Jump to content


North Sails Sale


  • Please log in to reply
152 replies to this topic

#1 csmovi

csmovi

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 327 posts

Posted 27 February 2014 - 06:35 PM

This will usher in a new era.  I know that this site does not have overwhelming love for Big Blue but we should say thanks to Terry Kohler and his leadership.  Without Terry there would have been little vision to fund the 3DL.  Love it or leave it 3DL and its spawn have changed this industry.  Thanks to Terry and his team for putting some financial heft into a product, company, and market where most rational businessmen say makes little financial sense.  Congratulations on the sale and best wishes for this new era.



#2 Presuming Ed

Presuming Ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,033 posts
  • Location:London, UK

Posted 27 February 2014 - 07:02 PM

So who's the buyer? "he owns an IMS-era 50 footer, is from the UK, and it ain’t Sir Keith Mills"

Peter Harrison? Does he still own Chernikeef? Or somebody else? Are there any Med based owners who match that description?

#3 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 27 February 2014 - 07:47 PM

So weird that we can't get any better info but NS has been tighter than a choir girl about this whole thing, even our usually awesome insiders!



#4 Soley

Soley

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,839 posts
  • Location:This side of the Atlantic
  • Interests:Take a guess. It ain't too hard.....

Posted 27 February 2014 - 07:49 PM

Sooo $500M+ Gross?

 

I think net would be a shocker.



#5 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 27 February 2014 - 07:59 PM

probably.  got some fairly good inside info that the potential Chinese purchaser who was negotiating for some time put an actual cash value on NS at $500M if and only if it could be split off from NTG.

 

could all be bullshit but when i hear the same bullshit from a few different guys i usually remember the number



#6 Monkey

Monkey

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,366 posts

Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:36 PM


This will usher in a new era.  I know that this site does not have overwhelming love for Big Blue but we should say thanks to Terry Kohler and his leadership.  Without Terry there would have been little vision to fund the 3DL.  Love it or leave it 3DL and its spawn have changed this industry.  Thanks to Terry and his team for putting some financial heft into a product, company, and market where most rational businessmen say makes little financial sense.  Congratulations on the sale and best wishes for this new era.


Well said! It's also worth noting that Terry gave a HUGE amount of the money North brought him over the years straight back to the sailing community. A good guy all around!

#7 Soley

Soley

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,839 posts
  • Location:This side of the Atlantic
  • Interests:Take a guess. It ain't too hard.....

Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:42 PM

A cash value of $500M for NS on its own is pretty reasonable. Lots of property, equipment, goodwill, patents. All worth the price. It's just a spendy business to be in, lot's of R and D plus 90% of customers are whiny cheap fucks always looking for a deal. Tough to generate profit.



#8 Drop Bear.

Drop Bear.

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 546 posts
  • Location:UK
  • Interests:none.

Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:06 PM

So who's the buyer? "he owns an IMS-era 50 footer, is from the UK, and it ain’t Sir Keith Mills"

Peter Harrison? Does he still own Chernikeef? Or somebody else? Are there any Med based owners who match that description?

 

Chernikeeff is for sale for £100k (tax paid) - assume he still does.
 



#9 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:14 PM

again that is what I am told a potential buyer valued the NS business at if it could be split off.  If a formal offer was made under those conditions, it was clearly rejected.



#10 CrushDigital

CrushDigital

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,818 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:24 PM

A cash value of $500M for NS on its own is pretty reasonable. Lots of property, equipment, goodwill, patents. All worth the price. It's just a spendy business to be in, lot's of R and D plus 90% of customers are whiny cheap fucks always looking for a deal. Tough to generate profit.

 

And there's the rub.  You'd wanna know EBITDA for each of the components.  Given the variety of industries NTG is in the multiple on a transaction would be blended and driven more or less off the weighted average.  

 

Certain groups come across as more industrial meaning more 4-6x whereas you might make the claim that others represent tech or high-end consumer goods which both are going at somewhere around 11-13x.

 

I just pulled a report of all the exit multiples that are readily available in the Aerospace, Automotive components, Luxury goods, Manufacture and supply of other consumer products, and Ship Building and parts sectors, and with nothing more than a very rough revenue number of 500m, it's almost impossible to say just what someone might pay.  Not to mention the fact that this particular industry is rife with deals based on very little economic reality.



#11 Roller Skates

Roller Skates

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 780 posts
  • Location:North

Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:25 PM

Slightly off topic, but where does that put Sail Sheboygan?

Really enjoyed their events and support of Match racing (especially college) in the Midwest. That was sort of a Kohler project wasn't it? Can't imagine he can support it as easily without the North/Edgewater connection...

#12 Monkey

Monkey

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,366 posts

Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:46 PM

Slightly off topic, but where does that put Sail Sheboygan?

Really enjoyed their events and support of Match racing (especially college) in the Midwest. That was sort of a Kohler project wasn't it? Can't imagine he can support it as easily without the North/Edgewater connection...

Sail Sheboygan will be around for a long time to come. He set up a group named SEAS to manage and fund the various sailing projects. You'll start seeing that name pop up more often at our random events in Sheboygan.

