Jump to content


Team France


  • Please log in to reply
111 replies to this topic

#1 FAiRaWAY

FAiRaWAY

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts
  • Interests:rugby

Posted 11 December 2013 - 03:03 PM

Big announcement at Nautic 2013 in Paris.

 

a new team is born for the 35 America cup.

interesting duo: Cammas and Desjoyaux.

 

here:

http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/popup/nautic-2013-35e-coupe-de-l-america-s-cup-cammas-desjoyeaux-et-kersauson-cap-sur-la-cup/



#2 floater

floater

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 965 posts
  • Location:Berkeley - California

Posted 11 December 2013 - 03:08 PM

Now that is news.

Froggies going to stun the Brits?

#3 dogwatch

dogwatch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,249 posts
  • Location:South Coast, UK
  • Interests:Racing in all forms.

Posted 11 December 2013 - 03:55 PM

Thunderclap. At Nautic 2013, Franck Cammas and Michel Desjoyeaux unveiled their project Team France - Olivier de Kersauson! "End of 2012, we established our next goal: winning the America's Cup," said Cammas, Oracle co-skipper in 2009 and Luna Rossa in 2012. Franck will be in charge of the sports section, Mich'Desj 'the technological aspect. "Kersauson, he will act as a big brother." Stéphane Kandler lead the team, which will include a club founding members: Bruno Bich (Bic), Bertrand Méheut (Canal +), Thierry Martel (Groupama), Bruno Luisetti (formerly Kraft Jacobs Suchard) and Erik Maris (Messier Maris & Associés ). And if this time it was good? / HH

 

Some serious backers there if I'm reading this correctly.



#4 ~Stingray~

~Stingray~

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,762 posts

Posted 11 December 2013 - 04:10 PM

gtran from LeMatin

http://translate.goo.../story/19155930

 

another

http://translate.goo...5537-2013-12-11



#5 Xlot

Xlot

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,674 posts
  • Location:Rome

Posted 11 December 2013 - 05:05 PM

Some serious backers there if I'm reading this correctly.


Hmm ... I'd hold my chevaux if I were you ..

#6 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 31,997 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 11 December 2013 - 05:15 PM

that is great news.  No billionaires, but plenty of money for chasing sponsors



#7 Limézy

Limézy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 44 posts
  • Location:Palaiseau, France
  • Interests:Aerodynamics, Hydrodynamics, Foils, Foilers, Cavitation, Ventilation, CFD, Naval Architecture, America's cup, Match Race...

Posted 11 December 2013 - 05:55 PM

My dream comes true! Well, they are yet quite far from the start line, but this is really great news!

 

Les Sail Anarchistes Français, où êtes-vous?!



#8 Martin X Moleski SJ

Martin X Moleski SJ

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 178 posts
  • Location:Buffalo, NY
  • Interests:Systematic theology (Roman Catholic), RC airplanes, poker, NASCAR, America's Cup, TIGHAR (search for Amelia Earhart), website development.

Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:10 PM

Les Sail Anarchistes Français, où êtes-vous?!

Mais où sont les neiges d'antan?



#9 arr4ws

arr4ws

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,706 posts

Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:29 PM

I was expecting Cammas to participate in the next AC, but with his ''own'' syndicate .. WOW. Is it the only thing missing from Cammas repertoire?

 

the only oddball here is Kersauson



#10 Limézy

Limézy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 44 posts
  • Location:Palaiseau, France
  • Interests:Aerodynamics, Hydrodynamics, Foils, Foilers, Cavitation, Ventilation, CFD, Naval Architecture, America's cup, Match Race...

Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:39 PM

I was expecting Cammas to participate in the next AC, but with his ''own'' syndicate .. WOW. Is it the only thing missing from Cammas repertoire?

 

Yep! Only this "tiny" America's Cup and the Monaco Optimist Team Race (http://www.yacht-clu...-race-in91.html).

 

Kersauson is very known in France and adds a lot of possibilities for the team to land the sponsors they need...



#11 pierrec

pierrec

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Location:paris
  • Interests:racing, boat design

Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:40 PM

My dream comes true! Well, they are yet quite far from the start line, but this is really great news!

 

Les Sail Anarchistes Français, où êtes-vous?!

On est la!

Very happy indeed. And if they read SA, where do we apply for the design team?? :)



#12 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,622 posts

Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:47 PM

Now, will Bruno & Loick be content to stay out of the show?  Would love to see both teams make a go.



#13 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,622 posts

Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:52 PM

Has this been reported on this board before?:


 

"...

 

...the "Extreme Sailing Series" in 2014, competition match racing catamarans 40 feet. Series that Emirates Team New Zealand, finalist of the America's Cup or Artemis challenger in 2013 will participate next year.

 

..."

 

From Stinger's link, above: 

http://translate.goo...5537-2013-12-11



#14 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,622 posts

Posted 11 December 2013 - 06:54 PM

Another blurb from the above link:


 

"...

 

Regarding recruitment, one name was filtered, the Michel Kermarec, designer of Team USA appendages Oracle.

 

..."



#15 maxmini

maxmini

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,975 posts

Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:03 PM

Based on the AC 34 results when France went 0 for 3 when none of the three teams started were able to make it to the line they should put all their limited eggs in one basket this time around .



#16 BalticBandit

BalticBandit

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,728 posts

Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:17 PM

Except that you have Cammas and GroupAma behind this.   And that's a team that now has a substantial number of years of large scale project experience behind them.  A lot of it in multihulls.

 

and it also has the C-Class Championship win with foiling in their pocket.

 

This is probably a more credible threat than ETNZ ever was.



#17 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,622 posts

Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:19 PM

Based on the AC 34 results when France went 0 for 3 when none of the three teams started were able to make it to the line they should put all their limited eggs in one basket this time around .

 

I don't know.  The nation is big enough, sailing is a big enough interest, and there are enough big companies, that if public interest grew because there are rival teams, it might actually be beneficial to have more than one team.  They have enough great sailors, and great designers/builders.  Energy was truly a professional, well-organized team.  But Aleph was pretty amateurish, and OdK never really got their effort rolling.  Also, you have to always consider that AC34 was an untested trial, no model to go by.  The finals may be something that really is marketable to French fans and French companies.

 

By the way, Clean, were you able to get a talk in with Bruno Peyron while you were over there, as you had hoped?



#18 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,622 posts

Posted 11 December 2013 - 09:26 PM

Based on the AC 34 results when France went 0 for 3 when none of the three teams started were able to make it to the line they should put all their limited eggs in one basket this time around .

 

I also wonder if Energy & Spindrift could merge efforts . . . tapping some Bertarelli $$$ through Dona instead of Ernesto (or with Ernesto, if need be).  As much of a kick ass boat BPV is, may not be too interesting to focus on these days with few records left to chase and no viable challengers looming.



#19 ~Stingray~

~Stingray~

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,762 posts

Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:20 PM

More here, in English
http://www.sail-worl...oat-Show/117551

#20 BalticBandit

BalticBandit

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,728 posts

Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:52 PM

What's interesting is that Baron Bich is in... the family has had Cup Fever for a long long long time

 

With a personal fortune estimated at 1.4 bill euro ($1.7US Bill) - Bruno Bich could fund a $200mil campaign all by himself.  Toss in Groupama as the "BMW" part of BMWO  and CanalTV  which is the french equiv of Viacom - and you've got the pockets and the organizational knowhow to do this.

 

  • the Bich's have long been involved in the AC (Marcel the late dad ran 3 tries back in the 12 meter days)
  • Groupama has forgotten more about multihull geometry than ETNZ ever knew
  • Canal TV gives you the distro rights to a region that has as many viewers as the USA - but which currently is already able to support a cable/satellite Sailing Channel
  • France has 60 million people NZ has 1/12th that
  • The French Government needs a distraction from some of its less than popular policies.

