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Dragonfly 32: Cruiser/Racer?


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#1 X X-Yachter

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:07 PM

After 3 monohull boats ending in a King 40 IRC racer-I am ready to move on. After looking closely at all options, I am ready to pull the trigger on a DF32. Any words of advice from the collective braintrust in the multihull forums?

Boat will be used for more blasting around Long Island Sound to start with but planning on kicking up a racing program once I get the hang of this new world. Anticipate mainly distance events: Vineyard, NEMA races, Round Long Island, then trailoring to Charleston, Lauderale, ChiMac.

Blame my Weta for this game changer.

Thoughts?- other than trying to convnce me to buy your own dream machine wicked carbon rocket? I like nice  Danish stuff.



#2 ssi

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 03:28 PM

If you have the cash, buy it.



#3 triple trouble

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:03 PM

Parents had Dragonfly 800 in the early 90's and had it for 5 years before being transferred to Hong Kong. Loved it and were sad to part with it. Definitely high quality boat according to them. 



#4 THOR

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:32 PM

nice .... dunno what they go for these days. But good boats whatever the price is ...  I think you can get a F 32 built in the Phillipines all ready to go including transport customs etc etc for around 300000  ( kinda guestimating here, as the bare boat seems to be around 200 big ones, but than you add all the stuff you need, plus pay Uncle Sam and voila ..)

The DF is a bit more luxurious, well built and Jens is a good guy, which is important. I like my F33 very very much. It has a little shorter stick ( fits under more bridges ) but weighs a little less,( I think ). Folding the monster takes 2 people and I wouldnt suggest to do it every day, at least not with my back. Mine is pretty much kitted like a cruiser, which I like . For comparison my Phrf is -21

 

I am pretty sure you gonna love that DF ....

 

there is really no way back whenever you are on the darkside once

 

Best Thor



#5 X X-Yachter

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 04:39 PM

Thanks guys. Looks like the factory would like the boat at the Annapolis show 2014. Hoping to do that.

Thoughts on setting up a roller for the kites? And thoughts on 3DI's. My last set of sails and on a mono they were great. Kinda like a wing with little stretch or bounce in them. Stiff as hell. Concern about breaking a gooseneck or boom.



#6 SeaGul

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 05:17 PM

Was able to take a look at the DF32 and the DF28 at the boatshow in Oslo in August.... The 28 is less than 1 million NOK incl 25% tax  less than 170.000 USD 

and the 32 double that - with some gear. Both are very big for their length - to be tris - the hull are quite wide and tall and the amas too.

 

Really nice interior and top quality - dont think any can macth the DFs in this class but they are not racing boats (heavy). But coming from monos it will be fast......  



#7 Corley_

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:52 PM

If your folding the boat for storage in a slip then the swing wing is nice as you don't need to antifoul the sides of the floats you do pay for a little more length though.  I really like the weight/comfort compromise that Dragonfly have come up with a really pleasantly finished interior with good joinery and comfort.



#8 mowgli

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:54 PM

You have to look at the rudder because from one in Holland the rudder did come up ad speed and it was not steering very well anymore.

The cam cleat was not holding the line well to keep the rudder down. 



#9 X X-Yachter

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:55 PM

Thanks SeaGul. Yes that is my impression as well. I am counting on the multihull handicap system to give us a reasonable chance on any given race course. My experience is that it will take a season or 2 to optimize numbers and performance. Tenacity and guts has worked in the past for our little program and in terms of stories to tell- well-we have quite a few.



#10 X X-Yachter

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 06:57 PM

You have to look at the rudder because from one in Holland the rudder did come up ad speed and it was not steering  .

The cam cleat was not holding the line well to keep the rudder down. 

 

Will do. That seems like an easy fix.



#11 mowgli

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:00 PM

I shall ask the owner when I see him again what he did with the problem. I did say it was wrong designed. He had a 920 Touring before so he does know where he is talking about.

 

You have to look at the rudder because from one in Holland the rudder did come up ad speed and it was not steering  .

The cam cleat was not holding the line well to keep the rudder down. 

 

Will do. That seems like an easy fix.



