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#1 DIYC

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 08:23 PM

Previously owned/raced a U20 and M24.  Need a boat for phrf club racing with no more than 3 total crew, and have narrowed it down to either a new VX-One or used Viper 640.  Test sailed a VX, thought it was great fun but pricey.  Those who have sailed both, what are the pros and cons?  Sailing in Tampa Bay.



#2 Vernon Green

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:10 PM

I am biased but I would say go with a VX. We have been doing fairly well PHRF racing with ours. I think it took everything right with the Viper and kept them while fixing the wrong.

 

Very fun boat! As for the price, there are some used ones out there. #135 is for sale at a great price.



#3 PurpleOnion

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:20 PM

Previously owned/raced a U20 and M24.  Need a boat for phrf club racing with no more than 3 total crew, and have narrowed it down to either a new VX-One or used Viper 640.  Test sailed a VX, thought it was great fun but pricey.  Those who have sailed both, what are the pros and cons?  Sailing in Tampa Bay.

I have a friend who had the same boat progression: U20 -> M24 -> VX-One.

There isn't a doubt in his mind that the VX-One was the right decision.  Speed, crew requirements, ease of setup, ease of sailing, fun factor, etc.



#4 NextExit

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:03 AM

Both are great boats.  That said, I'm biased towards the Viper.  Just south of you in Sarasota is a Viper fleet that you may want to contact.  See https://www.facebook...nax_wizard=true

 

If you need further contact info let me know.

 

#99 is for sale in Fort Walton Beach. 



#5 wpbeardsley

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 11:55 AM

PM sent



#6 port tack

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:49 PM

Watch your PHRF area the GYA will not allow the VX to sail with a regular cert.  Other than that the boats them selves are very close.  Viper bigger and his great for 3 people faster upwind.  VX more a 2 person boat faster downwind.  Boat are easy to sail, set up, and tow.  Vipers aer super cheap used right now, the class has cooled off abit , VX is hot along the gulf coast.



#7 jokerx9

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:58 PM

I am bias toward the viper. Class is great and more regattas for you to travel to than the VX. Also, it is all around faster than the VX so for PHRF racing it makes more sense. 



#8 ultraracer613um

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:37 PM

The viper is not faster all around than the Vx. I own and race both on a very regular basis.

The local north sails guy in st Pete (Robbie) just got a boat and is going to be building and supporting in that area. Seriously good sailor and all around good guy.

Vx has a three regatta series this winter in Sarasota.

I'd take whatever advice you get here and store it away. Go sail both. They are quite different. Stepping from a Vx into a viper feels like stepping from a viper to a melges (FYI my viper friends).

After you've sailed them let us know your impression. Regardless of what you decide.

FYI I was impressed that the spar manufacturer sent a factory rep to support our na's in Newport. They do the same for other class like the j70s. Post purchase support is a big deal to some of us.

Regardless, it's kind of a win - win situation.


I am bias toward the viper. Class is great and more regattas for you to travel to than the VX. Also, it is all around faster than the VX so for PHRF racing it makes more sense. 



#9 not growing up

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 08:27 PM

Buy what you can enjoy locally  OR  accept that you will be driving to enjoy what others are enjoying locally.



#10 DIYC

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 01:32 PM

So what were the improvements made from the Viper to the VX?  It would make sense that there would be some 20 years later.



#11 DIYC

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 01:47 PM

And what would be a competitive phrf rating for SW Florida?  I know, I know that phrf sucks and 1-designs is where its at, but reality is there will be more 10X more phrf racing than 1-design with either of these.



#12 EYESAILOR

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:11 PM

My personal bias is that I am now a part owner of a J70.

 

I spent 5 years following the sport boat scene and tried them all.

 

 

If you like the Viper/VX light displacement niche than you would find the J70 to be a much heavier boat in the water ....obviously it has its advantages but I'll leave that for another thread.

 

 

In the Viper category, there is the Viper 640, VX One, the K6 and the Open 5.70.

 

 

The Open 5.70 : It seems to have become an entirely West Coast scene. Good group of people. It is much heavier boat than other three. The disadvantage of this is that it gets stuck in light air locations. The advantage is that it is pretty robust in heavy air. However to my mind was as heavy to handle as a J 70 when the breeze kicked in, and among the smaller sport boats I would rather have the lighter loads of the other 3.  It has survived other classes so it does something right.

