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What to do with a complete half wit on the boat


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#1 Mr. Ed

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 04:55 PM

So what's the post-regatta debriefing to be when one person on the crew has completely let everyone down? When he was helming the boat went aground (repeatedly), and was heroically late for the starts; when navigating he missed marks and led the boat aground (again); when doing sail handling he failed to get the topsail up at all, (after four efforts), and when doing the shopping forgot the coffee. 

I can't even just drop him from the crew, because it was me.

What an awful weekend - never sailed so badly in all my life. I don't care about results, but I do care about sailing well, and I was terrible: talk about lions led by a donkey.

Anyone have any moral recipes to get over it? 

We're sailing again next weekend, and the way I feel right now I'd as soon call it off.



#2 Just a Skosh

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:01 PM

get wasted to forget it, then do better next weekend.



#3 Schnick

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:01 PM

I find I over-apologize after a bad performance as skipper.  Say you're sorry once, tell those who understand what you're going to do to make it better next time, and practice until you stop sucking.



#4 BobJ

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:02 PM

Topsail?  Is it a gaffer?

 

I suggest a couple classes at J World before you try any more racing.  The other boats on the course will appreciate it and so will your insurance company.



#5 hobot

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:02 PM

Yup, one lost weekend help you forget.

#6 BlondeWithFreeBoat

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:12 PM

Aww, this post makes me want to give you a giant hug!!

I think any reasonable crew will accept a sincere apology from a skipper and move on from there, albeit with a new arsenal of jokes and humiliating stories to tell at the bar. Seriously though, I know of certain skippers who simply cannot admit when they're wrong, or apologize for it, and it is infuriating sometimes. If you are willing and able to list out all those things you screwed up and apologize for them like you did here, during the debriefing, I'd be shocked if your crew didn't want to give you a hug and hand you a drink, too (then take the wheel so you don't run aground again on the way into the harbor) ;)

#7 Canal Bottom

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:15 PM

So what's the post-regatta debriefing to be when one person on the crew has completely let everyone down? When he was helming the boat went aground (repeatedly), and was heroically late for the starts; when navigating he missed marks and led the boat aground (again); when doing sail handling he failed to get the topsail up at all, (after four efforts), and when doing the shopping forgot the coffee. 

I can't even just drop him from the crew, because it was me.

What an awful weekend - never sailed so badly in all my life. I don't care about results, but I do care about sailing well, and I was terrible: talk about lions led by a donkey.

Anyone have any moral recipes to get over it? 

We're sailing again next weekend, and the way I feel right now I'd as soon call it off.

 

 

Hire a coach or teacher for the boat with the 1st standing order to professional focus on you.   Did you learn football, basketball, writing, algebra by yourself?  If you think you did? How good are you at it?  Why would anyone think they can learn yacht racing by themselves while teaching the rest of the crew?



#8 WarBird

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:19 PM

Let your crew help you be a better skipper. Give or email crew charts of the area. Note then shoals and shallow. Number them. I hit this one first that one second etc. Ask them to help keep you off them in the future. You will have anlaugh when they say " #2 ahead to port" .

#9 BobJ

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:20 PM

Yes, humility is good and all too rare these days.  But next weekend, if you find yourself approaching a mark with four other boats do you know who has right-of-way and what you should do?  If not, I hope I'm not one of the other boats.  Take some classes please.



#10 NYBOZO1

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:21 PM

I would jump from the spreaders and impale myself on the spinnaker pole for all to see.

 

Best to have your crew prop up the pole, as you would certainly screw it up.

 

RIP



#11 Mr. Ed

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:22 PM

Look, it's not that I can't sail, just that I couldn't that weekend.

Everything I did badly I've done perfectly well before.

Even the shopping.

I think it's my monthlies. Have none of you had a weekend when nothing goes right?

But this is good therapy - being told I can't sail and to go to school is making me bristle with male hormones. I'm slowly hardening the fuck up. Keep going. This is fun.



#12 coyotepup

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:43 PM

We're sailing again next weekend, and the way I feel right now I'd as soon call it off.

 

All the more reason to get your ass back on the water next weekend.  Nothing like a bullet to make you forget a shitty weekend.  If you need to ease back into the routine, though, try just the shopping first and see how that goes. 



#13 RKoch

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:53 PM

Find another half-wit. Then you have a whole-wit.

#14 SailRacer

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:01 PM

A slipery slope, suggest you admit to less than everything you might have done wrong.

 

You pay the bills, and you are allowed to do pretty much whatever you want.

 

A good crew keeps you out of trouble.

 

Sail safe!



#15 two cold dogs

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:02 PM

you're never as good as your best days or as bad as your worst days, get over it.



#16 Hobie Dog

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:18 PM

Have none of you had a weekend when nothing goes right?

 

Mr, Ed, Negative, something always goes right! Did you manage to drink a beer and not spill it all over yourself? Bang, there you go something went right! And I am sure there are some things that went right with your sailing you just had a lot of things go wrong.