#12 EarthBM

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 07:38 PM

Have a DF 35... Can't think of any boat that strikes the seaworthiness/performance/cost/quality balance better.

Re: rudder kicking up -- just the question of using a fluffier rope that grips in the cleat better.

Check out dragonfly-trimarans.org user site

#13 Speng

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Posted 22 November 2013 - 09:28 PM

With those swanky Nordic interiors you'll probably win the Racer-Chaser-Shagging honors for sure. Line honors not so much but prolly more fun for what you want to do than the mono-shitter. you should confirm the trailerability of the boat but I'm sure you've already done that given your traveling plans. I saw one of these in England a few years ago and they are nice cruiser-racers and a cruise to Bermuda wouldn't be out of consideration.

 

As for the sails your best bet would be to find someone with one nearby and get sail recommendations from them as there probably aren't many in the US and you don't want to be the guinea pig for some newbie sailmaker. North does have some good designers in their stable however since they've got designers all over the world. Are you looking at the small or big rig? According to their website thay offer a code zero/screecher which is probably on an endless line furler and that'll be a good cruising sail and you might just leave the kite for racing. I reckon bagging a kite on a boat like this isn't a big deal as you have a nice big area to work with and on distance races you're not concerned about the fastest drop. I wouldn't necessarily worry about the r/f kite unless you were going to do a lot of shorthanded racing.

 

Good luck.



#14 X X-Yachter

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 03:56 AM

With those swanky Nordic interiors you'll probably win the Racer-Chaser-Shagging honors for sure. Line honors not so much but prolly more fun for what you want to do than the mono-shitter. you should confirm the trailerability of the boat but I'm sure you've already done that given your traveling plans. I saw one of these in England a few years ago and they are nice cruiser-racers and a cruise to Bermuda wouldn't be out of consideration.
 
As for the sails your best bet would be to find someone with one nearby and get sail recommendations from them as there probably aren't many in the US and you don't want to be the guinea pig for some newbie sailmaker. North does have some good designers in their stable however since they've got designers all over the world. Are you looking at the small or big rig? According to their website thay offer a code zero/screecher which is probably on an endless line furler and that'll be a good cruising sail and you might just leave the kite for racing. I reckon bagging a kite on a boat like this isn't a big deal as you have a nice big area to work with and on distance races you're not concerned about the fastest drop. I wouldn't necessarily worry about the r/f shorthanded racing.

Yes trailerable with permits. Planning on North as I've used them for 15 years. Design already done. Probably endless curler for a screecher as you suggest. Bermuda might be doable but having made that trip a few times I think my age should match the boat length in feet and that isn't a good match these days!
Thanks.


 
Good luck.



#15 soma

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 08:46 AM

Great boat. Live the interior.

3di all the way. They can vary the carbon/spectra content to suit. Talk to Paul Van Dyke at NS. He's local to you which is a bonus, but I'd recommend him regardless.

Great boat. Love the interior.

3di all the way. They can vary the carbon/spectra content to suit. Talk to Paul Van Dyke at NS. He's local to you which is a bonus, but I'd recommend him regardless.

#16 X X-Yachter

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Posted 23 November 2013 - 12:35 PM

Great boat. Live the interior.
3di all the way. They can vary the carbon/spectra content to suit. Talk to Paul Van Dyke at NS. He's local to you which is a bonus, but I'd recommend him regardless. Great boat. Love the interior.
3di all the way. They can vary the carbon/spectra content to suit. Talk to Paul Van Dyke at NS. He's local to you which is a bonus, but I'd recommend him regardless.


Got it. Thanks. Looking forward to spanking monos.

#17 Crouton

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:37 AM

Be nice if we could drum up some like competition on WLIS.  Hard to effectively evangelize 200 miles away from saltwater.



#18 X X-Yachter

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 02:37 AM

Be nice if we could drum up some like competition on WLIS.  Hard to effectively evangelize 200 miles away from saltwater.

Well WLIS might be a decent practice zone. Reality is that the trailer coming with this machine is going to see some miles. There are multis in the area for sure and some of the local clubs offer a multi class for their distance races. Other than the Vineyard and Around the Island Race, none very high profile.