This seems to be a pretty solid effort then

 

Team Bic-Groupama France:  BCF... with Canal TV giving Bic and Groupama advertising coverage that Ellison could only dream of....  http://www.canalsat.....html?chaine=27



#21 The Advocate

The Advocate

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,350 posts
  • Location:32.00.13 S 115.50.73 E

Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:55 PM

Very cool news!



#22 aldo

aldo

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,227 posts
  • Interests:Getting guys to put their white sticky stuff all over my face.

Posted 11 December 2013 - 10:56 PM

What's interesting is that Baron Bich is in... the family has had Cup Fever for a long long long time

Wait a minute... while I scratch my head?

I think he's still dead.

#23 Liquid Assett NZ

Liquid Assett NZ

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 458 posts
  • Location:Wellington
  • Interests:Sailing, AC,

Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:21 PM

Great stuff go france 



#24 Asymptote

Asymptote

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,512 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:27 PM

What's interesting is that Baron Bich is in... the family has had Cup Fever for a long long long time

Wait a minute... while I scratch my head?

I think he's still dead.

That's the wonderful thing about hereditary titles...they are the gift that keeps on giving.  



#25 Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,704 posts

Posted 11 December 2013 - 11:36 PM

Cammas is good, Desjoyeaux even better.

 

They are a much, much stronger team than Baron Bich and Pajot.



#26 SW Sailor

SW Sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,446 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:03 AM

More here, in English
http://www.sail-worl...oat-Show/117551

 

That's a good read - highlights the depth of the campaign and their extensive history with multihulls.

 

If they can secure adequate funding grumpy will really have to shake things up to be in the running. He will have his hands full with these guys on the line and I suspect he knows it. .

 

If they exhibit half the professionalism Loick did they will be a valued challenger in the event. And hopefully their fans will be much nicer than the resident froggie troll.

 

Interesting that some have said short of the protocol and venue being announced teams have nothing to sell. Look at AC34, the technology and the finals. Couldn't disagree more. Going into AC34 everything was unknown - not the case any longer.



#27 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,622 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:17 AM

Now, assuming the rumors about preliminary regattas happening in the nations of the challengers, where are we most likely to see these guys stage a regatta.  If I remember correctly, Cammas has staged his efforts in both the Med and Brittany.  So, would they do a regatta in Marseille, or Lorient/Brest?  And of course we always have to do this, if they were to win the Cup, where would they then hold AC36? 

 

If any team were to Steel the Cup away from America, I think it would be most compelling and the most exciting sailing in AC36 if it were to go to France.



#28 Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,704 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:26 AM

Now, assuming the rumors about preliminary regattas happening in the nations of the challengers, where are we most likely to see these guys stage a regatta.  If I remember correctly, Cammas has staged his efforts in both the Med and Brittany.  So, would they do a regatta in Marseille, or Lorient/Brest?  And of course we always have to do this, if they were to win the Cup, where would they then hold AC36? 

 

If any team were to Steel the Cup away from America, I think it would be most compelling and the most exciting sailing in AC36 if it were to go to France.

Cammas could have a preference for the South, Desjoyeaux and Kersauson are from Brest.

However Cammas boats are mainly located in Lorient, Desjoyeaux between Brest and Lorient at Port Laforêt.

My favorite would obviously be Brest, natural amphitheater, most of the time windy (but not as regular as the SF wind factory).



#29 SW Sailor

SW Sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,446 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:27 AM

Cammas is good, Desjoyeaux even better.

 

They are a much, much stronger team than Baron Bich and Pajot.

 

Isn't it about time for more of your famous predictions that are always right ?

 

Don't hold back now froggie, you have a team in the mix :)



#30 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,622 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:29 AM

Now, assuming the rumors about preliminary regattas happening in the nations of the challengers, where are we most likely to see these guys stage a regatta.  If I remember correctly, Cammas has staged his efforts in both the Med and Brittany.  So, would they do a regatta in Marseille, or Lorient/Brest?  And of course we always have to do this, if they were to win the Cup, where would they then hold AC36? 

 

If any team were to Steel the Cup away from America, I think it would be most compelling and the most exciting sailing in AC36 if it were to go to France.

Cammas could have a preference for the South, Desjoyeaux and Kersauson are from Brest.

However Cammas boats are mainly located in Lorient, Desjoyeaux between Brest and Lorient at Port Laforêt.

My favorite would obviously be Brest, natural amphitheater, most of the time windy (but not as regular as the SF wind factory).

 

Marseilles has a pretty good wind machine, pretty good viewing arena, and HUGE spectator potential, wouldn't you think?  Wasn't the finish/start of The Race a huge success in Marseilles?



#31 Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,704 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:31 AM

Cammas is good, Desjoyeaux even better.

 

They are a much, much stronger team than Baron Bich and Pajot.

 

Isn't it about time for more of your famous predictions that are always right ?

 

Don't hold back now froggie, you have a team in the mix :)

Why do you presume I only have one nationality ? :)



#32 Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,704 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:33 AM

 

Now, assuming the rumors about preliminary regattas happening in the nations of the challengers, where are we most likely to see these guys stage a regatta.  If I remember correctly, Cammas has staged his efforts in both the Med and Brittany.  So, would they do a regatta in Marseille, or Lorient/Brest?  And of course we always have to do this, if they were to win the Cup, where would they then hold AC36? 

 

If any team were to Steel the Cup away from America, I think it would be most compelling and the most exciting sailing in AC36 if it were to go to France.

Cammas could have a preference for the South, Desjoyeaux and Kersauson are from Brest.

However Cammas boats are mainly located in Lorient, Desjoyeaux between Brest and Lorient at Port Laforêt.

My favorite would obviously be Brest, natural amphitheater, most of the time windy (but not as regular as the SF wind factory).

 

Marseilles has a pretty good wind machine, pretty good viewing arena, and HUGE spectator potential, wouldn't you think?  Wasn't the finish/start of The Race a huge success in Marseilles?

Could be good but people from Marseilles are not are interested by sailing as public from Brittany.

Marseille is great when the Mistral is blowing, but it's not always the case.



#33 SW Sailor

SW Sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,446 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:34 AM

 

Cammas is good, Desjoyeaux even better.

 

They are a much, much stronger team than Baron Bich and Pajot.

 

Isn't it about time for more of your famous predictions that are always right ?

 

Don't hold back now froggie, you have a team in the mix :)

Why do you presume I only have one nationality ? :)

 

Why do you assume I think that ? Almost no one does, but you piped up about three years back about the French winning the cup froggie  :)

 

Now's not the time to back down from supporting your team just because you've attacked OR for 5 years by supporting anyone and everyone that they faced.

 

Don't want people to take shots at you for the shots you took at them for the past 5 years ?

 

Have some balls and man up, pussy.

 

No balls = no class :)



#34 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,622 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:00 AM

Can we not have this thread plunge into the sewer quite yet.  We should all be stoked the French appear to be mounting a challenge that should go all the way through to the LV.  We will have several years to fling shit at each other.



#35 SW Sailor

SW Sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,446 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:08 AM

Oh I'm very stoked the French have announced their intent to enter, for several reasons.

 

Karma has been building for over 5 years - it wants to be free.

 

Not to worry, TC has gone into hiding like TK knowing this was inevitably going to happen.



#36 MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS

MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,534 posts
  • Location:33.98.n 118.45. w

Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:44 AM

Big announcement at Nautic 2013 in Paris.

 

a new team is born for the 35 America cup.

interesting duo: Cammas and Desjoyaux.