 

Like any sport you are going to have days when things just don't go as well as you wanted. If you are winning every race then you are not playing the game at the right level, move up.

 

Unless you are totally burned out and just need a little time away from the sport, does not sound like that, then yes get your ass back out there this weekend and get your game together! :D



#17 Norse Horse

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:22 PM

50 pushups for forgetting the coffee. In front of the lads.



#18 Reht

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:30 PM

Look, it's not that I can't sail, just that I couldn't that weekend.

Everything I did badly I've done perfectly well before.

Even the shopping.

I think it's my monthlies. Have none of you had a weekend when nothing goes right?

But this is good therapy - being told I can't sail and to go to school is making me bristle with male hormones. I'm slowly hardening the fuck up. Keep going. This is fun.

We've all had days/weekends/events where it seems that nothing goes right. I'm sure you can find at least a few moments of brilliance from your weekend.

 

If you really want to, have a chat with the crew, a quick apology and maybe some of them will open up about how they figured they screwed up. Take it in stride and go win a few races next weekend!



#19 Tack nazi

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:37 PM

1)Apologize (sounds like you already did) don't overdo apology, everyone fucks up.

 

2)Drink heavily.

 

3)Repeat step two.

 

4)Buy beer and rum instead of coffee. Also a couple of cigars in case things go bad again.

 

5)Repeat step two.



#20 Mike P

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:47 PM

Hookers for the crew as a form of making-up??



#21 WarBird

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 06:51 PM

Now you have boat stories that end with ".....then we heard crunch" I will bet that most of you still had a good time on the water sailing and learning together.

#22 couchsurfer

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:01 PM

get wasted to forget it, then do better  get crew wasted next weekend.

.

......fixerated  :)



#23 Rum Runner

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:12 PM

So what's the post-regatta debriefing to be when one person on the crew has completely let everyone down? When he was helming the boat went aground (repeatedly), and was heroically late for the starts; when navigating he missed marks and led the boat aground (again); when doing sail handling he failed to get the topsail up at all, (after four efforts), and when doing the shopping forgot the coffee. 

I can't even just drop him from the crew, because it was me.

What an awful weekend - never sailed so badly in all my life. I don't care about results, but I do care about sailing well, and I was terrible: talk about lions led by a donkey.

Anyone have any moral recipes to get over it? 

We're sailing again next weekend, and the way I feel right now I'd as soon call it off.

 

Sailing is a team sport.  You have to work together.  Think about what the others should to make your job easier and how you can work better together.  



#24 Folding prop

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:38 PM

Give him a Sailing Anarchy shirt.



#25 Drop Bear.

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:46 PM

And you forgot the post race debrief!

 

That was your worst error!   :D

 

Post race debrief should clear the air and give everyone a chance to decide what the team can do better - no blame involved

 

Just a list of things that could have been better. People admitting what they could have done better etc.



#26 couchsurfer

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:58 PM

And you forgot the post race debrief!

 

That was your worst error!   :D

 

Post race debrief should clear the air and give everyone a chance to decide what the team can do better - no blame involved

 

Just a list of things that could have been better. Crew voting owner off the boat etc.

.

.....yes



#27 Foghorn77

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:00 PM

It's all your crew's fault. After you forgot the coffee they should have gone on strike. So in essence you only screwed up once.



#28 Lorax

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:07 PM

Why is the same person doing helm, navigating, handling a topsail, and galley wench?

When I teach cruising one of my favorite test questions asks whether a good skipper steers, navigates, and trims sails? The answer and lesson was no, the skipper is responsible for all of those things getting done, absolutely not doing all of those things themselves.
Identifying strengths and weaknesses, delegating, overseeing, and finally building a solid enough team that you completely trust everyone to do their jobs so well that you're just sitting there chasing strings, or staring at gribs, or whatever. ONE job gets you off is my goal on any big boat.

I sometimes race on a fast 30 footer with an owner who is known for running forward and doing stuff on the bow while driving. He is an excellent sailor but I know the race is fucked and the crew not working right when that happens.

#29 unShirley

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:09 PM

Mr. Ed, on 26 Aug 2014 - 10:02, said:
So what's the post-regatta debriefing to be when one person on the crew has completely let everyone down? When he was helming the boat went aground (repeatedly), and was heroically late for the starts; when navigating he missed marks and led the boat aground (again); when doing sail handling he failed to get the topsail up at all, (after four efforts), and when doing the shopping forgot the coffee.
I can't even just drop him from the crew, because it was me.
What an awful weekend - never sailed so badly in all my life. I don't care about results, but I do care about sailing well, and I was terrible: talk about lions led by a donkey.
Anyone have any moral recipes to get over it?
We're sailing again next weekend, and the way I feel right now I'd as soon call it off.

Do you feel better now?
Did your therapist tire of your pity party and refer you to SA?

