208 replies to this topic

[CazzaRanda]

According to the last update of the "owner" list there are already five boats in the San Francisco area:

San Francisco 3
Clear lakes 1
Yountville 1

San Francisco fleet is born! Let's celebrate...

If you're one of the owners Please PM me your email address (unless you've already done it), I'd like to have a way to reach the SF Bay owners.

Thanks,
Cazza

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["DA MAN"]

CONGRATS! THINK THE SAME HOLDS TRUE FOR SAN DIEGO AND CHICAGO. WE ARE GETTING THRE!

[CazzaRanda]

A bird told me that #69 went to (another) italian in San Francisco, and #70 went to France. French are good at it, but italians do it better...

If we get three other italian "owners" in the west coast I guess we'll organize the Italian nationals in San Fran sometime in late 2007... anybody else with an italian passport handy?

NorCal might not be the biggest fleet, but will certainly be the best looking one... (did I mention my Prada outfit?)

more fireworks...

Cazza

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[Squid]

[and #70 went to France. French are good at it

What? is that true? I am waiting for a french fleet to materialize. I've been pumping the project on a Yacht/Sailing chat board there to see if I can get any interest. Let me know of any details. If things get going there, I am going to join in.

[CazzaRanda]

[and #70 went to France. French are good at it

What? is that true? I am waiting for a french fleet to materialize. I've been pumping the project on a Yacht/Sailing chat board there to see if I can get any interest. Let me know of any details. If things get going there, I am going to join in.

What's that, "voiliers anarchistes"... ?

Call Bill Stevens (or PM DA MAN), he might be able to tell the owner in France to contact you.

Cazza

[raff367]

[and #70 went to France. French are good at it

What? is that true? I am waiting for a french fleet to materialize. I've been pumping the project on a Yacht/Sailing chat board there to see if I can get any interest. Let me know of any details. If things get going there, I am going to join in.

This is the original post that mentioned France: http://www.sailingan...ndpost&p=541061

But what can you do ? Italians are faster than French
So, hull #70 may be the one that goes to France now.
Should we now start to push for an Italian fleet in Italy ?

-- Raffaele

#69 (but don't tell anybody)

[CazzaRanda]

-- Raffaele

#69 (but don't tell anybody)

I think I came up with the name for your hull: "Linguine". At least for once THEY'll have to run to the dictionary...

Ciao,
Cazza

[MR.CLEAN]

NorCal might not be the biggest fleet, but will certainly be the best looking one... (did I mention my Prada outfit?)

Cazza

Wanna put money on that? I dub your boat "sborrone" And I'll be Ruffiano

[bjmoose]

Just a thought to the SF Bay guys.

I strongly suggest you consider buying boats on trailers.

Sailing in the Bay is GREAT thing, but it's not the ONLY thing. A boat on a trailer has access to Santa Cruz, Monterey, Huntington Lake, Lake Tahoe. Not to mention racing to Santa Cruz with the Windjammers, then hauling out and driving back at 55mph, instead of a long uphill water delivery.

If a fleet begins with a tradition of trailer sailing, it's going to be easier to continue that vs. trying to get it started in a fleet of boats that are kept without trailers.

I bring this up because the local J/24 fleet has been "Bay bound" for so long that we're having some trouble "mounting up" the local sailors for the regional champtionship to be held next summer in Lake Tahoe.

Just food for thought...
-SteveH

[CazzaRanda]

Just a thought to the SF Bay guys.

I strongly suggest you consider buying boats on trailers.

Thanks for the suggestion BJ.

The owner listed as in Clerlake will likely trailer his boat between Clearlake and Point Richmond. Raf is also thinking about it after years of dealing with his 367, I guess... I'm also considering drysailing for myself, even if I'm not sure yet. I would like to see how complex is to hoist the boat in and out. I guess I'll check out how it works for the early owners in socal and decide. The part I like less is that I'll need a gas-sucker.

I spoke with the marina manager in point richmond, and they have a 3 ton hoist that would fit (they already haul a modified m32). Can you recommend any other place in the bay with dry storage available and a 3 ton lift?

by the way Mr. Clean: "sborone" (sborona) is in my names list...

thanks,
Cazza

[firesail36]

There are hoist in SF Bay area I have used. Brickyard Cove in Pt. Richmond is were I kept my 30 for a long time and now keep my Melges 24.. The hoist in Alameda near Svendsen's is good but a little crowed like Brickyard.. St. Francis and Encinal YC have capability but I have not used them. A real great hoist is at Stockton Sailing Club so at the end of a cruise or the Delta Ditch Race.
As for Clearlake, I will have to ramp launch. Thats why the boat will be mostly down in the bay - drysailed.
Pat

[bjmoose]

There are hoist in SF Bay area I have used. Brickyard Cove in Pt. Richmond is were I kept my 30 for a long time and now keep my Melges 24.. The hoist in Alameda near Svendsen's is good but a little crowed like Brickyard.. St. Francis and Encinal YC have capability but I have not used them. A real great hoist is at Stockton Sailing Club so at the end of a cruise or the Delta Ditch Race.
As for Clearlake, I will have to ramp launch. Thats why the boat will be mostly down in the bay - drysailed.
Pat

I think Alameda Marina is the largest dry storage area in the Bay.

