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#201 jimmy kneewrecker

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:47 AM

One thing the Aero has going is the ability to step down for smaller sailors.

 

it does, and with it comes some concerns about which sail / class will ultimately succeed.  The RS100 10.2 is essentially dead as a travelling class in the UK now.  

 

That said, there is a smaller sail in development for the Zero too, so the same issues could present themselves in both classes.... I would like to think the controls will be in place to maintain the one design ethos of the current sail- it certainly seems to cover the bases from 65 - 100kg in my opinion, accepting certain Laws of Physics in the dull end and survival end of the wind range.   But I guess that stuff will all come out in the wash once the CA is formerly up and running..... 



#202 bill4

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 12:16 AM

What's with the multiple rigs? If it's windy and your smaller, suck it up, hike harder and sail smarter! And make up time downwind. In the lighter stuff, you'll kick ass. No way a fat guy can simply pass you. Don't start another fleet! Is a DZero with a smaller rig a DMinus? How ironic...

#203 ChuckLinn

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:30 AM

Well, the boat designers can elaborate, but - I'll give two answers to the previous post.  The first answer is best explained by Bethwaite High performance sailing, section 16.3, and the figure by the same number.  It essentially refutes the "just hike harder, and make up for it downwind".  Essentially that while you can "hike harder" and add perhaps a few percent righting moment compared with "not hiking harder" (whatever that means), you are going to need to depower the lift of the sail (heeling moment), while you can do little to proportionally reduce the drag (once you have flattened, etc).  Sure, there's an overlap range, but that's why 18s, etc have multiple rigs - simply because it is faster over a range of wind conditions.  Note that in these cases (at least if you believe Bethwaite), , shorting the mast is well worth it (vs a sail that does not go up to the top).

 

Perhaps you really were trying to answer a different question, however.  When 18s compete, there is essentially one class, and it is assumed participants will own all the rigs and pick per their preference.  So, if you may, there would (theoretically) one dpn number assigned for the combination of the 3 rigs. This is not how mere mortals do it, however.  While I may own a laser and a radial rig, the laser class does not consider that one class.  So - in the case of the aeros, and eventually D0s, you are correct that splits the class.

 

And that is a valid concern, especially for a class starting out.  But.. it is a double edge sword.  With the current mix of boats, I think it is pretty clear that if I were a 65 kg woman or youth, one of the two smaller Aero rigs would look like a better fit for me.  But.. if I were a 80 kg guy, I the 8 m2 sail the D0 has looks like it is a nice sweet spot, especially if I didn't live in a windy venue.  Sure, people can sail on both sides, but.. this is a game of sweet spots.  So - as I see it, let's not criticize the competing classes, just realize that each is potentially going to work best in different target audiences. Also remember that not all people buying boats are competitive laser sailors looking for something "just like the laser, but with the stupid things fixed".  This forum (and the Aero forum, for that matter) have LOTS of selection bias going on, but I would posit that especially for the aero, there is a lot of target customer base (less serious racers, women, small guys, youth) that does not hang out on forums for a pasttime.  So I guess this is my plea to forget spending lots of emotion about what the aero is doing, and concentrate on how the D0 fits you and your club on a case-by-case basis.



#204 rodneyGBR53

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 06:59 AM

Thanks Chuck,

 

That all makes sense and I, personally, would be happy to race the D-Zero with the 8.1 M2 sail if I were anything between 70 and 110 Kgs and sail, just for fun with no big demand on upwind speed, if I were even lighter or heavier.  We have had significant demand for a smaller rig from ladies and youths who love the D-Zero but feel that the 8.1 M2 sail may be more than enough  for their weight. Other interest in small rigs has come from guys and girls who would like to race with the standard rig but also have a small rig available for wives, kids or, in one case, a mum to sail with   Obviously, for racing purposes we would need to treat D-Zero rigs of different rig sizes as different classes and the indications over here are that by this time next year there will be enough small rig D-Zeros out there to provide proper fleet racing.

 

We always had the intention to introduce a small rig but had planned launch this at next year's Dinghy Show, the UK's premier boat show for dinghies, over the first weekend in March.  Due to pressing demand and requests for the small rig we have brought this forward.  I guess that we are damned if we do and damned if we don't :wacko:

 

Below is a 62 Kgs young sailor testing the D-Zero at Clevedon last weekend, first question was is there a smaller rig available?

 

 

Attached Files



#205 woodman

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 08:38 AM

One thing the Aero has going is the ability to step down for smaller sailors.