Moral recipe: acknowledge, learn, move on

#30 bhyde

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:22 PM

Single-handing seems to work for me. Nobody knows how bad you f'ed up but you.



#31 Mr. Ed

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:25 PM

I've just looked up self-pity in the "Skipper's Medical Handbook". Not a pretty narrative. 



#32 TQA

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:30 PM

Man up admit it offer to commit ritual suicide.

 

If that fails

 

 

Attached Files



#33 ojfd

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:59 PM

And you forgot the post race debrief!
 
That was your worst error!   :D
 
Post race debrief should clear the air and give everyone a chance to decide what the team can do better - no blame involved
 
Just a list of things that could have been better. People admitting what they could have done better etc.


This!
Get over it and good luck next time!

#34 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:01 PM

Hookers for the crew as a form of making-up??


Best response yet. And probably the most useful.

#35 unShirley

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:12 PM

Single-handing seems to work for me. Nobody knows how bad you f'ed up but you.

yeah...what he said

except I tend to tell everybody how bad I f'ed up. You know, excuses, excuses....

#36 Mr. Ed

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:13 PM

Hookers for all the crew would be tricky, but might make the basis of a decent movie.

 

Mum, 86 years old;

wife same undisclosed age as me;

female friend of wife, same age as self; 

friend of friend, female, c. 70 years old;

bloke, same age as self 

his girlfriend, same u.a.a.h.

 

That makes an interesting group of hookers to try and hire

 

 

As you can gather, this was not serious racing.



#37 Rushman

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:28 PM

If everyone returns to the dock with the same number of fingers and toes that they started with... Good day

#38 Norse Horse

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:39 PM

Watch Mum pull rank. You will have to out flank her. Put her back on spinnaker ...



#39 madboutcats

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:28 PM

Why wouldn't you go out next week, how can the next race not be better?



#40 CrushDigital

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:40 PM

Aww, this post makes me want to give you a giant hug!!

I think any reasonable crew will accept a sincere apology from a skipper and move on from there, albeit with a new arsenal of jokes and humiliating stories to tell at the bar. Seriously though, I know of certain skippers who simply cannot admit when they're wrong, or apologize for it, and it is infuriating sometimes. If you are willing and able to list out all those things you screwed up and apologize for them like you did here, during the debriefing, I'd be shocked if your crew didn't want to give you a hug and hand you a drink, too (then take the wheel so you don't run aground again on the way into the harbor) ;)

 

I feel like you're talking about me...

 

It's not that I'm wrong, it's that I'm improperly correct  :blink:



#41 Presuming Ed

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:42 PM

Three boat rules.

1) No shouting.

2) No swearing.

3) One apology per fuck up. Forget it and move on.

Buy a round for the crew, and use it as a reminder not to do it again.

#42 Flatbag

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 11:22 PM

Simply explain to your crew that you just provided them with a deliberate lesson in how not to do things. They will thank you for it.

And if that doesn't work there is always the traditional method; apportion blame elsewhere; it's kind of how sailing works!

 

Or just get drunk: alcohol is the universal fuck-up solvent



#43 Autonomous

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 11:41 PM

Single-handing seems to work for me. Nobody knows how bad you f'ed up but you.

And the boats you ran into...



#44 Slim

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:06 AM

Based on your humility here I'd crew for you in a heartbeat and we would have a blast.

Don't sweat it, Skip.

Joel

#45 dash34

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:19 AM

Takes a while to get your confidence back up after a disaster like that.  Just give yourself some time.  If you have properly apologized to your crew (dinner, booze, free boat shirts - after all you want them to come back) then just don't worry about it.  Try hard to do better next time.  Be conservative with your sailing - don't take unnecessary risks, such as pushing the beach on an upwind looking for the shore lift - for a while until your confidence is back.  



#46 Chris 249

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:27 AM

Why is the same person doing helm, navigating, handling a topsail, and galley wench?

 

'Cause it's fun to do lots of different jobs, it keeps people interested and involved, and it gives valuable skills and perspective.

 

Personally, I really enjoy doing tactics while running the bow, even on my own boat. It puts the guy calling the shots right in the firing line for some moves (so no one makes unrealistic calls) and being on the rail in front without the distraction of trimming or steering, can give you the time to concentrate on tactics. Plus it's fun to be able to watch your boat in action, and when your crew don't know the boat it's good to have someone who does who is not stuck behind the tiller.

 

And the crew really appreciate an owner who will pass the beer and make coffee. In my case that's good 'cause normally a lot of bits have fallen off the boat during a race, so I need to make it up to them.



#47 Chris 249

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:28 AM

Based on your humility here I'd crew for you in a heartbeat and we would have a blast.

Don't sweat it, Skip.

Joel

 

/\

 

Well said. Ed sounds like the sort of guy I'd really enjoy racing with.



#48 JoeVanGeaux

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:38 AM

So, lemme get this right... you forgot the coffee!!!  Un-frickin-forgivable!!

