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How to turn one aluminum stick into three!


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#1 wristwister

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:09 PM

I'm pretty sure there was a much less destructive solution to this problem:

 

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be



#2 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:24 PM

TowBoat/US.  So much for "professional operators" .  

 

Wonder who gets to pay the deductible?  



#3 Blitz

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:22 PM

Moe power Scotty. But captain I'm giving you all shes got. Wait, never mind.

#4 Cleveland Steamer

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:25 PM

Looks like someone failed basic geometry and physics. They should have yanked on a halyard to lower the mast before pulling on the boat.



#5 couchsurfer

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:29 PM

.

..holy FACK...I can only think the tow-boat was being paid to -destroy- the mast........insurance job?  :mellow:

 

 

............liked the golf-clapping from the shoreside spectators :)



#6 blackjenner

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:39 PM

I thought the golf clapping and laughing was pretty sub-par, but then I'm not an asshole.

 

There are discussions going on about this on a FB page dedicated to a local race (Duck Dodge). 

 

Some started questioning why the boat got there and assumed the owner was a dumb ass for thinking his mast would fit under the fixed (south) portion of that bridge.

 

The thing is, they could have thought they would fit and were wrong but, I think there is another possibility.

 

Coming out of the small locks, their engine failed. The current there is strong, because of the locks and waterfalls that empty Lake Washington into the sound. If you have an engine failure right there, and you can't deploy an anchor within seconds, you get pushed downstream at about 5 knots -- easy. 

 

That's what could have happened and I won't clap for it.



#7 couchsurfer

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:44 PM

.

...the clapping was at the end,,,when the idiot tow-boat did such an eloquent job of rescue destroying the mast



#8 hobot

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:29 PM

+1 on the swift current, that is a bit of a pickle there as the bridge doesn't open on the that side.



#9 steele

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:33 PM

I think BJ's analysis is likely correct, the boat is stuck in the side channel, not where the bridge opens.  It is hard to imagine getting a boat in that spot on purpose, and the current there is stronger than the center.  On my last trip out of the locks a large ketch got sidways at the end of the lock and spun down the channel towards the same bridge.  The skipper finaly got it all sorted, but the current when the lock opens, especilaly durring an ebb can be pretty fast.

 

Now why they did not pull the boat over on it's side to get it out is another question.



#10 Bulbhunter

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:39 PM

Two boats involved in unsticking it and they didn't bother trying to pull a halyard with one and pulling the hull the opposite direction with the other?



#11 GnarlyItWas

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:16 PM

Where was the owner / skipper of the sailboat ?



#12 Vincent DePillis

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:49 PM

I heard they moored there at low tide, had to wait so long that the rising tide stuck the mast into the bridge.



#13 bruno

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:26 PM

congrats on another successful rescue in order apparently, and a nice sunny day to boot



#14 Keith

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:04 PM

omg....... :blink:



#15 Timo42

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:19 AM

This is an update from someone who spoke to Vessel Assist.

NEWS. Spoke with Vessel assist. Boat lost power and both wind and current pushed under bridge. And a tide was coming up it was pushing the hull underwater with running current. So decision was made to intentionally sacrifice the stick to save the boat. Great Company Vessel Assist.

So, if you lost power leaving the small locks in your sailboat, what would you do?

 

From the comments...



#16 SloopJonB

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:27 AM

Drop the anchor(s) which should always be ready to go but seldom are - usually in a locker someplace below.



#17 Russell Brown

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:29 AM

Having come very close to greif on this same bridge, my heart goes out to the boat owner. Really nice work by Vessel Assist.

This rail road bridge is the last barrier between the city and the open water. The temptation is to hit the gas when leaving the locks and head toward the sparkling sea, not noticing the bridge in the way. Anyway, that's what happened to me. My buddy put a monster dent in his mast for the same reason.



#18 Norm

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 02:52 AM

So ? what should have happened ?

 

hook  a halyard up to the towboat to lean it over more and and two ropes ones to bow and one to stern and drag it out sideways - almost need a tug boat

 

whats the best way to remedy ?



#19 wristwister

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:11 AM

Look closely at the video. Something is holding the top of that mast firm onto the underside of the bridge. Even after the mast breaks its still stuck to the bridge. Tow boat had to gun it hard to unstick it, then the mast immediately came tumbling down. I'm guessing they either tried the halyard trick, or it was obvious from the get go that it wouldn't work.

 

... and regarding the idea of anchoring, I'd be amazed if anyone could actually pull this off coming out of those locks. Without and engine they were probably doing the spinning turd in a toilet bowl trick coming out of there (much to the delight of the hordes of tourists at the locks), and there's very little time before you're at that bridge. 

