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"Heaven Can Wait" 24 hour Yacht Race


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#101 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 05:48 AM

Godzone ? map of Lake Macquarie
'bout 25 miles top to bottom ??

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#102 bfp

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 06:03 AM

HcW.

I dont know much about the Lake. I love the concept of a 24 hour race.
The course doesnt really matter to me - you know the area, just set some sort of course everyone can keep going around and around.

The handicapping really should be fixed and published well before the race, and have some sort of facility for people to offer suggestions through (even if it is just an email address or something similar). You dont really want to peeve people off with changing the handicaps during the race etc.

The change-over of crew needs to be addressed. My suggestion is a dedicated pit stop area where people can stop for repairs etc as well as a crew change. The time it takes to sail off the course and back could be enough of a penalty.

Make sure you tell us all here on SA when you have released your N of R. Have to get to this one!

#103 Heaven can wait

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Posted 02 May 2005 - 11:05 AM

bfp, thanks for the input. We have a bit of a contigentcy plan based on the numbers of boats that enter, ie 250 course 1, 500 course 2, 750 course 3 etc...

This is mainly to keep boats apart during the day and moreso during the night.

Those who frequent the SBA forums will get the NOR here first, then a formal Press Release will go to Australian Sailing, Australian Yachting and Sailing World.

Handicapping will I'm pleased to say will be one of the "Fairest" systems we can find. We have committed magician's pressing the boards, somewhere around a club near you, all gathering information about you guys.

But never fear bfp, for we have the YA watching over our shoulders, and you'll know pretty much know your H'cap when you enter.

Gybset, great map mate, who's brochure did you swipe that from?

Just on Charts, we have a surveying office organizing a Race Specific Chart, which will become available in due course.

Chart plotters of the "small" variety will be available also at special "HcW 24 hour" prices.

Accommodation wize, the NOR will assist you in a basic capacity, however we shall endeavour to give everyone as much time as possible to get your accommodation planned and booked.

#104 tbm

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 10:34 AM

the same with the bit of water between the southern end of wangi point and the eastern tip of pulbah, fuck all water and lots of wind through there makes it very lumpy and you could imagine how fun that wouldnt b at midnite in a T8 at midnight


WTF
Hey gorn frantic isn't that the deppest part of lake mac?????

nope, its 1 of the shallowest

Hey gorn frantic
sorry to rain on your parade dude but the sothern end of wangi pt to pulbar island is actually the deepest part of the lake at 10mtrs deep!
The actuall depths across to pulbar from wangi pt (south) to east end of pulbah are ;10mtrs at wangi then 8 mtrs then back to 10 mtrs deep, if this is one of the shallowest parts of the lake can u plz tell me where the deepest is?

#105 Heaven can wait

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 12:48 PM

Tbm, I actually think that the Southern side of Pulbar Island is the deepest part of the Lake, they reckon it's 15 meters deep, although my sources cold have been drinking.

As for me I race a TS with no depth sounder, when we go bump we pull the keel up, when we go "Bang" we generally go "OOOOPS".

#106 tbm

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 07:59 PM

I looked at the map of gods country and the southern side of pulbah is on listed as 10 mtrs deep!It is the same as the southern side of wangi were all the big bad bull sharks live! If you go to the east of the "channel"up to pulbah you will find shollow water but that is marked by the "Gas" marker
HCW are you serious about the expected boat numbers for this race?
That would be a sensational weekend of racing/partying all in the name of charity
BRING IT ON

#107 tbm

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 09:13 PM

Hcw
I have been thinking about this race and here r a few ideas
1 course start of fishing /coal pt
pulbah isl south side
down to shingle splinters
pulbah isl north side
into wangi
into rathmines
around coal pt
down to warners bay
into bemont
back to pulbah
Do this for 24 hrs and you should get a kite/ work/reach no matter what direction the breeze is. It would suit all types ie assys-s/b-big boats-moldy holes.
If you have a bouy at wangi pt you could have red /green lights on it to tell you witch side you have to pass.The only problem is keeping the bouy from spining around? As for a handicap system what about the boat who has the most consistent times per lap is the winner that way the dudes that what to bludge dont get rewarded ,and the ones that try for the whole race are rewarded?You could set up a rco station at say wangi sailing club and as you pass the mark at night you have to shine a torch on you sail numbers to show the shore crew who u r.
What does ya all think?

#108 Chris 249

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Posted 03 May 2005 - 11:53 PM

It sounds good apart from the handicap system; "the boat who has the most consistent times per lap is the winner".

An average speed per lap, with the prize going to the most consistent boat, has lots of problems. For one, imagine two boats alongside each other in a light-air race. They sail exactly the same speed until the last lap, averaging 4.5 knots. On the last lap, a thunderstorm comes in. Boat A pops the kite, hangs on with skill and guts and pulls ahead. They average 9 knots for that lap, 'cause they sail well.

The other boat wimps it out 'cause they're not good enough to run the kite. They reef right down, drop the jib. They keep to their 4.5 knot average because of their fear. They are more consistent and therefore they win, because they were scared and conservative and can't sail. Surely that ain't fair.

In an average lap speed system, a Mumm 30 that's so badly handled that it always sails at 3 knots will beat a Thunderbird that sometimes sails at 6 knots and sometimes sails at 4 knots. That ain't fair.

You simply can't have a handicap system that rewards good sailors UNLESS you take account of the boat's potential speed. Unless you take account of the design, a Bluebird can beat an Adams 10 across the line and get beaten on handicap. That's wrong.

#109 Heaven can wait

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Posted 04 May 2005 - 05:55 AM

Firstly, Tbm

The number of participating Yachts is probably one for conjecture this far out from the actual event, however as Cancer is the single biggest killer of Aussies, we already have a ready made informed and affected public out there.

The talk amoungst the Sailing media is one of a "Fleet of a considerable size".

