[Scurvy Pete]

So we got into a friendly office debate on what the origins of the terms "Port" and "Starboard" for the sides of the boat/ship. I thought I would throw it up here and see what answers all you old salts and history buffs come up with.

One side says it was from the Romans, when boats had a sideboard type drop keel (not sure of correct term) attached to the gunnel on one side which prevented docking on that side - so the port side was the only side that could face the dock w/o crushing the keel board.

The other side says that up until 19th century "Starboard" and "Larboard" were used, but was often a cause for confusion and danger in high winds and seas as they sound almost the same. So the term "Port" was created circa 1850's to resolve this.

Is either side correct? I have no idea but assume the truth lies somewhere between them.

[Bow Monkey]

I had heard mostly the same thing, but not positive it was a Roman thing. As far as I know starboard came from Steer board (rudder), which was hung on the right side creating the same docking situation you described.

[Sailing Pro Shop]

It is my understanding that the term STRABOARD comes from "Steering board" or a rudder on a long tiller on the right side of the boat. You then docked the boat on the opposite side or the PORT side to avoid damaging your steering board.

[181Li]

Prior to the invention of the stern post rudder, boats were helmed using a steering oar on the right side of the boat. Steering board became starboard, and the other side was larboard.

Port came into use in the mid 1800's when steam and machinery noises made it difficult for any command to be heard.

[Digital Vibrations]

From the word detective:

Starboard, as all weekend sailors know, is the right side of the boat (or ship), and "port" is the left. We'll start with starboard, which appeared in English around 893 A.D. It comes from the Old English word "steorbord," based on the elements "steor" (steering paddle) and "bord" (meaning, in this case, the side of a boat). On ancient Teutonic ships, the paddle used to steer was mounted on the right side of the ship (as opposed to the stern, where most modern rudders are located). The "steorbord," or "steering side," was, therefore, the right side of the boat or ship. "Steorbord" gradually changed to "starboard" over the years, probably because "star" is a modern English word that people recognize, while "steor" is not. But the term has nothing to do with stars.

The other (left) side of the ship was not originally called "port." It was known as the "larboard" side, but just why is a bit of a mystery. It may be that "larboard" was based on words meaning "back side" (since the helmsman would have his back to that side). Or it may have been based on "lade" (to load) since the left, non-rudder side would be the side tied to a pier and receiving cargo.

In any case, "larboard" turned out to be far too easy to confuse with "starboard," and was eventually replaced with "port," referring, again, to the fact that the left side was the side over which cargo was loaded in port.

[Rail Meat]

I am no expert, but I believe both have a grain of truth to them, but that neither is exactly correct.

What I have read is that the sweep rudder (or board) used to be positioned on the right or "steor" (old english word for steering) side of the boat. This positioning of the rudder dates back to Viking times. "Steor" ultimately became "star" as the english language evolved.

Port used to be "Larboard", the word "Lar" indicating the loading side, or the side that could be tied up to the dock without damaging the rudder. At some point, perhaps for clarity's sake, Larboard became Port, which effectively designated the same thing.... the side of the boat that could be tied to the dock in port.


edit : (guess I did not type fast enough)

[ghotio]

Starboard is generally accepted as a corruption of steerboard. But port was officially the replacement of larboard in 1844 but it's origins can be seen some 300 years earlier when Vice Admiral Sir Henry Mainwaring wrote in his seaman's Dictionary "Port. Is a word used in Conding a ship....they will use the word steddy a-port, or steddy a-starboard." Most probably refering to the loading port on the left hand side of a vessel. Sailing warships also had an entry port on the left hand side.

[Scurvy Pete]

Thanks. I had a feeling both ideas came into play.

I found similar but incomplete explanations on wikipedia. Like they had no description of where "Larboard" came from. They also went as far as saying since more people are right handed than left handed, the sailor manning the steering oar stood on the right side of the stern, thus right became steerboard->starboard. Interesting argument.

[ghotio]

Try this one for all you budding naval historians. What is the Devil in the phrase "between the devil and the deep blue sea"

[Presuming Ed]

ghotio, on Nov 15 2005, 01:48 PM, said:

Try this one for all you budding naval historians. What is the Devil in the phrase "between the devil and the deep blue sea"

Have heard a couple of different claimants. The same Devil as in "The Devil to pay, and no pitch hot"?

Either a) the deck seam between the bulwark and the covering board - i.e. the outermost one.

or B) the seam between the keel and the garboard planks.

[ghotio]

Presuming Ed, on Nov 15 2005, 01:57 PM, said:

ghotio, on Nov 15 2005, 01:48 PM, said:

Try this one for all you budding naval historians. What is the Devil in the phrase "between the devil and the deep blue sea"

Have heard a couple of different claimants. The same Devil as in "The Devil to pay, and no pitch hot"?

