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A Bright Future for the i550

FACTORY BOATS & WOODIES TOO!

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#201 TimFordi550#87

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 02:33 PM

Attached File  Hull222.jpg   29.81K   52 downloads

 

Mauney, that was one cool little mutant!  



#202 couchsurfer

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:21 PM

attachicon.gifHull222.jpg

 

Mauney, that was one cool little mutant!  

.

 

...it may not 'fit' as an i550,,,,but hard to call it a mutant!

 

 

.................beauty speaks for itself.



#203 TimFordi550#87

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 03:36 PM

I tend to think of the word "mutant" as being somewhat value-neutral.  After all, unless you are some sort of Intelligent Design proponent, it's mutations that got us where we are, today.  Here is a nice looking mutant, although not as cute as Mauney's.

 

Attached File  Team-mutant-x-10115073-853-480.jpg   45.71K   21 downloads



#204 timber

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 04:43 PM

On a different subject i550class.org has a tshirt design they are offering. Looks pretty darn cool. You can see the design over at i550class.org.

#205 Mauney Motorsports

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 12:12 PM

Tim,
The boat did mutate, almost weekly during it's evolution, it was a Mutant.
The curvy bits were too difficult to move around and I couldn't sit on side decks in comfort.
The other problem was after all that work attempting to soften the appearance and"stylize" the foredeck/side deck interface limited crew position. The idea was to make room as far forward as possible. If my memory is still partially working the crew was stuck at 110. All that work and the foredeck was still a problem.
Foredeck on centerline stopped short of mast step, allowing sole stepped mast.....resulting in better vang purchase and full hoist main.
These were all done to rule package when boat was purchased, rules then began their mutation to keep up with the "Mutant."
The deck layout would have been fine if the deck had been lopped off squared to mast location but the look was awkward and I used an elliptical camber chart to soften the look. High point of curve was at mast step, sides points (contact with sheer) ended (0 point on camber/curve) were at 110. Style killed function, time to mutate again.

Other photos on your page show that mid panel stringer which would become the cockpit sole cleat. New sole was full length and created a massive flotation tank. Side decks were altered and kept same width to the bow. Now crew can move and trim boat with weight at will and in total comfort, such as it is on an 8" deck.
With some cosmetic fiddling the look was my favorite.
The boat was built with the lighter of the two commonly used hull stock and in the end (before cutting trunk out for attempted misuse of the boat as intended) was 210lbs without blades and rig.
The weight was lost tossing the interior bits and doubling frame thickness and by using the panel material that is 25% lighter per sheet. With regard to strength, I chose Okoume, hands down. I was able to put my foot through the side of the boat when cutting it, that panel was glassed both sides. Can't say the same for the Meranti boats, haven't given them the boot (yet.) That boot was shoved at the hull in "anger" to see if the haters were right about Okoume weakness. Answer, yes, sort of.

So, what's next? Morph another mutant? Walk away and leave the lot alone?
Mutant it is, using new files. I see the files are really unchanged regarding original errors. I wanted to maintain the NACA look, offered in non wood but the new hulls will resemble 222 mk1.
The new hull pug begins second week on May. Progress will be slow because I need to get our boat ready for Off Soundings.
Once the plug is done, I'll lay up the first black hull, it has a purpose the former boat was not quite suited for.
I will not be offering blades but will build my own. I am not offering spars for sale but building our own in house.
Will only offer hull panels, no complete hulls to avoid issues connected to building boats. What the three panels resemble when bonded is what anyone calls them, at point of sale they are panels only. Hull bottom and two side panels. Flat panels for frames and soles are possible on the massive flat panel build table.
A buyer can purchase side panels to bond to their now wood bottom panels or any combination.
While I do have the digital file, the curved/bowed frames will be straightened. The file reflects attention to the wrong details. The bulges were created due to improper bottom development and incorrect frame placement as a result.

The digital file comes with each panel or combination of panels at no extra cost. If any of the pre-digital files hull owners would like these files, message me, I'll send them.

#206 couchsurfer

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 02:12 PM

.

