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Frers TP 52


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#1 Editor

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 02:17 AM

Is there any chance that he can deliver something on par with the top boats?

#2 Mr Moab

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 04:30 AM

Will be tough, but possible.

Interesting that JC went back to the family well for this. One wonders if there is a little bit of wanting something different, so if you win, you can say your guys are great AND you had the foresight to choose Mani. And if you dont win, you can put it off to Mani's first shot at the class.

All accounts are that JC wants to be competitive- will be fun to see- but would be more fun to sail!!

#3 Ned

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 04:45 AM

What's the latest hi perf boat from Frers? Anything since the VO60?

#4 raff

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 04:49 AM

What's the latest hi perf boat from Frers? Anything since the VO60?

volvo 60? which one? other than that americas cup boats...

#5 Ned

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 05:10 AM

thought one of Daltons 60's was a Frers and one a Farr. could be hallucinating again though.

#6 Bullfrog

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 05:29 AM

thought one of Daltons 60's was a Frers and one a Farr. could be hallucinating again though.

We have a winner.

If i remember correctly Dalton came into the game late so figured that his farr boat would not be as fast as the rest of the fleet, a lack of testing/tuning etc. So used a different designer, frers, for the 2nd, hoping to get a farr beater. unfourtinatly it wasnt so Dalton raced the Farr and the girls raced the Frer's.

#7 peejay

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 06:10 AM

We have a winner.

But it ain't you.

Dalton raced the Farr and the girls raced the Frer's.


Wrong, Dalton raced the Frers boat = Amer Sports One.

#8 Platty

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 06:11 AM

Hi,

for what its worth, it was actually the other way round, the girls took the Farr and GD the Frers.

#9 raff

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 06:28 AM

But it ain't you.


Dalton raced the Farr and the girls raced the Frer's.


Wrong, Dalton raced the Frers boat = Amer Sports One.

yes correct - had forgotten that... Men raced the frers - figured they did not have time to get as optimised as other farrs so took a risk.

#10 Terrafirma

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 06:58 AM

Forget Frers I checked out the Transpac52 site www.transpac52.org and there are some designers I have never even heard of. I believe many of these new designers include some well known VPP and Fluid dymanics guys from the AC as part of their teams, so it seems there are new designers popping up everywhere, which is great to see.

J. Jaudenes/Theys
Botin & Carkeek

If owners are commissioning these guys I have no problem with Frers being commissioned..!

#11 peejay

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 07:02 AM

the girls took the Farr and GD the Frers.

A more precise phrase would be 'GD took the Frers and the girls got whatever he left behind'.

A twist to that story was that Dalton once claimed that was he ever beaten by the girls (skippered by Lisa McDonald, Neal's wife) he would walk naked up he streets of Auckland with a pineapple up his ***.

Well, as a matter a fact on the last leg from GŲteborg to Kiel the girls did beat Daltons boat. At the finish Dalton was handed a pineapple, stripped off to his underpants and put the unfortunate fruit in its rightful setting. Not quite as he promised, but somewhat close.

#12 Jason AUS

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:11 AM

Forget Frers I checked out the Transpac52 site www.transpac52.org and there are some designers I have never even heard of. I believe many of these new designers include some well known VPP and Fluid dymanics guys from the AC as part of their teams, so it seems there are new designers popping up everywhere, which is great to see.

J. Jaudenes/Theys
Botin & Carkeek

If owners are commissioning these guys I have no problem with Frers being commissioned..!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't B&C been producing quite a lot of winning IMS boats for the Med circuit ?? I seem to recall that all of their IMS boats are 55' plus...

#13 Bullfrog

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:41 AM

But it ain't you.


Dalton raced the Farr and the girls raced the Frer's.


Wrong, Dalton raced the Frers boat = Amer Sports One.

looks like i dont remember correctly then. oh well maybe next time

#14 QCBC

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:09 AM

Forget Frers I checked out the Transpac52 site www.transpac52.org and there are some designers I have never even heard of. I believe many of these new designers include some well known VPP and Fluid dymanics guys from the AC as part of their teams, so it seems there are new designers popping up everywhere, which is great to see.

J. Jaudenes/Theys
Botin & Carkeek

If owners are commissioning these guys I have no problem with Frers being commissioned..!

What would it take/at point would you trust/hire a designer?

how much rep? results? background in non racing? crazy cool new ideas?