Either a) the deck seam between the bulwark and the covering board - i.e. the outermost one.

or B) the seam between the keel and the garboard planks.

Very good.

How about the meaning of one of our local terms JAFA, when refering to people you don't really get along with on the water (it might have come from elsewhere on the planet, I just don't know)

[NewportStormer]

DigitalVibrations, on Nov 15 2005, 05:33 AM, said:

From the word detective:

Starboard, as all weekend sailors know, is the right side of the boat (or ship), and "port" is the left. We'll start with starboard, which appeared in English around 893 A.D. It comes from the Old English word "steorbord," based on the elements "steor" (steering paddle) and "bord" (meaning, in this case, the side of a boat). On ancient Teutonic ships, the paddle used to steer was mounted on the right side of the ship (as opposed to the stern, where most modern rudders are located). The "steorbord," or "steering side," was, therefore, the right side of the boat or ship. "Steorbord" gradually changed to "starboard" over the years, probably because "star" is a modern English word that people recognize, while "steor" is not. But the term has nothing to do with stars.

The other (left) side of the ship was not originally called "port." It was known as the "larboard" side, but just why is a bit of a mystery. It may be that "larboard" was based on words meaning "back side" (since the helmsman would have his back to that side). Or it may have been based on "lade" (to load) since the left, non-rudder side would be the side tied to a pier and receiving cargo.

In any case, "larboard" turned out to be far too easy to confuse with "starboard," and was eventually replaced with "port," referring, again, to the fact that the left side was the side over which cargo was loaded in port.

So, I'm guessing the reason why Starboard has right-of-way over port is that when you were on starboard, in old times, you had your back to the boats to leeward (or the boats that were approaching on port), and when you were on port, you were staring right at the boats approaching on starboard...

does anyone know the true answer to this?

I've also heard that is from tiller steering... when you are on starboard, the tiller is in your left hand (90% of the world is right handed), and thus is generally the weaker, less apt side. But the visibility status of the definition of starboard makes more sense.

Does anyone have factual evidence to the right-of-way tradition?

[Rail Meat]

Presuming Ed, on Nov 15 2005, 01:57 PM, said:

ghotio, on Nov 15 2005, 01:48 PM, said:

Try this one for all you budding naval historians. What is the Devil in the phrase "between the devil and the deep blue sea"

Have heard a couple of different claimants. The same Devil as in "The Devil to pay, and no pitch hot"?

Either a) the deck seam between the bulwark and the covering board - i.e. the outermost one.

or B) the seam between the keel and the garboard planks.

I read it was the seam between the bulwark and covering board. And the poor bastard that had to swing outboard to caulk that seam while underway was between that Devil and the deep blue sea.

[Damp Freddie]

Bow Monkey, on Nov 15 2005, 02:30 PM, said:

I had heard mostly the same thing, but not positive it was a Roman thing. As far as I know starboard came from Steer board (rudder), which was hung on the right side creating the same docking situation you described.

Yeah, I think the Norwegian or Danish Vikings lay claim to putting Starboard into the english language


Without metal gudgeons for a stern hung rudder, viking ships (maybe influended by earlier craft) hung the rudder to the right so a right handed helm could steer best.

Styre is norsk for steer. Styrbord is the shout today.

the port explanation makes sense

The other one I heard was when ships were leaving some areas harbour, the rightt was to the stars at night- the stary board, while the other was to the port. Prefer no-. 1 Romans or even trojans.

[Lima November]

NewportStormer, on Nov 15 2005, 03:14 PM, said:

DigitalVibrations, on Nov 15 2005, 05:33 AM, said:

From the word detective:

Starboard, as all weekend sailors know, is the right side of the boat (or ship), and "port" is the left. We'll start with starboard, which appeared in English around 893 A.D. It comes from the Old English word "steorbord," based on the elements "steor" (steering paddle) and "bord" (meaning, in this case, the side of a boat). On ancient Teutonic ships, the paddle used to steer was mounted on the right side of the ship (as opposed to the stern, where most modern rudders are located). The "steorbord," or "steering side," was, therefore, the right side of the boat or ship. "Steorbord" gradually changed to "starboard" over the years, probably because "star" is a modern English word that people recognize, while "steor" is not. But the term has nothing to do with stars.

The other (left) side of the ship was not originally called "port." It was known as the "larboard" side, but just why is a bit of a mystery. It may be that "larboard" was based on words meaning "back side" (since the helmsman would have his back to that side). Or it may have been based on "lade" (to load) since the left, non-rudder side would be the side tied to a pier and receiving cargo.

In any case, "larboard" turned out to be far too easy to confuse with "starboard," and was eventually replaced with "port," referring, again, to the fact that the left side was the side over which cargo was loaded in port.

