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First Mayday Response


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#1 B.J. Porter

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 02:45 AM

Not just some clown in a Bayliner calling the USCG on Narragansett Bay with smoke coming out of his engines, we got a for real Mayday the other day.

 

Saturday afternoon we left Trinidad for Aruba.  About 11:18 p.m. on Monday night as we are sailing about 20 miles NE of Bonaire (12° 34.715N, 068° 13.732W), conditions were 22-28kts of wind from around 100°, seas 6-8 ft. and somewhat disturbed.  We were sailing along on a broad reach at 8-10 knots with reefed sails.  Then I get a Frantic "Mayday! Mayday! Mayday!" call over the radio.

 

After trying to get a response back from the guy, I finally got a burst of frantic Spanish.  I tried slow English...more Spanish.  OK...by now someone has dug up our copy of "Spanish for Cruisers" and I am able to get a few phrases like "We speak very little Spanish" on the air.  Slow pigeon English from the other boat..."No fuel!  No water!  No Food!". 

 

As I was responding and trying to raise a response we saw a boat...distance was tough to tell, but it was disappearing and reappearing.  Eventually when I asked for their position they said "You just passed us" and I knew that was the boat.  So we pulled off the preventer, turned the boat around and beat back to them.  When we arrived we lowered the sails and motored around him in the rolls and chop.  The boat was roughly 20' long, center console...sort of, there were tarps on it, with three fisherman on board.  Given the location (NE of Bonaire, nearby some of the remote Venezuelan islands) we figured they were Venezuelan.

 

It did enter in our minds that this COULD be a problem, there have been some incidents off the Venezuelan coast.  But given the relatively rough conditions boarding would be something only someone pretty desperate would try.  We fetched the machete we bought for opening coconuts up and left it in the cockpit...

 

Conversation came to it that we couldn't easily get him fuel, as we only had six gallons of gas on board in our dinghy and no good way to get any of it to him, if we could even pour or siphon some out without spilling it.  Given that they had what looked large twin outboards, the two gallons or so we might be able to get to them wouldn't get them all that far even if we could figure a way to pour it, store it, and get it to them uncontaminated.  It was rough enough that there was no way the vessels were coming together intentionally, someone was going to get damaged if we got within six to eight feet of them.

 

So they asked us to "Give us food, give us water."  Their vessel was sound and not sinking and clearly just out of fuel and they did not ask to abandon it or get rescued.

 

So we scrounged up some fresh water and what food we could find that was in cans with pull tabs (there was no way we were going to be able to have a coherent discussion about can openers!) or in packages that might survive a dunking and put it in a water proof container.  We tied this whole mess to an orange PFD and an inflated white trash bag (for visibility and more floatation).  When then dropped it in the water upwind of them, at which point we very quickly figured out that their boat was drifting a hell of a lot faster than a little package of food and water...oops.  So we circled around a few times and fished it out then tried again from down wind which worked much better since they drifted down on it quickly.  They recovered it on the first try and thanked us on the VHF.

 

At this point we felt there was little we could do beyond relay their position to someone else who might be able to get them.  They didn't want off their boat, and no one else had heard their call in the area.  If we stayed all we could do was circle them and try to call someone with our higher VHF or SSB.  So we talked to them and they asked us to relay their position to someone, and we headed back to our regular course.

 

I wasn't completely sure this was the right thing to do, but I couldn't see what we would do hanging around them either, except stay on station in case their boat started to sink (unlikely) and they needed to be pulled off.  But we could do nothing more to affect their rescue, except try to get in touch with authorities on their behalf which wasn't working too well with VHF from this area.  Wind and currents were both pushing them West, towards Curacao and Aruba.

 

I spent the next hour and a half trying to get in touch with ANYONE in authority.  At one point I hailed "Coast Guard" on 16 and received a scratchy, inaudible but lengthy reply which made it clear the recipient could hear and understand me even if I could not hear them.  So I relayed all the information I could; our boa name, last position of the other boat, name of the captain (we could not get him to understand that we wanted his BOAT name, or it didn't have one), number of people, their problems, our actions, etc.  I was trying VHF 16, and all of the SSB Emergency Hailing frequencies.

 

Nothing.  Not a whisper of a response.  I even went so far as to send Winlink e-mail messages to a bunch of people I knew, on the off chance that they might be awake still and able to at least forward the info to the USCG who would know how to contact the proper authorities in Venezuela/Bonaire/Curacao.  Alternatively I was contemplating breaking into some yammering hams and asking them to do the same for me, but we got a hail back before I needed to try that.

 

Eventually I got a scratchy hail.  Turns it out was from a freighter named Malmo about eight miles away from us; he could hear me but I could barely make him out but he'd heard my boat name and that we'd helped a boat in distress.  He was able to relay to Curacao authorities the position and situation, and speak with me to clear up the details.  And his course was going to take him right back through where we left the boat, so I think Curacao asked him to check in on them.  I don't know where it went from there, as we were passing out of VHF range and could not follow the conversations after that.  The last thing we hear was that Malmo had "Made contact with a boat with Spanish guys they could not understand" which sounded a lot like our fisherman.

 

I am still second guessing myself on my actions.  Questions and thoughts for discussion...

 

1) Should I have stayed on station?  There was no immediate or even short term risk of life or injury to the fisherman, they were out of fuel in an area with reasonable shipping traffic and not insanely far from shore and now had some food and water.  Could I have accomplished anything at all by continuing to circle or drifting with him all night?  Eventually we would have raised Malmo as she came through, but I couldn't know that at the time.

 

2) SSB/VHF  - OK, I'm going to look into Sat Phones now.  This was a real eye opener for me that they really can be quite useless as no one seems to answer the damned things.  Or no one can hear my SSB, though I talked to a guy in Moscow with it a few months ago.  Two minutes on a Sat phone and I could have reached the USCG or local authorities if I had a number to call.

 

3) On board procedures.  We are still more reliant on me than we should be - while at the helm I can't operate the SSB, but I'm the only one that knows the detailed operations of it.  No one was comfortable taking the helm in close quarters with another boat in 25+ knots of breeze in 6-8'+ seas.  My wife went to sleep reading "The Guide to SSB for Idi-yachts" tonight; we've decided that EVERYONE needs to know how to operate it and we will be doing some training and practice.

 

4) The other discussion this brought up with was quick accessibility to food and water if we had to ditch - based on my wife's experience trying to gather food and water in a pitching seaway.  Yes, there is a ditch bag with a PLB, VHF, GPS, Flares, food rations, some water, hand pumped watermaker, etc. etc. ready to go.  But if we have to ditch we'd also want to grab as much as we can that time and conditions permit.  And if you open a cabinet to grab some canned goods and everything comes piling out on you, or you need to dig three layers deep under the floorboards...this could be problematic.  We realized that we had two types of emergency water - the stuff deep in the boat in case the water maker pukes, and the regular drinking bottles in the fridge; 10L or so of water we can grab quickly and toss in the life raft.  And some discussions about what to grab...bags of salted snack peanuts for example should never end up in the life raft!

 

 

So, that's the story with my concerns and misgivings and thoughts.  Love to hear what others would have done.



#2 NoStrings

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:06 AM

BJ, when you get towards Mexico you're going to run into a bunch of boats with kids aboard. Teach your pair radio discipline then turn them loose so they can talk to the friends they make.

#3 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:13 AM

BJ - If they're not in imminent danger of tragedy - (sinking) you don't have a maritime obligation of ANYTHING!!!!!. 

 

That said - you point some points in the Karma bank w/what y'all did.  Good onya sir! 



#4 Py26129

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:21 AM

Maybe a stupid question but could you have towed them somewhere?

#5 Balder

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:26 AM

It's great that you were in a position to lend some help to them at all. Heck, there are ppl that would just not even go out when it was like that. It shows you are a confident, competent, and well prepared sailor to be able to go to someone's aid at that time.

 

That said, I think I would have been VERY hesitant to leave them. Even only 20 miles from shore, there is still a lot of water to cover for a search. What if the weather pipes up?

 

If they didn't want taken off (which has it's own dangers), what about a tow? An improvised bridal and a long tow line would be required of course. And in those conditions you would need a long, and strong, line to make it even remotely possible. You could get them the end of the tow line by the same method you sent over the fresh water. Then of course you would have to consider speed n fuel consumption - could you get them anywhere helpful even if they were under tow? What direction could you even tow them in?

 

We stood by a dismasted 38' boat for almost an hour during Southern Straits 2010. If I remember there was a line tangled around the prop also, or some propulsion failure. The wind and seas had gone down a bit, it was gusting 40-45 kts and seas were about 10-12 feet at that moment. We just stood by in case they foundered or someone got tossed overboard we could attempt a recovery. We couldnt get anywhere near them (rigging in the water) and towing in those conditions with a similar size sailboat was unthinkable. 

 

We were in contact with the Coasties who were on their way at that moment. That fact makes it a major game changer from the situation you were in.

 

Here is a newscast with some video shot from a ferry that came to 'block the wind' (yeah right). The story is the wrong story for the footage. They are talking about Clints boat that sunk and he was in the water and went to the hospital with hypothermia. The video is of the dismasted 38ft Dufour 'Radiance' with us as the boat with the mast Beneteau First 38 "It's Magic" a couple of pics from my camera during that too. The pic that shows the bent stanchion and waves is also Radiance hiding in the troughs. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Frq7fgB5IQs

 

Very difficult choices. Can't second guess your decisions really. Even though I said I would be hesitant to leave them, obviously so were you. The fact that you had to leave the area to make contact with the outside was substantially different than our strong radio contact just a few miles from Nanaimo with boats all over the place.

 

Good on you that you helped and didn't endanger yourself either.

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#6 Balder

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 03:30 AM

oops - fixed the youtube link



#7 B.J. Porter

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:07 AM

Maybe a stupid question but could you have towed them somewhere?

 

No, not that we could figure.  Twenty miles from Bonaire's North coast, more like 25+ around the side.  40+ to Las Aves, which is a cluster of Venzeulan islands these guys might have come from.  It was quite rough and rolly, I'm not sure we had the equipment to tow them safely in those conditions.  We had plenty of fuel, basically full and capable of motoring for well over 100 hours so that was not a limiting factor.  But the conditions...it was tough maneuvering in close quarters under power.  Going like hell on a broad reach was easy...

 

The weather was not BAD, just strong breezes with built up waves with no prediction of deteriorating conditions.



#8 B.J. Porter

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:09 AM

It's great that you were in a position to lend some help to them at all. Heck, there are ppl that would just not even go out when it was like that. It shows you are a confident, competent, and well prepared sailor to be able to go to someone's aid at that time.

 

That said, I think I would have been VERY hesitant to leave them. Even only 20 miles from shore, there is still a lot of water to cover for a search. What if the weather pipes up?

 

If they didn't want taken off (which has it's own dangers), what about a tow? An improvised bridal and a long tow line would be required of course. And in those conditions you would need a long, and strong, line to make it even remotely possible. You could get them the end of the tow line by the same method you sent over the fresh water. Then of course you would have to consider speed n fuel consumption - could you get them anywhere helpful even if they were under tow? What direction could you even tow them in?

 

We stood by a dismasted 38' boat for almost an hour during Southern Straits 2010. If I remember there was a line tangled around the prop also, or some propulsion failure. The wind and seas had gone down a bit, it was gusting 40-45 kts and seas were about 10-12 feet at that moment. We just stood by in case they foundered or someone got tossed overboard we could attempt a recovery. We couldnt get anywhere near them (rigging in the water) and towing in those conditions with a similar size sailboat was unthinkable. 

 

We were in contact with the Coasties who were on their way at that moment. That fact makes it a major game changer from the situation you were in.

 

Here is a newscast with some video shot from a ferry that came to 'block the wind' (yeah right). The story is the wrong story for the footage. They are talking about Clints boat that sunk and he was in the water and went to the hospital with hypothermia. The video is of the dismasted 38ft Dufour 'Radiance' with us as the boat with the mast Beneteau First 38 "It's Magic" a couple of pics from my camera during that too. The pic that shows the bent stanchion and waves is also Radiance hiding in the troughs. http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Frq7fgB5IQs

 

Very difficult choices. Can't second guess your decisions really. Even though I said I would be hesitant to leave them, obviously so were you. The fact that you had to leave the area to make contact with the outside was substantially different than our strong radio contact just a few miles from Nanaimo with boats all over the place.