I mentioned 1 - 200 boats, the general concensus was try upwards of a thousand. I would be completely blown away if we have a fleet like that, but realistically if we could get 500 plus, The "Heaven can Wait" has realized its objective.

One of the positive aspects of having Cancer, if there are any at all, is people tend to second guess their own mortality when you speak to them, and as for prospective "Sponsors", my story has struck a cord with big Business, and the flow on will be prizes that will set the "Heaven can Wait" apart from others. An event truly worth winning!

As for the Course, the start and finish will be off Mannering Park Yacht Club, as to what happens in between will be up to you the entrants.

We are trying to get feedback with respect to "Sportsboats" as the inclusion of "Pit Stops/crew changes complicate matters, however if there are enough SB entrants this will make for an interesting spectacle in itself.

We've had about 35 boats and their owners already confirm accommodation for the race, with Yachts ranging in size from 22 feet to 50 feet, and we haven't even gone "Mainstream" yet.

I agree with Chris 249, whole heartedly, this race is for not quite for "Sheep Stations", but needless to say, I hope we can agree on a system that is reasonably "fair" for all. We are not going to have a Handicap System that is geared to designs, rather it will be geared to sailing well for upwards of 24 hours I'll trust.

If there are any interested SBA members who would consider an advisory role as part of an on - line committee I'm open to suggestions?

#110 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 03:50 AM

If not class based then tricky, base it on an average of random laps, bloody tricky

send some guinea pigs around the course well before raceday to get a feel for hcps

#111 Heaven can wait

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 11:06 AM

GybeSet, and any interested boaties.

We are looking for yachts to join a small fleet this October long weekend, that will be sailing the full course so as to get some feedback as to average distances travelled and course practicalities.

Anyone interested? could be worth some "Brownie" points!

We currently have 4 boats participating, however they are predominately Cruiser - Racer orientated, a couple of flat out Race Boats would be very much appreciated.

Handicapping wize, sportsboats and "left field" racing yachts don't rate well under IRC, hence very few race under it. AMS is also mainstream orientated - so our choice's for a System to give everyone a reasonable chance, providing they sail there boat well is being sourced as we speak.

I've notice that the Marlay Point Overnighter uses CBH, how does that fair with you sportsboat "Hot heads"?

The bottom line is that we new to find some common ground so as to find a "Fair" system that we can pitch a 50 footer against the fastest sportsboat, against the slowest "Tub" and get a fair and reasonable result!

#112 bfp

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 05:33 PM

I think you will find it hard to handicap the sportsboats against the racing yachts against the older style yachts against the older style trailerable yachts and against off the multihulls against the dingy fleet etc.

A suggestion - don't! Keep the divisions separate.

The results will be so weather dependant that no mater what handicapping system you use, it will be wrong.

Just let the yachts race IRC, the trailerbuckets race a modified CBH type handicap etc and award winners for the different divisions. Everyone knows who they are racing. There should be a number of overall winners. It will mean more that way.

You can not be everything to everyone. To try to be will just end in disaster.

#113 Chris 249

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Posted 05 May 2005 - 10:17 PM

I understand what you mean, bfp, but it seems to suck the big one that Australia has no simple, cheap rating system for the average guy in an average boat; something that's not big enough to race IRC (it's not worth rating IRC in a little old boat 'cause the opther little old boats don't have it), not a SB, not an OD.

Just about everywhere else has PHRF, Portsmouth, or something else like that. At the moment we rely on arbitrary which is complete and utter bullshit when used as the only handicapping system; why the *&^%$%$#@@ should you be able to "win" when you finish 30 minutes behind a sistership with crappier gear?

There's plenty of information out there to create a PHRF style rating for the East Coasts, Sonatas, S 80s, Adams 13s. As you say, it won't be perfect, but at least it would give Joe Average something to go for.....instead of being kicked in the teeth by the handicapper 'cause he sails well.

My thinking is to have an IRC division (if we get that many boats with certs....doubtful) racing under IRC, and a SB division under CBH (who'd get caught up with modifying the CBH; from what you can see here unless everyone won they'd all be bitching and whining about the "old farts" doing the handicapping), and an older TY division under CBH, and then the "odds and sods" classes and the whole fleet under a PHRF style system created from averaging ECHO, VYC, the Sydney club system, PHRF, LYS, Portsmouth, the average of each states' CBH and the NZ CBH, etc. That gives you a huge amount of information for many designs.

#114 Heaven can wait

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Posted 06 May 2005 - 12:35 AM

I certainly agree with arbitory h'capps being crap, my little club uses a TCF system which although is not perfect, is over time presents each boat with an "Average" rating, sail better than your average and you have a chance at the "Silverware".

I've been thinking along the lines of PHRF & CBH, IRC only really relevant when you have enough boats complying.

I think a system which takes into account as much of what is "Known" about a particular boat is relevant, however for my Young for example, whilst you have a rating for a "Turboed" MK IV boat, this doesn't reflect on my MK III Cruiser.

The same could probably be said for such designs like Bulls, Elliots and Farrs - IOR - IMS - IRC etc.

Also wouldn't like to get to the stage of having to rent a house and fill it with computers to try and work it all out.

We'll get there? Unfortunately you get a number of "Knuckle Heads" that will attack the Race because of it's H'capping rather than taking into account what the actual Race is for!

I would be no happier a camper if we could all see the "Best" boats in the land line up for the start, but to do this, I would never like to see the "Heaven" thought of as "Mickey Mouse" race, rather an opportunity to establish a broader reaching H'capping system that what we currently have. A revision of the Australian Measurement System perhaps?

#115 Heaven can wait

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Posted 07 May 2005 - 07:44 AM

Interested boat owners can goto MPYC Club website to get progress updates on the race.

We are working on the Races NOR, and we will release it here on SBA in due course.

