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#1 Skol

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:48 PM

I'm a step closer to being engineless and am beginning to think about anchoring while under sail.    assume a quiet anchorage with lots of room for forgiveness. 

some pertinent info about my boat:

 

- usually singlehanded 

- 27 LOA, 7k displacement and lightly loaded 

- no windlass or bow roller 

- halyards at the mast 


What's the best approach?  

a: Luff up to drop point, deploy anchor and hope that the bow doesn't blow off into a reach,

b: deploy from the stern on a slow run under jib only, then muscle bow to wind after the anchor sets  

 

what say ye that have been there?



#2 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:57 PM

When I have done it I had the jib up and either rolled it or dropped it, headed into the wind, and dropped the anchor when the boat stopped.



#3 Ajax

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 04:58 PM

I say that a good anchor helps a lot.



#4 Ishmael

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 05:29 PM

I'm a step closer to being engineless and am beginning to think about anchoring while under sail.    assume a quiet anchorage with lots of room for forgiveness. 

some pertinent info about my boat:

 

- usually singlehanded 

- 27 LOA, 7k displacement and lightly loaded 

- no windlass or bow roller 

- halyards at the mast 


What's the best approach?  

a: Luff up to drop point, deploy anchor and hope that the bow doesn't blow off into a reach,

b: deploy from the stern on a slow run under jib only, then muscle bow to wind after the anchor sets  

 

what say ye that have been there?

 

You are going to be engineless in the Puget Sound/Salish Sea area?



#5 Skol

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 05:42 PM

I'm a step closer to being engineless and am beginning to think about anchoring while under sail.    assume a quiet anchorage with lots of room for forgiveness. 

some pertinent info about my boat:

 

- usually singlehanded 

- 27 LOA, 7k displacement and lightly loaded 

- no windlass or bow roller 

- halyards at the mast 


What's the best approach?  

a: Luff up to drop point, deploy anchor and hope that the bow doesn't blow off into a reach,

b: deploy from the stern on a slow run under jib only, then muscle bow to wind after the anchor sets  

 

what say ye that have been there?

 

You are going to be engineless in the Puget Sound/Salish Sea area?

 

hey, Vancouver did.   :D   j/k - I'm not suicidal.  I have a few months left here in SF bay.   Either I'll ship and splash my current boat at Shilshole with a diesel (edit:  i'm in the process of getting rid of the A4) or buy a different boat.   Leaving this one here to have a sunny spot to return to is a strong possibility.  



#6 ProaSailor

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 05:45 PM

I'm a step closer to being engineless and am beginning to think about anchoring while under sail.    assume a quiet anchorage with lots of room for forgiveness. 

some pertinent info about my boat:
 
- usually singlehanded 
- 27 LOA, 7k displacement and lightly loaded 
- no windlass or bow roller 
- halyards at the mast 

What's the best approach?  

a: Luff up to drop point, deploy anchor and hope that the bow doesn't blow off into a reach,

b: deploy from the stern on a slow run under jib only, then muscle bow to wind after the anchor sets  
 
what say ye that have been there?

 

Option 'a:' for sure, with sheets loose to prevent the blow off into a reach. If dropped quickly, it's not too deep and the anchor is adequate (BIG Rocna!), it will catch the bow very quickly. Then you can take your time letting out scope. Try to pick your spot correctly the first time! It's no fun realizing after the fact that you're too close to other boats and have to do it again, especially under sail.  It's much harder to raise anchor when under sail power alone than it is to drop it.



#7 armido

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:08 PM

When I have done it I had the jib up and either rolled it or dropped it, headed into the wind, and dropped the anchor when the boat stopped.

+1  But, not necessarily wait for the boat to stop.  If sufficient room is available one can use forward momentum to partially set the anchor.  Back the main to set the anchor as well. :ph34r:



#8 Skol

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:12 PM

I'm a step closer to being engineless and am beginning to think about anchoring while under sail.    assume a quiet anchorage with lots of room for forgiveness. 

some pertinent info about my boat:
 
- usually singlehanded 
- 27 LOA, 7k displacement and lightly loaded 
- no windlass or bow roller 
- halyards at the mast 

What's the best approach?  

a: Luff up to drop point, deploy anchor and hope that the bow doesn't blow off into a reach,

b: deploy from the stern on a slow run under jib only, then muscle bow to wind after the anchor sets  
 
what say ye that have been there?

 

Option 'a:' for sure, with sheets loose to prevent the blow off into a reach. If dropped quickly, it's not too deep and the anchor is adequate (BIG Rocna!), it will catch the bow very quickly. Then you can take your time letting out scope. Try to pick your spot correctly the first time! It's no fun realizing after the fact that you're too close to other boats and have to do it again, especially under sail.  It's much harder to raise anchor when under sail power alone than it is to drop it.

 

that part worries me the most.   I have a fair bit of side slip when hove-to, but that seems like it would be best for getting back to the cockpit and underway again after weighing anchor, especially if clawing off a lee shore.  For the first couple of attempts I'm thinking ~10ft of water, likely muddy or sandy bottom somewhere here in the bay.   my draft is right at 3'11" so I can hunt for the shallows.  



#9 Alex W

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:13 PM

I'm good friends with one engineless sailor at Shilshole (on a Yankee 30) and there are a few others around the 30' docks.  

 

He anchors by dropping jib, coming up into irons, deploy anchor, let the wind push the boat back.  You can then backwind with the main to help it set.  I think that this is one of the few maneuvers that is better with an engine though.  It's hard for me to really know if the anchor has set otherwise.

 

His Yankee 30 is crazy well balanced and it's easy to do foredeck work while the boat sails under main alone.  



#10 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:15 PM

Sailing off anchor against a nearby lee shore singlehanded is not a trivial undertaking in a good breeze.



#11 TQA

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:18 PM

On mine a 44 ft cutter I do this under main alone as it will tack even in light winds on main only.I run out a little chain so the anchor is just above the water.

 

I come head to wind at the drop spot just down wind of the spot with a little way still on, release the main sheet, walk forward and drop the anchor, the boat usually does blow off to one side but as I keep the chain with a little tension on it and this keeps the head to wind and lays the chain out. 

 

When I have the desired length out I push the main out to one side and get a little way on in reverse to set the anchor.

 

I have had to do this for real when I had engine issues.

 

There is an alternative technique which I have seen but not executed. Approach sailing down wind, drop the sails as you approach the spot, drop the anchor and carry on down wind at a slight angle but on a curve. When the desired length of chain is out snub the chain or rode setting the anchor and spinning the boat around. Very impressive except when the anchor does not catch and you drift downwind sideways towing the anchor, collecting other anchors and pinballing off other boats. 



#12 Alex W

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:20 PM

that part worries me the most.   I have a fair bit of side slip when hove-to, but that seems like it would be best for getting back to the cockpit and underway again after weighing anchor, especially if clawing off a lee shore.  For the first couple of attempts I'm thinking ~10ft of water, likely muddy or sandy bottom somewhere here in the bay.   my draft is right at 3'11" so I can hunt for the shallows.  

 

Practice on a mooring ball first, it's even easier.

