Jump to content


Navtec finished?


  • Please log in to reply
84 replies to this topic

#1 Nettles

Nettles

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,447 posts
  • Location:Mumbledead

Posted 30 January 2017 - 09:57 PM

I just heard from someone who would know that Navtec has closed.

 

Anyone know anything?



#2 Rob Zabukovec

Rob Zabukovec

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 394 posts
  • Location:Tasmania
  • Interests:Multihulls, especially Proas

Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:12 PM

Maybe not the whole business, just the end of some product lines. Eg: Norseman Gibb????

http://www.navtecrig...s.com/news.html

#3 Nettles

Nettles

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,447 posts
  • Location:Mumbledead

Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:16 PM

Hope you're right Rob.



#4 J/120

J/120

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 250 posts

Posted 30 January 2017 - 10:32 PM

They are closed from what I heard.

 

Sucks that two went down this month. 



#5 Leo from Rio

Leo from Rio

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 492 posts
  • Location:Guanabara Bay

Posted 31 January 2017 - 12:31 PM

Confirmed closing.

And there's another, UNNAMED, northeast raceboat building company which will likely be shuttering their doors soon.

#6 Snow Guy

Snow Guy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 879 posts
  • Location:The Cove, CT

Posted 31 January 2017 - 02:52 PM

Navtec France is still operational. Navtec USA is currently closed.

Website has not been updated yet. I'm sure it will be when the owners figure out how things will move forward.

#7 Leo from Rio

Leo from Rio

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 492 posts
  • Location:Guanabara Bay

Posted 31 January 2017 - 03:39 PM

Someone could consolidate the industry very nicely by buying up Navtec and Hall and centralizing the production of each.



#8 mgs

mgs

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Location:maine
  • Interests:Canoeing and hiking and such

Posted 31 January 2017 - 07:08 PM

Well this is a drag, but think about.
Standing rigging:
Wire they haven't done in a couple years maybe
Fiber they haven't stayed relevant in a while (nothing in the Vendee I remember hearing)
Rod they had a good market but have struggled to provide material. Some one probably will start making rod parts to compensate for the loss. Or BSI share goes up in the US

Hydraulics:
That's a bigger loss I think. Sure sailtec is a less expensive option, but not the best looking product. Harken looks great and you certainly pay for it. Yeah the existing stuff out there can still be serviced but if any parts need to be replaced...

We shall see.

#9 Luca Brasi

Luca Brasi

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 491 posts

Posted 01 February 2017 - 12:36 AM

Someone could consolidate the industry very nicely by buying up Navtec and Hall and centralizing the production of each.


Consolidate the industry... the market share that both Navtec and Hall USA had was dick.

The potential to harvest bussiness Yes..

Said but J70's and C&C 30 aren't going to keep the industry going along with J boats.

Lets face it the sail industry is really hurting right now more than ever.

I hope the best to all of us still making a living at it.

Best.

#10 zzrider

zzrider

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,840 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted 01 February 2017 - 12:59 AM

Well, last spring when I had a bunch of work done on my rod standing rigging, my rigger went with BSI because he said just couldn't get stuff from Navtec.

Hate to see it happen though. Hate the idea of the day when the industry has failed to point where maintaining our boats becomes simply impossible...

#11 savoir

savoir

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,622 posts

Posted 01 February 2017 - 01:20 AM

They lost the rights to sell Dyform a few years back. Someone else had always owned the patent and pulled the pin. Shame. It was a great product.



#12 sunseeker

sunseeker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,310 posts

Posted 01 February 2017 - 03:44 AM

Someone could consolidate the industry very nicely by buying up Navtec and Hall and centralizing the production of each.

Consolidate the industry... the market share that both Navtec and Hall USA had was dick.

The potential to harvest bussiness Yes..

Said but J70's and C&C 30 aren't going to keep the industry going along with J boats.

Lets face it the sail industry is really hurting right now more than ever.

I hope the best to all of us still making a living at it.

Best.

There is only one aspect of the marine industry that is growing and that's the ego of some guys who get paid to sail.

#13 jc172528

jc172528

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,732 posts

Posted 01 February 2017 - 05:50 AM

They lost the rights to sell Dyform a few years back. Someone else had always owned the patent and pulled the pin. Shame. It was a great product.

 

You can still get Dyform, it's now called Hammerpro or Hammersmith. Just re-rigged with it.



#14 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,430 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 01 February 2017 - 04:25 PM

 

 

Someone could consolidate the industry very nicely by buying up Navtec and Hall and centralizing the production of each.

Consolidate the industry... the market share that both Navtec and Hall USA had was dick.

The potential to harvest bussiness Yes..

Said but J70's and C&C 30 aren't going to keep the industry going along with J boats.

Lets face it the sail industry is really hurting right now more than ever.

I hope the best to all of us still making a living at it.

Best.

There is only one aspect of the marine industry that is growing and that's the ego of some guys who get paid to sail.

 

That is what killed the sport



#15 SPARSRUS

SPARSRUS

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 76 posts

Posted 01 February 2017 - 10:57 PM

 

They lost the rights to sell Dyform a few years back. Someone else had always owned the patent and pulled the pin. Shame. It was a great product.

 

You can still get Dyform, it's now called Hammerpro or Hammersmith. Just re-rigged with it.

 

Compact Strand is essentially the same product. We've used lots and it is just as good or better than Dyform and readily available. Hayn is building common rod parts and doing a nice job with it. It has been years since Navtec has been able to provide a consistent supply of rod and parts so most distributors have found alternate sources. BSI makes a quality product, but they are more expensive than Navtec was. They are really busy since Navtec's demise, so lead times are getting longer. It will be interesting to see what shakes out. I know of at least one company that is interested in what remains of Navtec. 



#16 mgs

mgs

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 87 posts
  • Location:maine
  • Interests:Canoeing and hiking and such

Posted 04 February 2017 - 12:09 PM

I heard a rumor about a spar company buying them

#17 McGriddle

McGriddle

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 22 posts

Posted 04 February 2017 - 02:52 PM

Hathaway Reiser and Raymond closed its doors back in November. They were in business since 1890!!

https://www.hathaways.com/

#18 Christian

Christian

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,233 posts
  • Location:Hopefully on the water

Posted 04 February 2017 - 07:03 PM

Hathaway Reiser and Raymond closed its doors back in November. They were in business since 1890!!

https://www.hathaways.com/

Sad



#19 Random People

Random People

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 911 posts

Posted 05 February 2017 - 12:44 AM

 

Hathaway Reiser and Raymond closed its doors back in November. They were in business since 1890!!

https://www.hathaways.com/

Sad

 

 

Sure is.  Just shows how pressured all the "in close to NYC" maritime businesses are.... like the disappeared Brewer's yard in Stamford.  Real estate is so valuable and costs and taxes are so high that all those businesses are at risk.  Plus, North is such a juggernaut that its almost surprising Hathaways hung in as long as it did... though yeah, they were more of a rigging/hardware shop than pure loft.