 

it does, and with it comes some concerns about which sail / class will ultimately succeed.  The RS100 10.2 is essentially dead as a travelling class in the UK now.  

 

That said, there is a smaller sail in development for the Zero too, so the same issues could present themselves in both classes.... I would like to think the controls will be in place to maintain the one design ethos of the current sail- it certainly seems to cover the bases from 65 - 100kg in my opinion, accepting certain Laws of Physics in the dull end and survival end of the wind range.   But I guess that stuff will all come out in the wash once the CA is formerly up and running..... 

I doubt the different size rigs will be the main reason for the demise in the 10.2 numbers. The boat, as you know is tricky to sail and the 10.2 very very difficult to gybe in a blow, so the principle of larger and smaller sails isn't necessarily flawed in itself.

Per Rodneys comment, many will be put off be larger rigs as intimidating and yet they can be entirely manageable by lighter people if the rig works well. The D-One has a very big rig, but the main depowers massively and can be gybed in a blow easily even without the kite up. Try that with a 10.2 100 and its nigh on impossible.

 

I thought the Dzero rig worked very well, but can understand why some may want it smaller.

 

That said the 8.1m sail will be the big seller.

 

On the aero, I would assume the 7.4 will be the volume seller, especially on the sea, whereas inland the 8.9 will do better. 

 

The only downside for the sailors is if you feel trapped between sizes - where the only solution is either less pies or more pies!



#206 dogwatch

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:43 AM

The size of the D-Zero sail is what's pushing me towards the Aero. 75kg but aiming to get to 70kg and sail on sea/estuary i.e. average F4. I'm neither a lady nor a youth, thank you very much. I accept the D-Zero may well be the better boat if you are the correct weight for it.



#207 rodneyGBR53

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 10:19 AM

The size of the D-Zero sail is what's pushing me towards the Aero. 75kg but aiming to get to 70kg and sail on sea/estuary i.e. average F4. I'm neither a lady nor a youth, thank you very much. I accept the D-Zero may well be the better boat if you are the correct weight for it.

 

Of course you are right and I apologise.  I have also been talking to many people about the D-Zero who are similar weight, or lighter than and did not mean to offend.  I am planning to join HISC for my D-Zero sailing which, although generally is relatively flat inside the harbour can get a bit lumpy wind against tide and even more so over and outside the bar.  My target weight for next year is around 72 Kgs and I will use the standard rig.

 

Why not test sail a D-Zero?  Let me know where you are based and I will try to organise something rodney@suntouched.co.uk



#208 couchsurfer

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 11:01 AM

The size of the D-Zero sail is what's pushing me towards the Aero. 75kg but aiming to get to 70kg and sail on sea/estuary i.e. average F4. I'm neither a lady nor a youth, thank you very much. I accept the D-Zero may well be the better boat if you are the correct weight for it.

 

...generally people will be surprised how controllable and de-powerable modern rigs are compared to the irrigation tubing option of days gone by  ;)



#209 jeffers

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 12:58 PM

 
Winds in Clevedon up to 22 knots with steep, sort waves which I am told is typical for the venue. 


What ! You mean it doesn't turn into a submarine ? See Aero thread on this alleged zero behaviour ;-)

 

As a D-zero owner (and long time lurker of this forum) I can say that if you forget to move back the bow does dip down and slow the boat. Definitely not a true submarine and sliding back a bit pops the bow out very readily and the boat accelerates away nicely. Definitely less sumarinal tendencies than some other boats of similar speeds that I have sailed in the past.



#210 jeffers

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:07 PM

The size of the D-Zero sail is what's pushing me towards the Aero. 75kg but aiming to get to 70kg and sail on sea/estuary i.e. average F4. I'm neither a lady nor a youth, thank you very much. I accept the D-Zero may well be the better boat if you are the correct weight for it.

 

...generally people will be surprised how controllable and de-powerable modern rigs are compared to the irrigation tubing option of days gone by  ;)

 

Comparing the D-zero rig with the Rooster 8.1 rig I had on my Laser there is no comparison but only a small difference in overall speed if my experiences to date are anything to go by. It was interesting to have my head out the boat and compare how my boat reacts in a gust to how one of my fellow sailors Rooster 8.1 reacted. I know who was having and easier time and who had the bigger smile at the end of the day. He gave my boat a try and was seriously impressed.

