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Jetty crash and loss of life


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#1 J88Hornet

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 12:22 PM

http://www.pressure-...oating-Accidenthttp://www.pressure-...oating-Accident



#2 jack_sparrow

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 12:58 PM

This is not a tragedy at sea..They are fuckin idiots and coastal at that. Stop opening threads for morons like this and their offspring.

#3 Mizzmo

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 03:18 PM

Given that the boat was overturned at least a half mile away from the Jetty, I think that your assumptions may be premature.



#4 SloopJonB

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 03:50 PM

A Bavaria - which came first - the keel loss or the grounding?



#5 Jaramaz

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 04:38 PM

A Bavaria - which came first - the keel loss or the grounding?

 

Even for Bavarias keel dropping is rare. It does look like a classic entering gone wrong. Not enough facts, however. With the loss of lives maybe there should be some restraint on the blame game.

 

//J



#6 Parma

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 06:35 PM

I know the translation is hard to read but:

From accounts of the investigators, the sailing boat is registered in Monfalcone, in the province of Gorizia, and was stationed in Marina di Ravenna where it would start, on Tuesday, at a time of Trapani for a transfer. On board there were 6 people including the owner all of Verona, surprised by the sudden storm at sea. Unable to face the storm, had asked shelter in Marina di Rimini and radio, motor, attempted to enter the port, but the waves, have made them go crashing against the rocks of the breakwater.

 

So it looks like the keel and rudder both broke off as a result of going up on the jetty. If you watch the video and then look at some of the other videos you can actually see the hull of the Bavaria upside down on top of the jetty so it must've been some pretty damn rough conditions.



#7 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:10 PM

Running an inlet is the *last thing* I want to do in a storm :o



#8 us7070

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:17 PM

here is the location

 

https://www.google.c...l=en&authuser=0

 

wind was NE

 

the boat is aground on the W end of the ~E-W running jetty towards the end of the big pier sticking out into the sea



#9 dolphin60

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 11:27 PM

Jacksparrow: no need to insult and crucify a skipper that is already dead (together with his daughter and two friends of him), probably by his own mistake.

Italian news reports say that the yacht left Marina di Ravenna harbour in uncertain conditions.  The boat had completed some refitting  at a boatyard at the  marina  days before.  That same day the boatyard manager was supposed to ferry a sailboat somewhere along the coast, but he quickly changed his mind when the first gusts hit   . He then called the skipper of the accident boat, that had already set sail,   to try and convince him to turn back.  He answered that he was experiencing   rather rough conditions but he expected the wind to abate in the next three hours so he was confortable to press on.

The skipper  later contacted Rimini harbour, asking for a berth. He was relaxed and even joked with the harbour master, whom he had met in a previous occasion.

The sailboat was assigned a berth, and a man tasked with assisting the yacht in berthing followed its approach to the harbour entrance.  He said that the vessel was proceeding without apparent problems and was about to enter when the engine stopped working. The crew then tried to raise a sail but a very steep 5 meter wave picked the boat and smashed it against the break water.

 

 The day of the accident a low pressure system was rapidly transiting over northern Italy. Strong northerly winds had been forecast.

The yacht was heading south  in what   was a swift reach along the eastern coast of Italy, by all means a lee shore.

 

The “bora” north easterly wind is well known and respected by   all those who sail  the Adriatic sea . It can set suddenly with gusts reaching F11  that create a very short and steep sea.

Later that evening two ferry boats from Greece  heaved to outside Ancona harbour  for two hours waiting for the conditions to improve.

 

The skipper was a 68 year old retired professional. At least one of the crew, a 64 year old who also perished, was experienced, having just completed a RTW cruise on another boat.

Of the two survivors, one, a 39 year old man, was found unscathed inside the boat,  the other, a 68 year old man, was picked from the water one hour later, hypotermic but is  now rapidly recovering in hospital.



#10 dash34

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 01:42 AM

here is the location

 

https://www.google.c...l=en&authuser=0

 

wind was NE

 

the boat is aground on the W end of the ~E-W running jetty towards the end of the big pier sticking out into the sea

Looks very shallow off that pier.  I suspect they were just to weather of the shallows when the engine quit, bounced the boat off the bottom enough times to shear the keel off, and things went downhill from there.  There but for the grace of (insert your diety here) go I.  RIP to those lost.



#11 Seriola Dumerili

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:53 AM

it seems that the boat lost the keel before the impact against breakwater



#12 M26

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:29 AM

This is not a tragedy at sea..They are fuckin idiots and coastal at that. Stop opening threads for morons like this and their offspring.