#20 The Commodore

The Commodore

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 183 posts
  • Interests:To t-bone a j class boat while on port tack at a bucket regatta.

Posted 05 February 2017 - 11:06 PM

It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.

If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.



#21 MSA

MSA

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,022 posts
  • Location:Perth

Posted 06 February 2017 - 02:02 AM

It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.

If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.

The Universe doesn't revolve around 'merica.. Just so you know..



#22 allen

allen

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,206 posts
  • Location:SF Bay

Posted 06 February 2017 - 04:16 AM

 

It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.

If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.

The Universe doesn't revolve around 'merica.. Just so you know..

 

Less and less every day...



#23 toddster

toddster

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,363 posts
  • Location:The Gorge

Posted 06 February 2017 - 04:26 AM

Well... on the bright side, the backstay insulators (among other things) are half off on the WM outlet webpage.

#24 The Commodore

The Commodore

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 183 posts
  • Interests:To t-bone a j class boat while on port tack at a bucket regatta.

Posted 06 February 2017 - 01:16 PM

 

It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.

If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.

The Universe doesn't revolve around 'merica.. Just so you know..

 

All as you need do is look at GDP rankings to understand how important  the health of the US economy is to a recreational activity like sailing. It is not a matter of how you feel about the US, it is a matter of how the American dollars fuels the world economy.

 

 

United States 18,561.934 24.7 1

China 11,391.619 15.1 2

Japan 4,730.300 6.29 3

Germany 3,494.898 4.65 4

United Kingdom 2,649.893 3.52 5

France 2,488.284 3.31 6

India 2,250.987 2.99 7

Italy 1,852.499 2.46 8

Brazil 1,769.601 2.35 9

Canada 1,532.343 2.04 10



#25 us7070

us7070

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,148 posts

Posted 06 February 2017 - 01:58 PM

but sailing is a niche activity.., and all you have to do is take a quick look at europe to see that the european economy probably has a greater direct  effect on the health of sailing-specific manufacturers than the US economy

 

they build and/or sell _many_ many more new larger sailboats in europe than in the USA

 

X-Yachts alone might sell 50 or more new boats a year 40ft and larger - how many US sailboat builders can say that?

 

how many new boats larger than 40ft has Jboats sold in the USA over the last 5 years? the new 121 is giving them some sales now, but the long term averages are low 

 

now if you want to argue that the european economy hasn't been very strong either - you can.., but on the other hand boat sales have not fallen through the floor there - they are pretty strong



#26 MSA

MSA

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,022 posts
  • Location:Perth

Posted 06 February 2017 - 02:05 PM

 

 

It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.

If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.

The Universe doesn't revolve around 'merica.. Just so you know..

 

All as you need do is look at GDP rankings to understand how important  the health of the US economy is to a recreational activity like sailing. It is not a matter of how you feel about the US, it is a matter of how the American dollars fuels the world economy.

 

 

United States 18,561.934 24.7 1

China 11,391.619 15.1 2

Japan 4,730.300 6.29 3

Germany 3,494.898 4.65 4

United Kingdom 2,649.893 3.52 5

France 2,488.284 3.31 6

India 2,250.987 2.99 7

Italy 1,852.499 2.46 8

Brazil 1,769.601 2.35 9

Canada 1,532.343 2.04 10

 

 

The problem with statistics is they are just that.

The US dollar yes, but look where a lot (maybe most) of the items we rely on are made, engineered etc etc. Just because some knobs on Wall street convinced a bunch of wealthy blokes to buy profitable companies and siphon the cash back into the US, doesn't mean we rely on the US. It means we have been forced to indirectly fund a place that likes to think it is the center of the universe. It's pretty easy to control markets when just keep printing cash and racking up the worlds largest debt.....

 

Cars - Asia (I think my Mercedes was actually made in South Africa)

Whitegoods - Asia

Oil - Middle east/other places (We even have our own Oil rigs believe it or not!)

Food - Global, mainly local

Cell Phones - Asia

Your computer - Asia

Your Office desk - probably Mexico.

Your Office and house cleaner - Probably Mexico

 

I cant think of one thing I use in my day to day, or purchase, that is made in the US.. Maybe Californian Oranges when ours are out of season... Oh and Netflix.. oh and google, those guys are smart.



#27 zzrider

zzrider

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,840 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted 06 February 2017 - 02:17 PM

It seems to me that the condition of sailing as an activity and industry in the USA has less to do with the overall health of the nation's economy than it does with social and cultural factors.  Sure it's an expensive hobby, but definitely not out of reach for the middle-class on up; it's a matter of priorities.  People have other things to choose to spend their money on.  There seems to be no shortage of expensive luxury cars & SUVs on the road, and residential real estate is back into ludicrous bubble territory.  There's lots of fun and expensive toys competing for our dollars.

 

Sailing is expensive enough that for most people, getting involved with it (as a boat owner) requires some significant sacrifices in other areas.  And then even the small number of people who will make the sacrifice to get out on the water seem to prefer the instant gratification of a powerboat over the long learning curve and the patient finesse of sailing.  



#28 Slim

Slim

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,015 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted 06 February 2017 - 02:36 PM

 

 

 

It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.

If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.

The Universe doesn't revolve around 'merica.. Just so you know..

 

All as you need do is look at GDP rankings to understand how important  the health of the US economy is to a recreational activity like sailing. It is not a matter of how you feel about the US, it is a matter of how the American dollars fuels the world economy.

 

 

United States 18,561.934 24.7 1

China 11,391.619 15.1 2

Japan 4,730.300 6.29 3

Germany 3,494.898 4.65 4

United Kingdom 2,649.893 3.52 5

France 2,488.284 3.31 6

India 2,250.987 2.99 7

Italy 1,852.499 2.46 8

Brazil 1,769.601 2.35 9

Canada 1,532.343 2.04 10

 

 

The problem with statistics is they are just that.

The US dollar yes, but look where a lot (maybe most) of the items we rely on are made, engineered etc etc. Just because some knobs on Wall street convinced a bunch of wealthy blokes to buy profitable companies and siphon the cash back into the US, doesn't mean we rely on the US. It means we have been forced to indirectly fund a place that likes to think it is the center of the universe. It's pretty easy to control markets when just keep printing cash and racking up the worlds largest debt.....

 

Cars - Asia (I think my Mercedes was actually made in South Africa)

Whitegoods - Asia

Oil - Middle east/other places (We even have our own Oil rigs believe it or not!)

Food - Global, mainly local

Cell Phones - Asia

Your computer - Asia

Your Office desk - probably Mexico.

Your Office and house cleaner - Probably Mexico

 

I cant think of one thing I use in my day to day, or purchase, that is made in the US.. Maybe Californian Oranges when ours are out of season... Oh and Netflix.. oh and google, those guys are smart.

