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Team NZ not part of Joint Statement


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#1 Paperinick

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:58 PM

Anybody know why TNZ did not join the joint statement from the teams released earlier today?

 

Article: http://benainslierac...om/2014/07/660/

or: http://www.americasc...are-there-.html



#2 Jazz Freak

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:15 PM

Grumpy?

#3 Guitar

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:49 PM

Not invited?



#4 Rennmaus

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 09:59 PM

Not interested?

#5 ~Stingray~

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:07 PM

The Euro teams simply 'forgot' to ask them?

#6 floater

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:10 PM

Whoops.

#7 ~Stingray~

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:13 PM

Nobody cared?

They were focussed on cost-cutting and didn't want to make the long distance call?

They called and asked but were told to fuck off because it was church time?

ETNZ started to answer but their phone plan, ahem, ran out of time?

:)

#8 Scarecrow

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:28 PM

There is no way grumpy would ever sign a letter saying "all's good" as it would make any bitching and moaning he did later hard to support.

#9 ~Stingray~

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:30 PM

Grumpy was out of town relaxing in Bermuda?

Already had a joint?

#10 Sailbydate

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 12:44 AM

Busy preparing the DoG Challenge?



#11 PeterHuston

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 12:45 AM

Busy preparing the DoG Challenge?

 

I hope so.  Grumpy should be on one of those big Emirates planes to SFO right now, knocking on GGYC's front door asap.



#12 ~Stingray~

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 12:53 AM

PH, you are loud mouthing again about your latest subject, and apparently this latest obsession of yours is RC.

if you had any cred at all and were somehow in RC's position with a hotline to LE and could therefore call the shots (lol) then ~precisely~ what Protocol changes would you submit to the Challs?

Problems, Causes, Consequences, and Solutions are normally only interesting if good Solutions to the perceived Problems are well defined.

Let's hear it..

#13 aldo

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 12:54 AM

No holds  barred, unlimited budget battle against Daddy L. Warbucks.

I'd love to see it and I'd especially love to hear Grumpy spin the need for it to the NZ public and Government.



#14 PeterHuston

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 01:01 AM

PH, you are loud mouthing again about your latest subject, and apparently this latest obsession of yours is RC.

if you were RC and could call the shots (lol) then ~precisely~ what Protocol changes would you submit to the Challs?

Problems, Causes, Consequences, and Solutions are normally only interesting if good Solutions to the perceived Problems are well defined. Let's hear it..

 

First thing, I'd go to the challengers and say, "ok, you want SFO.  This is what it is going to cost to hold the event there if we do X. If we do X+ add that, and then +++.  So, what sort of value do you want out of SFO?  Shoreside stuff?  Where?  How long?  Bases?  ect...  OK...so now we know the cost.  Here's the price. Show me your ability to split the bill now evenly, and we will do it here".

 

Next....TV.  Do we want broadcast or webcast?  How are we going to split production costs?  How are we going to split revenue share?  How about this...Production of X costs Y.  ACEA gets all revenue until costs are met, then we split, 50% to ACEA, you guys split the rest.

 

Simple...stuff like that.

 

Right now, all Russell is saying is "The world is mine. If you want to play, show up with a boat, otherwise, fuck you on everything else".

 

God I hope San Diego pulls the plug on their bid and fucks Russell's negotiating position with Bermuduh.



#15 scarecow

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 01:30 AM

What I'd do is give them back the challenger selection series. It was never the defender/EA's to begin with. Let them slice and dice the television/web coverage as they please because I think those rights are very important to the potential sponsors of the challenging clubs.

 

From a philosophical point of view, the css is none of GGYC's business.



#16 PeterHuston

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 01:34 AM

What I'd do is give them back the challenger selection series. It was never the defender/EA's to begin with. Let them slice and dice the television/web coverage as they please because I think those rights are very important to the potential sponsors of the challenging clubs.

 

From a philosophical point of view, the css is none of GGYC's business.

 

And I agree with that too, except to the extent, they ought to say "we aren't coming unless we get to determine our own fate, in every respect".



#17 Sailbydate

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 01:44 AM

What I'd do is give them back the challenger selection series. It was never the defender/EA's to begin with. Let them slice and dice the television/web coverage as they please because I think those rights are very important to the potential sponsors of the challenging clubs.

 

From a philosophical point of view, the css is none of GGYC's business.

That is a very good suggestion. But RC/LE want to control the AC as 'commercially sustainable', so they'll 'give away' fuck all. Unless you're paying, you're not coming to the party, sunshine - including venues.



#18 CheekyMonkey

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 01:46 AM

I agree.  The Defender should have hands off of the CSS.

 

 

Ultimately, every team is out for their own self-interest, and will only cooperate if it helps achieve that in some way.  That was amply illustrated during the rules bickering during AC34.

 

TNZ could indeed have something up their sleeve, or their own ideas.  Who knows?

 

If I was one of teams in the "group," why would I want to make it easier for the team that would almost certainly be the challenger favorite in the next AC as well?

 

Artemis had the budget, but couldn't run a campaign.

