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10,000 rooms. Where's the beef?


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#1 axolotl

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:48 AM

OK, 10,000 room-days over 3 years is only 10 rooms per day, hopefully near the venue.  Would seem to be a small price to pay to make certain critical people are in town during the ramp up to the Cup?  This is a tempest in a teapot.



#2 PeterHuston

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:15 AM

OK, 10,000 room-days over 3 years is only 10 rooms per day, hopefully near the venue.  Would seem to be a small price to pay to make certain critical people are in town during the ramp up to the Cup?  This is a tempest in a teapot.

 

Here's an idea: Why don't you buy a hotel and give them all the rooms they need.



#3 miscut jib

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:18 AM

I believe that's the question the hoteliers have asked. Where's the beef? Guess it's the subculture playing out and the committee too are convinced that this event is the shit?



#4 Barnyb

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:58 AM

Interesting especially if Accor is established as a sponsor of Team France

 

This could have been done in conjunction with Team France to assist them to reach the start line

 

or it could have been done in spite of Team France and really pissed them off and decreased their chances of raising funding.



#5 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:49 AM

OK, 10,000 room-days over 3 years is only 10 rooms per day, hopefully near the venue.  Would seem to be a small price to pay to make certain critical people are in town during the ramp up to the Cup?  This is a tempest in a teapot.


This. The San Diego hotel industry brings in more the $1.5B annually so over 3 years, we are talking 2.75m (rack rate and not actual cost) in tax deductible marketing expenses out of a 4.5B cash flow.

If they don't want the cup, fine. 2.75m is a bunch of money to the readers and they won't do the math. It a very small drop in the San Diego hotel industry's ocean of money.

#6 miscut jib

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:51 AM

I don't think Accor have any hotels in Bermuda or San Diego.

 

It's losing a couple million for no gain. That seemed to be the industry's objections. If it's a great big gravy train for god's sake why can't the people marketing the cup come up with the numbers? Either it's not a gravy train and/or the marketers are idiots.



#7 McGyver

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:09 AM

"Tourism board members seemed cool to the America's Cup idea, to say the least. Matt Greene, of Evolution Hospitality, a hotel management firm, said hoteliers in San Francisco described the event held there last year as an epic failure." (emphasis mine)

 

Any other explanation needed?  On the other hand, how many hotel rooms Bermuda has?

 

How can they take the oldest sport competition in the world and screw it up so badly?



#8 Splintered

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:10 AM

I say don't let the door knob hit you in the ass on the way out.

#9 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:24 AM

I don't think Accor have any hotels in Bermuda or San Diego.
 
It's losing a couple million for no gain. That seemed to be the industry's objections. If it's a great big gravy train for god's sake why can't the people marketing the cup come up with the numbers? Either it's not a gravy train and/or the marketers are idiots.


Very few times are the hotels 100% full at a full ride rate. They may fill up with internet specials, AAA , or military rates. If the give away rooms for marketing, they get to claim full "rack rate" as a marketing expense for rooms that might otherwise be unsold or, at nest sold at a deep discount. A $2.75m "value" isn't a $2.75m expense. You could make the case that some nights, the giveaway would actual increase net profits

If they don't feel it's a deal worth making, that's fine. The faux outrage on the rumored front page and in the article quoted is bullshit.

#10 SellingSailing

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:47 PM

So the stated reason for needing the room is to court sponsors.  Think about that for a second..."hey Ms. CMO in Chicago or NY, take 2 days to come see us in SanDiego and we'll cover your hotel room (but not the mini bar, or breakfast, of your internet connection, or...)."

 

I'm sure that offer will have sponsors flying into San Diego by the droves..

 

What a plan...now if we just had something to sell and salesmen to sell it!



#11 DA-WOODY

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 01:56 PM

Detroit now in lead after offering 10000 housing units

And they can keep them - move in tomorrow

#12 ~Stingray~

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:15 PM

What a plan...now if we just had something to sell and salesmen to sell it!

something on that front, at
http://www.smebrandi...-americas-cup-0

--

Challenge Accepted! SME To Rebrand America's Cup


August 2014

SME, Inc.

New York City, NY

The America's Cup Event Authority has partnered with SME, Inc. New York to develop a new brand strategy, identity and architecture for the organization and 35th America's Cup. SME's challenge for this assignment is to develop a brand that represents in equal parts the history/heritage of this global sports icon while capturing the innovative aspect of an event viewed by many as 'The World Cup of Sailing'.

"It's great to be working with the fabled America's Cup brand and their leadership team on the brand development of one of the most prestigious and esteemed events in the world," said Ed O'Hara, Senior Partner.

--

#13 Sol No-Ebola Rosenberg

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:42 PM

lipstick-pig-logo.jpg



#14 sunseeker

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:48 PM

lipstick-pig-logo.jpg


And don't forget the kardashian 6" white fuck me heels.

#15 DA-WOODY

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 02:51 PM

ACilk Purse Out Of a PIG w Lipstick

Make It !!

#16 Albatros

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:17 PM

OK, 10,000 room-days over 3 years is only 10 rooms per day, hopefully near the venue.  Would seem to be a small price to pay to make certain critical people are in town during the ramp up to the Cup?  This is a tempest in a teapot.

considering the size of the ego's involved, this is a bargain, no ?



#17 ~Stingray~

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:27 PM

OK, 10,000 room-days over 3 years is only 10 rooms per day, hopefully near the venue.  Would seem to be a small price to pay to make certain critical people are in town during the ramp up to the Cup?  This is a tempest in a teapot.

For SD's bid it's potentially one of hopefully many competitive benefit advantages over what Bermuda will offer.

That they have already agreed to offer more than two thirds of the higher number suggests they do see some value; it does demonstrate forward-leaning.

SD has a lot of infrastructure compared to BER, and hotels must surely be one of them.

#18 miscut jib

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:41 PM

funny, I think the America's Cup shaking down San Diego for America's Cup marketing expenses is bullshit. Especially with the shit track record the AC have.



#19 ~Stingray~

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 03:44 PM

How is it a shakedown? Neither SD nor Berumda will offer anything they aren't happy to offer. It's entirely up to them.

There's a perfectly reasonable chance that the SD bid folks asked ACEA what the hotel space wishes were, specifically because they wanted to try accommodate that factor among others. Conventions and other event discussions must surely talk hotel room numbers too.

#20 Albatros

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 04:07 PM

How is it a shakedown? Neither SD nor Berumda will offer anything they aren't happy to offer. It's entirely up to them.

There's a perfectly reasonable chance that the SD bid folks asked ACEA what the hotel space wishes were, specifically because they wanted to try accommodate that factor among others. Conventions and other event discussions must surely talk hotel room numbers too.

this message was brought to you by "all things pro-Ehman, ltd, inc, acme

there, fixed it for you B)

there is of course a slight difference between knowing what the impact would be on hotel room numbers, and the need to give them away for free ... seems to me a shakedown is a bit of an understatement, a holdup might be more appropriate, the good ole' wild west at it's best, you gotta love 'em :lol: .



#21 floater

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 04:07 PM


What a plan...now if we just had something to sell and salesmen to sell it!

something on that front, at
http://www.smebrandi...-americas-cup-0

--

Challenge Accepted! SME To Rebrand America's Cup


August 2014

SME, Inc.

