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lifting foils needed for soft sail Class C


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#1 Cakewalk

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 06:20 AM

Under 400lb carbon class C, 25ft,14 ft beam,tall rig
Who has foils to make her fly?
Thanks, Stephen Marcoe r2akteamgoldenoldies on fb

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#2 Fat Point Jack

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 10:15 AM

Is that the one that was advertised on Catsailor awhile back?

 

Looks like a cool ride.



#3 Catfan

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 11:19 AM

The cat pictured is 1991 Little America's Cup Challenger "Freedom's Wing". Designed by Gino Morelli & Pete Melvin who also helped the built, it is the first M&M's first project together. Skippered by Pete Melvin it was defeated by the Australian Defender The Edge III, mainly for the catastrofic failure of the beams during a race.    



#4 Mizzmo

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 01:53 PM

Is this an R2AK boat?



#5 Cakewalk

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 04:27 PM

A class C boat did race the first leg of the 2015/2016 r2ak but not this one.
She has new rudders, Marstrom mast,and the beams look new, so they must of been replaced.
She was raced hard in San Francisco, so the beam issue appears to of been resolved.
She has two mainsails, one over size, another good reason to find lifting boards.
Everyone and their mother is designing lifting foils,at current prices it would be nice to get the right ones on the first try

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#6 Trov„o

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 04:34 PM

does the soft sail generate enough power for it to fully foil?



#7 Steve Clark

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 05:27 PM

PM me with your email.

I have some stuff.

SHC



#8 swangtang

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 06:41 PM

Out of curiosity how much is a soft sail C class going for these days? 



#9 Scarecrow

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 08:41 AM

Ronstan was listed in gumtree Australia 6 months ago can't find the ad or remember the price though.

#10 darth reapius

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 04:48 AM

Ronstan was listed in gumtree Australia 6 months ago can't find the ad or remember the price though.

 

Was sold some time ago, $10k, but this was a re-sell, he had only purchased the boat within the last few years with aspirations of re-doing the foiling C, wing/soft sailed, but I doubt it he finished it, as it was going to be a monster project and the new AD had no new photos, no idea what'd happened to it now, assuming sold again, or given up and locked it away sadly.



#11 Munter

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 07:29 AM

You'd have a pretty small pool of potential C-class foil sellers but hey - it doesn't hurt to ask!



#12 samc99us

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 12:58 PM

Certainly boats out there for pennies on the dollar...are older boats strong enough to take foiling loads??



#13 mili

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 01:51 PM

Certainly boats out there for pennies on the dollar...are older boats strong enough to take foiling loads??

I could put it the other way round, too heavy for foiling?



#14 samc99us

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 05:28 PM

I don't think it will be "too heavy" for foiling, just heavier than would be if designed from scratch for foiling. How much? Maybe not enough to really matter; I would agree that getting the right foils (i.e a set from Groupama C's foil molds, which as I understand it may or may not be the same as the foils for the Flying Phantom) are more important than almost anything else. 4 point foiling solution? That would also be trick and probably faster in the water than the 3 point solution, but maybe not on a distance race where the number of tacks and gybes is lower.



#15 blunted

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 05:39 PM

Call Rob at Paterson composites.

 

He has foils of a variety of shapes and sizes in stock. We also have tooling down there for the right kind of foils as FYH had a full set built and installed but never tested following the great shit show of 2013.



#16 samc99us

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 05:47 PM

Right on their homepage: http://patersoncomposites.ca/

 

Blunted, are ya'll coming back to the C anytime soon???



#17 mili

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 06:02 PM

My guess is the C class is facing extinction. Too many new foilers around, and too expensive. It's a shame. IMHO. Could have been aotherwise if AC hadn´t turned into foilers and small cats



#18 samc99us

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 07:51 PM

The C class has always been on the verge of extinction, but recall it is also the class that invented the wing sail and brought foiling tech from the AC into beach cat sized boats. I agree there are plenty of new foilers on the market that are easier to go sail than a C with less risk of expensive crashes but there is no box or development rule for them to play in, they don't have the wings and the don't have the design efforts that the C class adds to the mix, nor do they have the speed or grace. I think what happened is Groupama C came in with a big budget, AC level program and re-defined what a modern C is, and its going to take a while for any normal C class to match and/or beat that, so for now, whoever is in possession of Groupama C is the odds on favorite to win. I'm optimistic there will be another exciting development effort for the C class when they pick an appropriate site for their next worlds; we haven't seen how the 4 point foiling solution works in a C, or what the latest U.S or Canadian boats would look like with the knowledge gleamed from the last championship rounds...



#19 Bench Warmer

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 09:15 PM

May be a Nacra 20 foils kit could make it ?



#20 Scarecrow

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Posted 19 December 2016 - 10:43 PM

Didn't the British team experiment with a pair of Nacra foils at one stage.

#21 blunted

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 11:56 AM

@sam

Nothing in the cards right now I am afraid, I / we went all in last time with effort, time etc and it was kind of all consuming. I had to step away from the flame for a bit.

 

Been doing some big cruises with the fam, a Mack here and there, will go see some races in BDA come the spring. Right now just trying to work off the spare tire and get back into some kind of fighting form.



#22 atefooterz

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 12:54 PM

@sam

Nothing in the cards right now I am afraid, I / we went all in last time with effort, time etc and it was kind of all consuming. I had to step away from the flame for a bit.

 

Been doing some big cruises with the fam, a Mack here and there, will go see some races in BDA come the spring. Right now just trying to work off the spare tire and get back into some kind of fighting form.

Growing up in awe of AC big & little i always thought the 4 or so years between each session was for a good reason!



#23 Lost in Translation

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Posted 20 December 2016 - 01:48 PM

There is a growing set of A Class sailors in the Toronto area Blunted if we can tempt you and others on the C team.

#24 Cakewalk

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 06:25 AM

Good news, bad news, I found several usable foils, but now wondering what it will take to build up the hulls to handle them.
the good news is the rear beam was built up to handle the huge main sheet loads due to the soft sail, which are very little on a winged boat

#25 samc99us

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 01:13 PM

That's the concern I brought up cakewalk. It may be more effort than its worth. You can get away with this on the A cat as in reality those boats, pre-foiling, were generally overbuilt due to materials limits and cost (you could build non foiling A cat hulls with some pretty dang thin laminates, like 3oz carbon, but that would triple materials cost, so no one did that). C's are not overbuilt as cost concerns are generally thrown to the wind. Anyway, maybe swap the front beam and the rear beam and do some reinforcing to the old front beam to take the soft sail mainsheet loads? Maybe Hall has some new beams kicking about? Would be curious what Steve suggested regarding this, I'm weighing the move to a high modulus carbon front beam on my A.



#26 Cakewalk

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Posted 22 December 2016 - 07:46 PM

Both beams have been replaced to sail in her current configuration,my one day experience was she was hard to hold down, but we weren't using harnesses.
Steve does have trick foils for sale, but no rudders, and we didn't talk about reinforcing. I Thought she could be built up on the outside with minimal effort.
So even though foiling looks fun it may make more sense to race her as is and know when the wind is under 8 knots she is unbeatable. Thanks, Stephen




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