 

here:

http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/popup/nautic-2013-35e-coupe-de-l-america-s-cup-cammas-desjoyeaux-et-kersauson-cap-sur-la-cup/

good news congrats and good luck to them 



#37 BalticBandit

BalticBandit

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,728 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:00 AM

 

Now, assuming the rumors about preliminary regattas happening in the nations of the challengers, where are we most likely to see these guys stage a regatta.  If I remember correctly, Cammas has staged his efforts in both the Med and Brittany.  So, would they do a regatta in Marseille, or Lorient/Brest?  And of course we always have to do this, if they were to win the Cup, where would they then hold AC36? 

 

If any team were to Steel the Cup away from America, I think it would be most compelling and the most exciting sailing in AC36 if it were to go to France.

Cammas could have a preference for the South, Desjoyeaux and Kersauson are from Brest.

However Cammas boats are mainly located in Lorient, Desjoyeaux between Brest and Lorient at Port Laforêt.

My favorite would obviously be Brest, natural amphitheater, most of the time windy (but not as regular as the SF wind factory).

 

Marseilles has a pretty good wind machine, pretty good viewing arena, and HUGE spectator potential, wouldn't you think?  Wasn't the finish/start of The Race a huge success in Marseilles?

Way more French money in Britanny (particularly OLD money - which is sigificant in France) than in the Med.  Plus Paris is closer as is England.  So from a marketing perspective, Britttany would be where I would guess.  But first they have to win



#38 bruno

bruno

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,812 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:31 AM

There is a tipping point between hubris ("overweening pride") and confidence, many times in Homer the victors justify their hubristic acts in the name of righting past wrongs. So as much fun as it is to dredge up past mistaken pronouncements and nonfactual bullshit (thanks to the God, Internet, may he be praised), some balances should go without redress in full. Because one can tempt the Gods to intervene, as we may have witnessed recently. Those the Gods would smite down first they raise up.

And Friday the 13th comes on a Friday this month.

#39 Big Show

Big Show

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,386 posts
  • Location:T'ic' o' Fog

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:31 AM

Cammas has been the best at everything he's touched from beach cats to ORMA (!) to all the records he set on Groupama 3.  

 

Oh yeah, and he won both the VOR and LAC, on foils, first time out. His success at so many things in boats of all sizes is unfathomable. 

 

Desjoyeaux? Quality… So much quality.   

 

If a major French sponsor can't make the numbers work on this and there's not enough billionaire $$$ to make this happen I'll cry. Imagine Franck vs. Sir Ben LVC. Think about it!?



#40 Keith

Keith

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,546 posts
  • Location:Vancouver B.C.

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:34 AM

Excellent news, Extensive multihull experience, in building, racing, and winning.....

 

This is a good thing.. ;)



#41 Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,704 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 03:56 AM

They need 20 M Euros, Groupama will be one of the sponsors.

Do not pretend to have a complete team by now, need 80 team members.

Want to hire Breton Mick Kermarec, genius designer of OR foils, if... not too late.

 

http://www.ouest-fra...rsauson-1780686

 

http://www.eurosport...568/story.shtml



#42 Bill R

Bill R

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 183 posts
  • Location:NZ
  • Interests:sailing

Posted 12 December 2013 - 04:15 AM

More here, in English
http://www.sail-worl...oat-Show/117551

 

That's a good read - highlights the depth of the campaign and their extensive history with multihulls.

 

If they can secure adequate funding grumpy will really have to shake things up to be in the running. He will have his hands full with these guys on the line and I suspect he knows it. .

 

If they exhibit half the professionalism Loick did they will be a valued challenger in the event. And hopefully their fans will be much nicer than the resident froggie troll.

 

Interesting that some have said short of the protocol and venue being announced teams have nothing to sell. Look at AC34, the technology and the finals. Couldn't disagree more. Going into AC34 everything was unknown - not the case any longer.

Well if they end up better than ETNZ then Oracle are looking like gone burgers. 



#43 Laurent

Laurent

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 344 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 04:26 AM

They need 20 M Euros.... per year... and nobody knows yet when the next cup is.

 

Translating literally Cammas on the second article below:

"it's a minimum, but it would allow us to go"

 

It is a bit ambiguous in French, and I tried to keep it that way in the translation above. I am not sure if he means that it would allow them to go all the way to the LVC, of if it would allow them to kickstart the campaign... I am leaning towards the first interpretation.

 

 

They need 20 M Euros, Groupama will be one of the sponsors.

Do not pretend to have a complete team by now, need 80 team members.

Want to hire Breton Mick Kermarec, genius designer of OR foils, if... not too late.

 

http://www.ouest-fra...rsauson-1780686

 

http://www.eurosport...568/story.shtml



#44 maxmini

maxmini

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,975 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 05:21 AM

Based on the AC 34 results when France went 0 for 3 when none of the three teams started were able to make it to the line they should put all their limited eggs in one basket this time around .

 

I don't know.  The nation is big enough, sailing is a big enough interest, and there are enough big companies, that if public interest grew because there are rival teams, it might actually be beneficial to have more than one team.  They have enough great sailors, and great designers/builders.  Energy was truly a professional, well-organized team.  But Aleph was pretty amateurish, and OdK never really got their effort rolling.  Also, you have to always consider that AC34 was an untested trial, no model to go by.  The finals may be something that really is marketable to French fans and French companies.

 

By the way, Clean, were you able to get a talk in with Bruno Peyron while you were over there, as you had hoped?

 

That's pretty much a cut and paste as to what you said for the last go round and how did that end up ?

 

If they put their resources behind one team they may actually show up to the line this time.



#45 Sailbydate

Sailbydate

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,182 posts
  • Location:Wellington NZL
  • Interests:Sailing. Classic Yachts. Following what's happening in development classes.

Posted 12 December 2013 - 05:49 AM

Excellent news. Should be a strong team if they secure the funding they need.



#46 SW Sailor

SW Sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,446 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 06:20 AM

 

More here, in English
http://www.sail-worl...oat-Show/117551

 

That's a good read - highlights the depth of the campaign and their extensive history with multihulls.

 

If they can secure adequate funding grumpy will really have to shake things up to be in the running. He will have his hands full with these guys on the line and I suspect he knows it. .

 

If they exhibit half the professionalism Loick did they will be a valued challenger in the event. And hopefully their fans will be much nicer than the resident froggie troll.

 

Interesting that some have said short of the protocol and venue being announced teams have nothing to sell. Look at AC34, the technology and the finals. Couldn't disagree more. Going into AC34 everything was unknown - not the case any longer.

Well if they end up better than ETNZ then Oracle are looking like gone burgers. 

 

Funny thing about a fair event eh ? Everyone has a legitimate chance to win.

 

One of ET's advantages as a challenger was that it was a short 3 year cycle which grumpy pushed for and they already had $86M in funding and a team in place. The extra year and proven concept certainly looks to have opened the door for more challengers that will likely be better prepared. OR will just have to meet the challenge to be competitive, as I expect the protocol will again provide a level playing field. Should be a good event regardless.



#47 dogwatch

dogwatch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,249 posts
  • Location:South Coast, UK
  • Interests:Racing in all forms.

Posted 12 December 2013 - 06:32 AM

Some serious backers there if I'm reading this correctly.


Hmm ... I'd hold my chevaux if I were you ..

 

"We have no partners (financial) but Groupama (sponsor its historical, ed) allows us to secure for two years"

 

So that's significant seed money. Plus Bich (is that fils or petit fils?) could, if he chose, bring private money.

 

If Ainslie could make a similar announcement I'd be a happy doggie.



#48 erictra20

erictra20

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:03 AM

Cammas is now the only one in France with enough talent to win the Cup for France. He is trying to have a unique team and that's why he partnered with Desjoyeaux and Kersauson. That was the goal of many french teams in previous ACs : start before the others and propose them to join rather than compete. It never worked but today it could be different. 

There's only one guy who could harm (at least a little) the whole thing and it's Bruno Peyron. He is not part of this game and seems to be pissed by yesterday announcment. He just said on twitter last night : "interesting isn't it" and later deleted his tweet...

