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#1 myusername

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 01:16 AM

Check out this -> http://www.t750.pl/f...wtopic.php?t=77

Whaddya think? I´d say that may evolve to sumthing... B)

#2 Heaven can wait

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 04:00 AM

Feck that's $41,792.90 AUD and $30,541.00 AUD respectively.

Geeze that's cheap, where's mine.

Does it still count if you have a Sponsored boat and live in Australia?

#3 jermak

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 05:59 PM

Go http://t750.pl/forum/viewforum.php?f=8for details or if you have any particular questions - this is a Forum for all of you who can't speak our language yet B) B)

#4 The Winner

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 07:25 PM

Is there a web site or pictures somewhere

#5 plaanaa

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Posted 12 January 2006 - 07:47 PM

Well, Jermak, I think you´ve done it! Seems pretty nice...maybe that´s the class Finland has been waiting for... ;)

Good luck guys, I´ll be watching how things go :)

#6 jermak

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 05:00 AM

Plaanaa, thanks for a good word. Hope we will create this T750 OD together.
Guys, pictures are on www.t750.pl - we are finishing with plugs now. By the end of this month we're planning to start working on the moulds and the first boat to go into the moulds in the second half of February. We will keep posting pictures and will welcome any comments, ideas, tuning...We would love to hear from T750 owners. Do anyone know owners of T750's???
Go on http://t750.pl/forum/viewforum.php?f=8 for English version of our Forum and be our partner to create the T750 OD Class.

#7 plaanaa

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 05:24 AM

Plaanaa, thanks for a good word. Hope we will create this T750 OD together.



;) Sent you some PM...

#8 peejay

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 06:43 AM

Nice job jermak.
This could be a boat that gets things going in Europe and Scandinavia. We need it.
All the best wishes for a great success.

#9 GybeSet®

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 06:48 AM

are you guys in touch with the .cz thompson750 ppl ?

or a they a part of this already ??

is czech far ?

#10 peejay

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 07:16 AM

is czech far ?

Yep, for you Aussie's I would say it's quite far.
But within Europe: no. It's next door to Poland.

#11 jermak

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 07:18 AM

GybeSet,
if you mean these guys who'd built already a few boats the answer is NO[b].
But the whole thing is under close supervision and sharp control eye of European Tboat Rep - he is a CZ guy.
APART FROM THIS FRIENDLY BUT SERIOUS CONTROL WE ARE INDEPENDENT.

"is czech far ?" - WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THIS?

#12 Heaven can wait

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 09:46 AM

Jermak,

I'd say the distance the Czech fella's are from you.

Where in Poland are you building the T750's, The Balkans, The Baltic, The South East, where are you going to Race Them.

Wish you guys the very best by the way, hope it takes off for you.



Almost forgot CUTTER here on SBA has a T750, and he can certainly point you in the right direction on anything to do with the T750.

#13 DAZMAN

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 11:41 AM

There are 2 T750's here in Western Australia. I think one of them has a set of moulds. Will try and speak to one of them, and get them onto here if possible.

#14 jermak

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 12:58 PM

We are from all over the country. The hulls will be built in the centre of the country - near Warsaw. They will be fitted in North West of the country - my place. Off-shore delivery (if any) may be arrnged from GDYNIA HARBOUR. Two boats fit into one 40' container - even masts can go inside!!!
Dazman, it would be graet to be able to talk to experienced t750 owners. Try to get them here.
Guys, many thanks for such a nice response. B) B)

#15 dogwatch

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 01:56 PM

Can anyone indicate a rough IRC or SBR rating? I'm just trying to get an idea how fast it is around a course.

#16 GybeSet®

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 02:50 PM

in UK terms not sure what to compare it with as what you have there ( as quick ), It would finish 2nd to the t830 that was at cowes week. 5 to 8% slower.

in pure TCF terms (regardless of system - forget sbr&irc) a Me24 in AUS is .870 and a AUS/NZ-rigged t750 is .925, on occasion tho it finishes ahead of a T8r @ 0.960.
approx Mumm30 speed (ball park)

Also I don't think we have enough data to confirm that the Me24 can actually sail up to the .870 figure. Any Vics confirm this ?

which config the euro 750 ? with the clip-ons ( 3mtr W instead of 2.5mtr)

#17 GybeSet®

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 04:45 PM

GybeSet,
if you mean these guys who'd built already a few boats the answer is NO[b].
But the whole thing is under close supervision and sharp control eye of European Tboat Rep - he is a CZ guy.
APART FROM THIS FRIENDLY BUT SERIOUS CONTROL WE ARE INDEPENDENT.

"is czech far ?" - WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THIS?


independance is great !!

no good implying with the language translation huh? i meant JM.

'is it far' meaning is it 'not too big a distance'

Good luck with the fleet building !