I Really need you "extreme sportsboat" guys to jump in and give us a hand with your race format?

#116 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 07 May 2005 - 07:54 AM

Heaven u got 'em right there in Lake Macquarie

3 bs23's - 2 @ RMYC, 1 Wangi (Nige)

2/3 Magic 25's @ LMYC on the hard

'My Kindy' RMYC


Julian G. may have contacts, you should call him too,(PM him thru SA)
we have done Wangi that w/e in the past sos u should spk to Nigel (wangi) too, if you clash N may be able to schedule Wangi fleet into yours, dunno, best call Nigel (wilson?- red bs23) or Mr Mayo at Wangi. N. may like the idea of a lake lap on the monday or something.
Like OPEN class SB the owners are more Open-Minded than our predecessors also

(edited re below) too much wordage on my part so to the point my opin.
i) letting u know of yr local SB's they unlikely to be cat5 at the mo !!
ii) I have no preference of course cept north/south sounds simpler, a gate ?
iii) if Wangi has 3 day SB meet that weekend they should endeavour to be in HCW race as well wangi hstorically has most T7s and E7s nsw there and us riff-raff
bit clearer ?

#117 Heaven can wait

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Posted 07 May 2005 - 08:06 AM

GybeSet,

problem I have is, I've got a heap of interest from up and down the Coast, and to organize an Extreme Sportsboat element to the race I need a couple of you guys to come up with a plan - crew changes - pitstops etc......

I have "Old farts" working on mainstream course, put you guys into the equation and instand confusion reighs.

I'm caught up securing sponsors for the "Race", which is a full time job in itself?

GybeSet, appreciate your input, however try and get a "feel" for what the others want to do with respect to the make - up of your course.

"Extreme Sportsboats" will be included in the "Heaven can Wait" under "special" conditions.

#118 Heaven can wait

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 01:01 AM

Hold onto your Hats boys and Girls'

Disscussions are afoot to make the "Heaven can Wait" into a National Series????????

Could make the series winner a bit of a "Legend" though.

However don't panic, we're concentrating on getting the first one up and running first. Nice thought though???????

#119 bfp

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 04:44 AM

GybeSet, appreciate your input, however try and get a "feel" for what the others want to do with respect to the make - up of your course.

"Extreme Sportsboats" will be included in the "Heaven can Wait" under "special" conditions.

I dont understand why you want to separate the fleets into different courses.

I would have thought different results, but why not let everyone race each other on the water.

As long as the boats comply with the safety regs, then let them go. Why do you want to seperate the fleet?

#120 Jacko_Aus

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 05:01 AM

Another Lake Macquarie map......

#121 Heaven can wait

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 06:13 AM

bfp, That is exactly my point, I don't want to split up the Fleet, I want everyone to sail the same course. However earlier in this thread, the "Extreme Guys" were heading toward a "Pit - stop" race.

I think the question is can the Trap/Wing guys, sail the distance or do they need to change crew at some point?????????

We have to consider the "Extreme Sportsboats" under "Special Regs" clause as per Marlay Point and as per NSW Maritime recommendations, to include them as starters (this has to do with PFD's, strobes etc).

#122 bfp

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 08:01 AM

bfp, That is exactly my point, I don't want to split up the Fleet, I want everyone to sail the same course. However earlier in this thread, the "Extreme Guys" were heading toward a "Pit - stop" race.

I think the question is can the Trap/Wing guys, sail the distance or do they need to change crew at some point?????????

We have to consider the "Extreme Sportsboats" under "Special Regs" clause as per Marlay Point and as per NSW Maritime recommendations, to include them as starters (this has to do with PFD's, strobes etc).

Maybe let them have a pitstop, but they lose the time it takes to get to the changeover point. I dont know what coiurse you are thinkng, but it cant be that far to a jetty somewhere on the lake, can it?

I am sure the guys can sail for 24hours - it really isnt that long - the questionis will the cost of changing the crew over be worth the increase in performance. Just another tactical thing to consider in the race.

I don't quite understand why a fully Cat 5N compiiant trailable yacht with wings etc would need to be treated any differently to the Cat 5N compliant trailable yacht without wings etc? Could you just explain that a little more for me. You lost me there.

And if the boats arent Cat 5N (or whatever safety class you select), then why are they out there.

#123 Heaven can wait

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Posted 13 May 2005 - 11:41 AM

bfp,

New Resistance to capsize for Monohulls Regs from Yachting Australia "Special Regs" APPENDIX D to Part 1. to be issued to MYAs and Clubs prior to implementation on 1st July 2005.

I haven't seen any of these changes, so I can only go off 3.04 for stability of monohulls. Has anyone sighted the NEW regs??????

As part of special regs Yachts fitted with Wings, and or Trapezes, crew must wear PFD 1 with reflective patches/tape on their clothing and it is recommended for at least 2 crew to carry a luminus nightstick, so as to be seen forward and aft.

There is also some conjecture as to appendage, is the Maximum beam for a Sportsboat with "Wings" a part of the hull structure, or Wings span?

These "special reg boats will also be certified as to positive buoyancy?

I agree mainstream race to be continuous for 24 hours, ex - sportsboats have option for crew change as long as race organisers know who the crew changes are, when and where and who they replaced!

If you consider this to be regulated, sorry we have to have a contingency plan for Water Police, NSW Maritime and Volunteer Coastal patrol. Easy way to get around these hassles, keep going?

I hope I've shed a little bit of light for you?????

#124 Heaven can wait

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Posted 16 May 2005 - 01:03 PM

Sportsboats are to "Classified" as two divisions "Traditional" and "Open"

If boats can comply with Cat 5N of New Blue Book, and entertain the New Stability Regs due in July - all good.???????????????????????????????