 

Good on you that you helped and didn't endanger yourself either.

 

If we could have made radio contact with our taller antenna staying on station until they got a pickup would have been a no brainer for us.

 

Plenty of Diesel on our boat, we filled up before we left Trinidad.  But I'm not so sure how the towing would have worked in those conditions for 20-25 miles.



#9 DRIFTW00D

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:35 AM

I know the feeling. Moving a 3/4 Toner motor sailing with just two of us. Came across a 20 ft power boat anchored with another small power boat close to it standing by 1 mile out. Circled them noticed the anchor was set off the back. He said he was broke down. I think I called in there position the to the CG.

The other boat seemed enough to help them maybe. So we kept going. Later the Big CG Crash Boat came flying past on wings of spray,he was trying to get us on 16. I could hear them but could not get off the helm to answer. He pulled them 15 mi back to Goderich,Ont. We could have taken them onboard and towed them in.

#10 New Morning

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:09 AM

The could have come from either Aves or Los Roques.  We spent time at both on our way to Bonaire and both have a lot of Venezuelan fisherman.

 

Regarding your questions:

 

1) not necessarily as their was not much else you could have done.  We always had a 5gal jug of gas, plus a 3gal for our outboard in case we ever needed to give someone gas (and to be our dinghy "gas station"), but we never needed it.

 

2) If I could only have one, I would ditch the SSB and get a sat phone.  We used the SSB for nets and yacht to yacht traffic where the VHF wouldn't reach, but the SSB for email, weather, etc.  Very reliable.  Only ever had a problem when in Moorea and we were ringed by 3,000ft mountains which cut down the time a sat was overhead.

 

If you do get one, take the trouble to setup a fixed external antenna with the cheapest "dock" for a semi-fixed install at the nav station.  Then bite the bullet and get a subscription, don't just buy minutes.  You'll see some deals on a block of minutes, but if you ever really need the thing, do you want to risk running out of minutes in mid-emergency, there is no way to buy more in mid-ocean.  Minutes will rollover month to month.  I got good service from Roadpost for time and Global Marine Networks for email.  There are still good deals on older handsets which will work just fine.

 

We put all the key numbers (CG SAR centers in FL and Pacific, French SAR, doctor, kids) into the speed dial buttons and labeled the phone with which speed dials were for who.

 

3) Program the important SSB frequencies into "user" channels, then it's easy to make a simple guide to use the SSB like the VHF.   My wife could flip it on, dial up the channel and participate in nets, do the roll call with Pac Seafarers, etc. You can get "cloning" s/w (and cable) for the Icom SSBs so that you can easily program the radio from your computer rather than through the front panel.

 

4) We kept a 5gal jerry jug of water at the back of the boat (stern cockpit locker) with a line on it.  Water is the most important thing to have in your raft and a jerry jug of water will more or less float.  We also packed a bunch of PowerBars into the ditch bag, but you'll die of dehydration long before you'll die of starvation.  Then we packed the removable antenna for the sat phone and a second battery that we kept charged (via discharge / charge cycle) and rotated monthly with the battery on the phone.  The first sat phone call to make in an emergency is to CG SAR with your position.  Then If you can fire up the sat phone in the raft you'll probably be rescued within 48hrs - much more important than grabbing food.

 

You did well and it was a great opportunity to try your procedures when it wasn't your own life at stake.



#11 Ajax

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:39 PM

Hey BJ,

 

I'm following your adventures as time permits. You're certainly out doing things beyond my experience, but I don't see what you could have done, if they were refusing most assistance. They asked for sustenance, and you provided. If towing was unfeasable, then you did all you could do.

 

It sounds like your message was relayed, and that authorities were made aware of their predicament.

 

You're still being smart, analyzing how you and your family function as a unit out there, and strive to make improvements. That's great. You guys are a modern, Swiss Family Robinson.  Be careful, and keep in touch.



#12 Py26129

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:46 PM

Maybe a stupid question but could you have towed them somewhere?

 

No, not that we could figure.  Twenty miles from Bonaire's North coast, more like 25+ around the side.  40+ to Las Aves, which is a cluster of Venzeulan islands these guys might have come from.  It was quite rough and rolly, I'm not sure we had the equipment to tow them safely in those conditions.  We had plenty of fuel, basically full and capable of motoring for well over 100 hours so that was not a limiting factor.  But the conditions...it was tough maneuvering in close quarters under power.  Going like hell on a broad reach was easy...

 

The weather was not BAD, just strong breezes with built up waves with no prediction of deteriorating conditions.

 

BJ

 

Thanks for the explanation.  It's easy to monday morning quarterback these events but one needs to be there, in that particular situation in order to have an informed opinion.

 

That said, It sounds like the Sat phone with list of numbers readily available might be a worthwhile addition to the equipment stable.



#13 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:52 PM

Cool stuff BJ.  Got a pic?



#14 Estar

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 05:49 PM

Hi BJ,

First, excellent you helped as you did, and also very excellent you are thinking and asking how you might have done even better. Congrats on both points.

Now on to doing better . . .

1. The story makes me think you might want to check out your VHF installation. You probably should have had very good contact with a freighter only 8nm away, and you probably should have been able to make other VHF contacts. As an aside, I don't know if it is official radio protocol, but we have twice done "mayday relay" calls because we have so e much better VHF range than most.

2. You might study up on towing procedure and options, if only in case you yourself sometime need to be towed. It probably was possible to tow them in the sort of conditions you describe. This is a complex skill, but the simple story is You need strong attachment points, two long lines with some sort of weight in between -a spare tire is ideal because it also adds some shock absorption but a decent section of chain also works, good chafe protection, and then keep everyone away from the line when it us loaded up. But . . . Perhaps neither you nor they really wanted to do it and that's fine if there were not lives at risk.

3. If you are looking at sat phones . . . Take a look at the iridium pilot. The antenna is unfortunately big, but you can mount it right on top of your radar antennae . . . Other than that it is a brilliant system.

4. And yes, think about how much spare jug weather and gas and emergency food rations you should carry . . . For your own use in emergency and for giving to others. I carry 6 spare empty fuel and 6 spare empty weather jugs in my laz . . They take up space that is too difficult to get at for storing "regular use" stuff and weight nothing (when empty). Then I fill some or all of them when we are going to very remote places for emergency use. But that said, I usually put diesel in four of the jugs and gas in only two, so I would only have 4 gas jugs (my two regular use ones plus the two extras).

#15 Harnesscreek

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:21 PM

Sounds like you did all you could. 

 

Breezy night, confused seas.  Your first priority is the safety of your crew and boat.  Fortunately you weren't put in a position where you "had" to take the fisherman on board your boat. 

 

Due to the conditions- towing wasn't an option. 

 

You could only facilitate communications- 

 

Remember ships don't get tired men do.  



#16 Bulbhunter

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:31 PM

BJ thats an adventure you won't forget!

 

Sounds like you did about all you could given the distances and conditions involved and the folks on the boat not really interested in leaving their boat. With a CG involved they have the authority to convince if you will a person to get off their boat if the conditions and distances more or less make the option a one time offer / chance to for sure get home safe vs getting lost again on the big ocean.

 

Heck even in SF bay I had a case where mid week after dark while moving a friends boat from Alameda to RYC I stumbled onto a guy on a Hobie 16 with no paddle no lights - no proper foulweather gear etc being flushed out the GG with no wind. I had to detour to him I was on the only boat out there. He was clearly cold and tired of hand paddling and loosing the battle. I asked where he was sailing out of "Berkeley boat Ramp" - Ok I'm going to give you a tow its way out of my way but no way am I leaving you out here to get flushed out the GG with no gear in the dark. He actually said no thanks! To my surprise. I pointed at the GG and said you will be on the other side of that in 45 minutes and trust me spending the night in the shipping lane on the Pacific ocean is the last place you want to be tonight. He sat there for a few minutes and then said are you sure you want to tow me all the way back to Berkeley marina? I told him look if your found dead on the Marina Headlands tomorrow morning and I did not insist on towing you I would be the worst kind of Boat operator there is.

 

I towed him back to the ramp he thanked me between his chattering teeth and I got back to the slip 3hrs later. In that case if he had said no I would have called the CG and told them they need to come convince this guy he needs a ride back to his car. LOL

 

BJ you did about all you could have done given that situation. Good work!



#17 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 06:54 PM

FYI: Ham radio would have done much better than the USCG on SSB. By a large margin. There are hundreds-thousands of hams monitoring the maritime nets on 20 meters vs. a few USCG radio operators whom I can never get on SSB without calling them on VHF first and asking them to listen for me :rolleyes:

The ham nets are usually pretty good at getting a hold of the USCG. Now one issue I really don't have an answer for is what they would do - pass it on to a local group or AMVER or ???



#18 IshmaelHatesThatDamnWhale

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 07:25 PM

I'm surprised no one has questioned what 3 "fishermen" were doing on a 20' boat in the dark with 2 large outboards, a bunch of stuff covered in tarps, and didn't want to get off...  They probably didn't want any "assistance" from the USCG or other authorities, just enough food, water, and fuel to make it to their rendezvous.  Or am I reading into this too much?

 

Regardless, given the conditions and what supplies you had to give, I think you did everything within your power to help them.



#19 Tranquilo

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 07:49 PM

Nothing of a rescue from the ABC island lately, only drug runners intercepted by the Dutchies.

 

http://masnoticia.co...ilo-di-cocaina/

 

http://www.versgeper...-kilo-coke.html

 

http://www.versgeper...lo-cocaine.html

 

Sorry, articals are in Papiamento and Dutch, photo's will have to do.



#20 B.J. Porter

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:01 PM

I'm surprised no one has questioned what 3 "fishermen" were doing on a 20' boat in the dark with 2 large outboards, a bunch of stuff covered in tarps, and didn't want to get off...  They probably didn't want any "assistance" from the USCG or other authorities, just enough food, water, and fuel to make it to their rendezvous.  Or am I reading into this too much?

 

Regardless, given the conditions and what supplies you had to give, I think you did everything within your power to help them.

 

Well they specifically requested that we keep trying to radio their position in.



#21 ssi

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:16 PM

This is a joke, right?  A 53 foot cruiser decked out to the hilt with thousands of dollars of electronics "scrounges" up some food and water for the guys?  Did you forget that 10 lbs pack of bacon you stuffed in your fridge?  You cannot pass a jug of fuel with a thin throw line?

 

Then you leave them because they are not too far from land, i.e. mere days of drift?  While you need to get a 10-page thread of advice before you go to Block Island?

 

This is a Joke, right?



#22 B.J. Porter

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:42 PM

This is a joke, right?  A 53 foot cruiser decked out to the hilt with thousands of dollars of electronics "scrounges" up some food and water for the guys?  Did you forget that 10 lbs pack of bacon you stuffed in your fridge?  You cannot pass a jug of fuel with a thin throw line?

 

Then you leave them because they are not too far from land, i.e. mere days of drift?  While you need to get a 10-page thread of advice before you go to Block Island?

 

This is a Joke, right?

 

Boy you must have some serious blue water chops if you've got more insight than guys like Estar and New Morning.  Please illuminate me, after all I am a relative newbie at this only having been cruising for a bit over a year and probably not even clocked 5,000 blue water miles since we left in July of 2012.

 

I'm sure that three guys in an open center console bacon would have LOVED a few pounds of frozen, raw bacon!  Just the thing to stave off hunger and thirst.  Why didn't I think of that?  

 

Instead my wife spent time looking around for canned foods that had pull tops because we didn't know if they had a can opener.  Silly woman, she should have sent them the bacon instead of messing around with some things in packages that would stay dry.

 

Did you read the first post at all?  We did not have a suitable jug for sending fuel even if we could have gotten some out of our dinghy tank.  I'm sure someone with your years of experience would have no problem pouring from a top-fill dinghy tank into a small jug on a pitching deck in the dark without spilling a drop.  As relative newbies we do not have these sorts of magical powers.

 

What thread about Block Island?  I missed that one...can you cite it for me?