 

...nice t-shirts :)



#207 timber

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 09:10 PM

Tim,
The boat did mutate, almost weekly during it's evolution, it was a Mutant.
The curvy bits were too difficult to move around and I couldn't sit on side decks in comfort.
The other problem was after all that work attempting to soften the appearance and"stylize" the foredeck/side deck interface limited crew position. The idea was to make room as far forward as possible. If my memory is still partially working the crew was stuck at 110. All that work and the foredeck was still a problem.
Foredeck on centerline stopped short of mast step, allowing sole stepped mast.....resulting in better vang purchase and full hoist main.
These were all done to rule package when boat was purchased, rules then began their mutation to keep up with the "Mutant."
The deck layout would have been fine if the deck had been lopped off squared to mast location but the look was awkward and I used an elliptical camber chart to soften the look. High point of curve was at mast step, sides points (contact with sheer) ended (0 point on camber/curve) were at 110. Style killed function, time to mutate again.

Other photos on your page show that mid panel stringer which would become the cockpit sole cleat. New sole was full length and created a massive flotation tank. Side decks were altered and kept same width to the bow. Now crew can move and trim boat with weight at will and in total comfort, such as it is on an 8" deck.
With some cosmetic fiddling the look was my favorite.
The boat was built with the lighter of the two commonly used hull stock and in the end (before cutting trunk out for attempted misuse of the boat as intended) was 210lbs without blades and rig.
The weight was lost tossing the interior bits and doubling frame thickness and by using the panel material that is 25% lighter per sheet. With regard to strength, I chose Okoume, hands down. I was able to put my foot through the side of the boat when cutting it, that panel was glassed both sides. Can't say the same for the Meranti boats, haven't given them the boot (yet.) That boot was shoved at the hull in "anger" to see if the haters were right about Okoume weakness. Answer, yes, sort of.

So, what's next? Morph another mutant? Walk away and leave the lot alone?
Mutant it is, using new files. I see the files are really unchanged regarding original errors. I wanted to maintain the NACA look, offered in non wood but the new hulls will resemble 222 mk1.
The new hull pug begins second week on May. Progress will be slow because I need to get our boat ready for Off Soundings.
Once the plug is done, I'll lay up the first black hull, it has a purpose the former boat was not quite suited for.
I will not be offering blades but will build my own. I am not offering spars for sale but building our own in house.
Will only offer hull panels, no complete hulls to avoid issues connected to building boats. What the three panels resemble when bonded is what anyone calls them, at point of sale they are panels only. Hull bottom and two side panels. Flat panels for frames and soles are possible on the massive flat panel build table.
A buyer can purchase side panels to bond to their now wood bottom panels or any combination.
While I do have the digital file, the curved/bowed frames will be straightened. The file reflects attention to the wrong details. The bulges were created due to improper bottom development and incorrect frame placement as a result.

The digital file comes with each panel or combination of panels at no extra cost. If any of the pre-digital files hull owners would like these files, message me, I'll send them.

 

 

Peter,

Your current actions are corrosive to the entire group of prospective, probable and active builders and sailors who have completed their i550 builds. You are single handedly crashing the value of their work product by offering up a bastardized hull with your self admitted work-around. The guy who brought you back to people's attention probably regrets doing it.

 

Where did you get the digital files? Do the files you received say Watershed all over them? The only person who had them, other than Watershed, had them only for proofreading and had given his word to not transmit them to anyone. If you have authored them yourself it seems like you are investing a lot of effort in a destructive activity. Remember, both i550Class.org & & NA.org named us as RDO (Recognized Design Owner) in their Constitutions & no legal hull numbers (even containing one of your panels) will be issued to anyone purchasing a single panel from Peter Ross Yachts. Since you cut up your original boat, you own one license #222, even though you requested it being taken off the map. You may build only one boat.

 

Send us a full set of files. There are telltales that only we know about that will identify the origin of your files. You are just setting any one of the people up for more grief than they ever can imagine or deserve. Why waste their time and money? You are going to have angry people to deal with when your self-indulgence has run its course.

If you have such great ideas for boats, design and build one of your own.

Tim Reiter & Susan James

Watershed Sailboats

http://www.i550sportboat.com/   



#208 TimFordi550#87

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 10:23 PM

I may be an outlier here, and I'm not a lawyer, but I think Peter has a right to build an 18 foot sportboat and build foils for anyone who wants them. Remember: the Open 550!!  It lives!!!



#209 Timbo

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 10:27 PM

I think Peter has again done a brilliant job.  This is what a 18' boat should look like.  This is very similar to some rough sketches I did early on and put up for review on the i550.org web site way back when.

 

This concept was openly welcome early on, as long as the hull and rig hit all the measurement points.