#18 dogwatch

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 05:53 PM

in pure TCF terms (regardless of system - forget sbr&irc) a Me24 in AUS is .870 and a AUS/NZ-rigged t750 is .925, on occasion tho it finishes ahead of a T8r @ 0.960.


Something like IRC 1.050 - 1.060 then, very roughly. This is a seriously quick boat for the money in that case.

#19 GybeSet®

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 06:30 PM

well mumm @ 1.085 now, so yes around 1.060 speed (ACTUAL *) comparison !, mebbe even more !!

thats the crazy thing tho Dogwatch, IRC (or sbr relatively) would slam it numerically WAY above that !! Thats why i didn't quote you back an irc estimate , as two interpretations 1. actual (* speed), and 2. actual (what rorc would print on cert)

did you see or read how the 830 went there, well the designs are VERY similar in concept and execution, the t750 is considered by many to be the sweet spot in the range 'speedwise'.

Like it can 'gap' the t7's, but the 8's don't get away much and cannot have an ordinary day or caught.

if you search here on SA for 'cutter' you will find some evidence of the results of the most successful 750 'mustard cutter'

.

#20 206

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 08:01 PM

T750 for sale in NZ for $33,000NZ, that's a pretty good price, too, but 1989? Is the NZ 750 old and tired, or still quick?

#21 wal'

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 09:30 PM

T750 for sale in NZ for $33,000NZ, that's a pretty good price, too, but 1989? Is the NZ 750 old and tired, or still quick?


If the boat is 'Atomic' it's a good boat, parked at westhaven marina in Auckland. The boat features in some of the advertising. Look for the red 'chute.

#22 Michal (palacz) Palasz

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Posted 13 January 2006 - 11:30 PM

Now for those interested in polish t750. Here's how the CNC moulded model looked some days ago. And by now it's probably nearly finished B)
Posted Image
Won't take long till the first boat hits the water.

#23 pep

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    Still like the monohulls, maybe...

Posted 14 January 2006 - 10:04 PM

COOL program.

And a boat I could actually probably afford within the foreseable future.
If you can indeed put it on the market for 26k, you beat ALL other sportboats in the European market both on PRICE and on PERFORMANCE! Excellent.
Scary for melges, bendytoy, MaxFun, J80, Hunter707, Cork1720 etcetera.
A boat that laps them, and is cheaper.

#24 plaanaa

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Posted 15 January 2006 - 01:15 AM

Well, I think pep said it all. ;)

Be sure you can do some decent marketing and nothing can stop you.

I seriously do hope that some boat like this one would find it´s way up here too.

How about it peejay? Maybe it´s time for Scandinavia to have a go?

#25 jermak

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Posted 15 January 2006 - 02:52 AM

Gents, the whole thing is more about creating the strong T750 fleet and Association than about the money.
Association which is strong enough not to have to beg sponsors for the money to organize any regatta. Association which is able to help its members to buy the boat etc.
We had here in Poland nice fleet of 730 - national class and decided to go for OD. And we f*#d up badly the whole idea because some people became a bit too greedy, we couldn't make decisions and so on, so on...
I really believe that together we can do it with T750 and hope that this season will be the first one for T750 OD European Cup.

#26 jeff E of the GWN

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Posted 15 January 2006 - 04:07 AM

whats it rate??

#27 jermak

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Posted 15 January 2006 - 05:15 AM

whats it rate??

Sorry, I am just thick dumb Polish...can't get your question :blink: :blink:

#28 Michal (palacz) Palasz

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 07:48 AM

As for the rate, the answer is "depends on the rating system" :P

As Jermak wrote somewere above, we're setting up a OD class rather than wish to race rated in the PHRF, IMS or QWERTY :D

Yes, people do race it in the Euro League by ORC and other ratings in Australia so there are some boats measured to ratings. But I don't know the exact data. One's for sure, it's a damn fast boat and here in Europe Michael Kramer sailing the "Rocking Girl" proved it winning the whole season in Berlin even though his Yardstick rating was rather unfavourable.

#29 celphtaught

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Posted 16 January 2006 - 11:31 PM

ive heard this is a mad fast boat. good luck with creating a fleet! any idea on whether any of those moulds will make it over to the states?

#30 GybeSet®

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 01:31 AM

Celph, the jig for a 'male build' 750 may still exist in NCaro.

JayP built one, email him !

a phrf number is 75 phrf (however 'right' that may be - benchmark to a me24 @ 99 ; js9000 mkI @ 75 )

#31 plaanaa

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 01:56 AM

As for the rate, the answer is "depends on the rating system" :P

I´ve heard that it´s IMS-measured too, GPH 609,7 - this is totally unofficial. You could compare with Melges 24 - GPH 618,9. And IMS is (as everyone remembers) built so, smaller figures - faster boat.
I believe that even T680 would be faster than M24. Fast boats - nice price. I love it.

#32 Bad Andy

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 02:06 AM

US price? and is there an english site?