 

Ok Grumpus.

 

In 2015, U.S. net imports (imports minus exports) of petroleum from foreign countries were equal to about 24% of U.S. petroleum consumption, the lowest level since 1970.

 

The U.S. is the second largest manufacturer of cars in the world, after China. 

 

FAKTS!



#29 us7070

us7070

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,148 posts

Posted 06 February 2017 - 02:39 PM

It seems to me that the condition of sailing as an activity and industry in the USA has less to do with the overall health of the nation's economy than it does with social and cultural factors.  Sure it's an expensive hobby, but definitely not out of reach for the middle-class on up; it's a matter of priorities. 

 

yes - the economy goes through good periods and it goes through bad periods.., both here and in europe

 

particularly if you look at northern european countries.., they have more or less the same wealth as the USA

 

the difference is that no matter what the state of the economy at any given time.., europeans are willing to spend more of their money on buying sailboats than are americans

 

this is particularly true for the higher quality, mid size and larger boats that might be likely to use navtec equipment.

 

the difference between US and european sailing is largely due to cultural factors - as zzrider has said



#30 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,430 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 06 February 2017 - 04:09 PM

It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.

If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.

There is always cycling for everyone once sailboat racing is officially dead 



#31 LeoV

LeoV

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,986 posts
  • Location:The Netherlands

Posted 06 February 2017 - 04:13 PM

this is particularly true for the higher quality, mid size and larger boats that might be likely to use navtec equipment.

 

the difference between US and european sailing is largely due to cultural factors - as zzrider has said

 

 

I thought for a moment that motorboats are much more popular in the US, instead of sailing. Then thought hey, oil prices differ greatly between US and Eu, but its only 1.67 to 0.67 a liter. (http://www.globalpet...asoline_prices/)

So maybe the Eu learn to sail as they are to cheap :)



#32 us7070

us7070

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,148 posts

Posted 06 February 2017 - 04:14 PM

 

It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.

If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.

There is always cycling for everyone once sailboat racing is officially dead 

 

 

it's only dead in the usa

 

so, if you don't like cycling - just move!



#33 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,430 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 06 February 2017 - 04:17 PM

 

 

It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.

If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.

There is always cycling for everyone once sailboat racing is officially dead 

 

 

it's only dead in the usa

 

so, if you don't like cycling - just move!

 

True



#34 hobot

hobot

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 22,162 posts
  • Location:Riggers Hollow Archipelago, Wa. USA

Posted 06 February 2017 - 04:56 PM

 

 

It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.
If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.

There is always cycling for everyone once sailboat racing is officially dead 
 
 
it's only dead in the usa
 
so, if you don't like cycling - just move!
 
True
When does Cycling Anarchy launch?

#35 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,430 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 06 February 2017 - 05:05 PM

 

 

 

 

It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.
If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.

There is always cycling for everyone once sailboat racing is officially dead 
 
 
it's only dead in the usa
 
so, if you don't like cycling - just move!
 
True
When does Cycling Anarchy launch?

 

I really have a hard time not to turn my comments to some on Strava into what I would say on SA 



#36 MSA

MSA

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,022 posts
  • Location:Perth

Posted 07 February 2017 - 07:21 AM

 

 

 

 

It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.

If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.

The Universe doesn't revolve around 'merica.. Just so you know..

 

All as you need do is look at GDP rankings to understand how important  the health of the US economy is to a recreational activity like sailing. It is not a matter of how you feel about the US, it is a matter of how the American dollars fuels the world economy.

 

 

United States 18,561.934 24.7 1

China 11,391.619 15.1 2

Japan 4,730.300 6.29 3

Germany 3,494.898 4.65 4

United Kingdom 2,649.893 3.52 5

France 2,488.284 3.31 6

India 2,250.987 2.99 7

Italy 1,852.499 2.46 8

Brazil 1,769.601 2.35 9

Canada 1,532.343 2.04 10

 

 

The problem with statistics is they are just that.

The US dollar yes, but look where a lot (maybe most) of the items we rely on are made, engineered etc etc. Just because some knobs on Wall street convinced a bunch of wealthy blokes to buy profitable companies and siphon the cash back into the US, doesn't mean we rely on the US. It means we have been forced to indirectly fund a place that likes to think it is the center of the universe. It's pretty easy to control markets when just keep printing cash and racking up the worlds largest debt.....

 

Cars - Asia (I think my Mercedes was actually made in South Africa)

Whitegoods - Asia

Oil - Middle east/other places (We even have our own Oil rigs believe it or not!)

Food - Global, mainly local

Cell Phones - Asia

Your computer - Asia

Your Office desk - probably Mexico.

Your Office and house cleaner - Probably Mexico

 

I cant think of one thing I use in my day to day, or purchase, that is made in the US.. Maybe Californian Oranges when ours are out of season... Oh and Netflix.. oh and google, those guys are smart.

 

Ok Grumpus.

 

In 2015, U.S. net imports (imports minus exports) of petroleum from foreign countries were equal to about 24% of U.S. petroleum consumption, the lowest level since 1970.

 

The U.S. is the second largest manufacturer of cars in the world, after China. 

 

FAKTS!

 

if boasting about oil and how many cars you make is the measure of greatness then you still arent #1.. Not even close when it comes to manufacturing.

 

In 16 years, your Car manufacturing has had Zero growth. And china has smashed you out of the park.

Not to mention you guys spell words wrong...



#37 Slim

Slim

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,015 posts
  • Location:New England

Posted 07 February 2017 - 04:49 PM

Not bragging just quoting some stats. Just adding some colour to the theatre that is SA.



#38 Plumbean

Plumbean

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 156 posts

Posted 07 February 2017 - 06:04 PM

Hathaway Reiser and Raymond closed its doors back in November. They were in business since 1890!!

https://www.hathaways.com/

 

What a bummer.  I grew up nearby and visiting there as a kid was always a treat (it got more expensive to visit as an adult).



#39 StumbleNola

StumbleNola

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 484 posts
  • Location:New Orleans
  • Interests:Um... Sailing

Posted 07 February 2017 - 06:16 PM






It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.
If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.


The Universe doesn't revolve around 'merica.. Just so you know..


All as you need do is look at GDP rankings to understand how important  the health of the US economy is to a recreational activity like sailing. It is not a matter of how you feel about the US, it is a matter of how the American dollars fuels the world economy.
 