 

 

The K6 :  Best ergonomics in class. Very nice set up for 2 person sailing. A true 2 person high performance keelboat.  Compared to the Viper and the VX I found it a little underwhelming downwind. It needed more breeze to get on the plane and was a little less exciting when it was on the plane. There is not the same sense of ready, steady, "Liftoff!" as I got from the Viper and VX.  I don't want to overstate this because when you compare the K6 to any of the conventional keelboats it is definitely more exciting ....and the downhill ride has more feel and buzz than my J70....but not in the same category as the Viper and VX. The K6 does have one clear advantage over the VX and the Viper and that is that is much better behaved in a broach. It is truly self righting, if you lose it, just ease the sheets and it pops right back on its feet in a very well mannered way.  It is a sophisticated design, enjoyable to sail and a good choice if you really always want to sail with two. It would be cramped for 3 average sized people. It would be a good choice in a high wind location where you want something for a wide range of abilities.

 

 

The VX:  The VX is much more edgy than the K6. Of all the choices it most closely fits the definition of a dinghy with a bulb. The bulb is tiny compared to any of the other 3 boats by a significant amount. . The VX will capsize and does turtle. The flip side of this (no pun intended)  is that the downhill rides in the VX are nothing short of exhilarating and its has a very skiff like feel upwind and downwind. You quickly forget that you are even sailing a boat with a keel and the foil even looks more like a centerboard than a keel. The helm is beautiful and finger light. The ergonomics are generally very good. The sheeting directly from the boom got mixed reviews but there is now an option for either cockpit floor or boom sheeting.  It is more spacious than the K6 but noticeably smaller than the Viper. My one issue with the VX was that it is difficult for some couples to get to the right weight combination.  My husband and I are too light for the optimum weight of the VX and if we had included our college graduate son, we were going to be too heavy. It was conceived as a two person boat. It is marketed as ideal for two heavy people or three light people.  The VX is exhilarating and undeniably the friskiest of the four options.  With all respect to Ultra, it is not the fastest.

 

 

The Viper 640:  At the time of demoing, this was my personal favorite. In terms of exhilaration factor, it is right up there. It is marketed as having a keel boat feel upwind and then taking off like a high performance boat downwind and I would say this is accurate. That said, it is less edgy and airborne that the VX downwind. Some will like the VX more (like Ultra), some will like the slightly more stable platform of the Viper. For me (adrenalin addict) I score the downwind buzz  factor as a 10 for the Vx, a 9 for the Viper and a 7 for the K6.   The Viper is wider and has a full sized keel bulb compared to the VX so there are times when it has much more of a keel boat feel and less pure dinghy than the VX. Overall I liked that feel and felt it created a more accessible boat to more people than the VX. and lower probability of swimming. In terms of self righting the Viper is probably midway between the K6 and the VX.. The Viper is significantly more open and spacious than the other 3 boats and is truly comfortable for 3 people. The ergonomics allow the boat to be sailed by 2 to 4 people. The competitive combination is 3 average weight people with combinations that can include 1 heavy and 2 light crew or 2 heavy and 1 light crew.  It has a fantastic feel on the helm and the crew are very comfortable. Upwind I found it had a beautiful groove and it has that "ready steady, take off!" exhilaration when the kite is hoisted. The Viper class has the greatest traction in the US with very strong local fleets near where I live and a good circuit on west and east coasts.  The class seems well run and has a very sociable group of owners who are very welcoming. They race PHRF all the time in the top right of CT.

 

 

There are many other sport boats that I tried. I view the Viper, VX and K6 as three of the more attractive of the choices and I think you have to try all three to find your personal favorite.

 

 

 

One final point, I think that the so called improvements of the VX over the Viper are largely illusory and marketing. The original Viper has been significantly updated and I see more updates that were made by the Viper that have been subsequently incorporated in the VX than any new updates unique to the VX . Both are well made boats remarkably free of vices with good fittings. The VX has the Gucci feature of a carbon boom but the Viper is a considerably larger boat for the money.  I would not make my choice based of differences in fittings etc, which quickly become superseded as both boats add enhancements to stay current.   