But ya never know. This might be the start of something. I think a lot of mono  owners would like to race smaller, faster machines.



#19 sreiz

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 10:20 AM

Seems as if you aim the boat mainly at racing. Forget about trailoring the df32. Besides, it's heavy, thus needing a large sail area with huge loads. If your main objective is fun sailing go for the new all carbon tri T29 manufactured by KISS multihull AB in Sweden (ahlinder.hans@gmail.com) fully equipped for cruising and racing including high tech carbon sails for less half the base price of the DF32 and at less than 1/3 of the weight. Don't forget that you need to add 40% to the base price to have the dragonflies fully kitted. However if you prefer fast cruising in style coming from the lead freighters community, the df-s are excellent choices.

#20 X X-Yachter

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 12:32 PM

Seems as if you aim the boat mainly at racing. Forget about trailoring the df32. Besides, it's heavy, thus needing a large sail area with huge loads. If your main objective is fun sailing go for the new all carbon tri T29 manufactured by KISS multihull AB in Sweden (ahlinder.hans@gmail.com) fully equipped for cruising and racing including high tech carbon sails for less half the base price of the DF32 and at less than 1/3 of the weight. Don't forget that you need to add 40% to the base price to have the dragonflies fully kitted. However if you prefer fast cruising in style coming from the lead freighters community, the df-s are excellent choices.

Looks like a very interesting boat. I understand you are his business partner.



#21 sreiz

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 01:21 PM

Part of the development team and responsible for the kitting. If you read French I can send you some recent articles.

#22 triple trouble

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 05:53 PM

Spent my b'day here in Ste Max with Father and will return to America following the holiday next Thursday. More to the point, we discussed you thoughts on racing a DF 32 and specifically trailering said boat. His opinion, having tried it with the DF 800 is - don't plan on it.The DF's are not easy to rig and tune for a weekend event. Too big, heavy and bulky to make it a comfortable experience.  Just his opinion of course. 



#23 X X-Yachter

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Posted 24 November 2013 - 06:27 PM

Spent my b'day here in Ste Max with Father and will return to America following the holiday next Thursday. More to the point, we discussed you thoughts on racing a DF 32 and specifically trailering said boat. His opinion, having tried it with the DF 800 is - don't plan on it.The DF's are not easy to rig and tune for a weekend event. Too big, heavy and bulky to make it a comfortable experience.  Just his opinion of course. 

Understood. And Happy Birthday.

The idea of trailoring isn't for weekend stuff. Big events and relocations for part of a season would be my plan. The boat will come with a trailor but moving it around will require permits and be hired out.



#24 SeaGul

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 06:59 AM

When compare the DF32;  its in space a bigger boat than 32 feet- a lot of inside room - also bigger than my 35 feet tri.

 

And its heavy with 3,3 tons - but with that tall amas an hight righting moment (weight and beam 8,0m) it will probably do well in a breeze. 

 

Given a normal handicap system - it will do poor in light conditions - but good in heavy conditions.

 

And pricing - latest its said to start at  210.000 € + VAT so it really a good price - consider how big it is - even better prices is the fully trailerable DF28 starting at about 120.000 € + VAT. Also with interior much bigger than usual for this length. 



#25 sreiz

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 04:25 PM

SeaGul! These are fantasy prices. Check the DF price lists and you will have to pay about 200.000 eur for a 28 once you have asked for what you really need. I have a friend who has just ordered a 32. Difficult to get below 400.000 incl VAT. Their marketing approach is the same as for German luxury cars.

#26 SeaGul

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 05:26 PM

SeaGul! These are fantasy prices. Check the DF price lists and you will have to pay about 200.000 eur for a 28 once you have asked for what you really need. I have a friend who has just ordered a 32. Difficult to get below 400.000 incl VAT. Their marketing approach is the same as for German luxury cars.

 

It was from the DF homepage and updatet for 2014 - but "basic" prices - so dont know what is incuded and not.... but isnt that the same for every boat...



#27 X X-Yachter

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 05:33 PM

SeaGul! These are fantasy prices. Check the DF price lists and you will have to pay about 200.000 eur for a 28 once you have asked for what you really need. I have a friend who has just ordered a 32. Difficult to get below 400.000 incl VAT. Their marketing approach is the same as for German luxury cars.