#15 peejay

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:13 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't B&C been producing quite a lot of winning IMS boats for the Med circuit ?? I seem to recall that all of their IMS boats are 55' plus...

You are not wrong regarding the B&C fame in IMS.

Their fame however mainly originated from the IMS600 class, i.e. 40-42 foot boats: Sinergia 40, Grand Soleil 42R etc.
And most (all?) are rule beaters to the extreme (including internal ballast and hollow or wooden keels for a high CoG !!), relatively slow for the size, but safe bets on corrected time. They are cleaning up IMS600 at the Copa Del Rey right now.

To B&C's defense it has to be said that they state that the IMS rule sucks.

Marcelino Botin is part of the design team for Team Shosholoza, the South African Americas Cup team.
Correction: It's Emirates Team New Zealand. Doesn't get much better does it ?

#16 Laserslave

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:16 AM

they designed talismen, no? and i vote no i dont think the first frers boat will see the podium, but the second or third....if they get the commission

#17 moody frog

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 09:45 AM

Sure, it is now a long time Frers has not been commissioned an out and out racing boat.
Still ,Victory nearly (bar the jury) won the last act of the AC in Valencia, and after all Dalton was not far from it in the VOR.
Frers must also have a lot of CFD and VPP material from two excellent AC campaigns with Il Moro (I am sure) and the first Luna Rossa(I believe) both winners of the LV Cup.
So : he could well be in the fray

PS : New designers
I do not think B&C are involved with Sosholoza but with a much bigger campaign.

The Ed must be pleased to know that Frank Pong has ordered a TP52 from ..........Juan K

#18 QCBC

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 11:02 AM

And to continue on the last point,

any computational analysis, CFD, needs to be backed up with experimental data, aka tow tank testing or circulation tunnel testing, to prove that the simulation you set up is ok, if not your results are bogey....and cant be trusted.

#19 Terrafirma

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 11:10 AM

new TP52 commission from Frank Pong. Here are two brief excerpts.)

So far the latest crop of TP52s in Europe have included designs from Farr
Yacht Design (Caixa Galicia, Aifos, Bribůn, Atalanti, Bambakou, Siemens),
Bottin & Carkeek (Movistar, Orlanda-Olympus, Balearia), Judel/Vrolijk
(Cristabella) and Reichel-Pugh (Lexus, Patches). This is in addition to
designers Alan Andrews, Grant Davidson, Brett Bakewell-White, Nelson-Marek
and Jim Donovan who also have older generation TP52s built. New to this
inter-yacht design house challenge comes Valencia-based Juan Kouyoumdjian
with a new TP52 for Hong Kong-based owner Frank Pong. Kouyoumdjian has
previously designed Pong's radical 115 footer, Maiden Hong Kong.

In a class where there seems to be very little in the way of significant
difference between boats other than waterline beam and appendages, the Juan
K design looks very different with some ABN AMRO 1-like features such as a
very slight reverse angle to the bow and ... chines? The designer says
'doing something different' is now becoming expected of him by his clients:
"With TP52s you have two types of owner: You have the owners who like to
buy the standard package and make the difference by having Coutts or Cayard
on board and then you have the owners who want the boat itself to make the
difference. I usually get contacted by the second group - never the first
one! I either have to say them 'right we play this game like this and these
are the risks' or we have to tell them go and get a Farr boat. But
sometimes they don't want to go and get a Farr boat..."

#20 2XD

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 11:10 AM

Designers just need a chance to compete and that only comes with someone that is willing to go for something different and take the chance.

Look at the VO70's don jones how many has he done? but warro has taken a chance on him

Also you might get a boat designed a bit cheaper if the designer needs to show his stuff in an emerging design rule ie canters, TP52's VO70's etc etc

#21 mr_ryano

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 12:49 PM

Hey if you're JC and you have the money, why not try something new? If I could afford 2 TP52's in a season, I'd try different designers too.

So, you're JC, you already have a boat that SHOULD be fast, why not can the crew and start over there first??? No sense building another boat if your guys can't make em go

#22 Speng

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 03:07 PM

Ed's fulla shit. Mani Frers has been designing fast boats since before Bruce Farr was losing his virginity to sheep in NZ. His VO60 boat was pretty good IIRC and his Swedish boat in the last AC was pretty decent. If you go with Farr you will have the same boat as all the other guys with Farrs. Do you see any advantage there? Do you think that those IMS abortion specialists (B&C) or Juan Kouyou-what'shisname has anything on Frers? It's not like a TP52's some kind of out there boat like an Open 60.