 

I am still figuring out what works best for me when leaving.  On Saturday I sailed off of the anchor in a very light breeze (so little to go wrong) by turning my rudder in the direction that I wanted to go, pull the anchor in (which also steers the boat since water is now moving over the rudder), got the anchor secured, then unrolled the jib.  I sailed out close hauled on jib alone which was slow and had lots of leehelm, but made it easy to get around other boats in the anchorage.  When I had a little room I put up the main and got under way.

 

In the past I've done it by raising main first which turns the boat into the wind, then pulling in the anchor, then going back to the helm and falling off a bit and taking off.  The downside of this approach is that I didn't get to control my first tack, but otherwise it feels safer because the boat powers up as soon as the anchor is in.  I think I prefer this approach.



#13 hard aground

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:23 PM

Just to be the contrarian, I chuck the anchor off the stern and then muscle it up to the bow.  Sometimes I will just leave it off the stern though too if it's a short stay.



#14 Skol

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:50 PM

I'm good friends with one engineless sailor at Shilshole (on a Yankee 30) and there are a few others around the 30' docks.  

 

He anchors by dropping jib, coming up into irons, deploy anchor, let the wind push the boat back.  You can then backwind with the main to help it set.  I think that this is one of the few maneuvers that is better with an engine though.  It's hard for me to really know if the anchor has set otherwise.

 

His Yankee 30 is crazy well balanced and it's easy to do foredeck work while the boat sails under main alone.  

 

Yankee 30 - nice boat.  My slip neighbor here has a Yankee 26 and it's got a lot going for it. 

I can see being engineless at Shilshole - there's lots of room outside of the marina there and fetching over to Elliot Bay must be pretty easy.   This is going to be a bit of a trial period.   A buddy of mine sails a Pearson Triton engineless, and has oarlocks in the cockpit and two nice lightweight composite oars that are easily rowed while standing up.   he pivots that thing on a dime near the dock just like a dinghy.  it's nuts.  

re: setting the anchor, this is also one of my concerns.   I worry about drifting back and just dragging the anchor gently along with me.   I think that is the reason that some of the old timers would set anchor while on a run (option B in the op) , so as to be able to enough momentum to set the hook.  
 

 

that part worries me the most.   I have a fair bit of side slip when hove-to, but that seems like it would be best for getting back to the cockpit and underway again after weighing anchor, especially if clawing off a lee shore.  For the first couple of attempts I'm thinking ~10ft of water, likely muddy or sandy bottom somewhere here in the bay.   my draft is right at 3'11" so I can hunt for the shallows.  

 

Practice on a mooring ball first, it's even easier.

 

I am still figuring out what works best for me when leaving.  On Saturday I sailed off of the anchor in a very light breeze (so little to go wrong) by turning my rudder in the direction that I wanted to go, pull the anchor in (which also steers the boat since water is now moving over the rudder), got the anchor secured, then unrolled the jib.  I sailed out close hauled on jib alone which was slow and had lots of leehelm, but made it easy to get around other boats in the anchorage.  When I had a little room I put up the main and got under way.

 

In the past I've done it by raising main first which turns the boat into the wind, then pulling in the anchor, then going back to the helm and falling off a bit and taking off.  The downside of this approach is that I didn't get to control my first tack, but otherwise it feels safer because the boat powers up as soon as the anchor is in.  I think I prefer this approach.

 

I like yours and the others suggestion of just using the main.   that makes a lot of sense.  it's also a lot easier to control with one hand on the sheet and the other on the tiller. 
 

re: mooring balls - not many of those in SF bay.  the average depth is only about 12ft for most of it.   there are a few balls out by angel island, but the current in Raccoon Strait is on par with anything you'd find in the San Juans, which is to say effing evil.    I've tried making the dock there under sail twice now and failed to fight the current after overshooting my entry and having the wind drop.   good times.  point the bow down current and stay in the middle till you get to open water :) 



#15 DrewR

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:51 PM

Easy as can be. Drop the jib, head into the wind, come to a stop, drop anchor, backwind main for a set and your done.  Do it all the time. 



#16 Skol

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 06:54 PM

I have had to do this for real when I had engine issues.

 

There is an alternative technique which I have seen but not executed. Approach sailing down wind, drop the sails as you approach the spot, drop the anchor and carry on down wind at a slight angle but on a curve. When the desired length of chain is out snub the chain or rode setting the anchor and spinning the boat around. Very impressive except when the anchor does not catch and you drift downwind sideways towing the anchor, collecting other anchors and pinballing off other boats. 


aye!   I've never been able to trust my A4 for a littany of reasons rooted to my desire to get rid of it rather than love it.   Your last approach here is what I tried to describe earlier in option b.   This technique is discussed over on the WBF quite a bit, and I'm guessing it's for two reasons -  gaff riggers don't like to go to windward, and a bit extra speed helps set the anchor over relying on windage alone.   

Another thought I had was to drop anchor and wait for all the chain rode (only 20') to go over.  run the nylon rode around the chock and lead it aft to two turns on the winch,  paying out from the cockpit with the sails backed to gain a bit momentum, and then cleat off in the cockpit to set it.    If something goes wrong I'm not up on the bow staring into the water watching the boat float out of control.   



#17 Skol

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:04 PM

Just to be the contrarian, I chuck the anchor off the stern and then muscle it up to the bow.  Sometimes I will just leave it off the stern though too if it's a short stay.

 

this is what I'd greatly prefer to do.  are you stern to the wind while paying out the rode?   



#18 kimbottles

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:13 PM

SWMBO and I take great pride that we sail on and off the anchor. (We have not had the opportunity to do it on the Francis Lee yet, but we did it all the time on our Swede55.)

 

We would shorten sail as we entered the anchorage (usually by rolling up the jib) and then carefully pick a good spot away from others as we sailed into the anchorage. We would usually drop the anchor off the bow as we sailed slowly downwind and let the anchor catch us and spin us around head to wind, then we dropped the main. Simple and virtually fool proof as long as you keep the speed down. One or two knots of boat speed will set the anchor just fine, no need for any more. And it looks very dignified at low speed.

 

Sailing in under jib alone is also very effective (especially if you have roller furling).

 

But the key is to take your time and keep the boat speed low.

 

Sailing off is fairly simple, set the sails with the sheets loose, shorten up the anchor rode until it is straight up and down, sheet in a little on the main or jib to break out the anchor, hoist the anchor as you slowly sail around and then harden up the sheets and sail away. Just takes planning as to where you can go safety as you deal with the anchor. Sometimes I simply dragged the anchor through the water until we were clear of other boats and obstructions. Good way to get it cleaned off before you stow it.

 

When we anchor off the stern on the Francis Lee, we will come in under jib alone and keep rolling it up until we have the proper dignified boat speed to get the anchor to set.

 

On a side note, we once ran out of fuel in the Swede. (I was told we had a 30 gallons tank, it turned out to be more like 18 gallons. Damn listing yacht broker!) So we sailed into the Roche Harbor fuel dock under jib alone and we rolled it up as we approached until we had a nice 1 knot of boat speed. I had spring lines all rigged and waiting and it was a none event. Nice skill to have in your bag of tricks.

 

We have sailed the Francis Lee into her home dock now several times. The key there is also slowing down the boat speed and having spring lines rigged and ready.

 

Practice it where you have lots of room, you will be surprised how easy and handy it is.