#33 GybeSet®

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Posted 17 January 2006 - 02:14 AM

www.tboat.com

they have home-build plans, as the north kalakaki one was

import one ? 26k euros, or 2nd hand from antipodes

#34 Speng

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 03:12 AM

Those molds look smooth as a baby's posterior. For Euro 26K you could ship them over to the US and still clean up relative to the Melges 24s and similar. Plus the CNC molds will make for very clean repeatable construction.

#35 jermak

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 05:03 AM

Those molds look smooth as a baby's posterior. For Euro 26K you could ship them over to the US and still clean up relative to the Melges 24s and similar. Plus the CNC molds will make for very clean repeatable construction.

The CNC idea was exactly for what you are saying - repeateble boats, no matter which mould the boat comes from. You never know, if TBOAT = Steve will wish to give us a green light for it we may send them across to your side of the pond. Next pictures soon.

#36 Speng

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Posted 18 January 2006 - 04:43 PM

Er... why wouldn't he? Does he have a dealer here? If so the dude isn't doing shit. The 650, 750 and 830 would rule here especially at the prices you guys are talking about. Lots of good quality composite people in Eastern Europe from aircraft industry.

People need to stop making Polish jokes, there's more than just sausage over there :D

#37 GoHardGetWet

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 05:31 AM

Jermak,

Creating a OD fleet within europe is all well and good but its a big place and we want a boat thet we can travel to OD competitions in and also compete at home with. You need to get an idea of the IRC rating if you want to sell it in the UK or Ireland, people just wont take the risk. I'd buy one tomorow if I knew what fleet I'll be competing in, what boats have similar IRC and figured I'd be competitive. I know you would sell lots of them to Irish racers if it has a fair rating.

The price is spot on, the boat looks the part, from what I've read shes fast and furious but there is no way I could face buying a OD boat and only racing in a european championship once a year and spending the rest of the year losing races cause she just not competitive under IRC at home.

Why dont you send the specs to a sailing authority and get them to give you an estimated IRC for marketing purposes? Is this possible? if not get someone who used to work as a measurer and ask them?

Hope it does work out and the boat is competitive cause I want one!! :)

#38 Cutter

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Posted 19 January 2006 - 10:42 AM

i might be a bit bias, but our 750 has proven time again that they are tough boats that really enjoy being muscelled around the course, they respond well to active crewing, not quite as quick reaching as the new breed, but there isn't much they can't hang onto upwind in most breezes, given their flair and beam(what beam are the polish boats being built at, bulb weight, uncrewed displacement etc?) irc rating will be high but we have been able to complete races comfortably quicker than the mumm30 to give some sort of benchmark..

Attached Files



#39 Michal (palacz) Palasz

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 09:05 PM

I've put new sweet model images on the polish t750 site.

check it out at www.t750.pl. Hope you like it :-)

#40 plaanaa

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Posted 22 January 2006 - 09:49 PM

Nice pics, Michal. And you bet, we like the idea, the boat and especially the price ;)

But hey. Ever considered translating your site into english, maybe not all of it but atleast some, major parts? Also, since I´m just a dumb fu**, I do not know what´s happening in the pics, translation needed badly :D

#41 Michal (palacz) Palasz

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 09:37 AM

yes planaa, we are going to translate the page, thus we've got some minor problems with our provider lately and it probably will take some time to areange everything.

#42 jermak

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 09:46 AM

Nice pics, Michal. And you bet, we like the idea, the boat and especially the price ;)

But hey. Ever considered translating your site into english, maybe not all of it but atleast some, major parts? Also, since I´m just a dumb fu**, I do not know what´s happening in the pics, translation needed badly :D

OK. so let's go for the first translations - Polish Michal is English Michael.
And Michael - go for it and put some life into our web site - get some text in English there!
Cutter and others - I am coming back to your questions soon. The good news first - we have received a semi - official invitation for the next winter season to the States. We are going to send two boats over there in October. How do you see such a plan?

#43 Michal (palacz) Palasz

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 09:49 AM

Hope it does work out and the boat is competitive cause I want one!

We're going to go by your advice and try to get a provisional rating for the IMS. Keep your fingers crossed.

For now we've published some VPP data provided by Steve.
Posted Image

It can also be found in the bottom of "t750" section of our page

#44 jermak

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 09:59 AM

Speng,
my personal thanks for your contribution here. We are here a susage country indeed, and we like it. But the other one we do not specially like.
Maybe we will be able to present our boats in America soon.
Cutter answerd a few question about ratings and it's the highest time to answer yours - bulb 400kG, boat with wings - separate things to be attached on the water, total weight 800kg. Boat on the road = 2500mm, on the water 2900mm.
Looks really good - at least for us.
Would you mind giving us some hints about tuning them up etc? I belive you had one some time ago.

