[Doug Lord]

I agree completely-It's unfortunate that he has not been honored as he should be. He was brilliant and should receive the honor he deserves!

[fan]

N

[fan]

Y

[fan]

Y

[fan]

C

[Jacko_Aus]

Ben Lexcen snubbed again....


This years inductees are:

George ‘Fritz’ Jewett Jr
Alan Payne
Jack Sutphen

[Kiwi Spy]

Jacko_Aus, on Jun 3 2005, 08:47 PM, said:

Ben Lexcen snubbed again....

I think it is now at the point, if not past it, where NYYC and Herreshoff are actually snubbing themselves when they refuse to honour the designer of the first challenger to win the America's Cup Match. And the longer this pettiness continues, the sillier and smaller they look. Meanwhile Ben Lexcen just grows in stature.

[Presuming Ed]

Kiwi Spy, on Jun 3 2005, 09:17 AM, said:

I think it is now at the point, if not past it, where NYYC and Herreshoff are actually snubbing themselves when they refuse to honour the designer of the first challenger to win the America's Cup Match. And the longer this pettiness continues, the sillier and smaller they look. Meanwhile Ben Lexcen just grows in stature.

Think they're way past it, myself. If anybody wanted to find a way of making themselves look like a pathetic, whinging, ungracious and unsportsmanlike fool, then the America's Cup Hall of Fame provides an unrivalled example.

[Phil]

What he said,thanks Ed.

[GRUMPY]

They've been doing what he said since day 1 haven't they. What was that headline? "Australia rules the waves, America waives the rules"

[Presuming Ed]

GRUMPY, on Jun 3 2005, 09:56 AM, said:

They've been doing what he said since day 1 haven't they. What was that headline? "Australia rules the waves, America waives the rules"

The original was "Britannia rules the waves. America waives the rules", after Endeavour's protest was disallowed.

[Kiwi Spy]

Sail-World, on Jun 3 2005, 09:59 PM, said:

Is there any known public comment on Lexcen from the Hall of Fame admiinstrastors in recent years?

I would think that they are still in denial.

Ben who??

The Dutchman designed the boat, didn't he?

Yeah Right!

[Chris 249]

The tortous thinking of the NYYC on Ben Bob and Aus II have always been beyond belief.

It's like the way they said that if the boat was heeled, it would draw more therefore it should be re-rated. That totally ignored the fact that just about every other dimension of a boat changes when you heel....lwl increases for a start, so no 12 is a 12 if measured heeled.

It's like the way they said the wing keel was "a peculiarity" and therefore should be banned, when they had been happy to have two boats with two square steps below the waterline....damn peculiar that was, the only difference was that it didn't work.

Best one I recall was one of the NYYC team (Loomis????? ... quoted in Seahorse) saying that, if he was Alan Bond and a Dutchman have told him he could design a faster boat, he would have told him yes, go fot it.

Basically, the NYYC guy said that because HE would have cheated in Bondy's position, therefore Bondy must have cheated. Talk about friggin stoopid logic.....I would cheat, ergo everyone else is a cheat. Bondy was a dickwit in business but there was never any other talk of him cheating in sailing, never mind any talk of Benny etc cheating.

Oh, no, the best ones could be Connor saying that he can tell how fast as legal boat could go, and since Aust 2 was faster than he thought it should be, therefore it must be illegal (see "Comeback").

The funny thing was that this very same Big Bad Dennis, the man gifted with these supernatural skills, somehow never noticed when he did the entire SORC on a cheating boat (Williwaw). Talk about *&^%$#@ing bullshit....if he could tell when a 12 was incorrectly rated, he must have been able to tell when a Peterson 46 was incorrectly rated, surely. He can't have it both ways.

Oh, yeah, what about the fact that Courageous actually rated 12.4m (I'm not 100% sure about the figure, I am sure about the problem) when she won the 1974 AC (see article in Yachting including interview with Stephens....).

[Presuming Ed]

Chris 249, on Jun 3 2005, 12:53 PM, said:

Oh, no, the best ones could be Connor saying that he can tell how fast as legal boat could go, and since Aust 2 was faster than he thought it should be, therefore it must be illegal (see "Comeback").