 

LR got a late start, granted, but could only mount a feeble challenge even after being given a boat to help catch up.

 

The others are unknowns at best, and, starting from scratch, face even greater odds.

 

Given a choice, are the geeks going to invite the quarterback to their party, and welcome him with open arms?  Would you introduce your prettier/handsomer friend to the person you're pursuiing?

 

 

The wait now is for the smoke signals to come from NZ.



#19 bluesea

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:27 AM

LR got a late start, granted, but could only mount a feeble challenge even after being given a boat to help catch up.

 

 

 

They were given a boat to catch up this cycle, not last. It wasn't even a challenge other than in the minds of advertisers and sports fans. 



#20 scarecow

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:27 AM

I wouldn't read too much into the fact the statement does not include Emirates Team New Zealand.

 

The language in the statement is interesting. They say that, following the demise of HIYC, they are looking to establish a constant dialogue with Oracle Team USA and are intent on preserving the principal of friendly competition between nations.

 

They talk about 'active cooperation' not just 'cooperation' with the defender in order to 'adapt' not 'adopt' the rules and outline of the America’s Cup World Series calendar, the format of the challenger selection series and the America’s Cup finals

 

It sounds to me like they are looking to make some fairly significant changes to the way the mutual consent clause is discharged.



#21 Sailbydate

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:03 AM

What the Euros need to understand is that RC/LE will play along because, at the moment, it suits them. 

 

We all know what happens when you cosy up to a crocodile, right? Ask IM. He'll no doubt agree you get bit.



#22 scarecow

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:12 AM

What the Euros need to understand is that RC/LE will play along because, at the moment, it suits them. 

 

We all know what happens when you cosy up to a crocodile, right? Ask IM. He'll no doubt agree you get bit.

I don't know if the tones and expression of enthusiasm to cooperate are completely genuine, or are more diplomatic in their nature. The reason being that it would not be helpful to the challengers' union cause further down the track if they had appeared to be obstructive and confrontational in the early days.



#23 Rennmaus

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:16 AM

It's pretty cool that ETNZ is not among the Euro bunch. Do your own thing, get all your ducks in a row and talk when/if there's something to talk about.
Laid back and self confident attitude.

See, you can also spin it this way, haha.

#24 Paperinick

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:19 AM

ETNZ to enter by August 8

 

http://www.radiospor...rica-s-cup-tale



#25 Jazz Freak

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:01 AM

It's pretty cool that ETNZ is not among the Euro bunch. Do your own thing, get all your ducks in a row and talk when/if there's something to talk about.
Laid back and self confident attitude.

See, you can also spin it this way, haha.


True, them being the only challenging trustee ;-)

#26 dogwatch

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:12 AM

Ex-trustee.



#27 ~HHN92~

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 01:33 PM

Sometimes it may be best to keep your mouth shut and stick to taking care of business. If TNZ is entering, and there is nothing they can do at this time until things become clearer, then why say anything?



#28 Jazz Freak

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:13 PM

True, they're holding out for the venue announcement before saying anything

#29 thetruth

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:13 AM

I think it's great we have not heard from Dalton. Certainly better this way then when he does open his mouth. You will see less and less of him in the press I think........



#30 ~Stingray~

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:23 AM

One report said that the response from someone at ETNZ was a big "so what" and that's fine.

When the right time comes GD will weigh in with his angle again, for certain. Still the best interview around.

#31 sunseeker

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:25 AM

Does anyone really believe a single word of that press release anyway?

#32 Sailbydate

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 02:25 AM

Does anyone really believe a single word of that press release anyway?

With a bit of luck, RC does.



#33 maxmini

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 03:28 AM

Grant is considering dropping the AC altogether.

 

After reading the small print in the latest protocol and seeing that do to the global warming situation all " ring of fire " christening ceremonies are no longer allowed he just doesn't see the point any more.



#34 david r

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 03:36 AM

possible answer to the OP;  They are acting as poodles to keep the story going for purposes of influencing consensus opinion and future marketing of the AC world series.

They could of said we aren't going to enter if the AC isn't held in the SF bay.



#35 SW Sailor

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:01 AM

Grant is considering dropping the AC altogether.

 

After reading the small print in the latest protocol and seeing that do to the global warming situation all " ring of fire " christening ceremonies are no longer allowed he just doesn't see the point any more.

Their is no doubt that the ring of fire is what brought ET to within one single race of snatching the cup away from big bad Larry. nav in his infinite wisdom will surely attest to this.

 

I also have no doubt nav will be along any second to confirm global warming is only a conspiracy theory by LE to prevent grumpy from an AC62 ring of fire launching ET into the throws of walking off with AC35. At least they can still have the homeless people dancing on the docks and the kiddies present to observe the festivities.

 

It must be terrible to know the whole world is always working against you. I can't imagine.

 

nav may wind up in a rubber room before this is over, especially if the finals are in Bermuda.

 

Not the first time it's happened - we haven't heard from nobby for a few years now. A certain movie with Sharon Stone comes to mind.