 

 

jack, you really are a special kind of stupid.  



#13 DtM

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 12:09 PM

Sad no matter how it happened.

 

RIP



#14 Parma

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 01:57 PM

it seems that the boat lost the keel before the impact against breakwater

\

How do you know that? Unless one of the survivors specifically said the keel came off before impact? Or are you just guessing?



#15 Seriola Dumerili

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 02:23 PM

 

it seems that the boat lost the keel before the impact against breakwater

\
How do you know that? Unless one of the survivors specifically said the keel came off before impact? Or are you just guessing?

 

"Before" is elastic term. Maybe a "little before".  The hull on the beginning of this video is not heavily damaged. What is your opinion?



#16 movable ballast

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 02:47 PM

That's terrible. condolences to the families.

 

I'm so afraid of engine failure. By the sounds of it, it could not have happened at a worse time.

 

Just terrible.



#17 Keith

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 02:54 PM

What ever happened to, the good seamanship of waiting for a better weather window ?

 

tragic........ 



#18 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:01 PM

I remember leaving an inlet into some pretty scary looking waves. Leaving is the easy direction, just keep going. If the engine had failed at just the wrong moment........ :o

OTOH a friend, even with a working engine, managed to capsize trying to get into an inlet in bad weather in a powerboat. The CG was standing by to help and gave him a ride the rest of the way to the dock and his boat was eventually found washed up with not too much damage.



#19 d'ranger

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:05 PM

I find it very callous when a tragedy is trivialized by those with superior knowledge and skills - there were lives lost and some of those people had no idea what was going to happen.   My thoughts go to the family and friends of those who died. 



#20 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:38 PM

Not even sure about the superior part. It seems like everything would have been fine absent engine failure. Not saying it was the best idea either, but in the commercial world, running an inlet where engine failure would have bad effects is not exactly unknown.



#21 d'ranger

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:41 PM

I forgot to use the purple font.........



#22 Parma

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:44 PM

 

 

it seems that the boat lost the keel before the impact against breakwater

\
How do you know that? Unless one of the survivors specifically said the keel came off before impact? Or are you just guessing?

 

"Before" is elastic term. Maybe a "little before".  The hull on the beginning of this video is not heavily damaged. What is your opinion?

 

So what you're saying is that because there is no heavy damage to the hull visible in that video that the hull must have lost the keel before it came in contact with the jetty?

 

That could be but I would suppose that they grounded heavily with the bottom immediately surrounding the jetty before the hull actually made contact with the jetty and that catastrophic grounding is what caused the keel to fall off.

 

I would also beg you to speculate on how the hull got up on top of the jetty with no visibly apparent damage - certainly there probably is damage but which damage is not visible perhaps because the aft starboard (wider) side of the hull is where contact was made with the jetty but once the boat flips over the video is mostly shooting the forward port side.

 

Another video shows the hull upside down on top of the jetty but neither you nor I would never speculate that they dismasted offshore and that is what caused them to hit the jetty. That would just be silly.

 

Think about the conditions capable of heaving that hull upside down on top of that jetty! Wow.



#23 Seriola Dumerili

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:54 PM

Actually, there is a clip where the overturned hull sans keel and rig is lifted on the top of the breakwater with just one wave.

#24 Parma

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:05 PM

Am I see this correctly? Looks like they cut a hole in the hull and freed someone trapped inside the hull after it was overturned on top of the jetty? If so, wow.

 



#25 jesposito

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:17 PM

This is not a tragedy at sea..They are fuckin idiots and coastal at that. Stop opening threads for morons like this and their offspring.

+100

Can't agree more



#26 Panoramix

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:49 PM

 

This is not a tragedy at sea..They are fuckin idiots and coastal at that. Stop opening threads for morons like this and their offspring.

+100

Can't agree more

 

 

On one hand they clearly shouldn't have left (easy to say with hindsight) but on the other hand, I think many of us have been in a position where engine failure means loss of the boat.

 

If you lose the boat on rocks, it is a lottery, everybody might swim/walk away or some might get crushed/drowned etc...



#27 P_Wop

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:56 PM

A comment, but without knowing the full picture....

 

I know that coast and the Adriatic very well.  The Bora is an evil freezing-cold katabatic north-easter that sweeps down off the mountains of Slovenia and Croatia with short advanced warning.  It lasts 24 or 36 hours or so, then stops.  Steady winds over 100 knots are normal.  I've seen it blow loaded shipping containers off a wharf.  