#13 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 27 February 2014 - 10:30 PM

SEAS was well repped at the US Sailing thing in San Diego, and I had a good chance to speak to some smart, young, and forward thinking folks representing the org.  Good stuff going on there.



#14 solar

solar

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 496 posts
  • Location:Maine

Posted 27 February 2014 - 10:51 PM

How do you make a small fortune?  Invest a large fortune in a sailmaking venture.



#15 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 27 February 2014 - 10:53 PM

Finally got the last piece of the puzzle, and based on what I know about the guy, there are going to be plenty of changes.  Front page in 20.



#16 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:37 PM

Bam!

 

 

Peter-Dubens.jpg...And that's the problem, we still haven't been able to find out who the new owner of North Sails is. other than that he owns an IMS-era 50 footer, is from the UK, and it ain't Sir Keith Mills. As we hear it, the deal to purchase North Sails was signed today, with a press release supposedly going out soon.

 

MAJOR UPDATE:  We've learned that Oakley Capital Investments, the equity fund founded by British entrepreneur and yachtsman Peter Dubens, has purchased North Technology Group for around $500 million.  Dubens is a quietly super-rich guy who made his fortune in an incredibly wide variety of businesses, from the t-shirts that changed color with temperature  to telecommunications to online betting, and many more; and here's the rub:  Like former North Sails owner Terry Kohler, Dubens 'big love' is sailing.

 

Unlike Kohler though, Dubens earned every penny himself; his family lost its money when he was a teenager, and he worked his way to the top of the UK business world with hard work, shrewd investing, and an ability to sniff out distressed companies capable of big turnarounds.  The Standard has an excellent profile on Dubens here; the 44-year old is an impressive man by any measure.

He recently led another of his funds - Pembroke Venture Capital Trust - to another yachting-related purchase when it acquired the luxury yacht media property Boat International just last month; that move combined with the sort of profit margins available in the global superyacht market hints at one of the new North's likely early strategies to profitability; the growth of their luxury, super, and megayacht sailmaking market share.

Thanks to the handful of Anarchists that dug deep for the information, and we congratulate Mr. Dubens and Kohler and all the parties involved; to have a young, aggressive fund controlled by a passionate sailor whose known for putting progress and growth ahead of politics and propaganda at the helm of one of the most powerful brands in the sport is a very good thing.

Share or learn more information in the thread.  Where the crap about the IMS boat came from, we don't know, but the interwebs do tell us that Dubens has a beautiful 43' motor fishing yacht being built to serve as tender for a much bigger sailing yacht, and that he's a member of the Blue Marine Yacht Club, a paper organization that supports the work the BLUE organization does to help to protect against the loss of sensitive marine ecosystems.  We don't know him yet, but we like him already.



#17 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:43 PM

Here's the link

http://sailinganarch...old-to-the-man/

#18 dacapo

dacapo

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,583 posts
  • Location:NY
  • Interests:walks on the beach,a good book,a good cry

Posted 27 February 2014 - 11:54 PM

The irony...a guy from UK buys North ;-)

#19 CrushDigital

CrushDigital

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,818 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:17 AM

Given that the fund only has $1.2B under management I'd be very interested to find out just how highly levareged North is going to end up.

#20 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:22 AM

 this site does not have overwhelming love for Big Blue 

 

Truth be known we had some unenjoyable negotiations with North years ago when upper management made it clear that they really didn't approve of what we were about despite dozens of sailmakers, staff at places like Southern, and clients telling them an alliance with us would have been great.  We continue to have great relationships and true friends amongst so many NS reps and loft owners and even top management; i think North just moves really, really slowly but that there is very little ill will left.

 

I hope a new owner will accelerate that process and given his age and his tech-savviness, if it goes to the very top I imagine Dubens would favor an end to whatever feud SA and NS have.



#21 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:23 AM

Given that the fund only has $1.2B under management I'd be very interested to find out just how highly levareged North is going to end up.

 

I think there are quite a few things that can be sold off to cut that purchase price down significantly, and I emphasize that we have not confirmed a purchase price, just a rumored number.



#22 CrushDigital

CrushDigital

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,818 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:33 AM

Given that the fund only has $1.2B under management I'd be very interested to find out just how highly levareged North is going to end up.

 
I think there are quite a few things that can be sold off to cut that purchase price down significantly, and I emphasize that we have not confirmed a purchase price, just a rumored number.

Nonetheless, unless the seller agrees to retain some opcos, Oakley will still have to finance the purchase of everything (at whatever the price ends up being) and then set up the unwanted companies either as standalone entities to spin or find buyers. One way or the other it's a long process to get rid of the crap you don't want, provided you can find buyers.

#23 6924

6924

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 734 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:10 AM

Think if scooter kisses ass long and hard enough - he'll score big adverts ?

#24 Shibby

Shibby

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,287 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:12 AM

500$ seems an unfriendly number...



#25 Somebody Else

Somebody Else

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,972 posts
  • Location:Southern California
  • Interests:Shootings, just like HotRod!

Posted 28 February 2014 - 01:14 AM

Peter Harrison? Does he still own Chernikeef? Or somebody else? Are there any Med based owners who match that description?