It also seems that the guys behind him on the AC34 are now fully supporting Cammas and TeamFrance so I don't see what Peyron could do alone. I just hope that his ego will not ruin all the effort that is being made. 



#49 SW Sailor

SW Sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,446 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:12 AM

Thanks for the insight - hopefully politics won't undermine the effort.



#50 Kernow

Kernow

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:39 AM

They need 20 M Euros, Groupama will be one of the sponsors.

Except that Groupama are stressing they are not. They talk about a "non-financial participation"

"Groupama, whose partnership with Franck Cammas will draw to a close at the end of 2015, will not be sponsoring this competition under any circumstances."

So basically no money as yet.

Canal + already covered the last America's Cup on their pay channel, so not a huge change there either.



#51 FAiRaWAY

FAiRaWAY

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts
  • Interests:rugby

Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:09 AM

(google translation)

interview Cammas:

What has inspired you to embark on this project?

- « It is obvious: the America's Cup is the Holy Grail of sailing. As an athlete, you always want to win that is impossible to win. I think this is the right time. With the Volvo Ocean Race (round the world with stopovers crew and he won in 2012), we showed that we could beat the Anglo-Saxons in their world. »

 

There are great people around you but not Peyron brothers. Why?

- « We started talking. It is not yet ripe for it shows something in common. It is clear that only the unit will operate. If you go to the America's Cup is necessarily together. We need everyone finds his place and involvement allows performance. Should not that self-destructs. But all doors must be open. »

 

You mentioned 20 million per year over four years of budget. It seems light by the standards of the competition, right?

- « No. Over four years, that's 80 million, enough. If they were, we start with a good chance to be successful. There is not the money, there is also time. It is true that at the end, maybe a little more than 20 million per year will be. »

 

What will make your project succeed when others have failed?

- « Before this presentation, we exchanged with interesting world and away from the marine environment. There is a strong enough response, with this union, personalities around the table, legitimacy, performances and each other in recent years. This leads us to say that there has never been strong from the start. I do not know if it will go to the end but I'm sure we will be performing. If companies follow us, they will be far from unhappy. »

 

 

Stéphane Kandler :

- « What attracted me is the unifying aspect of the project. Franck said he needed everyone. It was essential. There had been previous attempts at rapprochement in the past between different challenges , but it had never worked. This time , the game is clear , these are not just words. I am confident that given the image of the Cup in France , mount a project of national ambition, a bit like the New Zealanders but with our specificities. This ambition is initiated today in the presence of people who have great legitimacy . I am convinced that this is a good combination , all the ingredients are combined. Afterwards, he is not to be waffling . There are many uncertainties and the idea is not to proclaim that we will crush everyone. One must keep in mind that participate in the America remains something very complicated and need to find money. But the basics are good. If I shall again is that I'm sure it will work. I also observed that potential partners had the ear . »

 

 

Bruno Peyron's reaction (Energy Team) :

- « There will be two AC 45 French colors on the start line of the World Series, probably in 2015. There will be a Franck Cammas at the helm side and on the other, Yann Guichard. In our case, everything is in place, our team is lapped after three years of circuit. The two teams will go hunting partnerships with the same approach and the same union will sustain a chain. »

- « We have a common responsibility, I want to keep the outstretched hand. We need to protect the future. It has a bit of time talking with Frank, we get along well and we agree on many things, but it is not yet ripe. »



#52 edouard

edouard

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 392 posts
  • Interests:Leisure sailing for 35 years with anything windpowered from Hobies to Classic Keelboats

Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:24 AM

Cammas is now the only one in France with enough talent to win the Cup for France. He is trying to have a unique team and that's why he partnered with Desjoyeaux and Kersauson. That was the goal of many french teams in previous ACs : start before the others and propose them to join rather than compete. It never worked but today it could be different. 
There's only one guy who could harm (at least a little) the whole thing and it's Bruno Peyron. He is not part of this game and seems to be pissed by yesterday announcment. He just said on twitter last night : "interesting isn't it" and later deleted his tweet...
It also seems that the guys behind him on the AC34 are now fully supporting Cammas and TeamFrance so I don't see what Peyron could do alone. I just hope that his ego will not ruin all the effort that is being made. 

 
Loick had already previously announced he wouldn't try to build a Team again, which further undermines his brother's hopes.
 
http://www.dailymoti...ck-peyron_sport

#53 dogwatch

dogwatch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,249 posts
  • Location:South Coast, UK
  • Interests:Racing in all forms.

Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:48 AM

Except that Groupama are stressing they are not. They talk about a "non-financial participation"


 

"Groupama, whose partnership with Franck Cammas will draw to a close at the end of 2015, will not be sponsoring this competition under any circumstances."

 

But we also have:

 

"We have no partners (financial) but Groupama (sponsor its historical, ed) allows us to secure for two years"

 

All too subtle for my Anglo mind to process.



#54 edouard

edouard

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 392 posts
  • Interests:Leisure sailing for 35 years with anything windpowered from Hobies to Classic Keelboats

Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:55 AM

Except that Groupama are stressing they are not. They talk about a "non-financial participation"


 

"Groupama, whose partnership with Franck Cammas will draw to a close at the end of 2015, will not be sponsoring this competition under any circumstances."

 

But we also have:

 

"We have no partners (financial) but Groupama (sponsor its historical, ed) allows us to secure for two years"

 

All too subtle for my Anglo mind to process.

 

It's the not to subtle google tanslation that is at fault. Groupama will finance Cammas' team's other sports program until end of 2015: "Tour de France à la voile, au circuit international Extreme 40, au championnat du monde de Class C et navigation en Nacra 17, support de la voile olympique", but wont put a dime in the AC team.



#55 Kernow

Kernow

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:06 AM

I think from seeing the Groupama version on their website it means that Groupama are basically supporting Cammas in the Extreme Sailing Series, Olympics and Tour de France as planned for the next two years and offering a few words of encouragement but not much else for the Cup.  What strikes me is their insistence they are not involved financially under any circumstances.

 

 

http://www.cammas-gr..._equipe_380.jsp



#56 edouard

edouard

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 392 posts
  • Interests:Leisure sailing for 35 years with anything windpowered from Hobies to Classic Keelboats

Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:09 AM

I think from seeing the Groupama version on their website it means that Groupama are basically supporting Cammas in the Extreme Sailing Series, Olympics and Tour de France as planned for the next two years and offering a few words of encouragement but not much else for the Cup.  What strikes me is their insistence they are not involved financially under any circumstances.

 

 

http://www.cammas-gr..._equipe_380.jsp

 

Groupama was hit very bad in the financial crisis, lost a lot of money and had to cut jobs. They supported Cammas in the VOR because the program had been decided prior to the crisis, but throwing millions in the AC would never fly with the shareholders.



#57 moody frog

moody frog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,520 posts
  • Location:Brittany

Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:16 AM




Now, assuming the rumors about preliminary regattas happening in the nations of the challengers, where are we most likely to see these guys stage a regatta.  If I remember correctly, Cammas has staged his efforts in both the Med and Brittany.  So, would they do a regatta in Marseille, or Lorient/Brest?  And of course we always have to do this, if they were to win the Cup, where would they then hold AC36? 
 
If any team were to Steel the Cup away from America, I think it would be most compelling and the most exciting sailing in AC36 if it were to go to France.

Cammas could have a preference for the South, Desjoyeaux and Kersauson are from Brest.
However Cammas boats are mainly located in Lorient, Desjoyeaux between Brest and Lorient at Port Laforêt.
My favorite would obviously be Brest, natural amphitheater, most of the time windy (but not as regular as the SF wind factory).