 

Going to sea if those conditions are forecast is a bit iffy, to say the least.

 

My $0.02.



#28 J88Hornet

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 08:34 PM

I think it is important that we are reminded what can go wrong by reviewing these incidents. At the opening of each SAS seminar I have attended they start with reviewing significant losses from the previous year. In this case a dirty fuel filter could easily have been the weak leak that kicked off this unfortunate chain of events. The boat starts mixing up the fuel tank sludge in the rough seas and does not take long before the diesel is lacking fuel. Whatever the cause the reminder makes us all a little more vigilant.

 

Condolences to the families. 



#29 philstar

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:56 AM

This is not a tragedy at sea..They are fuckin idiots and coastal at that. Stop opening threads for morons like this and their offspring.

 

This is a really unhelpful and insensitive comment.

 

They made a mistake in trying to enter a harbour on a lee shore in bad conditions!

 

Their engine stopped!

 

Typical situation where one mistake, followed by a cockup compounded and a bad situation suddenly got much worse and turned to shit in a huge way. 

They paid the ultimate price!!

 

Tell me you've never made a mistake and I'd say you've never been anywhere or done anything!

 

 

 

Tell me you'



#30 P_Wop

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:10 AM

Re the Bora, Google search finds lots of images showing how evil this thing can get....

 

blog6-bora-adriatic-wind.jpg

 

20131111_bora.jpg

 

If there's even a hint that the meteo conditions, which are quite well known, will permit one of these things to start, you just stay put.  

 

With double warps, and sails off.  Just like prep for a hurricane.



#31 Skol

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:04 PM

My condolences to the families that are affected.  Given the comments here, I feel somebody should speak up.  Terrorism is a tragedy. Gun violence is a tragedy.  This particular accident was caused by a suicidal, murderous asshole. The skipper paid the price? And what about his son-in-law or his grandchildren, or his (ex) wife?  What are they paying - respects? Bullshit. 

The conversation here should be about the living and keeping them that way if facing similar conditions.  If that's done in acerbic and unpleasant terms, well tough shit. It's not a disrespect for the dead. It's a wakeup call to the people who potentially don't take their safety and their crew's safety seriously enough.  

You know there was probably words of respect and moderation on board that boat before 4 people lost their lives, when what there should have been was a fucking mutiny.
  
So - how many of us have been out on a daysailing on a 30~40 foot pleasure yacht without adequate storm gear?  I'm guessing that's most of us. Putting aside the boneheaded choices that got them (or you) out there in the first place, what would you have done? 

[  ] not enough sea room for a sea-anchor, even if they had one 
[  ] not enough sea room to run downwind.  NE gale was perpendicular to the coast 
[  ] attempt to heaveto (... on a fin keel boat close to lee shore, not the wisest option)   
[B] motorsail to windward under reefed main, sliver of furled jib, or any combo thereof. 
[C] attempt a broad reach parallel to the coast under reefed main 
[A] combo of b & c to maintain searoom until reasonable window for port entry 

Running for port just isn't on the damned list. Running for port under power without a scrap of sail up is doubly not on the goddamned list. If they left port with a damaged rig while under storm warning in the forecast, I'm sorry but it was a suicide run from the beginning. It really makes my blood boil.  So again - for the sake of the living!

1) NO SAIL and NO MOTOR is NO CONTROL.  Add that recipe to a lee shore and you're finished.  
2) A sailboat auxiliary engine is just that: auxiliary.  Trust it only at GRAVE and MORTAL fucking peril! 

If the skipper is on a suicide mission, speak the fuck up. I don't care if it is your daddy, I don't care if it's your daddy's best friends. For fuck's sake say something. 

 



#32 fufkin

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:01 PM

First off, my condolences.

Skol,

Thanks for saying what needs to be said...especially where the auxiliary is on the list of survival tools in a storm...at the bottom. Losing power from a deisel auxiliary in big waves is just a matter of time, probably more likely from air in the lines than dirty fuel, and first prize to anyone who can bleed their engine in these conditions. When are people gonna realize that...and go into any situation in advance with an early 2nd reef on the main...which should be at the top of the list.

...and also...no way these guys should be out there. Period.

#33 surfguitar58

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 05:18 PM

 

 

 

it seems that the boat lost the keel before the impact against breakwater

\
How do you know that? Unless one of the survivors specifically said the keel came off before impact? Or are you just guessing?