New York City, NY

The America's Cup Event Authority has partnered with SME, Inc. New York to develop a new brand strategy, identity and architecture for the organization and 35th America's Cup. SME's challenge for this assignment is to develop a brand that represents in equal parts the history/heritage of this global sports icon while capturing the innovative aspect of an event viewed by many as 'The World Cup of Sailing'.

"It's great to be working with the fabled America's Cup brand and their leadership team on the brand development of one of the most prestigious and esteemed events in the world," said Ed O'Hara, Senior Partner.

--
awesome - a new logo on the website.

But last I checked - what you really need for a successful regatta is a reliable breeze.

#22 DA-WOODY

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 04:22 PM

 


What a plan...now if we just had something to sell and salesmen to sell it!

something on that front, at
http://www.smebrandi...-americas-cup-0

--

Challenge Accepted! SME To Rebrand America's Cup


August 2014

SME, Inc.

New York City, NY

The America's Cup Event Authority has partnered with SME, Inc. New York to develop a new brand strategy, identity and architecture for the organization and 35th America's Cup. SME's challenge for this assignment is to develop a brand that represents in equal parts the history/heritage of this global sports icon while capturing the innovative aspect of an event viewed by many as 'The World Cup of Sailing'.

"It's great to be working with the fabled America's Cup brand and their leadership team on the brand development of one of the most prestigious and esteemed events in the world," said Ed O'Hara, Senior Partner.

--
awesome - a new logo on the website.

But last I checked - what you really need for a successful regatta is a reliable breeze.

 

the location don't need no stinkin breeze Cuz RC is Blowin It !!!



#23 maxmini

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 05:00 PM

Just for the fun of it lets suppose no venue bends over far enough to give up 10.000 rooms .

What does RC do then ?

#24 ~Stingray~

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 05:15 PM

There must be some kind of matrix of factors they will consider when comparing venues, some weighted more heavily than others.

I bet the LE factor is the determining one once he take twenty minutes to consider the options presented but there's a reasonable chance he'll take in some advice too. Judy Sim (Oracle CMO) will surely help him decide, USA Today ran an article in Sept '13 that quoted her talking about the 'immeasurable' value of the AC to the Oracle brand. Iirc the article also pointed to how good it was that so many ORacle customers were already housed in hotels during the Cup, because of Oracle World.

#25 floater

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 05:17 PM

Just for the fun of it lets suppose no venue bends over far enough to give up 10.000 rooms .

What does RC do then ?

its an auction. AC35 sold to the highest bidder.

Next time - hire Sotheby's.

The crazy thing is that this is about a yacht race - who is busy designing boats right now vs. extorting potential venues?

Perhaps this is why OR were so late to the game last time around?

#26 gregj1

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 05:18 PM

I just wish Scott or Clean or whoever it is that has such a giant stick up their ass over the AC would get over it.  They want free hotel rooms.  BIG FUCKING DEAL!

Please go back to telling me what an asshole Dan Meyers is.



#27 ~Stingray~

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 05:20 PM

I just wish Scott or Clean or whoever it is that has such a giant stick up their ass over the AC would get over it.  They want free hotel rooms.  BIG FUCKING DEAL!
Please go back to telling me what an asshole Dan Meyers is.

+1
The FP piece is both nasty and ridiculous. Accommodation options are a natural consideration.

#28 sunseeker

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 05:28 PM

Just for the fun of it lets suppose no venue bends over far enough to give up 10.000 rooms .

What does RC do then ?


Tries to raise cash by selling them on Craigslist?

#29 DA-WOODY

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 05:46 PM

There must be some kind of matrix of factors they will consider when comparing venues, some weighted more heavily than others.

I bet the LE factor is the determining one once he take twenty minutes to consider the options presented but there's a reasonable chance he'll take in some advice too. Judy Sim (Oracle CMO) will surely help him decide, USA Today ran an article in Sept '13 that quoted her talking about the 'immeasurable' value of the AC to the Oracle brand. Iirc the article also pointed to how good it was that so many ORacle customers were already housed in hotels during the Cup, because of Oracle World.

 

But then 



#30 Kirwan

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 06:09 PM

Here's my 2 cents from 'reading between the lines':

SF didn't kiss LE's ass, and despite a great event (maybe not so great for the city), His ego won't let it happen there again.

So he goes shopping.... Chicago dropped out when he wanted his ass kissed; they are used to crookeder guys than him..

He likes SD, and the Politicos like the idea, so they've been fitting their kneepads.

Somewhere in there Bermuda shows up with wads of cash and puckered lips.

Actually, it may have *always* been Bermuda - But he knows this will be an unpopular choice, so...

He keeps demanding more from SD, until they back out, letting him play the 'victim', as he follows the money.

All misdirection to divert us from seeing a great sailing event fall by the wayside.

#31 pjh

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 06:27 PM

If this keeps up, eventually the "highest bidder" will be the venue that wants the least amount of money from ACEA. Given the track record since 2007, how can anyone living in the real world think that the AC is a financial bonanza for the hosting city?



#32 DA-WOODY

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 07:27 PM

If this keeps up, eventually the "highest bidder" will be the venue that wants the least amount of money from ACEA. Given the track record since 2007, how can anyone living in the real world think that the AC is a financial bonanza for the hosting city?

 

They should hold it in TAHOE

 

that place fooled people into thinking it was The Bonanza for "LongTime" 



#33 floater

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:15 PM


If this keeps up, eventually the "highest bidder" will be the venue that wants the least amount of money from ACEA. Given the track record since 2007, how can anyone living in the real world think that the AC is a financial bonanza for the hosting city?

winning the AC seems like more of a mistake every day.

#34 ~Stingray~

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:26 PM

Yep, winning it is rather like catching a tiger by the tail.

But for the various parties' hopes that it can move towards better financial self-sufficiency, I'm guardedly optimistic that AC35 will be a pretty good event. What will benefit all of us is that the Challenger group is going to be very, very strong this time around.

#35 ~Stingray~

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 09:36 PM

Here's my 2 cents from 'reading between the lines':

SF didn't kiss LE's ass, and despite a great event (maybe not so great for the city), His ego won't let it happen there again.
.

Although I strongly advocate a repeat on SF Bay, even a quick glance at this page might generate a touch of sympathy for all the shite the organizers had to withstand in SF: http://www.oewd.org/ACSF.aspx

#36 sunseeker

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:07 PM



If this keeps up, eventually the "highest bidder" will be the venue that wants the least amount of money from ACEA. Given the track record since 2007, how can anyone living in the real world think that the AC is a financial bonanza for the hosting city?

winning the AC seems like more of a mistake every day.

Winning the AC is great. Having cooter run it is not.

#37 aldo

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:26 PM


If this keeps up, eventually the "highest bidder" will be the venue that wants the least amount of money from ACEA. Given the track record since 2007, how can anyone living in the real world think that the AC is a financial bonanza for the hosting city?

winning the AC seems like more of a mistake every day.

Winning the AC is great. Having cooter run it is not.

who the fuck are you kidding?
You and and the majority of the professional whiners from your land would love it if he were winning it for you.

#38 miscut jib

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:27 PM

Here's my 2 cents from 'reading between the lines':

SF didn't kiss LE's ass, and despite a great event (maybe not so great for the city), His ego won't let it happen there again.
.