 

 

If PHRF is your main usage......don't forget the J70......less buzz but we are loving ours in the PHRF fleet. (ooops off topic)

 

 

 

 

 



#13 ultraracer613um

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 07:36 PM

Good post eye.

FYI- I did not say the Vx was faster than the viper. I simply said the viper is not faster than the Vx

I also didn't say I prefer the Vx over the viper. In fact I'm partial to both equally.

#14 Vela Sailing Supply

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:16 PM

Previously owned/raced a U20 and M24.  Need a boat for phrf club racing with no more than 3 total crew, and have narrowed it down to either a new VX-One or used Viper 640.  Test sailed a VX, thought it was great fun but pricey.  Those who have sailed both, what are the pros and cons?  Sailing in Tampa Bay.


Both, the Viper and VX are great boats and I know them quite well, here are my thoughts: putting price aside (you must compare apples to apples considering that a very nice pre-owned Viper will be in the same neighborhood if not more of a very nice pre-owned VX), these are the facts where you can see the improvements on the VX One from the Viper:

- Lighter boat and rig allows for lighter crews and smaller cars for ease on logistics and that "grey" zone in regards to the crew weight, in facts allows to play it quite well based on the racing venue for any given event. (San Francisco, sail 3-UP / Chesapeake Bay sail 2-UP in average)
- Larger launching snuffer on the bow
- One-line Kite up/poleout set up
- Stronger, yet manageable, two part rig with very long spreaders. The rig on the VX is very, very strong.
- Aluminum extruded keel blade.
- Boom sheeting (very nice feature, specially allowing for true vang sheeting) with the option of going to the floor.
- Self tacking jib
- Option of turbo it for those handicap races or simply go play.
- "Sacrificial" keel chocks, so if you run aground, don't break the boat...beak the urethane block.
- Hard chines on aft third of hull.
- Furling jib (recessed / below deck level drum)
- Class rules allow for tapering your running rigging.

We had a nice turn out in Miami for Bacardi...the last day was epic there is some video on the web that will give you an idea of the capabilities of the VX sharing the course with Vipers and J/70's.

Competitions has been quite even among sailmakers.

As Ultra mentioned, go and sail them both, either way you won't be wrong, just need to get what accommodates your program better.



 



#15 DIYC

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:29 PM

Thank you all for your responses.  I'll have to get a ride on one of the Vipers in Sarasota so I can compare.  WFPHRF rating for the Viper is 102 W/L and 96 RL.  VX is currently114/108 but that will probably change downward.



#16 Vernon Green

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 12:35 AM

In response to the crew weight issues on the VX. We sail two up with a combined weight of about 330. In over 20 we are at a disadvantage but under that I feel like we can keep up fine upwind and make up some downwind. 

 

In the light air we are equal upwind and can go deeper and faster downwind. I like sailing the boat light.



#17 schoonerman

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:11 AM

Really Great post Eye.

Agreed on the K6 for average sailors in big air. The boat just pops back up. Both VX and Viper offer a more exhilarating ride but either can get you in trouble if they turtle at an inopportune moment.

J70 is more docile than the 3 others but fleets are huge and growing steadily while the other three are limping along.

Pick your boat for your area and style.

In SF Bay the K6, VX and Viper are all unable to race PHRF. Stupid rule but it is what it is. There's no changing it. I've tried for 4 years now.

Eye...have you sailed the M20? Like to see that juxtaposed in your matrix.

#18 jacare

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 06:33 AM

Great post, Eye.

Having sailed both the Vx and the Viper640, hands down, I would pick the Viper.



#19 hendrixharlow

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Posted 05 August 2014 - 02:45 PM


 

I'm going to add a little to this comparison as I went through these tradeoffs myself when I ended up buying my boat (Viper #39).  First, I would echo the earlier statement that much of the 'improvements' talked up in the VX one are simply marketing fluff.  Likewise, you'll hear a lot of this marketing fluff from Rondar (Viper builder) as well..so take it all a bit with a grain of salt.  Also, let me say, the VX is a nice boat--I love the Viper and the VX is basically a mini Viper.. :P

 

 

I just wanted to talk a little to the good points laid out by Vela


- Lighter boat and rig allows for lighter crews and smaller cars for ease on logistics and that "grey" zone in regards to the crew weight, in facts allows to play it quite well based on the racing venue for any given event. (San Francisco, sail 3-UP / Chesapeake Bay sail 2-UP in average)

 

Yes--this is true--the VX is definitely lighter than the Viper--but that said, I've seen Vipers towed with very light cars such as a Saturn SL2, Subaru Impreza etc..the full up weight of boat and trailer is 1000 lb or less.  The advantage to the VX here is that you could possibly tow it with a Mini-Cooper..that's a little marginal w/ the Viper.