 

Go ahead, I do await your experience in similar types of situations.  Tell me about them, and what you did and how it worked out.  I really would like to know what you see differently than some of the knowledgeable folks that have already commented in this thread.



#23 New Morning

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:18 PM

2) If I could only have one, I would ditch the SSB and get a sat phone.  We used the SSB for nets and yacht to yacht traffic where the VHF wouldn't reach, but the SSB for email, weather, etc.  Very reliable.  Only ever had a problem when in Moorea and we were ringed by 3,000ft mountains which cut down the time a sat was overhead.

 

Correction - that should have read "... sat phone for email, weather, etc.  Very reliable".  Not "...SSB for email, weather..."



#24 B.J. Porter

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 11:28 PM

FYI: Ham radio would have done much better than the USCG on SSB. By a large margin. There are hundreds-thousands of hams monitoring the maritime nets on 20 meters vs. a few USCG radio operators whom I can never get on SSB without calling them on VHF first and asking them to listen for me :rolleyes:

The ham nets are usually pretty good at getting a hold of the USCG. Now one issue I really don't have an answer for is what they would do - pass it on to a local group or AMVER or ???

 

There wasn't a soul on 14300 answering my CQ calls that night.  Of course propagation in the 20M band was crap, but I could hear people on other 20M frequencies.



#25 rantifarian

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:05 AM

SSI is a shameless troll BJ, the more people who put him on ignore the less likely he is to return to CA



#26 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:17 AM

SSI is a shameless troll BJ, the more people who put him on ignore the less likely he is to return to CA

 

Yup, that's where he is going shortly.

 

One of my of my favorite characters in fiction is Jubal Harhaw from Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land.  Harshaw, a successful and wealthy lawyer, doctor, writer, sybarite and curmudgeon always insisted on answering his own phone in spite of having three lovely and talented assistants to do it for him.  

 

....he answered his telephone himself if he happened to be at hand because each call offered odds that he could be rude to some stranger for daring to invade his privacy without cause - "cause" by Harshaw's definition.

 

Sometimes trolls are diverting...for a short while.



#27 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:01 AM

That can happen. Satphone is def the best thing. The thing about 20 meters is if it is open at all, you have an audience all over, not just the few CG stations. Speaking of which, the USCG has *changed* their radio watch freqs. Were you on the new ones?

 

I once was the only boat to answer a SSB distress call from a Grand Banks off the coast of Central America. He was running before large seas and was terrified he was going to broach and roll if he changed course. Eventually a local chimed in with "the weather is going to be like this all week, so you are going to have to deal with it".

 

 

FYI: Ham radio would have done much better than the USCG on SSB. By a large margin. There are hundreds-thousands of hams monitoring the maritime nets on 20 meters vs. a few USCG radio operators whom I can never get on SSB without calling them on VHF first and asking them to listen for me :rolleyes:

The ham nets are usually pretty good at getting a hold of the USCG. Now one issue I really don't have an answer for is what they would do - pass it on to a local group or AMVER or ???

 

There wasn't a soul on 14300 answering my CQ calls that night.  Of course propagation in the 20M band was crap, but I could hear people on other 20M frequencies.



#28 DISHONEST ASSHOLE

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:26 AM

Think id go with a Glock 9mm or Remington 870 than a coconut machete

#29 evenflow

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:47 AM

Was it a newer DSC VHF?  I'd have considered trying the distress call feature, only downside, they would have come after you (your MMSI gets sent), not the small boat. 

 

Maybe an upgrade to a commercial (Class A) DSC VHF,  a new antenna and heavy coax.  I have a Metz 47 feet up, some RG-213 and a new DSC VHF... calls 25 NM away, no problem.



#30 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:25 AM

Was it a newer DSC VHF?  I'd have considered trying the distress call feature, only downside, they would have come after you (your MMSI gets sent), not the small boat. 

 

Maybe an upgrade to a commercial (Class A) DSC VHF,  a new antenna and heavy coax.  I have a Metz 47 feet up, some RG-213 and a new DSC VHF... calls 25 NM away, no problem.

 

Its an ICOM IC-M604.  

 

Hindsight being 20/20...I should have tried turning off the OGM tricolor to see if the reception improved.

 

I've got a Shakespeare (I think 9 dBm) antenna 75 feet in the air with RG-213 cable.  They could hear me, but their answers to me were too scratchy.

 

I thought about using the DSC after the fact; too late to make a difference.



Think id go with a Glock 9mm or Remington 870 than a coconut machete

 

Well if you do that you are going to blow your coconut all to hell, get the milk all over the galley and put a hole in your boat.

 

We don't carry firearms.



#31 Estar

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:53 AM

 
Hindsight being 20/20...I should have tried turning off the OGM tricolor to see if the reception improved.
 

Yup, that might have made a big difference. I know our led masthead light was cutting our AIS range by more than half. I just got a new prototype from the mfg to test. They claim to have eliminated the rf noise, but I have not installed it yet so can't confirm it yet.

#32 evenflow

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:46 AM

For some reason I remember that LED light giving folks issues... so I found this... http://forum.ssca.or...php?f=5&t=10628 It appears early versions with older VHFs were not optimal.  I'd consider a replacement - approved by a European or American national accredation program (IMO, BSH, GL, CE).

 

I would still consider the RG-213 coax, anything thinner tends to have too much signal loss on tall masts, and those few dB are important for range... clean new connectors are a must too.  And yes, I remember why I bought the Metz, it tested better than the Shakespeare for Practical Sailor. 

 

If you are inclined add an AIS to the chartplotter (not connected or shared with the prime VHF antenna - splitters are an all too common compromise), it would let you know who to target a call or DSC message to.  Coasties have them, which lets you know where help is and when it will arrive.

 

Last point, have a check list for emergencies.  I'd put the DSC activation as a near first step in any similar emergency, since it is automated and will let you focus on the other issues.  

 

Again, it might sound like overkill to do all of these things, but it is cheaper than a sat phone and your life is worth it.  Sorry I am sounding too paternal again... and no, the SR pictured isn't the boat with the tricked out radio.



#33 Estar

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:56 AM

The dsc mayday is an interesting question. I don't think I would push the button in this situation, because I am not in distress and the dsc would tag my vessel as the one on distress. My emergency shore contact might/should get a call saying I was in distress.

#34 evenflow

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 04:12 AM

Estar... Absolutely, they'd think it was me, but I am using the logic that I'd stand by and if when I am found or contacted, I'd explain myself and get help for the one in need of rescue.  It is all about proper allocation of resources, I'd rather keep myself at the helm and focus on what I can do than keep calling unresponsive rescuers as the DSC transmits position, the MMSI, etc. without error, relentlessly.  If my wife gets called by the Coasties that I sent out a signal, so what if someone's life can be saved, I know she'd understand.  



#35 slug zitski

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 08:52 AM

Didnt read the replies.

When you come across a casualty you send a MAYDAY relay or PANPAN and log in your action.
VHF is fine...

Before you provide any assistance the casualty crew must put on life jackets..MUST

Do not proceed until they have jackets on.

Next circle the boat and inspect for any floating debris that might snag you...instruct the casualty to clean up .

If the casualty needs fuel give it to him.. Even two gallons of fuel with alow him to take control of his craft and assist you.

Fuel is transported between vessels with a heaving line . A jerry tied on and floated across. A jerry or anything passed is best enclosed in a sail bag with pfd floatation inside.

Towing a causualty is possible . Ive towed dismasted sailing yachts for long distances, complete with all their mast and sails dragging behind the boat. Slow and steady.

Be very careful if you think that the casualty must be transferred to your boat..difficult, dangerous and many times beyond your skill level. Someone may die.

If towing be sure that vhf communication is available.

And you most certainly have a responsibility to assist. If the situation is beyond your capability you stay on station until a solution is found.
The rescue authorities home in on you to assist the casualty.

i have been told by knowledgeable persons that you must never approach and render assistance to an American flag boat.

Is while performing your duty an accident happened, an American was injured, the gas you transferred was not premix, if the coffee was to hot and burned them......the American will sue you and you may loose your boat.

Beware.....

#36 Zonker

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 09:49 AM

First off good job for helping.  Don't second guess yourself too much.  If they didn't want to get off their boat (and it sounds like conditions weren't conducive to doing it safely especially at night) then what can you do?

 

Usually poor fisherman have a 55-75 HP Yamaha Enduro.  They seldom have 2.  But the serious drug runners have multiple outboards and use bigger boats than a 20' boat.

 

If I was in this situation I'd have been seriously concerned about the safety of my boat and family first.  Dark night, decent wind and seas?  It would be challenging for most sailors to assist too much.

 

1.  Would I have left?  Probably not until I was convinced that somebody in local authority knew about their situation. We could have hove to for a few hours and drifted with them until daylight and then re-assessed the situation.  With the wind at 100 deg. I'd be very worried about them missing Aruba and Curacao and then not hitting land until Panama or something.  If we drifted slower than the fishing boat we could increase sail area and catch up easily.  If we drifted faster with bare poles we could just do slow motoring to windward every hour or so to keep close to them.

 

2. Could you have towed?  Probably yes.  You've a big boat, and you probably have a 5/8 or 3/4" spare anchor rope rode.  If you have 2 sets of all chain anchor rodes then you couldn't.  In those sea conditions you want at least 300' of rope between the boat and you.  A 20' open console boat isn't that heavy and wouldn't put too much stress on your stern cleats.  It would have restricted the direction you might have been able to tow them.  It would have been wise to reef down the genoa very heavily and drop the main to keep your boat speed to say 4 knots or so.

 

3.  Water jugs handy for abandon ship.  We keep 2 x 15L (3.5 gal) jugs in the cockpit in case we have to abandon ship.  Water in an abandon ship situation will make you survive longer than anything.  And you'd be surprised how many thirsty fishing boats you might encounter in Central America.  Even in a non distress situation it's nice to have a few water bottles you can throw to another boat.

 

4.  Contact with USCG on SSB.  Not surprising.  Propagation plays a huge role. 

 

We were involved in a Mayday relay many years ago.  Boat on the rocks near Punta Mala, Panama (bad spot).  They only had a VHF.  They got a call in to a yacht in the Perlas Islands.  Who had a Ham but couldn't reach USCG.  We heard them in Mexico and called for a long time before we finally reached a USCG station in Kodiak, AK.  So a 2 boat Mayday relay.  That was challenging.  The USCG knew there were US SAR assets in Panama City but they had to go through the US embassy in Panama, and ask permission before launching a helo.  Took hours.  Finally a passing cruise ship spotted their flares and rescued the couple from the surf.  It just goes to show you even if you reach authorities it can take a long time till help gets going.

 

Here's the latest page I could find on their distress frequencies

 

http://www.navcen.us...ame=cgcommsCall

 

Happy sailing and good on you for helping.



#37 slug zitski

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 10:59 AM

All seamen should understand AMVERS

http://www.amver.com/

#38 sugarbird

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 12:35 PM

I think you did okay...always easy to imagine slightly different responses after the fact, but confronting real time unexpected situations like that is a lot different than armchair BS. That part of the ocean is chock full of funky characters and shady deals - what are "fishermen" doing there without gas, food or water in a boat with  the decks covered in tarps? My wife and I had a similar but different experience a couple of years ago off Culebra, wound up taking off two people from an overturned motorboat - subsequently dealing w/USCG, CBP & INS was pretty interesting to say the least.  Re: your questions/thoughts,

 

1. It wasn't a life threatening situation, and they declined to come off their boat. Their call, and I don't see that you needed to stay on station.

2. IMHO the more comm options available the better, adding satphone is great, but sometimes they have issues too you  know?

3. Right on the money, I've come to realize that when we're double-handing my wife needs to be reasonably competent in radio, nav, mechanicals, etc., in case I get put out of action.

4. Can't argue with the idea of putting a well thought out in advance selection of food in a ditch  bag when passage making.

 

Have a great trip, and good luck!



#39 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:26 PM

Interesting to note, yesterday a sail boat was boarded by pirates in Venezuelan waters not to far from the route we sailed.

#40 SailRacer

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:35 PM

Thought about your situation all day yeasterday. Overall you must be vigilant that bad things happen to people trying to help.  Your family's safety is paramount and should not be forgotten.