#19 ProaSailor

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:16 PM

re: setting the anchor, this is also one of my concerns.   I worry about drifting back and just dragging the anchor gently along with me.   I think that is the reason that some of the old timers would set anchor while on a run (option B in the op) , so as to be able to enough momentum to set the hook.


What brand of anchor are you using? With the Rocna, I never worried about it setting under wind pressure alone and never used the engine to back down and set it.

 

Deploying off the stern because you think the momentum will give you a better set sounds unnecessarily dicey to me.

 

Kim, doesn't the chain scrape the hull if you deploy the anchor off the bow while sailing downwind?



#20 kimbottles

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:21 PM

re: setting the anchor, this is also one of my concerns.   I worry about drifting back and just dragging the anchor gently along with me.   I think that is the reason that some of the old timers would set anchor while on a run (option B in the op) , so as to be able to enough momentum to set the hook.


What brand of anchor are you using? With the Rocna, I never worried about it setting under wind pressure alone and never used the engine to back down and set it.

 

Deploying off the stern because you think the momentum will give you a better set sounds unnecessarily dicey to me.

 

Kim, doesn't the chain scrape the hull if you deploy the anchor off the bow while sailing downwind?

The chain did not hit the Swede's bow, I guess because of her generous overhangs. That is another good reason to anchor off the stern on Francis. We don't have much overhang so the bow spin program might not work that well on Francis.



#21 hard aground

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:48 PM

Just to be the contrarian, I chuck the anchor off the stern and then muscle it up to the bow.  Sometimes I will just leave it off the stern though too if it's a short stay.

 

this is what I'd greatly prefer to do.  are you stern to the wind while paying out the rode?   

Yes. Generally just under either main or jib in a lighter, dying breeze. Nice broad reach, chuck the danforth off the stern (make sure the rode is under the stern rail) (also good idea to throw the bitter end around a cleat).  Once it's made pay out a bit of extra line and walk it around to the bow cleat.   Douse sails and adjust and clean everything up nice. Enjoy a beverage. Or six.



#22 Alcatraz5768

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 07:51 PM

My old yacht had a very unreliable engine so we used to sail onto and off anchor and into and out of the marina all the time. Trick is to not approach anything faster than you're prepared to hit it. I always anchored under main, just luff up so you are stopped at the drop point with the sheet not only uncleated, but pulled through the blocks so it's really free, drop the anchor and drift back. Normally the wind age of the main is enough to set the anchor. In the morning, up with the main, then up with the anchor, as you get the anchor up and stroll nonchalantly back to the cockpit the bow has blown off a little so you sheet on a little and cruise away. Couldn't be easier, we used to do it all the time so the engine didn't wake the kids up.

#23 Clove Hitch

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:05 PM

I usually pull the swing keel up, ease the main,  drop a kedge off the stern and let out slack until I'm about 20' from the beach.  Then, I snub it, cleat it off, drop the swim ladder and walk the bow anchor to the beach. 



#24 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 08:13 PM

No need to suffer an unreliable A4. I swapped out one that had issues of all types for one expertly rebuilt and it has been as reliable as an engine can be. The original also covered many thousands of miles before it finally started going bad after thousands of hours.

I have had to do this for real when I had engine issues.

 

There is an alternative technique which I have seen but not executed. Approach sailing down wind, drop the sails as you approach the spot, drop the anchor and carry on down wind at a slight angle but on a curve. When the desired length of chain is out snub the chain or rode setting the anchor and spinning the boat around. Very impressive except when the anchor does not catch and you drift downwind sideways towing the anchor, collecting other anchors and pinballing off other boats. 


aye!   I've never been able to trust my A4 for a littany of reasons rooted to my desire to get rid of it rather than love it.   Your last approach here is what I tried to describe earlier in option b.   This technique is discussed over on the WBF quite a bit, and I'm guessing it's for two reasons -  gaff riggers don't like to go to windward, and a bit extra speed helps set the anchor over relying on windage alone.   

Another thought I had was to drop anchor and wait for all the chain rode (only 20') to go over.  run the nylon rode around the chock and lead it aft to two turns on the winch,  paying out from the cockpit with the sails backed to gain a bit momentum, and then cleat off in the cockpit to set it.    If something goes wrong I'm not up on the bow staring into the water watching the boat float out of control.   



#25 Skol

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:14 PM

 are you stern to the wind while paying out the rode?   

Yes. Generally just under either main or jib in a lighter, dying breeze. Nice broad reach, chuck the danforth off the stern (make sure the rode is under the stern rail) (also good idea to throw the bitter end around a cleat).  Once it's made pay out a bit of extra line and walk it around to the bow cleat.   Douse sails and adjust and clean everything up nice. Enjoy a beverage. Or six.


awesome.  I really like this idea so I can stay near the helm.   nope, no autopilot either.  such equipment is not befitting my Viking themed (woefully inadequate) vessel.    

 

 

 

re: setting the anchor, this is also one of my concerns.   I worry about drifting back and just dragging the anchor gently along with me.   I think that is the reason that some of the old timers would set anchor while on a run (option B in the op) , so as to be able to enough momentum to set the hook.


What brand of anchor are you using? With the Rocna, I never worried about it setting under wind pressure alone and never used the engine to back down and set it.

 

Deploying off the stern because you think the momentum will give you a better set sounds unnecessarily dicey to me.

 

Kim, doesn't the chain scrape the hull if you deploy the anchor off the bow while sailing downwind?

The chain did not hit the Swede's bow, I guess because of her generous overhangs. That is another good reason to anchor off the stern on Francis. We don't have much overhang so the bow spin program might not work that well on Francis.


I have two danforth anchors - a bigun and a littlun.  there's about 20' of chain rode before the nylon, which is only about 100'.    that's plenty for bay and delta cruising around here.  obviously for the PNW it's woefully inadequate. 

 

Overhangs!  Finally, something my boat does have.  All 7 feet of 'em. 



#26 Ajax

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:35 PM

A Danforth anchor is ok, but if you're going to go engineless and sail on and off the anchor, don't be cheap. Give yourself every advantage, go buy a new generation anchor.

 

I don't care which one, I'm not here to debate anchor religion. Just pick one.



#27 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:39 PM

Agree - the Danforth works pretty well, but sometimes I have to give it a few goes to get it hooked. It would be a major PITA under sail to do that.



#28 armido

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:43 PM

Good you realize your ground tackle is inadequate for the P.N.W..  While anchor chain is expensive, you'll never regret having a minimum of 100' and either a 35# CQR (recommended) and or a 22# Bruce anchor to supplement the Danforths.  Especially since you plan on going engineless.  Lightweight anchors tend to 'sail' through the water.  A problem if you expect to anchor while still moving.  :ph34r:



#29 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 09:58 PM

+1

My Fortress will plane and follow along on the surface :o



#30 ProaSailor

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:11 PM

A Danforth anchor is ok, but if you're going to go engineless and sail on and off the anchor, don't be cheap. Give yourself every advantage, go buy a new generation anchor.

 

I don't care which one, I'm not here to debate anchor religion. Just pick one.

 

Ah, come on, you do care and it's not religion.  Are there other "new generation anchors" besides Rocna and Manson Supreme?  The setting (and resetting) behavior, along with holding power, of these "new" designs can make a world of difference, esp. when the wind is up.