 
United States 18,561.934 24.7 1
China 11,391.619 15.1 2
Japan 4,730.300 6.29 3
Germany 3,494.898 4.65 4
United Kingdom 2,649.893 3.52 5
France 2,488.284 3.31 6
India 2,250.987 2.99 7
Italy 1,852.499 2.46 8
Brazil 1,769.601 2.35 9
Canada 1,532.343 2.04 10


 
The problem with statistics is they are just that.
The US dollar yes, but look where a lot (maybe most) of the items we rely on are made, engineered etc etc. Just because some knobs on Wall street convinced a bunch of wealthy blokes to buy profitable companies and siphon the cash back into the US, doesn't mean we rely on the US. It means we have been forced to indirectly fund a place that likes to think it is the center of the universe. It's pretty easy to control markets when just keep printing cash and racking up the worlds largest debt.....
 
Cars - Asia (I think my Mercedes was actually made in South Africa)
Whitegoods - Asia
Oil - Middle east/other places (We even have our own Oil rigs believe it or not!)
Food - Global, mainly local
Cell Phones - Asia
Your computer - Asia
Your Office desk - probably Mexico.
Your Office and house cleaner - Probably Mexico
 
I cant think of one thing I use in my day to day, or purchase, that is made in the US.. Maybe Californian Oranges when ours are out of season... Oh and Netflix.. oh and google, those guys are smart.


Ok Grumpus.
 
In 2015, U.S. net imports (imports minus exports) of petroleum from foreign countries were equal to about 24% of U.S. petroleum consumption, the lowest level since 1970.
 
The U.S. is the second largest manufacturer of cars in the world, after China. 
 
FAKTS!


if boasting about oil and how many cars you make is the measure of greatness then you still arent #1.. Not even close when it comes to manufacturing.
 
In 16 years, your Car manufacturing has had Zero growth. And china has smashed you out of the park.
Not to mention you guys spell words wrong...




Absolute and utter nonsense.

The US manufacturing sector actually set a new record for output last year, and continues to grow. We produce more now than we ever have, and the numbers keep going up.

Sure we import massive amounts of petroleum, but we also export a huge percentage of the worlds refined products like gas, diesel, and fuel oil.

Chine does a lot of the final assembly, but about 75% of computer chips are made in the US. Because that's how modern supply lines work. The US makes the chips Andrew glass, Germany does the cases, Mexico builds the o-rings, and Chinese labor does final assembly, but the high dollar and very difficult manufacturing processes are done in the US.

We don't produce huge amounts of mid grade steel anymore, but one of our largest sectors is still producing high quality specialized steal for infrastructure. If you want or need spec steel the US is still the place to get it. Which is why Hyundai Steel built a massive plant in Alabama making steel for the auto industry. Mini-mills turning out high spec steel makes up about 65% of our steel production, generating $120 billion in sales a year.


The fact is that the US manufacturing sector has a massive global reach, what has changed is the introduction of robotics in US factories. You simply don't need as many people to operate machinery as you once did. My first job, moving metal parts from one machine to another in a factory, is simply not done by hand anymore and never will be again, at least in the US.

#40 us7070

us7070

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,148 posts

Posted 07 February 2017 - 06:22 PM

fascinating....



#41 toddster

toddster

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,363 posts
  • Location:The Gorge

Posted 07 February 2017 - 08:26 PM



The fact is that the US manufacturing sector has a massive global reach, what has changed is the introduction of robotics in US factories. You simply don't need as many people to operate machinery as you once did. My first job, moving metal parts from one machine to another in a factory, is simply not done by hand anymore and never will be again, at least in the US.

 

 

Yep, I had one of those jobs too.  And spent half the time thinking of how easy it would be to make a machine to do that work.  I was basically replaced by a pump.  But by that time had moved up to QC.  

The funny thing is, I drive by that factory today and there are huge banners up along the interstate in English and Spanish, "Workers Needed!"  They just can't get anybody to do the work.  Of course the pay is shit.  As soon as machine vision picks up a notch, that place will go to total automation.  



#42 rgeek

rgeek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,332 posts

Posted 07 February 2017 - 09:09 PM

Ah now lads. To many actual facts for one evening. Do you mind?



#43 Scott Dinhofer

Scott Dinhofer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 166 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 09 February 2017 - 05:25 PM


True
When does Cycling Anarchy launch?

 

triathlon saved me a ton of money over sailing. I drink less, I don't have to buy drinks for crew and my bike while possibly costing the same as my J44 Mainsail, lasts much longer AND has resale. value... 

 

@johnny - there IS the bike equivilant of SA, not sure what it is, in triathlon, it's called slowtwitch and the beatings are much much more intense!



#44 StumbleNola

StumbleNola

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 484 posts
  • Location:New Orleans
  • Interests:Um... Sailing

Posted 09 February 2017 - 07:14 PM

The fact is that the US manufacturing sector has a massive global reach, what has changed is the introduction of robotics in US factories. You simply don't need as many people to operate machinery as you once did. My first job, moving metal parts from one machine to another in a factory, is simply not done by hand anymore and never will be again, at least in the US.

 
 
Yep, I had one of those jobs too.  And spent half the time thinking of how easy it would be to make a machine to do that work.  I was basically replaced by a pump.  But by that time had moved up to QC.  
The funny thing is, I drive by that factory today and there are huge banners up along the interstate in English and Spanish, "Workers Needed!"  They just can't get anybody to do the work.  Of course the pay is shit.  As soon as machine vision picks up a notch, that place will go to total automation.

My job was later replaced with a conveyor belt, at least you got a pump.

When I think of the loss of manufacturing jobs that's what I always remember... I go to paid $10/hr in ~1992 to be a conveyor belt, not bad wages for rural Mississippi. The guy to my right was a welder and made $20 or so, his job was to apply four welds. The exact same four welds over and over all day long (seat tabs on stack chairs).

Both of our jobs are now probably being done by robots, or labor that's so cheap it doesn't matter, but those jobs are never going to come back, their is just not enough value added to the proposition. And robots don't get boared making the same weld hundreds of times a day, four days a week, fourty eight weeks a year, for twenty five years, and don't expect a retirement package when they can't work any more.

#45 carcrash

carcrash

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,068 posts
  • Location:Waikiki YC, Grenada YC, LA, NY, and Maine

Posted 09 February 2017 - 07:28 PM

So who makes Nitronic rod now?



#46 Jammer Six

Jammer Six

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 996 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 09 February 2017 - 08:42 PM

Finally.

 

Neither NavTec or Navionics deserve to survive.



#47 Bob Perry

Bob Perry

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,840 posts

Posted 09 February 2017 - 08:56 PM

Sorry to see Navtec go. I used a lot of their rod. The Valiant 40's were standard with Navtec after hull No 5 as I recall. We had one failure due to an improperly installed backstay unsulator.

At the least the Navtec catalog was an excellent resource. I still have mine.



#48 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,430 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 09 February 2017 - 09:03 PM

 

True
When does Cycling Anarchy launch?

 

triathlon saved me a ton of money over sailing. I drink less, I don't have to buy drinks for crew and my bike while possibly costing the same as my J44 Mainsail, lasts much longer AND has resale. value... 

 

@johnny - there IS the bike equivilant of SA, not sure what it is, in triathlon, it's called slowtwitch and the beatings are much much more intense!