#45 GybeSet®

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 01:28 PM

Speng,
my personal thanks for your contribution here. We are here a susage country indeed, and we like it. But the other one we do not specially like.
Maybe we will be able to present our boats in America soon.
Cutter answerd a few question about ratings and it's the highest time to answer yours - bulb 400kG, boat with wings - separate things to be attached on the water, total weight 800kg. Boat on the road = 2500mm, on the water 2900mm.
Looks really good - at least for us.
Would you mind giving us some hints about tuning them up etc? I belive you had one some time ago.

Cutter and brother Turtle are DEFinitely who should be asked

you can help yourself a bit by searching the username here on SA and SB anarchy, bit of background material ,
show results as 'posts' not threads, i have milan over here shall I ask him ?

#46 jermak

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 02:09 PM

Gybe, go ahead please - this is a good school English, isn't it? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I think we need all the help that is possible and available to make our thing a real rocket.
Thanls for a hand.

#47 GybeSet®

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Posted 23 January 2006 - 02:12 PM

no worries

its 'English school good' now!

#48 Cutter

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 12:25 AM

Speng,
my personal thanks for your contribution here. We are here a susage country indeed, and we like it. But the other one we do not specially like.
Maybe we will be able to present our boats in America soon.
Cutter answerd a few question about ratings and it's the highest time to answer yours - bulb 400kG, boat with wings - separate things to be attached on the water, total weight 800kg. Boat on the road = 2500mm, on the water 2900mm.
Looks really good - at least for us.
Would you mind giving us some hints about tuning them up etc? I belive you had one some time ago.



We have a 450kg bulb but our total weight is significantly less than the 800kg mentioned, id be aiming up to get total weight down to a max 650kgs prefer <600kgs with everything except sails and people.

If your boat goes anything like ours you'll find your polars published are intended for the handicapper...

#49 jermak

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 07:56 AM

:blink: :blink: 650 and even less than 600kg :blink: :blink: Good, but how can we do it? The boat herself will be just above 200kg plus bulb....

#50 Pelle

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 01:13 PM

Should be doable in carbon but it won't be cheap and it won't be that sturdy, strong enough yes, but sturdy and long lived....I doubt it. I think that for us boring (when it comes to sportsboats anyway :rolleyes: ) north europeans an 800 kg T750 will be more than enough and I'd rather have an 800 kg boat for 26k€ than a 600 kg version for twice the price.

#51 GybeSet®

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Posted 24 January 2006 - 01:31 PM

I don't think the weights vary off the spec much at all, from www.tboat.com
LOA 7.65 metre
Beam 2.9 metre (this varies some 2.5 in aus)
Draft 2.1 metre
Sailing Weight 1190 kg
Crew Weight 430 kg
Ballast 400 kg
SA UP 42.5 sq. m
SA Down 141.1 sq. m

so sailing weight (less crew) closing on 800 'on paper' (idealistic?)

in AUS (skiff-fashion) sometimes weights don't include sails crew and alot of the time rudder, ropes loose fittings.

adds up to about spec to me ?

J on tboat.com there are some fairly detailed rigging articles alot of the stuff would apply to setting up mast out of whatever material. best to follow BASIC skiff rigging ideals i.e. maximising mast integrity with masthead kites etc (via topstays well tensioned etc), plenty rig tension in most weather, 18' dude could help.
SteveT or cutter would know approx LOOS gauge numbers ?

#52 jermak

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 11:54 AM

Just came back from DUSSELDORF BOATSHOW. Lot's of interesting things there but not much about our sportboats...
Anyway, I will stay in touch with Steve regarding mast tuning etc....this "cathedral" rigging is a new thing for us.
We shall see how it works on the water soon. :unsure: :unsure:

#53 GybeSet®

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 12:05 PM

don't let the fancy name bother you, kiwis like that i.e TNZ "millenium rig" LOL

a skiff dude (18,14,49er ) could be an asset setting up mast, in addition to ST's advice

see the 750 at Skandia Geelong race week is having a few good races (cest la vie 2.5w cedar) lLINK here, SGRW

#54 Michal (palacz) Palasz

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Posted 27 January 2006 - 08:23 PM

Pity they got an OCS - could do much better and be sixth probably.

#55 peejay

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 10:56 AM

Stop press: T750 wins race 6 of Skandia Geelong Week. First on elapsed as well as corrected.

#56 lickety-split

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 11:54 AM

don't let the fancy name bother you, kiwis like that i.e TNZ "millenium rig" LOL

a skiff dude (18,14,49er ) could be an asset setting up mast, in addition to ST's advice

see the 750 at Skandia Geelong race week is having a few good races (cest la vie 2.5w cedar) lLINK here, SGRW


cest la vie = foam
cutter = cedar

#57 GybeSet®

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 12:23 PM

met the mate of Lanson's (he sailed it) and Pierre's that built it (also crewed) . memory dependant but it's strip planked ? All Coff's Hbr boys , like where those 79er masts are now.

lanson can confirm it's foam i guess. Images courtesy of Lanson SailR.com ! !