Although I strongly advocate a repeat on SF Bay, even a quick glance at this page might generate a touch of sympathy for all the shite the organizers had to withstand in SF: http://www.oewd.org/ACSF.aspx

 

OMFG! RUNNING AN EVENT IN AN ACTUAL CITY TAKES WORK! Post after AC35 finishes, wherever it finishes, and do a postmortem then. This "bullshit" is merely some other sucker of a city figuring out the terms.

 

too bad no despots think the AC is big enough to legitimize them. Maybe cooter should go courting Kim Jong Il? Myanmar's opening up - Bay of Bengal anyone? Inle Lake? Think out of the box and go courting Bob Mugabe (yeah, they are white, won't fly) but just think of the sailing on Lake Kariba! Heck, he'd throw in some farms, not just lousy hotel rooms!



#39 ~Stingray~

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:41 PM

Shrug. If you like some of us had followed the endless bullshit hurdles that SF bureaucracy required everyone to jump through, perhaps you'd have a better informed opinion.

Otoh, I do think a lot of the work done could be cookie cuttered for an AC35 and Mayor Lee has suggested the same.

#40 The Gardener

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 10:57 PM

10,000 room nights it says or

about 10 rooms nightly for 3 years

more than a little but not an unreasonable request depending on the contract



#41 miscut jib

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:18 PM

Shrug. If you like some of us had followed the endless bullshit hurdles that SF bureaucracy required everyone to jump through, perhaps you'd have a better informed opinion.

 

I'm well aware of the Bay Area bullshit, and the California bullshit, thank you very much condescending booster. If you think San Diego is massively better than SF you are high. This is just a small taste. Chicago? The idea that Chicago would be easier is.... quaint.  No idea about Bermuda, nor do I really care about Bermuda.



#42 ~Stingray~

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 11:42 PM

+1 on that, none of the 3 can match SF in any way, shape or form. It's a blunder, they need to just deal with the hometown.

#43 sunseeker

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:10 AM

10,000 room nights it says or
about 10 rooms nightly for 3 years
more than a little but not an unreasonable request depending on the contract


It's more than 10,000. Add another 7,500 that ACEA wants to pay half price for. So when do they want the rooms? No doubt got ACES and AC events, basically In bulk during the events. Cooter needs to do a better job with presenting this story. He let someone else define the story so it's lost any context at all of benefit.

#44 ~Stingray~

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:56 AM

RC is getting a lot of the 'blame' for an apparent Hotel Request offer, put by SD bid organizers to the TMG, that the TMG largely agreed to by that article,

We don't actually know if RC had anything at all to do with that request number and I doubt that he is the one running any kind of factor-formulated row/cell calculation spreadsheet anyway. Probably, the proposal is in a standard event format, just like with the big annual Comic/Con Conference that SD hotels already bend over backwards to keep, that keep the Hilton and Marriott resorts humming.

#45 bigrpowr

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:50 AM

Here's my 2 cents from 'reading between the lines':

SF didn't kiss LE's ass, and despite a great event (maybe not so great for the city), His ego won't let it happen there again.

So he goes shopping.... Chicago dropped out when he wanted his ass kissed; they are used to crookeder guys than him..

He likes SD, and the Politicos like the idea, so they've been fitting their kneepads.

Somewhere in there Bermuda shows up with wads of cash and puckered lips.

Actually, it may have *always* been Bermuda - But he knows this will be an unpopular choice, so...

He keeps demanding more from SD, until they back out, letting him play the 'victim', as he follows the money.

All misdirection to divert us from seeing a great sailing event fall by the wayside.

I highly doubt LE is crooked. he doesn't have to be. he's got 50 billion legit. its the guys trying to get to 1 billion that are crooked. I would hope OR would stop the money hungry part, and keep it in SF , but there has to be so much more to this than just what we speculate on. we have no idea what kind of promises they are making behind the scenes to get people involved. I'm sure there's many secret alliances and sneaky stuff that goes on , they're trying to please ALOT of people . I assume SF was a big flop for the city in some respects although I don't know exactly which aspects. I know I spent a weekend there for the opening races of the finals, 2 nights at the W , a couple VERY expensive dinners in the city , and lots of random deposits in local watering holes , I otherwise would have spent somewhere else. maybe SF spent too much on the infrastructure and that was a big financial mistake, and possibly OR promised more than it could deliver on that end.

Having the event in SF would attract more this go round after all the online and tv spectators that didn't go last time. Maybe spend less building bs crap , and let the spectators find their place on the shoreline. even though SD is closer for me, SD will suck for breeze.

#46 dogwatch

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Posted 24 August 2014 - 07:45 AM

10,000 room nights it says or
about 10 rooms nightly for 3 years

Fallacy of the average. I imagine they'd want rooms when there is something happening i.e. when they could otherwise be let at peak price.

That said, I'm not sure it's such an outrageous request. Seems to be pretty much how the conference/event industry works.

The hotelier-run district relies on a hotel room surcharge of 2 percent to finance the marketing of San Diego. The room levy typically generates more than $30 million a year, a large portion of which goes directly to the San Diego Tourism Authority for citywide tourism promotion. In addition, a number of events throughout the year, from Beer Week and the Rock and Roll Marathon to the California State Games, get smaller allocations, with the understanding that such events will help fill hotel rooms.



#47 dolph

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:12 AM

Im curious about the " is an event profitable for the location" thing.  My guess is that the New Zealand involvement in the Amrericas cup, must have been very profitable over the years. Lots of pro sailors, marine industry, Just getting on the tourist maps?? Here is an article that indicates profit!

 

http://www.newzealan...mericas-cup.cfm



#48 dogwatch

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:36 AM

^

 

And the name of this fine Kiwi yacht is:

 

Propaganda_2.jpg



#49 Chris 249

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:14 AM

/\

 

"Fair Share". Whoops no, that was her sistership- there's no fair shares in the AC, just propaganda.



#50 bruno

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 03:07 PM

Maybe negoiating, will settle for 100 motels

#51 Kirwan

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 07:58 PM


Here's my 2 cents from 'reading between the lines':

SF didn't kiss LE's ass, and despite a great event (maybe not so great for the city), His ego won't let it happen there again.

So he goes shopping.... Chicago dropped out when he wanted his ass kissed; they are used to crookeder guys than him..

He likes SD, and the Politicos like the idea, so they've been fitting their kneepads.

Somewhere in there Bermuda shows up with wads of cash and puckered lips.

Actually, it may have *always* been Bermuda - But he knows this will be an unpopular choice, so...

He keeps demanding more from SD, until they back out, letting him play the 'victim', as he follows the money.

All misdirection to divert us from seeing a great sailing event fall by the wayside.

I highly doubt LE is crooked. he doesn't have to be. he's got 50 billion legit. its the guys trying to get to 1 billion that are crooked. I would hope OR would stop the money hungry part, and keep it in SF , but there has to be so much more to this than just what we speculate on. we have no idea what kind of promises they are making behind the scenes to get people involved. I'm sure there's many secret alliances and sneaky stuff that goes on , they're trying to please ALOT of people . I assume SF was a big flop for the city in some respects although I don't know exactly which aspects. I know I spent a weekend there for the opening races of the finals, 2 nights at the W , a couple VERY expensive dinners in the city , and lots of random deposits in local watering holes , I otherwise would have spent somewhere else. maybe SF spent too much on the infrastructure and that was a big financial mistake, and possibly OR promised more than it could deliver on that end.