 

And you get the hang out and ride with me now.



#49 DavidG

DavidG

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 32 posts

Posted 09 February 2017 - 09:30 PM

Sorry to see Navtec go. I used a lot of their rod. The Valiant 40's were standard with Navtec after hull No 5 as I recall. We had one failure due to an improperly installed backstay unsulator.
At the least the Navtec catalog was an excellent resource. I still have mine.


With the Zeus tables ....

#50 gbr-aligator

gbr-aligator

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 104 posts
  • Location:CT

Posted 09 February 2017 - 11:31 PM

So who makes Nitronic rod now?


BSI. Bsidk.com

#51 carcrash

carcrash

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,068 posts
  • Location:Waikiki YC, Grenada YC, LA, NY, and Maine

Posted 10 February 2017 - 12:55 AM

Nitronic 50 rod comes on spools. Many specialty steel foundries (and there are a lot of those in the USA) make that stuff.

 

Making rod rigging from the raw material on a spool is straightforward, so a lot of rigging shops (or even just a few) can get the rod straightening equipment (standard industrial stuff) and the head forming equipment (also standard industrial stuff) to make replacement or new rod. 

 

The other bits and pieces are not commodity bulk items, but were CNC machined. Sure would be excellent if Navtec open sourced their CNC programs. That would be the way to properly respect decades of customers.



#52 Leo from Rio

Leo from Rio

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 492 posts
  • Location:Guanabara Bay

Posted 10 February 2017 - 02:43 AM

My source with knowledge of the deal says that there's a Midwest company with interest in buying navtec

#53 VMac

VMac

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,242 posts

Posted 11 February 2017 - 02:00 PM

 

True
When does Cycling Anarchy launch?

 

triathlon saved me a ton of money over sailing. I drink less, I don't have to buy drinks for crew and my bike while possibly costing the same as my J44 Mainsail, lasts much longer AND has resale. value... 

 

@johnny - there IS the bike equivilant of SA, not sure what it is, in triathlon, it's called slowtwitch and the beatings are much much more intense!

 

 

 

John dishing it out over on Slowtwitch....epic!

 

I can't stand that place. I thought SA place was bad. Just a bunch of middle aged men complaining about M-dot, drafting rules, supplemental T, Lance, course cutting, etc... Bunch of whiney babies that get drunk after 2 light beers.

 

Scott, what are you riding that costs as much as a J44 main!??



#54 mr_ryano

mr_ryano

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,017 posts
  • Location:Southeast of Disorder

Posted 11 February 2017 - 02:07 PM

 

True
When does Cycling Anarchy launch?

 

triathlon saved me a ton of money over sailing. I drink less, I don't have to buy drinks for crew and my bike while possibly costing the same as my J44 Mainsail, lasts much longer AND has resale. value... 

 

@johnny - there IS the bike equivilant of SA, not sure what it is, in triathlon, it's called slowtwitch and the beatings are much much more intense!

 

 

Bring the Brown Eyed Girl back!!!!!



#55 ExOmo

ExOmo

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,379 posts
  • Location:The Great Void

Posted 11 February 2017 - 05:33 PM

Nitronic 50 rod comes on spools. Many specialty steel foundries (and there are a lot of those in the USA) make that stuff.

 

Making rod rigging from the raw material on a spool is straightforward, so a lot of rigging shops (or even just a few) can get the rod straightening equipment (standard industrial stuff) and the head forming equipment (also standard industrial stuff) to make replacement or new rod. 

 

The other bits and pieces are not commodity bulk items, but were CNC machined. Sure would be excellent if Navtec open sourced their CNC programs. That would be the way to properly respect decades of customers.

 

With the exception of the big stuff I don't recall ever seeing a straight piece of rod out of Navtec......



#56 ropetrick

ropetrick

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,024 posts

Posted 11 February 2017 - 07:35 PM

 

Nitronic 50 rod comes on spools. Many specialty steel foundries (and there are a lot of those in the USA) make that stuff.

 

Making rod rigging from the raw material on a spool is straightforward, so a lot of rigging shops (or even just a few) can get the rod straightening equipment (standard industrial stuff) and the head forming equipment (also standard industrial stuff) to make replacement or new rod. 

 

The other bits and pieces are not commodity bulk items, but were CNC machined. Sure would be excellent if Navtec open sourced their CNC programs. That would be the way to properly respect decades of customers.

 

With the exception of the big stuff I don't recall ever seeing a straight piece of rod out of Navtec......

 

 

Load it up. Looks straight now.



#57 emmylou

emmylou

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 54 posts
  • Location:Hingham MA.
  • Interests:Marine composites
    all high end racing soft water and hard(ice)

Posted 11 February 2017 - 09:52 PM

Sorry to see Navtec go. I used a lot of their rod. The Valiant 40's were standard with Navtec after hull No 5 as I recall. We had one failure due to an improperly installed backstay unsulator.

At the least the Navtec catalog was an excellent resource. I still have mine.+1+

+1



#58 longy

longy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,199 posts
  • Location:San Diego

Posted 12 February 2017 - 03:10 PM

  Straight rod? we had to commission a new Farr 50 out of Hong Kong. Brand new boat, got shipped in to Hawaii for Clipper Cup. Unfortunately was loaded inside a hold, and hatch cover mechanism dripped grease on it the entire way. Had to pressure wash the deck to be able to stand up on it. Thought that was bad until we put the rig together - the rod had not really been straightened & the vertical hung from the spreaders like a spring - 7' off the deck. Had to winch the ends down to the turnbuckles. Turned out the owner was screwy also, only got paid the day before the series started, after we ran a length of 1/2" 1x19 around the dock, between the hull & shaft, & thru the wheel, nico pressing the ends together.



#59 ropetrick

ropetrick

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,024 posts

Posted 12 February 2017 - 03:29 PM

That is a pretty picture.



#60 CaptainAhab

CaptainAhab

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 197 posts
  • Location:South Australia
  • Interests:Finding the White Whale

Posted 13 February 2017 - 02:01 AM

 

 





It isn't the pros or the egos that have killed the sailing industry. It is the economy stupid! The sailing industry has always had boom and bust cycles directly tied to America's economic prosperity. America has just gone through a lost decade and certain aspects of the industry just could not hold on until the next boom cycle.
If you want to know how the economy is doing, just look at the marine industry.


The Universe doesn't revolve around 'merica.. Just so you know..


All as you need do is look at GDP rankings to understand how important  the health of the US economy is to a recreational activity like sailing. It is not a matter of how you feel about the US, it is a matter of how the American dollars fuels the world economy.
 