Handicap/Division worked out on CBH cut off limit 0.8 down "Traditional" > 0.8 up "Open"??????????????????? :wacko:

#125 Heaven can wait

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 02:48 AM

The "Heaven can Wait" 24-hour Yacht Race "Flyer".

NOR TBA

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#126 lickety-split

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 05:47 AM

I am interested in competing. Would seriously look at traveling from tas.

In regards to pit stops, why have them, it is a 24hr race which obviously is based as an "endurance event" if your boat is physical to sail then do more preparation that in my mind is the whole idea of a 24hr event and is where the fun is at.

In tas we have the Three Peaks race which is held over Easter every year which is a sailing and running race from Nth tas to South tas which takes about three days to finish which includes about 450nm of sailing, Split into 3 legs and around 132km of running up 3 seperate mountains and are restricted to 3 sailors and 2 runners on board. This race is a REAL test of endurance and this is where the fun is at in this race. The yachts are not sailed at their full potential due to being short handed and crew being fatigued but that is the whole idea... Very different tough but fun race to do.

HCW your idea for this race is great hope it goes ahead.

#127 Pit Bitch

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Posted 31 May 2005 - 10:36 PM

In regards to pit stops, why have them, it is a 24hr race which obviously is based as an "endurance event" if your boat is physical to sail then do more preparation that in my mind is the whole idea of a 24hr event and is where the fun is at.

What kind is she window? Does she have a high comfort level??

I'm fairly sure I don't want to be sitting on the side of a wing for 24 hours - I like the concept of being able to move freely after the event??!! Sorry mate, my other half is an endurance athlete - I am built for comfort.. Isn't the whole idea of this regatta to get everyone together for a unique event that supports a great cause that isn't excluding the average Mr and Mrs Joe??

Anyway, taking 24 hours worth of bundy would sink the fleet - got to have pit stops to collect dinner and more flavoursome beverages!!!!

#128 sea bogan

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 02:10 AM

what don't you have an esky on board pit bitch there should be plenty of room for one on that big boat of yours.

#129 Heaven can wait

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 02:45 AM

[What kind is she window? Does she have a high comfort level??

- I am built for comfort.. Isn't the whole idea of this regatta to get everyone together for a unique event that supports a great cause that isn't excluding the average Mr and Mrs Joe??

Anyway, taking 24 hours worth of bundy would sink the fleet - got to have pit stops to collect dinner and more flavoursome beverages!!!!

What are insinuating Pit Bitch, that you're Mr or Mrs Joe Average??????? :D :D :D

#130 Pit Bitch

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 04:14 AM

What are insinuating Pit Bitch, that you're Mr or Mrs Joe Average??????? :D :D :D

Happy to be referred to from now on..... :rolleyes:

#131 lickety-split

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 05:02 AM

Pitch bitch

Dont want to be an ahole but maybe this race mightent suit you. You could still be a part of it and stop at the pub and have a meal when you required which would maybe put you out of contention of a podium finish, but taking part and showing support for the cause is 98% the reason for competing isnt it? The point it is a 24hr is to represent what the support base (eg family and friends) of some one diagnosed with cancer goes through. Hope you see my point.

window.

ps. my boat is definately not a comfort machine.

#132 Pit Bitch

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 05:09 AM

Point taken window - but there is every chance that I will be there on the start line - shall we put a jug of Bundy on it now??

While endurance should be part of the competition - creating a potentially dangerous situation should not.

Please don't assume I am an airhead or racer chaser, I might get cranky.. <_<

#133 lickety-split

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 05:37 AM

Hope to be able to get there and have many jugs with you.

Really dont think a potentially dangerous situation is created by not having pit stops.
Maybe if you got really pissed and fell overboard that would be more likely.

On a positive this race should go ahead and would be alot of fun.

#134 Heaven can wait

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Posted 01 June 2005 - 05:52 AM

What sort of Carrots do you guys want to play for???????

Name it and we'll see what we can do, take into account there're 9 Divisions.

(we're including a Traveller's award so "Window" all you've got to do is front and you're odds on)

#135 Heaven can wait

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Posted 02 June 2005 - 11:35 PM

We're gearing up for a reasonably big "Press Release" in the near future, and our international Partners, are sharpening their pencils, which is all good for combatants?

Latest Cancer Stat's aren't encouraging 1 in 2 Males will get Cancer in their lifetime. Females 1 in 3.

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#136 Heaven can wait

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Posted 03 June 2005 - 04:43 AM

Still looking for Guinea Pigs, to sail trial this October if any of you are interested. We need Data, how far?, how fast?, have any Nav problems? etc....

#137 Heaven can wait

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Posted 07 June 2005 - 12:25 AM

If your Club wants to put a team together, go for it?

Any of you CYCA guys think you can handle 24-hours on a lake, nice pre-prep for the Hobart or Coff's.

#138 Heaven can wait

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Posted 16 June 2005 - 12:50 PM

Lastest developments - The Heaven can Wait Race Committee have requested dispensation from the "Haul Down" compliance test for Cat 5.

Interested to see if it's given considering the Rescue "Support" the race will have??????

#139 thatbarguy

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Posted 17 June 2005 - 04:24 AM

HCW,

Always wondered where shot ended up. Broken anything yet?

thatbarguy

#140 Heaven can wait

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Posted 26 June 2005 - 11:18 AM

Tbg,

I had a pretty good play with the photo, and dozens of others, this one was the only one that adjusted well to the "Arty" treatment.

Typifies the Lake and it's God's country - sailing qualities!

Didn't think you'd work the boat out though????????

It's for sale up on the Lake $37,500.00 from memory

#141 Mr Adventure (aka craig)

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 11:20 AM

Heaven
If you are going to have a distance race make it worth it
24 hours no stops
don't make it easy make it memorable

today we discussed bringing the u30 down if it going to be on
can race with out strings (have irc ct for that as well)

There used to be a 24 hour Laser race in Auckland years ago around this volcanic crater

So who is whinging about 24 hours in a sports boat - too easy

#142 Heaven can wait

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 11:59 AM

Bang on Craig,

The whole purpose of the 24-hours is to reflect what a family goes through with a Critically Ill family member.