That fella in da middle Posted Image

More Cest la Vie (this boat won HAMMO RW in 2000, and now a GRW heat against t8, Viv
Posted Image

#58 GybeSet®

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 12:59 PM

images courtesy lanson cliquetez les jaunes

Posted Image

Some rigging for you Jermak Posted Image

#59 jermak

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 02:25 PM

Very helpfull picture of the mid and top sections of the main - was it succesfull sail? I am working now on sails for our boats and even having pre-bend from Streve it's always great to have a chance to look so deeply into someone else's sail.
Anu more pictures like this? I will appreciate them very much.

#60 GybeSet®

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 02:28 PM

yes the sail won the #1 regatta - HIRW. I'll ask U know who if he got any pics at Geelong.

#61 plaanaa

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Posted 28 January 2006 - 06:50 PM

Jermak, what is going to be the material for the sails?

#62 jermak

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 10:29 AM

The basic set will be DACRON for the price and durability. But we opt to keep the sailcloth matter open - you like Kevlar/Carbon, you may have it as well.
Same with material for mast - let's keep it open.
Any other ideas??? I think, it's nearly the perfect time to start talking about T750 OD regulations. Am I right or it is still too early?

#63 Kaissi

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 12:02 PM

The basic set will be DACRON for the price and durability. But we opt to keep the sailcloth matter open - you like Kevlar/Carbon, you may have it as well.
Same with material for mast - let's keep it open.
Any other ideas??? I think, it's nearly the perfect time to start talking about T750 OD regulations. Am I right or it is still too early?


I thought that Melges moved to Kevlar just because of durability issues ie. even though Kevlar sails are more expensive they tend to last much longer than Dacron or Pentex? So if you want to keep costs down, prohobit the most expensive sail materials such as carbon and cuben.

Also in case you want to keep it OD don't give too many options. So if the boat is supposed to be with carbon mast, so be it. The price is already so low that it should not be an issue any more. I think that there is already too many AOD (almost one design) classes around.

#64 GybeSet®

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 01:09 PM

AOD won't work , good class rules like this will.

where ever Melges moves it's $$ market driven BTW

stupid hiking rule. idiotic

#65 jermak

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 06:32 PM

http://www.t750.pl/f...wtopic.php?t=77 - states clearly the price is a PROMOTION PRICE unfurtunately.
But we are still trying to avoid: "where ever Melges (t750...) moves it's $$ market driven..."
Alu mast is much cheaper than carbon one....our price is EXTREMELY LOW for a purpose, but it doesn't depend on us a 100%. We cannot control it all the 100% of time and only promotion boats will have a chance to buy it at this price...
Our goal is a T750 OD CLASS, but not necessarily saying that an port upper spreader has to be coming from jermak co. ltd [u]:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Same with masts, sails etc... certain freedom makes things happen easier. It doesn't mean that national t750OD must comply with this liberal rules as long as it does comply with the International OD Rules for T750 - still to be announeced.
P.S.
Monday, this present one we are starting with the moulds.

#66 plaanaa

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Posted 29 January 2006 - 09:53 PM

Well, if that´s the promotion price...so what´s it gonna cost next year? If you´re planning that you sell a few boats with that price, and when there´s good OD beginning, you´ll ask 35 000 EUR for those I´d say it won´t work.

Good OD -fleets begins when there´s good second hand boats awailable and it´ll take years. Don´t get greedy, fellas. You have a very nice boat there, and if you can build them with good quality that price is a killer. But if you begin rising the price and there´s some boats with carbon masts and some with aluminium, all mixed up and the prices are this and that, it is going to be AOD -class, then die slowly. Hope not. I´d like to see these boats to be THE OD-class in Europe. Lot´s more dick in these than Platu 25 or even Melges 24, IMHO.

I still wish the best of luck to you, and if I understand right we will see you 20.5.2006 here in Finland. We are coming to the same race. I´ll buy you a beer, mate ;)

#67 GybeSet®

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 12:08 AM

carbo/alloy mast issue will need to be addressed in class I fear,

I think the race-winning Cest la Vie at geelong is still on alloy ??? so didn't stop her winning and placing against larger/reputedly faster opposition.

#68 Cutter

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 12:46 AM

Carbon rigs in
Mustard Cutter NZ CSpar section 80mm section taper to 65mm in top section from hounds up with Alloy spreaders (fully rigged 24.5kg's)
Cest La Vie(twistie) CST section With Alloy spreaders

750's with alloy rigs have had some issues with keeping them in one piece

Back in days when we raced to get a CBH handicap we needed class rules and funningly enough it was the only way we where allowed to use hiking straps whilst racing pbh, anyway have found the rules in the archives. btw i wrote them myself to suit myself and the equipment we had at the time, as we where the only 750 at the time it was amusing.