#36 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:07 PM

It must be terrible to know the whole world is always working against you.

Oh, irony ! :lol:



#37 pjh

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:19 PM

Team New Zealand "uninvited" from challengers meeting in London.

http://www.independe...on-9631618.html

#38 PeterHuston

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:33 PM

Team New Zealand "uninvited" from challengers meeting in London.

http://www.independe...on-9631618.html

 

One can only hope that RNZYS invites GGYC to a date in the NY Supreme Court for failure to negotiate in good faith.



#39 Sailbydate

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:33 PM

Team New Zealand "uninvited" from challengers meeting in London.

http://www.independe...on-9631618.html

Oh that's a shame. Never mind. We've been told to fuck off in the AC before. So what.



#40 SW Sailor

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:38 PM

Team New Zealand "uninvited" from challengers meeting in London.

http://www.independe...on-9631618.html

 

One can only hope that RNZYS invites GGYC to a date in the NY Supreme Court for failure to negotiate in good faith.

 

Exactly what obligation, legal or other otherwise, does GGYC have to negotiate with a challenger ?

 

You're beginning to sound like MSP and TC with all the legal bullshit. This is a kiwi issue as much as anything - just a higher level follow-on to the heartwarming attitude extended to RC at the fundraiser charity dinner for the disabled he was nice enough to support when grumpy ambushed him in front of a roomful of his countrymates.



#41 aldo

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:39 PM

Grumpy insisted on holding the Cup during the meeting.



#42 ~Stingray~

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:39 PM

Team New Zealand "uninvited" from challengers meeting in London.

http://www.independe...on-9631618.html

Yes, a little curious.

After Aug 8 if there are enough Challs signed into this Challenge to make it a multi-Chall event then the meetings will no longer be informal by-invite meetings. By the Prot attendance will be required, nobody can get, as apparently ETNZ put it, "uninvited."

#43 SW Sailor

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:44 PM

Team New Zealand "uninvited" from challengers meeting in London.

http://www.independe...on-9631618.html

 

Read elsewhere that an invitation may have been extended to Barker, so the term "we" may not be accurate.



#44 aldo

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:45 PM

The best part is, Grumpy can't say shit.

 

Best he can do is keep it lubed so it doesn't bleed.



#45 Sailbydate

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:48 PM

Team New Zealand "uninvited" from challengers meeting in London.

http://www.independe...on-9631618.html

 

Read elsewhere that an invitation may have been extended to Barker, so the term "we" may not be accurate.

Or indeed "uninvited" may not be accurate. But it does suggest that any invitation had been withdrawn, no?



#46 Jazz Freak

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:51 PM

Team New Zealand "uninvited" from challengers meeting in London.

http://www.independe...on-9631618.html


Shame Stuart can't get his facts straight about when BA was tune up for Barker..

#47 SW Sailor

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:58 PM

 

Team New Zealand "uninvited" from challengers meeting in London.

http://www.independe...on-9631618.html

 

Read elsewhere that an invitation may have been extended to Barker, so the term "we" may not be accurate.

Or indeed "uninvited" may not be accurate. But it does suggest that any invitation had been withdrawn, no?

 

Hard to determine the exact context of what may have been said. The invitation may have been extended only to Barker and they may have wanted to send someone else at which point the invitation was withdrawn. grumpy did burn a few bridges last go around.



#48 PeterHuston

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:03 AM

 

Team New Zealand "uninvited" from challengers meeting in London.

http://www.independe...on-9631618.html

 

One can only hope that RNZYS invites GGYC to a date in the NY Supreme Court for failure to negotiate in good faith.

 

Exactly what obligation, legal or other otherwise, does GGYC have to negotiate with a challenger ?

 

You're beginning to sound like MSP and TC with all the legal bullshit. This is a kiwi issue as much as anything - just a higher level follow-on to the heartwarming attitude extended to RC at the charity dinner for the disabled he was nice enough to support.

 

Who is even the Challenger now?  Does the Protocol really matter?  Can GGYC just arbitrarily say that the challenge is valid for another 90 days after HIYC says they are done?  

 

I'm sure not going to get into it in a big way, I am finding this whole thing amusing on a level of sick humor actually.  It is absurd what Russell is doing.  Going to Bermuda is about lowing HIS costs of operation.  ACEA won't need sponsors, not if Bermuda is really going to fork over $40 million, as is the rumor.  Couple that with something close to $0 income tax, and it makes abundant sense for Coutts to take the Cup to Bermuda. He gets to run his regatta for free, gets a bigger payday for himself by not having to pay US and CA taxes, and puts the hurt on the Challengers by going to a less attractive venue for sponsorship purposes.  Dragging out the announcement of the venue for months more puts the challenges who need sponsor funding that much further behind the 8 ball.  No major company is even going to have a serious discussion about serious money - meaning $10 million in cash, or more - until the venue and dates are known.  So, those decisions won't happen for almost another year.  Anyone who thinks sponsors are going to start writing checks the day after the venue is announced has never sold major corporate sponsorship.