I know it's not the same, but in some way 24-hours is not a long time, but for those families it's an eternity, trust me my wife will tell you.

The purpose of the 24-hour is to push as hard as practical, if that means stopping every 4 hours because your crews buggered, well unfortunately you ain't going to figure on the Silverware.

If I can sail for 24-hours anyone can, and that's my goal, to not only start but to finish with my "OSB Heaven can Wait" under me.

Love to see as many Queenslander's down here in God's own, and plans are a foot to have a "Heaven" up there in the future - pardon the pun.

The idea Craig is to make this race as memorable as Lake Macquarie will facilitate. Trust me with hundreds of boats trying to negotiate the first 4 nautical miles, you'll be busy, and I don't mean this lightly just ask GybeSet or Chris 249.

If any of you have families that wish to watch this race from one of the best vantage points on the Lake, Pt Wolstencroft is place, as you'll be super close to the action - (Thats where the TV cameras are setting up)

Look forward to having your company down South. Cheers....

#143 ColinG

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Posted 30 June 2005 - 01:08 PM

IF anyone can find me a cheap trailer for my spider 28 I'll be there (never did get round to getting one)!
Guess I could always sail up :)

#144 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 01:04 AM

IF anyone can find me a cheap trailer for my spider 28 I'll be there (never did get round to getting one)!
Guess I could always sail up :)

Etchells trailer !!

borrow an option, E22s are 1500kg easy

post a specific 'help' thread on main SA forum ??

sailing would be cool but yr bulb is light on ! good 4 DW !!

HCW can you put out a call for spare trailers for moored Syd boats.

#145 Heaven can wait

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Posted 01 July 2005 - 03:24 AM

HCW can you put out a call for spare trailers for moored Syd boats.

Sure, GybeSet but I'm not sure of the spare trailer situation down in old Sydney Town. Maybe send out the feelers within your Clubs and sound out any spare trailers.

Better still get a number of you boat owners to sort out a trailer Pooling arrangement.

I'm working with the owner of a private marina close to our Club, who could probably cater for 30-40 boats for an extended period - say a week each side of the "Heaven can Wait" 24-hour if that's helpful. :ph34r:

#146 Heaven can wait

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Posted 05 July 2005 - 11:34 AM

We are arranging to have a "Sailing Anarchy" teams trophy, so with the Eds help, you anarchists out there are catered for. :ph34r:

#147 TD Floater

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 10:30 AM

Hey HcW, I reckon th E7 can do the trial will that be a go?

#148 Heaven can wait

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 10:38 AM

Hey HcW, I reckon th E7 can do the trial will that be a go?

Yep????, just let us know when you're certain - crew etc?? The more the better.

#149 TD Floater

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 10:41 AM

Yep, certain. Crew will be TBA, no not Toni.

#150 Heaven can wait

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:15 AM

Why not Tony - nothing like a "Fish out water"???

#151 Phil

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:28 AM

HCW,how close are you to sorting out divisions?

The fleet from LMYC V Trailers etc.If you are talking Oct long weekend do we bring the A10s up from Sydney for example?

The only way I can see it is for div results ,with maybe an out of the hat for best overall.

#152 Heaven can wait

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:38 AM

Phil, this year 05 is only a trial, 06 is the Event and we expect a heap of you guys.

Divisions have been worked out, and depending on Numbers of entries the majority of Adams 10's will be in Racing Div 2. Would be great if you guys can get a TCF base system for all of the A10's - making overall handicapping easier.

Phil, 9 Divisions in all (2 x Racing Yacht Div) (2 x Sportsboat Div) (2 x Multi-hull Div) (3 x Cruising Yacht Div)

#153 Phil

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:40 AM

HCW, send the details to Mel or Myself and we'll raise it,we have a mini Assoc meeting this Wed.

PM or use the link on the class site.

#154 Heaven can wait

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 11:58 AM

Phil, page 3 of this thread has a flyer with the relevant details for you.

#155 Phil

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 12:03 PM

Can you send it?

#156 Heaven can wait

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 12:09 PM

Can you send it?

Yep, where would you like it sent too?

#157 Phil

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 12:17 PM

I'll get Mel to chase it up via page3.

#158 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 12:19 PM

The "Heaven can Wait" 24-hour Yacht Race "Flyer".

NOR TBA

bugger page 3 , ! here it is

HCW promo flyer

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#159 Heaven can wait

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 02:53 PM

Thank you GybeSet - might have to get my son to show me how to work my computer. (He's pretty good at that to!)

#160 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 11 July 2005 - 03:26 PM

Now you've made me do a proper job of it,

p.s. do you intend/envisage the '05 trial to be 24 hrs, i.e 'full dress' rehearsal, E7's would be cool for that

ps I don't have a full dress, only a Woy Woy skirt

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#161 Heaven can wait

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 05:15 AM

Now you've made me do a proper job of it,

p.s. do you intend/envisage the '05 trial to be 24 hrs, i.e 'full dress' rehearsal, E7's would be cool for that

ps I don't have a full dress, only a Woy Woy skirt

The 05 trial is the full dress rehersal for the main Event, and will run the full 24 hours - or until you guys have sailed your designated course.

I'm really interested to see how the E7's and the A10's go as this performance section will ultimately determine the course for the majority of the Performance divisions.

GybeSet I'll expect to see you there in yer Woy Woy skirt, and if you can't find crew - I'll sail with you.

Note interested parties, the 05 trial is a sensational way to find your way around the course without the distraction of a large fleet - and work on your watch set-ups.