 

I'm still in southern California and I don't own a 50-foot anything.



#26 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:21 AM

 

Given that the fund only has $1.2B under management I'd be very interested to find out just how highly levareged North is going to end up.

 
I think there are quite a few things that can be sold off to cut that purchase price down significantly, and I emphasize that we have not confirmed a purchase price, just a rumored number.

Nonetheless, unless the seller agrees to retain some opcos, Oakley will still have to finance the purchase of everything (at whatever the price ends up being) and then set up the unwanted companies either as standalone entities to spin or find buyers. One way or the other it's a long process to get rid of the crap you don't want, provided you can find buyers.

 

Obviously we don't know the details, and my emails and texts to all the important folks have gone unanswered so they are not likely to come quickly.  People are getting nervous, that's for sure.

 

This is a big deal, but by a guy with serious credibility and getting them done, and seemingly with a passion for the sport.  A nice combo.



#27 CrushDigital

CrushDigital

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,818 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:31 AM

Yeah, it could be a lot worse. Will be interesting both to see what they do with North and down the road how they exit.

#28 USA389

USA389

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 192 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:39 AM

 

 

Given that the fund only has $1.2B under management I'd be very interested to find out just how highly levareged North is going to end up.

 
I think there are quite a few things that can be sold off to cut that purchase price down significantly, and I emphasize that we have not confirmed a purchase price, just a rumored number.

Nonetheless, unless the seller agrees to retain some opcos, Oakley will still have to finance the purchase of everything (at whatever the price ends up being) and then set up the unwanted companies either as standalone entities to spin or find buyers. One way or the other it's a long process to get rid of the crap you don't want, provided you can find buyers.

 

Obviously we don't know the details, and my emails and texts to all the important folks have gone unanswered so they are not likely to come quickly.  People are getting nervous, that's for sure.

 

This is a big deal, but by a guy with serious credibility and getting them done, and seemingly with a passion for the sport.  A nice combo.

 

Who's nervous??



#29 CrushDigital

CrushDigital

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,818 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:47 AM

Whoever's agreed to underwrite a loan for a sailing deal maybe?

#30 6924

6924

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 734 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:52 AM

In the context of the cottage industry that is sailing, this is a big transaction. In the context of 'industry' and buy out shops, this is a small deal.

For example - any one of the Home Depots in Metro NYC generates more revenue than North Sails.

#31 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 28 February 2014 - 02:55 AM

 

 

 

Given that the fund only has $1.2B under management I'd be very interested to find out just how highly levareged North is going to end up.

 
I think there are quite a few things that can be sold off to cut that purchase price down significantly, and I emphasize that we have not confirmed a purchase price, just a rumored number.

Nonetheless, unless the seller agrees to retain some opcos, Oakley will still have to finance the purchase of everything (at whatever the price ends up being) and then set up the unwanted companies either as standalone entities to spin or find buyers. One way or the other it's a long process to get rid of the crap you don't want, provided you can find buyers.

 

Obviously we don't know the details, and my emails and texts to all the important folks have gone unanswered so they are not likely to come quickly.  People are getting nervous, that's for sure.

 

This is a big deal, but by a guy with serious credibility and getting them done, and seemingly with a passion for the sport.  A nice combo.

 

Who's nervous??

 

 

some of the higher-level ops people, and some of the folks running the NTG subsidiaries, who are dealing with some uncertainties.



#32 Swimsailor

Swimsailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 165 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:33 AM

Or maybe not everyone worships the ground SA walks on.  

 

I loved my years working at North.  I grew up significantly and learned a great deal about the industry and myself.  I checked a lot of "to do's" off my list all with because of the people I met and experience I gained because of my humble employment sewing sails.

 this site does not have overwhelming love for Big Blue 

 

Truth be known we had some unenjoyable negotiations with North years ago when upper management made it clear that they really didn't approve of what we were about despite dozens of sailmakers, staff at places like Southern, and clients telling them an alliance with us would have been great.  We continue to have great relationships and true friends amongst so many NS reps and loft owners and even top management; i think North just moves really, really slowly but that there is very little ill will left.

 

I hope a new owner will accelerate that process and given his age and his tech-savviness, if it goes to the very top I imagine Dubens would favor an end to whatever feud SA and NS have.



#33 6924

6924

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 734 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:41 AM

Clean,

Caveat - this is a bit speculative, Since I do not have any private Knowledge of this closely Held Enterprise, but the General pattern will be true even if details are not perfect:

North Sails had 1 owner for the last 30 years, it's managers may believe they worked in a hard charging environment, they have no idea what is a hard charging environment.

The new owners will need to pay back their investors ( debt & equity ). The nature of these transactions are a high headline enterprise value ( ie price ) and healthy leverage.

This needs to be paid and paid on time, plus rather lavish 'management fees' paid to the buy out guys will also need to be paid.

Your buddies at North will be told nothing is changing and in fact, we have so much confidence in you we will offer you some shares.

All semi-lies designed to hook you.

If you make your numbers all is good, if you miss out you go and fast.