 

It was from the DF homepage and updatet for 2014 - but "basic" prices - so dont know what is incuded and not.... but isnt that the same for every boat...

Nearly ready to order hull #16 DF 32. Looks like a cruiser/racer package will be under $400K US with sails not including  delivery

 



#28 sreiz

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 05:50 PM

Good choice so the manufacturer stays alive. Tell us when your wife gets her first cervical disc herniation from winching or buy the electric winch option. I have a friend who has ordered no 3 and requested they produce it 400 kg lighter. This adds further to the price, like does textile rigging and carbon mast. Contrary to what is stated in the specs the df-s are considerably heavier when you get them on the water kitted as they should be. Finish is nice but product is low tech heavy, illustrated by poor performance in light airs. If your main objective is long distance cruising buy a df, if it's racing, get something else. With the money you seem to be prepared to invest, go for a sig45.

#29 TheFlash

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 05:57 PM

Sig 45 hands down - but for the same price? Hard to believe it.



#30 X X-Yachter

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 06:36 PM

Good choice so the manufacturer stays alive. Tell us when your wife gets her first cervical disc herniation from winching or buy the electric winch option. I have a friend who has ordered no 3 and requested they produce it 400 kg lighter. This adds further to the price, like does textile rigging and carbon mast. Contrary to what is stated in the specs the df-s are considerably heavier when you get them on the water kitted as they should be. Finish is nice but product is low tech heavy, illustrated by poor performance in light airs. If your main objective is long distance cruising buy a df, if it's racing, get something else. With the money you seem to be prepared to invest, go for a sig45.

So you have spent a lot of effort on this forum esstially bashing a manufacturer you are in direct competition  with. One that has been making tris for decades longer than you have. There's another manufacturer, one with a terrific reputation, who sent me a private message and gracefully made a few suggestions on my purchase rather than overkill promoting his own product.

You might want to reconsider your marketing strategy on SA.

 

p.s. Gunboats are very very nice.



#31 sreiz

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 08:58 PM

The T29 is not in competition with the df-s as you may understand when comparing sail area to weight ratios. Entirely different ambition and type of customer. For anyone putting emphasis on racing and trailoring like you described your objectives at the start of this thread the df 32 is an odd choice. This said, I have a lot of respect for the success story of the Quorning yard and also three decades of experience racing formula 28, 40 and Orma tris. Coming from the keel boat world, the performance of the df-s is probably sufficient to make you excited.

#32 THOR

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 10:06 PM

It all depends how serious you are with the racing part of it. As I said earlier the DF is heavy and compensates with a big stick, which really makes electric winches almost necessary, which adds weight again. Its a nice boat, If I had the money and my preference would be cruising at least 90 % certainly a good choice.

 

No matter what you do in regards of any multi, spend a couple bucks and hire Randy Smythe for a weekend and let him show you the tricks, you certainly will agree with me that those are the best boatbucks you will spend. Its a steep learning curve from a Mono to a Multi and you save a season or more that way.

 

Best Thor



#33 X X-Yachter

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 11:37 PM

It all depends how serious you are with the racing part of it. As I said earlier the DF is heavy and compensates with a big stick, which really makes electric winches almost necessary, which adds weight again. Its a nice boat, If I had the money and my preference would be cruising at least 90 % certainly a good choice.

 

No matter what you do in regards of any multi, spend a couple bucks and hire Randy Smythe for a weekend and let him show you the tricks, you certainly will agree with me that those are the best boatbucks you will spend. Its a steep learning curve from a Mono to a Multi and you save a season or more that way.

 

Best Thor

Thanks Thor. All good advice and points well taken. I've spent 14 years in monohulls going to start lines after organizing the intricate comings and goings of 8-10 guys each time. Did I forget clean up? None of it I regret. But it's time for an inflection and blasting around the water on  a muti to and from some really cool places (we used to just stare at from the   rail and the drivers seat), hanging out with nice  interior surroundings,doing a few medium distance races and maybe a big name event per year sounds like  vacation worth having. 