#162 TD Floater

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 06:11 AM

Although I'm looking forward to the "trial", I doubt there will be many E7's as we have states at Pittwater the following weekend. There will also be a few of us doing thew JB 32 Miler mid-november.

I plan to leave the boat, hopefully in pittwater for the following weekend. I may take volunteer crew for HcW's regatta if anyone is interested.

#163 Heaven can wait

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 07:40 AM

Although I'm looking forward to the "trial", I doubt there will be many E7's as we have states at Pittwater the following weekend. There will also be a few of us doing thew JB 32 Miler mid-november.

I plan to leave the boat, hopefully in pittwater for the following weekend. I may take volunteer crew for HcW's regatta if anyone is interested.

Steve AUS, seems to me like a pretty good opportunity to have your cake and eat it too. I mean having the States the following weekend on Pittwater.

24 hour jaunt on the Saturday - Sunday, Monday to recover, 4 days later State Titles. I wish my sailing programs had worked out that well in the past????

Have you any idea as too your sailing program for the E's in 2006. The HcW could be an ideal shake down for your States or Nationals, as I'm sure we could arrange a Class Trophy - if you have enough boats and the Titles were to be held in NSW.

Geeze I reckon a family could have a ball with that much "serious" sailing.

#164 Jacko_Aus

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 07:50 AM

ps I don't have a full dress, only a Woy Woy skirt

That'll be Wyong....


Unless you're as old as Phil.... and then, I suppose, a Woy Woy length could be seen as a bit risque.....

#165 Phil

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 08:24 AM

Thanks Jacko







Not.

#166 TD Floater

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 09:22 AM

Steve AUS, seems to me like a pretty good opportunity to have your cake and eat it too. I mean having the States the following weekend on Pittwater.

24 hour jaunt on the Saturday - Sunday, Monday to recover, 4 days later State Titles. I wish my sailing programs had worked out that well in the past????

Have you any idea as too your sailing program for the E's in 2006. The HcW could be an ideal shake down for your States or Nationals, as I'm sure we could arrange a Class Trophy - if you have enough boats and the Titles were to be held in NSW.

Geeze I reckon a family could have a ball with that much "serious" sailing.


Well, I have sacrificed Nationals @ Geelong Week and Marlay, to do your HcW Race. I will be eating my cake, though.

Agree, that's why I'm doing yours.

As we have discussed before, it would be good to fit in. Hopefully by us doing the trial it may help. In fact we have scraped the States on the Oct long weekend, as people want to spend that time doing other things (apparently). We have tried to keep holidays seperate from our program so families can still do their thing.

Yeah, it's always serious fun when we sail. Unfortunately, the lady won't race anymore (go figure) and 3and a bit old needs a bit more attention span.

#167 Heaven can wait

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 11:14 AM

I've got the exact opposite with my kids - Dad can you take us sailing - all good really, except I have my own personal race's to win first.

Firstly, get my health back to some extent, and to get sponsors to help me get "OSB Heaven.." to the start line in 2006, for with out them my boat won't be sailing.

I unfortunately I don't have the Bike riding skills of Lance Armstrong, and sailors seldom earn a very good living in Oz.

Kind of going to be a difficult pill to swallow if the Heaven can Wait 24 - hour is a huge success, and the boat that started it all isn't there.

Steve, on your sailing the trial, having you there is invaluable for us, and any others in the performance genre.

As for the HSF, I'm pretty sure that Yachting Australia will see reason, and grant Dispensation, as this factor alone affects far more than just a Yacht Race, and I dare say the Marlay may suffer as well, if the YA enforce the ruling.

#168 TD Floater

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 11:21 AM

Careful with logic and the YA's. Insert smiley thing.

Don't get me wrong, I got in trouble the other day because I went racing with out him! It's just at this stage if he gets bored of steering then he wants to play, and I'm not usally in the mood to go downstair!

You are most welcome to join our crew, this year or next (we can even rename for the race, if you come aboard).

#169 Heaven can wait

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 11:54 AM

Careful with logic and the YA's. Insert smiley thing.


You are most welcome to join our crew, this year or next (we can even rename for the race, if you come aboard).

What doe's that mean Steve, Careful with logic and the YA's. Insert smiley thing???



Cheers??? :ph34r:

#170 TD Floater

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 12:02 PM

probably you know, think first and then type!

I just wouldn't know what sort of smiley to use. And although I understand the YA's sometimes, other times they are just mystical. Perhaps they will show some sense.

#171 Heaven can wait

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 12:12 PM

probably you know, think first and then type!

I just wouldn't know what sort of smiley to use. And although I understand the YA's sometimes, other times they are just mystical. Perhaps they will show some sense.

The main problem with the YA is they are so heavily biased toward big boats and the big - end on town.

If you look at there website spot the small boat guy on the panel.

No offence to Andrew Hamilton from NSWYA, he's a really nice guy, but he's not a Sailor at all.

Ah we are all in safe hands ------------------------not???? :ph34r:

#172 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 12:13 PM

That'll be Wyong....


Unless you're as old as Phil.... and then, I suppose, a Woy Woy length could be seen as a bit risque.....

pretty close Jacko, a Woy Woy skirt's hem is up near The Entrance

with a blind fold , a pin , and a central coast chart you damn near got it !

#173 TD Floater

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Posted 12 July 2005 - 12:27 PM

yep AH is agood guy, not a sailor. There are plenty in sailing who could at least be asked for some input.

Same as why they are YachtingA, NSW etc, I don't really care. it's the general public perception.

Anyway, for another place.

Keep me posted with what you need for HcW.

#174 Jacko_Aus

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 04:21 AM

That'll be Wyong....


Unless you're as old as Phil.... and then, I suppose, a Woy Woy length could be seen as a bit risque.....

pretty close Jacko, a Woy Woy skirt's hem is up near The Entrance

with a blind fold , a pin , and a central coast chart you damn near got it !