SFYC has a larger hoist suitable for Etchells, does that imply it's a 3 tonner?

Westpoint Marina under construction in Redwood City will be getting a dry hoist, according to a sailing colleague of mine. Haven't confirmed with the owner myself.

For me, the only way a boat can be fast is if I wipe it down every time I go sailing. So I'm likely a dry-storage kinda guy if I find my way clear to buy an FT10 in a couple/few seasons.

[Clewless]

Just a thought to the SF Bay guys.

I strongly suggest you consider buying boats on trailers.

Sailing in the Bay is GREAT thing, but it's not the ONLY thing. A boat on a trailer has access to Santa Cruz, Monterey, Huntington Lake, Lake Tahoe. Not to mention racing to Santa Cruz with the Windjammers, then hauling out and driving back at 55mph, instead of a long uphill water delivery.

If a fleet begins with a tradition of trailer sailing, it's going to be easier to continue that vs. trying to get it started in a fleet of boats that are kept without trailers.

I bring this up because the local J/24 fleet has been "Bay bound" for so long that we're having some trouble "mounting up" the local sailors for the regional champtionship to be held next summer in Lake Tahoe.

Just food for thought...
-SteveH

I tend to agree and I know of at least three FTs in SD (out of seven) including mine that will be drysailed.
It takes extra half an hour each way to launch and retrieve but not having to deal with bottom paint = priceless.

Clew

[raff367]

For now I am looking into drysailing mainly to cut costs :)
But it's good to have the option to trailer (if only I had something to trail with :)

Also good to know that it will be possible to launch from Redwood City. Since I live in the South Bay it would be good to bring the boat down once in a while for a quicker sail.

Thanks for all the info!

-- Raffaele

[Puget Sound Ballast]

"The part I like less is that I'll need a gas-sucker."

Hey Cazza

Before going off and buying a "Ford F-two gallons to the mile" to tow your boat you might want to figure out if renting a truck for the times you need it is a better option. If you're only going to need to tow it a half dozen times a year, spending a couple hundred bucks at U-Haul for a rental pick up might be a better way to go (assuming of course you don't need it for your everyday launching).

If you really want to get detailed figure out what the Fordosaurus total cost is (payments, license, insurance etc) and when your spending more than that to rent a vehicle to move your boat it's time to buy (yes, my parents meet in accounting school, please don't hold that against me ;-)

Can't wait to see a couple of these at Whidbey Island Race Week.

Paul

[CazzaRanda]

"The part I like less is that I'll need a gas-sucker."

Hey Cazza

Before going off and buying a "Ford F-two gallons to the mile" to tow your boat you might want to figure out if renting a truck for the times you need it is a better option. If you're only going to need to tow it a half dozen times a year, spending a couple hundred bucks at U-Haul for a rental pick up might be a better way to go (assuming of course you don't need it for your everyday launching).

If you really want to get detailed figure out what the Fordosaurus total cost is (payments, license, insurance etc) and when your spending more than that to rent a vehicle to move your boat it's time to buy (yes, my parents meet in accounting school, please don't hold that against me ;-)

Can't wait to see a couple of these at Whidbey Island Race Week.

Paul

Thanks Paul.
I had checked at Hertz Truck, and in fact It may make sense (around a 100 bucks a day).

What I'm trying to figure out also is if I can use my Accord to tow the boat for the fifty flat yards from the dry storage to the hoist. The bigger towing package says 3000 pounds, what happen if I tow 4500 for a few yards?

Cazza

[nroose]

A while ago I was researching options for moving a trailer. I never bought one, but I did find various products that could move trailers around a parking lot and to and from a lift.

Here are a couple of links. You could also try to do a google search:

http://www.powerwheel-usa.com/

http://www.powermoverinc.net/

http://www.castlecra...ailer_mover.htm

This way, you could even bike down to the marina and not have to have a big truck just to move the boat over to the lift.

I have a feeling that you are going to destroy parts of your car if you use it to move the traler every weekend, but I could be wrong.

[Christian]

[quote name='michaeljameson' date='Feb 5 2006, 09:15 PM' post='616464']

I have a feeling that you are going to destroy parts of your car if you use it to move the traler every weekend, but I could be wrong.
[/quote]
Does anyone have an idea of how much the towing weight would be?? [/quote]
Probably around 6000 Lb

[murphy]

You would almost certainly distroy your car over time. Another option for the short trip is a $500.00 special that already has a tow hitch. Park it in the lot and just use it to move the boat. I have a friend who used that trick for years.

[SMP]

I have a feeling that you are going to destroy parts of your car if you use it to move the traler every weekend, but I could be wrong.
[/quote]

Not Wrong, just ask solosailor


Dry storage at Alameda Marina is excellent with a 3 ton hoist and plenty of draft at any tide.

[#19]

3 Ton hoist. Harbor master is a swell guy.

[raff367]

Very nice! I'll have to start thinking how to invest the savings from slip&diver.
(and I know that some of my crew would say "buy more beer" )

[CazzaRanda]

You would almost certainly distroy your car over time. Another option for the short trip is a $500.00 special that already has a tow hitch. Park it in the lot and just use it to move the boat. I have a friend who used that trick for years.

Just found out that brickyard cove marina has two of these little towing things... It should keep me off an suv for another while.