 

"Before" is elastic term. Maybe a "little before".  The hull on the beginning of this video is not heavily damaged. What is your opinion?

 

So what you're saying is that because there is no heavy damage to the hull visible in that video that the hull must have lost the keel before it came in contact with the jetty?

 

That could be but I would suppose that they grounded heavily with the bottom immediately surrounding the jetty before the hull actually made contact with the jetty and that catastrophic grounding is what caused the keel to fall off.

 

I would also beg you to speculate on how the hull got up on top of the jetty with no visibly apparent damage - certainly there probably is damage but which damage is not visible perhaps because the aft starboard (wider) side of the hull is where contact was made with the jetty but once the boat flips over the video is mostly shooting the forward port side.

 

Another video shows the hull upside down on top of the jetty but neither you nor I would never speculate that they dismasted offshore and that is what caused them to hit the jetty. That would just be silly.

 

Think about the conditions capable of heaving that hull upside down on top of that jetty! Wow.

 

I can't speak to the specifics of what happened here, but Bavaria Yachts has a history of problems with keels falling off at inopportune times. Who knows where keel failure fits into the cascade of weather/poor judgement/engine failure/age related lack of agility/bad luck. It is a tragedy and our sympathies go out to the survivors and the victims' families. Also, trolling the dead skipper shows a distinct lack of class. RIP.



#34 Panoramix

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 06:27 PM

My condolences to the families that are affected.  Given the comments here, I feel somebody should speak up.  Terrorism is a tragedy. Gun violence is a tragedy.  This particular accident was caused by a suicidal, murderous asshole. The skipper paid the price? And what about his son-in-law or his grandchildren, or his (ex) wife?  What are they paying - respects? Bullshit. 

The conversation here should be about the living and keeping them that way if facing similar conditions.  If that's done in acerbic and unpleasant terms, well tough shit. It's not a disrespect for the dead. It's a wakeup call to the people who potentially don't take their safety and their crew's safety seriously enough.  

You know there was probably words of respect and moderation on board that boat before 4 people lost their lives, when what there should have been was a fucking mutiny.
  
So - how many of us have been out on a daysailing on a 30~40 foot pleasure yacht without adequate storm gear?  I'm guessing that's most of us. Putting aside the boneheaded choices that got them (or you) out there in the first place, what would you have done? 

[  ] not enough sea room for a sea-anchor, even if they had one 
[  ] not enough sea room to run downwind.  NE gale was perpendicular to the coast 
[  ] attempt to heaveto (... on a fin keel boat close to lee shore, not the wisest option)   
[B] motorsail to windward under reefed main, sliver of furled jib, or any combo thereof. 
[C] attempt a broad reach parallel to the coast under reefed main 
[A] combo of b & c to maintain searoom until reasonable window for port entry 

Running for port just isn't on the damned list. Running for port under power without a scrap of sail up is doubly not on the goddamned list. If they left port with a damaged rig while under storm warning in the forecast, I'm sorry but it was a suicide run from the beginning. It really makes my blood boil.  So again - for the sake of the living!

1) NO SAIL and NO MOTOR is NO CONTROL.  Add that recipe to a lee shore and you're finished.  
2) A sailboat auxiliary engine is just that: auxiliary.  Trust it only at GRAVE and MORTAL fucking peril! 

If the skipper is on a suicide mission, speak the fuck up. I don't care if it is your daddy, I don't care if it's your daddy's best friends. For fuck's sake say something. 

 

 

The obvious option IMHO (or at least the one I would try) is storm jib up and sail slowly (4 knots) more or less to windward (60º or even 70º AWA depending on waves and wind) until the wind changes direction or becomes manageable. At the first opportunity (wind shift or lull) go as far away from the coast as practical. Always keep some speed to lessen the risks of being rolled by a wave and if need be gybe instead of tacking.

 

As an alternative, if there is a windward coast not too far away with a good harbour, sail there if practical.

 

I suspect that there is some local wind acceleration happening, the sea may well be manageable offshore, in which case just sail the boat toward destination well clear of the coast and of shipping lanes with just enough sail area to have good steerage.



#35 Alcatraz5768

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:26 PM

Coming through a bar or running with a seaway through a narrow inlet in any boat not capable of travelling at the same speed as the waves gives me the shits.