BTW which boat was Ed talking about anyway? (Bambakou?) I would think the "the former fastest boat" was not Med optimized to of course it's going to be slow in the Med. My thinking is that if any of these Euros take their Med optimized boats out of the Med then they'll get their asses handed to them. I wonder if any of these Med boats are going to do the Fastnet or KWRW or any sailing in locations outside of the Med.

#23 r.finn

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 03:07 PM

Dalton said the same thing during the 98' Whitbread about Merit or whatever the 60' he had was called. So twice he chose the slower boat for the global course?

#24 Smallboatsailor001

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 03:30 PM

I think Speng has a good point, although he might be a bit TOO confident about what would happen outside the Med. My understanding is Farr has approx 3 current TP52 designs ready to go out, one of which was specific to the Med. I IMAGINE this is the one most the med farr fleet is running. Bomboku, I believe, is still the best overall TP52 design out there.......atleast till Kahn stacks up next to him.

Who is driving Bomboku in the Med? Owner correct? If so, i'd imagine that to have an impact as well.

San Fran BBS and KWRW will be where we see what the difference in the new generation truely is.

#25 sailmaker

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 03:39 PM

Does anyone else here belive that Lexus' dominace has anything to do with Coutts? Until all the boats get together in Miami with Cat 1 drivers, it a little too early to say the older boats are uncompetitive.

And Frers a bit of a gamble? No way. Great designer. Pisco Sour ahs won its share of races, a B & C design.

#26 Right Coast

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 03:48 PM

Between the MedCup, BBS, KWRW & the TP52 Global Championship which will be run concurrently with Miami Race Week, I think we'll see how the designs stack up in varying conditions.

In the mean time we'll just have to stick to making assumptions and sweeping generalizations based upon incomplete data, this is SA afterall, and we're experts at that.

#27 Still

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 03:48 PM

It's a gamble going with a Mani Frers or Juan K. They simply have less experience with the parameters of the rule.

I think I'd rather race one of these babies to Hawaii than slat around the Med on a boat logo'ed up the ying yang, racing against pro drivers. Not sure if the Med scene is anything more than a commercial exercise.

#28 Never was

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 06:39 PM

Ed's fulla shit. Mani Frers has been designing fast boats since before Bruce Farr was losing his virginity to sheep in NZ. 

Uh...Mani is G. Frers Jr. German Frers (IOR legend) is his father who slightly predates B. Farr. I think Mani's grandfather was also German Frers. Don't ask me why he isn't III. They mainly do that in Connecticut.

#29 Trov„o

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 07:01 PM

Uh...Mani is G. Frers Jr. German Frers (IOR legend) is his father who slightly predates B. Farr. I think Mani's grandfather was also German Frers. Don't ask me why he isn't III. They mainly do that in Connecticut.

You're absolutely right about the genealogy thing. Mani's grandfather is German Frers Sr., the founder of the Frers' boat design dinasty. And there is also Josť "Pepe" Frers, Mani's uncle and also a talented boat designer himself. As for not being German Frers III, it's probably because they've got their mother's maiden family name before the Frers, which is kinda common in Argentina (as well as in other hispanic countries). Oh, and BTW, I think Frers' 1st TP52 probably won't be kicking ass, but maybe 2nd or 3rd one will.

#30 d'ranger

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 07:10 PM

It's easy to see how Frers could be considered the dark horce in the TP race.

gotta like it though - and they don't have that much to lose, as the 'smart' money is betting on Farr. They can look like winners just for being competitive - they certainly knew how to exploit the old rules, some great IOR boats from there. No reason they can't do the same with this.

#31 Trov„o

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 07:34 PM

or maybe everyone should be forced to go the farr way, so instead of having a box rule class, it would be almost OD.

#32 Still

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 07:56 PM

It's easy to see how Frers could be considered the dark horce in the TP race.

gotta like it though - and they don't have that much to lose, as the 'smart' money is betting on Farr.  They can look like winners just for being competitive - they certainly knew how to exploit the old rules, some great IOR boats from there.  No reason they can't do the same with this.