Cazza

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[bjmoose]

Dang, I notice that on the newly updated list there are 3 "south bay" owners

San Jose
Cupertino
Palo Alto

Anybody thinking of keeping their boat in Redwood City?

The concept of Wednesday night beercan races with 3 FT10s is a very cool one.

(EDIT: I live in San Jose)

[raff367]

I am the "Cupertino" one but I'll keep the boat in SF (also, I work in San Francisco so Wednesday nights in RWC are a little hard for me).

But we should definitively consider a South Bay expedition. SF to RWC and return ?

BTW, Mr. San Jose please speak up and give us your hull #, thanks!

[Ship o' Fools]

Mr. San Jose has Hull 81.

[raff367]

Would Mr. San Jose also post his/her name ? (Mr. Ship o' Fools would that be you ?)
Also, I am assuming you'll be part of the San Francisco fleet.

[Ship o' Fools]

Would Mr. San Jose also post his/her name ? (Mr. Ship o' Fools would that be you ?)
Also, I am assuming you'll be part of the San Francisco fleet.

Ship o' Fools, Mr. San Jose, or Marc - any one will do.
I was definitely planning on being part of the SF fleet. I have yet to sort out where I'll keep the boat, but we may have a major earthquake by the time my boat arrives so that San Jose has a deep water port. One design racing is the point of the purchase

[raff367]

I have updated the roster: [url=http://www.first367.org/roster/ft10.xqy]

When we get close to shipping time we should get together and figure out if we can get some fleet discount if we keep the boats together (i.e. for dry docking) and possibly for commisioning.

But yes, if there is a major earthquake we'll probably end up keeping the boats close to home (and maybe sleeping in them )

[bjmoose]

A new deepwater harbor is being dug right now in Redwood City. www.westpointmarina.com The info on that website's a little stale; there was an email update from Mark Sanders late last year that hasn't made it onto the website, but construction is proceeding.

A friend tells me there'll be a dry storage hoist, but I don't know if it'll be a 3 ton hoist or not.

I'm guessing it'll be done about the time the first FT10s start hitting US shores. ;-)

[CazzaRanda]

I'm arranging for commissioning of #15 at Svendsen's in Alameda. They're preparing a deal for the engine and there's a discount for a group buy (4).

If you're in the San Francisco bay area and are interested please PM or email me at info@ft10class.info.

I already have Raff, Firesail and Bob Perry's friend email but there are a few other perspective buyers on the bay that I haven't figured out yet.

Thanks,
Cazza

[CazzaRanda]

I've created a mailing list to keep Bay Area people updated on FT 10M delivery, and on what is going on with the FT 10M fleet in San Francisco.

if you want to subscribe send an email containing the word "subscribe" to SF-interest-request@FT10class.info or go to the registration page

We're up to 8 depositors now with hull #s in the 15,30ish,40ish,50ish,69,81 and two on 120ish+

#15, on board M/V# Evergreen Unica, is expected in Oakland by November 13th

Cazza

[Squid]

I have a feeling that you are going to destroy parts of your car if you use it to move the traler every weekend, but I could be wrong.
Does anyone have an idea of how much the towing weight would be??

Actually, with just a tiny bit of knowledge, you could easily tow it with an Accord and suffer no damage at all. Here is why. The issue has very little to do with total weight. The issue is more related to change of speed in time. So, don't start or stop quickly and all will be fine. If the car is a manual with a tall first gear; you'll end up wearing out the clutch if you are not so good at operating it with care. If the car is an automatic - then a torque converter is awesome for managing power under heavy load. Again, just start and stop VERY SLOWLY and you could tow that thing with a 40 year old VW bug - with no damage. Of course, when going more than a mile; none of us has the patience to be so gentle and destoying the car is inevitable. However, for 500 yards? - I'd go fot it. Besides, it's an Accord - you already need a new car.

[CazzaRanda]

you'll end up wearing out the clutch if you are not so good at operating it with care.

Woaah! I'm Italian... any allusion to the fact that I can't operate a clutch is a serious insult that only blood splilling can wash. Capisci? I'll let this one go, but watch your moves...

Cazza

(PS: I've got the impression that on this side of the ocean they really underestimate what torque can do. I remember when I was a kid Germans on the italian riviera were towing the impossible behind what then was considered a full size mercedes but with engines comparable to today's Civics)

[nroose]

Actually, with just a tiny bit of knowledge, you could easily tow it with an Accord and suffer no damage at all. Here is why. The issue has very little to do with total weight. The issue is more related to change of speed in time. So, don't start or stop quickly and all will be fine. If the car is a manual with a tall first gear; you'll end up wearing out the clutch if you are not so good at operating it with care. If the car is an automatic - then a torque converter is awesome for managing power under heavy load. Again, just start and stop VERY SLOWLY and you could tow that thing with a 40 year old VW bug - with no damage. Of course, when going more than a mile; none of us has the patience to be so gentle and destoying the car is inevitable. However, for 500 yards? - I'd go fot it. Besides, it's an Accord - you already need a new car.

The tongue weight over time will cause damage to your suspension. And I think that the total weight will put demands on the car that it is not designed to take, regardless of how slow you accelerate and brake, but perhaps it depends on the particular car and driver as to how much.

I did see one of those little trucks at brickyard cove a month or so ago. Pretty great to have those, I think. You could rollerblade down to the marina and launch your boat and you are off!