#36 Virgulino Ferreira

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:08 PM

My condolences to the families that are affected.  Given the comments here, I feel somebody should speak up.  Terrorism is a tragedy. Gun violence is a tragedy.  This particular accident was caused by a suicidal, murderous asshole. The skipper paid the price? And what about his son-in-law or his grandchildren, or his (ex) wife?  What are they paying - respects? Bullshit. 

 

 

 

db7d461dbca391ba3d9553a487a3f31ad03cccad



#37 Panoramix

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:10 PM

Coming through a bar or running with a seaway through a narrow inlet in any boat not capable of travelling at the same speed as the waves gives me the shits.

 

+1



#38 RKoch

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:30 PM

Coming through a bar or running with a seaway through a narrow inlet in any boat not capable of travelling at the same speed as the waves gives me the shits.

Breaking bars and inlets carry a fairly high risk factor for sailboats. Same with lee shores. Best treated with a great deal of caution.

#39 Yigael

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:47 PM

 trolling the dead skipper shows a distinct lack of class. RIP.

 

 


+1



#40 Keltic fauroux qt

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:54 PM

hmmmmm, this kind of weather is very bad. Even the Wof of Wallstreet lost his 167 feet yacht in this kind of weather in the Med. From Italy to Spain people were relocating there yachts for this storm last week. This Bav 50 wanted to get it to harboar because the weather wat getting even worse.

 

 

The waves were 17 feet and higher.

 

25 year ago I, in my early twenties, sailed with my sister to lee side of our lake IJssel tot the big bridge over there with the first 30, at the bridge we lost power because of a dirty filter, we just raised in time the main and missed on just a hairpin the big foots of the bridge and safed the boat and/or the mast, and struggled the miles back against the waves and the wind to the little fishing town. My sister did not sail ever again, she was done with it. 

 

 

Since, I sail never, if possible, on the lee side of a lake/sea. If possible I do bridges with a main hoisted. 

 

In my end thirties I had my 35 feeter in a (windsurf)town which was mostly leeside of the Lake. Also with a long jelly there. Very similar to the italian thing in this topic.

 

I changed the normal routine, now I always dropped the main on sea, and sailed with the genua/jib on and the motor standby into the harbour. It was the most safe way, later in the season more sailboats were doning the same way and even got compliments from a sailing magazine editor for th way I did.  I am always prepared to lost power the last 25 years, even when docking I have lost of power in mind.

 

Loosing the lifes of four in this kind of situation makes me quiet. 

 

Use our brains to make sailing safer, thats what we have to do.



#41 Keltic fauroux qt

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:08 PM



#42 Keltic fauroux qt

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:32 PM

Mostly this is how things can start:

 

 



#43 jack_sparrow

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 12:38 AM

What could possibly go wrong.

#44 Skol

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 12:55 PM

I've been following SA for over 15 years, the vast majority of that time as a lurker. Each time there's a disaster and a thread about it, a whole bunch of Shirleys jump in and try to control the narrative with guilt, social graces, and a defense for the honor of people they've never met as if the victims were their next of kin. It's such bullshit. People reading this thread now and in the future need to discuss what went wrong and how to avoid repeating the same mistakes. 

Trying to sugarcoat a string of bad decisions that led to a fatal outcome isn't an attack on the skipper - it's pointing out the sobering obvious that led to loss of life. How many people search around SA before chartering in the Med or around Croatia? Think about them. 

So you Shirleys that want to diminish and suppress the fact that deaths on the skipper's hands could have been avoided, who want to hide behind something appearing like the benefit of a doubt when it's really a complete suspension of disbelief, who want to admonish straight talk with conscientious calls for class and respect and so on - well, you go on now, go on and gather up your skirts and walk away mad. You're still beautiful when you're angry, even if you don't make a lick of damned sense. 



#45 Skol

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 01:48 PM

<snip>  I changed the normal routine, now I always dropped the main on sea, and sailed with the genua/jib on and the motor standby into the harbour. It was the most safe way, later in the season more sailboats were doning the same way and even got compliments from a sailing magazine editor for th way I did.  I am always prepared to lost power the last 25 years, even when docking I have lost of power in mind.

</snip> 

agree 110%.  Just not the quiet part.  Which sail depends on both the boat and the marina. In bigger marinas like Berkeley you've got room to sail behind the jetty and douse sail once inside.  Most small craft sail into upwind berths.  If you lose steerage on that side of the breakwater it's a calamity but not a disaster. I tend to favor dousing the jib / genoa, and leave the main reefed and sheeted tight to centerline and enter under power. If you lose the aux just trim the main and play the traveler. that happened to me at least 3 times that I can think of, thanks to an Atomic 4.  On the other hand, a lot of marinas are built with no thought whatsoever given to prevailing winds, are packed in like sardines, and have no room to maneuver. It's a complete non-starter if the wind's up. 