 

I think you did the right thing.

Sail safe!



#41 raddie

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:45 PM

The only thing I would have done differently is broadcast a Mayday on 14300, or wherever I heard traffic on 20 meters (maybe 40 meters at night).  I called in a Pan Pan once off Costa Rica and the seafarers net were all over it immediately, but that was during the day and they had more boat savvy than the average ham.  

 

Maybe if you had given them the gasoline they would have then used it to board you...its hard to tell fishermen from pirates, especially at night.



#42 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:15 PM

I am shocked. I am shocked you didn't stay on station until help was raised and arrived. I am shocked that some here think departing was just. I am shocked beyond words.

Let me ask you people this, trade places with these guys. Would you want the other boat to leave you to drift?

#43 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:17 PM

Just do an ALL SHIPS and explain what is going on when you get someone ;)

The dsc mayday is an interesting question. I don't think I would push the button in this situation, because I am not in distress and the dsc would tag my vessel as the one on distress. My emergency shore contact might/should get a call saying I was in distress.



#44 IStream

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:23 PM

You did the right thing. Regardless of their intentions, they declined further assistance. I'd say you could've left with a clear conscience at that but putting out a call to let others know the situation and that it might change was the cherry on top.



#45 Mark Morwood

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:33 PM

Hey BJ,

 

Sounds like you made a rational set of decisions and I wouldn't spend too much time second guessing it. I'm not sure if I would have left or not, but clearly a tough call, and I wasn't there. It is certainly an area to be cautious in.

 

We would have had the same challenge trying to provide gas for them - we don't carry much more than our immediate needs for the dinghy. We do have a 5 gallon jerry can of water relatively available for abandon ship purposes, but I had not thought of having to transfer it to others. I'm not sure of your relative velocities, but floating/drifting supplies to them sounds like a safer approach than using a heaving line and connecting the boats. Lots to can go wrong with a line between two boats moving independently.

 

Having installed both a Sat Phone and SSB before we left, I would highly recommend the Sat Phone. We do use the SSB when on passage for nets, but though I have email capability through the SSB I have only ever used it to make sure it works. For weather data and email offshore and for emergencies the Sat Phone is hard to beat if you can afford it. As others have already recommended, I would suggest spending the extra to get a dock with an antenna, and I have found the OCEN's wireless router that hooks directly to the phone/dock to be much more reliable than trying to use a data cable. I think you do need to subscribe to their email service to make that work, but their whole system handles dropouts etc much better than trying without.



#46 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:07 PM

I am shocked. I am shocked you didn't stay on station until help was raised and arrived. I am shocked that some here think departing was just. I am shocked beyond words.

Let me ask you people this, trade places with these guys. Would you want the other boat to leave you to drift?


Of course you are.

#47 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:08 PM

This is the new radio schedule for the USCG for your viewing pleasure.

Attached Files



#48 DISHONEST ASSHOLE

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:10 PM

Venezuela and Panama are hotbeds for Piracy. Many piracy reporting agencies include Venezuela with Somalia and West Africa now. Hopefully the Chavez social programs supported by Obama will wither and Venezuela will return to a land of free willing democracy and human rights,  enabling their citizens to prosper and forgo these desperate criminal acts against rich white people.

 

I think you did the right thing in standing off and giving some supplies, but something stinks with these guys.  20 miles is a long way off from anywhere in open water and if they were drifting at 2 knots or more in those conditions (which could  change) they could be anywhere by daylight. If I believed their story and cared enough to give them supplies I would care enough to heave-to for a couple of hours until I knew someone had their position at least. Or I knew the 'Malmo' was on scene

 

Your comms need upgrading for sure.  VHF definitely sounds like isn't working properly. There is a lot of commercial traffic coming ad going in that Maracaibo  A_B_C area that  should be in vhf range easily  . You could have an incident yourself and need help or medical advice quickly. Sat Phones can be rented cheaply on a voyage basis. Personally I would have arms on  because they come in handy for things other than opening coconuts or shooting machete crazed bad guys. and shooting things  can be  just plain fun.Leaving thumb tacks on deck at night dosnt work anymore these guys are not barefoot and  all have Chuck Taylor Converse Allstars now. 

 

Ohh, and every ditch bag should have a bible of course 

 

Interesting to note, yesterday a sail boat was boarded by pirates in Venezuelan waters not to far from the route we sailed.



#49 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:13 PM

Geezus Kjrist people, you have an obligation to stand by until help arrived, as a sailor and as a human being.

As for them being pirates, if they were pirates, they would not have waited. With twin OBs on a 20 foot boat, they would have come right over to you as soon as they saw you. 

As for not firing off a DSC or even activating a 406. The objective is to get these people to safety as soon as possible. Having to get a further message to authorities, contacts and loved ones, BFD. They might be concerned for your well being for a day, so what? You would have made certain you did all within you power and resources to insure that help arrived for these fisherman.

This is one very ugly story. Very ugly.



#50 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:21 PM

I am shocked. I am shocked you didn't stay on station until help was raised and arrived. I am shocked that some here think departing was just. I am shocked beyond words.

Let me ask you people this, trade places with these guys. Would you want the other boat to leave you to drift?


Of course you are.

You have firmly proven why I see you the way I see you.

Say that was you and your friends or loved ones In that open boat 20-25 miles offshore. What do you think would have been the right thing to do for a boat coming upon you drifting, without food, water, fuel?

I find your actions despicable. I know you will justify your actions a hundred different ways. At the end of the day you abandoned these people with little hope of rescue. It is squarely on your shoulders. Your actions are beyond contempt. Leaving them adrift unfathomable.



#51 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:21 PM

I think this is the first time I have blocked TWO users from one thread.



#52 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:24 PM

 

I am shocked. I am shocked you didn't stay on station until help was raised and arrived. I am shocked that some here think departing was just. I am shocked beyond words.

Let me ask you people this, trade places with these guys. Would you want the other boat to leave you to drift?


Of course you are.

You have firmly proven why I see you the way I see you.

Say that was you and your friends or loved ones In that open boat 20-25 miles offshore. What do you think would have been the right thing to do for a boat coming upon you drifting, without food, water, fuel?

I find your actions despicable. I know you will justify your actions a hundred different ways. At the end of the day you abandoned these people with little hope of rescue. It is squarely on your shoulders. Your actions are beyond contempt. Leaving them adrift unfathomable.

 

Of course you do.  You have a specific agenda WRT to me, it doesn't matter the salient facts or reality.

 

They did not want off their boat.



#53 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:28 PM

Interesting to note, yesterday a sail boat was boarded by pirates in Venezuelan waters not to far from the route we sailed.

But these guys didn't demonstrate in any way they were pirates. If they were, you would be telling a very different story. They would have been on you like white on rice the second they saw you. Pirates don't ask for water, food and fuel. 

I know this from experience in the South China Sea. They may flank you for a short while, brandish weapons or they may come right at you and open fire. They would have attempted to board you once they determined you could not defend yourself or that you were not in contact with someone that could offer assistance.



#54 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:29 PM

Venezuela and Panama are hotbeds for Piracy. Many piracy reporting agencies include Venezuela with Somalia and West Africa now. Hopefully the Chavez social programs supported by Obama will wither and Venezuela will return to a land of free willing democracy and human rights,  enabling their citizens to prosper and forgo these desperate criminal acts against rich white people.

 

I think you did the right thing in standing off and giving some supplies, but something stinks with these guys.  20 miles is a long way off from anywhere in open water and if they were drifting at 2 knots or more in those conditions (which could  change) they could be anywhere by daylight. If I believed their story and cared enough to give them supplies I would care enough to heave-to for a couple of hours until I knew someone had their position at least. Or I knew the 'Malmo' was on scene

 

Your comms need upgrading for sure.  VHF definitely sounds like isn't working properly. There is a lot of commercial traffic in that area that  should be in vhf range easily  . You could have an incident yourself and need help or medical advice quickly. Sat Phones can be rented cheaply on a voyage basis. Personally I would have arms on  because they come in handy for things other than opening coconuts or shooting machete crazed bad guys. and shooting things  can be  just plain fun.Leaving thumb tacks on deck at night dosnt work anymore these guys are not barefoot and  all have Chuck Taylor Converse Allstars now. 

 

Ohh, and every ditch bag should have a bible of course 

 

Interesting to note, yesterday a sail boat was boarded by pirates in Venezuelan waters not to far from the route we sailed.

 

I think there may be some issue with the OGM tricolor I will need to experiment with.  We've not had trouble reaching people some ways away on the VHF before, but being unable to get a clear signal from a ship 8NM away is wrong - though there could be a problem on his end with transmit, my setup bears investigation.

 

Guns on board is another thread topic I don't want to drift into here!



#55 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:31 PM

I think this is the first time I have blocked TWO users from one thread.

 

Meh.  No.6's/JT's comments are as predictable as they are trite. I knew when posting this initially it would only be a matter of time before he chimed in questioning my seamanship, capabilities and ethics.  

 

I've got him on Ignore, but I knew he'd be coming to this thread, or any other thread I start to harass me eventually.  I'm not sure but I think his agenda is to intimidate me into second guessing all my posts and to therefore not do so.  It's not gonna work.



#56 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:33 PM

This is the new radio schedule for the USCG for your viewing pleasure.

 

Thanks, a laminated copy of that is going to go in the Nav Station.



#57 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:33 PM

 

 

I am shocked. I am shocked you didn't stay on station until help was raised and arrived. I am shocked that some here think departing was just. I am shocked beyond words.

Let me ask you people this, trade places with these guys. Would you want the other boat to leave you to drift?


Of course you are.

You have firmly proven why I see you the way I see you.

Say that was you and your friends or loved ones In that open boat 20-25 miles offshore. What do you think would have been the right thing to do for a boat coming upon you drifting, without food, water, fuel?

I find your actions despicable. I know you will justify your actions a hundred different ways. At the end of the day you abandoned these people with little hope of rescue. It is squarely on your shoulders. Your actions are beyond contempt. Leaving them adrift unfathomable.

 

Of course you do.  You have a specific agenda WRT to me, it doesn't matter the salient facts or reality.

 

They did not want off their boat.

This has nothing to do with my regard for you, although it does demonstrate that how I regard you is most accurate.

This has everything to do with how sailors behave when responding to people in distress. You failed these three people in their time of need. You left them in a perilous situation and went on your merry way.



#58 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:36 PM

I think this is the first time I have blocked TWO users from one thread.

 

Meh.  No.6's/JT's comments are as predictable as they are trite. I knew when posting this initially it would only be a matter of time before he chimed in questioning my seamanship, capabilities and ethics.  

 

I've got him on Ignore, but I knew he'd be coming to this thread, or any other thread I start to harass me eventually.  I'm not sure but I think his agenda is to intimidate me into second guessing all my posts and to therefore not do so.  It's not gonna work.

This isn't about you and me in the least BJ. This is about three people adrift in a boat offshore.

Spin it as you ultimately will. The fact is you left these guys out there.



#59 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:36 PM

 

 

 

I am shocked. I am shocked you didn't stay on station until help was raised and arrived. I am shocked that some here think departing was just. I am shocked beyond words.

Let me ask you people this, trade places with these guys. Would you want the other boat to leave you to drift?


Of course you are.

You have firmly proven why I see you the way I see you.

Say that was you and your friends or loved ones In that open boat 20-25 miles offshore. What do you think would have been the right thing to do for a boat coming upon you drifting, without food, water, fuel?

I find your actions despicable. I know you will justify your actions a hundred different ways. At the end of the day you abandoned these people with little hope of rescue. It is squarely on your shoulders. Your actions are beyond contempt. Leaving them adrift unfathomable.

 

Of course you do.  You have a specific agenda WRT to me, it doesn't matter the salient facts or reality.

 

They did not want off their boat.

This has nothing to do with my regard for you, although it does demonstrate that how I regard you is most accurate.

This has everything to do with how sailors behave when responding to people in distress. You failed these three people in their time of need. You left them in a perilous situation and went on your merry way.

 

What ever you say, you are always right you know.  

 

Of course, your comments do pretty much condemn just about everyone else in this thread as well, because those without an irrational hatred for me do not seem to think my actions were that awful and repugnant. 