 

It was only later folks got their knickers in a knot when they felt the cabin boats would not be competive with the flush deck boat, the shit hit the fan and the budding family imploded like C4 was shoved up their backsides.

 

Even glass/foam was openly discused and a welcomed idea until some folks thought otherwise..

 

Again Peter,  LOOKS GREAT and whatever you do, do not let this one meet the same fate as the last one...  Call me first..   ;)

 

The i550 is truly the "Anarchy 18"

 

Timbo

Tim,
The boat did mutate, almost weekly during it's evolution, it was a Mutant.
The curvy bits were too difficult to move around and I couldn't sit on side decks in comfort.
The other problem was after all that work attempting to soften the appearance and"stylize" the foredeck/side deck interface limited crew position. The idea was to make room as far forward as possible. If my memory is still partially working the crew was stuck at 110. All that work and the foredeck was still a problem.
Foredeck on centerline stopped short of mast step, allowing sole stepped mast.....resulting in better vang purchase and full hoist main.
These were all done to rule package when boat was purchased, rules then began their mutation to keep up with the "Mutant."
The deck layout would have been fine if the deck had been lopped off squared to mast location but the look was awkward and I used an elliptical camber chart to soften the look. High point of curve was at mast step, sides points (contact with sheer) ended (0 point on camber/curve) were at 110. Style killed function, time to mutate again.

Other photos on your page show that mid panel stringer which would become the cockpit sole cleat. New sole was full length and created a massive flotation tank. Side decks were altered and kept same width to the bow. Now crew can move and trim boat with weight at will and in total comfort, such as it is on an 8" deck.
With some cosmetic fiddling the look was my favorite.
The boat was built with the lighter of the two commonly used hull stock and in the end (before cutting trunk out for attempted misuse of the boat as intended) was 210lbs without blades and rig.
The weight was lost tossing the interior bits and doubling frame thickness and by using the panel material that is 25% lighter per sheet. With regard to strength, I chose Okoume, hands down. I was able to put my foot through the side of the boat when cutting it, that panel was glassed both sides. Can't say the same for the Meranti boats, haven't given them the boot (yet.) That boot was shoved at the hull in "anger" to see if the haters were right about Okoume weakness. Answer, yes, sort of.

So, what's next? Morph another mutant? Walk away and leave the lot alone?
Mutant it is, using new files. I see the files are really unchanged regarding original errors. I wanted to maintain the NACA look, offered in non wood but the new hulls will resemble 222 mk1.
The new hull pug begins second week on May. Progress will be slow because I need to get our boat ready for Off Soundings.
Once the plug is done, I'll lay up the first black hull, it has a purpose the former boat was not quite suited for.
I will not be offering blades but will build my own. I am not offering spars for sale but building our own in house.
Will only offer hull panels, no complete hulls to avoid issues connected to building boats. What the three panels resemble when bonded is what anyone calls them, at point of sale they are panels only. Hull bottom and two side panels. Flat panels for frames and soles are possible on the massive flat panel build table.
A buyer can purchase side panels to bond to their now wood bottom panels or any combination.
While I do have the digital file, the curved/bowed frames will be straightened. The file reflects attention to the wrong details. The bulges were created due to improper bottom development and incorrect frame placement as a result.

The digital file comes with each panel or combination of panels at no extra cost. If any of the pre-digital files hull owners would like these files, message me, I'll send them.

 

 

Peter,

Your current actions are corrosive to the entire group of prospective, probable and active builders and sailors who have completed their i550 builds. You are single handedly crashing the value of their work product by offering up a bastardized hull with your self admitted work-around. The guy who brought you back to people's attention probably regrets doing it.

 

Where did you get the digital files? Do the files you received say Watershed all over them? The only person who had them, other than Watershed, had them only for proofreading and had given his word to not transmit them to anyone. If you have authored them yourself it seems like you are investing a lot of effort in a destructive activity. Remember, both i550Class.org & & NA.org named us as RDO (Recognized Design Owner) in their Constitutions & no legal hull numbers (even containing one of your panels) will be issued to anyone purchasing a single panel from Peter Ross Yachts. Since you cut up your original boat, you own one license #222, even though you requested it being taken off the map. You may build only one boat.

 

Send us a full set of files. There are telltales that only we know about that will identify the origin of your files. You are just setting any one of the people up for more grief than they ever can imagine or deserve. Why waste their time and money? You are going to have angry people to deal with when your self-indulgence has run its course.