There's no way you should run a jetty with a sailboat under gale conditions. You're not a nordic tug with twin diesels, and waves get bigger and more unpredictable as the water gets thinner.  Know the area you're cruising in and run for shelter in a cove you can heaveto in or a sheltered moorage area.  Running marina inlets or river bars during bad weather is a no-go. If you're caught out there in a gale you're already neck deep in the shit. Even if you're ill-prepared you've still got options as long as you have sea room.  

What kills me about this incident is that the boat seemed controlled and the crew relaxed at sea.  The story begins by the skipper reporting that he's unable to cope with storm conditions and wants to run for port.  A few hours later, they radio in for slip assignment still relaxed and joking. Overconfident in the auxiliary, and without a scrap of sail up, they run the entrance and lose power next to the jetty.  What has not been confirmed is that status of the rig or the nature of the repairs that were being done to the boat.  If they left in a bad forecast with a bad rig, it was a suicide run from the beginning.  Don't do it. 

 



#46 Monkey

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 07:57 PM

I've been following SA for over 15 years, the vast majority of that time as a lurker. Each time there's a disaster and a thread about it, a whole bunch of Shirleys jump in and try to control the narrative with guilt, social graces, and a defense for the honor of people they've never met as if the victims were their next of kin. It's such bullshit. People reading this thread now and in the future need to discuss what went wrong and how to avoid repeating the same mistakes. 

Trying to sugarcoat a string of bad decisions that led to a fatal outcome isn't an attack on the skipper - it's pointing out the sobering obvious that led to loss of life. How many people search around SA before chartering in the Med or around Croatia? Think about them. 

So you Shirleys that want to diminish and suppress the fact that deaths on the skipper's hands could have been avoided, who want to hide behind something appearing like the benefit of a doubt when it's really a complete suspension of disbelief, who want to admonish straight talk with conscientious calls for class and respect and so on - well, you go on now, go on and gather up your skirts and walk away mad. You're still beautiful when you're angry, even if you don't make a lick of damned sense. 

I sincerely hope you never screw up on a boat, because we'll have a field day. 99.9% of us have done things on boats that could be deemed unsafe. Most of us have been lucky.

I'm not going to judge this guy. No doubt, mistakes were made, but we all do it.

#47 d'ranger

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 08:08 PM

 

I've been following SA for over 15 years, the vast majority of that time as a lurker. Each time there's a disaster and a thread about it, a whole bunch of Shirleys jump in and try to control the narrative with guilt, social graces, and a defense for the honor of people they've never met as if the victims were their next of kin. It's such bullshit. People reading this thread now and in the future need to discuss what went wrong and how to avoid repeating the same mistakes. 

Trying to sugarcoat a string of bad decisions that led to a fatal outcome isn't an attack on the skipper - it's pointing out the sobering obvious that led to loss of life. How many people search around SA before chartering in the Med or around Croatia? Think about them. 

So you Shirleys that want to diminish and suppress the fact that deaths on the skipper's hands could have been avoided, who want to hide behind something appearing like the benefit of a doubt when it's really a complete suspension of disbelief, who want to admonish straight talk with conscientious calls for class and respect and so on - well, you go on now, go on and gather up your skirts and walk away mad. You're still beautiful when you're angry, even if you don't make a lick of damned sense. 

I sincerely hope you never screw up on a boat, because we'll have a field day. 99.9% of us have done things on boats that could be deemed unsafe. Most of us have been lucky.

I'm not going to judge this guy. No doubt, mistakes were made, but we all do it.

 

That.  Never mind that the reports may not be complete or accurate and the skipper is dead and can't defend his decisions. 



#48 us7070

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Posted Yesterday, 12:42 AM

 

 

I've been following SA for over 15 years, the vast majority of that time as a lurker. Each time there's a disaster and a thread about it, a whole bunch of Shirleys jump in and try to control the narrative with guilt, social graces, and a defense for the honor of people they've never met as if the victims were their next of kin. It's such bullshit. People reading this thread now and in the future need to discuss what went wrong and how to avoid repeating the same mistakes. 

Trying to sugarcoat a string of bad decisions that led to a fatal outcome isn't an attack on the skipper - it's pointing out the sobering obvious that led to loss of life. How many people search around SA before chartering in the Med or around Croatia? Think about them. 