In these enterprises, management becomes a pathoogical game of politics, cooking numbers, fudging forecasts, and backstabbing. Those that excell at court intrigue, do quite well.

#34 CrushDigital

CrushDigital

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,818 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 28 February 2014 - 03:52 AM

The management fees likely won't be too onerous, 300-500k per year. Debt service at this level will be new but is simply a fact of life in PE buyouts.

As to the specific style of management and corporate culture the PE guys will foster, it's really entirely dependent on what shop, and in a lot of cases which specific guys on the deal team will end up with day to day responsibility.

It is a certainty that there will be significant new reporting requirements and a much higher degree of scrutiny on those results.

#35 6924

6924

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 734 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 04:27 AM

Crush,

You forgot a zero on those fees.

Different cultures of buy-out shop ? Inside the buy out world it may appear different shops have vastly different cultures. To the ROW, every buy out shop's culture is identical.

Crush - I closed my first LBO on March 23, 1984 - a year before you were spawned

#36 CrushDigital

CrushDigital

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,818 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 28 February 2014 - 04:36 AM

You might be right, I could be a bit too inside baseball. As for the fees, I'm just saying what I've been seeing as of late, hell Warburg doesn't charge them at all.

#37 6924

6924

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 734 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 04:43 AM

Crush,

Could be wrong myself - deals might be very thin these days.

#38 sunseeker

sunseeker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,516 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 05:06 AM

North being driven into the ground in the next couple of years could be very healthy for the rest of the sail making industry. Looks like focus will be put on mega yachts so maybe they just get out of the small class business completely. No one would have bought this just for sailmaking. Probably TPT is a big reason for the purchase.

#39 CrushDigital

CrushDigital

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,818 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 28 February 2014 - 05:13 AM

I think it's really odd that people equate PE and LBOs with driving companies into the ground. There's a reason the industry has existed for this long and is still so desirable for institutional investors, but all people can think of is Bluestar Airlines.

You don't make much money for your LPs when a portfolio company goes bust.

#40 sunseeker

sunseeker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,516 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 05:31 AM

I think it's really odd that people equate PE and LBOs with driving companies into the ground. There's a reason the industry has existed for this long and is still so desirable for institutional investors, but all people can think of is Bluestar Airlines.

You don't make much money for your LPs when a portfolio company goes bust.


There's a reason it took this long to sell North. How long was it on the market, 2years, or more? Company may not go bust, but it won't surprise me at all to see portions and processes changed significantly. You'd be hard pressed to call sailmaking a growth industry. TPT, that has potential.

#41 Monkey

Monkey

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,366 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 06:14 AM


I think it's really odd that people equate PE and LBOs with driving companies into the ground. There's a reason the industry has existed for this long and is still so desirable for institutional investors, but all people can think of is Bluestar Airlines.

You don't make much money for your LPs when a portfolio company goes bust.

There's a reason it took this long to sell North. How long was it on the market, 2years, or more? Company may not go bust, but it won't surprise me at all to see portions and processes changed significantly. You'd be hard pressed to call sailmaking a growth industry. TPT, that has potential.
Don't forget to factor in that it wasn't just for sale to the highest bidder. That plays a big role in slowing down a sale.

#42 Royal Flush

Royal Flush

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 28 February 2014 - 11:48 AM

The link in that frontpage article to this thread is not working.



#43 dcbsheb

dcbsheb

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Location:Sheboygan, WI

Posted 28 February 2014 - 12:06 PM

Slightly off topic, but where does that put Sail Sheboygan?

Really enjoyed their events and support of Match racing (especially college) in the Midwest. That was sort of a Kohler project wasn't it? Can't imagine he can support it as easily without the North/Edgewater connection...

As Monkey said, Sail Sheboygan isn't going anywhere. The organization went through a little restructuring after the Olympic campaign was over, but it is still charged with hosting high quality regional, national, and international events while SEAS, who is now run by the former executive director of Sail Sheboygan and Terry's daughter, is now overseeing all of the assets, working with the local Youth Sailing Club, and bringing educational events and seminars to the area. All three organizations have benefited tremendously from the generosity of one donor in particular, but none of them are in any jeopardy of going anywhere with the pending sale of North Sails. He has had a plan for many years to start stepping away from the industry but not before ensuring that his legacy and vision will live on for years to come.

This is just my speculation, but one of the reasons for selling now is so that he can have control over where his North Sails money winds up and not have his estate sell the company and divvy it up among its benefactors. He has made no secret of his desire to die broke. His family is not going hungry any time soon, so he wants to ensure that all of his philanthropic interests will remain healthy for years to come.

The Edgewaters, and other models in the floating armada, are all still here and in great shape. They are maintained by two of the most meticulous people you could imagine, so I don't see anything happening with them anytime soon. While Sail Sheboygan and the Youth Sailing Club were given decent discounts on sails, both organizations paid for their sails and will continue to update their inventories as necessary. Sail Sheboygan has quite an extensive sail inventory, and if you've ever sailed here and elsewhere on borrowed boats, you'd agree that it's second to none. Nothing will change here.

Now, the never-ending R&D sail inventory on the GL 70 Evolution is a different story.