So, I'm guessing the reason why Starboard has right-of-way over port is that when you were on starboard, in old times, you had your back to the boats to leeward (or the boats that were approaching on port), and when you were on port, you were staring right at the boats approaching on starboard...

does anyone know the true answer to this?

I've also heard that is from tiller steering... when you are on starboard, the tiller is in your left hand (90% of the world is right handed), and thus is generally the weaker, less apt side. But the visibility status of the definition of starboard makes more sense.

Does anyone have factual evidence to the right-of-way tradition?

I'm not sure exactly, but I believe this explanation is wrong. IIRC, right of way rules were first used in yacht races in England in the 1700's, when all boats already had centered rudders. I think on the water ROW rules may be a copy of on land rules, where the vehicle from the right has right of way (is that true in England, btw?). And in upwind situations, the starboard tacker comes from the right side (upwind crossings were the most important in those days: boats tacked to get upwind, but they did not practice VMG running, so most crossings would be upwind).

This is pure speculation, btw.

[Bow Monkey]

ghotio, on Nov 15 2005, 07:48 AM, said:

Try this one for all you budding naval historians. What is the Devil in the phrase "between the devil and the deep blue sea"

I'll take a flyer and guess the devil is a reef.

[Ulfur]

The viking ships had the rudder/steering oar on the the right side and it was called "stjornbordi" where "stjorn" means stearing and "bordi" means side from the same origins as board wich is what the side was made of. The other side was called "bakbordi" where "bak" is back meaning the side your back is turned to while you are steering. Both terms are found in liturature since 1200 and are still in use in Iceland in theyr orignal form and with some small variation in the other nordic languages.

[wraith]

Presuming Ed, on Nov 15 2005, 01:57 PM, said:

ghotio, on Nov 15 2005, 01:48 PM, said:

Try this one for all you budding naval historians. What is the Devil in the phrase "between the devil and the deep blue sea"

Have heard a couple of different claimants. The same Devil as in "The Devil to pay, and no pitch hot"?

Either a) the deck seam between the bulwark and the covering board - i.e. the outermost one.

or B) the seam between the keel and the garboard planks.

Coimes from paying seams with pitch.

The devil was A - the origin is imply that when you have your pot of hot pitch, simply getting access to that seeam (due to bulwarks, cap rail, pin rails, belying pins) was the very devil of a job ....

The hull seams would generally have been red leaded, caulked, and possibly puttied, but never paid with pitch as it doesnt flow uphill very well.

Deck seams were payed, as they needed more room for movement in variable temperatures and degrees of wetness.

[LeoV]

Same in Holland,
Stuurboord, bakboord.

This portside must be an AngloSaksonian thing.

[wraith]

Ulfur, on Nov 15 2005, 03:16 PM, said:

The viking ships had the rudder/steering oar on the the right side and it was called "stjornbordi" where "stjorn" means stearing and "bordi" means side from the same origins as board wich is what the side was made of. The other side was called "bakbordi" where "bak" is back meaning the side your back is turned to while you are steering. Both terms are found in liturature since 1200 and are still in use in Iceland in theyr orignal form and with some small variation in the other nordic languages.

Port reputedly comes because it was tricky to dock with your steerboard alongside the wall - it got damaged.

To get stuff on and off the boat a gangway was run ashore - this was orinally a 'laederbord' (or something close), hence larboard.

After a while an entry port was cut into the larboard bulwarks, and that side became known as the port side ..

[Wavedancer]

Called "Devil" becaue it was the board with the most bend in it, and thus the most difficult to bend compared to the others

[Betty's Boy]

Damp Freddie and Ulfur are correct. The steering board was the offset rudder on the Scandinavian ships in the middle/viking ages.

The verb to steer is 'å styre' in Norwegian and Danish. Styra in Swedish, don't know Icelandic well enough to say, but I believe Icelandic is closest to the language spoken then. Board = bord, a plank.

[Lima November]

LeoV, on Nov 15 2005, 04:24 PM, said:

Same in Holland,
Stuurboord, bakboord.

This portside must be an AngloSaksonian thing.

Lemme see how far I can get:

English: starboard, port
Dutch: stuurboord, bakboord
Swedish: styrbord, babord (same as Dutch)
French: tribord, babord

Most of these are variations on the standard Viking words. Only the English 'port' and the French 'tribord' are different.

Anybody who can add to this list?

[Ulfur]

Icelandic: stjornbordi, bakbordi

[boguing]

Summarising from Admiral Smyth's 'Sailors Word-Book' 1858

The Italians derive starboard from questa borda (this side) and larboard from quella borda (that side) abbreviated into sta borda and la borda . Their resemblance caused so many mistakes that, by order of the admiralty, larboard is now thrown overboard and port substituted. "Port the helm" is even mentioned in Arthur Pit's voyage in 1580.

My father told me the scandinavian one, but Admiral Smyth makes no mention of it.

Seems to be Italy v Scandinavia.