remotely capable of putting in the sustained dedication, commitment, brain power, organisation and everything else it took to get that record, especially with the budget available to them. Its a mind bogglingly great achievement. After all, is something diminished or enhanced if no-one else can do it?

 

Never the less I don't see it as being the right choice for sailor of the year simply because its such an esoteric discipline practised in so few nations, and also because its the result of such a sustained effort over such a long time.

 

Its a pity there's not some kind of special award from ISAF for something like this which is such a big achievement, yet not really a very appropriate winner of sailor of the year. But without that the nomination is probably next best thing. Its also a shame that the rest of the team behind it haven't had more recognition because this effort was so much more than just the person on the tiller.

 

So, here they are

 

Paul Larsen
Malcolm Barnsley
Helena Darvelid
Chris Hornzee-Jones
Hiskia Sindimba
George Dadd
Ben Quemener
Jeff Mearing
Wang Feng
Daniel Bernasconi
Alex Adams
 


#93 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:20 PM

Exactly. Why would you give it to someone for just winning a few gold medals. These sort of awards should only be given to people who break speed records...wait! Oh never mind.

You would give it to someone who won 'a few' gold medals.  that would be one hell of an accomplishment in a single year.  :ph34r:

 

But no one won 'a few gold medals' in the qualification period for the 2013 award. 

 

No one even won a single gold medal in the qualification period.  



#94 Abbo

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:22 PM

 but but I did not see 80 other identical boats out there trying to beat him

You wouldn't, because there are not 80 - or even 8 - other teams in the world remotely capable of putting in the sustained dedication, commitment, brain power, organisation and everything else it took to get that record, especially with the budget available to them. Its a mind bogglingly great achievement. After all, is something diminished or enhanced if no-one else can do it?

 

Never the less I don't see it as being the right choice for sailor of the year simply because its such an esoteric discipline practised in so few nations, and also because its the result of such a sustained effort over such a long time.

 

Its a pity there's not some kind of special award from ISAF for something like this which is such a big achievement, yet not really a very appropriate winner of sailor of the year. But without that the nomination is probably next best thing. Its also a shame that the rest of the team behind it haven't had more recognition because this effort was so much more than just the person on the tiller.

 

So, here they are

 

Paul Larsen
Malcolm Barnsley
Helena Darvelid
Chris Hornzee-Jones
Hiskia Sindimba
George Dadd
Ben Quemener
Jeff Mearing
Wang Feng
Daniel Bernasconi
Alex Adams
 

Well said. There definitely should be a special achievement award for record breakers and the like who are out there pushing the boundaries.






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