Having the event in SF would attract more this go round after all the online and tv spectators that didn't go last time. Maybe spend less building bs crap , and let the spectators find their place on the shoreline. even though SD is closer for me, SD will suck for breeze.


I'll retract my use of the word 'crooked'. What I meant is in line with what you've written; In Chicago, they are well versed in backroom dealings, secret negotiations and people who drive very hard bargains. (as in.. "make him an offer he can't refuse"). They weren't going to be wooed with the same promises.

And that's what appears to be going on here. There are secret plans, deals already in place and decisions made, but we are being fed a carefully metered stream of 'information' to divert attention from the back room.

It's my opinion that Bermuda is a done deal, and I wouldn't be surprised if the designers are already working to fit the conditions there.

#52 DA-WOODY

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 08:46 PM

 

Here's my 2 cents from 'reading between the lines':

SF didn't kiss LE's ass, and despite a great event (maybe not so great for the city), His ego won't let it happen there again.

So he goes shopping.... Chicago dropped out when he wanted his ass kissed; they are used to crookeder guys than him..

He likes SD, and the Politicos like the idea, so they've been fitting their kneepads.

Somewhere in there Bermuda shows up with wads of cash and puckered lips.

Actually, it may have *always* been Bermuda - But he knows this will be an unpopular choice, so...

He keeps demanding more from SD, until they back out, letting him play the 'victim', as he follows the money.

All misdirection to divert us from seeing a great sailing event fall by the wayside.

I highly doubt LE is crooked. he doesn't have to be. he's got 50 billion legit. its the guys trying to get to 1 billion that are crooked. I would hope OR would stop the money hungry part, and keep it in SF , but there has to be so much more to this than just what we speculate on. we have no idea what kind of promises they are making behind the scenes to get people involved. I'm sure there's many secret alliances and sneaky stuff that goes on , they're trying to please ALOT of people . I assume SF was a big flop for the city in some respects although I don't know exactly which aspects. I know I spent a weekend there for the opening races of the finals, 2 nights at the W , a couple VERY expensive dinners in the city , and lots of random deposits in local watering holes , I otherwise would have spent somewhere else. maybe SF spent too much on the infrastructure and that was a big financial mistake, and possibly OR promised more than it could deliver on that end.

Having the event in SF would attract more this go round after all the online and tv spectators that didn't go last time. Maybe spend less building bs crap , and let the spectators find their place on the shoreline. even though SD is closer for me, SD will suck for breeze.

 

I'll retract my use of the word 'crooked'. What I meant is in line with what you've written; In Chicago, they are well versed in backroom dealings, secret negotiations and people who drive very hard bargains. (as in.. "make him an offer he can't refuse"). They weren't going to be wooed with the same promises.

And that's what appears to be going on here. There are secret plans, deals already in place and decisions made, but we are being fed a carefully metered stream of 'information' to divert attention from the back room.

It's my opinion that Bermuda is a done deal, and I wouldn't be surprised if the designers are already working to fit the conditions there.

 

You're supposed to say:

 

"They Get It Done"

 

You're Not to talk about How !!!

 

1:46pm B)



#53 WetHog

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 10:23 PM

I get Scot doesnt want the AC in SD, and I dont either, but he doesnt need to make shit up:

 A) told San Diego they want 10,000 free hotel rooms if they are to bless Dago with the right to host The Cup.

So Cousin Coutts is demanding 10, 000 hotel rooms?  Is there even 10, 000 hotel rooms in SD?

Scot and the FP are coming off like whiny babies.

WetHog

#54 DA-WOODY

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 10:43 PM

I get Scot doesnt want the AC in SD, and I dont either, but he doesnt need to make shit up:

 A) told San Diego they want 10,000 free hotel rooms if they are to bless Dago with the right to host The Cup.

So Cousin Coutts is demanding 10, 000 hotel rooms? Is there even 10, 000 hotel rooms in SD?

Scot and the FP are coming off like whiny babies.

WetHog

 

^^^^^  YES and then sum 

 

Hay it's only 5 X :

 



#55 ~Stingray~

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 10:44 PM

+100, WH.

That FP thing is a mirror reflection of Scott: Kinda drama-queen pathetic.

I just don't get how anyone can't like the fact that there is a pyramid at the top of the sport we love that blows such ridiculous amounts of money, on something so ridiculously cool.

Instead of treating any and every development as something crooked and outrageous?

That the passion exists at the high very level that it does absolutely should be celebrated.

#56 sunseeker

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 11:01 PM

I get Scot doesnt want the AC in SD, and I dont either, but he doesnt need to make shit up:

 A) told San Diego they want 10,000 free hotel rooms if they are to bless Dago with the right to host The Cup.

So Cousin Coutts is demanding 10, 000 hotel rooms? Is there even 10, 000 hotel rooms in SD?

Scot and the FP are coming off like whiny babies.

WetHog


There's probably more than 10,000 hotel rooms in and around San Diego. The question is when I cooter going to want them. Probably mostly during ACWS and AC events. And he wants an additional 7,500 rooms at half price. That's a lot room night inventory to take out of the market especially coming from a guy whose event marketing income track record is a proven massive failure.

#57 ~Stingray~

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 11:10 PM

It's 10, 000 ~hotel-room-nights~ that the SD guy proposed to the TMG.

Hotels in most cities run witj about 20% vacancy rates, the cost of giving free or discounted room is nothing like $300/nt to the hotel owners. And even if it did cost them, well why in the the hell would I care?

#58 frostbit

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 11:24 PM

For the purpose of supplying facts:

According to the San Diego convention center, there are 55,000 hotel rooms in the San Diego region. So....
55,000 hotel rooms x 365 days x 3 years = 60,225,000 hotel room nights.
10,000/60,225,000 = 0.017% of hotel capacity over the the course of three years.

This seems reasonable... Now we should ask what does San Diego and more importantly, in this case, the hotel industry get for those 10,000 rooms?

Anybody know how many room night ComicCon gets from San Diego hotels?

#59 Editor

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Posted 25 August 2014 - 11:52 PM

+100, WH.

That FP thing is a mirror reflection of Scott: Kinda drama-queen pathetic.

I just don't get how anyone can't like the fact that there is a pyramid at the top of the sport we love that blows such ridiculous amounts of money, on something so ridiculously cool.

Instead of treating any and every development as something crooked and outrageous?

That the passion exists at the high very level that it does absolutely should be celebrated.

 

 

drama queen pathetic? holy fuck mate, you should take rc's nuts out of your mouth for 1 minute, and then think for 1/2 a second about how inherently lame attempting to hold the AC in SD Bay is for starters, and then take a look at the hotel shakedown and then ask yourself if you have fallen and hit your head. 



#60 ~Stingray~

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:00 AM

holy fuck mate yourself; look at the hotel stats above, and look at SD's solid AC history , while i quietly go find the long list of endless effing drivel that We at the fp post when it comes to anything ac.

SA's coverage of the AC is ~at best~ stupidly drama-queen, reflecting only that mirror.

#61 PeterHuston

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:07 AM

holy fuck mate yourself; look at the hotel stats above, and look at SD's solid AC history , while i quietly go find the long list of endless effing drivel that We at the fp post when it comes to anything ac.

SA's coverage of the AC is ~at best~ stupidly drama-queen, reflecting only that mirror.

 

Is this the sort of "Solid AC history" about San Diego to which you refer?  