 

As for the sailing, tell the crew it was a test of their character and you are trying to build a good team... and good team members will always speak up.  Fire them all and go for option #21!

 

Okay, that was a bit half-hearted but seriously, make your mistakes while single-handing amongst a fleet of fully crewed boats...everybody loves the underdog and if you screw up nobody can really fault you!



#49 Dorado

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:53 AM

First of all, get a sock puppet that sounds similar to a well loved poster here.

 

Then start a thread that will be cannon fodder for the usual suspects.

 

something like . . .

 

 

 

Edspo Sucks !

 

 

May not do you any good but we'll all get a chuckle out of it.

 

Then file it under INH  :mellow: 



#50 JumpingJax

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 04:53 AM

  • Never apologize.  It shows weakness. 
  • Always carry a knife.  It has to be sharp to do any good. 
  • Never make eye contact with a bow man.  It will destroy your confidence. 
  • Stay on the pointless end.  You're not ready for the important duties up front. 
  • Let your daughter buy the grub.  She knows what the bow man likes. 


#51 bigrpowr

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 05:00 AM

pretty good thread . good on you to take accountability for it. above all your crew needs to hear the same shit.

#52 Alcatraz5768

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 05:17 AM

When I fucked up a whole prestart ( we went home after ramming the committee boat and holing our boat) I just pulled the boat out of the water and chopped it up with a chainsaw. Even got a couple of crew members to help me, worked out great.

#53 Mr. Ed

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:10 AM

Presuming Ed is right. The very best sailing lesson I ever had was from Mrs Ed (that's my Mrs. Ed, not his)
We got together about ten years ago and sailing was part of the deal "but no racing, I've seem what it does to people".
After a couple of years the subject came up again and she cautiously agreed "but if you shout at me once it's off, and I won't do it in bad weather". Within two years, we were winning races: one wet windy Wednesday night race (when we were winning the series) she burst out laughing from the bow. She was racing, was wet to her knickers, and loving it.
We're the most please and thank you boat you can imagine now, have no problem getting crew, and are often quite fast. Haven't stopped swearing, but it's all directed out of the boat. The only good point last weekend was when another boat was doing something inexplicable, vexing and potentially hazardous: I've got a loud voice and my bellow "For fuck's sake, Sir" broke up the fleet and the crew.
That reminds me of my favourite memory of sailing with Mrs Ed: after a great start I launched a clusterfuck and formally apologised to the team as we put the whole thing back together again. The funny moment came when I let it all go at an undeserving angling boat who had given some very modest teasing "You can take your fucking rods and stick them up your fucking arses!". I then turned back to the crew (and picked up the tiller) for approval, to be met by a group looking at their fingernails and the cloud formations in embarrassment.



#54 European Bloke

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 08:42 AM

Why is the same person doing helm, navigating, handling a topsail, and galley wench?

When I teach cruising one of my favorite test questions asks whether a good skipper steers, navigates, and trims sails? The answer and lesson was no, the skipper is responsible for all of those things getting done, absolutely not doing all of those things themselves.
Identifying strengths and weaknesses, delegating, overseeing, and finally building a solid enough team that you completely trust everyone to do their jobs so well that you're just sitting there chasing strings, or staring at gribs, or whatever. ONE job gets you off is my goal on any big boat.

I sometimes race on a fast 30 footer with an owner who is known for running forward and doing stuff on the bow while driving. He is an excellent sailor but I know the race is fucked and the crew not working right when that happens.

This is the answer.

 

Let some of the others do some more stuff.  Pick what you're going to do, either drive, or do the nav or trim and drag sails about.  Nominate others to do the other jobs.  Concentrate on your job.

 

It's one thing if a proper rock star runs around doing everything, and that's still annoying for the crew, but if some prick's making an arse of everything then it's no fun for anyone.



#55 Snaggletooth

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:40 PM

 "For fuck's sake, Sir" broke up the fleet and the crew.


 "You can take your fucking rods and stick them up your fucking arses!".

You yelle this oute to orther boates??

 

Majore faille.



#56 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 12:46 PM

Seriously, the coach is a great asset if you get the right one.  I'd suggest someone like  a JWorld or Offshore Sailing School instructor over a local pro because the pros are all pretty good racers but vary widely in ability to teach what they know.  You don't need a pro that comes aboard,  "takes over the boat, makes it go faster and when he leaves, no one learned anything.  What you need is someone who will allow the crew to set up the boat observe what is good and not and then walk you all through what he is seeing, why it's not ideal and the steps to change it for the better.  

 

Almost always, it's not one nitwit that screws stuff up.  Often, it's the driver trying to also run the boat, teach the crew, trim by proxy and then losing and SA so that you end up doing dumb stuff.  An onboard coach for a couple of sessions will raise the game of the boat, not just the nitwit.....



#57 CHAS

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:01 PM

Nero when he ordered one of his subjects cut his throat.        