[Christian]

Woaah! I'm Italian... any allusion to the fact that I can't operate a clutch is a serious insult that only blood splilling can wash. Capisci? I'll let this one go, but watch your moves...

Cazza

(PS: I've got the impression that on this side of the ocean they really underestimate what torque can do. I remember when I was a kid Germans on the italian riviera were towing the impossible behind what then was considered a full size mercedes but with engines comparable to today's Civics)

Aren't you a guido? Did the insane penis evy of male Italian drivers make it through several genarations and across an ocean intact?

[CazzaRanda]

Aren't you a guido? Did the insane penis evy of male Italian drivers make it through several genarations and across an ocean intact?

well I crossed the pond less then 7 years ago. It took some time to loose driving patterns, though... For the first few years I've been one of the major benefactors of the local police. I think I learnt most of my english at traffic schools...

Now when I'm back home it takes me 2-3 days to re-adjust to the adrenaline required to drive decent speeds (at least 80-90 Kph in heavy urban traffic and twice that speed in 2 lanes freeways).

Cazza

[Christian]

well I crossed the pond less then 7 years ago. It took some time to loose driving patterns, though... For the first few years I've been one of the major benefactors of the local police. I think I learnt most of my english at traffic schools...

Now when I'm back home it takes me 2-3 days to re-adjust to the adrenaline required to drive decent speeds (at least 80-90 Kph in heavy urban traffic and twice that speed in 2 lanes freeways).

Cazza

Know what you mean - having spent a fair amount of time in Italy driving motorcycles through insane traffic, I am aware of the thrill it brings. Just don't ever try driving like that in the US or you are going to end up in the morgue when some doozy pulls out in front of you just because he can.............at 20 mph. God I miss those days of reeling down the strip at over 200!

[Squid]

The tongue weight over time will cause damage to your suspension.

Nonsense. You can bottom out the suspension and drive for a week without damage. You can't go over a bump, particularly fast, without damaging suspension.

Besides all that; you can adjust the tongue weight to one ounce if it makes you or your suspension feel better. Shift the boat back a bit.

If you are having further difficulties with load, ask this guy - he aint afraid of pulling a big load with a light rig:


Hey Cazza, I live on the french riviera. Those guys will put 10X load on a tiny shitty truck and do just fine. They just go real slow.
I've seen wops in Ventimiglia who could stand to use a clutch a little more - those guys drive like they are mad.

[CazzaRanda]

Got Sails!

Cazza

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[DA-WOODY]

Thanks Paul.
I had checked at Hertz Truck, and in fact It may make sense (around a 100 bucks a day).

What I'm trying to figure out also is if I can use my Accord to tow the boat for the fifty flat yards from the dry storage to the hoist. The bigger towing package says 3000 pounds, what happen if I tow 4500 for a few yards?

Cazza

Have no fear / Go for it !!!! ( Really )

If you are rated for 3,000 lbs in the real world "Speeds of 55 and hill up and down"

You'll be fine as a Yard Dog

BUT Go SLLLOOOOOOWWWWW

Like 5mph as you should around a yard

If your are to stay in the yard exclusivly ( Not down the block at 35mph )

move the center of gravity "Fwd" a bit to reduce the load on the htch

remeber to move it back for the open road

Trust me on this one

[bjmoose]

If your are to stay in the yard exclusivly ( Not down the block at 35mph )

move the center of gravity "Fwd" a bit to reduce the load on the htch

remeber to move it back for the open road

Trust me on this one

I think DA-WOODY meant to say that if you're just using your trailer around the yard, you could move the center of gravity AFT a bit to reduce the tongue weight and load on the hitch. That also makes it easier to crank the tongue up and down with the wheel jack.

But doing so is BAD for trailerability on the open road. Weight forward, and heavy tongue weight (within reason) leads to steady tracking on the road. Weight aft leads to "hobby-horsing." I tow my J/24 to 8-10 regattas a year, so I know whereof I speak about towing heavy sailboats.

Keep in mind that if you reduce tongue weight by positioning the boat aft on the trailer, then when it's NOT hooked up to the car, two guys standing on the transom can be enough to cause the whole thing to TIP AFT wildly, suddenly, and out of control. (No, I haven't done this, fortunately.)

[DA-WOODY]

I think DA-WOODY meant to say that if you're just using your trailer around the yard, you could move the center of gravity AFT a bit to reduce the tongue weight and load on the hitch. That also makes it easier to crank the tongue up and down with the wheel jack.

But doing so is BAD for trailerability on the open road. Weight forward, and heavy tongue weight (within reason) leads to steady tracking on the road. Weight aft leads to "hobby-horsing." I tow my J/24 to 8-10 regattas a year, so I know whereof I speak about towing heavy sailboats.

Keep in mind that if you reduce tongue weight by positioning the boat aft on the trailer, then when it's NOT hooked up to the car, two guys standing on the transom can be enough to cause the whole thing to TIP AFT wildly, suddenly, and out of control. (No, I haven't done this, fortunately.)