If you have such great ideas for boats, design and build one of your own.

Tim Reiter & Susan James

Watershed Sailboats

http://www.i550sportboat.com/   



#210 timber

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:00 AM

Timford#87

Lets review part of Peters post:

So, what's next? Morph another mutant? Walk away and leave the lot alone?
Mutant it is, using new files. I see the files are really unchanged regarding original errors. I wanted to maintain the NACA look, offered in non wood but the new hulls will resemble 222 mk1.
The new hull pug begins second week on May. Progress will be slow because I need to get our boat ready for Off Soundings.
Once the plug is done, I'll lay up the first black hull, it has a purpose the former boat was not quite suited for.
I will not be offering blades but will build my own. I am not offering spars for sale but building our own in house.
Will only offer hull panels, no complete hulls to avoid issues connected to building boats. What the three panels resemble when bonded is what anyone calls them, at point of sale they are panels only. Hull bottom and two side panels.


>> "Will only offer hull panels, no complete hulls to avoid issues connected to building boats. What the three panels resemble when bonded is what anyone calls them, at point of sale they are panels only. Hull bottom and two side panels."

No boat using cheater peter parts will ever be recognized as an i550.



Timbo> I have respect for your efforts with the Viper. However–––––––

If peter were to splash a split mold off of a Viper and offer it in carbon as half shells for assembly into "What the panels resemble when bonded is what anyone calls them, at point of sale they are panels only." How are you going to respond to that? The damage is done before you get him to stop. How are you going to recover from that?

I think that the consequences of your comments are not well thought out. Or perhaps you are thinking that hurting the i550 now is a good strategy by encouraging a parasite peter boat and the undeserved controversy that your stance will create for the i550 and all the hardworking home builders. The i550 FRP production price point is about $10,000 less than the Viper. Let the market decide. I sense a slowdown in sales for you, eh?

As to the three panel carbon peter cheater hull; WOFTAM (what a waste of time and money).

Peter take you good skills, design your own 18 footer, nurture it, look for good press, pray that you find an unoccupied niche, give support when it is asked for, pray that builders of your design offer great help to one another, have enough vision to overcome naysayers, recognize that everyone has a stake in forming a resilient social network and recognize that in any group there will be toxic individuals who should be encouraged to design their own "better" boat. Good luck. You do have the right fail.

Do something original. Just start your own boat, thread and interested group. You are one of the toxic individuals. Please leave.



This is the last I will say on this.


T

#211 Timbo

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 12:41 AM

TR, Relax...  not trying to bash the i550 in ANY WAY..   I was just commenting that when I started with you, flush decks were going to be ok, as were glass / foam core boats...  that changed at some point and there was major splintering in the i550 faction...  That is a fact.

 

As to the Viper, carbon would be cool, but not within the rules of the Viper Class.  My i550 plan set and rules say I could build it out of anthing.  But that changed after I was an owner...

 

 

 

I am fine with all types of boats out there, I welcome them all.  You and Susan are pulgging away and providing a great product for the customers that want a kit.

 

The i550 morphed down several paths, it was inevitible and I tried to make folks aware what was going to happen early on.

 

keep up the good work and try to be a little more accomodating.

 

T

Timford#87

Lets review part of Peters post:

So, what's next? Morph another mutant? Walk away and leave the lot alone?
Mutant it is, using new files. I see the files are really unchanged regarding original errors. I wanted to maintain the NACA look, offered in non wood but the new hulls will resemble 222 mk1.
The new hull pug begins second week on May. Progress will be slow because I need to get our boat ready for Off Soundings.
Once the plug is done, I'll lay up the first black hull, it has a purpose the former boat was not quite suited for.
I will not be offering blades but will build my own. I am not offering spars for sale but building our own in house.
Will only offer hull panels, no complete hulls to avoid issues connected to building boats. What the three panels resemble when bonded is what anyone calls them, at point of sale they are panels only. Hull bottom and two side panels.


>> "Will only offer hull panels, no complete hulls to avoid issues connected to building boats. What the three panels resemble when bonded is what anyone calls them, at point of sale they are panels only. Hull bottom and two side panels."

No boat using cheater peter parts will ever be recognized as an i550.



Timbo> I have respect for your efforts with the Viper. However–––––––

If peter were to splash a split mold off of a Viper and offer it in carbon as half shells for assembly into "What the panels resemble when bonded is what anyone calls them, at point of sale they are panels only." How are you going to respond to that? The damage is done before you get him to stop. How are you going to recover from that?