 

For a guy who claims to be wanting to create a more commercial and sustainable event, Coutts is behaving exactly like someone who is just trying to fuck over the Challengers.

 

I am hardly a Grumpy fan, but, in fairness, the guy knows how to raise corporate money.  Far better than Coutts does. You'd think the other challenges who need sponsors would benefit from having Grumpy in the room.

 

I'm just saying that Coutts uninviting ETNZ is leaving him open to a major lawsuit.  It is dumb beyond belief.  

 

Christ, everyone complained about Vincenzo and then HIYC being poodles, now Coutts has four poodles all trying to hump his leg.  Where's the Alinghi cartoonist when you need him.



#49 jhc

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:13 AM

This meeting should be know as the "Tragedy of the commons" The self interest of the involved parties will kill off the host, the ac, unless there is a change in attitude.

Alameda (sf bay) should be on the agenda.

The cor should be decided by vote.

A completely new protocol should be put forward.

Rc should resign.



#50 aldo

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:16 AM

No one is better at finding money for AC campaigns than RC.

 

He's so good, it finds him.



#51 SW Sailor

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:41 AM

 

 

Team New Zealand "uninvited" from challengers meeting in London.

http://www.independe...on-9631618.html

 

One can only hope that RNZYS invites GGYC to a date in the NY Supreme Court for failure to negotiate in good faith.

 

Exactly what obligation, legal or other otherwise, does GGYC have to negotiate with a challenger ?

 

You're beginning to sound like MSP and TC with all the legal bullshit. This is a kiwi issue as much as anything - just a higher level follow-on to the heartwarming attitude extended to RC at the charity dinner for the disabled he was nice enough to support.

 

Who is even the Challenger now?  Does the Protocol really matter?  Can GGYC just arbitrarily say that the challenge is valid for another 90 days after HIYC says they are done?  

 

I'm sure not going to get into it in a big way, I am finding this whole thing amusing on a level of sick humor actually.  It is absurd what Russell is doing.  Going to Bermuda is about lowing HIS costs of operation.  ACEA won't need sponsors, not if Bermuda is really going to fork over $40 million, as is the rumor.  Couple that with something close to $0 income tax, and it makes abundant sense for Coutts to take the Cup to Bermuda. He gets to run his regatta for free, gets a bigger payday for himself by not having to pay US and CA taxes, and puts the hurt on the Challengers by going to a less attractive venue for sponsorship purposes.  Dragging out the announcement of the venue for months more puts the challenges who need sponsor funding that much further behind the 8 ball.  No major company is even going to have a serious discussion about serious money - meaning $10 million in cash, or more - until the venue and dates are known.  So, those decisions won't happen for almost another year.  Anyone who thinks sponsors are going to start writing checks the day after the venue is announced has never sold major corporate sponsorship.

 

For a guy who claims to be wanting to create a more commercial and sustainable event, Coutts is behaving exactly like someone who is just trying to fuck over the Challengers.

 

I am hardly a Grumpy fan, but, in fairness, the guy knows how to raise corporate money.  Far better than Coutts does. You'd think the other challenges who need sponsors would benefit from having Grumpy in the room.

 

I'm just saying that Coutts uninviting ETNZ is leaving him open to a major lawsuit.  It is dumb beyond belief.  

 

Christ, everyone complained about Vincenzo and then HIYC being poodles, now Coutts has four poodles all trying to hump his leg.  Where's the Alinghi cartoonist when you need him.

 

It's clear if LR and Artemis have submitted entries that RNZYS is not the CoR, just a challenger, so the question remains, what obligation, legal or otherwise does GGYC have to negotiate with a challenger ?

 

Absolutely none.

 

One could also argue that negotiating with a challenger circumvents the negotiation process with the CoR. Still little basis for a trip to the NYSC unless it seriously undermined the interests of the CoR.

 

The 90 days is in the existing protocol put in place by MC and stands, simple as that.

 

I'm beginning to think MSP has hacked your account.



#52 PeterHuston

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:08 AM

It's clear if LR and Artemis have submitted entries that RNZYS is not the CoR, just a challenger, so the question remains, what obligation, legal or otherwise does GGYC have to negotiate with a challenger ?

 

Absolutely none.

 

One could also argue that negotiating with a challenger circumvents the negotiation process with the CoR. Still little basis for a trip to the NYSC unless it seriously undermined the interests of the CoR.

 

The 90 days is in the existing protocol put in place by MC and stands, simple as that.

 

I'm beginning to think MSP has hacked your account.

 

I'm not saying I'm right or your wrong, all I'm saying is that some challenger who just wanted to fuck with Russell could easily file in NYSC and challenge the protocol.

 

In particular, RNZYS might have a field day with this.

 

Michael Fay has experience with this, and someone sure funded ADM on a much lesser case.

 

If you were a challenger, its the old FUD aspect of the program.

 

Honestly, I'm surprised Erne$to hasn't done it already.

 

And remember this about the current protocol:  It was probably written by a Sam Hollis who is perhaps just the new Hamish Ross.  We know how that ended up.