 

A big thing for me in the VX was the size of the cockpit--it's set up for two people and is a bit cramped for 3.  I like the spaciousness of the Viper.  I've actually raced the boat with 4 people on it, and there aren't too many space issues--it's perfectly built for 3, and I find the boat has a wide window as far as crew weight goes.  I've sailed the boat with as little as 420 lbs (at HPDO last year in 25-35kts and 6-7 ft seas), and as much as 600 lbs (Charleston RW this year, max wind 8 kts) and have felt competitive at both ends of the spectrum--the rig is very easy to tune.

 

- Larger launching snuffer on the bow

 

The launching tube opening on the VX is bigger--which is nice.  However, the size of the launching opening on the Viper is not a problem at all, as the size was enlarged by the Class Association over the originally designed boat.


- One-line Kite up/poleout set up

I'm not totally sure that this is an advantage--the Viper has a discreet pole and spin halyard, which for me, enables more reliable sets and douses, and makes foul-ups easier to diagnose and fix.  Its nice not having the pole directly tied in to the way I raise the halyard..

 


- Stronger, yet manageable, two part rig with very long spreaders. The rig on the VX is very, very strong.

 

Not totally sure if the VX rig is stronger or not, but I can tell you that the Viper rig is two part (I store it inside my hull whenever I'm travelling), and is EXTREMELY durable.  The first generation carbon rigs for the Viper 640 were somewhat susceptable to sidestays pulling out of the mast (not many on the water these days), but in general, the Vipers mast design is extremely robust (especially the 2nd gen.).  I've sailed my boat over the last two seasons at some events that have had extreme wind--Viper rigs have not failed catastrophically like almost every other class we've sailed w/ (I've seen Melges 20, 24, star  lose multiple rigs without any issues in the Viper class).  I would add that the viper rig has been 'tested' much more than the VXone rig over the last few years..


- Aluminum extruded keel blade.

 

This is nice!  Probably difficult to damage for sure..how is fixing it?


- Boom sheeting (very nice feature, specially allowing for true vang sheeting) with the option of going to the floor.

 

I do this in the Viper downwind all the time..


- Self tacking jib

Personally I don't like these--some people do though.  I like to be able to back the jib easily for blow through gybes and for heaving to..


- Option of turbo it for those handicap races or simply go play.

Can always do this in a Viper, but why when there are routinely 15-30 boats on the line in one design events around the country?


- "Sacrificial" keel chocks, so if you run aground, don't break the boat...beak the urethane block.

Viper has these too.


- Hard chines on aft third of hull.

How does this improve the boat? 


- Furling jib (recessed / below deck level drum)

This is nice for shorthanded sailing.  I've always preferred hanks myself, but again this is a personal preference thing.


- Class rules allow for tapering your running rigging.

The focus of the Viper class is on low cost, accessible one design sailing; so it's currently not legal in one design events to have tapered lines..

 

 

Different strokes for different folks...  The VX is more like a dinghy than the Viper is with less weight in the keel bulb..  Take that for what it's worth. 

 

All of this said, the big selling point for me with the Viper was the Class itself:  every event is like a big family reunion, with tons of fun on and off the water.  The shape of the boat and class is truly determined by the individual owners--  I like the fact that the class' destiny isn't reliant on a company making profits etc...



#20 fairdinkum

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 01:36 AM

Have not sailed a VX, but have had a blast racing in the Viper fleet.

 

Ironically I found out tonight how "forgiving/strong/durable" the Viper 640 rig is when our cap shroud broke in 20 knots of wind, with the kite up, on a tight broad reach.  The moments why you have a GoPro!