 

(From the LA Times archives)

 

 

America's Cup Debt Payment Plan Offered : Regatta: Proposal is designed to keep cash-strapped organizing committee from being forced into bankruptcy.
July 14, 1992|MARK PLATTE and GREG JOHNSON | TIMES STAFF WRITERS

Anxious to keep from falling into involuntary bankruptcy, the America's Cup Organizing Committee presented creditors with its plan Monday for satisfying $3.3 million in debt from this year's races.

In a closed-door meeting, organizers and representatives of the San Diego Wholesale Credit Assn. distributed the repayment plan on behalf of the committee as well as its marketing arm, America's Cup Services, and its predecessor, Sail America Foundation for International Understanding.

pixel.gif

Under the financial reorganization, tax obligations and secured creditors will be paid first, and "it is anticipated" in full, according to the written synopsis given vendors.

About 117 unsecured creditors, all of whom have claims of $1,000 or less, will be paid 75% of their total. The creditors are owed a total $32,000 but will be paid $24,000, according to the plan.

Twenty other creditors, with claims of $1,000 to $2,500, will be paid half what they are owed, or about $17,000. The remaining unsecured creditors will received "a proportionate share of the remaining assets," the statement says.

Some creditors will be paid by the San Diego Unified Port District, which gave the ACOC about $8 million to run the regatta. Race organizers had asked for $20 million.

A summary statement of the organization's assets and liabilities shows that the ACOC has yet to pay off a $2-million loan from First National Bank. That loan is of special interest to creditors because ACOC President Malin Burnham is also chairman of the bank. If the loan is secured, vendors fear it will take precedence over their demands.

Monday's financial presentation was a means of escaping court-imposed bankruptcy proceedings, which could be initiated by any creditor owed money. Should that happen, a court could wrest control of the ACOC from its management team. Cash-strapped firms often try to settle disagreements out of court speedily, to cut legal costs.

The disclosure of the $3.3-million debt is the latest in a long series of embarrassments for the ACOC. Since 1988, ACOC has consistently overestimated revenues and underestimated expenses.

In addition, the ACOC was mired from the beginning in a legal battle with Australian Michael Fay over when and where the race would be staged. The lawsuit was eventually settled, but resulted in a race mismatch between Fay's so-called "The Big Boat" and Dennis Conner's swift catamaran, which easily defeated Fay.

The yacht races themselves were criticized for being too far removed from the general public, fueling the perception that the sport is elitist. Ironically, this year's races--in which the America 3 syndicate defended the Cup by defeating Il Moro di Venezia of Italy--were a huge success in other parts of the world while of little interest to most San Diegans.

The idea that money would pour into the city from the race this year failed to materialize when just eight syndicates took part in the regatta rather than the 12 or 13 expected. The world recession made it difficult for international travelers to visit San Diego, and hindered ACOC's ability to wring cash from corporate sponsors.



#62 ~Stingray~

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:14 AM

I'm referring to the fact that SD has held the AC more times (4?) than any other city in the USA besides Newport.

If you, PH out of your latest hatred-target RC, or We (Scott) at the FP, both hate the idea of the AC going to SD again, for a litany of your own bizarre reasons, well then:

Okay but let's all just recognize how SA's take comes down to a very few ugly-minded mega-phoners. It is not a good look in your morning mirror, the reflection is ugly at best.

#63 Editor

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:21 AM

oh yes sting ray, lat's all hold hands and celebrate the wonder that is san diego ac. the coma off pt loma, the catamran/big boat debacle, the light air, the kelp and now let's hold it in a bay that is far far too small and pretend it's wonderful! you can look at a pile of shit and tell me it's chocolate all you want, but on this, it is still a pile of shit.



#64 ~Stingray~

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:24 AM

If the AC62 can foil in either SD or BDA, then I prefer SD.

Yes I realize it's a possible inconvenience to regular SD sailors; but think the sentiment to be too selfish compared to how much fun the AC could be, if you just let it.

#65 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:25 AM

Here's my 2 cents from 'reading between the lines':

SF didn't kiss LE's ass, and despite a great event (maybe not so great for the city), His ego won't let it happen there again.

So he goes shopping.... Chicago dropped out when he wanted his ass kissed; they are used to crookeder guys than him..

He likes SD, and the Politicos like the idea, so they've been fitting their kneepads.

Somewhere in there Bermuda shows up with wads of cash and puckered lips.

Actually, it may have *always* been Bermuda - But he knows this will be an unpopular choice, so...

He keeps demanding more from SD, until they back out, letting him play the 'victim', as he follows the money.

All misdirection to divert us from seeing a great sailing event fall by the wayside.

 

This is pretty close to what the majority of my AC and team sources have said.  Neither Chicago nor San Fran would offer cash. 



#66 ~Stingray~

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:30 AM

Your secret sauces may have been drunk again in some undisclosed location where everyone loves Clean, but: There's nothing new in any of that. Read my sig: it has the exact offer that SF put forward, one that most of us wish would have been taken up.

Do you get all upset about other pro sailing venue arrangements too, or only AC? If so, then why?

#67 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:36 AM

A strawman says what?



#68 ~Stingray~

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:43 AM

A strawman says what?

You didn't answer the question.



#69 MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:48 AM

A strawman says what?

STRAWRAY  ?

:lol:



#70 WetHog

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 12:52 AM

*EDIT*

 

Just looking for some clarity in regards to SA's official position in regards to AC34.

 

I know why I jumped off the OR/Uncle Larry bandwagon, why did SA after AC33?

 

WetHog    :ph34r:



#71 ~Stingray~

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:00 AM

1st SA couldn't be bothered to get one, not one, reporter to represent SA in SF for AC34, now misleading comments on the FP.  Clean was in SD when the DoGy was tooling around with the wing drooling over what he saw (like we all would), and SA surely made an effort to cover AC33 in Valencia, in February.  So what happened between AC33 and AC34?

 

I care about the AC and the VOR and that's it, and I come to SA to get news/updates/rumors/gossip on those two events.  I get this place is run by a couple people, and those people have opinions that they like to voice, I am fine with that, but it would help to understand when opinions/feelings change.

 

WetHog    :ph34r:

Right. It would also help if the oh-so-brilliant WE on the FP had the balls to propose better arrangements, better venues, better marketing ideas, and better ways to encourage the success of an event that is about to splurge another several $HundredM's into the top of the sport of sailing.

 

But they never do. They have no clue, they aren't up to the heavy lifting but instead in a cowardly way just pretend to be smarter, though constant derision. SA coverage of AC34 and AC35 has been ridiculous no matter the angle you view it from. It reflects on those writing all the complete drivel.

 

'Entertainment Business' my ass, it's simply an ugly freak-show. Let's open that curtain, reveal the real AC Dopes. Let's be honest about how pointless the FP stage actually is.



#72 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:11 AM

Your secret sauces may have been drunk again in some undisclosed location where everyone loves Clean, but: There's nothing new in any of that. Read my sig: it has the exact offer that SF put forward, one that most of us wish would have been taken up.

Do you get all upset about other pro sailing venue arrangements too, or only AC? If so, then why?