#53 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:13 AM

at a bunch of places
--
SAN DIEGO (AP) After a week of bruising publicity, four teams expected to challenge for the America's Cup will meet with representatives of defending champion Oracle Team USA in London on Tuesday to discuss details of the next regatta.

Emirates Team New Zealand won't be attending, just as it didn't join in a statement Friday expressing support for the event.

Russell Coutts, CEO of Oracle Team USA, says the America's Cup Event Authority is working with the teams "to further define an event based on the published protocol."

Coutts says when he heard from another team that the Kiwis didn't want to want to proceed on that basis, "I rang them up and said, 'It's best that you not come.'"

Teams from Britain, Italy, Sweden and France will attend.

#54 SW Sailor

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:22 AM

at a bunch of places
--
SAN DIEGO (AP) After a week of bruising publicity, four teams expected to challenge for the America's Cup will meet with representatives of defending champion Oracle Team USA in London on Tuesday to discuss details of the next regatta.

Emirates Team New Zealand won't be attending, just as it didn't join in a statement Friday expressing support for the event.

Russell Coutts, CEO of Oracle Team USA, says the America's Cup Event Authority is working with the teams "to further define an event based on the published protocol."

Coutts says when he heard from another team that the Kiwis didn't want to want to proceed on that basis, "I rang them up and said, 'It's best that you not come.'"

Teams from Britain, Italy, Sweden and France will attend.

 

Sounds like they dis-invited themselves.

 

The meeting is probably better off to leave family squabbles out given the massive precedent established in AC34.



#55 SW Sailor

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:29 AM

It's clear if LR and Artemis have submitted entries that RNZYS is not the CoR, just a challenger, so the question remains, what obligation, legal or otherwise does GGYC have to negotiate with a challenger ?

 

Absolutely none.

 

One could also argue that negotiating with a challenger circumvents the negotiation process with the CoR. Still little basis for a trip to the NYSC unless it seriously undermined the interests of the CoR.

 

The 90 days is in the existing protocol put in place by MC and stands, simple as that.

 

I'm beginning to think MSP has hacked your account.

 

I'm not saying I'm right or your wrong, all I'm saying is that some challenger who just wanted to fuck with Russell could easily file in NYSC and challenge the protocol.

 

In particular, RNZYS might have a field day with this.

 

 

Could also be a big waste of time and money.



#56 Sailbydate

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:22 AM

"Emirates Team New Zealand was a notable absentee from the press release - a move that has angered head of the America's Cup Events Authority, Russell Coutts."

 

http://www.nzherald....jectid=11300328

 

So how's this scenario? TNZ refuses to sign LR's obsequious press release for RC - so he gets on the phone and tells TNZ not to bother turning up in London. 

 

AC35 is already riveting and there's not even a boat race in sight. 



#57 meanermachine

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:36 AM

"Emirates Team New Zealand was a notable absentee from the press release - a move that has angered head of the America's Cup Events Authority, Russell Coutts."

 

http://www.nzherald....jectid=11300328

 

So how's this scenario? TNZ refuses to sign LR's obsequious press release for RC - so he gets on the phone and tells TNZ not to bother turning up in London. 

 

AC35 is already riveting and there's not even a boat race in sight. 

 

this is a great quote

 

Coutts told the Associated Press the Defender wants to work with the teams "to further define an event based on the published protocol"and when he heard from another team that the Kiwis didn't want to want to proceed on that basis, "I rang them up and said, 'It's best that you not come.'"

 

what a douche, man.

 

I now have a mental image of grumpy, Shoe and DB wearing leather jackets and smoking, in their new role as AC rebels / bad boys.... cartoon anyone?

 

EDIT:



#58 pjh

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:40 AM

Some teams are poodles. Some are pit bulls.

#59 scarecow

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:41 AM

at a bunch of places
--
SAN DIEGO (AP) After a week of bruising publicity, four teams expected to challenge for the America's Cup will meet with representatives of defending champion Oracle Team USA in London on Tuesday to discuss details of the next regatta.

Emirates Team New Zealand won't be attending, just as it didn't join in a statement Friday expressing support for the event.

Russell Coutts, CEO of Oracle Team USA, says the America's Cup Event Authority is working with the teams "to further define an event based on the published protocol."

Coutts says when he heard from another team that the Kiwis didn't want to want to proceed on that basis, "I rang them up and said, 'It's best that you not come.'"

Teams from Britain, Italy, Sweden and France will attend.

 

Sounds like they dis-invited themselves.

 

The meeting is probably better off to leave family squabbles out given the massive precedent established in AC34.

 

Coutts says when he heard from another team that the Kiwis didn't want to want to proceed on that basis, "I rang them up and said, 'It's best that you not come.'"

 

Seriously? Hearsay? What an amateur.



#60 dogwatch

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:44 AM



Emirates Team New Zealand won't be attending, just as it didn't join in a statement Friday expressing support for the event.

Russell Coutts, CEO of Oracle Team USA, says the America's Cup Event Authority is working with the teams "to further define an event based on the published protocol."