 

Ok, maybe something less extreme.



#58 BlondeWithFreeBoat

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 03:28 PM

Hookers for all the crew would be tricky, but might make the basis of a decent movie.
 
Mum, 86 years old;
wife same undisclosed age as me;
female friend of wife, same age as self; 
friend of friend, female, c. 70 years old;
bloke, same age as self 
his girlfriend, same u.a.a.h.
 
That makes an interesting group of hookers to try and hire
 
 
As you can gather, this was not serious racing.


The answer is clearly Chippendales.

#59 haligonian winterr

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 04:45 PM

This. Good sailor =/= good teacher. Make sure you get a coach for more than a day, so you can do intensive debriefs and the coach can set up a plan for the second day. A dedicated weekend with a few weeknights on either end is the best that I've found to work.

 

HW

 

Seriously, the coach is a great asset if you get the right one.  I'd suggest someone like  a JWorld or Offshore Sailing School instructor over a local pro because the pros are all pretty good racers but vary widely in ability to teach what they know.  You don't need a pro that comes aboard,  "takes over the boat, makes it go faster and when he leaves, no one learned anything.  What you need is someone who will allow the crew to set up the boat observe what is good and not and then walk you all through what he is seeing, why it's not ideal and the steps to change it for the better.  

 

Almost always, it's not one nitwit that screws stuff up.  Often, it's the driver trying to also run the boat, teach the crew, trim by proxy and then losing and SA so that you end up doing dumb stuff.  An onboard coach for a couple of sessions will raise the game of the boat, not just the nitwit.....



#60 Jayavarman

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 05:07 PM

CPAP?

 

Seriously, if your normal game is good and this was a huge deviation, were you fatigued before you even left the dock?  

Obstructive sleep apnea is insidious.  

 

If no sleep problems then get back out on the water and upgrade the rations for the next outing.  

 

-Jaya



#61 blackjenner

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 05:21 PM

So what's the post-regatta debriefing to be when one person on the crew has completely let everyone down? When he was helming the boat went aground (repeatedly), and was heroically late for the starts; when navigating he missed marks and led the boat aground (again); when doing sail handling he failed to get the topsail up at all, (after four efforts), and when doing the shopping forgot the coffee. 

I can't even just drop him from the crew, because it was me.

What an awful weekend - never sailed so badly in all my life. I don't care about results, but I do care about sailing well, and I was terrible: talk about lions led by a donkey.

Anyone have any moral recipes to get over it? 

We're sailing again next weekend, and the way I feel right now I'd as soon call it off.

 

Admit it to the crew. No shit. Be honest. Ask them to step up, hold you accountable and help you get your act together.

 

Then thank them for doing so.

 

Stay classy.



#62 Mr. Ed

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 05:36 PM

So I'm going to adopt the SA crowd-sourced solution, and am going in there with my coach, my sleep apnoea mask, my hookers, my male strippers, and my big knife. I think I'll look quite the skipper going out like that . . .

 

Not sure if I can stop shouting at other boats though.



#63 Lex Teredo

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 05:38 PM

Options - any one of these, or a combination - is fine:

 

1) Don't worry about it. Move on. It was last night. Nobody will give a shit about it next week.  Just don't repeat the fuckup.

 

2) Make sure you bring beer - cold beer - for the crew next time, *and* make the coffee.  Anybody who does that on any boat gets lots of slack. If you really screw up, put some whiskey and cool whip in the coffee.  The bowsprit of a J- class yacht could be sticking through your stern and the crew would be thinking, "fuck, that was really good coffee." 

 

3) Do not make contact with the bowman's eyes, for the same reason you never get in a staring contest with a large dog or poisonous snake, or other dangerous animal.  Come to think of it, that's good advice all the time.

 

4) Yell at the trimmer.  This won't affect anything - it never affects anything, not even the trimmer - but the crew will know everything is back to normal and you're on your game. 



#64 Reht

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:16 PM

So I'm going to adopt the SA crowd-sourced solution, and am going in there with my coach, my sleep apnoea mask, my hookers, my male strippers, and my big knife. I think I'll look quite the skipper going out like that . . .

 

Not sure if I can stop shouting at other boats though.

Guaranteed to win with all that going on.

 

Go out and have fun, all those things have ways of being used to confuse, confound and remove opposition from the race, most of them good for a few laughs for your crew.



#65 hard aground

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 06:54 PM

Banging the owner's daughter probably isn't going to be the solution this time.



#66 SHNOOL

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:10 PM

:::Wow Bob thanks for that thought:::

 

Geesh I saw the topic and thought, sheesh but what about when the crew member that rots is me! 

You pretty much covered that, thanks.

 

I vote with getting the crew drunk, blame it on them once they are... then say Sorry yeah it was all me - but if I remember your damned coffee don't do it again!  That should sufficiently confuse them.