 

Your response is completely consistent with the patterns you stalk me around the site with.



#60 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:39 PM

The only thing I would have done differently is broadcast a Mayday on 14300, or wherever I heard traffic on 20 meters (maybe 40 meters at night).  I called in a Pan Pan once off Costa Rica and the seafarers net were all over it immediately, but that was during the day and they had more boat savvy than the average ham.  

 

Maybe if you had given them the gasoline they would have then used it to board you...its hard to tell fishermen from pirates, especially at night.

 

I should have been more assertive on 14300 for sure.  Frankly, although I've gotten the ham license I've not spent a lot of time rag chewing and am still rather unsure of myself on all the proper protocols.

 

"MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY" might have done better than "CQ CQ CQ", especially with the shitty propagation that night.   But there isn't really a clear protocol that I understand on doing it that way.  My mistake there though, I should have raised an unholy racket.



#61 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:41 PM

You left them. Three souls without any hope of rescue but you... and you left them.

While you should be ashamed of yourself and your actions, you instead try and make this about some silly little spat on SA.

Your disregard for their well being is about as selfish as it gets.



#62 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 04:01 PM

You left them. Three souls without any hope of rescue but you... and you left them.

While you should be ashamed of yourself and your actions, you instead try and make this about some silly little spat on SA.

Your disregard for their well being is about as selfish as it gets.

 

I'm done with you on this thread.

 

You came on cue, said EXACTLY what I knew you would say.  You've gotten a rise out of me and made yourself look more an ass.  Mission accomplished.

 

Thanks for the help in the other thread though.



#63 Ajax

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 04:05 PM

#6:

 

What are you supposed to do, when the disabled party declines further assistance? You can't force yourself upon them. Even the USCG will not intervene if a skipper forcibly declines assistance.

 

They might stop a voyage before it begins, but that's not relevant here.

 

He also ensured that the proper authorities were informed, even though it took a while.

Something isn't passing the sniff test with these people anyway. Probably not pirates, but something doesn't quite seem on the up-and-up.

 

Edit:

 

Slug made a lot of good suggestions though-

Life jackets by assisting participants.

Ensuring the area is clear of debris.

Passing ANY amount of fuel to the disabled party, to allow them to at least control their vessel, even if it won't get them all the way home.



#64 DISHONEST ASSHOLE

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 04:15 PM

I am in the camp that I don't agree with leaving them even if they didn't seem to mind.

At least until I knew their fate was assured

Powerless open 20 foot boat offshore  in 8 foot waves and 28 knots.

Usually that ends badly.  

They could have been out for a rendevous with another boat to tranship  drugs and it went tits up.

 

I wouldnt head out offshore ( Pacific) without a sat phone especially with my family on board.

And getting the vhf and ssb serviced

And a kitchen machete in the cockpit will do you no good if there are a couple of bad guys intent on using one on you. 

Only Errol Flynn could outduel pirates 

If you are going to have deadly force on hand and a willingness to use it , may as well do it properly. 

 

Also try vhf ch 13? 



#65 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 04:19 PM

#6:

 

What are you supposed to do, when the disabled party declines further assistance? You can't force yourself upon them. Even the USCG will not intervene if a skipper forcibly declines assistance.

 

They might stop a voyage before it begins, but that's not relevant here.

 

He also ensured that the proper authorities were informed, even though it took a while.

Something isn't passing the sniff test with these people anyway. Probably not pirates, but something doesn't quite seem on the up-and-up.

 

Edit:

 

Slug made a lot of good suggestions though-

Life jackets by assisting participants.

Ensuring the area is clear of debris.

Passing ANY amount of fuel to the disabled party, to allow them to at least control their vessel, even if it won't get them all the way home.

 

 

We've been going back and forth on the Jerry Can question for a while, brought to a head in Trinidad where we refueled that way.

 

Downsides include they make it harder to get down the deck, they are ugly as hell, they might come loose, and they do wear out in the sun.

 

On the other hand it's a really quick way to get a lot of water for a ditching and we WILL be in places where dinghy fuel is hard to come by so having ten gallons - enough for 2-4 weeks of regular operation of our dinghy (depends how far we're anchored out and what is around) will make a huge difference in our experience.  Diesel, in our discussions, seems less of a priority.  Only because each 5 gallon jerry can will run the engine for about 2.5 hours MAX at cruising speeds, the engine is rated at 10L/hour - that works out to an added range of about 15NM or so per can; our primary tank holds 1000L and our secondary 300L so that does not seem like a lot extra.  On the other hand each 5 gallon jerry can will run the generator for about 20 hours which is more important for things like self steering under sail and having instruments.

 

And as this incident shows if I could have passed these guys 10 gallons of gas and water jugs easily it would have made a big difference.  Instead we were scrambling for jugs under the deck and couldn't work out a sensible and safe way to get a couple of gallons out of our dingy to them that wouldn't get contaminated with sea water or lost being spilled on the deck.

 

The experience makes you think these things through though, hindsight is 20/20.  Siphoning out of the dinghy tank would have lowered spill risks, the trick was finding something to send the fuel over in.  Emptying a water jug...leaves water in the jug to get mixed with fuel.  Maybe enough not to cause a problem.  Most likely some of the residual diesel left over in the diesel cans would NOT have hurt a two stroke, the the time those did not seem wise to use.  I assumed they had two strokes, as the Venezuelan government apparently has subsidized the fishing fleet with Enduros for years.

 

That's why I started this thread...to help me think up and learn ways to be better prepared.



#66 Bulbhunter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 05:00 PM

 

Venezuela and Panama are hotbeds for Piracy. Many piracy reporting agencies include Venezuela with Somalia and West Africa now. Hopefully the Chavez social programs supported by Obama will wither and Venezuela will return to a land of free willing democracy and human rights,  enabling their citizens to prosper and forgo these desperate criminal acts against rich white people.

 

I think you did the right thing in standing off and giving some supplies, but something stinks with these guys.  20 miles is a long way off from anywhere in open water and if they were drifting at 2 knots or more in those conditions (which could  change) they could be anywhere by daylight. If I believed their story and cared enough to give them supplies I would care enough to heave-to for a couple of hours until I knew someone had their position at least. Or I knew the 'Malmo' was on scene

 

Your comms need upgrading for sure.  VHF definitely sounds like isn't working properly. There is a lot of commercial traffic in that area that  should be in vhf range easily  . You could have an incident yourself and need help or medical advice quickly. Sat Phones can be rented cheaply on a voyage basis. Personally I would have arms on  because they come in handy for things other than opening coconuts or shooting machete crazed bad guys. and shooting things  can be  just plain fun.Leaving thumb tacks on deck at night dosnt work anymore these guys are not barefoot and  all have Chuck Taylor Converse Allstars now. 

 

Ohh, and every ditch bag should have a bible of course 

 

Interesting to note, yesterday a sail boat was boarded by pirates in Venezuelan waters not to far from the route we sailed.

 

I think there may be some issue with the OGM tricolor I will need to experiment with.  We've not had trouble reaching people some ways away on the VHF before, but being unable to get a clear signal from a ship 8NM away is wrong - though there could be a problem on his end with transmit, my setup bears investigation.

 

Guns on board is another thread topic I don't want to drift into here!

Never thought that a Light fixture could impact the radio range or options but now that you mention it the higher tech LED light fixtures do have enough complicated bits in them it makes sense that there could be a risk of one impacting VHF. Interesting thought thanks for posting.



#67 ssi

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 05:00 PM

SSI is a shameless troll BJ, the more people who put him on ignore the less likely he is to return to CA

Sure, write me off as a troll if you wish, if that makes you feel better about yourselves.  I am yet to see a jerry can that's unsuitable for being dragged between boats by a rope.  BJ says it was dark.  Guess what, if he stuck around, the sun would have inevitably come up.  It does so roughly every 12 hours.

 

But hey, it's nice that BJ gets to discuss inanely his technological gizmos onboard in this thread.  Maybe, just may be, he an infrared radar to locate those bodies. But can it be controlled via bluetooth from his iphone while on the shitter?  That's the real question we must ponder!



#68 NoStrings

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 05:21 PM

Personally, I would have stood off a mile or so until I had raised someone to get out and get them.

At 2315 local you might have been a bit late for the Maritime Mobile Network on 14300, but there are usually a few operators on the air in the eves. In any case, find an active net and:

BREAK BREAK BREAK
This is the sailing vessel Evenstar with EMERGENCY traffic.
Repeat

Wait...

Upon acknowledgement

This is the sailing vessel Evenstar repeating a MAYDAY, repeat MAYDAY at (time Zulu) from a vessel in distress at position Lat Long.
Repeat

That ought to get the conversation and rescue process started. The HAM nets respond pretty quickly, likely much more quickly than the authorities in the region.

BTW, the HAM nets will acknowledge any emergency xmission, even if you aren't licensed. Don't be shy if you need help, but don't abuse it.

#69 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 05:25 PM

#6:

 

What are you supposed to do, when the disabled party declines further assistance? You can't force yourself upon them. Even the USCG will not intervene if a skipper forcibly declines assistance.

 

They might stop a voyage before it begins, but that's not relevant here.

 

He also ensured that the proper authorities were informed, even though it took a while.

Something isn't passing the sniff test with these people anyway. Probably not pirates, but something doesn't quite seem on the up-and-up.

 

Edit:

 

Slug made a lot of good suggestions though-

Life jackets by assisting participants.

Ensuring the area is clear of debris.

Passing ANY amount of fuel to the disabled party, to allow them to at least control their vessel, even if it won't get them all the way home.

Ajax, they issued a mayday, as a sailor you are obliged to stand by. You stand by to lend assistance until some other vessel more suitable relieves you. 

As for waving you off or dismissing you. Here you have three people, without food, water, fuel, pretty much so panicked that they are calling on a VHF, issuing a mayday, do you really think they are thinking all that clearly? To stand by for say 6 hours, until you can raise help from 20-25 miles away, is that too much to do to aid someone in distress?

Try this from a different angle since a number of people here think I am being harsh, which I really am not. You come across an open boat, disable and without supplies in the open ocean. You are cautious because of piracy concerns. They do not come after you, which is what pirates do, BTW, they simply ask for water, food and fuel if you have some. Me, I do what I can, as BJ did, but I don't leave them. You know why? Because that could be me in need of help for starters. More importantly I could not just sail away without knowing they were safe. Couldn't do it. Can you just imagine how those three felt as what they saw as their only hope slips over the horizon? The devastation and fear they must have felt? And what if they didn't make it back to shore? I know those are two damn good reasons I would have stood by.

Now come 1000, if I was not able to raise help, conditions were stable, I may have decided to record their current position and headed for the nearest land trying to raise someone every 15 minutes or so. Once contact was made, situation explained, position given, I would have gone back to the distressed vessel and stood by until help arrived.



#70 NoStrings

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 05:26 PM

#6:
 
What are you supposed to do, when the disabled party declines further assistance? You can't force yourself upon them. Even the USCG will not intervene if a skipper forcibly declines assistance.
 
They might stop a voyage before it begins, but that's not relevant here.
 
He also ensured that the proper authorities were informed, even though it took a while.
Something isn't passing the sniff test with these people anyway. Probably not pirates, but something doesn't quite seem on the up-and-up.
 
Edit:
 
Slug made a lot of good suggestions though-
Life jackets by assisting participants.
Ensuring the area is clear of debris.
Passing ANY amount of fuel to the disabled party, to allow them to at least control their vessel, even if it won't get them all the way home.

 
 
We've been going back and forth on the Jerry Can question for a while, brought to a head in Trinidad where we refueled that way.
 
Downsides include they make it harder to get down the deck, they are ugly as hell, they might come loose, and they do wear out in the sun.
 
On the other hand it's a really quick way to get a lot of water for a ditching and we WILL be in places where dinghy fuel is hard to come by so having ten gallons - enough for 2-4 weeks of regular operation of our dinghy (depends how far we're anchored out and what is around) will make a huge difference in our experience.  Diesel, in our discussions, seems less of a priority.  Only because each 5 gallon jerry can will run the engine for about 2.5 hours MAX at cruising speeds, the engine is rated at 10L/hour - that works out to an added range of about 15NM or so per can; our primary tank holds 1000L and our secondary 300L so that does not seem like a lot extra.  On the other hand each 5 gallon jerry can will run the generator for about 20 hours which is more important for things like self steering under sail and having instruments.
 
