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Selling my boat and potential buyer


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#1 tacksea

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:52 PM

My catalina 30 is in dry storage , if a potential buyer wants to see the boat on the water , who pays for the launch ?
We don't have a slip anymore so the boat will have to be hauld out if not purchased.
Thanks

#2 Clove Hitch

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 11:17 PM

Need more details. What year is the boat?  If it is an older boat, you may want to just pony up so you can unload the thing. I sold my 1967 Ericson 26 for a 12 pack because I had to move with a quickness and nobody wanted to buy a boat that old.  I did hold out for a micro brew, though.



#3 kimbottles

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 11:38 PM

Standard procedure for such transaction: would be buyer makes offer, then counter offer etc until an agreed upon price, then sea trails (expenses negotiable), if pass sea trials, survey paid by buyer. 

 

I have purchased and sold many boats, always did it like this.

 

No free rides without signed agreed price, possibly adjustable later based on results of sea trials/survey.



#4 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:16 AM

As Kim says, prospective buyer has to return the boat to the same place and condition as it was.  That means the buyer pays for launch and commissioning (if needed) and return to storage if the deal isn't completed.  As a buyer, i would adjust my offer based on this cost and perform a thorough "pre-survey" and then the out of the water survey and possibly apply bottom paint (depending on my level of confidence in the boat) prior to launching for the sea trial. 

 

In this case, it's a Catalina 30.  They built about 10,000 of them and a smart buyer could probably get a sail on one by contacting the IC30A.  I have purchased a boat out of storage without a sea trial and shipped it 1/2 way across the country.  It was a production boat and the deal was lucrative.  I had a pretty good idea how it would sail and it met those expectations.  

 

If you really want to sell and the buyer really wants to buy, anything can be worked out.  



#5 tacksea

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:50 AM

Clove Hitch , it's a very clean 82 .
Kim & I B , thanks , i appreciate your advices .

#6 Jerry Cann

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 02:58 PM

As Kim says, prospective buyer has to return the boat to the same place and condition as it was.  That means the buyer pays for launch and commissioning (if needed) and return to storage if the deal isn't completed.  As a buyer, i would adjust my offer based on this cost and perform a thorough "pre-survey" and then the out of the water survey and possibly apply bottom paint (depending on my level of confidence in the boat) prior to launching for the sea trial. 

 

In this case, it's a Catalina 30.  They built about 10,000 of them and a smart buyer could probably get a sail on one by contacting the IC30A.  I have purchased a boat out of storage without a sea trial and shipped it 1/2 way across the country.  It was a production boat and the deal was lucrative.  I had a pretty good idea how it would sail and it met those expectations.  

 

If you really want to sell and the buyer really wants to buy, anything can be worked out.  

 

As a broker of 30+ years... the norm is that the buyer pays for any expenses to launch and commission for sea trials and survey and then return the boat to its place if the deal cannot be completed, based on the findings. All of which should be covered in a well written contract of sale. Having a "pretty good idea as to how it will sail" based on a sister-ship is not the point her at all.  You definitely want to have a complete survey. Without an acceptable survey the boat is un-insurable. If financing is involved, any lender will require survey and insurance as well.  

 

That brings up another issue --- a deposit or earnest money.  Should the buyer and seller agree to what we are saying above and.after. launch, sea trails and survey,  the buyer decides to back out and refuse to close the sale. The Owner is holding all the bills for launching and commissioning. The yard will collect its expenses from the owner not the buyer. After-all the yard has a relationship with the owner not the Buyer. Futhermore the yard has the power of a mechanic's lein against the title, to enforce it. I have witnessed several cases of FSBO (for sale by owner) that ended that way.

 

On the other hand the Buyer should be very wary of the safety of his deposit $$ in the hands of a stranger. There is no assurance the Buyer will ever get his deposit back should the sale not close.  The deposit money should not only represent good faith on the Buyers part, but also be readily available to cover expenses that occurred. Therefore the Buyer should insist that an independent party hold any earnest money until the sale closes satisfactory to all parties. 

 

All this points out the value of a Professional Broker. I realize there are few brokers will want to deal with a sale that pays very little commission as may be realized in the sale of an older Cat 30, but just want to point out some of the pitfalls of FSBO transactions, in general.  



#7 kimbottles

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:24 AM

FWIW I have always used a professional broker for my many boat transactions. He and I are good friends by now.

He has been worth his commission many times over for a variety of reasons mainly because he is a true honest professional and really knows how to keep a transaction moving forward to a happy conclusion.

Find a good broker and many of the FSBO pitfalls can be avoided.

I have a saying: "Paul Jenkins, don't buy or sell a boat without him." (Elliott Bay Yacht Sales.)

#8 Jerry Cann

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:06 PM

Kim, I'll second that!



#9 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 03:18 AM

As Kim says, prospective buyer has to return the boat to the same place and condition as it was.  That means the buyer pays for launch and commissioning (if needed) and return to storage if the deal isn't completed.  As a buyer, i would adjust my offer based on this cost and perform a thorough "pre-survey" and then the out of the water survey and possibly apply bottom paint (depending on my level of confidence in the boat) prior to launching for the sea trial. 
 