"FWD"

Test it with a Beer can and a pen ( teeder todder )

When you see that I'm correct

reward your self with the beer ( catch on while it's cold )

Otherwise "we" are correct !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[DA-WOODY]

Ok center of gravity was a bad term to use

Let's say move the axles FWD on trailer

To shift more of the load to the rear of trailer

Thus lessening the tongue weight

You will still need some weight on the hitch

And make sure the ball is fastened securely

AVOID ALL BUMPS + POTHOLES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remember - DO NOT take on road till you put trailer back as designed

And then Only pull with something OVER-RATED for the GVW

Momentum is like a bad current

If you can't overcome it, It WILL Overcome you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No Boat is Self-Righting on the road !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bjmoose]

Ok center of gravity was a bad term to use

Let's say move the axles FWD on trailer

Ah, that would be the center of BALANCE. I was talking about shifting the BOAT aft (CG) , you were talking about shifting the AXLES forward (CB).

Both moves have the same net effect. I knew we were really in agreement.

EDIT reversed terms so as not to be stupid. OOPS.

[DA-WOODY]

Ok center of gravity was a bad term to use

Let's say move the axles FWD on trailer

you were talking about shifting the AXLES aft (CB).

I knew we were really in agreement.

Move those thingies with the tires "FWD"


OMG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I Give Up !

[austin1972]

This thread is turning into a classic.

Who's on first?

[CazzaRanda]

For the peace of mind of people in this thread, I'm buying a towing vehicle, up to 6,000#. Thanks for the support everybody...


Cazza

[GybeSet®]

to move axles to a point where they have to be subsequently moved for a roadtrip ain't too easy?

2x 2 sets of suspension take-offs on the trailer frame ??

would a super-size pneumatic dolly wheel negate the need for this ?

[miltwempley]

For the peace of mind of people in this thread, I'm buying a towing vehicle, up to 6,000#. Thanks for the support everybody...


Cazza

I'm of the opinion that 6,000# is the minimum. By the time you add boat, trailer and boat related shit you're there. You need to account for passengers, too which aren't in that number. I know there are a group (you know who you are Clew ) of people that like the "euro model" of hitching it up to a Civic, but that's not for me. Maybe cuz I'm in the hilly PNW...

[DA-WOODY]

Get something rated at 10,000 lbs or More !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rolling along can be done by hand with the Jack/wheel

Controlling it when you got to do something un-natural like

STOPING - NOW !! ov Being in the Other lane - NOW

Takes alot more that you need the rest of the time

[CazzaRanda]

I'm of the opinion that 6,000# is the minimum. By the time you add boat, trailer and boat related shit you're there. You need to account for passengers, too which aren't in that number. I know there are a group (you know who you are Clew ) of people that like the "euro model" of hitching it up to a Civic, but that's not for me. Maybe cuz I'm in the hilly PNW...

Oh, I'm definitely in the euro-trash group. I'm buying the same horse Clew has... If needed I'll change my name to CazzaFrizione... oops, the ride has no clutch... I guess it doesn't matter.

Cayenne will cost way more then the boat. I'd rather buy two Tigers, two telephone poles and make the hell of a Perry-designed racing catamaran...

Cazza

[Bob Perry]

Cazza: the first Seattle boat is here and out of the box. It looks quite good. It's the first finished boat I have seen. It came through shipping just fine. There are a couple of minor scratches on the spar but they can be easily buffed out. The keel and kelp cutter look fine. The hole to remove the kelp cutter blade is finished a bit ratty but that can be cleaned up. The boat was in the slings and hanging close to the water so I could not get a good view of the bottom of the boat. Scott the owner is very happy. Beaming to be sure. Carl Buchan and his wife will be sailing with him on his first race. That should speed up the learning curve and provide some very educated opinions on the boat's performance. This is one of those days I have been looking forward to for a long time.

[CazzaRanda]

Cazza: the first Seattle boat is here and out of the box. It looks quite good. It's the first finished boat I have seen. It came through shipping just fine. There are a couple of minor scratches on the spar but they can be easily buffed out. The keel and kelp cutter look fine. The hole to remove the kelp cutter blade is finished a bit ratty but that can be cleaned up. The boat was in the slings and hanging close to the water so I could not get a good view of the bottom of the boat. Scott the owner is very happy. Beaming to be sure. Carl Buchan and his wife will be sailing with him on his first race. That should speed up the learning curve and provide some very educated opinions on the boat's performance. This is one of those days I have been looking forward to for a long time.

This is great news Bob! Mine will arrive monday and clear custom in the following days. We'll hold unpacking until the 28th, since everybody at the yard will be at home eating turkey... I'll keep you posted.


Cazza

[Clewless]

I talked to Alex at ABT about setting up the boat to sit very low. It is a really nice package to tow with the low CG, great stability at legal speeds. If you choose the optional disc brake on 2nd axle, the trailer will stop very well.

Yes, it will be nice to tow it with a dually but I do not want to drive that thing around the rest of the year. My Pathfinder is a good compromise -- with truck frame for durability, 270 HP V6 plenty of low end grunt, standard 6000lb hitch set-up -- and the whole setup is already well proven in LA traffic where the brakes are well tested. Small enough to move around the dry sail lot and 22 MPG hiway (~15 MPG while towing).

Rightfully so it would not be sufficient if you are in hilly areas but more than capable in flatter areas. One would not be able to tell the difference towing with the Pathy vs a v8 Landcruiser class SUV. As a side note, I would not recommend a Nissan Armada / Titan -- it has nasty brake issues.