But the owner won't look at it that way. Anything other than outright fast boat (which is what Esmeralda/Bambakou is, outside the Med hothouse) would be a huge disappointment.

I think they'd be a great firm top go with for a big fast stylish racer-cruiser-racer.

#33 _DB

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:08 PM

Oh, and BTW, I think Frers' 1st TP52 probably won't be kicking ass, but maybe 2nd or 3rd one will.

Do you think he'll get a chance to design a second if the first one isn't fast?

For that matter will Andrews, Davidson, Bakewell-White, Nelson-Marek or Donovan ever get a chance to design a second???

#34 Trov„o

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:12 PM

Do you think he'll get a chance to design a second if the first one isn't fast?

For that matter will Andrews, Davidson, Bakewell-White, Nelson-Marek or Donovan ever get a chance to design a second???

I didn't mean the 1st wouldn't be fast. I meant it wouldn't be the fastest TP just out of the boatyard.

#35 spectator

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:30 PM

Currently Bottin & Carkeek (Movistar) is leading in points in the Copa Del Rey regatta, this is no small feat! and the Reichel-Pugh (Lexus) in 3rd is marching up and today is currently leading the long distance race which carries double points.

This regatta is a long regatta & is full on and should be an excellent measuring stick on which program/boat is fast and who is slow this year.

B & C has recently made there name in IMS but also seems to have gotten there TP52 design right on the mark.

I'm not sure Frers will be able to do the same; He seems to have been out of the competitive market for a while and his pencil may not be as sharp as others, but I do hope he proves everyone wrong. More designers that are up to speed , the better!

#36 Right Coast

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Posted 03 August 2005 - 08:56 PM

The race 3 result is for the 1st portion of today's race, they are still on the water at this moment, expected to finish the distance/offshore portion around midnight local time.

#37 Jambalaya

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 08:14 AM

or maybe everyone should be forced to go the farr way, so instead of having a box rule class, it would be almost OD.

No dissrespect to you personally .. but that's a really really shit idea

The whole impetous for the TP52's centers around the box rule concept ..

Seems to be a bit of a Farr worship clan here .. sure Farr office has had many successes and drawn some popular OD boats .. but so have others .. Farr is not as prominant in Europe as in the US.. Farr has many challenges to master yet, AC, Open 60's ...

#38 Terrafirma

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 08:22 AM

No dissrespect to you personally .. but that's a really really shit idea

The whole impetous for the TP52's centers around the box rule concept ..

Seems to be a bit of a Farr worship clan here .. sure Farr office has had many successes and drawn some popular OD boats .. but so have others .. Farr is not as prominant in Europe as in the US.. Farr has many challenges to master yet, AC, Open 60's ...

Fair comment, although I don't believe these forums are pro Farr as you claim, in fact I believe the opposite. Although I will defend Farr when it comes to mastering the AC, I believe if you put Coutts & Co in charge of the BMW Oracle campaign, they would have won the last cup and would win the next one easily, nothing wrong with the boat, was as fast if not faster than Alinghi, ask anyone.

Open 60's , comeon, only just started and Virbac can only be sailed as fast as the individual in charge of it, breakages allowed. So credit where credit is due, but these forums provide the perfect opportunity for all types of designers to be heard and sold. Over the last month I have learnt of designers I had never even heard of via these forums.

The question I make to everyone, if it were your money who would you have to design your boat..??

#39 Buckie Lugger

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 09:46 AM

I think that it depends on the class, and what sort of mood you're in. The below are for an Open 60, since I follow them more than the TP52s.

Safe Options: Owen Clarke, Lombard, Farr

All three have designed recent, fast boats. Yes, Virbac has suffered a lot of breakages and dismastings, but she won the TJV fresh out of the box, and I think that Riou's input will debug Farr's next generation boat.

Slightly Riskier Options: Simon Rogers, Guillaume Verdier

Verdier was a part of the Finot office, and worked on the updates to PRB. He came up with a very nice looking design for Maurel, which hasn't been built as yet. Rogers has designed some fast Minis, but not a 60 to date.

Leftfield: Francois Rougier (Rougier Ingenerie), Brett Bakewell-White

Rougier and Bakewell-White have both investigated very different Open 60 concepts. Radical boats are either glorious successes or spectacular failures, but offer the chance of building something that offers a step-up in performance.