 
United States 18,561.934 24.7 1
China 11,391.619 15.1 2
Japan 4,730.300 6.29 3
Germany 3,494.898 4.65 4
United Kingdom 2,649.893 3.52 5
France 2,488.284 3.31 6
India 2,250.987 2.99 7
Italy 1,852.499 2.46 8
Brazil 1,769.601 2.35 9
Canada 1,532.343 2.04 10


 
The problem with statistics is they are just that.
The US dollar yes, but look where a lot (maybe most) of the items we rely on are made, engineered etc etc. Just because some knobs on Wall street convinced a bunch of wealthy blokes to buy profitable companies and siphon the cash back into the US, doesn't mean we rely on the US. It means we have been forced to indirectly fund a place that likes to think it is the center of the universe. It's pretty easy to control markets when just keep printing cash and racking up the worlds largest debt.....
 
Cars - Asia (I think my Mercedes was actually made in South Africa)
Whitegoods - Asia
Oil - Middle east/other places (We even have our own Oil rigs believe it or not!)
Food - Global, mainly local
Cell Phones - Asia
Your computer - Asia
Your Office desk - probably Mexico.
Your Office and house cleaner - Probably Mexico
 
I cant think of one thing I use in my day to day, or purchase, that is made in the US.. Maybe Californian Oranges when ours are out of season... Oh and Netflix.. oh and google, those guys are smart.


Ok Grumpus.
 
In 2015, U.S. net imports (imports minus exports) of petroleum from foreign countries were equal to about 24% of U.S. petroleum consumption, the lowest level since 1970.
 
The U.S. is the second largest manufacturer of cars in the world, after China. 
 
FAKTS!

if boasting about oil and how many cars you make is the measure of greatness then you still arent #1.. Not even close when it comes to manufacturing.
 
In 16 years, your Car manufacturing has had Zero growth. And china has smashed you out of the park.
Not to mention you guys spell words wrong...



Absolute and utter nonsense.

The US manufacturing sector actually set a new record for output last year, and continues to grow. We produce more now than we ever have, and the numbers keep going up.

Sure we import massive amounts of petroleum, but we also export a huge percentage of the worlds refined products like gas, diesel, and fuel oil.

Chine does a lot of the final assembly, but about 75% of computer chips are made in the US. Because that's how modern supply lines work. The US makes the chips Andrew glass, Germany does the cases, Mexico builds the o-rings, and Chinese labor does final assembly, but the high dollar and very difficult manufacturing processes are done in the US.

We don't produce huge amounts of mid grade steel anymore, but one of our largest sectors is still producing high quality specialized steal for infrastructure. If you want or need spec steel the US is still the place to get it. Which is why Hyundai Steel built a massive plant in Alabama making steel for the auto industry. Mini-mills turning out high spec steel makes up about 65% of our steel production, generating $120 billion in sales a year.


The fact is that the US manufacturing sector has a massive global reach, what has changed is the introduction of robotics in US factories. You simply don't need as many people to operate machinery as you once did. My first job, moving metal parts from one machine to another in a factory, is simply not done by hand anymore and never will be again, at least in the US.

I just read that China is really pissed because it can't manufacture the tiny ball bearing used in the tip of ball point pens. They obviously make shit loads of pens, but they have to import the balls from the US, Germany or Japan. It explains why their cartridge bearings are also shite.



#61 Tessellate

Tessellate

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:18 PM

 ... BSI makes a quality product, but they are more expensive than Navtec was. They are really busy since Navtec's demise, so lead times are getting longer. ... 

 

I can confirm that since I've been waiting for my rod order from BSI going on 7 weeks now. 2-3 months since my rigger first gave them the preliminary order. Shocking since we expected the rerig to take 3 weeks, and had done a month of planning to ensure BSI had all the parts ready to go (even after that, they didn't). Now that I know about the Navtec news this explains things a bit. 

 
Sadly, rod rigging is a niche market inside a niche market (sailboat rigging is already a niche market, since it's small potatoes compared to what most of the world is using wire for - bridges and architectural stuff). 
 
The biggest takeaway I've had is to more seriously consider doing a wire conversion next time and/or avoiding rod if I ever buy a new boat. One distributor is not good for competitiveness and availability. 

 



#62 DDW

DDW

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,428 posts

Posted 14 February 2017 - 04:49 PM

GDP of California - US$2.4 trillion. GDP of Australia - US$1.2 trillion (source, IMF 2015). 

 

Just the fact that GDPs are always quoted in USD is all you need to know. Ever heard the worlds GDPs quoted in Renminbi? Even the Chinese don't do that. 

 

Too bad about Navtec. I hope someone will at least pick up the spares business for those of us with Navtec cylinders and panels. 



#63 carcrash

carcrash

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,068 posts
  • Location:Waikiki YC, Grenada YC, LA, NY, and Maine

Posted 15 February 2017 - 05:35 PM

Too bad about Navtec. I hope someone will at least pick up the spares business for those of us with Navtec cylinders and panels. 

Having been in engineering for generations -- oil, refrigeration, aerospace, software, sails, rigging -- my family has learned over and over that service business beats the living hell out of creation business. Service is parts and labor, and the last customer engagement has a big impact on the next engagement (you own your future). Creation requires risk, and the last customer engagement has surprisingly little influence over the next engagement (you don't own your future).



#64 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,430 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 15 February 2017 - 05:44 PM

 

 

True
When does Cycling Anarchy launch?

 

triathlon saved me a ton of money over sailing. I drink less, I don't have to buy drinks for crew and my bike while possibly costing the same as my J44 Mainsail, lasts much longer AND has resale. value... 

 

@johnny - there IS the bike equivilant of SA, not sure what it is, in triathlon, it's called slowtwitch and the beatings are much much more intense!

 

 

Bring the Brown Eyed Girl back!!!!!

 

I don't think that will ever happen again, he won't even set foot on a sailboat. 



#65 SPARSRUS

SPARSRUS

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 76 posts

Posted 15 February 2017 - 10:19 PM

 

Too bad about Navtec. I hope someone will at least pick up the spares business for those of us with Navtec cylinders and panels. 

Having been in engineering for generations -- oil, refrigeration, aerospace, software, sails, rigging -- my family has learned over and over that service business beats the living hell out of creation business. Service is parts and labor, and the last customer engagement has a big impact on the next engagement (you own your future). Creation requires risk, and the last customer engagement has surprisingly little influence over the next engagement (you don't own your future).

 

I wish that I had learned that 43 years ago. I guess that I liked sailing too much.



#66 Moonduster

Moonduster

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,348 posts

Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:14 AM

Crash, your family must be idiots, you have it completely backwards. Go look at the Fortune 100 and find me a parts-and-labor company.

 

Sure, product development has risks - but no risk, no reward.



#67 leadminer

leadminer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Location:Yolanda

Posted 16 February 2017 - 05:32 AM

 

 

 

Someone could consolidate the industry very nicely by buying up Navtec and Hall and centralizing the production of each.

Consolidate the industry... the market share that both Navtec and Hall USA had was dick.