And as this incident shows if I could have passed these guys 10 gallons of gas and water jugs easily it would have made a big difference.  Instead we were scrambling for jugs under the deck and couldn't work out a sensible and safe way to get a couple of gallons out of our dingy to them that wouldn't get contaminated with sea water or lost being spilled on the deck.
 
The experience makes you think these things through though, hindsight is 20/20.  Siphoning out of the dinghy tank would have lowered spill risks, the trick was finding something to send the fuel over in.  Emptying a water jug...leaves water in the jug to get mixed with fuel.  Maybe enough not to cause a problem.  Most likely some of the residual diesel left over in the diesel cans would NOT have hurt a two stroke, the the time those did not seem wise to use.  I assumed they had two strokes, as the Venezuelan government apparently has subsidized the fishing fleet with Enduros for years.
 
That's why I started this thread...to help me think up and learn ways to be better prepared.

You can easily siphon the fuel out of the tank using the fuel line. Just squeeze the bloody bulb a few times and you're off and running. I refueled my boat all the way home from HI using a squeeze bulb and fuel hose.

#71 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 05:36 PM

You left them. Three souls without any hope of rescue but you... and you left them.

While you should be ashamed of yourself and your actions, you instead try and make this about some silly little spat on SA.

Your disregard for their well being is about as selfish as it gets.

 

I'm done with you on this thread.

 

You came on cue, said EXACTLY what I knew you would say.  You've gotten a rise out of me and made yourself look more an ass.  Mission accomplished.

 

Thanks for the help in the other thread though.

BJ, you always want to make this about you. It isn't, it is about your suspect actions.

Your whole tone here is, "Make ME a better person, what should I have done?"

I told you point blank what you should have done. Period. I am surprised at your actions and the responses of many here. Those who go to sea have an obligation to offer assistance to the best of their ability. Did you do that? I don't think so and I don't think so by a long shot. Now say you were drifting up on a lee shore, or by standing by you knowingly are putting yourself, crew and your vessel in peril, then moving your boat to a safe distance would be most justified. However this is not the case here. There was nothing that would leave you to believe that you were in danger. the only ones that were in danger were those three fishermen. You can't just shrug your shoulders and sail away.

You abandoned those men. That's on you, squarely.



#72 Bulbhunter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 05:58 PM

Kids on board and some what curious characters on the disabled boat you never know any official CG approaches every boat that seems out of place with lots of caution so you can't really blame any boater today in the the situation BJ was in -- to be some what cautious about the boat asking for assistance.



#73 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:06 PM

 

You left them. Three souls without any hope of rescue but you... and you left them.

While you should be ashamed of yourself and your actions, you instead try and make this about some silly little spat on SA.

Your disregard for their well being is about as selfish as it gets.

 

I'm done with you on this thread.

 

You came on cue, said EXACTLY what I knew you would say.  You've gotten a rise out of me and made yourself look more an ass.  Mission accomplished.

 

Thanks for the help in the other thread though.

BJ, you always want to make this about you. It isn't, it is about your suspect actions.

Your whole tone here is, "Make ME a better person, what should I have done?"

I told you point blank what you should have done. Period. I am surprised at your actions and the responses of many here. Those who go to sea have an obligation to offer assistance to the best of their ability. Did you do that? I don't think so and I don't think so by a long shot. Now say you were drifting up on a lee shore, or by standing by you knowingly are putting yourself, crew and your vessel in peril, then moving your boat to a safe distance would be most justified. However this is not the case here. There was nothing that would leave you to believe that you were in danger. the only ones that were in danger were those three fishermen. You can't just shrug your shoulders and sail away.

You abandoned those men. That's on you, squarely.

 

"You can't just shrug your shoulders and sail away." - which of course if you weren't on some demented mission to defame me every chance you get you'd realize I did not do.  I spent the next hour and a half after leaving working the radios until I found someone that relayed the information to authorities I could not reach and would not have stopped until I contact someone and had assured a report.

 

The problem is that you have ZERO credibility when saying anything to or about me.  You have spewed so much bullshit about me, how is anyone to know what you say is true?

 

"You call it how you see it".  Yup, except the way you see it makes Mr. Magoo look like a fighter pilot.



#74 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:07 PM

 

#6:
 
What are you supposed to do, when the disabled party declines further assistance? You can't force yourself upon them. Even the USCG will not intervene if a skipper forcibly declines assistance.
 
They might stop a voyage before it begins, but that's not relevant here.
 
He also ensured that the proper authorities were informed, even though it took a while.
Something isn't passing the sniff test with these people anyway. Probably not pirates, but something doesn't quite seem on the up-and-up.
 
Edit:
 
Slug made a lot of good suggestions though-
Life jackets by assisting participants.
Ensuring the area is clear of debris.
Passing ANY amount of fuel to the disabled party, to allow them to at least control their vessel, even if it won't get them all the way home.

 
 
We've been going back and forth on the Jerry Can question for a while, brought to a head in Trinidad where we refueled that way.
 
Downsides include they make it harder to get down the deck, they are ugly as hell, they might come loose, and they do wear out in the sun.
 
On the other hand it's a really quick way to get a lot of water for a ditching and we WILL be in places where dinghy fuel is hard to come by so having ten gallons - enough for 2-4 weeks of regular operation of our dinghy (depends how far we're anchored out and what is around) will make a huge difference in our experience.  Diesel, in our discussions, seems less of a priority.  Only because each 5 gallon jerry can will run the engine for about 2.5 hours MAX at cruising speeds, the engine is rated at 10L/hour - that works out to an added range of about 15NM or so per can; our primary tank holds 1000L and our secondary 300L so that does not seem like a lot extra.  On the other hand each 5 gallon jerry can will run the generator for about 20 hours which is more important for things like self steering under sail and having instruments.
 
And as this incident shows if I could have passed these guys 10 gallons of gas and water jugs easily it would have made a big difference.  Instead we were scrambling for jugs under the deck and couldn't work out a sensible and safe way to get a couple of gallons out of our dingy to them that wouldn't get contaminated with sea water or lost being spilled on the deck.
 
The experience makes you think these things through though, hindsight is 20/20.  Siphoning out of the dinghy tank would have lowered spill risks, the trick was finding something to send the fuel over in.  Emptying a water jug...leaves water in the jug to get mixed with fuel.  Maybe enough not to cause a problem.  Most likely some of the residual diesel left over in the diesel cans would NOT have hurt a two stroke, the the time those did not seem wise to use.  I assumed they had two strokes, as the Venezuelan government apparently has subsidized the fishing fleet with Enduros for years.
 
That's why I started this thread...to help me think up and learn ways to be better prepared.

You can easily siphon the fuel out of the tank using the fuel line. Just squeeze the bloody bulb a few times and you're off and running. I refueled my boat all the way home from HI using a squeeze bulb and fuel hose.

 

The dumb easy shit you don't think of when your adrenaline is up...thanks!



#75 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:09 PM

No one is suggesting not being cautious. Haven't heard anyone say they should have rafted up and thrown a party.

At the same time you can't leave three souls to the whims of the sea. What if a squall came up and suddenly overwhelmed the 20 foot open boat? What if the breeze strengthened or the seas built? What if these three simply came to their senses and the gravity of their plight dawn fully on them? You just can't simply justify leaving them in that predicament. Telling yourself that someone else will happen along and find them or that they may drift 20 miles to a small island. I am so surprised at some of the opinions offered here. It is a crying shame. I hope none of you find yourselves in trouble offshore only to watch others turn their backs.

Again, if these fellows had ill intent, BJ and company would have never seen them coming until it was too late.



#76 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:13 PM

 

 

You left them. Three souls without any hope of rescue but you... and you left them.

While you should be ashamed of yourself and your actions, you instead try and make this about some silly little spat on SA.

Your disregard for their well being is about as selfish as it gets.

 

I'm done with you on this thread.

 

You came on cue, said EXACTLY what I knew you would say.  You've gotten a rise out of me and made yourself look more an ass.  Mission accomplished.

 

Thanks for the help in the other thread though.

BJ, you always want to make this about you. It isn't, it is about your suspect actions.

Your whole tone here is, "Make ME a better person, what should I have done?"

I told you point blank what you should have done. Period. I am surprised at your actions and the responses of many here. Those who go to sea have an obligation to offer assistance to the best of their ability. Did you do that? I don't think so and I don't think so by a long shot. Now say you were drifting up on a lee shore, or by standing by you knowingly are putting yourself, crew and your vessel in peril, then moving your boat to a safe distance would be most justified. However this is not the case here. There was nothing that would leave you to believe that you were in danger. the only ones that were in danger were those three fishermen. You can't just shrug your shoulders and sail away.

You abandoned those men. That's on you, squarely.

 

"You can't just shrug your shoulders and sail away." - which of course if you weren't on some demented mission to defame me every chance you get you'd realize I did not do.  I spent the next hour and a half after leaving working the radios until I found someone that relayed the information to authorities I could not reach and would not have stopped until I contact someone and had assured a report.

 

The problem is that you have ZERO credibility when saying anything to or about me.  You have spewed so much bullshit about me, how is anyone to know what you say is true?

 

"You call it how you see it".  Yup, except the way you see it makes Mr. Magoo look like a fighter pilot.

You left them to fend for themselves. Period.

Why once you made contact with someone, did you not turn back to stand by? You were what at that point 10-12 miles away maybe at most?

Seriously, stop trying to make this about something other than what you did. Because it is not in the least. My responses to you would be the same regardless. Just as I question many of the opinions offered that seemingly side with what you did.



#77 Bulbhunter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:16 PM

No one is suggesting not being cautious. Haven't heard anyone say they should have rafted up and thrown a party.

At the same time you can't leave three souls to the whims of the sea. What if a squall came up and suddenly overwhelmed the 20 foot open boat? What if the breeze strengthened or the seas built? What if these three simply came to their senses and the gravity of their plight dawn fully on them? You just can't simply justify leaving them in that predicament. Telling yourself that someone else will happen along and find them or that they may drift 20 miles to a small island. I am so surprised at some of the opinions offered here. It is a crying shame. I hope none of you find yourselves in trouble offshore only to watch others turn their backs.

Again, if these fellows had ill intent, BJ and company would have never seen them coming until it was too late.

 

You ever try to forcibly remove someone from a boat? You ever do anything where your on your own and come across what could very much be a very questionable situation with some folks that do not seem to be what they pretend to be? I don't care if your on the ocean, middle of the fucking desert or hiking through the back country you always tend to limit your time ie exposure to an odd situation that raises your sense of security. I'm sure you would be the first one lecturing BJ on how he should have thrown the throttle down and got all his guns on deck and start shooting if he reported that they were chased and attacked by a fishing boat.

 

I find your response pretty typical of anyone who has never experienced crossing paths with strange questionable characters in a place where your all on your own if things go bad. Given he could not forcibly remove them from the boat all he really could do is get their position to the authorities and others in the area which he did.



#78 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:18 PM

 

 

 

You left them. Three souls without any hope of rescue but you... and you left them.

While you should be ashamed of yourself and your actions, you instead try and make this about some silly little spat on SA.

Your disregard for their well being is about as selfish as it gets.

 

I'm done with you on this thread.

 

You came on cue, said EXACTLY what I knew you would say.  You've gotten a rise out of me and made yourself look more an ass.  Mission accomplished.

 

Thanks for the help in the other thread though.

BJ, you always want to make this about you. It isn't, it is about your suspect actions.

Your whole tone here is, "Make ME a better person, what should I have done?"

I told you point blank what you should have done. Period. I am surprised at your actions and the responses of many here. Those who go to sea have an obligation to offer assistance to the best of their ability. Did you do that? I don't think so and I don't think so by a long shot. Now say you were drifting up on a lee shore, or by standing by you knowingly are putting yourself, crew and your vessel in peril, then moving your boat to a safe distance would be most justified. However this is not the case here. There was nothing that would leave you to believe that you were in danger. the only ones that were in danger were those three fishermen. You can't just shrug your shoulders and sail away.

You abandoned those men. That's on you, squarely.