Now if I were doing it Eurostyle, it would be a diesel Passat or E320 CDI wagon.....

Clew

[nemesis]

For what it is worth... the 3/4 ton 2wd yukon xl is the best tow bus/regatta support I've ever used. Pulls the M30 at 70 down the road and seats the whole team if we need it. I've been through 4 different cars for towing a bunch of different boats and this is the hands down best.

[CazzaRanda]

Round-trip to LA yesterday, and we've got a ride now!

This is the 27 feet version, it's quite a long rig... ABT did an amazing job, we have the best trailer in the parking lot!

Cazza

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[sam_crocker]

Cazza: the first Seattle boat is here and out of the box. It looks quite good.......
Carl Buchan and his wife will be sailing with him on his first race. That should speed up the learning curve and provide some very educated opinions on the boat's performance. This is one of those days I have been looking forward to for a long time.

Oh no, not Carl Buchan. The PHRF rating is going to suck now. Better to put some hack like me on the boat for the first year to get a decent one

[miltwempley]

Oh no, not Carl Buchan. The PHRF rating is going to suck now. Better to put some hack like me on the boat for the first year to get a decent one

Yeah, nothing like stacking the deck with an Olympic Gold medalist to fuck up a PHRF rating! [kidding -- we're all going to benefit from the considerable experience of putting rock stars on rock on]

[CazzaRanda]

Here it is... hull #15 on board Cargo Ship Hatsu Smart is approaching the shipping channel headed to San Francisco Bay.

Real Time

Welcome home "Cento Miglia",
Cazza

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[foredeckhell]

saw the sails at doyle today. helped out a bit on the reef. hope i can get a ride! :-P congrats cazza

[skint-again]

saw the sails at doyle today. helped out a bit on the reef. hope i can get a ride! :-P congrats cazza

The reef? I thought this was a racing boat

Good luck with it Cazza

[nroose]

When in doubt....


































Reefer.

[CazzaRanda]

saw the sails at doyle today. helped out a bit on the reef. hope i can get a ride! :-P congrats cazza

Sure, tag along with Bill when we'll do the sail test. We'll schedule a day as soon as the boat is commissioned.

Cazza

[Clewless]

2005 Pathfinder has a truck frame, 270 HP and tows 6000lbs nicely.

[merlin89]

Hey mikey, the sails at doyle, what material are they? Any way I could get a lift as well? I can make sure foredeckhell does not talk too much.
buona serra.

[NoStrings]

Well, the SFBay's first FT10 was just hatched over at Svendsens. Damn nice looking boat.

[tama_manu]

Congratulations Cazza! (your ship has come in)

[CazzaRanda]

Christmas came early this year in San Francisco... Two very happy kids have received their biggest xmas box ever!

Thanks to Bob, Ben, Brian, Bill and all the others that made this dream possible.

Cazza

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[NorCalHater]

Hey mikey, the sails at doyle, what material are they? Any way I could get a lift as well? I can make sure foredeckhell does not talk too much.
buona serra.

The Main is made out of Dacron.

The Jib is made out of Contender Maxx Carbon/Kevlar

The Spinnaker is .75oz nylon.

[Bob Perry]

Cazza:
the pleasure was all mine. I know without a doubt you are going to have a lot of fun sailing this boat.

[foredeckhell]

congrats cazza! saw the boat at svens yesterday! looks sharp

[CazzaRanda]

Centomiglia got splashed today! Mast is up, last details will be finished tomorrow and she'll be ready to be delivered from alameda to point richmond saturday... by my boat partner, since I'll be gone tomorrow

I'll be back the 26th and hope I'll sail a couple of times between then and the new year. My crew will be gone for the holidays, so if you want to go out for a spin PM me.

Cazza

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[Bulga Naba]

[Cazza -

Is that Proseccp I see splashed all over the deck?

I bet there is one (or a few) happy Italians on the Bay tonight.

Congrats

Phillip

[Clewless]

Centomiglia got splashed today! Mast is up, last details will be finished tomorrow and she'll be ready to be delivered from alameda to point richmond saturday... by my boat partner, since I'll be gone tomorrow

I'll be back the 26th and hope I'll sail a couple of times between then and the new year. My crew will be gone for the holidays, so if you want to go out for a spin PM me.

Cazza

Confirms that you're not a nut case after all.... When we splashed #8, we were rigging her up in the dark thinking that we'd go for a sail. Unfortunately (actually fortunately), there is no wind here after 7pm.... so we went to Fiddler's instead.

Congrats!

Clew

[d'ranger]

I had a chance to look at Cazza's FT on Wednesday - no mast yet and the yard was still rigging it. Thanks to Cazza and Mr. S for letting me crawl around the boat. First impression was - it looks fast and distinctive - not just one more cookie cutter boat on the water.

After following this forum since it started I really looked for all the things that people complained about and my impression is the boat is well designed and made. Great cockpit - the footrests were much better than the pictures show. I have no experience with kelp or bombay doors so can't offer anything there. The no teak is a good thing and looks like lots of thought went into making it relatively low maintenance. Fit and finish looked good, the layout below looks very functional and easy to keep clean.