The potential to harvest bussiness Yes..

Said but J70's and C&C 30 aren't going to keep the industry going along with J boats.

Lets face it the sail industry is really hurting right now more than ever.

I hope the best to all of us still making a living at it.

Best.

There is only one aspect of the marine industry that is growing and that's the ego of some guys who get paid to sail.

 

That is what killed the sport

 

Nah, it's the lack of a feeder pathway, starting from age 10. 



#68 Scott Dinhofer

Scott Dinhofer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 166 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:33 PM

 

 

 

True
When does Cycling Anarchy launch?

 

triathlon saved me a ton of money over sailing. I drink less, I don't have to buy drinks for crew and my bike while possibly costing the same as my J44 Mainsail, lasts much longer AND has resale. value... 

 

@johnny - there IS the bike equivilant of SA, not sure what it is, in triathlon, it's called slowtwitch and the beatings are much much more intense!

 

 

Bring the Brown Eyed Girl back!!!!!

 

I don't think that will ever happen again, he won't even set foot on a sailboat. 

 

To answer all Questions - 

1-Slowtwitch, like SA has useful, non useful, and a greater number of beer and popcorn threads - johnny would get thrashed there
2-divorced the Brown eyed Bitch 7 years ago - being single late 40s and in shape has many benefits :D

3-helped put together the Arbella program after I sold BeG (wish she told me about the divorce a year earlier, i'd have kept it to live on) I stepped aside a month before Bermuda, went on an ideal 18 a year later for one day of racing and haven't been on a sailboat since

4-J44 3DL main around time of my exit was about $10k. I don't pay retail for bikes, but I use a P5 for tri, an Swork's 29er hardtail for trail (Leadville MTB100), just ordered an F10 for road. Thinking of trading the P5 for a ventum, but see no real gains. btw, i have 3 wheelsets for the P5, alum, 404 or 808 front, 808 or disc rear. (lots of really good quality pre-owned stuff out there for a song)



#69 Sailabout

Sailabout

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,063 posts
  • Location:Here there and everywhere
  • Interests:Engines

Posted 16 February 2017 - 12:46 PM

nobody has a long term bet on the EU but the USA can power away from the rest with the right management

Name an  EU boat builder that hasnt received state aid at one time or another? ( even when the hulls were made in eastern europe)

Trump has a gift of the USA being self sufficient in power/oil/gas etc

I think the rest of the world is in for a few shocks when he levels the playing field ( asia wont be pretty)



#70 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,430 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 16 February 2017 - 01:16 PM

 

 

 

 

True
When does Cycling Anarchy launch?

 

triathlon saved me a ton of money over sailing. I drink less, I don't have to buy drinks for crew and my bike while possibly costing the same as my J44 Mainsail, lasts much longer AND has resale. value... 

 

@johnny - there IS the bike equivilant of SA, not sure what it is, in triathlon, it's called slowtwitch and the beatings are much much more intense!

 

 

Bring the Brown Eyed Girl back!!!!!

 

I don't think that will ever happen again, he won't even set foot on a sailboat. 

 

To answer all Questions - 

1-Slowtwitch, like SA has useful, non useful, and a greater number of beer and popcorn threads - johnny would get thrashed there
2-divorced the Brown eyed Bitch 7 years ago - being single late 40s and in shape has many benefits :D

3-helped put together the Arbella program after I sold BeG (wish she told me about the divorce a year earlier, i'd have kept it to live on) I stepped aside a month before Bermuda, went on an ideal 18 a year later for one day of racing and haven't been on a sailboat since

4-J44 3DL main around time of my exit was about $10k. I don't pay retail for bikes, but I use a P5 for tri, an Swork's 29er hardtail for trail (Leadville MTB100), just ordered an F10 for road. Thinking of trading the P5 for a ventum, but see no real gains. btw, i have 3 wheelsets for the P5, alum, 404 or 808 front, 808 or disc rear. (lots of really good quality pre-owned stuff out there for a song)

 

For 1 I never would get thrashed there, they would not know how to handle my hate for people.

2 you are in your 50's 



#71 Scott Dinhofer

Scott Dinhofer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 166 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 16 February 2017 - 02:54 PM

 

 

For 1 I never would get thrashed there, they would not know how to handle my hate for people.

2 you are in your 50's 

 

1-you have no idea what you are dealing with, a much higher level of intellect and abusiveness happens in slowtwitch right V-mac?

2-not in my mind  :D

 


 



#72 Christian

Christian

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,233 posts
  • Location:Hopefully on the water

Posted 16 February 2017 - 09:58 PM

nobody has a long term bet on the EU but the USA can power away from the rest with the right management

Name an  EU boat builder that hasnt received state aid at one time or another? ( even when the hulls were made in eastern europe)

Trump has a gift of the USA being self sufficient in power/oil/gas etc

I think the rest of the world is in for a few shocks when he levels the playing field ( asia wont be pretty)

Take your uninformed political BS and stick it up your arse

 

I am pretty sure it is very few Euro recreational builders that have been receiving any kind of gov. funds ever - do you have ANY facts to the opposite?



#73 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,430 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 16 February 2017 - 10:03 PM

 

 

For 1 I never would get thrashed there, they would not know how to handle my hate for people.

2 you are in your 50's 

 

1-you have no idea what you are dealing with, a much higher level of intellect and abusiveness happens in slowtwitch right V-mac?

2-not in my mind  :D

 


 

 

Intellect level can't be too high if some of you idiots that  put yourselves through Ironman competition's  ;)



#74 Scott Dinhofer

Scott Dinhofer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 166 posts
  • Location:New York, NY

Posted 16 February 2017 - 11:28 PM

 

 

 

For 1 I never would get thrashed there, they would not know how to handle my hate for people.

2 you are in your 50's 

 

1-you have no idea what you are dealing with, a much higher level of intellect and abusiveness happens in slowtwitch right V-mac?

2-not in my mind  :D

 


 

 

Intellect level can't be too high if some of you idiots that  put yourselves through Ironman competition's  ;)

 

not much different than idiots that race an inherently slow object in an area of the world known for fickle winds.. 



#75 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,430 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 18 February 2017 - 03:07 PM

 

 

 

 

For 1 I never would get thrashed there, they would not know how to handle my hate for people.

2 you are in your 50's 

 

1-you have no idea what you are dealing with, a much higher level of intellect and abusiveness happens in slowtwitch right V-mac?

2-not in my mind  :D

 


 

 

Intellect level can't be too high if some of you idiots that  put yourselves through Ironman competition's  ;)

 

not much different than idiots that race an inherently slow object in an area of the world known for fickle winds.. 

 

And then drink heavily when done



#76 The Commodore

The Commodore

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 183 posts
  • Interests:To t-bone a j class boat while on port tack at a bucket regatta.

Posted 22 February 2017 - 10:17 PM

Only people who can't handle light air situations make this sort of complaint/observation.