#67 RImike

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Posted 27 August 2014 - 07:15 PM

When sailing against another boat on a Wednesday night series in a small 30 foot daysailer. Right before the start, I saw a guy punch a chick right in the chest (with malicious intent). Well some guy picked up rocky and threw him off the boat and into the water, threw him an orange life jacket and told him find his own way back. The start was in the harbor and I think the guy swam to shore, never did see him ever again (at the yacht club) but knew he made it back to his car as it wasn't there anymore. 



#68 Flashbrah

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 04:24 AM

Have you gone for a dive down to the keel to apologise to him? That's the first order of business...



#69 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 04:29 AM

Look, it's not that I can't sail, just that I couldn't that weekend.

Everything I did badly I've done perfectly well before.

Even the shopping.

I think it's my monthlies. Have none of you had a weekend when nothing goes right?

But this is good therapy - being told I can't sail and to go to school is making me bristle with male hormones. I'm slowly hardening the fuck up. Keep going. This is fun.

put in a fresh tampon and get back out there skippy



#70 Reht

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 03:12 PM

Have you gone for a dive down to the keel to apologise to him? That's the first order of business...

+1

 

Especially if you were banging into rocks...



#71 By the lee

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 06:34 PM

.

Anyone have any moral recipes to get over it? 

 

Go for a sail with Rimus?



#72 D.M.D.

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 10:50 AM

Get everyone together and have a week day evening practice sail. You will need to point out your short comings in the race, and demonstrate that you do "know" what to do. Start off with coffee to set the tone of the sail. Remember, two half wits make one nit wit... Git 'er done............



#73 Sebyseb

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 11:04 AM

It's the great thing in boating: everone fucks-up one in a while and every dog has its day.

No need to apologise profusely, you'll fuck-up again, and so will everyone else.

the worse would be to neverfail, if you never get it wrong, then you don't try hard enough...



#74 JBSF

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 11:20 AM

A good crew keeps you out of trouble.

 

This was my first thought when I read the OP.... WTF was the crew doing during all this fucking up?  Either they are 1) not paying attention 2) not very good and/or inexperienced in the first place and don't know when you're fucking up or 3) you're an authoritarian skipper who takes no input from the crew and they keep their mouth shut.

 

If there are that many mistakes in race, especially ones that involve running aground and missing marks and going the wrong way..... your crew wasn't very involved.  At some point someone on the crew should have spoken up and gone..... "uhhhh, skip - I think we are going the wrong way".  

 

To the OP - you might want to do some serious introspection to see if there are any crew issues or skipper personality issues that need addressing.  Yeah, I get it - you had a bad day.  Shit happens - but to repeatedly make those mistakes means that the team wasn't functioning very well.  Best to figure out why rather than focus on individual mistakes.



#75 SemiSalt

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 05:01 PM

Why is the same person doing helm, navigating, handling a topsail, and galley wench?

When I teach cruising one of my favorite test questions asks whether a good skipper steers, navigates, and trims sails? The answer and lesson was no, the skipper is responsible for all of those things getting done, absolutely not doing all of those things themselves.
Identifying strengths and weaknesses, delegating, overseeing, and finally building a solid enough team that you completely trust everyone to do their jobs so well that you're just sitting there chasing strings, or staring at gribs, or whatever. ONE job gets you off is my goal on any big boat.
 

 

This.

 

I like doing helm, tactics, navigation and sail trim, and I'm better each of those things than my somewhat under-experienced crew. But I know the boat would be faster if there was more delegation of tasks. 

 

Any member of the crew can cause you to lose a race. It was just your turn. Many mistakes, but only one race.



#76 JBSF

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:27 AM

A good crew keeps you out of trouble.

 

This was my first thought when I read the OP.... WTF was the crew doing during all this fucking up?  Either they are 1) not paying attention 2) not very good and/or inexperienced in the first place and don't know when you're fucking up or 3) you're an authoritarian skipper who takes no input from the crew and they keep their mouth shut.

 

If there are that many mistakes in race, especially ones that involve running aground and missing marks and going the wrong way..... your crew wasn't very involved.  At some point someone on the crew should have spoken up and gone..... "uhhhh, skip - I think we are going the wrong way".  

 

To the OP - you might want to do some serious introspection to see if there are any crew issues or skipper personality issues that need addressing.  Yeah, I get it - you had a bad day.  Shit happens - but to repeatedly make those mistakes means that the team wasn't functioning very well.  Best to figure out why rather than focus on individual mistakes.

 

And that was a long winded way of saying "look for the root causes" rather than focus on the symptoms.  Don't get hung up on the fact that you missed marks or ran aground..... dig into the deeper cause of why.  95% guaranteed that much of those root causes were in place before the boat ever left the dock.



#77 Canal Bottom

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:10 PM

Hookers for all the crew would be tricky, but might make the basis of a decent movie.

 

Mum, 86 years old;

wife same undisclosed age as me;

female friend of wife, same age as self; 

friend of friend, female, c. 70 years old;

bloke, same age as self 

his girlfriend, same u.a.a.h.