 

Bummer for this dude and his boat. Hope he knows about the Sailboat Wrecking Yard up north where he may be able to find another stick.



#20 mikeys clone no1

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 03:38 AM

 

http://www.thedailys...es-bolte-bridge

 

its not rocket science.



#21 SloopJonB

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:34 AM

I agree with Twister (even thought he dissed my anchor idea :o ) I thought it looked like the masthead was hung up or jammed or wedged, not just stuck under the bridge



#22 jzk

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 01:20 PM

Still, why wouldn't the halyard trick work?  Was the boat aground?  If not, then attach the halyard to the tow boat.  Put the halyard on a winch on the sailboat and haul.  It has to pull the mast down allowing the boat to drift with the current either way it happens to be running.  Hopefully the way it was running when it all happened.



#23 blackjenner

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 05:27 PM

Here's the story, from the Duck Dodge group on FB, where we were discussing this.

 

NEWS. Spoke with Vessel assist. Boat lost power and both wind and current pushed under bridge. And a tide was coming up it was pushing the hull underwater with running current. So decision was made to intentionally sacrifice the stick to save the boat. Great Company Vessel Assist.



#24 jzk

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:33 PM

So the tide is pushing the boat up into the bridge.  Still, hauling the halyard while connected to the tow boat would be the way to go.  However, that would put someone on the sailboat potentially in harms way.  

 

The other thing they could have done is drag the boat the other way.

 

Here's the story, from the Duck Dodge group on FB, where we were discussing this.

 

NEWS. Spoke with Vessel assist. Boat lost power and both wind and current pushed under bridge. And a tide was coming up it was pushing the hull underwater with running current. So decision was made to intentionally sacrifice the stick to save the boat. Great Company Vessel Assist.

 

 


Here's the story, from the Duck Dodge group on FB, where we were discussing this.

 

NEWS. Spoke with Vessel assist. Boat lost power and both wind and current pushed under bridge. And a tide was coming up it was pushing the hull underwater with running current. So decision was made to intentionally sacrifice the stick to save the boat. Great Company Vessel Assist.



#25 Bulbhunter

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:01 PM

Wedged mast head - you pull the hull in the direction to enhance the already leaning situation not the opposite direction, and at the same time you pull the halyard to get the mast down and out of the bridge. No risk to anyone on the boat till you start pulling the wrong way and compress the mast under the bridge.



#26 wristwister

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:10 PM

OK, looked at the video again. It does indeed look like the current was running left to right, basically trying to submerge the hull. And in the beginning of the video, there is a  boat attempting to pull it to the left. So maybe the scenerio went like this:

 

Locks opens

No motor

Turd in the toilet bowl

Boat drifts with current under bridge

Top of mast snags on something

There they sit, trying to figure out what to do, when the tide goes from ebb to flood

Tow boat tries to pull left, not enough juice to fight the current and unstick the mast

Said "Fuck the stick, get us out of here!"



#27 See LEVEL

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 12:42 AM

Hard to tell but it looks like a Esprit 37
I don't think you're going to heel it over with a halyard.
Calling Bob Perry,
what's the righting moment for this boat? Its not your old boat is it?

#28 Blitz

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 01:05 AM

Wonder how much damage the boat has. Ripping the rig off like that has to be ugly. Probably totaled the boat.

#29 jzk

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 01:15 AM

How could you not heel it over with a halyard connected to the tow boat?

Hard to tell but it looks like a Esprit 37
I don't think you're going to heel it over with a halyard.
Calling Bob Perry,
what's the righting moment for this boat? Its not your old boat is it?



#30 See LEVEL

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 01:41 AM


How could you not heel it over with a halyard connected to the tow boat?




Hard to tell but it looks like a Esprit 37
I don't think you're going to heel it over with a halyard.
Calling Bob Perry,
what's the righting moment for this boat? Its not your old boat is it?

The mast is several feet into the bridge already. Your not going to get enough angle to pull it over, especially with those tow boats,their set up for towing horizontal not vertical. Let alone you can't cant the keel like the oz video of wild oats.
By the way why are they going upriver of the bridge with the stick in.

#31 Islander Jack

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 03:54 AM

Seems to me they could have parted the shrouds and let the mast drop intact.  Maybe nobody had tools that could do it.



#32 SCANAS

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 04:04 AM

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=jXHsNmQehr4

I see your WOXI Video and raise you this one of AUDI going under a much, much, much shorter bridge.

Definitely looked like the mast was hooked onto the bridge. Could have tried to pull yacht opposite. Probably had to be there I think.

#33 Swanno (Ohf Shore)

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 04:25 AM

^^40m supermaxi.....

 



#34 soling2003

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 04:39 AM

The current always runs out of the locks, from right to left in the picture.  He was coming out of the locks, See Level.  The section just past the boat opens when trains aren't going over it for sailboats.