The funny thing was that this very same Big Bad Dennis, the man gifted with these supernatural skills, somehow never noticed when he did the entire SORC on a cheating boat (Williwaw). Talk about *&^%$#@ing bullshit....if he could tell when a 12 was incorrectly rated, he must have been able to tell when a Peterson 46 was incorrectly rated, surely. He can't have it both ways.

How about his “Why would you build a glass 12-Metre yacht unless you wanted to cheat?” - um, maybe because you can build a stiffer structure for the same weight?

And how about Liberty's two certificates. In his autobiog, Olin Stephens doesn't seem to be too keen on that idea...

[sailman]

Chris 249, on Jun 3 2005, 11:53 AM, said:

The tortous thinking of the NYYC on Ben Bob and Aus II have always been beyond belief.

It's like the way they said that if the boat was heeled, it would draw more therefore it should be re-rated. That totally ignored the fact that just about every other dimension of a boat changes when you heel....lwl increases for a start, so no 12 is a 12 if measured heeled.

It's like the way they said the wing keel was "a peculiarity" and therefore should be banned, when they had been happy to have two boats with two square steps below the waterline....damn peculiar that was, the only difference was that it didn't work.

Best one I recall was one of the NYYC team (Loomis????? ... quoted in Seahorse) saying that, if he was Alan Bond and a Dutchman have told him he could design a faster boat, he would have told him yes, go fot it.

Basically, the NYYC guy said that because HE would have cheated in Bondy's position, therefore Bondy must have cheated. Talk about friggin stoopid logic.....I would cheat, ergo everyone else is a cheat. Bondy was a dickwit in business but there was never any other talk of him cheating in sailing, never mind any talk of Benny etc cheating.

Oh, no, the best ones could be Connor saying that he can tell how fast as legal boat could go, and since Aust 2 was faster than he thought it should be, therefore it must be illegal (see "Comeback").

The funny thing was that this very same Big Bad Dennis, the man gifted with these supernatural skills, somehow never noticed when he did the entire SORC on a cheating boat (Williwaw). Talk about *&^%$#@ing bullshit....if he could tell when a 12 was incorrectly rated, he must have been able to tell when a Peterson 46 was incorrectly rated, surely. He can't have it both ways.

Oh, yeah, what about the fact that Courageous actually rated 12.4m (I'm not 100% sure about the figure, I am sure about the problem) when she won the 1974 AC (see article in Yachting including interview with Stephens....).

I thought that the whole Dutch angle was that Lexan did his tank testing in the Netherlands and back then it was truly a country vs country effort defined in the rules. Meaning that everything had to be done in the home country, i.e. design, build, materials, etc.

I would like to see a return to that style, no more multi-nationalities and everything designed and produced from "home grown" material.

Just my 3 cents

Will Museler

[Chris 249]

I'm pretty sure you could use tank-testing facilities outside your country, but the "design" had to be by a national. AFAIK there was a specific exemption allowing you to sue an out-of-country tank test since we and other countries didn't have a decent test tank.

The NYYC said that ...ohhhh god, too many wines on Friday evening......Dutch dude from the tank testing facility, you know who I mean....anyway the NYYC said HE had designed the keel ergo not an Aussie boat. Oh, Van Oosalen, that's the guy.

The funny thing was, they were all so dead serious about it when the US defender was a Johan Valentjin design, and Johan was a Dutchman who had already helped draw Australia (1) for Ben Bob, before he decided to draw for the Yanks. So the NYYC was horrified that maybe someone else's Dutchman had helped design a boat that would beat the boat designed by their own Dutchman.

They also tried to say the winged keel on an Aussie 12 was a peculiarity, when winged keels had been proposed by the two previous Aussie 12 designers in print. Geddoudahere NYYC.

However, the NYYC DOES throw a good post-regatta party, let's have no doubt about that.

[sailorpapa]

this hall of fame foolishness has no credibility without ben!

[Heaven can wait]

On reading John Bertrand's auto-biography"Born to Win", it's quite miraculas us Aussies won the "Bloody" thing at all - talk about the "Wobbles".

I also think the irony of the 1983 campaign was the fact that JB said that Liberty was the faster boat. "We had the advantage of being able to turn faster, and our boat was better prepared than Liberty. But that was it?

After all the hype that surrounded the Australia II campaign and it's keel, apparently Challenge 12 was faster according to JB.