 

That makes an interesting group of hookers to try and hire

 

 

As you can gather, this was not serious racing.

 

Have you shared the expected barriers to entry for this venue with the extended crew?

 

Maybe go ahead with the hooker concept.  Done up right it will likely take the attention off you sailing faux pas... Done up right and the word will get out opening up other options for crew if needed. 

 

If the sailing really matters hire a "younger" tactician to help keep you out of trouble steering the old ladies and family members around the course. 

 

Free booze, Free Food, and amble women have been known to go along way with attracting and retaining crew.



#78 BayGal

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:10 PM

1. apologize

2. buy a few rounds of drinks for crew and yourself

3. net weekend assign coffee and provisioning to someone else

4. assign depth to someone else ie someone else should be looking out for the shallow spots and ready willing and able to say hey mr ed we need to tack or we will be aground

5 assign someone else nav marks. Sounds like you were doing too many things nav, drive, mast let your crew shine too. someone doing marks and nav is a great idea. Nav person prints si's they print out local marks and take ownership of getting you to the correct marks and always knowing where they are without going aground. 

6. Why are you raising the sail?? seriously let your crew do something . Stop and train a trustworthy crew. 

 

So apologize, drink, trust and train crew and allow them to do shit, fewer mistakes , profit



#79 Ragtime

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 06:30 AM

So what's the post-regatta debriefing to be when one person on the crew has completely let everyone down? When he was helming the boat went aground (repeatedly), and was heroically late for the starts; when navigating he missed marks and led the boat aground (again); when doing sail handling he failed to get the topsail up at all, (after four efforts), and when doing the shopping forgot the coffee. 

I can't even just drop him from the crew, because it was me.

What an awful weekend - never sailed so badly in all my life. I don't care about results, but I do care about sailing well, and I was terrible: talk about lions led by a donkey.

Anyone have any moral recipes to get over it? 

We're sailing again next weekend, and the way I feel right now I'd as soon call it off.

The above taken all together means you are qualified to owner-drive a Santa Cruz 70 without remorse...



#80 Silverbullet

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 09:12 AM

you're never as good as your best days or as bad as your worst days, get over it.

 

+1



#81 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 03:05 PM

Mr Ed,

try this one.. this wed night it is my boats responsibility to do RC for our club. We got a bullet last week which put us clearly in contention for top spot for the series. 

However, I don't really give a rats ass about the results on Wed nights. So since there are a couple of my crew that are perfectly capable of sailing the boat around the course, 

I and my main trimmer will be doing RC this wed night and the rest of the crew will be racing the boat around the course. I know that the gal driving can drive, I know that the sails will go up and down and in and out pretty much the way they are supposed to. Probably the only weak link in the chain is the drivers knowledge of the little thin water spots, but since the bottom here is soft mud and not rocks, it'll be a good lesson for her if she bottoms out. 

 

If they finish the race without fouling anyone or destroying any sails, I'll consider it a successful evening. 

If they happen to win it, or come in 2nd or 3rd, we're still in contention, will have fulfilled our RC duties for the year 

and the crew will, perhaps, have a different perspective on what's going on at each phase of the race. 

 

One of the biggest problems we had in the early years of my lead mine racing, was that, I was the only person on the boat that knew where were on the race course. 

None of them had any race course presence. This has changed as I've put more of the decision making on them. They have to pay attention to: Where we are; Where the wind is coming from;

What the wind is likely to be on the next leg; Who's around us; etc... My bow man now knows what side of the boat the pole will need to be on for the next hoist, which side of the boat the jib needs to be on when it goes up.. when the pole has to get down on the deck and when it can be left up for a couple minutes after a rounding. 

 

All this frees me up to do what I do worst, drive.  :lol:



#82 European Bloke

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 03:15 PM

Mr Ed,

try this one.. this wed night it is my boats responsibility to do RC for our club. We got a bullet last week which put us clearly in contention for top spot for the series. 

However, I don't really give a rats ass about the results on Wed nights. So since there are a couple of my crew that are perfectly capable of sailing the boat around the course, 

I and my main trimmer will be doing RC this wed night and the rest of the crew will be racing the boat around the course. I know that the gal driving can drive, I know that the sails will go up and down and in and out pretty much the way they are supposed to. Probably the only weak link in the chain is the drivers knowledge of the little thin water spots, but since the bottom here is soft mud and not rocks, it'll be a good lesson for her if she bottoms out. 

 

If they finish the race without fouling anyone or destroying any sails, I'll consider it a successful evening. 

If they happen to win it, or come in 2nd or 3rd, we're still in contention, will have fulfilled our RC duties for the year 

and the crew will, perhaps, have a different perspective on what's going on at each phase of the race. 

I hope they don't hit the committee boat.



#83 Bump-n-Grind

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 03:48 PM

Mr Ed,

try this one.. this wed night it is my boats responsibility to do RC for our club. We got a bullet last week which put us clearly in contention for top spot for the series. 