 

The D-Zero is everything the Laser would be today were is being designed today (in my opinion). The boat is simple in terms of set up and a joy to sail but I think it will be difficult to master and consistently get the best out of it.

 

At 85kg I am right in the middle of the weight range for the current rig but I can see that a smaller sail might be useful, especially if it sits on the existing spars (similar to the Fire/Blaze/Halo rigs). That was a real pain in the Laser, I had 3 different mast sections for the differing rigs I had and it was a right pain to swap between them unless you had multiple kicker assemblies and cunningham setups.



#211 cad99uk

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:11 PM

Rodney, What size will the smaller sail be?



#212 jeffers

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:15 PM

Rodney, What size will the smaller sail be?

 

I am told 7sq m.



#213 woodman

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:40 PM

The size of the D-Zero sail is what's pushing me towards the Aero. 75kg but aiming to get to 70kg and sail on sea/estuary i.e. average F4. I'm neither a lady nor a youth, thank you very much. I accept the D-Zero may well be the better boat if you are the correct weight for it.

Whilst we are getting aero's so should push you that way, I wouldn't let the size of sail on the zero bother you too much. Many champion supernova sailors are your weight and that had an 8m fully battened sail. As I said above the d-one has I recall an 11.5m sail, but plenty sail them at your weight. The beauty of both the Dzero and the Aero carbon rigs is that they can be flattened a lot and judicious cunningham combined with a square top, means you can lose the high up power easily. You need to try each boat in conditions as close as possible to where you will be sailing it. Whilst they are similar length and similar in rig, the boats have very different characteristics and one may suit your sailing style or your location better.



#214 rodneyGBR53

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 03:06 PM

Rodney, What size will the smaller sail be?

 

Good question <_<  We are currently in test mode but looking like something between 6.7 M2 and 7.0 M2.   Looking like a huge reduction is not necessary but the jury is out for a couple more weeks.



#215 jeffers

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 03:09 PM

Rodney, What size will the smaller sail be?

 

Good question <_<  We are currently in test mode but looking like something between 6.7 M2 and 7.0 M2.   Looking like a huge reduction is not necessary but the jury is out for a couple more weeks.

 

Will it sit on the same spars Rodney or is that still up for discussion too?



#216 rodneyGBR53

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:27 PM

Sorry Paul, shorter bottom section.  The problem with using same height mast is that there are likely to be compromises in order to maintain the feel and balance of the boat.  Everyone has worked very hard, especially Dan, Devoti, North and Compotech to create a boat which sails well and performs to its potential providing the sailor with a satisfying and rewarding experience.  It would be a shame if we ended up with a small rig D-Zero which doesn't give the sailor the same pleasure that can be achieved with the standard rig.  So, to summarise - shorter bottom section, same top section and same boom and different sail, of course ;)



#217 bill4

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:57 PM

The first answer is best explained by Bethwaite High performance sailing, section 16.3, and the figure by the same number.  It essentially refutes the "just hike harder, and make up for it downwind".  Essentially that while you can "hike harder" and add perhaps a few percent righting moment compared with "not hiking harder" (whatever that means), you are going to need to depower the lift of the sail (heeling moment), while you can do little to proportionally reduce the drag (once you have flattened, etc).  Sure, there's an overlap range, but that's why 18s, etc have multiple rigs - simply because it is faster over a range of wind conditions.  Note that in these cases (at least if you believe Bethwaite), , shorting the mast is well worth it (vs a sail that does not go up to the top).

Noted. Next time a smaller fitter guy works out from under me after the start - boat is flatter, resulting in better steering, simply a more athletic approach (all in all "hiking harder") - I'll shout Bethwaite 16.3 at him... And then when he gets further ahead downwind as he is planing sooner, I'll shout at him some more. But I'll just call him a wanker and buy him a beer after the race.

The DZero looks amazing to me - the rig looks perfect for the boat and the fit and finish looks awesome. But it is a single-handed, centre hiking strap, light planing dinghy. To win in a breeze, you are going to need to be fit. You can only power down so much.



#218 ChuckLinn

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 05:15 PM

No disagreement there, bill4!  No magic here - skill + actual righting moment are pretty applicable here.  The D0 does indeed look like a great boat, and once I can get one here in the US, I'll probably buy one, as much for fun sailing than anything else.  (I sail on a lake with a predominant cross-breeze, so no skiffs for me in the puffy conditions - FD was the most advanced thing I sailed, and a great boat that was, once I learned to mind the slam-headers.. most capsizes on that were to windward upwind!). And for me - the 8 meter sail will be perfect, especially since my part of the country tends on the light side, anyways.