 

Since you are not a racer, I know you don't really know a lot about what we cover, but yes, venue choice is always an important part of any amateur or pro regatta report or review, and can be the most-critiqued aspect of a regatta by the attendees, fans, media, etc, though of course 95% of the sailing media will never say anything negative about anyone.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the island, but it's a nice enough place, and I'd have a good excuse to see a friend there and go sailfish hunting in his sweet little sport fisher.wouldn't mind Bermuda at all other than what it signals for Larry's intentions.  Basically, Bermuda is an admission that the entire 2013 experiment failed; the $100M+ that was spent on all the marketing, broadcast innovation, etc. was a huge waste.  In other words, that they believe they simply cannot achieve the goals Larry has expressed at a cost he can stomach; to get a reasonable portion of the American public interested in the AC, to show the world how exciting sailing can be, to use the sport's biggest event to help bring it back from the historic participatory lows that it has been experiencing.  Never mind that it was not fate that dictated the failure of the 2013 experiment - it was incompetence, cronyism, and a disturbing level of hubris or naiveté (or both) about how things work in the USA.

 

Bermuda is a cynical choice that says "We know we can get the big spenders to Bermuda, charge them out the ass for everything, focus our marketing dollars and partner hunting resources on superyacht owners and charterers, Robb Report subscribers, and the kind of sponsors who are barely interested in branding and exposure at all because they only need to bring in a few dozen of their biggest spenders to meet their ROI requirements."  The problem is that there simply are not enough rich people in the world to give real electricity and buzz to an event.  Without numbers, you don't get major media, and those you get will reinforce the perception of sailing as the whitest, richest, least accessible sport outside of dressage.  Or the Winter Olympics.



#73 ~Stingray~

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:21 AM

If there was some brilliantly constructive insight in that post, among all the usual we-know-better bashing, then I must have missed it?

 

Face it: There is some massive problem that you on the FP have with the AC, that you simply can't get your head around to the point that you can even recognize it. Instead, you just pull more ugly shit out of your asses, then fling it.

 

Seriously, it's not 'Anarchistic' or cool in any other way either. It's just a really stupid look you have going on when it comes to anything AC. 



#74 miscut jib

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:26 AM

The really stupid look is carrying water for the joke of an AC. Because this new cup is the same shit that nobody except die-hards care about that's bored people for mostly forever. Oracle win's AC34 is massively dramatic fashion, says they'll work on San Francisco again, and they've lined up someone and a when. Except they didn't really ever play on SF again, the COR isn't real, and they don't really know the when. It's a steady diet of ... nothing to the media. So no regular joes care. They lose all the interest they built up, so they'll have to build it up again, but almost certainly won't.

 

Eesh those World Cups and Olympics everyone was comparing to? They've a regular when.



#75 ~Stingray~

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:37 AM

Yes, we are in what's an unfortunately typical hiatus, an early period between Cups when normal people lose interest, many of the remainder get frustrated and anxious, and even die-hards get a little bored. Racing and other developments will hopefully cure a lot, in time.

But that's not what I'm taking the FP to task for. I'm not asking them or anyone to 'carry water' for anyone else, am simply pointing to the very obvious 'smarter than thou' completely baseless clap-trap.

I posted an innocuous link recently about some new branding agency; it got picked up by Sail-World, later by others; and eventually by SA who, instead of calling the person quoted, at the company explicitly named, to get something fun, instead posted some more unfounded vitriol instead. And you have to look at that and go: Wth is their problem? Nobody else took it that way, it's borderline absurd.

#76 Editor

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:45 AM

And holding it in dago is smarter than thou?

#77 dogwatch

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 04:07 AM

If there was some brilliantly constructive insight in that post, among all the usual we-know-better bashing, then I must have missed it?

 
I thought it was reasonably well expressed, although the idea that anything LE could do would make the AC could convey an impression other than sailing being a rich man's sport is utterly unrealistic.
 
AFAIK there's nobody at all on SAAC who is based in SD and thinks it would make a good sailing venue for the AC. What does that rare unanimity tell us?

#78 dogwatch

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 04:33 AM

 Wth is their problem? Nobody else took it that way, it's borderline absurd.

 

Of course. What's wrong with AC35 is a problem of branding. 100 focus groups, a bit of number-crunching and a nice PowerPoint or two and we'll be back in the land of a dozen challengers and venues throwing suitcases of cash at visiting ACEA dignitaries. How could anyone point and laugh at a re-branding exercise for the AC?

 

SR, there are three people left on SAAC who still think AC35 is on track and two of those are probably sock-puppets. You are the Hiroo Onoda of the Oracle Racing true faith. Look him up.



#79 DA-WOODY

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    COUGARS COUGARS & More COUGARS

Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:05 AM

Wholey Shit did I pic a bad day to be busy all day  :o

 

 

Halloween-dessrts-white-chocolate-popcor



#80 SW Sailor

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:46 AM

 Wth is their problem? Nobody else took it that way, it's borderline absurd.

 

Of course. What's wrong with AC35 is a problem of branding. 100 focus groups, a bit of number-crunching and a nice PowerPoint or two and we'll be back in the land of a dozen challengers and venues throwing suitcases of cash at visiting ACEA dignitaries. How could anyone point and laugh at a re-branding exercise for the AC?

 

SR, there are three people left on SAAC who still think AC35 is on track and two of those are probably sock-puppets. You are the Hiroo Onoda of the Oracle Racing true faith. Look him up.

And their were less than three people that thought at the beginning that AC34 would produce a good series.

 

How soon we forget when it conveniently supports a biased opinion, venue included.



#81 MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:07 AM


 


 Wth is their problem? Nobody else took it that way, it's borderline absurd.

 

Of course. What's wrong with AC35 is a problem of branding. 100 focus groups, a bit of number-crunching and a nice PowerPoint or two and we'll be back in the land of a dozen challengers and venues throwing suitcases of cash at visiting ACEA dignitaries. How could anyone point and laugh at a re-branding exercise for the AC?

 

SR, there are three people left on SAAC who still think AC35 is on track and two of those are probably sock-puppets. You are the Hiroo Onoda of the Oracle Racing true faith. Look him up.

And their - there - ?   :lol:  were less than three people that thought at the beginning that AC34 would produce a good series.and they were right -ggyc cheated -

 

How soon we forget when it conveniently supports a biased opinion - true- , venue included.

 

including the ggyc cover up w cayard on the manslaughter of simpson 

 

now SF doesnt want to be corn hole = host city 

 

ggyc is a lost cause but larza bailed them out and coutts is running the ggyc circus now - and doing a great job -right strawray ? 

 

straw man/ aka spinray=strawray  / aka soiler / [aka aholes 1 & 2]  is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument-- true 


#82 floater

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:10 AM

If there was some brilliantly constructive insight in that post, among all the usual we-know-better bashing, then I must have missed it?
 
Face it: There is some massive problem that you on the FP have with the AC, that you simply can't get your head around to the point that you can even recognize it. Instead, you just pull more ugly shit out of your asses, then fling it.
 
Seriously, it's not 'Anarchistic' or cool in any other way either. It's just a really stupid look you have going on when it comes to anything AC. 

can't explain the self-defeating chip on the shoulder that the FP carried all through AC34 - no doubt to their everlasting regret. But ACEA's behavior to date is frankly appalling.

For example, do you think TT would shop the venue?

It's just so absurd - one of the worlds wealthiest men grubbing for loose change. In a word - it's simply not sportsmanlike.

Neither RC nor LE appear to be sportsmen. Instead, they are visibly exploiting one of the oldest traditions in sport for personal gain.

But hey - I'm biased - I live here.

#83 SW Sailor

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:14 AM

 


 


 Wth is their problem? Nobody else took it that way, it's borderline absurd.