#40 Trov„o

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 02:20 PM

No dissrespect to you personally .. but that's a really really shit idea

The whole impetous for the TP52's centers around the box rule concept ..

Seems to be a bit of a Farr worship clan here .. sure Farr office has had many successes and drawn some popular OD boats .. but so have others .. Farr is not as prominant in Europe as in the US.. Farr has many challenges to master yet, AC, Open 60's ...


it was supposed to be a joke. on another thread, about new designers trying vor boats, i defended the idea, cause i think it's really nice for the sport to move away from the pack. sorry if i didn't make myself clear enough that i was joking. my mistake.

#41 Jambalaya

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 04:13 PM

No dissrespect to you personally .. but that's a really really shit idea

The whole impetous for the TP52's centers around the box rule concept ..

Seems to be a bit of a Farr worship clan here .. sure Farr office has had many successes and drawn some popular OD boats .. but so have others .. Farr is not as prominant in Europe as in the US.. Farr has many challenges to master yet, AC, Open 60's ...


it was supposed to be a joke. on another thread, about new designers trying vor boats, i defended the idea, cause i think it's really nice for the sport to move away from the pack. sorry if i didn't make myself clear enough that i was joking. my mistake.

No need to apologise .. not the first time I've taken a post too seriously ..

#42 Trov„o

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 04:37 PM

No dissrespect to you personally .. but that's a really really shit idea

The whole impetous for the TP52's centers around the box rule concept ..

Seems to be a bit of a Farr worship clan here .. sure Farr office has had many successes and drawn some popular OD boats .. but so have others .. Farr is not as prominant in Europe as in the US.. Farr has many challenges to master yet, AC, Open 60's ...


it was supposed to be a joke. on another thread, about new designers trying vor boats, i defended the idea, cause i think it's really nice for the sport to move away from the pack. sorry if i didn't make myself clear enough that i was joking. my mistake.

No need to apologise .. not the first time I've taken a post too seriously ..

ok then.

#43 Ned

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 04:48 PM

The question I make to everyone, if it were your money who would you have to design your boat..??

Bieker or Swarbrick

Those who remember the Farr domination of late IOR and IMS in addition to the VOR respect his and the firms ability to master a challlenging box. They'll also recall the iterative development of the boats and evolutionary creep as newer boats obsoleted the older ones. The well sailed/well prepped boats were always on top though and having the latest Farr boat wasn't a guarantee of success. Just that at that point in the game few were willing to spend that kind of cash on less than a sure thing.

The AC track record is equally consistent in a different direction which is puzzling. Agreed that most recently it could be a software rather than a hardware issue.

#44 f off

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 07:32 PM

Just been back from Palma and watched the racing, if you consider the the differences in hull shape of the boats it is amazing how close in speed they are on the water.
Results are being driven by boathandling and tactics not the boats.
This is awesome sailing.
Last update from Spain: for next year espectation is 25-30 boats!

Boathandling and tactics is what it is all about. Sounds great. Hope I have a chance to see some of it someday.

BTW anyone know the story of Yellow Jacket. Sails say TP52 but is listed as a Farr 53. Did someone roally screw the pooch? Boat is sailed on the Chesapeake.

#45 mr_ryano

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 07:41 PM

Just been back from Palma and watched the racing, if you consider the the differences in hull shape of the boats it is amazing how close in speed they are on the water.
Results are being driven by  boathandling and tactics not the boats.
This is awesome sailing.
Last update from Spain: for next year espectation is 25-30 boats!

Boathandling and tactics is what it is all about. Sounds great. Hope I have a chance to see some of it someday.

BTW anyone know the story of Yellow Jacket. Sails say TP52 but is listed as a Farr 53. Did someone roally screw the pooch? Boat is sailed on the Chesapeake.

Yellow Jecket was an IMS Farr 53 at BI this year. I think it was originally one of the many Bribon's from Spain.

#46 Right Coast

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 07:48 PM

Yellow Jacket is a Farr IMS 53 ex. Talisman. There's no TP52 logo on her main.

Posted Image

#47 Still

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 07:51 PM


The question I make to everyone, if it were your money who would you have to design your boat..??


Swarbrick

You are a gamblin' man, then.

I can think of twenty guys I'd slide ahead of JS, not because there's anything "wrong" with Swarbrick but because he has no history of drawing successful raceboats in many years. Sure one of these "out of the box" thinkers might hit a home run, but it is a hell of a gamble when the "box" of the rule is fairly well defined.