Mate!

As someone who, for 21 years, lived a lot closer to The Entrance than either Wyong or Woy Woy, I reckon I might have a slight idea of the geography and it's relationship to hemlines......

#175 Heaven can wait

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 05:03 AM

That'll be Wyong....


Unless you're as old as Phil.... and then, I suppose, a Woy Woy length could be seen as a bit risque.....

pretty close Jacko, a Woy Woy skirt's hem is up near The Entrance

with a blind fold , a pin , and a central coast chart you damn near got it !

Mate!

As someone who, for 21 years, lived a lot closer to The Entrance than either Wyong or Woy Woy, I reckon I might have a slight idea of the geography and it's relationship to hemlines......

So you blokes organising a fashion parade or what????

Give me enough "Coldies" and I'll watch??? :lol: :lol: :lol: :ph34r:

#176 Jacko_Aus

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 05:30 AM

Neither are worth looking at anymore if you've ever seen a Toowoon Bay skirt walk by.....

#177 Heaven can wait

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 05:37 AM

Neither are worth looking at anymore if you've ever seen a Toowoon Bay skirt walk by.....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: <_<

#178 TD Floater

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 09:14 AM

oh dear this thread is plummeting

#179 Heaven can wait

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 11:43 AM

Steve AUS, Had an interesting call Andrew @ NSWYA earlier today, apparently Lake Macquarie is not regarded as Sheltered waters????

Dispensation claim is interesting, YA have asked for all relevant implicated Authorities to write a one page essay on why I should be a good boy??

Just kidding, no truthfully they've asked for endorsements from our Race Support and their proceedures that they have in place???mmmm.

Wait till they find out the Syd to Hob Rescue Chopper is on stand-by for the Event - that'll stuff them.

#180 TD Floater

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 12:00 PM

mate anytime I can ring Andrew and tell him to lighten up I would loved too.

At least the Thommos won't have to have special lifting gear so as to be able to wind up and down and sail at the same time ala MPONR.

Bloody YA's.
Bloody YA's.
Bloody YA's.
Bloody YA's.

And to think from time to time I stick up for them.

Bloody YA's.
Bloody YA's.

#181 Heaven can wait

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 12:19 PM

Steve,

You guys were able to fly under the Radar last year to do the Marlay, does any of your constituants know what's going to happen next year as a result of the YA's new reg's.

I'm going into bat for the HcW 24hr for trailerables, E22's, A10's and Sportsboats. Would be interested to find out what the Marlay guys are doing?

#182 TD Floater

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 12:30 PM

Seeing as YVic does all the work on the CBH etc, perhaps they will also allow/fight for the famous MPONR to continue on with it's excellent record. time will tell I guess. I will ask the knowledeable one's and let you know.

Perhaps, as HcWR is in a different state and a toatly different time period, and catering for different and same boats, the MPONR organisers may be willing to assist you with your dream. A lot better to go to them and ask if they are willing to provide info/ammo, after all if one dies the other could be affected.

There hasn't been any low flying radar avoidance that I'm aware of, isn't it just that this is a new one. MPONR may be suffering as well, though I doubt it. Piss off 180 boats, not healthy for anyone.

Edited by Steve AUS, 13 July 2005 - 12:34 PM.


#183 Heaven can wait

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 12:42 PM

I've spoken to the secretary a couple of times to let him know about the HcW and also to find out about what sort of $ they need to run their Event.

Secretary was helpful with figures, however they need X amount of boats to break even.

Suggestion of course, go with Charity if break-even point isn't meet and he was receptive.

Last thing I want to see is accidents causing fatalities, that's why our Support is somewhat overkill, however better to be safe than sorry especially for the first one. Still those requirements are from the YA so they will be implicated.

I'm a fan obviously of the HcW and the Marlay - if I can help them then excellent, if they can help me, I'll be most appreciative.

My master plan is to do both over 2006/07.

#184 TD Floater

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 01:12 PM

I should add here that MPONR is a great event, I have said I probably won't do it this year, but will do HcW trial.

We have our States the weekend after HcWt, so it is easy to leave her in Sydney and go back up the following weekend.

Marlay is a different situation as the boat will be going there with owner and family/friends. If needed then I will go.

We are 5 weeks from a baby, so anything could happen.

Love your masterplan, hopefully the E's might be there as well.

That's great that you guys are chatting.

#185 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 03:00 PM

oh dear this thread is plummeting

if 'full dress' ye olde hemlines may plummet too.

btw On whose authority is LM not sheltered waters ?

hcw is it not normal for entry to sign off on responsibility for craft compliance ? I don't get this ( and that makes me edgy ! ). Where is this not the case ? Why is it not the case here. Marlay works.

#186 Heaven can wait

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 03:31 PM

if 'full dress' ye olde hemlines may plummet too.

btw On whose authority is LM not sheltered waters ?

hcw is it not normal for entry to sign off on responsibility for craft compliance ? I don't get this ( and that makes me edgy ! ). Where is this not the case ? Why is it not the case here. Marlay works.

GybeSet,

The way we're going Fancy Dress is going to be the order of the day?

The wombles representing the YA's Rule Committee, didn't recognize LM as sheltered for an overnighter Cat 5 Event. Kind of misses the Point if it's only a 12hour.

I'm aware of the entrant to sign off on responsibility for craft compliance, however if the YA are going to enforce their rule requirements - half the world won't show.

Marlay could be implicated by new reg's - I've asked about their situation and AH from NSWYA kept the old Cards close to his chest.

Being granted that "Dispensation" hopefully will head off the "Sorry go home" note, where just trying to nail the basic logistics.

Need not be edgy - My Young doesn't comply, and how Dumb would that look if I'm not allowed to sail?