#31 Skol

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:16 PM

yeah, the fella I bought the boat from spent most of his time on the hook up in the delta, and for those purposes what I have is adequate.   I wouldn't dream of using my current ground tackle up north in deep water. 


so let's hear it -  thoughts on the CQR vs. Rocna  for the PNW?   My line of thinking to date was that an oversized 44lb Rocna on 50' of chain and 300' of nylon would be reasonable for most places.  There is a limit to what's really feasible on a small boat with no windlass.   Weighing 100' of chain by hand sounds like a pretty tall order.  I'm young but not that young!  (40).   



#32 Skol

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:32 PM

SWMBO and I take great pride that we sail on and off the anchor. (We have not had the opportunity to do it on the Francis Lee yet, but we did it all the time on our Swede55.)

 

We would shorten sail as we entered the anchorage (usually by rolling up the jib) and then carefully pick a good spot away from others as we sailed into the anchorage. We would usually drop the anchor off the bow as we sailed slowly downwind and let the anchor catch us and spin us around head to wind, then we dropped the main. Simple and virtually fool proof as long as you keep the speed down. One or two knots of boat speed will set the anchor just fine, no need for any more. And it looks very dignified at low speed.

 ... 

Sailing off is fairly simple, set the sails with the sheets loose, shorten up the anchor rode until it is straight up and down, sheet in a little on the main or jib to break out the anchor, hoist the anchor as you slowly sail around and then harden up the sheets and sail away. Just takes planning as to where you can go safety as you deal with the anchor. Sometimes I simply dragged the anchor through the water until we were clear of other boats and obstructions. Good way to get it cleaned off before you stow it.

 

Thanks for the detailed writeup kimbottles.    Makes perfect sense.  



#33 Ishmael

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 10:32 PM

yeah, the fella I bought the boat from spent most of his time on the hook up in the delta, and for those purposes what I have is adequate.   I wouldn't dream of using my current ground tackle up north in deep water. 


so let's hear it -  thoughts on the CQR vs. Rocna  for the PNW?   My line of thinking to date was that an oversized 44lb Rocna on 50' of chain and 300' of nylon would be reasonable for most places.  There is a limit to what's really feasible on a small boat with no windlass.   Weighing 100' of chain by hand sounds like a pretty tall order.  I'm young but not that young!  (40).   

 

35' boat, 35 lb Delta, 100' 1/4" HT chain, 300' 1/2" 3-braid nylon. A Rocna or Manson would be better, a CQR worse IMHO. Chain and anchor together are about 110 lbs, so a good workout if you're anchored in over 50', which is fairly uncommon.



#34 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 15 July 2014 - 11:05 PM

IMHO Rocna/Manson > Delta > CQR > Danforth.

Not sure where to put the Bruce. Most of them are the fake copies now and all the tests show them to be the worst as far as weigth vs. holding. OTOH people I meet that have them like them.

 

I put the Fortress off to the side. it is a very useful anchor that can hold very well, but I do NOT trust it as a primary anchor one bit.



#35 Alex W

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 12:42 AM

25lb Manson Supreme and 300' of nylon with 25' of chain works great for my tub. The Ericson has a little less windage and displacement and should be fine with a similar setup. The Manson Supreme was a steal (around $150-175?) at the boat show a couple of years ago, just wait if you don't need it yet.

Lots of people up here use 22lb Bruce anchors on similar size boats, the modern anchors have far holding power.

#36 monsoon

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 01:16 AM

SWMBO and I take great pride that we sail on and off the anchor. (We have not had the opportunity to do it on the Francis Lee yet, but we did it all the time on our Swede55.)

 

We would shorten sail as we entered the anchorage (usually by rolling up the jib) and then carefully pick a good spot away from others as we sailed into the anchorage. We would usually drop the anchor off the bow as we sailed slowly downwind and let the anchor catch us and spin us around head to wind, then we dropped the main. Simple and virtually fool proof as long as you keep the speed down. One or two knots of boat speed will set the anchor just fine, no need for any more. And it looks very dignified at low speed.

 ... 

Sailing off is fairly simple, set the sails with the sheets loose, shorten up the anchor rode until it is straight up and down, sheet in a little on the main or jib to break out the anchor, hoist the anchor as you slowly sail around and then harden up the sheets and sail away. Just takes planning as to where you can go safety as you deal with the anchor. Sometimes I simply dragged the anchor through the water until we were clear of other boats and obstructions. Good way to get it cleaned off before you stow it.

 

Thanks for the detailed writeup kimbottles.    Makes perfect sense.  

 

I have a hard time seeing how downwind works if it is blowing more than 10 kts. Hard to keep the boatspeed low enough, no?

 

I always used main alone going upwind b/c it is easy to just release the sheet, walk forward and drop the anchor. Then pay out the rode while keeping some tension on it to keep her head to wind.  Same sailing off. Raise the main, haul in the anchor, step back to the cockpit and sheet in. Jib out at your leisure. 



#37 Ajax

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 01:40 AM

A Danforth anchor is ok, but if you're going to go engineless and sail on and off the anchor, don't be cheap. Give yourself every advantage, go buy a new generation anchor.

 

I don't care which one, I'm not here to debate anchor religion. Just pick one.

 

Ah, come on, you do care and it's not religion.  Are there other "new generation anchors" besides Rocna and Manson Supreme?  The setting (and resetting) behavior, along with holding power, of these "new" designs can make a world of difference, esp. when the wind is up.

 

Yes, actually. The Mantus is another similar, new generation anchor. Besides that, there's more than just the "Supreme", there's the Manson Boss which is also highly recommended.  Hey, I'd say he's moving forward if he got a genuine Bruce and kept the Danforth as a supplement.



#38 kimbottles

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 01:48 AM

 

SWMBO and I take great pride that we sail on and off the anchor. (We have not had the opportunity to do it on the Francis Lee yet, but we did it all the time on our Swede55.)

 

We would shorten sail as we entered the anchorage (usually by rolling up the jib) and then carefully pick a good spot away from others as we sailed into the anchorage. We would usually drop the anchor off the bow as we sailed slowly downwind and let the anchor catch us and spin us around head to wind, then we dropped the main. Simple and virtually fool proof as long as you keep the speed down. One or two knots of boat speed will set the anchor just fine, no need for any more. And it looks very dignified at low speed.

 ... 

Sailing off is fairly simple, set the sails with the sheets loose, shorten up the anchor rode until it is straight up and down, sheet in a little on the main or jib to break out the anchor, hoist the anchor as you slowly sail around and then harden up the sheets and sail away. Just takes planning as to where you can go safety as you deal with the anchor. Sometimes I simply dragged the anchor through the water until we were clear of other boats and obstructions. Good way to get it cleaned off before you stow it.

 

Thanks for the detailed writeup kimbottles.    Makes perfect sense.  

 

I have a hard time seeing how downwind works if it is blowing more than 10 kts. Hard to keep the boatspeed low enough, no?

 

I always used main alone going upwind b/c it is easy to just release the sheet, walk forward and drop the anchor. Then pay out the rode while keeping some tension on it to keep her head to wind.  Same sailing off. Raise the main, haul in the anchor, step back to the cockpit and sheet in. Jib out at your leisure. 

Bare poles works well sometimes, other times with a lot of wind you just have to come up to weather and set it as you suggested. Got to be flexible if you want to anchor successfully all the time under sail.



