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Canadian Maritime Charts


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#1 sully75

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 01:38 AM

I'm planning a trip to Newfoundland/Labrador next summer.  I'm a bit frustrated in finding charts.  Seems Canadian charts are crazy expensive from the government (particularly the electronic ones).  No chartbooks seem available.  I'm confused as to how people get charts for going to Canada.  I do have an aquaintance who has copies of charts and I can copy them.  I was just wondering what the general plan is.  Maybe people have enough money to buy $2k of charts for a trip...I don't.  

 

If anyone has NL or other Maritime charts they'd like to sell, please let me know.

 

I have the CM93 or whatever electronic chart.  I just would like something to back it up with.

 

Thanks!
Paul



#2 jacrider

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 04:59 AM

As a Canadian, I share your frustration.  As a taxpayer, we have already funded the creation of the charts, why are we having to pay so much?  Why would we ask potential guests/tourists to pay so much?

 

Anyway, we use a Garmin chartplotter with their charts.  We also use various Android devices with Navionics installed as back-ups.

 

You can get them from Fugawa:  http://store.fugawi....-east-and-south

 

Sorry from a frustrated Canadian sailor.



#3 slug zitski

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 10:07 AM

Paper charts are expensive.

I know of no cheap way out. In some regions of the world third parties package hydrographic data into chart books at a very good price. Normally I carry a much reduced folio of Admirality paper, the coast pilot , cruising guide..and a full compliment of electronic charts.

For International sailing , Many electronic chart packages are really wanky.

Navionics for instance is trash.

The russian charts ...transas marine are the best electonic charts I have found.

A folio for your water is less than 25 euros. Have a look is you need electronic charts. Isailor is the marketing name.

Attached Files



#4 Jim in Halifax

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 11:20 AM

Advertise for used charts on Kijiji, Craigslist, etc. in the local area you are seeking charts for. I recently sold a complete set of charts for the Nova Scotia Atlantic coast to a guy in MA for a fraction of new cost. The rocks and channels don't change up here on the 'hard' coast and you electronic charts will have the latest info for the navaids.

 

All Canadian Hydrographic Sevice paper charts are now print-on-demand; they went to that delivery model a couple of years ahead of the NOAA. $20 a chart. Helps pay the CHS budget.



#5 Py26129

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 04:29 PM

Sully

 

PM me with what Charts you need.  I may have some, covering  the NF south coasts and east coast to Bonavista. 



#6 Ishmael

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Posted 19 November 2013 - 04:40 PM

Advertise for used charts on Kijiji, Craigslist, etc. in the local area you are seeking charts for. I recently sold a complete set of charts for the Nova Scotia Atlantic coast to a guy in MA for a fraction of new cost. The rocks and channels don't change up here on the 'hard' coast and you electronic charts will have the latest info for the navaids.

 

All Canadian Hydrographic Sevice paper charts are now print-on-demand; they went to that delivery model a couple of years ahead of the NOAA. $20 a chart. Helps pay the CHS budget.

 

What he said. I got many of my charts of the west coast from a local used boatstuff store. $5 each is way better than $20.

 

The Canuckistan government doesn't give much away for free (unless you are an MP or senator) but you can download and print off the latest List of Lights, Buoys, and Fog Signals from here: http://www.notmar.gc...ices/list/index



#7 sully75

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 05:21 PM

With the Garmin stuff I see "Nova Scotia Inland Lakes" but I don't see coastal areas available.  Am I missing something?

Thanks

Paul



#8 Alex W

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 06:03 PM

I had the same experience when planning for a trip to BC last year.

 

I ended up buying Navionics electronic charts (about $250) for my plotter that covered Vancouver Island.  I bought used and out of date paper charts (about $30 total) to go along with them.  I figured that major rocks don't move too much, and for navigating around minor ones I'd be using my electronic charts.



#9 Ishmael

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 06:26 PM

With the Garmin stuff I see "Nova Scotia Inland Lakes" but I don't see coastal areas available.  Am I missing something?

Thanks

Paul

 

Yes. Go here: http://my.garmin.com...D&country=en_US

 

If you like parrots, peg legs and eye patches, go here: http://gpsunderground.com/forum/



#10 sully75

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Posted 20 November 2013 - 11:13 PM

Thanks!

 

I wouldn't suppose you could use the file to make a print on a plotter of some sort?  Not worth asking.

 

Strange because when I've traveled by land in Canada, their tourism stuff is so well done and informative.  



#11 slug zitski

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Posted 21 November 2013 - 08:30 AM

The cruise guide that I use for The Labrador coast is compiled by


Alexander Weld
211 Ash Street
Weston , MA. 02193


Produced by Puffin Press


Background reading.........Sir Wilfred Thomason Grenfell

#12 sully75

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 04:36 AM

slug.  thanks.  I really liked Farley Mowat's book, The Newfoundland, I think it's called.  