In this case, it's a Catalina 30.  They built about 10,000 of them and a smart buyer could probably get a sail on one by contacting the IC30A.  I have purchased a boat out of storage without a sea trial and shipped it 1/2 way across the country.  It was a production boat and the deal was lucrative.  I had a pretty good idea how it would sail and it met those expectations.  
 
If you really want to sell and the buyer really wants to buy, anything can be worked out.  


 
As a broker of 30+ years... the norm is that the buyer pays for any expenses to launch and commission for sea trials and survey and then return the boat to its place if the deal cannot be completed, based on the findings. All of which should be covered in a well written contract of sale. Having a "pretty good idea as to how it will sail" based on a sister-ship is not the point her at all.  You definitely want to have a complete survey. Without an acceptable survey the boat is un-insurable. If financing is involved, any lender will require survey and insurance as well.  
 
That brings up another issue --- a deposit or earnest money.  Should the buyer and seller agree to what we are saying above and.after. launch, sea trails and survey,  the buyer decides to back out and refuse to close the sale. The Owner is holding all the bills for launching and commissioning. The yard will collect its expenses from the owner not the buyer. After-all the yard has a relationship with the owner not the Buyer. Futhermore the yard has the power of a mechanic's lein against the title, to enforce it. I have witnessed several cases of FSBO (for sale by owner) that ended that way.
 
On the other hand the Buyer should be very wary of the safety of his deposit $$ in the hands of a stranger. There is no assurance the Buyer will ever get his deposit back should the sale not close.  The deposit money should not only represent good faith on the Buyers part, but also be readily available to cover expenses that occurred. Therefore the Buyer should insist that an independent party hold any earnest money until the sale closes satisfactory to all parties. 
 
All this points out the value of a Professional Broker. I realize there are few brokers will want to deal with a sale that pays very little commission as may be realized in the sale of an older Cat 30, but just want to point out some of the pitfalls of FSBO transactions, in general.  

All good points.

I've had good brokers and bad, great surveyors and ones who missed obvious faults. As an engineer with 50 years of sailing and a 35 year career in aviation and marine maintenance and support, I do a pretty mean pre-survey before making an offer and calling in a pro. A 30 year old boat that will sell for 20k plus or minus may or may not require a survey for a loan or insurance depending on the transaction, lender and underwriter. I currently own 3 boats. One requires a survey for insurance. Two (sub $20K insured value) do not. All three policies are with a well known marine underwriter.

Commission, launch, haul, survey, mechanical survey, rigger and sailmaker inspections and brokers commission all add up to 20% or more of the purchase price. In this part of the market, a FSBO is more likely and you rightly point out some of the pitfalls of that approach. My point is that cost of a sea trial is a buyer's expense and you don't always need a sea trial to make a deal. I bought a winterized boat in Chicago and it left town on a hauler without getting wet. A well written contract and an escrow account for items not tested with clear procedures for release of escrow does work. With a good out of the water survey (formal or not), the buyer should have a good understanding of the boats condition and a sea trial doesn't add much to that understanding beyond an evaluation of the mechanical condition of the running gear.

Not knocking brokers. For a higher dollar deal, always. At the lower priced portion of the market, it is less clear.

#10 Tom Ray

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 11:41 AM

I sold a few that never went in the water.

 

Boat yards get kind of irritated when you put up sails with a boat on stands. Hey, it was a dead calm summer morning! We got a quick look and we were done before they complained. ;)

 

You can run the engine on land, just find a way to get water to it.

 

It's pretty easy to figure the value of a Catalina 30. For the same reason, it's usually pretty easy for a buyer to find one that is already in the water or otherwise more conveniently located. But if it's in the water, people usually want to pick it up and look at the bottom. You pay some money or you take your chances...

 

If a buyer wants to pay for a travel lift, that's nice, but remember that checks can be cancelled and heed Jerry Cann's warning above.

 

If a buyer wants to take his chances and save the money for the boat fund, that works out pretty often too with inexpensive boats.

 

You never know what they're going to do. I just sold that old Com-Pac 16 that was briefly featured in "Mocking Ads" and it was a thoroughly strange transaction.

 

Nice old couple came out here and really only looked at the boat from the outside. Didn't get in the cabin or even the cockpit. I offered to run the outboard, but he said he'd take my word for it that it ran. They paid my asking price without even questioning it by personal check and left. Moments later, I noticed the gas tank. I raced out to give it to them. Hours later, I noticed the sails. The ones they never even asked to look at. Fortunately, they don't live too far away, so I delivered them the next day.

 

You'd think I had never sold a boat before. And you'd think they had never bought anything before. But it worked out. I guess they could still cancel that check, but it really doesn't seem like much of a risk in this case.

 

We had no intention of taking a personal check and it's not a good idea as a general rule. But if someone starts writing your asking price on a check, do you really want to stop that process? I considered it briefly and took the check.



#11 WarBird

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Posted 19 May 2014 - 03:16 PM

My catalina 30 is in dry storage , if a potential buyer wants to see the boat on the water , who pays for the launch ?
We don't have a slip anymore so the boat will have to be hauld out if not purchased.
Thanks

Send him/her a picture :)

 

Note,  I have bought 2 boats sight unseen and as it turned out from the same seller!  We are almost friends now and I wonder what he ll sell next?






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