#39 Skol

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:41 AM

25lb Manson Supreme and 300' of nylon with 25' of chain works great for my tub. The Ericson has a little less windage and displacement and should be fine with a similar setup. The Manson Supreme was a steal (around $150-175?) at the boat show a couple of years ago, just wait if you don't need it yet.

Lots of people up here use 22lb Bruce anchors on similar size boats, the modern anchors have far holding power.

 

nice!  yeah, I'm in no hurry to upgrade until getting north.   Looking over Rocna's sizing chart earlier and it suggests a 22lb/10kg.  either that or the Manson Supreme sound pretty great and very easy to handle.   My current bigger danforth is a mid 20's something and the small one is a 13. 

 

 

 

A Danforth anchor is ok, but if you're going to go engineless and sail on and off the anchor, don't be cheap. Give yourself every advantage, go buy a new generation anchor.

 

I don't care which one, I'm not here to debate anchor religion. Just pick one.

 

Ah, come on, you do care and it's not religion.  Are there other "new generation anchors" besides Rocna and Manson Supreme?  The setting (and resetting) behavior, along with holding power, of these "new" designs can make a world of difference, esp. when the wind is up.

 

Yes, actually. The Mantus is another similar, new generation anchor. Besides that, there's more than just the "Supreme", there's the Manson Boss which is also highly recommended.  Hey, I'd say he's moving forward if he got a genuine Bruce and kept the Danforth as a supplement.

 

thinking longer term, I was checking the Mantus out just earlier.  An +2 upsize could be a good option to have as a storm anchor since it can be broken down into 3 parts and stored somewhere low and closer to center on the boat.  My forward bilge is empty save for a 50~ 75'ish lb brick of trim lead; perfect spot for an additional 100' of chain.

 



#40 Alcatraz5768

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 08:33 AM

I've always had danforths and never dragged, however I bought a used delta as I felt it was a step up and it dragged first time out, I swapped back and haven't changed. Only real problem with the danforth is the lack of self stowing. BTW I downloaded an app called drag-queen to iPhone which wakes me when the delta lets go.

#41 Clove Hitch

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 12:03 PM

 

A Danforth anchor is ok, but if you're going to go engineless and sail on and off the anchor, don't be cheap. Give yourself every advantage, go buy a new generation anchor.

 

I don't care which one, I'm not here to debate anchor religion. Just pick one.

 

Ah, come on, you do care and it's not religion.  Are there other "new generation anchors" besides Rocna and Manson Supreme?  The setting (and resetting) behavior, along with holding power, of these "new" designs can make a world of difference, esp. when the wind is up.

 

Yes, actually. The Mantus is another similar, new generation anchor. Besides that, there's more than just the "Supreme", there's the Manson Boss which is also highly recommended.  Hey, I'd say he's moving forward if he got a genuine Bruce and kept the Danforth as a supplement.

 

You can never go wrong with a Bruce! 



#42 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 12:34 PM

My Danforth can hold a cruise ship if it gets set real well in clay, but oyster beds totally defeat it. You get one shell on each point and it just slides around.

I've always had danforths and never dragged, however I bought a used delta as I felt it was a step up and it dragged first time out, I swapped back and haven't changed. Only real problem with the danforth is the lack of self stowing. BTW I downloaded an app called drag-queen to iPhone which wakes me when the delta lets go.



#43 armido

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 12:48 PM

Well.  My experience with the CQR after two, 4+ year 'except for a smidgen' global circumnavigations and more than 5 years of sailing and anchoring in the San Juan Islands,  says your judgement on the CQR is wrong.  Silty and grassy bottoms are to be avoided, but that's true of most anchors.  Just gotta pick your ground carefully.

 

Regarding rope vs. chain.  Minimize the chain in favour of rope at your peril. :ph34r:

yeah, the fella I bought the boat from spent most of his time on the hook up in the delta, and for those purposes what I have is adequate.   I wouldn't dream of using my current ground tackle up north in deep water. 


so let's hear it -  thoughts on the CQR vs. Rocna  for the PNW?   My line of thinking to date was that an oversized 44lb Rocna on 50' of chain and 300' of nylon would be reasonable for most places.  There is a limit to what's really feasible on a small boat with no windlass.   Weighing 100' of chain by hand sounds like a pretty tall order.  I'm young but not that young!  (40).   

 

35' boat, 35 lb Delta, 100' 1/4" HT chain, 300' 1/2" 3-braid nylon. A Rocna or Manson would be better, a CQR worse IMHO. Chain and anchor together are about 110 lbs, so a good workout if you're anchored in over 50', which is fairly uncommon.



#44 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 01:24 PM

Because a CQR works does not mean another anchor is not better.

My experience with a large CQR and heavy chain in the BVIs was not totally good. It was so heavy it felt set when it was not. What we finally did was I would dive down on the anchor with a tennis ball in my pocket. I would hold the anchor point-down and then let the tennis ball go. When the helmsman saw the ball on the surface he would hit reverse on both engines and I made sure the anchor dug in.



#45 Py26129

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 01:30 PM

We cruised for 12 years with a CQR as our main anchor and never had a real problem.  True it was not so good in weedy bottoms and we had to make sure it was well set every time we anchored, but that's just good practice.

 

On our current boat we have a 35 lbs cheapie bruce as our main anchor and a 35 lbs Delta (donated by a friend who hated it).  Either one of sets easier than the CQR but we still make sure it's set well before starting happy hour.



#46 armido

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:25 PM

Skol said:

 

"...there are a few balls out by angel island, but the current in Raccoon Strait is on par with anything you'd find in the San Juans, which is to say effing evil.    I've tried making the dock there under sail twice now and failed to fight the current after overshooting my entry and having the wind drop.   good times.  point the bow down current and stay in the middle till you get to open water  :) "

 

I say:

 

Current.  Can't agree more, but wonder if you've ever approached Eagle Harbor (48 35.2728 N 122 41.4672 W) at Cedar Island past Cone Island?   I wouldn't sail through there without a working engine, or even think about trying to pick up a mooring further south at Deepwater Bay 48 33.4188 N 122 41.0789 W under sail without my engine at least running and available if I missed... :blink:



#47 ccruiser

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 04:41 PM

We use the main sail, up wind method to anchor under sail, but have never done it single handed, although I do not think that would change how we anchor under sail.  On a smaller boat, a 21 footer, we anchored off the stern, but not on our bigger boats.  We pick our spot, roll the jib, get the anchor ready to deploy, approach with main only, up wind, and then go head to wind, with me dropping the main sail as I go forward to drop the anchor.  We have a Tides Strong Track so the main comes down on its own as long as the halyard is made ready to run.  Up wind, main only allows us to have control over the boat both approaching the "spot" and once the anchor is dropped and the boat is falling off.  We have a Bruce, which is oversized at 66 lbs, with all 3/8's chain. To me the key to getting the anchor to hold is to play out sufficient rode before you snub up the hook to straighten out the boat, and to not jerk it - I have always been generous with the amount of rode, erring on the side of too much, particularly if there is a fair amount of wind.  The last thing you need when anchoring with no engine is for the anchor to drag, as has been pointed out here.   We have used the Bruce (on a previous cruising boat an oversized CQR with the same results) throughout the Eastern Caribbean, the Bahamas and the U.S. East Coast - Florida, the Keyes, Mexico, the Chesapeake and the northeast without any issues, in winds as high as 40+ knots, (as others have mentioned we stay out of the hurricane zones, see a very low coefficient of fun in hurricanes), for over 12 years.  Whatever the advantages of the "modern" anchors our Bruce is paid for and has worked for us.  See no reason to change either the anchor or the all chain, quite the contrary. Finally, we never back down on the anchor with the engine, just let it set itself. We have never dragged, knock on wood. But we avoid anchoring in heavy weed. Life is too short for that.