So you Shirleys that want to diminish and suppress the fact that deaths on the skipper's hands could have been avoided, who want to hide behind something appearing like the benefit of a doubt when it's really a complete suspension of disbelief, who want to admonish straight talk with conscientious calls for class and respect and so on - well, you go on now, go on and gather up your skirts and walk away mad. You're still beautiful when you're angry, even if you don't make a lick of damned sense. 

I sincerely hope you never screw up on a boat, because we'll have a field day. 99.9% of us have done things on boats that could be deemed unsafe. Most of us have been lucky.

I'm not going to judge this guy. No doubt, mistakes were made, but we all do it.

 

That.  Never mind that the reports may not be complete or accurate and the skipper is dead and can't defend his decisions. 

 

 

 

also - there is a difference between carefully considered discussion of the actions that led to an accident.., and just saying  the're "fuckin idiots"



#49 Gissie

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Posted Yesterday, 02:49 AM

Must be amazing to be such a brilliant asshole as skol. He is so good he can tell us all exactly how we should and shouldn't behave on the water.

Fucking knowall douchbag.

#50 jack_sparrow

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Posted Yesterday, 07:04 AM

Good one you bleeding hearts..This is SA for fucks sake...You want to do some Requiem Mass shit for idiots you don't even know then go post your tearful drivel on some other vagina orientated platform.

The more people know this and then the how and why ...being the commander of this catastrofuck literally tried to do a perfect job of killing all his companions ..then the better everyone else who owns a sailboat will be.

It has got nothing to do with respect. Feel that then go buy some flowers and pass them on to the respective families you turnips.

#51 us7070

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Posted Yesterday, 12:08 PM

Good one you bleeding hearts..This is SA for fucks sake...You want to do some Requiem Mass shit for idiots you don't even know then go post your tearful drivel on some other vagina orientated platform.

The more people know this and then the how and why ...being the commander of this catastrofuck literally tried to do a perfect job of killing all his companions ..then the better everyone else who owns a sailboat will be.

It has got nothing to do with respect. Feel that then go buy some flowers and pass them on to the respective families you turnips.

 

 

 

funny - you had a different response to quite a mild comment, and one that as clearly intended to be constructive.., in the Ceeki Rafiki thread...

 

 

One item I haven't seen discussed is that the skipper reported to the management that he thought the starboard water tank was ruptured after there was water in the bilge which got worse over two days. Surely a simple taste test would have revealed that the water was salt brine. Two days is a long time to investigate a salt water leak and prepare for the worst.

Good one kiwin with that snide reference indicating the skipper was totally at fault..

...moderators this thread should be either closed down pending the judge making a decision in June or if allowing it to continue then inflammatory posts like this from this kiwin fuckwit should get a nanosecond of airtime.

This is serious shit and people need to learn from the results of an independent determination, not wild arsed speculation.

 



#52 madohe

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Posted Yesterday, 01:32 PM

You pays yer money and you takes yer chance.....
Do your maintenance
Pay attention to your environment
Don't go mental when shit goes wrong
Not much worth getting dead for
Think....
I'm amazed that any survived

#53 Parma

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Posted Yesterday, 03:31 PM

it would be interesting to see the skips internet history to see if and how many times he checked the weather forecast before setting out and if he did was the forecast accurate.



#54 AJ Oliver

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Posted Yesterday, 04:15 PM


This is not a tragedy at sea..They are fuckin idiots and coastal at that. Stop opening threads for morons like this and their offspring.

 

Ahhh, words of wisdom from anonymous cowards.  What a punk. 



#55 Skol

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Posted Yesterday, 08:02 PM



"Sources for weather information:
There is a continuous (computerised voice) weather forecast on VHF 68 - first in Italian and then followed with an English translation.
The same forecast is given in Italian and English on VHF coastal stations following a notification on channel 16.
Navtex weather forecasts covering the Adriatic are broadcast from stations at Roma, Trieste, Kerkyra (Greece) and Split (Croatia)."

"
The entrance to the river is marked by a long breakwater extending NNE over 300 metres from the E side of the river and the E/W oriented breakwater of the marina basin some 250 metres inshore. Depths in the entrance are 6.0 metres at the outer end of the breakwater, shoaling to 4.0 metres at the marina entrance and 3.0 - 3.5 metres in the canal basin beyond."

...