#13 wcz3176

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 06:24 PM

http://www.puffin-press.com/ has a guide for GSL, NS and Newfoundland as well as Labrador. They are really good and depend on user updates. They also carry annual updates online between editions that are well worth downloading before you go.  But they do not have enough chart insets to act as a paper back up by any means. Many of the older CHS paper charts are at a better scale than  you can currently buy new. And indeed the rocks have not moved. But they had significant GPS datum issues, which is why CHS has been slow in some more remote parts to publish electronic charts. But they have been slowly getting this sorted out. I've cruised up there off and on since the late 70's. I inherited a full set of 1970's paper charts which is a huge sense of security to have along, and continue to pull them out for various reasons, including notes on charts re anchorages etc scribed by previous generation. Note that they changed the chart numbering system about 20 years ago so if you find old charts they may not relate to the current chart catalog numbers, but that does not mean they aren't still useful. You just need to find an old catalog to go with the old numbered charts. A good source of all things Canadian Maritimes is binnacle.com. This summer we did the circuit around Newfoundland. We worked off a mix of 10 year old CHS digital CD's - sold then by NDI, and I bought iNavX raster charts on ipad for areas where my NDI vintage were not covering. The east side of the Newfoundland Northern Peninsula for instance. Plus we still take the paper set for when the echarts crash at the critical moment. Best way to avoid that is to always have the relevant paper chart at the top of the pile. 



#14 Jon Eisberg

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:15 PM

http://www.puffin-press.com/ has a guide for GSL, NS and Newfoundland as well as Labrador. They are really good and depend on user updates. They also carry annual updates online between editions that are well worth downloading before you go.  But they do not have enough chart insets to act as a paper back up by any means. Many of the older CHS paper charts are at a better scale than  you can currently buy new. And indeed the rocks have not moved. But they had significant GPS datum issues, which is why CHS has been slow in some more remote parts to publish electronic charts. But they have been slowly getting this sorted out. I've cruised up there off and on since the late 70's. I inherited a full set of 1970's paper charts which is a huge sense of security to have along, and continue to pull them out for various reasons, including notes on charts re anchorages etc scribed by previous generation. Note that they changed the chart numbering system about 20 years ago so if you find old charts they may not relate to the current chart catalog numbers, but that does not mean they aren't still useful. You just need to find an old catalog to go with the old numbered charts. A good source of all things Canadian Maritimes is binnacle.com. This summer we did the circuit around Newfoundland. We worked off a mix of 10 year old CHS digital CD's - sold then by NDI, and I bought iNavX raster charts on ipad for areas where my NDI vintage were not covering. The east side of the Newfoundland Northern Peninsula for instance. Plus we still take the paper set for when the echarts crash at the critical moment. Best way to avoid that is to always have the relevant paper chart at the top of the pile. 

 

Yup, that's one part of the world I'd never want to sail without the appropriate paper charts... My C-Maps for the plotter aren't bad, but they don't begin to compare to the beautiful CHS paper charts, some of the finest examples of cartographic art, IMHO.  Particularly in regards to the topography of land masses, which is critical when cruising regions as mountainous as parts of Newfoundland and Labrador... The new series of CHS charts of Northern Labrador featuring the Torngat Mountains are simply beautiful to look at...

 

So far, I've found the charts of that region to be incredibly accurate, aside from the occasional datum offset issues... This is certainly not a place for the type of sailor becoming increasingly commonplace today - namely, the one who does not appreciate that your position as indicated on your plotter may not necessarily reflect your position on the Earth's surface :-)

 

 

grandbruitchart.jpg

 

 

The OP might want to keep an eye on the SSCA's Chart Exchange, but in my observation there are far more people looking for charts of Atlantic Canada, than offering them.... Any for sale always seem to go very quickly:

 

http://forum.ssca.or...53a36be26b7503b

 

The Binnacle is a good source for new, and does offer free shipping for orders over $150, if memory serves... However, last time I looked, they actually showed a very limited offering of available charts for order on their site.  No doubt they can get anything for you if requested, but it would seem to require a bit more work/communication with them to order what you want...

 

I ordered a large batch last year from Maryland Nautical, and was very pleased with their service.  I found their site by far the most complete and easy to navigate, and with the very helpful feature of actually being able to see a picture of each chart depicted before ordering... Also, some of their smaller harbor charts are priced accordingly lower than the $19.80 for the standard CHS charts, something that Landfall Navigation or Bluewater does not necessarily appear to do...