If I had to compare it to something, the FT reminds of when the Camaro and Firebird were really bad ass machines delivering 98% of the performance of the Vette at a fraction of the price. If status and "coolness" is your thing then this boat may not be for you but if you want to go fast for something less than the price of a house this should really fill the bill. The boat will be a handful in SF and am looking forward to my next trip and a ride. Thanks again Cazza and go get em.

note: after reading this it sounds like marketing hype, but that is not my gig.

[Bob Perry]

d'ranger: thanks for the help with the marketing. I look forward to your comments after you get a chance to sail on it.

[CazzaRanda]

Interfleet rendez-vous friday: Hawaii fleet and San Francisco fleet met for a warming up session off Lahaina... high 80s, light wind and cold beers. Good times.

Thanks to Holokai for hosting the event...


Cazza

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[Guitar]

Cazza,
Was down at Pt. Richmond working on my boat and saw your boat, knew what it was before I even got close. Fast looking and beautiful.

I noticed a broken line of grooves in the hull, just below the waterline, port side looked fresh while the starboard side looked like there was a coat of gelcoat over them.

What's up with that?

If you ever need crew, please PM me.

Guitar

[EWS]

I believe they are tick marks to mark the waterline for bottom paint application. Many boat manufacturers do this to make locating the waterline easier.

[Guitar]

Thought that might be the case but nasty way to do it. Those were deep grooves.

[CazzaRanda]

My first sail on Centomiglia today!
We stopped by to say hi to the Gate, flew the kite and enjoyed a great winter day on the water. Thanks to Murphy and Foredeckhell, what a great crew...

I'm as high as one can be without using drugs (well, the beer might have helped...).

Cazza

EDIT: and once back at the dock, a great news on my cell: a new depositor in San Fran. He'll be out sailing with us tomorrow. Good times.

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[foredeckhell]

My first sail on Centomiglia today!
We stopped by to say hi to the Gate, flew the kite and enjoyed a great winter day on the water. Thanks to Murphy and Foredeckhell, what a great crew...

I'm as high as one can be without using drugs (well, the beer might have helped...).

Cazza

EDIT: and once back at the dock, a great news on my cell: a new depositor in San Fran. He'll be out sailing with us tomorrow. Good times.

had an awsome time caza, ill be more then willing to go out on centomiglia again!

cheers

[murphy]

My first sail on Centomiglia today!
We stopped by to say hi to the Gate, flew the kite and enjoyed a great winter day on the water. Thanks to Murphy and Foredeckhell, what a great crew...

I'm as high as one can be without using drugs (well, the beer might have helped...).

Cazza

EDIT: and once back at the dock, a great news on my cell: a new depositor in San Fran. He'll be out sailing with us tomorrow. Good times.

Cazza, Thank you for the opportunity to join you for your first sail on Centomiglia today. I had a great time. I will definately give you a call next time I'm in the area.
For those of you who haven't had the chance to catch a ride I highly reccomend it! You will be pleasantly surprised. The boat is beautifully behaved (thanks Bob). We had typical winter bay winds (read light). The highest I think we saw was 12 apparent. She definately responds to proper sail and weight trim.
Thanks again

[CazzaRanda]

Look Mom, no men on the bow...

Cazza

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[CazzaRanda]

Richmond Police got a few calls for this UFO flying above brickyard cove this afternoon...

Cazza

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[H20]

Is that mud or did you find the bottom? I hope mud. Long way down huh?

[Christian]

Look Mom, no men on the bow...

Cazza

Wow - that angle of the strop looks like the keel edges are going to have a rough life. This is not the proper way to lift a boat. Also looks like you don't have any strops going from the hook to the keel case (to take the load from the hull weight) and you are letting the keel bulb against the hull take the load (from the hull). This is the way I do it on my Viper, which was specifically designed for it. According to Ben the FT is decidedly NOT. Am also unsure if the keel and the keel lift attachment point was designed/built for taking the entire load (hull+keel)? Just don't want you to ruin your baby.........

[Capt'n Hindgrinder]

Is that a couple of water jugs on the bow, or a sail bag? How much water?

My guess would be 4 5gal jugs, close to 166lbs, but the lines led aft from the hoist hook look pretty loaded.

Cazza, whah happen to the keel bulb?

Murphy, isn't it a sweet ride?

Ours is only a few weeks away, owners goin' to get a very cool paint job to the hull before ever splashin' her,,,

If you look real close at MichaelJameson's avatar you'll see what it's going to be.

Too bad they don't come from the factory painted that way, but I imagine the cost would choke the penny pincher's!

[#19]

Looks like East Bay Mud to me. Standard fare for that side of the bay. Nothing that a hose can't take care of.

[Clewless]

Wow - that angle of the strop looks like the keel edges are going to have a rough life. This is not the proper way to lift a boat. Also looks like you don't have any strops going from the hook to the keel case (to take the load from the hull weight) and you are letting the keel bulb against the hull take the load (from the hull). This is the way I do it on my Viper, which was specifically designed for it. According to Ben the FT is decidedly NOT. Am also unsure if the keel and the keel lift attachment point was designed/built for taking the entire load (hull+keel)? Just don't want you to ruin your baby.........

C,
Not an issue. This is the factory recommended lifting method. I was told that Cazza has spacers (Ikea cutting board) fitted inside to protect the leading edge. The trailing edge is not involved since the keel stub meets the cabin top aperture first.