Been there without an engine, luckily we got a tow right away.  Anchoring quickly isn't an option unless you have one at the ready on deck with someone tending it......don't think that will ever happen.  It takes all of 30 sec. to exit the locks before you are at the bridge. 

The only thing that would have save the stick is if Vessel Assist got there soon enough before the mast was wedged in the structure of the bridge and used a halyard to heel the boat over.  Even an Esprit 37 would heal over fairly easily with a halyard.  But they were pulling the boat out backwards.  Should have gone from right to left, (west) so that the mast would come out instead of the other way.  That's either vessel assist or the owners mistake in my book.



#35 SCANAS

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 11:29 AM

Can't see the salvors letting anyone up
The mast at that point.

#36 DavidBuoy

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 12:14 PM

You don't need a convoy, just some balls...

 



#37 ctutmark

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 03:20 PM

For those who do not live near the bridge, here is some history: http://www.memoriesh...ton/Bridge.html

 

Also of note is the masthead was lodged into one of the small trussed boxes along the bridge edge. One of these can be seen in the black and white pic in the link as one of the vertical members of the bridge. If they had gotten the boat free quickly when things first got stuck, the mast "may" have survived. As it was, the only question was how many pieces it was going to be in once the boat was freed. And it was a keel stepped mast so dropping shrouds would have only changed where it broke, not whether it broke. 

 

For this spot, the surface water almost always runs to the west (going left) as it is fresh water coming from the Locks and the spillway.



#38 duncan (the other one)

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:36 AM

For those who do not live near the bridge, here is some history: http://www.memoriesh...ton/Bridge.html
 
Also of note is the masthead was lodged into one of the small trussed boxes along the bridge edge. One of these can be seen in the black and white pic in the link as one of the vertical members of the bridge. If they had gotten the boat free quickly when things first got stuck, the mast "may" have survived. As it was, the only question was how many pieces it was going to be in once the boat was freed. And it was a keel stepped mast so dropping shrouds would have only changed where it broke, not whether it broke. 
 
For this spot, the surface water almost always runs to the west (going left) as it is fresh water coming from the Locks and the spillway.

yup.

You can see at the start of the vid that the masthead is already wedged in the bridge structure -- fooked with a big kink about a foot down from the tip.

But why they didn't just let out a halyard and pull to the right on it with the tow boat, dragging her out sideways is anyone's guess - would have salvaged the rest of the mast and avoided more damage.

masts are designed for knockdowns under kite -- they can take that shit.

#39 SCANAS

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 11:06 AM

They aren't designed for impacts though. Mast was lost when it hit the bridge and wedged in there. Personally would have cut the rig free, from my armchair of course.

#40 jesposito

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 12:24 PM

.

...the clapping was at the end,,,when the idiot tow-boat did such an eloquent job of rescue destroying the mast

You all are blaming the tow boat, what about the fuckwit owner of the boat who got the boat stuck there in the first place? 



#41 Asymptote

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 06:41 PM

.

...the clapping was at the end,,,when the idiot tow-boat did such an eloquent job of rescue destroying the mast

You all are blaming the tow boat, what about the fuckwit owner of the boat who got the boat stuck there in the first place? 

Typical SA thread response...watch a vid, be first to shoot and don't bother to ask questions.  Or even read the thread and find out the reasons for the well-documented pending insurance claim.  I've been through that spot maybe 100 times and its one of my very least favorite places to be in a boat.  Lots of boat traffic, commercial and recreational in close quarters, low bridges, nothing but rough cribbing walls to try to tie up to, LOTS of current and swirls, no time to react between the locks and the bridge and no bail-out spots.  Getting into that position is almost certainly pure bad luck not incompetence.

 

That particular location is probably the worst place to lose power in a sailboat the NW in terms of risking damage to your boat.  I think ctutmark is right that the mast was the least expensive part to damage, rather than tearing up the hull.  When the next train went over that bridge, the banging and vibrations were going to be ugly.

 

The most competent sailors on the planet (such as me and you, of course) can get into no-fault fuck-ups.  



#42 Mr. Starbuck

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 07:30 PM

^ yep. Easy to arm chair this type of thing, much more difficult to live it. This is all in line with that poor guy that got hit by the ferry in the san juans last year. It was all his fault on SA, till the report came out of course..



#43 jesposito

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:03 PM

^ yep. Easy to arm chair this type of thing, much more difficult to live it. This is all in line with that poor guy that got hit by the ferry in the san juans last year. It was all his fault on SA, till the report came out of course..

Yeah, you're right we have no hazards out here in the east. :ph34r:

Wing nuts!