 

Of course. What's wrong with AC35 is a problem of branding. 100 focus groups, a bit of number-crunching and a nice PowerPoint or two and we'll be back in the land of a dozen challengers and venues throwing suitcases of cash at visiting ACEA dignitaries. How could anyone point and laugh at a re-branding exercise for the AC?

 

SR, there are three people left on SAAC who still think AC35 is on track and two of those are probably sock-puppets. You are the Hiroo Onoda of the Oracle Racing true faith. Look him up.

And their - there - ?   :lol:  were less than three people that thought at the beginning that AC34 would produce a good series.and they were right -ggyc cheated -

 

How soon we forget when it conveniently supports a biased opinion - true- , venue included.

 

including the ggyc cover up w cayard on the manslaughter of simpson 

 

now SF doesnt want to be corn hole = host city 

 

ggyc is a lost cause but larza bailed them out and coutts is running the ggyc circus now - and doing a great job -right strawray ? 

 

straw man/ aka spinray=strawray  / aka soiler / [aka aholes 1 & 2]  is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of an opponent's argument-- true 

And you, the first class bozo of all bozo's said the event would never take place, or have you forgotten just how much BS you constantly spew ?

 

I guess AC34 never happened if you had your head up your ass the whole time :lol:

 

Any stellar predictions for AC35 Nostradamus :) ? Anyone going to jail as you predicted so many times before ?



#84 Xlot

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:56 AM

I posted an innocuous link recently about some new branding agency; it got picked up by Sail-World, later by others; and eventually by SA who, instead of calling the person quoted, at the company explicitly named, to get something fun, instead posted some more unfounded vitriol instead. And you have to look at that and go: Wth is their problem? Nobody else took it that way, it's borderline absurd.


Well, not quite: it seems Italian media's moratorium due to LR's apparent acquiescence is over, and there's this broadside on the Vento&Vele blog - which btw is hosted by Gazzetta dello Sport, Italy's largest circulation sports daily

http://ventoevele.gazzetta.it/

I may post a translation later on if I have the time, suffice to say it begins with "A farce called the America's Cup" ..

#85 MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:07 AM

I posted an innocuous link recently about some new branding agency; it got picked up by Sail-World, later by others; and eventually by SA who, instead of calling the person quoted, at the company explicitly named, to get something fun, instead posted some more unfounded vitriol instead. And you have to look at that and go: Wth is their problem? Nobody else took it that way, it's borderline absurd.


Well, not quite: it seems Italian media's moratorium due to LR's apparent acquiescence is over, and there's this broadside on the Vento&Vele blog - which btw is hosted by Gazzetta dello Sport, Italy's largest circulation sports daily

http://ventoevele.gazzetta.it/

I may post a translation later on if I have the time, suffice to say it begins with "A farce called the America's Cup" ..
But the America's Cup is a farce?

10420289_682813741809885_668568255047966A farce called the America's Cup. While a handful of autostipendiati is a lot to do these days to claim that the 6 members in the next edition are a great sign for a bright future of the former most important race in the world, in the same hours from the control room of the event 2 out pearls. The first a request for 10,000 nights / free rooms (plus other 7500 half price) to the city of San Diego to host the event. A number, which as to be distributed over two years, is out of range unless you think of "selling" to sponsor those spaces ... creating a carnival traded in pieces, rather than a sporting event. The second pearl (pictured announcement) covers the task given to a New York agency to develop "a new brand strategy." Yes, you read right: the brand America's Cup is to be repositioned according to the holders themselves. Let's recap: a Regatta to be held not know where and do not know when, do not even know who he is and where he wants to go. After having repeated for months which televised the last edition was a little less than a triumph it turns out that no American city believes that triumph and is a candidate to host the next edition. Then we hear Freddy Loof, one of the best sailors in circulation that became part of the team Artemis says more or less: "I'm happy and thrilled. I followed the experience of Artemis in San Francisco and is a great honor for me to be here. " For real? Artemis despite being the representative of the challengers failed to be on the starting line of a race in which he was writing for 2 years. A San Francisco has lost virtually all of the races in which he participated demonstrating an almost unprecedented sgangheratezza organization (the almost unattainable for Mascalzone Latino is the 2000 edition). Now, one of the best sailors in the world as Loof knows everything. But it omits. Why he came to sit at the banquet of the America's Cup farce. Where the meter runs for sailors along with the counter crap that we have to listen. 
Luca Bontempelli



#86 MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:08 AM

A farce called the America's Cup. :lol: 



#87 dogwatch

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:11 AM

For example, do you think TT would shop the venue?

Yes I do. Though I hope he doesn't as Stockholm is my favourite capital city.

I spent a day on the water with a KSSS member recently. Basically, there is sod-all connection between Artemis and KSSS as far as he was concerned.

#88 Estar

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:42 AM

For example, do you think TT would shop the venue?

Yes I do. Though I hope he doesn't as Stockholm is my favourite capital city.

I spent a day on the water with a KSSS member recently. Basically, there is sod-all connection between Artemis and KSSS as far as he was concerned.

Absolutely correct - even less than between OR and GGYC - I am actually a 'foreign honorary member' of KSSS (I ran a business in gothenberg for a couple years) and can (but usually don't) fly their burgee. 



#89 floater

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 03:05 PM

Sportsmanship:
Sportsmanship (or sometimes sportspersonship) is an aspiration or ethos that a sport or activity will be enjoyed for its own sake, with proper consideration for fairness, ethics, respect, and a sense of fellowship with one's competitors.

#90 floater

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 03:12 PM

Whatever faults TT has in his business dealings - Id like to think that he can separate his sailing from his business.

FFS! The two aren't exactly compatible anyway!

On the water, I guess RC is the consummate sportsman. But what he is doing now - sullying his own name - and bringing Larry down with him.

#91 dogwatch

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 03:12 PM

You do sport. I do sport. ACEA wants to be in show business.

#92 floater

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 04:29 PM


You do sport. I do sport. ACEA wants to be in show business.

He's conquered Everest - and now he wants to open a fruit stand on the summit.

#93 lurker54

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:31 PM

Absolutely correct - even less than between OR and GGYC - I am actually a 'foreign honorary member' of KSSS (I ran a business in gothenberg for a couple years) and can (but usually don't) fly their burgee. 

 

Gothenburg? Are you sure you are not confusing GKSS and KSSS?



#94 SellingSailing

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:37 PM

If there was some brilliantly constructive insight in that post, among all the usual we-know-better bashing, then I must have missed it?
 
Face it: There is some massive problem that you on the FP have with the AC, that you simply can't get your head around to the point that you can even recognize it. Instead, you just pull more ugly shit out of your asses, then fling it.
 
Seriously, it's not 'Anarchistic' or cool in any other way either. It's just a really stupid look you have going on when it comes to anything AC. 

can't explain the self-defeating chip on the shoulder that the FP carried all through AC34 - no doubt to their everlasting regret. But ACEA's behavior to date is frankly appalling.

For example, do you think TT would shop the venue?

It's just so absurd - one of the worlds wealthiest men grubbing for loose change. In a word - it's simply not sportsmanlike.

Neither RC nor LE appear to be sportsmen. Instead, they are visibly exploiting one of the oldest traditions in sport for personal gain.

But hey - I'm biased - I live here.

If personal gain is the goal,  they're failing at that as well..