Coutts says when he heard from another team that the Kiwis didn't want to want to proceed on that basis, "I rang them up and said, 'It's best that you not come.'"
 

 

 

I spent some time working with an organisation that wouldn't engage with contrarian opinions.  Not that much time, because they went broke.



#61 sclarke

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:52 AM

It will be imteresting to see what happens. The question is...what if anything does Russell and Larry have over these guys to suddenly make them quit talking tough? I mean, Luna Rossa were the first and the loudest to protest over the prosesses used in the last cycle (Were they only doing this to back ETNZ's view) Patrizio and Max had no problems voicing their displeasure with Russell and ACEA/ ACRM. Recently Artemis voiced displeasure over split venues, now all that is forgotten and everyone's kissed and made up? What has suddenly made everyone fall into line and back Russell's vision?? I mean its pretty pointless given the fact that if the Cup changes hands this time around the vision will undoubtedly be different...or will it? Maybe Russell's vision is to eliminate the AC from being a defender venue race in the future and to be a more global racing schedule of challenger series races qualifiers, having the Cup race held at a venue of ACEA's choosing with very expensive entry fees.

That very expensive initial entry fee would be offset by the fact that the AC would be run by ACEA/ ACRM, much like the ACWS, raced annually in the AC62's. With The match set at a later date.

All these countries then get Cup qualifier races guaranteed to them every year, regardless of who wins the Cup.

Everyone knows if ETNZ wins the Cup, the match and its build up races will be in Auckland, meaning Teams will have to move their operations to New Zealand at their own cost. Maybe the challengers are thinking more of the implications if ETNZ wins the Cup?? Very interesting.



#62 Bill R

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:54 AM

This time round is rapidly turning into a farce.  Why would any one enter?  The Challenger has quit, no one seems to know who the next challenger is, and a meeting is being held with out all the possible competitors.

 

If I were a sponsor I don't think I would be releasing any funds to a team, when there are too many unknowns.  

 

In my humble opinion the possible challengers should have a meeting and tell oracle to sort there shit out or it ain't happening. 



#63 Trafficker

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:18 AM

 

at a bunch of places
--
SAN DIEGO (AP) After a week of bruising publicity, four teams expected to challenge for the America's Cup will meet with representatives of defending champion Oracle Team USA in London on Tuesday to discuss details of the next regatta.

Emirates Team New Zealand won't be attending, just as it didn't join in a statement Friday expressing support for the event.

Russell Coutts, CEO of Oracle Team USA, says the America's Cup Event Authority is working with the teams "to further define an event based on the published protocol."

Coutts says when he heard from another team that the Kiwis didn't want to want to proceed on that basis, "I rang them up and said, 'It's best that you not come.'"

Teams from Britain, Italy, Sweden and France will attend.

 

Sounds like they dis-invited themselves.

 

The meeting is probably better off to leave family squabbles out given the massive precedent established in AC34.

 

Coutts says when he heard from another team that the Kiwis didn't want to want to proceed on that basis, "I rang them up and said, 'It's best that you not come.'"

 

Seriously? Hearsay? What an amateur.

RC doesn't seem able to 'rise above' does he!  I recall his facebook comments in a similar vein.

 

If he didn't want an acrimonious relationship with a challenger this cycle, why behave in this fashion?  Turn the other cheek, if they are not COR then they can't demand anything anyway.

 

I always thought JS's talk at the AC34 final that they 'wanted to kill each other' was a load of bollocks.  Turns out this time OTUSA wants to kill ETNZ before a boat is built, and ETNZ are more than happy playing that game too.  Everyone loves someone to hate, and it gives us something to talk about until 2017...  



#64 dogwatch

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:31 AM

Why would any one enter?

 

What else are they going to do? Take up that long-deferred career in the "real world"?



#65 ezyb

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:48 PM

I suspect this is a deliberate move to help them win over the NZ taxpayers.  They decline to co-sign the letter knowing it will annoy Coutts who is guaranteed to act like a petulant child.  Result?  An Us vs Them storyline for ETNZ to sell to the NZ public and the money flows ...



#66 PeterHuston

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:02 PM

 

It's clear if LR and Artemis have submitted entries that RNZYS is not the CoR, just a challenger, so the question remains, what obligation, legal or otherwise does GGYC have to negotiate with a challenger ?

 

Absolutely none.

 

One could also argue that negotiating with a challenger circumvents the negotiation process with the CoR. Still little basis for a trip to the NYSC unless it seriously undermined the interests of the CoR.

 

The 90 days is in the existing protocol put in place by MC and stands, simple as that.

 

I'm beginning to think MSP has hacked your account.

 

I'm not saying I'm right or your wrong, all I'm saying is that some challenger who just wanted to fuck with Russell could easily file in NYSC and challenge the protocol.

 

In particular, RNZYS might have a field day with this.

 

 

Could also be a big waste of time and money.

 

 

Somebody got value out of fronting all that cash for ADM's lawyers.