#44 csmovi

csmovi

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 327 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 04:34 PM

How can that possibly be healthy for the industry?  Just what you don't want is a bunch of ma and pa shops producing overpriced under quality product.  With no R&D in the industry you have to rely on the big sailmakers and their partners (large boat owners) to underwrite R&D.  I worked for a ma and pa sailmaker back in the day and yes we were customer oriented and friendly and not arrogant but ultimately we couldn't keep up with the development costs because the client base simply wasn't large enough.  Look at it this way without the DeVos family dumping money into Quantum (not unlike Kohler's commitment to North) they would have ceased to be major players years ago.  Just ask Peter Conrad how Sobstad is doing.  Love em or leave them having North in the game keeps the little guys alive.  Ask Ullman.

North being driven into the ground in the next couple of years could be very healthy for the rest of the sail making industry. Looks like focus will be put on mega yachts so maybe they just get out of the small class business completely. No one would have bought this just for sailmaking. Probably TPT is a big reason for the purchase.



#45 walterbshaffer

walterbshaffer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,014 posts
  • Location:San Diego, California USA
  • Interests:Formerly Member No. 9720

Posted 28 February 2014 - 04:41 PM

the real question is how will this affect their product or pricing etc if at all?



#46 6924

6924

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 734 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 05:06 PM

They are a restructuring - turnaround shop.  'nuf said



#47 radicalmove

radicalmove

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 366 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 06:25 PM

My understanding from an insider is that this is really very old news.  The sale took place in the Fall of '13, and didn't understand

why it is just being announced now. 

 

No changes have taken place, and the top folks have not felt threatened.  In fact, some have taken their top job since the transaction

was at least begun. 

 

Also, Kohler's finances are pretty complex.  The interesting thing is going to be sorting out what exactly was sold, and to a lesser extent

from which entities they came from. Sure there is the North Technology Group.  But there is Vollrath, Wind Way Capital and other

companies Kohler owns or controls that  may have pieces of the pie, control patents or intellectual property, or LLCs for instance that hold

title to land and or buildings. 

 

In short, there is a lot still unknown, and some of what we now know, others knew back in the fall but weren't talking about. 



#48 SA Lurker

SA Lurker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 499 posts

Posted 28 February 2014 - 06:31 PM

My understanding from an insider is that this is really very old news.  The sale took place in the Fall of '13, and didn't understand

why it is just being announced now. 

 

It may be indicative of where SA is in the rumor mill loop.



#49 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 28 February 2014 - 07:01 PM

the sale of boats international was signed on the 7th of jan and the press release went to every major pub on the 11th of jan which should show you how Dubens does business. And we have first hand report that the Chinese made their offer and were rejected around Christmas, before Oakley were even involved. But sure, your insider info makes a lot of sense, radicalmove. Tons.

#50 MidPack

MidPack

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,404 posts
  • Location:undecided

Posted 28 February 2014 - 09:42 PM

Looks like the same info (5 hours after SA) http://www.superyach...rth-sails-.html



#51 Jambalaya

Jambalaya

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,268 posts
  • Location:UK, South East

Posted 01 March 2014 - 12:08 AM

North is a private company so no financial performance info available, all guess work and speculation from us. I cannot see how you'd add much debt to North as I don't think it makes any money. North is the dominant single player in the market, so there ins't any realistic chance of growing market share and the market itself isn't in good shape overall. Perhaps I'm missing something or indeed quite a lot of things but I don't see how this purchase makes sense except at a very low price.



#52 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 01 March 2014 - 01:27 AM

NTG as a whole is not very profitable, say good sources, mostly because of the cost of debt servicing for some big pieces of equipment, real estate, and buildings.    Elements of NTG are quite profitable though.  



#53 GREENHORN

GREENHORN

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts
  • Location:US
  • Interests:sailing

Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:08 AM

NTG as a whole is not very profitable, say good sources, mostly because of the cost of debt servicing for some big pieces of equipment, real estate, and buildings.    Elements of NTG are quite profitable though.  


This is one of the least intelligent things I have read on this website. Borderline comical. Debt for big pieces of equipment, real estate and buildings? What does that mean? Last time I checked, real estate and buildings are the same thing! Plus, how can something as a "whole not be very profitable" but sell for $400-$450 million??!?! This entire forum and cover story are irresponsible and sensational "web reporting" at its best.....

#54 Pete M

Pete M

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,869 posts
  • Location:So Cal

Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:33 AM

greenhorn

 

6 posts and no tits?



#55 sunseeker

sunseeker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,516 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 02:42 AM

Ken Read's ego has to be worth at least $100 million as part of this deal.

#56 TBone

TBone

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 380 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 03:19 AM

NTG as a whole is not very profitable...[e]lements of NTG are quite profitable though.  


"Good sources"? For what?

#57 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 01 March 2014 - 04:12 AM

 This entire forum and cover story are irresponsible and sensational "web reporting" at its best.....

 

that is some of the whiniest shit i have ever read.  you have facts to disprove, go for it.  otherwise, fuck off like the other newbs.