-Chuck



#219 bill4

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 05:50 PM

It'll take some time to make it's way to Western Canada, I am sure. But I could easily see myself in of these!



#220 jimmy kneewrecker

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:54 AM

I don't disagree with the fitness aspect- especially once you're talking one design opens and regattas, but I do think there's something to be said for a boat which lets you get your head out of the cockpit and can implement rapid tactical decisions- e.g. eking out every positive shift, whilst those around you are fannying around with this or that gadget, or decide to take the knocks as tacking is just too slow and risky.  

 

I bet a lot of us who have been dicking around with various boats with kites, traps, scaffolding etc have probably forgotten how much tactical knowledge we used to have.  A boat that gives you the space to unlock those skills again would, imho, be an amazing ownership experience for a seasoned, but slightly disgruntled club sailor.  In fairness, I believe the same positive attribute could quite easily be awarded to the latest RS offering as well, and I bet those guys racing them at Bowmoor are having a great time in them.  

 

Smart and efficient sailboats.... they are the future. :-)



#221 couchsurfer

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:30 PM

I don't disagree with the fitness aspect- especially once you're talking one design opens and regattas, but I do think there's something to be said for a boat which lets you get your head out of the cockpit and can implement rapid tactical decisions- e.g. eking out every positive shift, whilst those around you are fannying around with this or that gadget, or decide to take the knocks as tacking is just too slow and risky.  

 

I bet a lot of us who have been dicking around with various boats with kites, traps, scaffolding etc have probably forgotten how much tactical knowledge we used to have.  A boat that gives you the space to unlock those skills again would, imho, be an amazing ownership experience for a seasoned, but slightly disgruntled club sailor.  In fairness, I believe the same positive attribute could quite easily be awarded to the latest RS offering as well, and I bet those guys racing them at Bowmoor are having a great time in them.  

 

Smart and efficient sailboats.... they are the future. :-)

.

..heh,,,,nice try 'kneewrecker'  :lol:

......you can keep your centrestrap hiker,,, and knock yourself out getting your 'head out of the cockpit' as you say!  ...it's good there's a flavor for each taste,,

 

................and the equivalent of prams on hand to accommodate those that need  :P  :lol: 



#222 Monkeyman

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:54 PM

Looking like my Zero will be delivered next week, bringing my local fleet up to 2 soon to be 3.  Lots more locally in the south west as well so be good to have a local event.  Especially at Cleevedon!  What a great location.  If you want to sail in horrible unpredictable chop and walls of water thats the place, great sailing...If ever there was a place to prove a boat sails in chop thats the place!



#223 sosoomii

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 06:02 PM

If you're in the SW come over to Chew some time. Biggest lake in the region and literally 100 Laser and Solo sailors to turn green with envy! And Butcombe on tap.

#224 Monkeyman

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 09:20 PM

Sosoomii happy to come to chew, it's only about 30 minutes from my office, I believe there is zero already there.

#225 Koops

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 09:30 PM

If you're in the SW come over to Chew some time. Biggest lake in the region and literally 100 Laser and Solo sailors to turn green with envy! And Butcombe on tap.

  

Sosoomii happy to come to chew, it's only about 30 minutes from my office, I believe there is zero already there.


Sosoomii and monkeyman, I've got a D Zero and live/work in the Bath/Bristol area, currently a member of South Cerney SC. I'd be keen to sail D Zeros together too....

#226 Monkeyman

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 06:39 AM

Koops, there are two of us just up the road past cheltenham. Would be keen for us to join up at some point.

We are planning on joining grafham for the winter and travelling up every other week, but if we can help build local fleets I'm sure that would be good value for everyone

#227 sosoomii

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 08:54 AM

Sosoomii happy to come to chew, it's only about 30 minutes from my office, I believe there is zero already there.


Yup, that be me :)

#228 Monkeyman

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 10:54 AM

Ahh i know who you are now then!!  



#229 washy71

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 12:47 PM

Possible D-Zero smaller rig scoop?

 

Arrived early for Wednesday night sailing last night and saw these two out on the water. Grabbed a rib and took a couple of pics. Blue sail had less foot length and visibly shorter mast too.