#48 blackjenner

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 09:23 PM

I have a book by Eric Tabarly that had a lot of diagrams and information on maneuvering under sail. There are a lot of really nice diagrams from that book (out of print).

 

You can check out some of them in this public album by starting here:

 

https://lh6.googleus...-05-31 13.24.43



#49 JBE

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 11:22 PM

My experience is that  sailing in to anchor generally sets the anchor better than  the typical stop , drop and back up in line motoring method. I think that's because the bow usually pays off and cranks the anchor in. We'd vary methods depending on the anchorage and breeze strength and direction relative to shore. The fuck it , its going in and setting this time is what we called a running moor as Kim describes, but it'd have to be pretty light for us to do that with the main up. there's always a price to pay for that though , might be chain marks on the topsides or that lovely antifoul you sweated over all over the warp.

Anchorages we knew we'd  just pick our spot , drop sail and anchor in one hit. Worst come to worst and we weren't happy , its set a staysail and sail out , get the main back up and have another go.

 Leaving a close anchorage with an offshore breeze its often  better to get the anchor up , let the boat pay off and spin on its keel , set a headsail and get out far enough to round up and set the main. Sailing off with the main up is all about timing the break out  so you pay off the way you want to go.



#50 kimbottles

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 12:48 AM

We use the term "running moor" too.

#51 Skol

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:00 AM

Skol said:

 

"...there are a few balls out by angel island, but the current in Raccoon Strait is on par with anything you'd find in the San Juans, which is to say effing evil.    I've tried making the dock there under sail twice now and failed to fight the current after overshooting my entry and having the wind drop.   good times.  point the bow down current and stay in the middle till you get to open water  :) "

 

I say:

 

Current.  Can't agree more, but wonder if you've ever approached Eagle Harbor (48 35.2728 N 122 41.4672 W) at Cedar Island past Cone Island?   I wouldn't sail through there without a working engine, or even think about trying to pick up a mooring further south at Deepwater Bay 48 33.4188 N 122 41.0789 W under sail without my engine at least running and available if I missed... :blink:


sure haven't.   I've been up to Sucia and Orcas, Friday Harbor on twin screw power boats but my sailing is limited to reaching between shilshole and port madison.   moved in 2007 before being able to buy a boat.  

as for that particular spot, I can't imagine going anywhere in the san juans without careful planning, even with a motor.   there are plenty of little areas I'm sure that aren't worth the risk when the wind's light or unpredictable and the current is really running.  the truth of the matter is that being a complete idiot is nearly identical to materialized risk after careful planning when a negative outcome is considered.  



#52 Skol

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:06 AM

We use the term "running moor" too.

 

I prize succinct terms.   Committing that one to my vocabulary.   
 

My experience is that  sailing in to anchor generally sets the anchor better than  the typical stop , drop and back up in line motoring method. I think that's because the bow usually pays off and cranks the anchor in. We'd vary methods depending on the anchorage and breeze strength and direction relative to shore. The fuck it , its going in and setting this time is what we called a running moor as Kim describes, but it'd have to be pretty light for us to do that with the main up. there's always a price to pay for that though , might be chain marks on the topsides or that lovely antifoul you sweated over all over the warp.

Anchorages we knew we'd  just pick our spot , drop sail and anchor in one hit. Worst come to worst and we weren't happy , its set a staysail and sail out , get the main back up and have another go.

 Leaving a close anchorage with an offshore breeze its often  better to get the anchor up , let the boat pay off and spin on its keel , set a headsail and get out far enough to round up and set the main. Sailing off with the main up is all about timing the break out  so you pay off the way you want to go.


not sure anybody would notice on my boat ...

I like what you say about breeze.  I'd rather be in an anchorage than threading a needle up some godforsaken creek to play bumper boats with commercial traffic and seeking approving looks from business owners.   breeze is good.  



#53 Skol

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:14 AM

We use the main sail, up wind method to anchor under sail, but have never done it single handed, although I do not think that would change how we anchor under sail.  On a smaller boat, a 21 footer, we anchored off the stern, but not on our bigger boats.  We pick our spot, roll the jib, get the anchor ready to deploy, approach with main only, up wind, and then go head to wind, with me dropping the main sail as I go forward to drop the anchor.  We have a Tides Strong Track so the main comes down on its own as long as the halyard is made ready to run.  Up wind, main only allows us to have control over the boat both approaching the "spot" and once the anchor is dropped and the boat is falling off.  We have a Bruce, which is oversized at 66 lbs, with all 3/8's chain. To me the key to getting the anchor to hold is to play out sufficient rode before you snub up the hook to straighten out the boat, and to not jerk it - I have always been generous with the amount of rode, erring on the side of too much, particularly if there is a fair amount of wind.  The last thing you need when anchoring with no engine is for the anchor to drag, as has been pointed out here.   We have used the Bruce (on a previous cruising boat an oversized CQR with the same results) throughout the Eastern Caribbean, the Bahamas and the U.S. East Coast - Florida, the Keyes, Mexico, the Chesapeake and the northeast without any issues, in winds as high as 40+ knots, (as others have mentioned we stay out of the hurricane zones, see a very low coefficient of fun in hurricanes), for over 12 years.  Whatever the advantages of the "modern" anchors our Bruce is paid for and has worked for us.  See no reason to change either the anchor or the all chain, quite the contrary. Finally, we never back down on the anchor with the engine, just let it set itself. We have never dragged, knock on wood. But we avoid anchoring in heavy weed. Life is too short for that.


the Tides Track is a nice system.  when I have a new main built that's the route I'd like to go.  I have old plastic slugs in a sticky T track.  It stinks. 


If the anchor isn't setting, no way you want the main dropped at that point!   :)    I've been thinking that by keeping the chain part of the rode short, I'll run the nylon back to the cockpit and put a couple of turns onto the winch.   In this case it should be pretty simple to sheet the main in a bit to get forward progress and take in the rode up to the chain, and reach over to a different drop spot.  



#54 Skol

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:19 AM

I have a book by Eric Tabarly that had a lot of diagrams and information on maneuvering under sail. There are a lot of really nice diagrams from that book (out of print).

 

You can check out some of them in this public album by starting here:

 

https://lh6.googleus...-05-31 13.24.43


love those old drawings.  is there a link the root album?    book must be long out of print, I'm assuming.  what's the title?   



#55 NavyDoc

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:17 AM

We often anchored our J/105 stern-to on hot nights with light winds. The dodger effectively funnels air below, making the cabin cooler. When dropping anchor (Fortress), I would make-off the appropriate scope at the bow, then bring the anchor and rode aft outside the shrouds and lifelines, and drop from the cockpit with the bow heading downwind. This is especially handy when single handing. When the anchor is set tie it off to a stern cleat. If the wind pipes up, or when you head below to sleep, let the line off the stern cleat and the boat will pivot around head to wind, with one boat length extra scope. Just make sure she pivots the right way so you don't foul your sticky-out parts. I have done this under sail...well bare poles, actually. Gotta be slow to get the Fortress down.