 

btw, buildings come and go.  real estate can be property + buildings or just property.  clearly not the business you are in.



#58 sailingbeme

sailingbeme

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 14 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 04:55 AM

The low cost provider always wins!



#59 Editor

Editor

    Anarchist

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,661 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:08 AM

Think if scooter kisses ass long and hard enough - he'll score big adverts ?

 

yeah douche, that's exactly what i was going to do. seen craig lackey anywhere? perhaps he can show how to fellate north to completion...



#60 6924

6924

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 734 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:01 AM

Hugs and kisses to you 2

#61 CrushDigital

CrushDigital

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,818 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:13 AM

Hugs and kisses to you 2


This, for so many reasons, is my favorite thread in a long time.

#62 csmovi

csmovi

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 327 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 07:51 AM

The low cost provider always wins!

Only if your product is a commodity. 



#63 barleymalt

barleymalt

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,251 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:10 PM


Now, the never-ending R&D sail inventory on the GL 70 Evolution is a different story.

 

When Cyno moved east, the first couple sails out going through the forty odd bags of sails that came with her was classic.  We'd throw something up, look at each other, and mutter "What the hell is that"? :-). 



#64 Estar

Estar

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,444 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:27 PM

 

 

Who's nervous??

 

 

some of the higher-level ops people, and some of the folks running the NTG subsidiaries, who are dealing with some uncertainties.

mmmmm . .  .actually . . . . most of the sr managers have 'shadow shares' and will get a (significant) payout if the deal goes thru.  They are nervous it will not. But you are correct that some of the guys running the 'fluffy' subsidiaries will definitely lose their jobs.

 

Some of them have been waiting for almost a decade for the payout. It was last 'almost' sold in 2008 - the deal was about 12 hours from closure, but the timing was extraordinarily unfortunate -  it was underwritten by Lehman, and fell thru when they went bust.

 

It must be a bit of a complicated deal/due diligence, because the subsidiary and IP ownership is complex - TPT is for instance 51%/49% equity (NTG/principles), but NTG owns its debt and could call it and the 49% owners could probably not pay without giving up their shares. But they have some leverage because they also own (some of the primary) 3di intellectual property.

 

And, as I am sure most of you know, North Sails is essentially only North American - European and NZ and Australian sales are completely separate companies, not owned or controlled by NTG, but which pay licence fees to North Sales.

 

Buy-out management style will certainly be a shock to the system.  The COO has 'not believed in budgets', and targets, for 20 years.



#65 BobJ

BobJ

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 962 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 05:48 PM

In my experience, their accounting system will keep anyone from paying the right amount for their sail, let alone their sale.

 

Since their e-mail system will keep anyone from knowing what's going on, it won't matter.



#66 Monkey

Monkey

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,366 posts

Posted 01 March 2014 - 06:13 PM


Now, the never-ending R&D sail inventory on the GL 70 Evolution is a different story.

 
When Cyno moved east, the first couple sails out going through the forty odd bags of sails that came with her was classic.  We'd throw something up, look at each other, and mutter "What the hell is that"? :-). 
You should see the hanger! I'm pretty sure they did it just to fuck with me, but I got sent out there one day to inventory everything. Aside from having to unpack and repack all those damned things, there were even sails from random boats he never even owned! It was insane what they held onto. They never threw out anything. On the plus side, that can be useful. As an example, all of Cyno's original winches sat in a crate for years until Ragtime needed to fix one old worn out Barient. They ended up with a whole SC70 deck package for pennies on the dollar. There's so many fun stories about Terry's impact all over the place.

#67 bruno

bruno

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,972 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:15 AM

Fun stories like helping make womens match racing a permanent olympic fixture?

#68 Monkey

Monkey

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,366 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 12:40 AM


Fun stories like helping make womens match racing a permanent olympic fixture?


It was more effort than anyone else put forth.

#69 GREENHORN

GREENHORN

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts
  • Location:US
  • Interests:sailing

Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:00 AM

Can anyone on this site name the sr management team of ntg or the people that own ntg? So many comments without any facts. The speculation is so rampant. Consistent with the continued "reporting"

#70 Ishmael

Ishmael

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,290 posts
  • Location:Fuctifino

Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:01 AM

Can anyone on this site name the sr management team of ntg or the people that own ntg? So many comments without any facts. The speculation is so rampant. Consistent with the continued "reporting"

 

7 posts no tits.



#71 dcbsheb

dcbsheb

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Location:Sheboygan, WI

Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:04 AM



Fun stories like helping make womens match racing a permanent olympic fixture?

It was more effort than anyone else put forth.

That just goes to show just how screwed up ISAF is. Trust me, it was not from a lack of effort.

#72 Estar

Estar

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,444 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:08 AM

Can anyone on this site name the sr management team of ntg or the people that own ntg? So many comments without any facts. The speculation is so rampant. Consistent with the continued "reporting"

Sure . . .several of us could. I was on that management team - as the original 'start-up CEO' of TPT.



#73 6924

6924

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 734 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:41 AM

Ester,

"Buy-out management style will certainly be a shock to the system. The COO has 'not believed in budgets', and targets, for 20 years."

boy oh boy some people are in for a surprise. This will make a great case study in 5 years. The new owners are going to make a fortune.