 

http://youtu.be/Bfrh5WJLQkI

(video processing on YouTube at time of posting)

 

All turned out safely - no spars were damaged in the making of this video.  Same cannot be said for the toggle on the shroud.  :( 



#21 EYESAILOR

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 12:19 PM

Hello Ultra,

 

I also didn't say I prefer the Vx over the viper. In fact I'm partial to both equally. 

 

I know from your previous posts that you love both boats. My poor communication. I was talking about downwind where the VX was more "edgy"  and some of us (eg Ultra and me) like that edgy feel, so I personally score the VX a 10 in the downwind buzz factor and the Viper as a 9. However, as I pointed out some will prefer the slightly more stable platform of the Viper and they might score the Viper as a 10 and the VX as a 9.   Its personal preference and folks will make up their own minds. For sure.....both of these boats are light years ahead of any competitive production class in the US in terms of their planing ability downwind. 



#22 EYESAILOR

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 01:44 PM

By way of a little myth busting:

 

 

improvements on the VX One 

- Lighter boat and rig allows for lighter crews and smaller cars -SIMPLY PUT. IT IS A SMALLER BOAT.
- Larger launching snuffer on the bow - IRRELEVANT, THE VIPER CHUTE IS EASY TO DOWSE. MORE TELLING IS THAT THE VX ADOPTED THE STAINLESS HOOP INTRODUCED BY THE VIPER WHICH IS WHAT MAKES DOWSING SO EASY ON BOTH BOATS.
- One-line Kite up/poleout set up  I MARGINALLY DISLIKED THIS FEATURE. I PREFER THE SEPARATE POLE CONTROL OF THE VIPER SO THAT IF THE POLE GETS STUCK I CAN STILL DOWSE THE SPINNAKER. BUT I CAN SEE HOW IT HELPS FOR SHORT HANDED SAILING.
- Stronger, yet manageable, two part rig with very long spreaders. The rig on the VX is very, very strong. I REALLY LIKED THE QUALITY OF THE SOUTHERN SPARS RIG.....AND YES THOSE SPREADERS ARE LONG.  
- Aluminum extruded keel blade. INDEED, JUST LIKE THE LIGHTENING DESIGNED BY OLIN STEPHENS IN 1938 ! 
- Boom sheeting (very nice feature, specially allowing for true vang sheeting) with the option of going to the floor. VX HAS BOOM SHEETING WITH OPTION OF FLOOR. VIPERS COME WITH FLOOR AS STANDARD AND CAN BE BOOM SHEETED.  
- Self tacking jib I DISLIKED THIS. MY CREW CAN TACK THE JIB AND I LIKE TO BE ABLE TO TIME WHEN THE JIB COMES ACROSS AND IF WIND CHANGES MOVE JIB CARS BACK AND FORWARD.
- Option of turbo it for those handicap races or simply go play. 
- "Sacrificial" keel chocks, so if you run aground, don't break the boat...beak the urethane block. TRUE OF BOTH BOATS.  ALTHO THE LATEST CIRCULAR FROM  VIPER IS THAT NEW BOATS HAVE RECENTLY GONE ONE STEP FURTHER WITH SACRIFICIAL SIDE  WEDGES SO KEEL IS UNDAMAGED AS WELL. 
- Hard chines on aft third of hull.LIKE THE LIGHTENING DESIGNED BY OLIN STEPHENS IN 1938 ?   :) 
- Furling jib (recessed / below deck level drum)THIS IS PERSONAL PREFERENCE.  THE VIPER HAS ELECTED FOR SIMPLICITY AND JIB SHAPE WITH HORIZONTAL BATTENS. BUT I CONFESS I LIKE THIS FEATURE ON OUR J70.  IT WOULDNT AFFECT MY CHOICE OF BOAT AT THIS SIZE OF BOAT.
Class rule allow tapering your running rigging.  I ADMIRE THE VIPER EMPHASIS ON ONE DESIGN AND BUDGET. I HAVE JUST WRITTEN OUR ANNUAL RUNNING RIGGING CHECK. 

.

As Ultra mentioned, go and sail them both, either way you won't be wrong, just need to get what accommodates your program better.



 

 

I think both are great boats. I think the "improvements" are a bit exaggerated, which is fine and expected. 