#44 soling2003

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:39 AM

Talk about wing nuts.....he said in the NW, not the whole god damn world......if people would only learn to read....and comprehend.  Lost art I guess.



#45 Boudreaux

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 09:38 AM

Ouch. I had some thoughts, then watched again and realized the only one of relevance was "shit...shit.shit.shit"

Bummer.

#46 jesposito

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:22 AM

Talk about wing nuts.....he said in the NW, not the whole god damn world......if people would only learn to read....and comprehend.  Lost art I guess.

Gotta stop inbreeding out that way



#47 Cags

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:03 PM

So what happened the camera guy at 0:46 when the mast initially cracks?

Does he get a fright and nearly jump out of his skin?



#48 phillysailor

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:38 AM

There is no manual for this kind of thing. The guy who comes up with the "pull the halyard down and pull the boat the other way" may not know ten or fifteen things about the situation that made that dangerous or unfeasible. Like the current might simply force the boat to pivot instead of come along nicely when asked to by the tow boat. Or the possibility of communication between the two boats becoming problematic at the wrong time, with the result being parted shrouds flying horizontal to the water and slicing into people on the tow boat.

 

It really looked to me as if the mast was stuck like a peg in a hole, and there was no extracting it without sinking the boat a few feet. Ya know, sort of like sinking. 

 

That mast was toast from the git-go. Glad no one got hurt, and the tow boat guys deserve thanks for putting themselves and their boats in harm's way. 



#49 Merit 25

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:36 PM

Removing the shrouds would've saved any potential damage to the chain plates or bulkheads. Just the stick would've been lost.



#50 snipelee

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 09:49 PM

Watched a similar "accident" involving one of the draw-bridges between Palm Beach and West Palm Beach, FL. A sailboat was approaching the bridge under power as it was opening. Boat was going down-current and tried to shoot the opening before the spans were fully raised. Needless to say, he got hooked and was now stuck under the bridge. Funny thing with this particular (old) bridge is that it needed to be fully raised before it could be then lowered - something about the way the safeties were designed. So, up it goes until the boat is now straightened-up and the rig rips out. Way before camera-phones unfortunately!



#51 wjquigs

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 06:11 AM

 

.

...the clapping was at the end,,,when the idiot tow-boat did such an eloquent job of rescue destroying the mast

You all are blaming the tow boat, what about the fuckwit owner of the boat who got the boat stuck there in the first place? 

Typical SA thread response...watch a vid, be first to shoot and don't bother to ask questions.  Or even read the thread and find out the reasons for the well-documented pending insurance claim.  I've been through that spot maybe 100 times and its one of my very least favorite places to be in a boat.  Lots of boat traffic, commercial and recreational in close quarters, low bridges, nothing but rough cribbing walls to try to tie up to, LOTS of current and swirls, no time to react between the locks and the bridge and no bail-out spots.  Getting into that position is almost certainly pure bad luck not incompetence.

 

That particular location is probably the worst place to lose power in a sailboat the NW in terms of risking damage to your boat.  I think ctutmark is right that the mast was the least expensive part to damage, rather than tearing up the hull.  When the next train went over that bridge, the banging and vibrations were going to be ugly.

 

The most competent sailors on the planet (such as me and you, of course) can get into no-fault fuck-ups.  

Yep, if you go through the locks and lose power in a boat with a stick, you are screwed.  Hell, half the time you go outbound through the locks and *don't* lose power, you are screwed, with the current and the railroad bridge that might close at any moment.  According to the Google, it's 492 feet from the end of the lock wall to the bridge.  I don't have my charts handy but it's at least 30 feet deep.  Good luck anchoring before you hit the bridge.

 

Somebody earlier in the thread posited that maybe the boat got stuck on a rising tide while waiting to get into the locks.  While it would be pretty hard to get stuck right under the bridge, it wouldn't be hard to be waiting at the locks so long that the tide changed significantly.  What kills me is that commercial traffic always gets served first.  This might make sense if commercial traffic was actually paying to go first, but when you're sitting there for 1.5 hours (as I've done at 10AM on a Weds morning with no other "recreational" traffic) and the Argosy booze cruise pulls through and preempts everybody and you realize that you're now waiting an additional half hour and the Argosy company paid exactly as much as you did to get through the locks (i.e., $0), you start to wonder if Vladimir Putin or some other oligarch is in charge of the Corps of Engineers lock department.

 

But that's a bit off-topic.  Sorry the guy lost his rig.



#52 See LEVEL

See LEVEL

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Posted 06 August 2014 - 12:17 PM

The locks (and ship canal) were only built to serve commercial traffic and build commerce in Lake Washington. If it wasn't for commercial traffic you'd be paying for every trip. (Probably a lot)




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