 
Marseilles has a pretty good wind machine, pretty good viewing arena, and HUGE spectator potential, wouldn't you think?  Wasn't the finish/start of The Race a huge success in Marseilles?


Way more French money in Britanny (particularly OLD money - which is sigificant in France) than in the Med.  Plus Paris is closer as is England.  So from a marketing perspective, Britttany would be where I would guess.  But first they have to win


Sorry to disagree but there is WAY MORE money (particularly old one) in Marseilles alone than in the whole of Brittany, there are a few current business (read tied money) billionaires west but nothing to compare in total with the past century establishment in Marseille.
It is doubtful though that the various "components" of the old Marseille gentry want to show-off anymore than the discreet Bretons, particularly in the current state of things in France - as the sentence goes "If you want to live happy, live hidden".

#58 dogwatch

dogwatch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,249 posts
  • Location:South Coast, UK
  • Interests:Racing in all forms.

Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:18 AM

So this is either 1. a significant challenge from the strongest multi-hull nation on the planet or 2. a shallow attempt at a land-grab to head off alternate French challengers' search for €€€ from a team that is yet to attract any sponsors of its own.

 

I really don't know which. I'm not sure it's even possible to know.



#59 moody frog

moody frog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,520 posts
  • Location:Brittany

Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:45 AM


Now, assuming the rumors about preliminary regattas happening in the nations of the challengers, where are we most likely to see these guys stage a regatta.  If I remember correctly, Cammas has staged his efforts in both the Med and Brittany.  So, would they do a regatta in Marseille, or Lorient/Brest?  And of course we always have to do this, if they were to win the Cup, where would they then hold AC36? 
 
If any team were to Steel the Cup away from America, I think it would be most compelling and the most exciting sailing in AC36 if it were to go to France.

Cammas could have a preference for the South, Desjoyeaux and Kersauson are from Brest.
However Cammas boats are mainly located in Lorient, Desjoyeaux between Brest and Lorient at Port Laforêt.
My favorite would obviously be Brest, natural amphitheater, most of the time windy (but not as regular as the SF wind factory).


Sure Brest natural Harbour is nice and AC races have downsized, but it would be funny to see one race cancelled on its morning, by order of the Admiral, because one Nuclear submarine has to go out or is coming in. (Race committees have to be on standby on the Admiralty VHF channel and warnings come at the latest moment for secrecy reasons)

#60 erictra20

erictra20

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:08 PM

Bruno Peyron's reaction (Energy Team) :

- « There will be two AC 45 French colors on the start line of the World Series, probably in 2015. There will be a Franck Cammas at the helm side and on the other, Yann Guichard. In our case, everything is in place, our team is lapped after three years of circuit. The two teams will go hunting partnerships with the same approach and the same union will sustain a chain. »

- « We have a common responsibility, I want to keep the outstretched hand. We need to protect the future. It has a bit of time talking with Frank, we get along well and we agree on many things, but it is not yet ripe. »

 

Where have you found this quote?



#61 JarVah

JarVah

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Location:Hampshire, UK
  • Interests:Ocean crossing, local racing

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:13 PM

Very exciting news - only wish that us Brits were ready to put our oar in right now.



#62 Laurent

Laurent

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 344 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:19 PM

 

Now, assuming the rumors about preliminary regattas happening in the nations of the challengers, where are we most likely to see these guys stage a regatta.  If I remember correctly, Cammas has staged his efforts in both the Med and Brittany.  So, would they do a regatta in Marseille, or Lorient/Brest?  And of course we always have to do this, if they were to win the Cup, where would they then hold AC36? 
 
If any team were to Steel the Cup away from America, I think it would be most compelling and the most exciting sailing in AC36 if it were to go to France.

Cammas could have a preference for the South, Desjoyeaux and Kersauson are from Brest.
However Cammas boats are mainly located in Lorient, Desjoyeaux between Brest and Lorient at Port Laforêt.
My favorite would obviously be Brest, natural amphitheater, most of the time windy (but not as regular as the SF wind factory).

 

Sure Brest natural Harbour is nice and AC races have downsized, but it would be funny to see one race cancelled on its morning, by order of the Admiral, because one Nuclear submarine has to go out or is coming in. (Race committees have to be on standby on the Admiralty VHF channel and warnings come at the latest moment for secrecy reasons)

 

 

Guys, don't you think it is a little bit premature to ponder where AC36 should be, once Franck Cammas has won AC35???...

 

He does not even have a sponsor yet... As explained above; the participation of Groupama for the AC will be a big "attaboy!" and that's it.



#63 FAiRaWAY

FAiRaWAY

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts
  • Interests:rugby

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:22 PM

Bruno Peyron's reaction (Energy Team) :

- « There will be two AC 45 French colors on the start line of the World Series, probably in 2015. There will be a Franck Cammas at the helm side and on the other, Yann Guichard. In our case, everything is in place, our team is lapped after three years of circuit. The two teams will go hunting partnerships with the same approach and the same union will sustain a chain. »

- « We have a common responsibility, I want to keep the outstretched hand. We need to protect the future. It has a bit of time talking with Frank, we get along well and we agree on many things, but it is not yet ripe. »

 

Where have you found this quote?

 

I subscribe to l'Equipe.

 

 
 
Amongst all the biggest french companies, which one of them are a possibility to become a main sponsor for Cammas?
for example, can AREVA come back to this? (since Kandler is involved) it's a worldwide presence...
 
Vivendi (Universal, canal +), EADS, LVMH (Louis Vuitton), Total?
none of them?


#64 erictra20

erictra20

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 23 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 12:41 PM

You can forget about LVMH. Bernard Arnault is not interested in sailing at all and Louis Vuitton has even stopped its sponsoring. There is no more LVCup.



#65 Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,704 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:30 PM

 

Now, assuming the rumors about preliminary regattas happening in the nations of the challengers, where are we most likely to see these guys stage a regatta.  If I remember correctly, Cammas has staged his efforts in both the Med and Brittany.  So, would they do a regatta in Marseille, or Lorient/Brest?  And of course we always have to do this, if they were to win the Cup, where would they then hold AC36? 
 
If any team were to Steel the Cup away from America, I think it would be most compelling and the most exciting sailing in AC36 if it were to go to France.

Cammas could have a preference for the South, Desjoyeaux and Kersauson are from Brest.
However Cammas boats are mainly located in Lorient, Desjoyeaux between Brest and Lorient at Port Laforêt.
My favorite would obviously be Brest, natural amphitheater, most of the time windy (but not as regular as the SF wind factory).

 

Sure Brest natural Harbour is nice and AC races have downsized, but it would be funny to see one race cancelled on its morning, by order of the Admiral, because one Nuclear submarine has to go out or is coming in. (Race committees have to be on standby on the Admiralty VHF channel and warnings come at the latest moment for secrecy reasons)

OR has been able to get an agreement with the USCG, I guess they could do the same with the admiralty, mainly as the AC agenda is given months before.

The amphitheater could go from the Moulin Blanc to Plougastel and perhaps the commercial harbour, depending of the size of the race.



#66 aldo

aldo

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,227 posts
  • Interests:Getting guys to put their white sticky stuff all over my face.

Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:31 PM

You can forget about LVMH. Bernard Arnault is not interested in sailing at all and Louis Vuitton has even stopped its sponsoring. There is no more LVCup.

If this is correct, it is terrible news.

#67 Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,704 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 01:39 PM

They need 20 M Euros.... per year... and nobody knows yet when the next cup is.

 

Translating literally Cammas on the second article below:

"it's a minimum, but it would allow us to go"

 

It is a bit ambiguous in French, and I tried to keep it that way in the translation above. I am not sure if he means that it would allow them to go all the way to the LVC, of if it would allow them to kickstart the campaign... I am leaning towards the first interpretation.

 

 

They need 20 M Euros, Groupama will be one of the sponsors.