 

"You can't just shrug your shoulders and sail away." - which of course if you weren't on some demented mission to defame me every chance you get you'd realize I did not do.  I spent the next hour and a half after leaving working the radios until I found someone that relayed the information to authorities I could not reach and would not have stopped until I contact someone and had assured a report.

 

The problem is that you have ZERO credibility when saying anything to or about me.  You have spewed so much bullshit about me, how is anyone to know what you say is true?

 

"You call it how you see it".  Yup, except the way you see it makes Mr. Magoo look like a fighter pilot.

You left them to fend for themselves. Period.

Why once you made contact with someone, did you not turn back to stand by? You were what at that point 10-12 miles away maybe at most?

Seriously, stop trying to make this about something other than what you did. Because it is not in the least. My responses to you would be the same regardless. Just as I question many of the opinions offered that seemingly side with what you did.

 

Malmo was closer to them when we talked and a 500 foot ship powering at 10 knots on a course that might have run them down.  I would have had to beat back to them, I had this discussion with their radio operator.  I offered to sail back, but pointed out that he would reach them more quickly since I would struggle to maintain 6 knots upwind while tacking back to them, not much better powering into 8' waves either.  He concurred that they would get to them before would.



#79 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:19 PM

No one is suggesting not being cautious. Haven't heard anyone say they should have rafted up and thrown a party.

At the same time you can't leave three souls to the whims of the sea. What if a squall came up and suddenly overwhelmed the 20 foot open boat? What if the breeze strengthened or the seas built? What if these three simply came to their senses and the gravity of their plight dawn fully on them? You just can't simply justify leaving them in that predicament. Telling yourself that someone else will happen along and find them or that they may drift 20 miles to a small island. I am so surprised at some of the opinions offered here. It is a crying shame. I hope none of you find yourselves in trouble offshore only to watch others turn their backs.

Again, if these fellows had ill intent, BJ and company would have never seen them coming until it was too late.

 

You ever try to forcibly remove someone from a boat? You ever do anything where your on your own and come across what could very much be a very questionable situation with some folks that do not seem to be what they pretend to be? I don't care if your on the ocean, middle of the fucking desert or hiking through the back country you always tend to limit your time ie exposure to an odd situation that raises your sense of security. I'm sure you would be the first one lecturing BJ on how he should have thrown the throttle down and got all his guns on deck and start shooting if he reported that they were chased and attacked by a fishing boat.

 

I find your response pretty typical of anyone who has never experienced crossing paths with strange questionable characters in a place where your all on your own if things go bad. Given he could not forcibly remove them from the boat all he really could do is get their position to the authorities and others in the area which he did.

 

He's been out there Bulhunter, he's just got an agenda here.



#80 Bulbhunter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:24 PM

 

No one is suggesting not being cautious. Haven't heard anyone say they should have rafted up and thrown a party.

At the same time you can't leave three souls to the whims of the sea. What if a squall came up and suddenly overwhelmed the 20 foot open boat? What if the breeze strengthened or the seas built? What if these three simply came to their senses and the gravity of their plight dawn fully on them? You just can't simply justify leaving them in that predicament. Telling yourself that someone else will happen along and find them or that they may drift 20 miles to a small island. I am so surprised at some of the opinions offered here. It is a crying shame. I hope none of you find yourselves in trouble offshore only to watch others turn their backs.

Again, if these fellows had ill intent, BJ and company would have never seen them coming until it was too late.

 

You ever try to forcibly remove someone from a boat? You ever do anything where your on your own and come across what could very much be a very questionable situation with some folks that do not seem to be what they pretend to be? I don't care if your on the ocean, middle of the fucking desert or hiking through the back country you always tend to limit your time ie exposure to an odd situation that raises your sense of security. I'm sure you would be the first one lecturing BJ on how he should have thrown the throttle down and got all his guns on deck and start shooting if he reported that they were chased and attacked by a fishing boat.

 

I find your response pretty typical of anyone who has never experienced crossing paths with strange questionable characters in a place where your all on your own if things go bad. Given he could not forcibly remove them from the boat all he really could do is get their position to the authorities and others in the area which he did.

 

He's been out there Bulhunter, he's just got an agenda here.


No doubt I haven't blocked posters on SA for a long time and I've added two today? What the heck? Must be winter kicking in and people getting pissy about it.



#81 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 06:35 PM

I have not suggested trying to remove them, nor would I. Given the right set of circumstances, they will come to that conclusion in their own good time.

And yes, I have been around the block. Been shot at by pirates, all just like the brochure said it would be.

And I do have an agenda BJ. That agenda is getting the point across that you don't leave people in distress, 20+ miles offshore, to fend for themselves.

I really hate to think some of you ever venture offshore and find yourselves in difficult situations.



#82 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 07:05 PM

I have not suggested trying to remove them, nor would I. Given the right set of circumstances, they will come to that conclusion in their own good time.

And yes, I have been around the block. Been shot at by pirates, all just like the brochure said it would be.

And I do have an agenda BJ. That agenda is getting the point across that you don't leave people in distress, 20+ miles offshore, to fend for themselves.

I really hate to think some of you ever venture offshore and find yourselves in difficult situations.

 

No, you do clearly have an agenda with me.  It is to constantly belittle, degrade and demean me without any regard for the truth or accuracy.  You have made that perfectly clear time and again, in spite of your smile, handshake and good wishes you gave to me in person.  You are two faced and duplicitous.

 

You have said so many hateful and simply not true things about me how can I possibly accept any criticism from you, constructive or otherwise?



#83 SailRacer

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 07:09 PM

Dawg, LOCK this thread !

 

Oh, Wait....   He no here  ;  (

 

 

Sail safe!



#84 Hobie Dog

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 07:40 PM

Interesting to note, yesterday a sail boat was boarded by pirates in Venezuelan waters not to far from the route we sailed.

 
WTF BJ you drop this out here like a news reporter reporting another shooting in Detroit. Like they happen all the time it has become commonplace. Not to say we should feel that way with either so any details? Is this really becoming so commonplace that it's just not shocking enough for our news media so it's not reported? I know you did not mean to come across that way but just how it read. Anything more on this???

#85 DISHONEST ASSHOLE

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 08:05 PM


Interesting to note, yesterday a sail boat was boarded by pirates in Venezuelan waters not to far from the route we sailed.

 
WTF BJ you drop this out here like a news reporter reporting another shooting in Detroit. Like they happen all the time it has become commonplace. Not to say we should feel that way with either so any details? Is this really becoming so commonplace that it's just not shocking enough for our new media so it's not reported? I know you did not mean to come across that way but just how it read. Anything more on this???

There are plenty of websites and piracy reporting organizations you can find if you know how to Google. Yes it happens often in certain areas and no it's not reported often beyond yachting or commercial shipping interests.

#86 Hobie Dog

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 08:17 PM

 


Interesting to note, yesterday a sail boat was boarded by pirates in Venezuelan waters not to far from the route we sailed.

 
WTF BJ you drop this out here like a news reporter reporting another shooting in Detroit. Like they happen all the time it has become commonplace. Not to say we should feel that way with either so any details? Is this really becoming so commonplace that it's just not shocking enough for our new media so it's not reported? I know you did not mean to come across that way but just how it read. Anything more on this???

There are plenty of websites and piracy reporting organizations you can find if you know how to Google. Yes it happens often in certain areas and no it's not reported often beyond yachting or commercial shipping interests.

What's this Google you speak of? :lol:

 

OK Guys and Gals I am out for the weekend. Sail and fish safe, I plan to do both! :D



#87 DISHONEST ASSHOLE

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 08:28 PM


 



Interesting to note, yesterday a sail boat was boarded by pirates in Venezuelan waters not to far from the route we sailed.

 
WTF BJ you drop this out here like a news reporter reporting another shooting in Detroit. Like they happen all the time it has become commonplace. Not to say we should feel that way with either so any details? Is this really becoming so commonplace that it's just not shocking enough for our new media so it's not reported? I know you did not mean to come across that way but just how it read. Anything more on this???
There are plenty of websites and piracy reporting organizations you can find if you know how to Google. Yes it happens often in certain areas and no it's not reported often beyond yachting or commercial shipping interests.
What's this Google you speak of? :lol:
 
OK Guys and Gals I am out for the weekend. Sail and fish safe, I plan to do both! :D

I think some Jewish billionaire teenager owns it.

Extended Cruising - passages Venz, panama, Brazil, with family and without guns and training for everyone on how to use them - not for me. It's much different than sailing favorite known cruising grounds and chartering for instance. BJ already had a friend take a machete to her face by a teenager just a fee weeks ago. Most of these guys see a gun and they quickly move on to an easier target. Just like carjacking in Detroit. Otherwise you better have good negotiating skills and ugly wives and daughters.

#88 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 08:57 PM

I have not suggested trying to remove them, nor would I. Given the right set of circumstances, they will come to that conclusion in their own good time.

And yes, I have been around the block. Been shot at by pirates, all just like the brochure said it would be.

And I do have an agenda BJ. That agenda is getting the point across that you don't leave people in distress, 20+ miles offshore, to fend for themselves.

I really hate to think some of you ever venture offshore and find yourselves in difficult situations.

 

No, you do clearly have an agenda with me.  It is to constantly belittle, degrade and demean me without any regard for the truth or accuracy.  You have made that perfectly clear time and again, in spite of your smile, handshake and good wishes you gave to me in person.  You are two faced and duplicitous.

 

You have said so many hateful and simply not true things about me how can I possibly accept any criticism from you, constructive or otherwise?

You, you, you. Always about you.

I am not two faced or duplicitous in the least. My well wishes were most sincere, as was the handshake.

I also don't tell lies about you, I call them as i see them and will tell you that right to your face as I would here. You are welcome to ask anyone who actually knows me. A straight shooter who tells it like it is. Not everyone is comfortable with that. So be it.

And again, this is about you leaving those poor souls to fend for themselves. I think such actions are about as low as it gets, to be perfectly frank. I would have offered up the same opinions if it was any poster on here or elsewhere. God forbid you ever find yourself in a similar circumstance, needing assistance offshore and someone comes along, gives you some rations and then leaves you. These guys weren't some homeless person on the street you give five bucks to and be on your way. They were in a real jam, and you left them. Pitiful. You should be ashamed. Instead, you make it about you. When confronted, you add details that were not originally stated. I find that suspect. You toss out there that there was a report of piracy in the area, after the fact. True or not I don't know. It is clear you are tossing that out there as justification for your actions. However, pirates don't ask for food, water and fuel and send you off. So anyone who doesn't see through that is pretty naive. 



#89 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 09:23 PM

 

I have not suggested trying to remove them, nor would I. Given the right set of circumstances, they will come to that conclusion in their own good time.

And yes, I have been around the block. Been shot at by pirates, all just like the brochure said it would be.

And I do have an agenda BJ. That agenda is getting the point across that you don't leave people in distress, 20+ miles offshore, to fend for themselves.

I really hate to think some of you ever venture offshore and find yourselves in difficult situations.

 

No, you do clearly have an agenda with me.  It is to constantly belittle, degrade and demean me without any regard for the truth or accuracy.  You have made that perfectly clear time and again, in spite of your smile, handshake and good wishes you gave to me in person.  You are two faced and duplicitous.

 

You have said so many hateful and simply not true things about me how can I possibly accept any criticism from you, constructive or otherwise?

You, you, you. Always about you.

I am not two faced or duplicitous in the least. My well wishes were most sincere, as was the handshake.

I also don't tell lies about you, I call them as i see them and will tell you that right to your face as I would here. You are welcome to ask anyone who actually knows me. A straight shooter who tells it like it is. Not everyone is comfortable with that. So be it.

And again, this is about you leaving those poor souls to fend for themselves. I think such actions are about as low as it gets, to be perfectly frank. I would have offered up the same opinions if it was any poster on here or elsewhere. God forbid you ever find yourself in a similar circumstance, needing assistance offshore and someone comes along, gives you some rations and then leaves you. These guys weren't some homeless person on the street you give five bucks to and be on your way. They were in a real jam, and you left them. Pitiful. You should be ashamed. Instead, you make it about you. When confronted, you add details that were not originally stated. I find that suspect. You toss out there that there was a report of piracy in the area, after the fact. True or not I don't know. It is clear you are tossing that out there as justification for your actions. However, pirates don't ask for food, water and fuel and send you off. So anyone who doesn't see through that is pretty naive. 