T750 One-Design Class Rules: January 1998 1. OBJECTIVES To ensure good and fair class racing in a one design yacht that allows sail development within the class rules. The intention of these rules is paramount and may be interpreted by the commitee to ensure the intention of fair and even sailing is upheld. 2. ADMINISTRATION 2.1 The T750 Class Association shall be the sole authority worldwide for the conduct and management of T750 Class events. Builders shall be licensed by the copyright holders, Thompson Performance Design. 2.2 All boats shall comply with drawings issued by the copyright holder and these class rules. Each boat shall have a manufacturer number attached to the chainplate bulkhead. 2.3 Moulded fibreglass parts, spars, rudder, and keel shall be supplied by authorised T750 licensed builders. Position of major fittings shall comply with the drawings. Traveller, Chainplates, stem fitting, jib tracks. 3. MEMBERS & HELMSMEN 3.1 The owner of each yacht shall have one vote within the T750 class association. Each yacht shall have one vote. All competing yachts in class events shall have one association member on board while racing. The copyright holder and each licensed builder may have one vote in the class association. 4. OPEN & CLUB EVENTS 4.1 The T750 class association shall organise events for each country as appropriate for that country. 5. MEASUREMENT 5.1 A measurer shall not measure a yacht in which he is an interested party. 5.2 Owners and primary helmsmen have the responsibility of ensuring that their yacht complies with these Class Rules. 5.3 By participating in T750 events or for T750 one-design trophies, owners agree to permit T750 Class Officers or Race Committee or their appointed representatives to board their boat unaccompanied for the purpose of inspecting, measuring or equalising at any time during a regatta or within 24 hours before or after an event. 6. EQUIPMENT RULES 6.1 Standard equipment shall not be relocated or removed when racing. Safety equipment shall conform to those listed in the sailing instructions. 6.2 Outboard engine of 3.5 hp or greater and at least 2 litres of fuel. 7. SAILS 7.1 Sails shall be measured and constructed in accordance with IOR sail measurements and IMS rules without penalty. 7.2 Each yacht shall be limited to a replacement of 3 sails per year as below. Each new boat: Full inventory of 6 class sails Each subsequent 12 months: One mainsail, one spinnaker and one jib 7.3 Only one mainsail, one masthead and one fractional spinnaker and one each of the three jibs may be measured for each contest. Replacement sails may be substituted for damaged sails by the discretion of the race officer. 7.4 Sails may be constructed of any material, excepting spinnakers which shall be of nylon or polyester or equivalent in cost. Each yacht shall have the T750 logo on it’s mainsail in accordance with the drawings. 7.5 Spinnakers The area of asymmetric spinnakers shall be computed using the formula: And may not be greater than Masthead - 112Sq meter Fractional -75Sq meter 7.7 Jibs maximum jib sizes No 1 Luff = 10420 LP = 3160 No 2 Luff = 10320 LP = 3080 No 3 Luff = 8550 LP = 2680 7.8 Mainsail The nainsail magimum girths are measured at points along the leach line at the aft edge of the mainsail to the nearest point on the forward edge of the boltrope. Refer to drawing on page 4 of these class rules. Luff = 10800 Foot = 4000 Leach = 11250 7/8 = 1370 3/4 = 1970 1/2 = 2850 Maximum 5 batterns 8. ADDITIONAL RULES 8.1 The maximum hull weight and dimensions as below 8.2 The maximum crew number is 6 8.3 The use of hiking straps is permitted

#69 ChrisK

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 12:58 AM

I agree regarding OD rules. The sooner the better and a definition of what is OD for the T750pl should be formulated.
Price is a function of quality. Quality will make older boats competetive and keep a good resale value of these boats. It is kind of naive and difficult to imagine that the price of 19KE or 26KE will stay forever.
Price have to be, however, competetive to current price for i.e. Melges24, Platu25 etc.

Jermak and Co. I hope you will establish a nice sportboat class on the shores of Baltic Sea and in EU.

Cheers,
ChrisK

#70 GybeSet®

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 05:20 AM

cutter

did 'Cest la Vie's) carbo stick come before or after the pics of the alloy-tube mast above (pic = yr 2000) ?
is she strip-planked ?

#71 Cutter

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 05:56 AM

thought she always had a white painted carbon stick,
cest la vie is foam boat cutter is strp plank cedar.

#72 GybeSet®

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 06:02 AM

I guess that is a white mast in the pics not alloy ? my bad assumption that is was alloy in pic then ? ( non-black DOH !)

#73 Christian

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 06:12 AM

I hope that nobody in their right mind would actually seriously think about putting a metal stick on a 750 - that would be so not right.