I think that the consequences of your comments are not well thought out. Or perhaps you are thinking that hurting the i550 now is a good strategy by encouraging a parasite peter boat and the undeserved controversy that your stance will create for the i550 and all the hardworking home builders. The i550 FRP production price point is about $10,000 less than the Viper. Let the market decide. I sense a slowdown in sales for you, eh?

As to the three panel carbon peter cheater hull; WOFTAM (what a waste of time and money).

Peter take you good skills, design your own 18 footer, nurture it, look for good press, pray that you find an unoccupied niche, give support when it is asked for, pray that builders of your design offer great help to one another, have enough vision to overcome naysayers, recognize that everyone has a stake in forming a resilient social network and recognize that in any group there will be toxic individuals who should be encouraged to design their own "better" boat. Good luck. You do have the right fail.

Do something original. Just start your own boat, thread and interested group. You are one of the toxic individuals. Please leave.



This is the last I will say on this.


T



#212 couchsurfer

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 01:02 AM

.

 

.....awww,CWAPP.......too good for too long! :mellow:  :rolleyes:  :lol:



#213 Ironweed

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:21 AM

Tim,
The boat did mutate, almost weekly during it's evolution, it was a Mutant.
The curvy bits were too difficult to move around and I couldn't sit on side decks in comfort.
The other problem was after all that work attempting to soften the appearance and"stylize" the foredeck/side deck interface limited crew position. The idea was to make room as far forward as possible. If my memory is still partially working the crew was stuck at 110. All that work and the foredeck was still a problem.
Foredeck on centerline stopped short of mast step, allowing sole stepped mast.....resulting in better vang purchase and full hoist main.
These were all done to rule package when boat was purchased, rules then began their mutation to keep up with the "Mutant."
The deck layout would have been fine if the deck had been lopped off squared to mast location but the look was awkward and I used an elliptical camber chart to soften the look. High point of curve was at mast step, sides points (contact with sheer) ended (0 point on camber/curve) were at 110. Style killed function, time to mutate again.

Other photos on your page show that mid panel stringer which would become the cockpit sole cleat. New sole was full length and created a massive flotation tank. Side decks were altered and kept same width to the bow. Now crew can move and trim boat with weight at will and in total comfort, such as it is on an 8" deck.
With some cosmetic fiddling the look was my favorite.
The boat was built with the lighter of the two commonly used hull stock and in the end (before cutting trunk out for attempted misuse of the boat as intended) was 210lbs without blades and rig.
The weight was lost tossing the interior bits and doubling frame thickness and by using the panel material that is 25% lighter per sheet. With regard to strength, I chose Okoume, hands down. I was able to put my foot through the side of the boat when cutting it, that panel was glassed both sides. Can't say the same for the Meranti boats, haven't given them the boot (yet.) That boot was shoved at the hull in "anger" to see if the haters were right about Okoume weakness. Answer, yes, sort of.

So, what's next? Morph another mutant? Walk away and leave the lot alone?
Mutant it is, using new files. I see the files are really unchanged regarding original errors. I wanted to maintain the NACA look, offered in non wood but the new hulls will resemble 222 mk1.
The new hull pug begins second week on May. Progress will be slow because I need to get our boat ready for Off Soundings.
Once the plug is done, I'll lay up the first black hull, it has a purpose the former boat was not quite suited for.
I will not be offering blades but will build my own. I am not offering spars for sale but building our own in house.
Will only offer hull panels, no complete hulls to avoid issues connected to building boats. What the three panels resemble when bonded is what anyone calls them, at point of sale they are panels only. Hull bottom and two side panels. Flat panels for frames and soles are possible on the massive flat panel build table.
A buyer can purchase side panels to bond to their now wood bottom panels or any combination.
While I do have the digital file, the curved/bowed frames will be straightened. The file reflects attention to the wrong details. The bulges were created due to improper bottom development and incorrect frame placement as a result.

The digital file comes with each panel or combination of panels at no extra cost. If any of the pre-digital files hull owners would like these files, message me, I'll send them.

MM/Peter, I'm glad your back in the hunt for your i550.  I loved watching the 222 project and it was a "what! why did he do that?" moment when 222 became small bits.  Looking forward to watching the build!



#214 couchsurfer

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 03:42 PM

.

 ....yeh,,,iirc the t-shirts are full-color






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