Even at this point, I think you'd want somebody who has been close to the class, has a firm understanding of the rule, and has an idea about exploiting a nuance or subtlety to squeeze out an increment of speed.

This is especially true if it is now boiling down to boathandling as a bigger determinant than design.

#48 Ned

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Posted 04 August 2005 - 08:00 PM


The question I make to everyone, if it were your money who would you have to design your boat..??


Swarbrick

You are a gamblin' man, then.

I can think of twenty guys I'd slide ahead of JS, not because there's anything "wrong" with Swarbrick but because he has no history of drawing successful raceboats in many years. Sure one of these "out of the box" thinkers might hit a home run, but it is a hell of a gamble when the "box" of the rule is fairly well defined.

Even at this point, I think you'd want somebody who has been close to the class, has a firm understanding of the rule, and has an idea about exploiting a nuance or subtlety to squeeze out an increment of speed.

This is especially true if it is now boiling down to boathandling as a bigger determinant than design.

he's well ahead of Juan K on the list. but it's all very theoretical for me, having two I14's is making me bleed.

and yes, I think they're at the point of its about not making mistakes more than anything else. because with potential boatspeed pretty much maximized its all about minimizing slowness.

#49 moody frog

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 08:30 AM

Copa del Rey (Palma) overall standings last night, after offshore race, make fit a reopening of the thread, and (in my opinion) boost the need to bring as many designers as possible to the class.

1. R/P (Team Lexus) 2/ Farr (Caixa Galicia) 3/ Judel-Vrolijk (Cristabella) 4/ Botin-Carkeek (Pisco Sour) 5/ Farr (Atalanti)

Great !

#50 Terrafirma

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 08:51 AM


The question I make to everyone, if it were your money who would you have to design your boat..??

Bieker or Swarbrick

Those who remember the Farr domination of late IOR and IMS in addition to the VOR respect his and the firms ability to master a challlenging box. They'll also recall the iterative development of the boats and evolutionary creep as newer boats obsoleted the older ones. The well sailed/well prepped boats were always on top though and having the latest Farr boat wasn't a guarantee of success. Just that at that point in the game few were willing to spend that kind of cash on less than a sure thing.

The AC track record is equally consistent in a different direction which is puzzling. Agreed that most recently it could be a software rather than a hardware issue.

Hey Ned, Not pissing in your pocket man, but I think you make the most sense most of the time, probably all the time, in everything you say. Once again you have summed up very well and your answer typifies that. Keep posting. !

#51 Terrafirma

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 08:53 AM

Copa del Rey (Palma) overall standings last night, after offshore race, make fit a reopening of the thread, and (in my opinion) boost the need to bring as many designers as possible to the class.

1. R/P (Team Lexus) 2/ Farr (Caixa Galicia) 3/ Judel-Vrolijk (Cristabella) 4/ Botin-Carkeek (Pisco Sour) 5/ Farr (Atalanti)

Great !

Thats fantastic, was Lexus with Coutts and Co..?? It seems they have gotten their program up and running very well and look at the results, are we about to see a domination of the class from this boat and team, how far behind was the Farr Galicia..?

#52 moody frog

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 09:08 AM

Copa del Rey (Palma) overall standings last night, after offshore race, make fit a reopening of the thread, and (in my opinion) boost the need to bring as many designers as possible to the class.

1. R/P (Team Lexus)† 2/ Farr (Caixa Galicia) 3/ Judel-Vrolijk (Cristabella)† 4/ Botin-Carkeek (Pisco Sour) 5/ Farr (Atalanti)

Great !

Thats fantastic, was Lexus with Coutts and Co..?? It seems they have gotten their program up and running very well and look at the results, are we about to see a domination of the class from this boat and team, how far behind was the Farr Galicia..?

Coutts Skippering, Barker steering !

What will happen next : not sure I hope !

Caixa Galicia was up there most of the offshore, I read, then was overtaken by Cristabella and .....Atalanti (a team to watch, Paul C. ?)

To add up to the interest report writes that Bribon, up w. the leaders most of the race, lost 6 places in one single (small, they say) mistake.

#53 Ren

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 11:09 AM

Coutts Skippering, Barker steering !