#67 aldo

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:17 PM


 


It's clear if LR and Artemis have submitted entries that RNZYS is not the CoR, just a challenger, so the question remains, what obligation, legal or otherwise does GGYC have to negotiate with a challenger ?
 
Absolutely none.
 
One could also argue that negotiating with a challenger circumvents the negotiation process with the CoR. Still little basis for a trip to the NYSC unless it seriously undermined the interests of the CoR.
 
The 90 days is in the existing protocol put in place by MC and stands, simple as that.
 
I'm beginning to think MSP has hacked your account.

 
I'm not saying I'm right or your wrong, all I'm saying is that some challenger who just wanted to fuck with Russell could easily file in NYSC and challenge the protocol.
 
In particular, RNZYS might have a field day with this.
 
 
Could also be a big waste of time and money.
 
 
Somebody got value out of fronting all that cash for ADM's lawyers.

What value was that?

#68 PeterHuston

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 01:35 PM

 

 
Somebody got value out of fronting all that cash for ADM's lawyers.

What value was that?

 

No one pays money unless they derive value for the whatever it is they are buying.  

 

Impossible to know the value for the payee of ADM until we know who that is.

 

Perhaps Lynn F could tell us.



#69 SW Sailor

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 03:37 PM

 

 

 
Somebody got value out of fronting all that cash for ADM's lawyers.

What value was that?

 

No one pays money unless they derive value for the whatever it is they are buying.  

 

Impossible to know the value for the payee of ADM until we know who that is.

 

Perhaps Lynn F could tell us.

 

Not too many people would get value from revenge in an expensive law suit against LE they could never win. 



#70 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 04:19 PM

http://sailinganarch...on-not-calling/



#71 Xlot

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 04:47 PM


^

Clean, on a good day ..

#72 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:13 PM

Straight PH's keyboard, surely.

PH, when I asked what your constructive solution was for the business problem you perceive that RC is creating, you went along the lines of "make the Challs pay for the event."

That seems a reasonable idea, but only to an extent. Yes, there is extra value to their sponsors gained by a good venue, good promotion, good racing, good TV etc. And perhaps some of the cost to create those things should therefore be shared by the beneficiaries.

But can you imagine the response from Challs if it were asked, or worse demanded, of them?

There may not be much to that solution. Got any others?

#73 pogen

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:33 PM

http://sailinganarch...on-not-calling/

 

Nice.



#74 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:45 PM

With ETNZ, arguably the most sponsor-dependent team along with presumably BAR, seemingly sidelined at least for this one last meeting before all entered Challs will get accepted and will have meetings and votings rights, then:

I wonder what if any implications there might be resulting from RC having two billionaire-backed teams in the meeting on Tuesday, who may think along some of the same lines as LE? Particularly so since one of the two will be the next CoR?

#75 Trafficker

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:45 PM

RC throws his toys around the cot (re-post from the 'Does anyone here support Coutts?' thread) :

https://www.facebook...ellcouttssailor



#76 Trafficker

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:47 PM

Nothing new here:

http://www.nzherald....jectid=11300457



#77 Sailbydate

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:27 PM

I suspect this is a deliberate move to help them win over the NZ taxpayers.  They decline to co-sign the letter knowing it will annoy Coutts who is guaranteed to act like a petulant child.  Result?  An Us vs Them storyline for ETNZ to sell to the NZ public and the money flows ...

Damn clever strategy, if accurate.



#78 edouard

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:34 PM

With ETNZ, arguably the most sponsor-dependent team along with presumably BAR, seemingly sidelined at least for this one last meeting before all entered Challs will get accepted and will have meetings and votings rights, then:

I wonder what if any implications there might be resulting from RC having two billionaire-backed teams in the meeting on Tuesday, who may think along some of the same lines as LE? Particularly so since one of the two will be the next CoR?

 

Actually, Team France is the most sponsor dependent team. Franck Cammas didn't get any government cash to keep his team together or setup his base, nor does he have a pool of wealthy countrymen ready to fill in for the day to day expenses.

 

As for the "implications there might be resulting from RC having two billionaire-backed teams in the meeting on Tuesday", nothing more than what could be expected from organizers seeking a   "sustainable event" with "quality rather than quantity"  :lol: 



#79 Sailbydate

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:42 PM

With ETNZ, arguably the most sponsor-dependent team along with presumably BAR, seemingly sidelined at least for this one last meeting before all entered Challs will get accepted and will have meetings and votings rights, then:

I wonder what if any implications there might be resulting from RC having two billionaire-backed teams in the meeting on Tuesday, who may think along some of the same lines as LE? Particularly so since one of the two will be the next CoR?

 

Actually, Team France is the most sponsor dependent team. Franck Cammas didn't get any government cash to keep his team together or setup his base, nor does he have a pool of wealthy countrymen ready to fill in for the day to day expenses.

 

As for the "implications there might be resulting from RC having two billionaire-backed teams in the meeting on Tuesday", nothing more than what could be expected from organizers seeking a   "sustainable event" with "quality rather than quantity"  :lol:

Not quite. Following AC34, FC didn't HAVE a team to protect against predation. 