Already got the advice on Randy and a few other mentors. I am probably going to Denmark to take advantage of their tri instruction options.

Bigger cabin top winches already planned and anything less than a 50 foot bolt rope hoist of 550 sq ft would be nice. Gosh when did they invent roller furling?- I missed that one.



#34 Crouton

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:49 AM

Good choice so the manufacturer stays alive.

 

Amazingly ungracious and snarky reply

 

Tell us when your wife gets her first cervical disc herniation from winching

 

The D32 is a wifekiller!  Who'd a thunk it?

 

The T29 is not in competition with the df-s as you may understand ... Entirely different ambition and type of customer.

 

Looking at T29 Facebook images, looks like the T29 customer is the kind of guy who gets uncomfortable in a Porta Potti because its interior is too reminiscent of a Ritz Carlton

 

Which is too bad.  I'm 1/2 Swedish and inclined to like Swedish products.  Those older gents in the photos look like my grandfather and his pals.  But the T29's weight advantage -- however much it may be -- appears to be a direct result of its stripped out, all gelcoat interior.  And that hull design better work because its certainly odd looking

 

Cruiser/racer concept actually may work out better on a tri, with the amas and sailplan working together to provide more horsepower


 

 With the money you seem to be prepared to invest, go for a sig45.

 

Always easy to spend some other guys money



#35 EarthBM

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:32 AM

About electric winches on DF -- I have them and never use them. I am kind of big though.

#36 SeaGul

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 07:11 AM

One thing about DF that not many multihulls have is a good resale value. To start with a DF32 coming from monos must be ideal - a tri is a smaller step than a cat .... and the DF is equal to the best monos as it comes to interior. 



#37 X X-Yachter

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 09:49 AM

One thing about DF that not many multihulls have is a good resale value. To start with a DF32 coming from monos must be ideal - a tri is a smaller step than a cat .... and the DF is equal to the best monos as it comes to interior. 

Well said. Having some experience on a small tri- the boats can go upwind without 8 guys on the rail. Not that I don't love those 8 guys- I just get to hang out with them 3 or 4 at a time. And you are correct about the resale value of these boats. That should make it easier for us to move up to the next DF flagship. I predict a DF 38 in 2years. Scaled up DF32.



#38 X X-Yachter

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 09:52 AM

About electric winches on DF -- I have them and never use them. I am kind of big though.

What size winches would you recommend?



#39 SeaGul

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 10:08 AM

One thing about DF that not many multihulls have is a good resale value. To start with a DF32 coming from monos must be ideal - a tri is a smaller step than a cat .... and the DF is equal to the best monos as it comes to interior. 

Well said. Having some experience on a small tri- the boats can go upwind without 8 guys on the rail. Not that I don't love those 8 guys- I just get to hang out with them 3 or 4 at a time. And you are correct about the resale value of these boats. That should make it easier for us to move up to the next DF flagship. I predict a DF 38 in 2years. Scaled up DF32.

 

Well they have the 35 - which was the first of these modern designs - and still the maybe a little outdated 1200. That the last is still in production show that it is a market for som tris close to 40 feets. 

 

As for light wind performance -  it will do better that similar cats and most monos (that also from what I have seen in real life) but a really light tri will of course have an advantage. 



#40 Christian

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:05 PM

You sound like a complete douche - time to STFU and focus on promoting your boat in a classy way - that probably means letting somebody else in the company be the spokesperson........................

Good choice so the manufacturer stays alive. Tell us when your wife gets her first cervical disc herniation from winching or buy the electric winch option. I have a friend who has ordered no 3 and requested they produce it 400 kg lighter. This adds further to the price, like does textile rigging and carbon mast. Contrary to what is stated in the specs the df-s are considerably heavier when you get them on the water kitted as they should be. Finish is nice but product is low tech heavy, illustrated by poor performance in light airs. If your main objective is long distance cruising buy a df, if it's racing, get something else. With the money you seem to be prepared to invest, go for a sig45.



#41 Left Hook

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:12 PM

XX, get the 'lectric winches and leave the cordless drill at home!! ;)



#42 TheFlash

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:28 PM

Anyone ever sail the Contour 50?  They go for a decent price these days. Not sure how the engineering scaled up from the 34.