 

http://mdnautical.co...atlantic-region

 

As noted, the guides from the CCA/Puffin Press are a terrific resource, I wouldn't want to be without them... In addition, there is a superb guide for Newfoundland's Notre Dame Bay:

 

http://www.landfalln...com/ben008.html

 

And here is an excellent online resource for Cape Breton and the Bras d'Or Lakes:

 

http://cruising-cape-breton.info/

 

Finally, I'd try to obtain a copy of a terrific weather resource for Atlantic Canada... A most excellent reference, though be sure that the copy you're buying is in English, I believe they published one in French, as well:

 

http://www.amazon.ca...c/dp/1550811193



#15 sully75

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 12:30 PM

Update: have a reasonable smattering of paper charts, working on filling in some holes.  I'm thinking about buying two android tablets and using the Navionics with them.  Does anyone have any experience with them?

 

Thanks!



#16 Aloha 27

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 03:43 PM

Here in the Great White North, from page 14 of the Safe Boating Guide,  "the largest commercially available paper chart is mandatory to have aboard (unless you know the area "sufficiently well") of the area in which you are sailing in addition to the latest edition of related documents and publications, including Notices to Mariners, Sailing Directions, tide and current tables, and the List of Lights, Buoys and Fog Signals."

 

Having said that, in over 17,000 miles of cruising the waters of Atlantic Canada over the past 15 years, we have NEVER been asked whether we actually had said paper charts aboard. Your experience may vary.

 

Guide can be downloaded at:

www.tc.gc.ca/publications/en/tp511/pdf/hr/tp511e.pdf

 

PM me with your planned itinerary and I'll see if I can hook you up with some charts you can borrow for your cruise.



#17 sully75

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 12:49 PM

Aloha, PM sent.



#18 Py26129

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:06 PM

Funny anecdote re. the requirement of having papaer charts on Board:  Last year, prior to leaving for our annual vacation I asked the Coasties (Canada) aboard for a courtesy inspection.  When I asked them specifically about the paper chart reuqirement, they could not have cared less.  I guess the three  GPSs and the toughbook convinced them that we had sufficient redundancy.



#19 sully75

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 04:53 PM

What toughbook do you have?

#20 Py26129

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 05:15 PM

I'm running a Panasonic CF-19, on Windows 7.  Battery life is pretty good and a modest 300W inverter will keep it running indefinitely, with a 140W solar panel charging the house bank.  Mine does not have the built in GPS :-(  but a Garmin etrex plugged into the USB port does the job just fine

 

I can tell you that ours is waterproof.  We gave oit a pretty thorough test on Lake Ontario last year. 



#21 Dilligaf0220

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 11:43 PM

Funny anecdote re. the requirement of having papaer charts on Board:  Last year, prior to leaving for our annual vacation I asked the Coasties (Canada) aboard for a courtesy inspection.  When I asked them specifically about the paper chart reuqirement, they could not have cared less.  I guess the three  GPSs and the toughbook convinced them that we had sufficient redundancy.


Don't even get me started on the water cops around here and that TransCan "requirement".

Some busy beaver of a staff sergeant has been grilling the troops on it over the last few years, to the point where paddling a kayak on Lake Ontario I get "pulled over" and asked to provide ownership documents & a chart.

In a kayak.

The guys just trying to go out salmon fishing for an evening are getting grilled over not having charts, to the point where they simply don't bother any more and tow their boat an extra half hour down the lake. Not a fan of revenue generation reaching the water, ugh!

#22 ProaSailor

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 12:24 AM

Update: have a reasonable smattering of paper charts, working on filling in some holes.  I'm thinking about buying two android tablets and using the Navionics with them.  Does anyone have any experience with them?

 

Thanks!

 

Three years ago I bought the Navionics Marine&Lakes app for my Android Motorola DROID Maxx phone - ~$10 US at the time.  I was impressed with what it did, yet incredibly frustrated a few times when it froze and lost many hours of a sailing track.  Once when it froze up, it never came back - had to go through a big hassle with Navionics to get it re-installed and working again.  But for the price, what you can say?

 

Now $15 US: https://play.google....gleAppUsaCanada

 

Their HD version is for tablets - $55: https://play.google....eAppUsaCanadaHD

 

Their interactive charts on this page are impressive for free (though not full screen) if you happen to have Internet access (scroll down to the "Coverage" tab and select "US and Canada"):

 

http://www.navionics.../navionics-plus



#23 ProaSailor

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Posted 24 May 2014 - 01:13 AM

WARNING about iNavX!!!  Just read this report at Lat38 about the guy who lost his boat on the Big Island last Sunday night - Seaquel's Final Chapter:

 

They'd been navigating for weeks without a problem using iNavX software on Berg's iPad, which was interfaced with the vessel's GPS. That night they were headed for a waypoint offshore of Honokohau Harbor, north of Kialua Kona town. All of a sudden the screen was taken over by a system request to log in to FaceTime, an Apple resource, then another request to log in to the iCloud. No matter what Berg and Peters did, they couldn't clear the screen and log back in to iNavX.



#24 sully75

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 12:15 AM

If by the grace of god anyone reading this has a Navionics Canada and SE Alaska chip for a Lowrance chart plotter that they would part with, I'd like to buy it from you.  






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