Actually, Barker on helmed the boat for the Breitling Cup since Coutts was doing Transpac(?) Team Q/Lexus now has the same crew as they did for the first two events back on the boat: Isler-navigator, Reynolds-tactician, Russel's Dutch Mob-most crew positions

#54 GME

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 03:04 PM

Caption for the Picture.

Well Paul I would love to give you the answer to that question but as you can see my vision is obscured by this big Finn Sailor Standing in my way and my handy computer is on the frits and I am not steering the boat and..............

#55 Ren

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 03:07 PM

Is that Ed Adams? And why is his ass so wet?? :wacko:

#56 Trov„o

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 03:08 PM

Is that Ed Adams? And why is his ass so wet?? :wacko:

uhmm, maybe he just peed on his pants.

#57 Speng

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Posted 05 August 2005 - 08:48 PM

I like the look of the Lexus boat. The hull flare is sexy.

I have a gripe about this Med shit... These boat should be doing harder core offshore stiff like the Fastnet and other stuff in the Atlantic. Overniters in the Med don't count. Hopefully all this Med sailing doesn't push them into a bad corner of the box. Luckily the box is tight so they shouldn't be hopeless elsewhere if that does happen and as Patches is showing in Cowes the boats rate decently under IRC

#58 Right Coast

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Posted 06 August 2005 - 03:48 PM

They are doing what they, and their sponsors, want to do. And truthfully, it is the best thing for the class at this point in time. By sailing in these high visibility events they will generate more interest in the class. Once the Med fleet gets through the first season and shows the doubters that the class exists in Europe, and once they get all the programs that have committed in the water and sailing, then they can go off and explore other events. The danger is in spreading things out too much, you don't want to create a logistics issue that deters participation in some events, and don't want to spread the fleet out with competeing events.

#59 equivocator

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 12:56 AM

Do you think he'll get a chance to design a second if the first one isn't fast?

For that matter will Andrews, Davidson, Bakewell-White, Nelson-Marek or Donovan ever get a chance to design a second???

I didn't mean the 1st wouldn't be fast. I meant it wouldn't be the fastest TP just out of the boatyard.


Hey. Frers could do as well as other dark horse designers, which for the TP52 class, seems to be anyone other than Farr. It's a tough league at that level, and its been pretty tough for newcomers to break in, given Farr Designs' formidable publicity and marketing ability. Even Reichel/ Pugh has had teething problems with this class, and a number of established RPYD customers have gone to Farr, such as Pegasus' Phillippe Kahn, and Bright Star.

RP's first boat, Rosebud, has had mixed results, winning only the Bermuda Race, Big Boat Series, Transpac, and some more minor events. No wonder RP hasn't been able to avoid the stampede to Farr.

Their present generation is barely more successful, with only two series wins by the brand-new Lexus in the Mediterranean Circuit, and a couple of wins in England under the IRC Rule by the mostly-amateur crew of the new Irish-owned TP52 Patches .

I'm sure that RP and their clients are hopeful their next boats will be more successful, but results aside, it's been pretty hard for anyone to beat the Farr marketing landslide. B)

#60 moody frog

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Posted 07 August 2005 - 09:33 AM

" it's been pretty hard for anyone to beat the Farr marketing landslide"

Equivocator I am sure Botin & Carkeek will have a thought about you when Pisco Sour climbs on the winner's podium in Palma (still to be decided) as they already did in Valencia. R/P potentially ahead of Farr.

That would make, out of 4 series, 2 for B/C, 1 for R/P, 1 for Farr (the very first one)

#61 moody frog

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 09:05 AM


Equivocator I am sure Botin & Carkeek will have a thought about you when Pisco Sour climbs on the winner's podium in Palma (still to be decided) as they already did in Valencia. R/P potentially ahead of Farr

Lexus closed the deal, Vasco ended up 3rd.
I do agree with you though, Botin's boats are pretty sick and seem pretty damn fast.

Wrong shot for me, this R.C is just too good ! (m.be Movistar shd not hv fouled this spinnaker take down.....)

1/: R/P 2/: Farr 3 /: B&C 4/: Farr 5/: B&C with (1 point out of 60) difference between placings THIS IS close !

6 Farrs out of 11 starters

insider view : ""After the regatta Atalanti XV tactician Paul Cayard said "The problem, to be honest, is that we don't have the fastest boat." "" despite coming 2nd, does not say who is fast though




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