#56 armido

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:43 PM

Although the subject is anchoring under sail, there are times when one wants to pick up a mooring under sail.  For a solo sailor in particular, leaving the helm to go forward hopefully fast enough to grab a mooring with a boat hook or other means, is risky in almost any wind and or current.  Especially under sail.  Either a jib only or deeply reefed main is best when trying this because they can be lowered more quickly.  Even crewed boats can be a source of entertainment as a crewmember trys to grab a mooring from the bow.  Easier, especially if your boat has a low freeboard, is to sail (or motor if you have one)  toward the mooring so that the mooring will be abreast of and to leeward of the cockpit on approach.  Also, if there is significant current you must consider its effect on your speed and direction of travel..  Your objective, if you have a low freeboard is to slow sufficiently by bringing the boat into irons and near enough to reach down and grab the mooring.  Quickly run your line through the loop or ring and walk the mooring forward to the bow.  Cleat the Iine, and douse your sail.  In a worst case scenario you can quickly bend your line onto a cleat at the cockpit while you attend to other matters. If your freeboard is not low enough to grab the mooring, grab it with your favourite tool, typically a boat hook. Boats with structural "stuff in the way", like canopy frames and such may not be able to do any of this.  Another reason for keeping things simple... :ph34r:



#57 European Bloke

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:00 PM

Thing about anchoring under sail and sailing off the anchor is that it's dead easy when the conditions are right.

 

If you drop the hook and start to drag, particularly in a bit of breeze and a tight corner, it gets exciting very quickly.

 

Likewise you drop the hook on a nice evening in a good spot and in the morning it's blown up from the wrong direction and some fellow has anchored in the wrong place and you've got a bit on.

 

I like to avoid using the engine when possible, but I wouldn't want to lose the option.



#58 TQA

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:11 PM

Although the subject is anchoring under sail, there are times when one wants to pick up a mooring under sail.  For a solo sailor in particular, leaving the helm to go forward hopefully fast enough to grab a mooring with a boat hook or other means, is risky in almost any wind and or current.  Especially under sail.  Either a jib only or deeply reefed main is best when trying this because they can be lowered more quickly.  Even crewed boats can be a source of entertainment as a crewmember trys to grab a mooring from the bow.  Easier, especially if your boat has a low freeboard, is to sail (or motor if you have one)  toward the mooring so that the mooring will be abreast of and to leeward of the cockpit on approach.  Also, if there is significant current you must consider its effect on your speed and direction of travel..  Your objective, if you have a low freeboard is to slow sufficiently by bringing the boat into irons and near enough to reach down and grab the mooring.  Quickly run your line through the loop or ring and walk the mooring forward to the bow.  Cleat the Iine, and douse your sail.  In a worst case scenario you can quickly bend your line onto a cleat at the cockpit while you attend to other matters. If your freeboard is not low enough to grab the mooring, grab it with your favourite tool, typically a boat hook. Boats with structural "stuff in the way", like canopy frames and such may not be able to do any of this.  Another reason for keeping things simple... :ph34r:

 

An improvement to this technique which is the one I employ is to have a line from the bow cleat led back to the cockpit on the outside of the shrouds etc. It terminates in a large clip see below. As before get the mooring alongside the cockpit but now clip your line to the mooring and drop the mainsail.Now sort out the mooring line.

 

I have done this for real and it is MUCH easier than running forward to the bow negotiating the shrouds etc as you go. 

Attached Files



#59 Alex W

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 04:48 PM

I've also picked up moorings from the cockpit, but don't use a large caribiner like that.  

 

I just run a longer than boat length line from the bow cleat.  Picked up the mooring ball from the cockpit using that line and tie off the other end of the line to the stern cleat.  The boat will blow down until it's hanging off of the bow end of the line.  Then you have all of the time in the world to go forward and run a line off of the bow properly.

 

I do the same thing if I'm under motor or sail.  It is a lot easier than trying to pick up the mooring ball from the bow of the boat (which is about 1m above the water).



#60 gavinge

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 05:54 PM

great discussion! it was at real risk of turning into which anchor anarchy there for a second!

Alex that's a genius idea!

 

when anchoring in these situations (single handed) are you just dumping the anchor and rode (perhaps pre snubbed to a certain scope?) and heading back to the cockpit or paying it out, snubbing then heading back to the cockpit?



#61 jamhass

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 05:57 PM

There is a purpose - built mooring hook that attaches to your boat hook a
That nicely facilitates hooking to a mooring. As already said, once attached, it's easy to sort out later.

#62 Alex W

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:22 PM

great discussion! it was at real risk of turning into which anchor anarchy there for a second!

Alex that's a genius idea!

 

I can't take credit for it.

 

True story: the first time I approached a mooring I had a boat full of people and one of them said "How do we do this anyway?".  I said "I don't know, I think it involves a boat hook, I was going to figure it out when I see what a mooring looks like".  He searched on his phone and found an article that started with "Lots of people fall off of boats every year trying to catch the mooring ball with a boat hook from the bow, here is how you should do it" and described the method that I described above.  He said "I'm not falling in the water, so let's try it this way".

 

It works well for me and I haven't tried anything else.

 

When I'm anchoring singlehanded I do pre-cleat my rode at the right marker for the depth.  My anchor rode is marked every 30'.  I normally anchor in about 30' of water, so I'm normally cleating off around 150' on the rode.



#63 boat_alexandra

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 06:52 PM

 Now to hear from someone who is engine-free sailing a 27 foot boat and has been to 12 countries in the last 4 years..

 

It is no problem.  I usually drop the sails first so that the boat slows to 2-3 knots so the strain isn't crazy.. then drop it.

 

The harder part is getting the anchor up when it's really stuck.  For this I assume you don't have a windless (because these like engines are for weak people)

 

You can pull the anchor until it's vertical, then lock it off.  The boat momentum usually breaks it free.  If there are waves, these will break it out.

 

Sailing off anchor against a nearby lee shore singlehanded is not a trivial undertaking in a good breeze.

 

If there is a strong current or wind, so you cannot get the boat moving with momentum to break it free, you may need to use the sails.  In this case, raise the mainsail with a reef and sheet close.  The boat will sail up over the anchor automatically tacking.  Now you can raise the anchor with ease.

 

Trivial.