#74 jermak

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 02:21 PM

E35K for boat??? :blink: - No Plaanaa, do not worry. That would be some 40% price increase. No, what I am saying is a price correction for co-operation and materials prices etc in the future. Now we managed to get good prices for sails, masts etc, but these prices do not depend on us. :ph34r: We are working now on making long term deals with these people. :unsure:
And if anything goes a bit higher than now it will be the price change. What I have noticed already - it is easier to get low prices when one is dealing as a strong organisation than a single. Let's get this class created soon and we will not need to worry about the boat price. B)
Alu - carbon. Gents, what is a problem for those of us who want carbon stick? If someone wants alu - let him go for it. It will help us grow up. It's my opinion.
Same with sails - let's stay open. This size boat will not become a winner just because someone will have
Carbon against Kevlar or Dacron.
But, I say, it's my own opinion. To create strict and smart rules for OD T750 we need more entries from all interested.
Thanks for comments.
PLUG IS arriving here today - it will not be long before we start asking you for your orders. :rolleyes:

#75 jermak

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 02:48 PM

Seems like everybody liked the carbon stick idea - is it right? Let us know folks, before we do f#***k up and make it alu :huh: :huh:

#76 Christian

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 03:54 PM

Seems like everybody liked the carbon stick idea - is it right? Let us know folks, before we do f#***k up and make it alu :huh: :huh:



I urge you not to make alu sticks available. While some may opt for those to save a few Zloty these boats will become orphans (or ugly ducklings if you will) that are just going to cloud up the second hand market - not a good thing as the second hand market is very important in keeping an OD fleet alive and well. It would be a real shame to put a metal stick on these boats.

#77 jermak

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 04:36 PM

Christian,
see your point - good boat and shite stick do not match each other very well, or even at all... Very right, but how do we look like when we make a carbon stick the only option and the mast boys will decide to go high sky with the price?
The only option is starting with carbon tubes production :unsure: :unsure:

#78 Christian

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 04:41 PM

Christian,
see your point - good boat and shite stick do not match each other very well, or even at all... Very right, but how do we look like when we make a carbon stick the only option and the mast boys will decide to go high sky with the price?
The only option is starting with carbon tubes production :unsure: :unsure:



I am not sure I would start producing carbon sticks if I were you unless you get up to a high production volume - it just doesn't make sense. There are numerous spar builders around so if one starts jacking up the price - time to go shopping again. I will be happy to put you in touch with Southern Spars - the kind of stick you are looking for is what they specialize in - although they also build bigger spars - like the Maximus wingmast and others.

#79 peejay

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 04:44 PM

Christian,
see your point - good boat and shite stick do not match each other very well, or even at all... Very right, but how do we look like when we make a carbon stick the only option and the mast boys will decide to go high sky with the price?
The only option is starting with carbon tubes production :unsure: :unsure:

jermak, just make the boat a success (e.g. by keeping it stricly OD with the right choice of mast etc.). This will ensure that the mast boys will do whatever they can to stay with the success rather than screwing you. If not threaten to start a carbon tube production. That should keep them honest.

#80 jermak

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 05:39 PM

Going shopping might be a demanding challenge. I do not think that we can find any better/cheapper carbon spar boys than the ones we're having now...
Peejay is a 100% right - success = strong and big association will make any third party easy going. Things'll become "selfhappening", fat cats'll start cruising around...sweet life
So I see CARBON is the case. Let it be carbon then - but PLEASE, give me a hand when I will have to go shopping again.
Any other ideas?

P.S.
Most possibly the first Polish T750 will have a friendly race against German T750 Rocking Girl in the begining of APRIL in GUDOWO near Drawsko Pomorskie - LUBIE LAKE some 220 km NE from Berlin.
LUBIE hosted the German team a year ago. Guys, you will be more than very welcome there if some decided to pay us a visit.

#81 ChrisK

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 05:51 PM

Hey Jermak,
I will try to make arrangements to be there for the virgin t750pl race. ;-)
Just make sure it is not the April 1st.

Cheers,
Chris

#82 jermak

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 06:03 PM

Oooops, f****#ck no! Not a 1st of April!!!
Chris, thanks for warning. :D :D

#83 myusername

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 11:54 PM

PLUG IS arriving here today - it will not be long before we start asking you for your orders. :rolleyes:


PICS OR IT NEVER HAPPENED! :lol: ;)

#84 lickety-split

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 12:18 AM

jermak
If you need to shop talk to clive at CST in Australia, he can send you bare tubes for you to do the rest, even eliptical spreader sections. This is what i did, very easy.
Google CST and you will find.

Cheers window

#85 jermak

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 04:18 PM

jermak
If you need to shop talk to clive at CST in Australia, he can send you bare tubes for you to do the rest, even eliptical spreader sections. This is what i did, very easy.
Google CST and you will find.

Cheers window


I am on it right now - thanks!!!