#43 X X-Yachter

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 03:49 PM

XX, get the 'lectric winches and leave the cordless drill at home!! ;)

 

Haha. A good mast guy like you and I won't even need the winch.



#44 EarthBM

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 04:30 PM


About electric winches on DF -- I have them and never use them. I am kind of big though.

What size winches would you recommend?

Would say same as mine. Cabin top 46 (mine are Andersen, work well, haven't been cleaned/lubed yet after 4 years). Then two smaller ones (I am guessing 40) for the main (adequate) and 2 more for the screacher/preventer/barberhaul.

I do break sweat unfolding the amas and raising the main, but think it's a good thing.

#45 AClass USA 230

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:15 PM

You are going to love this boat. There is nothing like cruising along at 12-15 knots on beam reach using the main and Code Zero with your favorite mate and a cold brew in your hand and then having a nice anchorage for dinner and wine at the end of the day. My wife and I have a Corsair Sprint 750 and while it's smaller and not a cruiser like the D-32, we do a lot of daysailing and some weekend camping and just love the boat. We're thinking about a used Corsair 31 or perhaps a slightly used Corsair Cruze 32 in the future to do more cruising (trailer from the gulf coast to east coast Florida and head to the Bahamas).

 

Good luck and post pics on this forum when you get your new boat.

 

Bob Hodges

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#46 X X-Yachter

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:42 PM

You are going to love this boat. There is nothing like cruising along at 12-15 knots on beam reach using the main and Code Zero with your favorite mate and a cold brew in your hand and then having a nice anchorage for dinner and wine at the end of the day. My wife and I have a Corsair Sprint 750 and while it's smaller and not a cruiser like the D-32, we do a lot of daysailing and some weekend camping and just love the boat. We're thinking about a used Corsair 31 or perhaps a slightly used Corsair Cruze 32 in the future to do more cruising (trailer from the gulf coast to east coast Florida and head to the Bahamas).

 

Good luck and post pics on this forum when you get your new boat.

 

Bob Hodges

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Corsair Sprint 750 9

 

Thanks Bob. I was actually thinking it might be fun to sign up for the NY Yacht Club cruise with daily destination races and show up at the next mooring field before the 60 foot monohulls far enough ahead  to get in a shower and the first beer at the bar.



#47 X X-Yachter

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 05:45 PM

 


About electric winches on DF -- I have them and never use them. I am kind of big though.

What size winches would you recommend?

Would say same as mine. Cabin top 46 (mine are Andersen, work well, haven't been cleaned/lubed yet after 4 years). Then two smaller ones (I am guessing 40) for the main (adequate) and 2 more for the screacher/preventer/barberhaul.

I do break sweat unfolding the amas and raising the main, but think it's a good thing.

 The 46 winches would be my choice too. Along with the 2 extra smaller kite winches. I might consider making those lighter Harkens.



#48 Training Wheels

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:51 PM

You sound like a complete douche - time to STFU and focus on promoting your boat in a classy way - that probably means letting somebody else in the company be the spokesperson........................

Good choice so the manufacturer stays alive. Tell us when your wife gets her first cervical disc herniation from winching or buy the electric winch option. I have a friend who has ordered no 3 and requested they produce it 400 kg lighter. This adds further to the price, like does textile rigging and carbon mast. Contrary to what is stated in the specs the df-s are considerably heavier when you get them on the water kitted as they should be. Finish is nice but product is low tech heavy, illustrated by poor performance in light airs. If your main objective is long distance cruising buy a df, if it's racing, get something else. With the money you seem to be prepared to invest, go for a sig45.

+1!

#49 smellibits

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:53 AM

You sound like a complete douche - time to STFU and focus on promoting your boat in a classy way - that probably means letting somebody else in the company be the spokesperson........................

Good choice so the manufacturer stays alive. Tell us when your wife gets her first cervical disc herniation from winching or buy the electric winch option. I have a friend who has ordered no 3 and requested they produce it 400 kg lighter. This adds further to the price, like does textile rigging and carbon mast. Contrary to what is stated in the specs the df-s are considerably heavier when you get them on the water kitted as they should be. Finish is nice but product is low tech heavy, illustrated by poor performance in light airs. If your main objective is long distance cruising buy a df, if it's racing, get something else. With the money you seem to be prepared to invest, go for a sig45.