 

Attached File  D-Zero Small rig1.JPG   182.48K   69 downloads

 

Attached File  D-Zero Small rig2.JPG   225.4K   73 downloads



#230 jimmy kneewrecker

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 02:19 PM

it looks like a kid's rig on an adult's boat.... better than the other way around I guess  :P



#231 Crashed again

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 04:54 PM

That must be the smaller rig - I remember Rodney saying it was going to be blue to make it easily distinguishable from the full rig



#232 Monkeyman

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 09:24 PM

Picked up my zero this morning, along with another 8 that were delivered at the same time. Quality and attention detail are frankly remarkable for the price point. Even things like the top regatta cover have really brilliant attention to details like vents and neat 'd0' logos.

Attached Files



#233 jimmy kneewrecker

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 09:43 AM

very smart looking!



#234 fastyacht

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 01:02 AM

Picked up my zero this morning, along with another 8 that were delivered at the same time. Quality and attention detail are frankly remarkable for the price point. Even things like the top regatta cover have really brilliant attention to details like vents and neat 'd0' logos.

Pictures like those make us American dinghy sailors yearn for the old country...



#235 Jerryd

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 10:51 AM

Did anyone figure out how to buy one in the U.S., or did I miss that somewhere?



#236 rodneyGBR53

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 12:18 PM

Did anyone figure out how to buy one in the U.S., or did I miss that somewhere?

 

Hi Jerry,  Email me for progress on this one info@suntouched.co.uk   We are still working on establishing viable outlets for the D-Zero on your side of the pond.  Having said that we shipped a D-Zero to New York earlier this year so, at least, there is one in the USA already.



#237 Jerryd

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Posted 13 September 2014 - 01:23 PM

Did anyone figure out how to buy one in the U.S., or did I miss that somewhere?

 

Hi Jerry,  Email me for progress on this one info@suntouched.co.uk   We are still working on establishing viable outlets for the D-Zero on your side of the pond.  Having said that we shipped a D-Zero to New York earlier this year so, at least, there is one in the USA already.

 

Will do. Any chance he will bring it to HPDO in Rye, NY next month?



#238 ChuckLinn

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 07:05 PM

When most people sail this boat in a breeze, are they using the vang to hold down the boom so that when you sheet out, the boom goes out and doesn't just power the rig back up, or are they using mainsheet tension to do all the rig bending? In this way I was wondering why the laser boom-end sheeting was retained (or not bridle sheeting, used in conjunction with vang sheeting techniques).

 

If you use the vang to keep the rig bent "block to block" like I see in the pictures, and leave it on in tacks, can mere mortals get under the boom?  I know I'm old and decrepit, but when I super-vanged a laser it was always a stretch if I didn't let the boom lift.  Comments?



#239 fastyacht

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 08:28 PM

You can ask Daniel about that.

 

Certainly on a laser, the fact that you have both the ability to vang sheet and the ability to traveler sheet is an advantage.  The vang bends the mast differently than the sheet does, for the same amount of leech tension.



#240 Major Tom

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 08:42 PM

You can ask Daniel about that.
 
Certainly on a laser, the fact that you have both the ability to vang sheet and the ability to traveler sheet is an advantage.  The vang bends the mast differently than the sheet does, for the same amount of leech tension.

On a Laser, by the time you have as much leach tension on the main using the vang as you would get sheeting block to block with the main sheet, you are fairly close to destroying the boom and the aft end of the boom will be almost touching the deck. This is because the vang has such a large forward component force that causes the lower section to bend. This makes tacking a whole lot harder as the boom is seriously low. Back in the good old days before longer boom sleeves and when weight jackets were not just legal but were almost the norm, getting under the boom was quite a challenge especially in bad sea conditions.

#241 ChuckLinn

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Posted 17 September 2014 - 08:51 PM

Fastyacht - I agree with what you say.  I guess I've just trained myself (once again, blame Bethwaite) on the "let out sheet and luff slightly (vs. just luff) when a puff hits" camp, and I never felt I could do that in a laser - the rig just got fuller.  Of course, my guess is even if I could do this, any half-decent laser sailor would simply feather-hike and whomp my ass, and (referring to a previous post) all I could do is call out "Bethwaite!" to him - until he so far to windward and out of hailing distance :-)

 

But then again - that's what I get for sailing on an inland lake, where all of my sailing seems to be in eddies, puffs and swirls.



#242 bill4

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 02:05 PM

You can ask Daniel about that.
 
Certainly on a laser, the fact that you have both the ability to vang sheet and the ability to traveler sheet is an advantage.  The vang bends the mast differently than the sheet does, for the same amount of leech tension.