In the world of "Bennurisms" Mr Miller (who had to change his name because of Patent/Copyright/Legal reasons, took on his wifes maiden name "Lexcen" and the Benny bit was the name of his dog) changed the Sailing World as we know it, we were all fortunate that things worked out the way they did, because in a perfect world, Benny's keel didn't allow for the slop of Rhode Island Sound.

Before, during and after the Cup Finals, it was clear to the NYYC that Benny and his mysterious appendage weren't coatia. Benny's distain toward the Cup establishment is forever folklaw, and one could only imagine the core of emotions our Benny went through at that final gun.

For me the Great Benny snub will always be in reflection of his Famous Quote: "Once we get the Auld Mug home we'll all look at it for what it is, then I'll take it out the back and turn the Bloody thing into a Hub Cap".

The apparent subtle swipe by Benny was not taken at all well by the NYYC Race Commitee, as they have obviously vowed to never recognize the man for what he did for the Australia II Campaign.

And I think if the Hall of Fame'rs can't see past there own shvincters then we'll have a beer for him. Benny has earned the right to be officially recognized in the America's Cup Hall of Fame, and for his Hiensight behind his famous "Hub Cap" quote, for all we know when Australia II won the Auld Mug, that was the end of the America's Cup as we will always remember it.

Get over it NYYC and all Yer cronnies and recognize Benny's stunning contribution to Sailing History and let the man RIP.

[freddy]

do you think he'd give a s***.......???

Reckon he'd be chuckling at the idiots at NYYC at the trouble and controversy he's still causing....this hall of fame thing is some seppo invention for seppo's.....do they exist anywhere else in the world..???

[yowie]

Ben Bob designed and built many fast boats. Some radical and winning 18 foot skiffs (like Taipanand Venom), several yachts such as Apollo and Ginkgo, :D and was a partner in a successful sailmaking business. He also competed at Olympic level, was far from a one hit wonder and is due that induction if there is any justice.

Its fitting they induct one of the single biggest fraudsters in Australian corporate history and with the poorest memory of where those billions all went, like inducts like.

They forget the reason they exist, to celebrate our best in yachting.

No big deal, they will just lose relevance.

[Jacko_Aus]

Chris 249, on Jun 3 2005, 10:19 PM, said:

Oh, Van Oosalen, that's the guy.

The funny thing was...

Even funnier, said Dutchman, Peter van Oossanen, actually grew up in Australia:

Quote

Peter (in Dutch: Pieter) van Oossanen was born in Haarlem, The Netherlands, on 20 June 1943. In 1951 he and his family moved to Australia, where he obtained his Leaving Certificate at Balgowlah High School, in Sydney, in 1960. In 1964 he returned to the Netherlands to study Naval Architecture....

[Recidivist]

Heaven can wait, on Jun 3 2005, 02:23 PM, said:

In the world of "Bennurisms" Mr Miller (who had to change his name because of Patent/Copyright/Legal reasons, took on his wifes maiden name "Lexcen" and the Benny bit was the name of his dog)

Heaven

Bob Miller and Craig Whitworth were partners in Miller and Whitworth sailmakers (they sailed together in Flying Dutchment and started making their own sails - it went from there). Bob (as was then) was also doing design work which was his first love. Although no involvement by Craig in the design side, the office was called Miller and Whitworth Designs (or similar). They opened a branch in the UK in conjunction with a brit whose name I can't remember. The UK office started producing designs of their own that Bob didn't want his name associated with. He found he couldn't force them to change the name of the UK office so he dissociated himself by changing his own name.

Bob had people poring through phone books to find a name that didn't exist so he could never be caught up again - Lexcen was arrived at that way - a previously non-existent name.

I never knew why he changed the Bob to Ben - I thought it was from the song "Benny and the Jets" (that's what his hangers-on called themselves, but that may have been later).

Quote

For me the Great Benny snub will always be in reflection of his Famous Quote: "Once we get the Auld Mug home we'll all look at it for what it is, then I'll take it out the back and turn the Bloody thing into a Hub Cap".

As I recall the hub cap story, Bob/Ben had threatened that if they won the Cup he was going to throw it under a steam roller and turn it into the "America's f*cking Plate". To try to avoid this outcome the NYYC presented him with a Plymouth hub cap when they did in fact win.