#80 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:57 PM



With ETNZ, arguably the most sponsor-dependent team along with presumably BAR, seemingly sidelined at least for this one last meeting before all entered Challs will get accepted and will have meetings and votings rights, then:

I wonder what if any implications there might be resulting from RC having two billionaire-backed teams in the meeting on Tuesday, who may think along some of the same lines as LE? Particularly so since one of the two will be the next CoR?

 
Actually, Team France is the most sponsor dependent team. Franck Cammas didn't get any government cash to keep his team together or setup his base, nor does he have a pool of wealthy countrymen ready to fill in for the day to day expenses.
 
As for the "implications there might be resulting from RC having two billionaire-backed teams in the meeting on Tuesday", nothing more than what could be expected from organizers seeking a   "sustainable event" with "quality rather than quantity"  :lol: 
Yep, likely all true. Never mind :)

#81 edouard

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:17 PM

 

With ETNZ, arguably the most sponsor-dependent team along with presumably BAR, seemingly sidelined at least for this one last meeting before all entered Challs will get accepted and will have meetings and votings rights, then:

I wonder what if any implications there might be resulting from RC having two billionaire-backed teams in the meeting on Tuesday, who may think along some of the same lines as LE? Particularly so since one of the two will be the next CoR?

 

Actually, Team France is the most sponsor dependent team. Franck Cammas didn't get any government cash to keep his team together or setup his base, nor does he have a pool of wealthy countrymen ready to fill in for the day to day expenses.

 

As for the "implications there might be resulting from RC having two billionaire-backed teams in the meeting on Tuesday", nothing more than what could be expected from organizers seeking a   "sustainable event" with "quality rather than quantity"  :lol:

Not quite. Following AC34, FC didn't HAVE a team to protect against predation. 

Give me a break! AC is not the only place where talent (be it for design or sailing) expresses itself, and as far as "predation" is concerned, TNZ is no better than anyone else :rolleyes:



#82 Titan Uranus

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:43 PM

You all fail to comprehend that this is Oracles and Russ;'s cup.

 

they won it

 

the set up the last event and it was good (DESPITE ALL THE NEGATIVE BULLSHIT FROM YOU WANKERS)

 

they spent the bucks

 

they have bragging rights.

 

just like any team in the past!

 

all you lot do is moan because you are not ...

 

A. involved

 

B. liking Coutts because of some 'erroneous past spin"

 

c. don't like Larry and his Strong view points!

 

either way all You "experts" just keep dribbling on about something you cannot change and all because you guys never understand what it is really like in the real AC world.

 

you all just look thru the window and take second guesses at what it could be like then get on SA and spout off like you actually have detailed info on the whole picture.

 

you guys are all full of it and obviously have pathetic lives if you spend your whole life on SA posting inane comment about stuff you don't understand and people you have never met!

 

quite sad really.



#83 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:15 PM

Yes, indeed you are.



#84 Titan Uranus

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:22 PM

WELCOME BACK LB15

 

I MISSED YOU :wub:



#85 dogwatch

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:59 AM

http://sailinganarch...on-not-calling/

 

House of cards built on assumptions derived from a vacuous piece of rumour-mongering.

 

Perfect for SA then,



#86 Barnyb

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 09:44 AM

Veitchy getting a bit carried away
 
 
Veitchy on Sport
3 hrs · 
Have a look at this guys from the world's leading Sailing website .. It does not paint a very nice picture of Russell Coutts.
 
 


#87 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 12:25 AM

I'll be on with Veitchy in 90 minutes.



#88 MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 12:30 AM

Veitchy getting a bit carried away
 
 
Veitchy on Sport
3 hrs · 
Have a look at this guys from the world's leading Sailing website .. It does not paint a very nice picture of Russell Coutts.
 
 

 HUSSELVISION not russelvision 

 

he has same common denominator with ggyc /ehman /evilsin= greed -scam corruption



#89 PeterHuston

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 01:06 AM

 

Veitchy getting a bit carried away
 
 
Veitchy on Sport
3 hrs · 
Have a look at this guys from the world's leading Sailing website .. It does not paint a very nice picture of Russell Coutts.
 
 

 HUSSELVISION not russelvision 

 

he has same common denominator with ggyc /ehman /evilsin= greed -scam corruption

 

 

If there is SCAM and CORRUPTION when exactly are you going to finally file a lawsuit so you can BREAK LARRY ELLISON OF BILLIONS?

 

We're waiting.  Sort of.



#90 Sailbydate

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 04:27 AM

Radio Sport today: KS and DB confirmed RC spat the dummy because TNZ wouldn't sign 'that' Euro media release - so decided to 'un-invite' them. 
 
What a plonker. He won't want to risk that puerile stunt again, now they have entered.


#91 Xlot

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 08:23 AM

Spit the Dummy
Australian Term: To indulge in a sudden display of anger or frustration; to lose one's temper. The phrase is usually used of an adult, and the implication is that the outburst is childish, like a baby spitting out its dummy in a tantrum and refusing to be pacified. (Dummy is a pacifier)

:)




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