#95 axolotl

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:17 PM

holy fuck mate yourself; look at the hotel stats above, and look at SD's solid AC history , while i quietly go find the long list of endless effing drivel that We at the fp post when it comes to anything ac.

SA's coverage of the AC is ~at best~ stupidly drama-queen, reflecting only that mirror.

 

Is this the sort of "Solid AC history" about San Diego to which you refer?  

 

(From the LA Times archives)

 

 

America's Cup Debt Payment Plan Offered : Regatta: Proposal is designed to keep cash-strapped organizing committee from being forced into bankruptcy.
July 14, 1992|MARK PLATTE and GREG JOHNSON | TIMES STAFF WRITERS

Anxious to keep from falling into involuntary bankruptcy, the America's Cup Organizing Committee presented creditors with its plan Monday for satisfying $3.3 million in debt from this year's races.

In a closed-door meeting, organizers and representatives of the San Diego Wholesale Credit Assn. distributed the repayment plan on behalf of the committee as well as its marketing arm, America's Cup Services, and its predecessor, Sail America Foundation for International Understanding.

pixel.gif

Under the financial reorganization, tax obligations and secured creditors will be paid first, and "it is anticipated" in full, according to the written synopsis given vendors.

About 117 unsecured creditors, all of whom have claims of $1,000 or less, will be paid 75% of their total. The creditors are owed a total $32,000 but will be paid $24,000, according to the plan.

Twenty other creditors, with claims of $1,000 to $2,500, will be paid half what they are owed, or about $17,000. The remaining unsecured creditors will received "a proportionate share of the remaining assets," the statement says.

Some creditors will be paid by the San Diego Unified Port District, which gave the ACOC about $8 million to run the regatta. Race organizers had asked for $20 million.

A summary statement of the organization's assets and liabilities shows that the ACOC has yet to pay off a $2-million loan from First National Bank. That loan is of special interest to creditors because ACOC President Malin Burnham is also chairman of the bank. If the loan is secured, vendors fear it will take precedence over their demands.

Monday's financial presentation was a means of escaping court-imposed bankruptcy proceedings, which could be initiated by any creditor owed money. Should that happen, a court could wrest control of the ACOC from its management team. Cash-strapped firms often try to settle disagreements out of court speedily, to cut legal costs.

The disclosure of the $3.3-million debt is the latest in a long series of embarrassments for the ACOC. Since 1988, ACOC has consistently overestimated revenues and underestimated expenses.

In addition, the ACOC was mired from the beginning in a legal battle with Australian Michael Fay over when and where the race would be staged. The lawsuit was eventually settled, but resulted in a race mismatch between Fay's so-called "The Big Boat" and Dennis Conner's swift catamaran, which easily defeated Fay.

The yacht races themselves were criticized for being too far removed from the general public, fueling the perception that the sport is elitist. Ironically, this year's races--in which the America 3 syndicate defended the Cup by defeating Il Moro di Venezia of Italy--were a huge success in other parts of the world while of little interest to most San Diegans.

The idea that money would pour into the city from the race this year failed to materialize when just eight syndicates took part in the regatta rather than the 12 or 13 expected. The world recession made it difficult for international travelers to visit San Diego, and hindered ACOC's ability to wring cash from corporate sponsors.

Of course the Micheal Fay DOG Challenge was a loser.  Heck, I lived in Newport Beach at the time, and I didn't bother driving down to watch it.  OTOH, the three other Cups held in San Diego were fantastic; slip your boat somewhere and stay on it, motor out to view the Races, hang around town on lay days doing touristy stuff.  Even caught an A-Cup boat at 2:00 in the morning out testing sails north of Point Loma.



#96 floater

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 01:48 AM


holy fuck mate yourself; look at the hotel stats above, and look at SD's solid AC history , while i quietly go find the long list of endless effing drivel that We at the fp post when it comes to anything ac.

SA's coverage of the AC is ~at best~ stupidly drama-queen, reflecting only that mirror.

 
Is this the sort of "Solid AC history" about San Diego to which you refer?  
 
(From the LA Times archives)
 
 
America's Cup Debt Payment Plan Offered : Regatta: Proposal is designed to keep cash-strapped organizing committee from being forced into bankruptcy.

July 14, 1992|MARK PLATTE and GREG JOHNSON | TIMES STAFF WRITERS


Anxious to keep from falling into involuntary bankruptcy, the America's Cup Organizing Committee presented creditors with its plan Monday for satisfying $3.3 million in debt from this year's races.

In a closed-door meeting, organizers and representatives of the San Diego Wholesale Credit Assn. distributed the repayment plan on behalf of the committee as well as its marketing arm, America's Cup Services, and its predecessor, Sail America Foundation for International Understanding.

pixel.gif


Under the financial reorganization, tax obligations and secured creditors will be paid first, and "it is anticipated" in full, according to the written synopsis given vendors.

About 117 unsecured creditors, all of whom have claims of $1,000 or less, will be paid 75% of their total. The creditors are owed a total $32,000 but will be paid $24,000, according to the plan.

Twenty other creditors, with claims of $1,000 to $2,500, will be paid half what they are owed, or about $17,000. The remaining unsecured creditors will received "a proportionate share of the remaining assets," the statement says.

Some creditors will be paid by the San Diego Unified Port District, which gave the ACOC about $8 million to run the regatta. Race organizers had asked for $20 million.

A summary statement of the organization's assets and liabilities shows that the ACOC has yet to pay off a $2-million loan from First National Bank. That loan is of special interest to creditors because ACOC President Malin Burnham is also chairman of the bank. If the loan is secured, vendors fear it will take precedence over their demands.

Monday's financial presentation was a means of escaping court-imposed bankruptcy proceedings, which could be initiated by any creditor owed money. Should that happen, a court could wrest control of the ACOC from its management team. Cash-strapped firms often try to settle disagreements out of court speedily, to cut legal costs.

The disclosure of the $3.3-million debt is the latest in a long series of embarrassments for the ACOC. Since 1988, ACOC has consistently overestimated revenues and underestimated expenses.

In addition, the ACOC was mired from the beginning in a legal battle with Australian Michael Fay over when and where the race would be staged. The lawsuit was eventually settled, but resulted in a race mismatch between Fay's so-called "The Big Boat" and Dennis Conner's swift catamaran, which easily defeated Fay.

The yacht races themselves were criticized for being too far removed from the general public, fueling the perception that the sport is elitist. Ironically, this year's races--in which the America 3 syndicate defended the Cup by defeating Il Moro di Venezia of Italy--were a huge success in other parts of the world while of little interest to most San Diegans.

The idea that money would pour into the city from the race this year failed to materialize when just eight syndicates took part in the regatta rather than the 12 or 13 expected. The world recession made it difficult for international travelers to visit San Diego, and hindered ACOC's ability to wring cash from corporate sponsors.
Of course the Micheal Fay DOG Challenge was a loser.  Heck, I lived in Newport Beach at the time, and I didn't bother driving down to watch it.  OTOH, the three other Cups held in San Diego were fantastic; slip your boat somewhere and stay on it, motor out to view the Races, hang around town on lay days doing touristy stuff.  Even caught an A-Cup boat at 2:00 in the morning out testing sails north of Point Loma.
it was nice to be there. But truly difficult to observe much from the water - the courses so huge and the splits got pretty wide.

I was on a rather small slow boat though...




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