Do not pretend to have a complete team by now, need 80 team members.

Want to hire Breton Mick Kermarec, genius designer of OR foils, if... not too late.

 

http://www.ouest-fra...rsauson-1780686

 

http://www.eurosport...568/story.shtml

Agreed, the "minimum" of 20 M looks a bit like what the Peyron trying to get an entry budget. We know how it ended.

On the other hand the kiwis got a full budget before beginning.



#68 Xlot

Xlot

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,674 posts
  • Location:Rome

Posted 12 December 2013 - 02:17 PM

I think from seeing the Groupama version on their website it means that Groupama are basically supporting Cammas in the Extreme Sailing Series, ...


In fact, Groupama's original X40 has been listed for ages in the For Sale section of SH ..

#69 moody frog

moody frog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,520 posts
  • Location:Brittany

Posted 12 December 2013 - 04:05 PM




Now, assuming the rumors about preliminary regattas happening in the nations of the challengers, where are we most likely to see these guys stage a regatta.  If I remember correctly, Cammas has staged his efforts in both the Med and Brittany.  So, would they do a regatta in Marseille, or Lorient/Brest?  And of course we always have to do this, if they were to win the Cup, where would they then hold AC36? 
 
If any team were to Steel the Cup away from America, I think it would be most compelling and the most exciting sailing in AC36 if it were to go to France.

Cammas could have a preference for the South, Desjoyeaux and Kersauson are from Brest.
However Cammas boats are mainly located in Lorient, Desjoyeaux between Brest and Lorient at Port Laforêt.
My favorite would obviously be Brest, natural amphitheater, most of the time windy (but not as regular as the SF wind factory).


Sure Brest natural Harbour is nice and AC races have downsized, but it would be funny to see one race cancelled on its morning, by order of the Admiral, because one Nuclear submarine has to go out or is coming in. (Race committees have to be on standby on the Admiralty VHF channel and warnings come at the latest moment for secrecy reasons)


OR has been able to get an agreement with the USCG, I guess they could do the same with the admiralty, mainly as the AC agenda is given months before.
The amphitheater could go from the Moulin Blanc to Plougastel and perhaps the commercial harbour, depending of the size of the race.


There is clearly no possible agreement/planning regarding the nuclear bombs carrying subs, they have instant priority on the full natural harbout and their movements are secret till the last minute. (believe me their "seals" escort are usually short of words but very convincing).
;)

Moulin Blanc to Plougastel is 1 NM + something only.
Longest leg you could have is kind of 3 to 3.5 miles, just just enough.

#70 edouard

edouard

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 392 posts
  • Interests:Leisure sailing for 35 years with anything windpowered from Hobies to Classic Keelboats

Posted 12 December 2013 - 07:05 PM

There is clearly no possible agreement/planning regarding the nuclear bombs carrying subs

 

, they have instant priority on the full natural harbout and their movements are secret till the last minute. (believe me their "seals" escort are usually short of words but very convincing).
;)

Moulin Blanc to Plougastel is 1 NM + something only.
Longest leg you could have is kind of 3 to 3.5 miles, just just enough.

 

Yup, and that is exactly why Franck would have the Cup there because ... he and his team have already been practicing avoidance maneuvers.

 



#71 Rombzh

Rombzh

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Location:Hoboken, NJ / Brest, Brittany

Posted 12 December 2013 - 07:30 PM

There is clearly no possible agreement/planning regarding the nuclear bombs carrying subs, they have instant priority on the full natural harbout and their movements are secret till the last minute. (believe me their "seals" escort are usually short of words but very convincing).
;)

Moulin Blanc to Plougastel is 1 NM + something only.
Longest leg you could have is kind of 3 to 3.5 miles, just just enough.


Here's an overlay of SF Bay on Brest I just did. There would be some room sure... with a stunning view from Pointe des Espagnols. Anyway it's a bit too early for that kind of conversation I guess ! ;)
ymQD5Sp.png
(Link if you want to play with it : http://mapfrappe.com/?show=15079)



#72 Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,704 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 08:23 PM

There is clearly no possible agreement/planning regarding the nuclear bombs carrying subs, they have instant priority on the full natural harbout and their movements are secret till the last minute. (believe me their "seals" escort are usually short of words but very convincing).
;)

Moulin Blanc to Plougastel is 1 NM + something only.
Longest leg you could have is kind of 3 to 3.5 miles, just just enough.


Here's an overlay of SF Bay on Brest I just did. There would be some room sure... with a stunning view from Pointe des Espagnols. Anyway it's a bit too early for that kind of conversation I guess ! ;)
ymQD5Sp.png
(Link if you want to play with it : http://mapfrappe.com/?show=15079)

Correct, there is plenty of room in the rade de Brest. Terrific view from the Pointe des Espagnols or any accessible place in le Goulet. The course could also be close to Le Chateau, le Port de Commerce, no need to get close to the nuclear submarine base of l'Ile Longue.

There are a lot of races and trafic in the Rade, the subs are rarely a problem.

 

Any, long time before seing the Cup in France but we may have the ACWS soon.



#73 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,622 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:09 PM

 

Based on the AC 34 results when France went 0 for 3 when none of the three teams started were able to make it to the line they should put all their limited eggs in one basket this time around .

 

I don't know.  The nation is big enough, sailing is a big enough interest, and there are enough big companies, that if public interest grew because there are rival teams, it might actually be beneficial to have more than one team.  They have enough great sailors, and great designers/builders.  Energy was truly a professional, well-organized team.  But Aleph was pretty amateurish, and OdK never really got their effort rolling.  Also, you have to always consider that AC34 was an untested trial, no model to go by.  The finals may be something that really is marketable to French fans and French companies.

 

By the way, Clean, were you able to get a talk in with Bruno Peyron while you were over there, as you had hoped?

 

That's pretty much a cut and paste as to what you said for the last go round and how did that end up ?

 

If they put their resources behind one team they may actually show up to the line this time.

 

First of all, this time aint last time.  It wasn't just the French that could not pull the trigger last time, it was every team that lacked billionaire funding.  Second, I readily admit I am assuming the organizers are not going to make all the same mistakes.  The fact they are already hinting/announcing that the teams will have the opportunity to host events in their home nations represents a HUGE correction from past mistakes.



#74 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,622 posts

Posted 12 December 2013 - 09:21 PM

 

 

Now, assuming the rumors about preliminary regattas happening in the nations of the challengers, where are we most likely to see these guys stage a regatta.  If I remember correctly, Cammas has staged his efforts in both the Med and Brittany.  So, would they do a regatta in Marseille, or Lorient/Brest?  And of course we always have to do this, if they were to win the Cup, where would they then hold AC36? 
 
If any team were to Steel the Cup away from America, I think it would be most compelling and the most exciting sailing in AC36 if it were to go to France.

Cammas could have a preference for the South, Desjoyeaux and Kersauson are from Brest.
However Cammas boats are mainly located in Lorient, Desjoyeaux between Brest and Lorient at Port Laforêt.
My favorite would obviously be Brest, natural amphitheater, most of the time windy (but not as regular as the SF wind factory).

 

Sure Brest natural Harbour is nice and AC races have downsized, but it would be funny to see one race cancelled on its morning, by order of the Admiral, because one Nuclear submarine has to go out or is coming in. (Race committees have to be on standby on the Admiralty VHF channel and warnings come at the latest moment for secrecy reasons)

 

 

Guys, don't you think it is a little bit premature to ponder where AC36 should be, once Franck Cammas has won AC35???...

 

He does not even have a sponsor yet... As explained above; the participation of Groupama for the AC will be a big "attaboy!" and that's it.

 

This is done every time any team joins the fray.  It's just for fun.  But in this case, it is a bit more than that, as the organizers have announced that the challengers will have the opportunity to host preliminary events in their home nations.