#64 armido

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 08:14 PM

While 'clipping' your line to the mooring negates the need to take the line forward, it requires unclipping when you're leaving.  How do you accomplish this, especially if alone?  It's a simple matter of slipping the line from the mooring ring or loop if you've previously threaded your line through. :ph34r:

Although the subject is anchoring under sail, there are times when one wants to pick up a mooring under sail.  For a solo sailor in particular, leaving the helm to go forward hopefully fast enough to grab a mooring with a boat hook or other means, is risky in almost any wind and or current.  Especially under sail.  Either a jib only or deeply reefed main is best when trying this because they can be lowered more quickly.  Even crewed boats can be a source of entertainment as a crewmember trys to grab a mooring from the bow.  Easier, especially if your boat has a low freeboard, is to sail (or motor if you have one)  toward the mooring so that the mooring will be abreast of and to leeward of the cockpit on approach.  Also, if there is significant current you must consider its effect on your speed and direction of travel..  Your objective, if you have a low freeboard is to slow sufficiently by bringing the boat into irons and near enough to reach down and grab the mooring.  Quickly run your line through the loop or ring and walk the mooring forward to the bow.  Cleat the Iine, and douse your sail.  In a worst case scenario you can quickly bend your line onto a cleat at the cockpit while you attend to other matters. If your freeboard is not low enough to grab the mooring, grab it with your favourite tool, typically a boat hook. Boats with structural "stuff in the way", like canopy frames and such may not be able to do any of this.  Another reason for keeping things simple... :ph34r:

 

An improvement to this technique which is the one I employ is to have a line from the bow cleat led back to the cockpit on the outside of the shrouds etc. It terminates in a large clip see below. As before get the mooring alongside the cockpit but now clip your line to the mooring and drop the mainsail.Now sort out the mooring line.

 

I have done this for real and it is MUCH easier than running forward to the bow negotiating the shrouds etc as you go. 



#65 Ishmael

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 09:49 PM



#66 gavinge

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 09:51 PM

I think the clipping is only for initial capture. you then swap it for a regular line that you could let run free as you leave.



#67 TQA

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 08:42 PM

Yup the clip is only to capture the ball.I go forward drop the main and from the bow pull up the mooring ball and run my regular mooring line through the ball.eye.

 

Someone mentioned instead of using the clip on a bow line which ensures that you finish up head to wind you thread the line through the ball and cleat it off at the stern. This will almost certainly result in being attached to the ball by the stern with the main still up. This is not a good situation to be in. In my case single handed on a 44 ft boat in a crowded mooring field like the one in the Saintes on a typical day with the trades blowing 10 to 20 knots. Having to turn the boat around before you can drop the mainsail would be a total PITA.



#68 armido

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Posted 18 July 2014 - 08:59 PM

All good provided the ball has either a tether with a looped end or small float to pick up, or the ball can be brought up.  It would be disconcerting to find the ball and chain are either too heavy, or the chain attaching the ball to the bottom is too short...  All is not lost of course provided you have a dingy. :blink:

Yup the clip is only to capture the ball.I go forward drop the main and from the bow pull up the mooring ball and run my regular mooring line through the ball.eye.

 

Someone mentioned instead of using the clip on a bow line which ensures that you finish up head to wind you thread the line through the ball and cleat it off at the stern. This will almost certainly result in being attached to the ball by the stern with the main still up. This is not a good situation to be in. In my case single handed on a 44 ft boat in a crowded mooring field like the one in the Saintes on a typical day with the trades blowing 10 to 20 knots. Having to turn the boat around before you can drop the mainsail would be a total PITA.



#69 waeshael

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 07:33 PM

For three years in the Caribbean we anchored off the stern, and still do now we are home. We drop the anchor onto a plot of sand with the dropper standing next to the helsman. You can do this under sail, and you have to be able to let the jib sheet go to slow the boat. The boat willl naturally continue downwind as the anchor digs. Then to leave you pull your boat back over the anchor, hoist it, and pull in on the jib sheet and the boat pulls away down wind under the self steering system while you clean up the anchor and stow the rode. 

Note: unless you are always in wind that keeps the anchor rode taught, the boat will at some point sail over the rode and catch on the rudder or keel - to prevent this I use a stiff bridal that keeps the anchor ball ten feet away from the boat no matter what the current and wind is doing. 

I have used this technique in near hurricane winds. There is never any wear on the gear, and the boat sits calmly with the bow down wind.

For details go here on my web site 

http://www.waeshael....ity/Anchor.html

 

Cautions: Even a small anchor will not bury unless it is dug in using the engine. A 25lb CQR needs a 600 lb pull to bury both flukes. If the winds are constant you will be okay, but if the wind change direction, or the current switches on you, you will need two anchors in opposite directions connected to a swivel and to a single rode coming to your anchor point. I have left my boat anchored this way for months.



#70 Estar

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Posted 12 August 2014 - 11:08 PM

Anchoring under sail . . . . we do it using both techniques (1) beat in under mainsail alone, turn up and luff to the spot you want, drop anchor and then main sail, (2) run slowly downwind toward the spot you want to anchor, drop anchor/chain to expected depth minus 5' before you get there, then dump lots of chain as you pass over the spot, continue downwind a bit and then turn just before you get to the end of the chain.  Both work fine . . . you should know how to do both.  #1 tends to be a bit easier to recover from if you screw up the anchor placement or approach. But some boats will not go upwind or tack well under main alone (Hawk will, but Silk would not) in which case #2 is obviously prefered.

 

It's useful to have a second anchor, with a long rode, you can dinghy out, if you do screw up a little.  You can use it to kedge you back to where you wanted to be.

 

As to 'new gen anchors' . . . . Ultra, Spade, supreme, rocna, boss, mantus . . . .. I have used three of those, but have a Manson Ray on my bow now.



#71 TQA

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Posted 13 August 2014 - 07:33 PM

All good provided the ball has either a tether with a looped end or small float to pick up, or the ball can be brought up.  It would be disconcerting to find the ball and chain are either too heavy, or the chain attaching the ball to the bottom is too short...  All is not lost of course provided you have a dingy. :blink:

Yup the clip is only to capture the ball.I go forward drop the main and from the bow pull up the mooring ball and run my regular mooring line through the ball.eye.

 

Someone mentioned instead of using the clip on a bow line which ensures that you finish up head to wind you thread the line through the ball and cleat it off at the stern. This will almost certainly result in being attached to the ball by the stern with the main still up. This is not a good situation to be in. In my case single handed on a 44 ft boat in a crowded mooring field like the one in the Saintes on a typical day with the trades blowing 10 to 20 knots. Having to turn the boat around before you can drop the mainsail would be a total PITA.

 Yup this is the situation in the Saintes on at least 1/2 the mooring balls. It is not possible to  lift them up to deck level, It is quite entertaining to watch people try.

 

I have my line clipped to the ball and put it on the capstan side of my windlass.and winch us up to the ball. If the ball does not come up to deck level I have used the dink but I have also had crew who were excellent swimmers jump over with the line in their teeth, thread it through and lobbed the end back up to the fearless and dry skipper.



#72 Estar

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 12:51 PM

regarding mooring buoys with no line attached . . . . the brits use a simple technique that works really well . . . .take about a 30' line (sinking line like nylon or dacron not floating), cleat each end to either side of the bow (lead outside/in front of the headstay), hold a coil in either hand, get up near the buoy, throw the line (with both hands) over past the buoy.  The line will sink around/under the buoy and catch and hold.  When I first learned this I thought it would hold only with can shaped buoys (common in scotland) and pop out of ball buoys, but I tested it (with reverse engine power) and at holds well even with round buoys.  This is a very common technique in the UK but I have never seen it taught or mentioned by American sailors.  This is a great technique for single handers.  Once you are all settled you can tie a line to the buoy shackle/ring by dinghy if you want to.

 

A second technique, for those with swim platforms, is to reverse up (upwind) to the buoy.  The boat will usually then sit quite quietly with the bow pointing down wind while someone on the swim platform ties a line to the buoy.  I cleat a line off at the bow and bring it around (outside all the shrouds!) back to the swim platform to do this






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