#187 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 13 July 2005 - 10:34 PM

this is some kinda BS.

YA has never enforced pull-downs at regattas, they are not there. There is no authority issuing a cert anyway I believe. It is always going back to entrant sign-off on liabilities.

make YA prove it's Open waters, they cannot say that with justification or proof ?

Talk to MHYC they allows JOG offshore yet JOG certificate (fear of litigation) no longer has reference to stability/self-right, what proof available there ? who was holding the can. Entrant signoff or MHYC-savills ?

Anyway u saw the SB 90 degrees between the heads, make sure hey have bouyancy or throw a truck tyre bladder downstairs.

SO how are you gonna ensure stability or 5N for J24 , Solings/ FFiftenn/ etchells/ Star/ 5.5m/yngling/ Sw Dart, I mean boats that TRULY leave their crews behind to die alone by drowning ?? as the crew drift to the bottom in sympathy with the lead powered shitter.

Suggest they firmly tie in a tyre tube or 3?? what about them at night. or 5N proof of righting ??

Ask YA how would you race dinghies at night , which CAT/rule is that.

this is BS. Entrant sign-off ! there is no cert of stab. until ocean-racer IMS cert re offshore.



(re below)Jacko thats just the point I am making, cat4 but JOG no stability proof or test or cert.

#188 Jacko_Aus

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 01:07 AM

As far as I can remember, both Savilles and JOGs were Cat 4 events...

Forgive me for not knowing, but what's the story with the Marley and new Regs???

#189 Heaven can wait

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 01:10 AM

As far as I can remember, both Savilles and JOGs were Cat 4 events...

Forgive me for not knowing, but what's the story with the Marley and new Regs???

Just the HSF requirement? "Stability for Cat5"

#190 bfp

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 01:41 AM

[Just the HSF requirement? "Stability for Cat5"

HCW,

I am still not understanding why your race is any different to every other event that is run in Australia? Why are not accepting a sign off from the skipper/owner?

#191 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 01:51 AM

talk to some race officers-marlay-mhyc, YA are only gonna read some book at ya.

make every sailor sign off if you think ya gonna lose your house over it.

this is weird get some advice from those who have done it before ?.

#192 Heaven can wait

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Posted 14 July 2005 - 03:27 AM

HCW,

I am still not understanding why your race is any different to every other event that is run in Australia? Why are not accepting a sign off from the skipper/owner?

I'm a little bemussed as to the YA's HSF stipulation, considering both the YV Compliance cert and the YNSW compliance cert, both state "Resistance to Capsize" or "If not resistant to Capsize - Bouyancy" go - figure.

I think someone's making a spectical out of the HcW24-hour, especially as if the Race were to be sailed in daylight it would be a Cat 7?

GybeSet, I've been trying to get in touch with the Marlay Race organizers as I have done in the past - they haven't returned my calls as yet - however talking to the HcW Rescue/support organizers - they collectively Question the YA motif.

I think the main problem guys is the YA doesn't quite know what to do with the HcW24-hour - at least that's the impression I got from AH at YNSW

#193 Heaven can wait

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 12:46 PM

Interesting story guys,

I finally managed to speak to the Marlay powers that be this afternoon, and I found out this bit of irony.

One of the Marlay's officials recently bought himself a retirement present, a Nolex 25 - it is Called "Heaven can Wait", his wife has recently been re-diognosed with Breast Cancer - Both He and His wife are planning as a Goal to race in the Heaven can Wait 24-hour.

My family used to own a Nolex 25, and my boat is called OSB Heaven can Wait, looks to me like that long weekend in October 2006 is going to be a special time for 3 Heaven can Wait's - good stuff??? :ph34r:

#194 TD Floater

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 01:50 PM

And...........
Did anything else, helpful come out of the chat?

#195 Heaven can wait

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 02:02 PM

And...........
Did anything else, helpful come out of the chat?

Yep,

They're well aware of the New Regs, however they're continuing on as per normal, until the hammer drops.

There concern is if the YA enforce the issue, which is planned in due course, Spells dark music for our beloved MPONR -

Seems to me that the MPONR organizers are quite interested in the goings on with the HcW24-hour. Brothers in Arms I feel and together I believe we have a pretty strong case why these sort of Races are for and should always be for the Sailing enthusiast not Politics - and thats all it is "Tossers on the Hill".

#196 TD Floater

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 02:21 PM

That's what I expected from the MPONR organisers. You guys are the same monster, but different enough to not threat one another. Together you are a lot stronger.

Brothers-in-arms stuff, nice.

Bugger the blighters, I will sign waivers to race in an unYA event.

How could you be any where near as dangerous as countless other races? With all the support and safety that is already available or in place, you leave almost all the coastal/passage races behind.

#197 Heaven can wait

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 02:46 PM

My thoughts exactly,

John (MPONR) gave a nice quote "The YA will want you to hold hands soon". He's not wrong - go figure.

The Lake Wellington Yacht Club depends on the MPONR to survive, seems the outside powers that be have other agenda.

Actually, my main problem is not the YA, it's Wyong Shire Council - now there's a bunch of Wackers?

To have a Yacht Race we need an Event Licence - 30page Document? :ph34r:

#198 TD Floater

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 03:09 PM

Perhaps the HcW24hr Cruise!
smiley thing, smiley thing, smiley thing

#199 TD Floater

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 03:12 PM

Only the 2nd page in Sportsboat history to make it to 5.

A proud day for Daddy Heaven.

#200 Heaven can wait

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Posted 15 July 2005 - 03:17 PM

Perhaps the HcW24hr Cruise!
smiley thing, smiley thing, smiley thing

I hope not, when I start the race, I'm there to race.

Actually, that's part of the intregue of the Race, there's some pretty Hot boats looking at the Race and in serious fashion too.

With ten or 11 45-50 footers so far confirming accommodation, it's game on?




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