#75 Sailer X

Sailer X

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 371 posts
  • Location:uk

Posted 12 December 2013 - 10:32 PM

Nuclear subs using Plymouth did not stop the ACWS there (hunter killers not the bombers which are at Holy Loch).
 
Great news. There's nothing that will motivate a British team than having a go at the Frogs.

#76 KiwiJoker

KiwiJoker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,748 posts
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:19 PM

You can forget about LVMH. Bernard Arnault is not interested in sailing at all and Louis Vuitton has even stopped its sponsoring. There is no more LVCup.

If this is correct, it is terrible news.

 

Never say never but it is widely understood that Arnault is not interested in sailing.  And Louis Vuitton spent far too much on the challengers series in San Francisco that was a farce. LV likes to have "ownership" of an event or at least a chance to spread their wings. Instead ACEA clipped their wings. 



#77 KiwiJoker

KiwiJoker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,748 posts
  • Location:Auckland, NZ

Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:27 PM

Thunderclap. At Nautic 2013, Franck Cammas and Michel Desjoyeaux unveiled their project Team France - Olivier de Kersauson! "End of 2012, we established our next goal: winning the America's Cup," said Cammas, Oracle co-skipper in 2009 and Luna Rossa in 2012. Franck will be in charge of the sports section, Mich'Desj 'the technological aspect. "Kersauson, he will act as a big brother." Stéphane Kandler lead the team, which will include a club founding members: Bruno Bich (Bic), Bertrand Méheut (Canal +), Thierry Martel (Groupama), Bruno Luisetti (formerly Kraft Jacobs Suchard) and Erik Maris (Messier Maris & Associés ). And if this time it was good? / HH

 

Some serious backers there if I'm reading this correctly.

 

A potentially powerful alliance - if it holds together. Nice to see Bich fils following in the Baron's footsteps. It's been a long time coming. The odd man out in this group appears to be de Kerksauson with his reputation as a lone wolf and wild man, although he appears to have mellowed in recent years. 

 

Good news too that they appear to be in communication with Bruno Peyron who suggests his team and theirs will field AC45s in 2015.  Who knows where it will go from there!



#78 Xlot

Xlot

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,674 posts
  • Location:Rome

Posted 12 December 2013 - 11:37 PM

A potentially powerful alliance - if it holds together....The odd man out in this group appears to be de Kerksauson with his reputation as a lone wolf and wild man, ...


Right - they say a picture is worth a thousand words ..

bdcfaa80f3e5e28eb14ff35e4ac5e72d_zps3a05

#79 Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,704 posts

Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:37 AM

^^ Kerso should buy a new pair of jeans... :)



#80 Scarecrow

Scarecrow

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,559 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Aus

Posted 13 December 2013 - 04:54 AM

who's the beanpole?

#81 dogwatch

dogwatch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,249 posts
  • Location:South Coast, UK
  • Interests:Racing in all forms.

Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:34 AM

  But in this case, it is a bit more than that, as the organizers have announced that the challengers will have the opportunity to host preliminary events in their home nations.

 

Is that so?  AFAIK they've pretty much announced nothing except the identity of the CoR.

 

In AC34 ACWS the issue wasn't who was allowed to host events. It was who could find a host city who was willing to pay the tab. That was the issue and in all probability will continue to be so.



#82 dogwatch

dogwatch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,249 posts
  • Location:South Coast, UK
  • Interests:Racing in all forms.

Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:39 AM

Nuclear subs using Plymouth did not stop the ACWS there (hunter killers not the bombers which are at Holy Loch).
 

 

The race area didn't cross the Tamar, which is the route up to HMNB Devonport. I don't know Brest but it doesn't sound like the same would be true.



#83 Sailbydate

Sailbydate

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,182 posts
  • Location:Wellington NZL
  • Interests:Sailing. Classic Yachts. Following what's happening in development classes.

Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:40 AM

  But in this case, it is a bit more than that, as the organizers have announced that the challengers will have the opportunity to host preliminary events in their home nations.

 

Is that so?  AFAIK they've pretty much announced nothing except the identity of the CoR.

 

In AC34 ACWS the issue wasn't who was allowed to host events. It was who could find a host city who was willing to pay the tab. That was the issue and in all probability will continue to be so.

Except that this time, I understand the idea is that the host city has proprietorship of the event and possibly local media rights.

 

Might make all the difference.



#84 dogwatch

dogwatch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,249 posts
  • Location:South Coast, UK
  • Interests:Racing in all forms.

Posted 13 December 2013 - 05:54 AM

^

 

Where did you read/hear that?



#85 moody frog

moody frog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,520 posts
  • Location:Brittany

Posted 13 December 2013 - 11:56 AM


Nuclear subs using Plymouth did not stop the ACWS there (hunter killers not the bombers which are at Holy Loch).

 
The race area didn't cross the Tamar, which is the route up to HMNB Devonport. I don't know Brest but it doesn't sound like the same would be true.


I have been somehow unprecise in my posts (if this is of any other interest than teasing TC):
Problem does not lie too much in the fact that they are nuclear powered subs but because they are SSBNs (Sub-Surface Ballistic Nuclear) which makes it a different story.

To my knowledge the Royal Navy SSBNs are not based in Devonport but in Gare Loch.

More important, trying to set 3.5 miles legs would necessarily mix-up with the route in an out of the subs base.

In any case Lorient sounds as the most probable choice - should Team France have any money - Cammas mentioned it to the press and is already based there, the town mayor already bidded.

#86 GauchoGreg

GauchoGreg

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,622 posts

Posted 13 December 2013 - 01:33 PM

  But in this case, it is a bit more than that, as the organizers have announced that the challengers will have the opportunity to host preliminary events in their home nations.

 

Is that so?  AFAIK they've pretty much announced nothing except the identity of the CoR.

 

In AC34 ACWS the issue wasn't who was allowed to host events. It was who could find a host city who was willing to pay the tab. That was the issue and in all probability will continue to be so.

 

From what has been announced/leaked, it sounds like it may be the case that the challenger hosts

 

 

  But in this case, it is a bit more than that, as the organizers have announced that the challengers will have the opportunity to host preliminary events in their home nations.

 

Is that so?  AFAIK they've pretty much announced nothing except the identity of the CoR.

 

In AC34 ACWS the issue wasn't who was allowed to host events. It was who could find a host city who was willing to pay the tab. That was the issue and in all probability will continue to be so.

Except that this time, I understand the idea is that the host city has proprietorship of the event and possibly local media rights.

 

Might make all the difference.

 

That is how I saw it, too.  Let's see if we can find where that was stated, for Dog's benefit.



#87 ~Stingray~

~Stingray~

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 14,762 posts

Posted 13 December 2013 - 02:19 PM

It was explicitly suggested by GD in the 'Full' version of the video interview he did this week. May also have been in RC's quotes in the ad for the Jan issue of Yachting World.

GD expressed the wish to hold an event; possibly even without owning TV rights.

#88 Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,704 posts

Posted 13 December 2013 - 06:03 PM

who's the beanpole?

Thierry Martel, Groupama.



#89 Sebyseb

Sebyseb

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Location:Abu Dhabi/Cherbourg
  • Interests:Rhum, roots reggae, chicks and not breaking boats.

Posted 14 December 2013 - 07:02 AM

This is great news. Kersauzon however should stick to selling books recounting war stories , his last attempts to multihull records (and boats) were dated and were failures. 

 

The Peyron brothers , especially Loïc would be a much better addition to raise money. But if Cammas winning streak goes on, that would be quite a feat.

 

Go Team France!



#90 FAiRaWAY

FAiRaWAY

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 15 posts
  • Interests:rugby

Posted 14 December 2013 - 08:56 AM

This is great news. Kersauzon however should stick to selling books recounting war stories , his last attempts to multihull records (and boats) were dated and were failures. 