#74 Monkey

Monkey

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,366 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:54 AM




Fun stories like helping make womens match racing a permanent olympic fixture?

It was more effort than anyone else put forth.
That just goes to show just how screwed up ISAF is. Trust me, it was not from a lack of effort.
I'm guessing Bruno was a fan of watching Ynglings go nowhere slowly.

#75 sumpin

sumpin

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,928 posts
  • Location:San Miguel
  • Interests:scallop mining and rudder fairing
    stair falling book cover mending

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:19 AM

easy to rid urself of buildings, property, people.. if you have some $ and a passion u can have some fun with it. the big blue boys on the street in cali are plenty nervous with the uncertainty, today 



#76 sunseeker

sunseeker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,516 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:43 AM

easy to rid urself of buildings, property, people.. if you have some $ and a passion u can have some fun with it. the big blue boys on the street in cali are plenty nervous with the uncertainty, today 


North guys should not be nervous they should know they are going to get fucked in the ass dry. Why would anyone buy north right now? Go Q D or U.

#77 sumpin

sumpin

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,928 posts
  • Location:San Miguel
  • Interests:scallop mining and rudder fairing
    stair falling book cover mending

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:48 AM

easy to rid urself of buildings, property, people.. if you have some $ and a passion u can have some fun with it. the big blue boys on the street in cali are plenty nervous with the uncertainty, today 


North guys should not be nervous they should know they are going to get fucked in the ass dry. Why would anyone buy north right now? Go Q D or U.

 

 

and that..but plenty of those guys can go elsewhere, need to change their schtick though



#78 sunseeker

sunseeker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,516 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:03 AM


easy to rid urself of buildings, property, people.. if you have some $ and a passion u can have some fun with it. the big blue boys on the street in cali are plenty nervous with the uncertainty, today 

North guys should not be nervous they should know they are going to get fucked in the ass dry. Why would anyone buy north right now? Go Q D or U.
 
 
and that..but plenty of those guys can go elsewhere, need to change their schtick though

Do you make it a habit to hire assholes from another company? Didn't think so. North is dead. Fuck them.

#79 Monkey

Monkey

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,366 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:24 AM



easy to rid urself of buildings, property, people.. if you have some $ and a passion u can have some fun with it. the big blue boys on the street in cali are plenty nervous with the uncertainty, today 

North guys should not be nervous they should know they are going to get fucked in the ass dry. Why would anyone buy north right now? Go Q D or U.
 
 
and that..but plenty of those guys can go elsewhere, need to change their schtick though
Do you make it a habit to hire assholes from another company? Didn't think so. North is dead. Fuck them.
I'm guessing you got passed over once or twice when you applied for a job. I'm not surprised.

#80 sunseeker

sunseeker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,516 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:33 AM




easy to rid urself of buildings, property, people.. if you have some $ and a passion u can have some fun with it. the big blue boys on the street in cali are plenty nervous with the uncertainty, today 

North guys should not be nervous they should know they are going to get fucked in the ass dry. Why would anyone buy north right now? Go Q D or U.
 
 
and that..but plenty of those guys can go elsewhere, need to change their schtick though
Do you make it a habit to hire assholes from another company? Didn't think so. North is dead. Fuck them.
I'm guessing you got passed over once or twice when you applied for a job. I'm not surprised.

Hardly. I don't work for da man. North is just a bitch to be fucked. Intolerable assholes work for them. Good sails sold by assholes. Kohler found a chump to take his paid pro pricks off his hands. Kohler must be laughing all the way to the bank.

#81 sumpin

sumpin

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,928 posts
  • Location:San Miguel
  • Interests:scallop mining and rudder fairing
    stair falling book cover mending

Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:44 AM

 

 

 



easy to rid urself of buildings, property, people.. if you have some $ and a passion u can have some fun with it. the big blue boys on the street in cali are plenty nervous with the uncertainty, today 

North guys should not be nervous they should know they are going to get fucked in the ass dry. Why would anyone buy north right now? Go Q D or U.
 
 
and that..but plenty of those guys can go elsewhere, need to change their schtick though
Do you make it a habit to hire assholes from another company? Didn't think so. North is dead. Fuck them.
I'm guessing you got passed over once or twice when you applied for a job. I'm not surprised.

 

 

so informed, carry on my man. paying your people to pound your clients, never got that one



#82 ropetrick

ropetrick

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,493 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 11:52 AM

I hear a faint echo of the old Sailing Anarchy.



#83 Shibby

Shibby

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,287 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 01:58 PM

 

 

 

Given that the fund only has $1.2B under management I'd be very interested to find out just how highly levareged North is going to end up.

 
I think there are quite a few things that can be sold off to cut that purchase price down significantly, and I emphasize that we have not confirmed a purchase price, just a rumored number.

Nonetheless, unless the seller agrees to retain some opcos, Oakley will still have to finance the purchase of everything (at whatever the price ends up being) and then set up the unwanted companies either as standalone entities to spin or find buyers. One way or the other it's a long process to get rid of the crap you don't want, provided you can find buyers.