Note: Along this stretch of the Adriatic coast tidal ranges can exceed 1.0 metre at springs, so judging the tides right can make a significant difference to safe access in most of the shallower harbours."

http://www.cruisersw...org/wiki/Rimini

#56 jack_sparrow

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Posted Yesterday, 08:28 PM

Good one you bleeding hearts..This is SA for fucks sake...You want to do some Requiem Mass shit for idiots you don't even know then go post your tearful drivel on some other vagina orientated platform.

The more people know this and then the how and why ...being the commander of this catastrofuck literally tried to do a perfect job of killing all his companions ..then the better everyone else who owns a sailboat will be.

It has got nothing to do with respect. Feel that then go buy some flowers and pass them on to the respective families you turnips.

 
 
 
funny - you had a different response to quite a mild comment, and one that as clearly intended to be constructive.., in the Ceeki Rafiki thread...
 

 

One item I haven't seen discussed is that the skipper reported to the management that he thought the starboard water tank was ruptured after there was water in the bilge which got worse over two days. Surely a simple taste test would have revealed that the water was salt brine. Two days is a long time to investigate a salt water leak and prepare for the worst.

Good one kiwin with that snide reference indicating the skipper was totally at fault..

...moderators this thread should be either closed down pending the judge making a decision in June or if allowing it to continue then inflammatory posts like this from this kiwin fuckwit should get a nanosecond of airtime.

This is serious shit and people need to learn from the results of an independent determination, not wild arsed speculation.
 
US the different response is because the Cheeky circumstances completely different, namely a MIAB report completed and resulting in someone being charged and currently awaiting trial, who wasn't on board.

Putting aside the impossibility of putting the skipper beside him, Kiwin's inference was he should be because he couldn't find where the water was coming from. Short of having a hole where you either see daylight or dolphins, finding the culprit, if not the usual through hull suspects in a production boat is no easy task, even tied up to the dock on a sunny day with no over deck water to factor in.

#57 Keltic fauroux qt

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Posted Yesterday, 09:39 PM




You really don 't want to be there , I think if this is the entrance you want to stay off shore if possible

#58 monsoon

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Posted Yesterday, 09:39 PM

Good one you bleeding hearts..This is SA for fucks sake...You want to do some Requiem Mass shit for idiots you don't even know then go post your tearful drivel on some other vagina orientated platform.
The more people know this and then the how and why ...being the commander of this catastrofuck literally tried to do a perfect job of killing all his companions ..then the better everyone else who owns a sailboat will be.
It has got nothing to do with respect. Feel that then go buy some flowers and pass them on to the respective families you turnips.


Just because you are right does not mean that you are not a dick.

#59 Keltic fauroux qt

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Posted Yesterday, 09:39 PM




You really don 't want to be there , I think if this is the entrance you want to stay off shore if possible

#60 jack_sparrow

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Posted Today, 11:24 AM

Good one you bleeding hearts..This is SA for fucks sake...You want to do some Requiem Mass shit for idiots you don't even know then go post your tearful drivel on some other vagina orientated platform.
The more people know this and then the how and why ...being the commander of this catastrofuck literally tried to do a perfect job of killing all his companions ..then the better everyone else who owns a sailboat will be.
It has got nothing to do with respect. Feel that then go buy some flowers and pass them on to the respective families you turnips.

Just because you are right does not mean that you are not a dick.

Your life must be interesting ...like you only embrace and hug people who are wrong. That must piss people off that you consider are on the money. You clearly have a very complicated mind.

#61 Autonomous

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Posted Today, 01:55 PM

I've been following SA for over 15 years, the vast majority of that time as a lurker. Each time there's a disaster and a thread about it, a whole bunch of Shirleys jump in and try to control the narrative with guilt, social graces, and a defense for the honor of people they've never met as if the victims were their next of kin. It's such bullshit. People reading this thread now and in the future need to discuss what went wrong and how to avoid repeating the same mistakes. 

Trying to sugarcoat a string of bad decisions that led to a fatal outcome isn't an attack on the skipper - it's pointing out the sobering obvious that led to loss of life. How many people search around SA before chartering in the Med or around Croatia? Think about them. 

So you Shirleys that want to diminish and suppress the fact that deaths on the skipper's hands could have been avoided, who want to hide behind something appearing like the benefit of a doubt when it's really a complete suspension of disbelief, who want to admonish straight talk with conscientious calls for class and respect and so on - well, you go on now, go on and gather up your skirts and walk away mad. You're still beautiful when you're angry, even if you don't make a lick of damned sense. 






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