On a Laser, by the time you have as much leach tension on the main using the vang as you would get sheeting block to block with the main sheet, you are fairly close to destroying the boom and the aft end of the boom will be almost touching the deck. This is because the vang has such a large forward component force that causes the lower section to bend. This makes tacking a whole lot harder as the boom is seriously low. Back in the good old days before longer boom sleeves and when weight jackets were not just legal but were almost the norm, getting under the boom was quite a challenge especially in bad sea conditions.

Hmm - I need to think this through.  So lets say you sheet the Laser block to block and then take the slack out of the vang. Are you saying that when you ease the main the vang takes over and bends the mast differently - ie increased lower bend? And then when you return to block to block it eases the lower bend? Sounds logical -  I'll have to go hang out with the Laser guys this weekend and do some dryland experimentation!



#243 IC Nutter

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 02:08 PM

The vang bends the mast differently than the sheet does, for the same amount of leech tension.

 I have to disagree. On an unstayed rig, whether you use the vang or the sheet will have little or no effect on how the mast bends (as opposed to a stayed rig where it does have a large effect due to the extra support points). What may change, however, is the way the rig responds to gusts. If using sheeting, the end of the boom is effectively pinned in position. When using the vang it isn't, so the rig is free to oscillate fore and aft. Also when using the vang the boom is free to bend in response to gusts as well. The combination of these two dynamic effects will change the way the rig behaves, but the average amount of mast bend and the shape of the bend will be much the same in both cases, for the same amount of leech tension.



#244 Major Tom

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 03:37 PM

If you sheet block to block with no vang you are in effect using the tension on the leech to bend the mast, there is no forward component on the lower section from the boom. The top section will be close to its maximum bend due to the limited bend in the lower section.
If you crank the vang on, almost as much force that is pulling the boom down is also pushing it forwards inducing bend into the lower section. This flattens off the lower part of the sail and as the top section is not as loaded it allows better gust and chop response from the upper leech.
General rule on a Laser is if you want to point higher ease the vang while staying block to block as this straightens the rig and increases leech tension.

#245 ChuckLinn

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Posted 18 September 2014 - 04:09 PM

At least based on the mechanics, I agree with Major Tom, though would predict slightly different results in gusty winds.

  • In light air (laminar flow over the water, hence lots of low/high wind sheer) - you want twist. - same for both methods here.
  • As the wind picks up past, say 6 mph, wind flow over the lake becomes turbulent, and as a result, the wind sheer is much less.  Therefore you want to eliminate twist, but still want a fully powered rig - so, mainsheet tension should technically should work better than vang for this.  Vang would work, but bend the mast sooner, which you don't want yet.
  • As the wind starts to exceed the boat "design speed", you need to start reducing drag, e.g. flattening your sail.  Either system works OK here, but in this transition, most other boats with a dynamically adjustable traveller (to play the traveler for puffs) would use this, other boats would start vang sheeting. 
  • As the wind moves into the teens (and especially is gusty, which would be typical), you start to want twist again, while sheeting out.  Here, use of vang sheeting (plus cunningham) seems the only way to go.

Now comes the catch - some would say that in truth you want to play the sheet much more, in ALL of the above conditions - as a puff hits (even if you can easily hike it down) is STILL pays to ease a bit, while luffing a bit.  This gives you some momentary extra drive force to accelerate the boat in the puffs.  I think it is this sort of dynamic that Laser / D-zero gives up in middle wind strengths - because you are using your main to untwist your sail, and know that you are going to have to let out half a meter of sheet before the boom actually goes out - so you don't.  You just feather-hike and you're happy.

 

Its really a mute point, however - the D-zero is clearly sailing fast, and even if it could theoretically go a bit faster in a puffy 8-12 by vang sheeting more than mainsheet tensioning - who cares?? The boat still appears to have a very good vang.  Once could just as easily note that given it doesn't have a dynamically variable traveler either, the Aero REQUIRES you to vang sheet, so you end up with a flatter sail in the same conditions even when you don't want it. So.. we'll call it a wash, just a matter of preference. 

 

I wish I could sail a boat as much as I discuss them :-)



#246 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 19 September 2014 - 10:35 PM

I think it's kinda moot

there will be a clear speed & DPN difference between the designs

much in the same way a faster race car may still be quicker if it's gearbox has a 5-speed box and the slower one has a 6-speed




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