 

My preference for the Viper was based on - firstly preferring its "feel" upwind which might be due to the slightly more flexible mast, more forgiving hull shape and the bigger keel AND - secondly the Viper's comfortable size for three.  

 

What I think the VX has over the Viper is better network of agents. There is a terrific person servicing the VX in the North East. This seems to be replicated elsewhere including Vela in Texas and Donnie Brennan on the Gulf.   Rondar seems to rely on class owners much more which seems to me a little more inconsistent, although they are a great and passionate bunch of people near me.

 

We ended up going a different direction and perhaps this is a good way to conclude and sum up the boats.

 

My husband was comfortable crewing in the Viper with me steering, but he didnt want to take the helm in breeze.

The VX was too much for him even as crew (a bit too scary).

He will take the helm on the J70.

 

Despite 26 years and 2 kids, I still love sailing with my grumpy old husband and I like sharing the helm. If it was just me and the kids I probably would have gone with the Viper.......sorry Dave.

 

Yes I have sailed the M20. 

 

 

 

 

 



#23 ols

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Posted 07 August 2014 - 05:30 PM

Back to the idea that you're trying to choose for PHRF racing and not OD, my 2 cents is I dont think there is any handicap reason to prefer one over the other. (When we looked at handicaps last year, most places had the Viper about 6 seconds faster than the VX.)  I've raced the VX, Viper and J/70 in PHRF and enjoyed all 3 - we also race eachother in a mixed sportboat fleet all the time.  Even if you are not planning on OD though, I would still factor local OD possibilities into your decision as, no matter what boat you choose, A.) it's a blast and B.) IMHO it's much harder to know if you're maximizing your boatspeed for PHRF racing until you can race and learn from the fast(er) OD guys in the class (at least this was my experience. I got to do a VX regatta with Brian Bennett in my boat and it was simply great learning/coaching I could take back to racing at home.)

 

I would also ask more about your "no more than 3 total crew."  How much do you think you'll be racing 2-up vs 3-up?  Yes, you can race both VX and Viper with either 2 or 3, but the VX is definitely designed more for 2-up and the Viper more for 3-up.  For what it's worth, though, we have raced the VX 3-up a bunch this season (550 pounds together) and my experience so far is that the extra weight (our 3rd is 200 pounds) is actually nice to have upwind over 10+ knots since we can keep the boat flatter/faster and it does not seem to slow down the boat downwind.  On the flip side, in 6 knots or less, having a 3rd person definitely slows the boat (at least if they're 200 pounds)

 

Final thought if PHRF racing is the top priority (at least for my VX where we typically sail in 15 knots or less) I would defintely be trying to set up the boat with the supersport version masthead kite!  If you are often racing in 15+ knots though, then not necessary I dont think.  (Apologies for borrowing the photo below from another VX thread.)  Also FWIW here's a link to another post on that thread showing the difference in size between the standard kite and the supersport:

http://forums.sailin...47572&p=4177476

 

 

 

_MG_9366%20VX%20One%20Tachyon-L.jpg

 

 



#24 Vela Sailing Supply

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 04:38 PM

As stated before, we really like both boats and I personally have sailed the Viper since the Aluminum rig and standard vang era and have also race on J/70's, yet we can go over and over on each subject and it is a matter of testing and making your own conclusions about each boat.

Here is a little of family sailing at 2014 Bacardi Cup, last day. Sustained 26 knots, gusting to 31:


 



#25 port tack

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 04:51 PM

Threads like this are kind of funny, since you really can't go wrong.  Comes down to personnel preference.  I would go with what ever fleet Jonesy was sailing in because lets all be real for a second.  Yes the boat has to be fun to sail but without Keg stands on the Lawn of Houston Yacht Club does it really matter?  :)   



#26 ultraracer613um

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 01:06 AM

Second the keg stand comment. If the j70 fleet knew how to party like the viper and Vx fleets I'd be tempted. Besides vodka does NOT go with Metamucil .

Sorry eye just a joke. Actually looking at a small partnership on a 70.