I have done about ten sorties (20 lifts...up & down) and no issues with keel bulb or hull bottom. Both surfaces are pretty much flat per BBBB (well if not.. they are flat now!! ). Most of my keel chips were from the shipping instead.

Personally, I'd like a slightly longer strop but looks like Cazza has a tight fit thru the fence.

Boy, I need to pick up a few jerry cans.... it's costing me too many beers to feed the bow guy to keep him there while we lift!

Clew

[Christian]

C,
Not an issue. This is the factory recommended lifting method. I was told that Cazza has spacers (Ikea cutting board) fitted inside to protect the leading edge. The trailing edge is not involved since the keel stub meets the cabin top aperture first.

I have done about ten sorties (20 lifts...up & down) and no issues with keel bulb or hull bottom. Both surfaces are pretty much flat per BBBB (well if not.. they are flat now!! ). Most of my keel chips were from the shipping instead.

Personally, I'd like a slightly longer strop but looks like Cazza has a tight fit thru the fence.

Boy, I need to pick up a few jerry cans.... it's costing me too many beers to feed the bow guy to keep him there while we lift!

Clew

Well that's quite a change - a good one as it makes life easier. Just funny that everyone protested (including uncle Bob) when I suggested this about a year ago............

[CazzaRanda]

yep, we clear the fucking fence by 4 inches... I was planning to ram the fence with my partner's SUV tonite and make enough room to lower the boat by 3 feet... anybody has a chainsaw handy in brickyard cove?

We have found that 3x26 liter of water (~ 80 kilos) balance the boat nicely. Also we move heavy stuff in the vbert - sails, monster tripod on its ski-bag and we put the "corpse" on the foredeck (the 7 feet rudder blade that was dancing around the parking lot the other nite).

Tonite we established another personal record: 1 hour from docking to trailer (including rolling sails and secure everything below). It is a 150% improvement from the first hoist. I think we can shave that down to half an hour when the team is well tuned. An anarchist came along to help and did a good job at the hoist control. I did a nice wheelie with the dolly getting down the slide of the hoisting area. Then I decided to get more cozy with my 240 pounds crew B. and I wouldn't let him step off the dolly until boat was parked.

The dark spot on the keel is soft mud: in this low tide the hoisting area is a little more then 7 feet. Shouldn't be a problem on the rest of the year. We ran aground tonite entering the harbor trying to shortcut. We were pulled over by a couple of good samaritans, and then escorted into the harbor by the protector of the RYC whose skipper was praising the FT10 virtues to his mate. Very nice of them, but we didn't needed further help.

Another nice day on the water, it's nice to pull along other boats and just scream past them letting wondering what the hell of a boat is that? Were tempted by a single handled 105 (trimmed much better then us), but we let him go this time... We put up a good show for the ferry sailing along with them for a good ten minutes and then trying to ride their wake. Everybody was waving at us. I guess they'll have a few nice shots of the FT10 in japan next week.

My jaws is hurting by two days of grinning. Good times.
Cazza

[Clewless]

I guess they actually listened to you....for once!

Clew

[CazzaRanda]

An anarchist was suggesting to replace the jib sheets used to pull the hoisting point aft with a couple of tie down straps (the yellow thing that secure cargos on truck). How much working load limit they should be able to resist?

I think the thin one inch wide are around a thousand pounds, and the big yellow I have to secure the boat on trailer is 3000.

What do you think?

Thanks
Cazza

[akaGP]

The angle of the SS back stay tang, which is mounted on and at the same angle as the transom, is not conducive for hook up to the strap at the angle to the lifting point.

Why not hang the jerry cans full of water at the end of the extended sprit for maximum moment arm?

[Christian]

I don't understand the rationale for needing TWO aft lines. Its not like the boat is going to tip over sideways. Just take one 1-1/2" strap back to the backstay tang, which has to be the strongest piece of hardware back there anyhow.

Another idea off the top of my head... HANG the plastic jerry cans from the bow pulpit. No chance of them falling over (or even off !) while aloft, and easier to get to when the boat is on the trailer.

The advantage of two aft straps become apparent when it's blowing stink on the beam..................

[CazzaRanda]

The angle of the SS back stay tang, which is mounted on and at the same angle as the transom, is not conducive for hook up to the strap at the angle to the lifting point.

Why not hang the jerry cans full of water at the end of the extended sprit for maximum moment arm?

agree with the backstay tang. 3 lines also helps if the load if the boat is not perfectly balanced in the beam direction (and normally isn't because door for the vberth is in the starboard side and one thend to pile more crap at the door.

Sprit extended adds another 7 feet to the rig length. You could use one less can probably, but I guess everything will be more rolly with cans hanging. If somebody had some spare depleted plutonium, one could probably make a nice and tight cap for the sprit that would replace the water with less volume...

In this way it works quite nicely: we leave the cans on the bow when the boat is on trailer, so we're ready for next splash. Each can is 26 kilos (50 pound) and it's handled nicely by a large crew. Only thing that makes me nervous is sheet strength.



Cazza

[aloft]

... An anarchist came along to help and did a good job at the hoist control ...

And taught us some new hand signals for managing heavy loads safely. Thanks, Bob!



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[aloft]

... Only thing that makes me nervous is sheet strength ...

Here's the worrisome setup

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