 

The Peyron brothers , especially Loïc would be a much better addition to raise money. But if Cammas winning streak goes on, that would be quite a feat.

 

Go Team France!

 

well about Kersauzon,  I don't think he will be really involved in the project (don't think he wants too). But it's a smart move to use his name, and his presence in french media, in order to get a sponsor. I didn't really like him before i met him (we spoke a bit about Coville before a SNSM). He was pretty nice (he doesn't seem to), huge charisma.

 

Bruno Peyron: I really don't get this guy...

 

Loick: Is he in the Artemis team still?



#91 BalticBandit

BalticBandit

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,728 posts

Posted 14 December 2013 - 10:12 AM

 

 

 

Now, assuming the rumors about preliminary regattas happening in the nations of the challengers, where are we most likely to see these guys stage a regatta.  If I remember correctly, Cammas has staged his efforts in both the Med and Brittany.  So, would they do a regatta in Marseille, or Lorient/Brest?  And of course we always have to do this, if they were to win the Cup, where would they then hold AC36? 
 
If any team were to Steel the Cup away from America, I think it would be most compelling and the most exciting sailing in AC36 if it were to go to France.

Cammas could have a preference for the South, Desjoyeaux and Kersauson are from Brest.
However Cammas boats are mainly located in Lorient, Desjoyeaux between Brest and Lorient at Port Laforêt.
My favorite would obviously be Brest, natural amphitheater, most of the time windy (but not as regular as the SF wind factory).

 

 
Marseilles has a pretty good wind machine, pretty good viewing arena, and HUGE spectator potential, wouldn't you think?  Wasn't the finish/start of The Race a huge success in Marseilles?

 

Way more French money in Britanny (particularly OLD money - which is sigificant in France) than in the Med.  Plus Paris is closer as is England.  So from a marketing perspective, Britttany would be where I would guess.  But first they have to win

 

Sorry to disagree but there is WAY MORE money (particularly old one) in Marseilles alone than in the whole of Brittany, there are a few current business (read tied money) billionaires west but nothing to compare in total with the past century establishment in Marseille.
It is doubtful though that the various "components" of the old Marseille gentry want to show-off anymore than the discreet Bretons, particularly in the current state of things in France - as the sentence goes "If you want to live happy, live hidden".

The last bit is clearly the case.  Marseilles has the added benefit that it would attract viewers from Italy and Spain and the "Moyen Orient" more than Britttany which would attract more Parisians and Brits.... 

 

If they do it in Brittany I think they'd move a bit south of Cap Finistere - somewhere closer to the Gulf de Morbihan and Belle Ile https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Belle+%C3%8Ele,+Morbihan,+France&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=47.393701,-2.828979&spn=0.850632,2.113495&sll=47.40625,-2.92305&sspn=0.425216,1.056747&oq=belle,+France&hnear=Belle+%C3%8Ele&t=m&z=10  

 

Better tourism infrastructure

Better access (TGVs direct from Paris)

 

And fewer drug murders than Marseilles  :-)

 

 

 

but no matter what, consider the next ACS "World Series"   with Jimmy the Spit,  Sir BenLo (or whatever his latest girlfriend's initials are) , Nathan, Bora, and Mssr. Cammas all on the same start line?



#92 edouard

edouard

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 392 posts
  • Interests:Leisure sailing for 35 years with anything windpowered from Hobies to Classic Keelboats

Posted 14 December 2013 - 10:47 AM

This is great news. Kersauzon however should stick to selling books recounting war stories , his last attempts to multihull records (and boats) were dated and were failures. 

 

The Peyron brothers , especially Loïc would be a much better addition to raise money. But if Cammas winning streak goes on, that would be quite a feat.

 

Go Team France!

 

De Kersauson is in it as "ambassador", i.e. he won't have any role in running the team but his support is very valuable as he is a mythical figure in France. (Oh BTW, his last attempt at multihull records was a successful attempt at the Jules Vernes trophy in 2004 at the helm of Geronimo, the first maxi-trimaran ever built. Not bad for a failure.)

 

No way would a Loick Peyron Franck Cammas partnership work. Dans le poulailler il y aurait un coq de trop.



#93 Sebyseb

Sebyseb

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 150 posts
  • Location:Abu Dhabi/Cherbourg
  • Interests:Rhum, roots reggae, chicks and not breaking boats.

Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:57 PM

2004, exactly my point, and his mythical figure divides more than it bring people together.

I'm just saying there are other French multi sailors who would be better suited, but don't really care as long as they get there.



#94 edouard

edouard

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 392 posts
  • Interests:Leisure sailing for 35 years with anything windpowered from Hobies to Classic Keelboats

Posted 14 December 2013 - 09:04 PM

2004, exactly my point, and his mythical figure divides more than it bring people together.

I'm just saying there are other French multi sailors who would be better suited, but don't really care as long as they get there.

 

Absolutely NOT your point since you were talking of failures which happens not to be true and the fact that he hasn't raced since 2004 is besides the point since he won't be involved either in the design of the boat nor in the training of the crew.



#95 Keith

Keith

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,546 posts
  • Location:Vancouver B.C.

Posted 14 December 2013 - 09:36 PM

De Kersauson is a excellent choice to have involved in any french team.

 

As would be many other, well respected, french ocean sailors..



#96 Tornado-Cat

Tornado-Cat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,704 posts

Posted 14 December 2013 - 10:30 PM

Franck was the first to call...

 

http://www.sport365....7-1085816.shtml



#97 SIR CLEAN

SIR CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 931 posts
  • Location:Paros
  • Interests:Integrity.

Posted 15 December 2013 - 03:22 AM

Great to have a french team but remember the history of great French teams and why they fail at most things except solo races and design wars.

They, as a group of passionate people, do not get along together in a team. Put a group of excellent french sailors together and 2 + 2 = -4 ( differences of opinion!)

The french have excellent and brave sailors who, when offshore in a multi, are the best.

Put a bunch of them in a race boat where tactics, team work, and short courses are involved and they will implode most times.

There is no doubt there boat will be fast. But will the best of French sailors work together...?....

Flair, bravery, and passion will not win you the AC by itself.

#98 Life Buoy 15

Life Buoy 15

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,105 posts
  • Location:The great southern land

Posted 15 December 2013 - 05:51 AM


Flair, bravery, and passion will not win you the AC by itself.


But you have a joint French/ Greek/NZ passport don't you two dicks?

#99 Bill R

Bill R

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 183 posts
  • Location:NZ
  • Interests:sailing

Posted 15 December 2013 - 06:00 AM

The French can work as a team, they beat the all blacks in the rugby world cup, time before last.



#100 edouard

edouard

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 392 posts
  • Interests:Leisure sailing for 35 years with anything windpowered from Hobies to Classic Keelboats

Posted 15 December 2013 - 10:48 AM

Great to have a french team but remember the history of great French teams and why they fail at most things except solo races and design wars.

They, as a group of passionate people, do not get along together in a team. Put a group of excellent french sailors together and 2 + 2 = -4 ( differences of opinion!)

The french have excellent and brave sailors who, when offshore in a multi, are the best.

Put a bunch of them in a race boat where tactics, team work, and short courses are involved and they will implode most times.

There is no doubt there boat will be fast. But will the best of French sailors work together...?....

Flair, bravery, and passion will not win you the AC by itself.

 

The AC is very much a design war and both ETNZ and Oracle had Frenchmen in key design roles.

 

Franck Cammas and Michel Desjoyeaux are not known to implode easily and they are both known to be extremely focused and competitive. Besides, Franck is an exception in France since he did most of his career with crews and won't hesitate to look outside of France for the crew as he did for the VOR.

 

Their main handicap is that they don't have a billionaire (and even less the country) to throw money at them.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users