Threads like this are kind of funny, since you really can't go wrong.  Comes down to personnel preference.  I would go with what ever fleet Jonesy was sailing in because lets all be real for a second.  Yes the boat has to be fun to sail but without Keg stands on the Lawn of Houston Yacht Club does it really matter?  :)   



#27 EYESAILOR

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 12:31 PM

Ultra,

 

Eye'll trade you a quarter share in meye J70 for a half share in your Viper! :)

 

Don't bother with the regatta keg as a J70 owner.....in my experience by the time you have packed up the J70 after racing,  the Vipers will have finished drinking all their beer and yours as well. Thank God I don't like beer and bring my own vodka.

 

The ideal combination for me if I had unlimited time and budget would be a J70 for our local PHRF and occasional local one design + a Viper for travel regattas.........Oh wait, did I say unlimited budget?  Throw in a McConaghy 38 as well!  



#28 ultraracer613um

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 02:01 PM

Eye- I would take that trade!

The 70 can't be ignored if you want to do some real top level sailing. Next year they are going to have to figure out how to fit more boats in the na's. Amazing.







Ultra,
 
Eye'll trade you a quarter share in meye J70 for a half share in your Viper! :)
 
Don't bother with the regatta keg as a J70 owner.....in my experience by the time you have packed up the J70 after racing,  the Vipers will have finished drinking all their beer and yours as well. Thank God I don't like beer and bring my own vodka.
 
The ideal combination for me if I had unlimited time and budget would be a J70 for our local PHRF and occasional local one design + a Viper for travel regattas.........Oh wait, did I say unlimited budget?  Throw in a McConaghy 38 as well!  



#29 ultraracer613um

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Posted 10 August 2014 - 02:56 PM

Results from a week of head to head sailing in Cowes Sailing Week posted.  Looked pretty tight based on boat-to-boat results.  Looks like top 5 places went to VX, VX, Viper, VX, Modified 1720

 

Top viper won the EFG championship last year, very well sailed.  I would probably assume the same for the VX Ones. 

 

Looks like a bucket list event.



#30 Timbo

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 05:18 AM

We have so many great options in sailing toys now.  You're correct choice will probably come down to how many "friends" you have close by to sail against.

 

If you are in TX or the South East, the VX seems to have started some good traction.  If you live in the North East or the South West, no brainer, Viper all the way.

 

40+ Vipers rolling into Long Beach in 3 weeks for the first NA's on the West Coast.



#31 DIYC

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 06:24 PM

After sailing both, I've decided to go with the Vx after a used one became available within my max price limit for boat, sails, trailer, covers, etc.  Things about the Vx I preferred includes the ability to sail with just 2 and still be competitive in most wind conditions we have in Tampa Bay, and the roller furling jib which the Viper doesn't have.  Did I make the right decision?  Time will tell, but I don't really think there was a wrong one, either would have been fine.  Many thanks to everyone that responded.

 

 



#32 Vela Sailing Supply

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 09:13 PM

After sailing both, I've decided to go with the Vx after a used one became available within my max price limit for boat, sails, trailer, covers, etc.  Things about the Vx I preferred includes the ability to sail with just 2 and still be competitive in most wind conditions we have in Tampa Bay, and the roller furling jib which the Viper doesn't have.  Did I make the right decision?  Time will tell, but I don't really think there was a wrong one, either would have been fine.  Many thanks to everyone that responded.



PM'd.



#33 Christian

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 05:39 PM

I bought boat its extremely wonderful best speed with all performance while boating you feel so happy that you enjoy it..

But important is to keep it systematic by keeping it safe using boat covers.

Why don't you fuck off and try to peddle your powerboat covers in a forum that is actually focused on things like that - asshole



#34 DriverEd

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Posted 11 September 2014 - 07:25 PM

I have to agree you can't go wrong with either boat.  Sailed a VX in 10-18 last weekend.  The biggest improvement I think they made is on the rudder of the VX.  It has a lot more bite than the swept rudder of the Viper.  ViX is definitely quicker downwind, more to handle upwind.  I was on a Viper in Miami and saw VXs blow completely over upwind.  It was a VERY windy day.  Last run I chickened out (and passed several boats laying on their side) and ran under the jib and main, never saw less than 12 knots. Donnie hit 23 knots in the VX, that's smokin'.



#35 Vernon Green

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 02:28 AM

I imagine that some of the Oklahoma boys were some of the boats you saw on their sides. We had two groups fly in that had never sailed their boats and sail them for the first time in Miami this past year. I heard some horror stories.






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