Now if the two of you would kindly go hang out on the spandex forums this place would be the better for it.

Thanks in advance.



#77 BayRacer

BayRacer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 360 posts

Posted 23 February 2017 - 07:39 PM

Sounds like any possible suitor may just wait for auction......

Thursday, April 6, 2017, 1:00 PM (ET)

Navtec Rigging Solutions - Machinery & Equipment

Online Auction
By Order of the Secured Creditor, Major Offering By Online Auction, Assets of Navtec Rigging Solutions, Including: CNC Machining Centers, CNC Turning Centers, Machine Tools, Finishing Equipment, Specialty Manufacturing Equipment, Material Handling, Raw Materials, etc.

http://thomasauction...ails.asp?id=438
 



#78 J/120

J/120

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 250 posts

Posted 24 February 2017 - 02:12 PM

Sounds like any possible suitor may just wait for auction......

Thursday, April 6, 2017, 1:00 PM (ET)

Navtec Rigging Solutions - Machinery & Equipment

Online Auction
By Order of the Secured Creditor, Major Offering By Online Auction, Assets of Navtec Rigging Solutions, Including: CNC Machining Centers, CNC Turning Centers, Machine Tools, Finishing Equipment, Specialty Manufacturing Equipment, Material Handling, Raw Materials, etc.

http://thomasauction...ails.asp?id=438
 

 

How do you find these auctions and the filing information. I remember seeing a list of all the Gunboat creditors on another forum.



#79 BayRacer

BayRacer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 360 posts

Posted 24 February 2017 - 04:40 PM

As a manufacturer and buyer of machinery from time to time, we get emails and mailings from auction houses all the time (several per week).  I don't know how they get our name or particularly email addresses, but obviously there are a ton of databases for sale out there. 

 

We have never bought anything at auction, but they keep trying.  Just got one for a plant in the UK, which is a little far for a midwest USA firm to get too excited about.



#80 Former MDR Vandal 1

Former MDR Vandal 1

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 551 posts
  • Location:Back to MDR

Posted 03 March 2017 - 05:14 PM

Any news?

I am trying to source a hydraulics release valve used on Farr 40’s so you can adjust and release pressure from the rail. I called today (Friday) and the message said they were only open Monday – Thursday in the winter so I’m going to try again on Monday but was still interested if there was on further information on the situation.

If anyone knows where I can source one of those valves, please pm me.

Thanks.

#81 Joli

Joli

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,956 posts

Posted 07 March 2017 - 11:07 AM

The equipment isn't worth anything.  The value of the company is the product line but only to someone who is already in the business (spar maker) and wants to expand. Can't imagine someone like BSI would have an interest, they win by default, a competitor just fell away.  Must have been piss poor management to loose their position as the dominant rod rigging supplier.



#82 tylaska

tylaska

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts

Posted 24 March 2017 - 12:25 AM

Equipment is pretty easy to come by at auctions around the country. An auction seems to take place somewhere every week it seems. I don't think that the equipment is worth all that much seeing what they have. A few good pieces but nothing too special. The only thing that had any real worth was the knowledge of the key production people, and without the old timers there to run the equipment you would be basically starting over if you bought it all to try to revive the business. The bigger question is why they went out of business in the first place (and Hall Rigging also).   If you go to a big trade show like METS you see thousands of small companies all trying to get a small share of an industry that seems to be shrinking more and more every year. Every year there are old people retiring from the sport, and less and less young people that have any interest in getting into it. It seems unsustainable to have all these businesses trying to get a piece of a shrinking pie.  Kind of like a pond with thousands of fish in it and the water is slowly draining out.  I saw this happening a few years ago so we decided to invest heavily to diversify into the aerospace and industrial markets.  We still make shackles for boats and will keep on making them, but we also make parts for parachutes, aerospace and industrial markets which, whether we like it or now, is probably 100x the size of the yachting market. If you don't adapt to the changing times you will wither away until you fail, as can be seen from the past closures and probably more to come.



#83 Rail Meat

Rail Meat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,721 posts
  • Location:Mystic, CT
  • Interests:My ride: An OCD designed Class 40

Posted 24 March 2017 - 02:05 AM

Equipment is pretty easy to come by at auctions around the country. An auction seems to take place somewhere every week it seems. I don't think that the equipment is worth all that much seeing what they have. A few good pieces but nothing too special. The only thing that had any real worth was the knowledge of the key production people, and without the old timers there to run the equipment you would be basically starting over if you bought it all to try to revive the business. The bigger question is why they went out of business in the first place (and Hall Rigging also).   If you go to a big trade show like METS you see thousands of small companies all trying to get a small share of an industry that seems to be shrinking more and more every year. Every year there are old people retiring from the sport, and less and less young people that have any interest in getting into it. It seems unsustainable to have all these businesses trying to get a piece of a shrinking pie.  Kind of like a pond with thousands of fish in it and the water is slowly draining out.  I saw this happening a few years ago so we decided to invest heavily to diversify into the aerospace and industrial markets.  We still make shackles for boats and will keep on making them, but we also make parts for parachutes, aerospace and industrial markets which, whether we like it or now, is probably 100x the size of the yachting market. If you don't adapt to the changing times you will wither away until you fail, as can be seen from the past closures and probably more to come.


Wise words

#84 Christian

Christian

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,233 posts
  • Location:Hopefully on the water

Posted 24 March 2017 - 02:58 AM

Equipment is pretty easy to come by at auctions around the country. An auction seems to take place somewhere every week it seems. I don't think that the equipment is worth all that much seeing what they have. A few good pieces but nothing too special. The only thing that had any real worth was the knowledge of the key production people, and without the old timers there to run the equipment you would be basically starting over if you bought it all to try to revive the business. The bigger question is why they went out of business in the first place (and Hall Rigging also).   If you go to a big trade show like METS you see thousands of small companies all trying to get a small share of an industry that seems to be shrinking more and more every year. Every year there are old people retiring from the sport, and less and less young people that have any interest in getting into it. It seems unsustainable to have all these businesses trying to get a piece of a shrinking pie.  Kind of like a pond with thousands of fish in it and the water is slowly draining out.  I saw this happening a few years ago so we decided to invest heavily to diversify into the aerospace and industrial markets.  We still make shackles for boats and will keep on making them, but we also make parts for parachutes, aerospace and industrial markets which, whether we like it or now, is probably 100x the size of the yachting market. If you don't adapt to the changing times you will wither away until you fail, as can be seen from the past closures and probably more to come.

Spot on Tim.  The marine business is certainly a fickle market and really tough if it is your ONLY market.



#85 Amati

Amati

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,966 posts
  • Location:Yes!
  • Interests:if 1 does not = 1, then....?

Posted 24 March 2017 - 06:42 AM

When the president of West Marine retired, didn't he go with an unstayed WylieCat?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users