 

Obviously we don't know the details, and my emails and texts to all the important folks have gone unanswered so they are not likely to come quickly.  People are getting nervous, that's for sure.

 

This is a big deal, but by a guy with serious credibility and getting them done, and seemingly with a passion for the sport.  A nice combo.

 

Who's nervous??

Is that why Gary Weisman left last year???

 

good time to clear the decks...



#84 Monkey

Monkey

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,366 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:29 PM

Sumpin', sorry for the confusion, but I'm not associated with the company in any way.  I only worked for them for two summers, and that was 18 years ago.  Even then, I wasn't really associated with the company.  I just took care of a boat.  

 

It was purely my own opinion and I was just responding to the weird rant by SunSeeker more or less wishing doom and unmitigated failure on anyone and everyone associated with North.  



#85 mgs

mgs

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 20 posts
  • Location:maine
  • Interests:Canoeing and hiking and such

Posted 02 March 2014 - 02:48 PM

So Dubens has a motor yacht restored one building over from whatever Mr. Read is working on in Maine and then Oakley capital buys north sails...

Is it just a coincidence or am I looking at things wrong?

#86 GREENHORN

GREENHORN

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts
  • Location:US
  • Interests:sailing

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:02 PM

Completely wrong. The rampant misinfo in here is hysterical.

#87 GREENHORN

GREENHORN

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts
  • Location:US
  • Interests:sailing

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:06 PM

The other completely comical thing is, despite all the "inside sources" and "informants", there has been an NTG company-wide email (north, southern, ew, tpt, etc) out since yesterday and no mention here!! Nice insider info

#88 Fins-up!

Fins-up!

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:41 PM

Hopefully the new owner(s) will give their sales-makers some in-depth product knowledge and customer service training.



#89 Somebody Else

Somebody Else

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,972 posts
  • Location:Southern California
  • Interests:Shootings, just like HotRod!

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:52 PM

the real question is how will this affect their product or pricing etc if at all?

 

the real question is will this improve the time before new 3DLs morph into fishing nets with dandruff?



#90 dcbsheb

dcbsheb

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 330 posts
  • Location:Sheboygan, WI

Posted 02 March 2014 - 03:55 PM

The other completely comical thing is, despite all the "inside sources" and "informants", there has been an NTG company-wide email (north, southern, ew, tpt, etc) out since yesterday and no mention here!! Nice insider info


So why don't you enlighten us oh wise one?

#91 Shibby

Shibby

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,287 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:08 PM

Green you sound nervous...



#92 GREENHORN

GREENHORN

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts
  • Location:US
  • Interests:sailing

Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:13 PM

Shaking. I am just amazed that none of the boasts and "inside insights" can ever get backed up on this site. Why doesn't clean use his inside contacts to get the memo? It only went to 2,000 people....

#93 bruno

bruno

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,972 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 04:30 PM


Fun stories like helping make womens match racing a permanent olympic fixture?

It was more effort than anyone else put forth.
That just goes to show just how screwed up ISAF is. Trust me, it was not from a lack of effort.
I'm guessing Bruno was a fan of watching Ynglings go nowhere slowly.

Good one, proving your own quoted saying in two posts.
1. Going from fleet racing in mini solings to match racing in elliots is an improvement for those willing and able to sponsor their daughters and limit the competition.
2. I am a fan of neither, though both required good sailors, but thought that was a missed opportuna-ty to move the game ahead rather than retard it.

#94 Shibby

Shibby

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,287 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:04 PM


Green you have a Maryland accent... 



#95 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:38 PM

Can anyone on this site name the sr management team of ntg or the people that own ntg? So many comments without any facts. The speculation is so rampant. Consistent with the continued "reporting"

 

 

Whatcha got, newb?



#96 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:40 PM

The other completely comical thing is, despite all the "inside sources" and "informants", there has been an NTG company-wide email (north, southern, ew, tpt, etc) out since yesterday and no mention here!! Nice insider info

 

Link to someone who does have it, or it never happened.   Hell with the smaller sites always champing at the bit to publicize anything we've done wrong, it is a near certainty that it would have made it up somewhere else if you're not full of shit.



#97 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 02 March 2014 - 05:42 PM

Shaking. I am just amazed that none of the boasts and "inside insights" can ever get backed up on this site. Why doesn't clean use his inside contacts to get the memo? It only went to 2,000 people....

 

Been skiing.  Tom Whidden should be on the chairlift today too (his house is just down from my folks), but we don't talk the biz.  



#98 Shibby

Shibby

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,287 posts

Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:14 PM

skiing with the co-owner of North Marine Group, posh Clean...



#99 CrushDigital

CrushDigital

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,818 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:24 PM

skiing with the co-owner of North Marine Group, posh Clean...


And like any good WASP he makes sure not to step on any toes

#100 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,473 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 02 March 2014 - 06:27 PM

skiing with the co-owner of North Marine Group, posh Clean...

 

Nope - just random occurrences; he just happens to live near my parents and shares the lift with my dad from time to time, and I am here for the first time in a decade.  






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users