 

Umm no...many of the things you have said about me are out and out LIES.  You might believe them in some myopic fantasy of yours, but that does not make them true.  Therefore you lose any credibility when it comes to anything you say critical of me.

 

You always claim the high ground, there is always some Holy Reason that justifies your thuggish behavior.  Just like you stalking and savaging a 19 year old kid here on SA..."It's for his own good."  Bullshit, it's for your own amusement and ego, and you claim a "Higher Purpose" to excuse your boorish behavior.

 

If it wasn't you would couch your comments in well, useful constructive terms instead of insults and assaults on my character.

 

Your well wishes and handshake were clearly not sincere, you have obviously hated me for some time.  A sincere response would have been to tell me to fuck off, but you are to cowardly for that face to face.



#90 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 09:27 PM

Interesting to note, yesterday a sail boat was boarded by pirates in Venezuelan waters not to far from the route we sailed.

 
WTF BJ you drop this out here like a news reporter reporting another shooting in Detroit. Like they happen all the time it has become commonplace. Not to say we should feel that way with either so any details? Is this really becoming so commonplace that it's just not shocking enough for our news media so it's not reported? I know you did not mean to come across that way but just how it read. Anything more on this???

 

I got wind of it through the Trinidad Cruisers Facebook Page.  I don't much more detail than that it happened.  Boat names Explorer, buddy boating with Joanna.  They got separated.  Explorer is now back in Trinidad, apparently the skipper got pistol whipped or something.

 

There is a post/thread on it here:

 

https://www.facebook...38065706283722/

 

Comments from the skipper of Joana:

 

I have only just got online at Bahia Redonda in PLC Venezuela so I have been unable to tell my side of this story, at least all that I can say in a public forum. You should always expect that there will always be details that should not be shared in public. Yes, SV Joana had made an agreement with SV Explorer to sail as buddy boats from Chaguaramas to PLC. We delayed our departure for nearly a month to meet the required departure date of Explorer. Joana had planned for a speed of 6 knots, but Explorer wanted 7 knots. Joana had wanted a course heading N from the Boca and then West maintaining 10nm offshore, but Explorer wanted to head NW from the Boca and effectively cut the corner, and staying unnecessarily close to the Paria. Explorer was behind Joana as we left the Boca and over the next hour, was at a constant distance. In time, the distance started to increase. We could see Explorer (with the naked eye) setting the whisker pole, changing course and trying to get the best speed. We tried to raise Explorer on the radio but got no response. After 3 hours, they had slowly fallen back and we couldn't even see them with our binoculars - so we slowed down to 5 knots for the next 4 hours. 7 hours into the trip, we were hailed by Trinidad Coast Patrol radio, who informed us that Explorer had a "pirate incident" and had returned to Chaguaramas. Unfortunately, we could garner no more info. We continued our passage, and ramped up the speed as best we could. We had a completely uneventful trip. We had to use our searchlights a few times and warned fishermen to stay away - and were completely attentive at all times. We have not been able to contact Explorer yet, but feel terribly for what has happened. It would seem that Buddy boating for security reasons is very difficult to maintain, and may offer little other than an illusion of safety.

 

This happened while we were en route to Aruba



#91 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 10:45 PM

 

 

I have not suggested trying to remove them, nor would I. Given the right set of circumstances, they will come to that conclusion in their own good time.

And yes, I have been around the block. Been shot at by pirates, all just like the brochure said it would be.

And I do have an agenda BJ. That agenda is getting the point across that you don't leave people in distress, 20+ miles offshore, to fend for themselves.

I really hate to think some of you ever venture offshore and find yourselves in difficult situations.

 

No, you do clearly have an agenda with me.  It is to constantly belittle, degrade and demean me without any regard for the truth or accuracy.  You have made that perfectly clear time and again, in spite of your smile, handshake and good wishes you gave to me in person.  You are two faced and duplicitous.

 

You have said so many hateful and simply not true things about me how can I possibly accept any criticism from you, constructive or otherwise?

You, you, you. Always about you.

I am not two faced or duplicitous in the least. My well wishes were most sincere, as was the handshake.

I also don't tell lies about you, I call them as i see them and will tell you that right to your face as I would here. You are welcome to ask anyone who actually knows me. A straight shooter who tells it like it is. Not everyone is comfortable with that. So be it.

And again, this is about you leaving those poor souls to fend for themselves. I think such actions are about as low as it gets, to be perfectly frank. I would have offered up the same opinions if it was any poster on here or elsewhere. God forbid you ever find yourself in a similar circumstance, needing assistance offshore and someone comes along, gives you some rations and then leaves you. These guys weren't some homeless person on the street you give five bucks to and be on your way. They were in a real jam, and you left them. Pitiful. You should be ashamed. Instead, you make it about you. When confronted, you add details that were not originally stated. I find that suspect. You toss out there that there was a report of piracy in the area, after the fact. True or not I don't know. It is clear you are tossing that out there as justification for your actions. However, pirates don't ask for food, water and fuel and send you off. So anyone who doesn't see through that is pretty naive. 

 

Umm no...many of the things you have said about me are out and out LIES.  You might believe them in some myopic fantasy of yours, but that does not make them true.  Therefore you lose any credibility when it comes to anything you say critical of me.

 

You always claim the high ground, there is always some Holy Reason that justifies your thuggish behavior.  Just like you stalking and savaging a 19 year old kid here on SA..."It's for his own good."  Bullshit, it's for your own amusement and ego, and you claim a "Higher Purpose" to excuse your boorish behavior.

 

If it wasn't you would couch your comments in well, useful constructive terms instead of insults and assaults on my character.

 

Your well wishes and handshake were clearly not sincere, you have obviously hated me for some time.  A sincere response would have been to tell me to fuck off, but you are to cowardly for that face to face.

Listen BJ, unless you can point to specifics... I have never lied about you or anyone on here. It is your MO, to always move to that when you don't like to hear what is being said. I get it, it is how you operate. it is how you try to protect the image you cultivate and project. I really could care less, just so we are clear, because i am comfortable with who I am and what I do.

You read everything I post as if it is some sort of personal affront. Yet at the same time you claim i am the one with the overblown ego. I find that most comical. Again, if you actually knew me, you would get that just isn't the case. I'll say it again for you, straight shooter, matter of fact, tell it like it is, call 'em as i see 'em.

WRT this thread, I think you were very wrong to leave these folks. Just in case you didn't understand that from my other posts. Good seamen don't leave others adrift. ~End of story.



#92 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 10:56 PM

You don't leave any seamen adrift in LIS do ya No. 2



#93 B.J. Porter

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 11:00 PM

Listen BJ, unless you can point to specifics... I have never lied about you or anyone on here. It is your MO, to always move to that when you don't like to hear what is being said. I get it, it is how you operate. it is how you try to protect the image you cultivate and project. I really could care less, just so we are clear, because i am comfortable with who I am and what I do.

You read everything I post as if it is some sort of personal affront. Yet at the same time you claim i am the one with the overblown ego. I find that most comical. Again, if you actually knew me, you would get that just isn't the case. I'll say it again for you, straight shooter, matter of fact, tell it like it is, call 'em as i see 'em.

WRT this thread, I think you were very wrong to leave these folks. Just in case you didn't understand that from my other posts. Good seamen don't leave others adrift. ~End of story.

 

I have pointed out your specifics of lies and bullshit a dozen times and more.  And you've done more since then.  YOU are the one that hems and haws and disappears when I ask you to CITE some "converstation" where I "admitted" something and you can't come up with it.  You are the one that is deleuded enough to think I would fake the administrative logs on SA in order to claim you were not telling the truth or that I trumped up a PM thread which was no longer identifiable as yours because your sockpuppet had been deleted.  And so on and so on, over and over again.
 

In turn I ask you to cite one single thing about myself that I have ever inflated, overstated, or lied about.  You can't, because I haven't.  I am what I am and who I present myself as here, I don't have to run around telling people how awesome I really am in spite of my assholish personality on SA.

 

I get that you have a problem with my leaving them.  Where on earth did you get that I was completely comfortable with my decisions and actions?  Why do you think I brought this up for discussion?  If you took the time to READ what I write in full instead of skimming it and going off half cocked when you see an opportunity to slam me for something like you always do perhaps you would not have missed this salient point.

 

I don't have an "Image" I cultivate, this is where your wackiness really kicks in.  What you see here is what I am in real life.  You imagine that I am as dishonest as say...someone like you for example...so I have to be projecting an image since you do.  It just isn't so, ask anyone that has spent any time around me - and I'm not talking about someone that may have raced on my boat once or twice that I didn't invite back, either.

 

I read what you post as a personal affront because you post everything as a distorted personal attack.  How the hell else am I supposed to take it when someone lies about me and impugns my character constantly?  Am I NOT supposed to be affronted by that?



#94 NoStrings

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 11:23 PM

Ok lads, you've made it perfectly clear that you won't be answering one another's M4M craigslist ads. Can the rest of us please have a break?

#95 austin1972

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 11:41 PM

Well #6, I dunno your background but you are coming off as a little strange here.

Your assertion that you never leave someone else in the water to fend for themselves is utter bullshit.

 

Ever been a certified lifeguard?  If so, then you know Rule #1.

The situation sounds sketchy to me, so I would have certainly been weary.

He couldn't hail anyone from his position.

He kept trying until successfully making contact.

 

You weren't there.  I wasn't there.

 

I once had a panicking 13 year old girl take me under.  The options were creepy as hell and only one option had a chance of success.

You never know a situation fully unless you were in it.



#96 DISHONEST ASSHOLE

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 11:45 PM

Well #6, I dunno your background but you are coming off as a little strange here.
Your assertion that you never leave someone else in the water to fend for themselves is utter bullshit.
 
Ever been a certified lifeguard?  If so, then you know Rule #1.
The situation sounds sketchy to me, so I would have certainly been weary.
He couldn't hail anyone from his position.
He kept trying until successfully making contact.
 
You weren't there.  I wasn't there.
 
I once had a panicking 13 year old girl take me under.  The options were creepy as hell and only one option had a chance of success.
You never know a situation fully unless you were in it.


Comparing life guarding to ocean rescues
With this post, we've jumped the shark.

I was enjoying the catfish actually

#97 austin1972

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 11:50 PM

How so?  You do what you can within the confinements of your own safety and that of others.

How does that ever change in any situation?

 

Nice to know there are gladiator sailors out there, I guess.

That's all I'll say about that.



#98 No.6

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 11:56 PM

Ok lads, you've made it perfectly clear that you won't be answering one another's M4M craigslist ads. Can the rest of us please have a break?

Nick, you guys from Richmond have a weird take on shit!

Hope you are well.



#99 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 12:33 AM

No. 6 might have the most name changes and sock puppets of any SAer in history.  Anonymous Guest and Jack Tar most prominently, but he's well known for being out of his gourd, and he gets banned every couple of years over more than a decade of e-comedy on SA.

 

He's a reminder of why it's a good thing that akaGP got a lifetime ban.  One of them is enough!

 

 

 

Well #6, I dunno your background but you are coming off as a little strange here.



#100 NoStrings

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 12:43 AM

Not really JT, I would have hung around....way out of swimming distance...a mile or so, but I would have hung out until someone that could help them arrived on scene. If the worst had happened, I'd be close enough to snag them. That said, my SSB works pretty damn well, and my Iridium phone has everyone's #s preprogrammed into it (including the ICE #s for my crew).

I met Gio Soldini this spring when Maserati was tied up next to me in the yard. I'm 5'8 in lifts, and I tower over him. I figure if that little S.O.B. can sail upwind for 400 miles in the southern ocean to pick up Isabelle, I can heave to until dawn to make sure that three dudes don't die of thirst.

What if they're a threat? If they are, you're likely to know it from a quarter mile. If they continue to steer an intercept vector, ID is HOSTILE. If they are, fucking ram them. I'll take an HR53 over a 20' panga any damn day. If that doesn't work, use the hand grenade tucked behind the reefer compressor. J/k gang....




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