However, I don't really give a rats ass about the results on Wed nights. So since there are a couple of my crew that are perfectly capable of sailing the boat around the course, 

I and my main trimmer will be doing RC this wed night and the rest of the crew will be racing the boat around the course. I know that the gal driving can drive, I know that the sails will go up and down and in and out pretty much the way they are supposed to. Probably the only weak link in the chain is the drivers knowledge of the little thin water spots, but since the bottom here is soft mud and not rocks, it'll be a good lesson for her if she bottoms out. 

 

If they finish the race without fouling anyone or destroying any sails, I'll consider it a successful evening. 

If they happen to win it, or come in 2nd or 3rd, we're still in contention, will have fulfilled our RC duties for the year 

and the crew will, perhaps, have a different perspective on what's going on at each phase of the race. 

I hope they don't hit the committee boat.

that would be hard to do, because we don't have a committee boat. we have a starting tower on a dock. 

and 90% of our starts are downwind. 



#84 European Bloke

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:09 PM

 

Mr Ed,

try this one.. this wed night it is my boats responsibility to do RC for our club. We got a bullet last week which put us clearly in contention for top spot for the series. 

However, I don't really give a rats ass about the results on Wed nights. So since there are a couple of my crew that are perfectly capable of sailing the boat around the course, 

I and my main trimmer will be doing RC this wed night and the rest of the crew will be racing the boat around the course. I know that the gal driving can drive, I know that the sails will go up and down and in and out pretty much the way they are supposed to. Probably the only weak link in the chain is the drivers knowledge of the little thin water spots, but since the bottom here is soft mud and not rocks, it'll be a good lesson for her if she bottoms out. 

 

If they finish the race without fouling anyone or destroying any sails, I'll consider it a successful evening. 

If they happen to win it, or come in 2nd or 3rd, we're still in contention, will have fulfilled our RC duties for the year 

and the crew will, perhaps, have a different perspective on what's going on at each phase of the race. 

I hope they don't hit the committee boat.

that would be hard to do, because we don't have a committee boat. we have a starting tower on a dock. 

and 90% of our starts are downwind. 

Hitting that would be even more annoying.



#85 Mr. Ed

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:34 PM

Well, I bet all of you in the SA therapy group are dying to know how we did this last weekend.

 

I won't brag about our result, but things were much improved, and many thanks for all your suggestions - the sleep apnoea mask was a bit of a nuisance to wear, but they say I was much more relaxed for it. I couldn't afford a hooker each, so there was some sharing going on, but there weren't too many complaints. Harold Cudmore was the best coach I could get at short notice, and it wasn't cheap to get him over, but it was well worth it - a good craic had by all. 

 

 

Nevertheless, the balance of payments in spousal relations in re competence on the boat has some way to be restored. At least I know what it's like to be patronised now!



#86 BlondeWithFreeBoat

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 04:35 PM

Mr Ed,
try this one.. this wed night it is my boats responsibility to do RC for our club. We got a bullet last week which put us clearly in contention for top spot for the series. 
However, I don't really give a rats ass about the results on Wed nights. So since there are a couple of my crew that are perfectly capable of sailing the boat around the course, 
I and my main trimmer will be doing RC this wed night and the rest of the crew will be racing the boat around the course. I know that the gal driving can drive, I know that the sails will go up and down and in and out pretty much the way they are supposed to. Probably the only weak link in the chain is the drivers knowledge of the little thin water spots, but since the bottom here is soft mud and not rocks, it'll be a good lesson for her if she bottoms out. 
 
If they finish the race without fouling anyone or destroying any sails, I'll consider it a successful evening. 
If they happen to win it, or come in 2nd or 3rd, we're still in contention, will have fulfilled our RC duties for the year 
and the crew will, perhaps, have a different perspective on what's going on at each phase of the race. 
 
One of the biggest problems we had in the early years of my lead mine racing, was that, I was the only person on the boat that knew where were on the race course. 
None of them had any race course presence. This has changed as I've put more of the decision making on them. They have to pay attention to: Where we are; Where the wind is coming from;
What the wind is likely to be on the next leg; Who's around us; etc... My bow man now knows what side of the boat the pole will need to be on for the next hoist, which side of the boat the jib needs to be on when it goes up.. when the pole has to get down on the deck and when it can be left up for a couple minutes after a rounding. 
 
All this frees me up to do what I do worst, drive.  :lol:


I thought *I* was your main trimmer!! I see how it is!! ::Sob::

:P

#87 OBW

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:43 AM

I hope your someone who learns from their mistakes. If so you will do great next race. If not racing may be a painful process for sometime. Either way get back out and try again have fun we all make mistakes

#88 DRIFTW00D

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 01:27 AM

Blaw
Blaw
Blaw

Plan - Do - Review

Learn from your mistakes.

Do not let it happen!




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