+ 2

cf Jens and his team who are a classy act.



#50 EarthBM

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 03:58 PM

 The 46 winches would be my choice too. Along with the 2 extra smaller kite winches. I might consider making those lighter Harkens.


Went for a sail yesterday, the winch sizes are 2x 46ST, 4x 28ST. The pair of 28s used for the screacher could be one size larger, but not critical.

About light wind sailing: mine is a touring version with 5' shorter mast. Reached at about 95% of true wind speed yesterday on flat water, in about 7.5kt true. Would be at or above wind speed with the tall rig. On the other hand when I took it from Seattle to LA in offshore pacific swells I did not miss the tall rig at all, had one reef on most of the time.

More conceptually, I see where the weight comes from and it's all from overbuilding structural parts, inboard, crew comfort, and fit and finish. Think of it as a BMW. Sure an Ariel Atom or a Lotus Elise are more fun around a go kart track, but I would definitely pick a Bimmer to go 6 hours up the coast to SF or on a coast-to-coast drive. Just like the 3-series Bimmers have been sorted through 20-30 years of evolution, so have Dragonflies. In fact in your choices of winches, electronics, etc I would fully rely on whatever Quorning recommends.
8h2n.jpg

#51 X X-Yachter

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 04:27 PM

Good points all. I view this breed as the multihull version of XYachts. Jealous of your long season. I am actually in Portland this week and gorgeous weather.
Glad to hear you are getting the Cat A ability out of your machine. We are predominantly in light air so that the taller rig is needed. But I have a few coastal trips in mind where strength trumps speed.

#52 tomfla

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Posted 29 November 2013 - 08:24 PM

I looked at several boats which I considered cruiser/racers.  First were Fboat variations like C27, C28, and C31.  While the C31 was clearly a joy to sail and almost always the fastest boat around (lets be realistic that while there are boats that are faster than a C31 they are not a lot of boats you can camp/cruise on that will out run a C31) I really did not view them as a cruiser I could comfortably live on for what I will call a real cruise.  At this point I started looking at DFs.  Very nice boats and much more livable than a C31, and certainly more expensive.  I really liked how easy it was to take an Fboat off a trailer and put it back on one.  Went through that process several times and it is quite realistic to think a normal person can go from backing the trailer into the water to leaving the dock in under two hours.  Also possible to trailer an Fboat with fairly standard vehicle.

 

While looking at Fboats I ran across a PDQ and Seawind.  Both of these cats were much more livable as a cruiser than the Fboats or the DFs.  I would up buying the second Seawind I saw and have lived on it and cruised on it for the best part of last year.  I know there are several other cats that compare well to a PDQ or Seawind and would also consider them.  One thing to keep in mind is where in the Gunboat to condomaran continuum you want your boat to be.

 

One thing I liked about the PDQs and Seawinds was they used outboards in wells instead of inboards.  Lots simpler and cheaper to replace, but possibly underpowered for dealing with heavy winds and strong tides.  My Seawind has  a composting head and all the thru hull fittings have been removed.  I can out run most of the boats in the harbor except the Fboats.  On the other hand I have been a guest/crew on Lagoons and FPs in the harbor and they do have nice creature comforts.

 

All that being said I have only had second thoughts once about my boat.  I was a guest on an owner build F39.  Had a lot more space than the C31s or C37s and was very fast.  But it was not as easy to single hand as my Seawind.  All in all I suspect you might want to check out some cats unless putting the boat on a trailer is a must have.  In that case you have a hard decision.  A DF is not something you will be able to trailer with out more help than you realize.



#53 X X-Yachter

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Posted 30 November 2013 - 12:25 AM

I did look at cats. Big issue for me is the upwind performance. Seems like we sail upwind a lot on LIS. And docking options. The folding wings on a DF just make sense. In terms of trailoring: I'm leaving that up to pros when the time comes. At least I don't have to take the keel off because that's what my last boat needed.




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