#86 jermak

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 04:26 PM


PLUG IS arriving here today - it will not be long before we start asking you for your orders. :rolleyes:


PICS OR IT NEVER HAPPENED! :lol: ;)

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#87 jermak

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Posted 31 January 2006 - 04:29 PM



PLUG IS arriving here today - it will not be long before we start asking you for your orders. :rolleyes:


PICS OR IT NEVER HAPPENED! :lol: ;)

The picture presented above comes from the CNC company - we are placing and positioning all plug elements on the base frame now. It will take us some time. Stay cool and patient B) B)

#88 Kaissi

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Posted 01 February 2006 - 08:07 PM



PLUG IS arriving here today - it will not be long before we start asking you for your orders. :rolleyes:


PICS OR IT NEVER HAPPENED! :lol: ;)


Hmm, looking good. Keep up the good work guys!

#89 plaanaa

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Posted 12 March 2006 - 08:49 PM

Any news on this one? Jermak, Michal?

#90 GybeSet®

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Posted 13 March 2006 - 03:42 AM

Any news on this one? Jermak, Michal?

whats happening jermak ?

meanwhile the one of the first 750's in Aust.(mustard cutter) is still beating up 40' lead-bellies for it's new owner at
Airlie Beach in the Whitsunday's Qld sailing news.Posted Image


750 also recorded a win here

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#91 myusername

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:44 PM

Ok guys. One month of silence. I see your homepage has some english already, great. Any news? Are u gonna sail this summer or not? New problems? Anything?

#92 Michal (palacz) Palasz

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 12:53 AM

We're still working on the moulds, hoping to finish pretty soon though and hit the water this spring/summer. Stay tuned :-)

#93 SASB

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 11:47 PM


Any news on this one? Jermak, Michal?

whats happening jermak ?

meanwhile the one of the first 750's in Aust.(mustard cutter) is still beating up 40' lead-bellies for it's new owner at
Airlie Beach in the Whitsunday's Qld sailing news.Posted Image


750 also recorded a win here


I love the T750, but to be fair the win in R6 in Geelong had nothing to do with the boat or speed.

That race was an absolute drifter sailed in a murky brown light from the Anakie bushfires. Paul Heyes went round the top mark first (by a mile) and then Gybed back toward town (based on the assumption that breeze always fills in from that side) and parked. We were a little further back had an opportunity to see what he did and think about alternatives.

I noticed that the steam from the refinery chimney had started moving indicating a light Nthrly was filling in. We and a few boats around us didn't crack kites, but headed to the refinery side. Sure enough the breeze filled in from that side and we all did OK, Cest la vie got through us, Grange and Vivace got over that side as well and did OK as did one of the T7s as I recall. Paul had to tack to the bottom mark and it probably cost him the series.

And yes Cest La Vie has a Carbon Stick. I would also very strongly reccommend against alloy. Clive's sections are great, especially in heavy weather and big chop where they can auto depower. The other plus is that they are really light and easy to rig up and down with 2 people (cf struggling with 4 on one of Golding's sections).

Also drop the dacron idea. Maxx Laminate is the most durable material that I have found so far. We have got 2 full seasons out of the last set of working sails (and 2 mast breakages) which is far better than anything else. The other advantage of Maxx is that the sails can be constructed crosscut, resulting in significant cost savings in cutting and assembly compared to traditional tri-radial carbon/kevlar laminates.

#94 GybeSet®

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 11:53 PM

it's still a podium boat even in that very fast fleet, that included two obviously bigger, faster designs. (Viv & 8 ) is my point.

It has a little to do with speed, can't see any slow boats mentioned above, i 'get' the lottery tho. !!!!

#95 SASB

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Posted 13 April 2006 - 06:35 AM

it's still a podium boat even in that very fast fleet, that included two obviously bigger, faster designs. (Viv & 8 ) is my point.

It has to do with speed, can't see any slow boats mentioned above?


I guess my point was that the only race it won on pseudo CBH was a drifter and the reason it won that one was that the T7 which was (emabarassingly) miles in front went the wrong way. In other races it was hammered by Vivace and the T8 and even beaten by Charlie and an E780 Espx. To be fair a boat with that much rocker (cf vivace and T8) isn't ideal in light, flat conditions.

In the end mid fleet for it, Vivace the T8 was probably a fair result.

The overall series results were pretty right: Game Over (thanks to a newly revised down CBH) and the 2 T7s (with their revised up CBH - at least no longer a T7 benefit) then a gap with The tassie E780 (another Girl), T8 (GUE), T750 (Cest La Vie) and E780 Escape (Escapade) all close then a gap, Vivace, a Lyons 750 and Charlie with the rest out the back. How an SB3 gets into that fleet is a bit beyond me, but each to their own.

Had the conditions been heavier / choppier the T750, Charlie, and the Heavier Elliotts probably would have done relitively better both over the line and on CBH.

#96 julian

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 01:47 AM

[quote name='SASB' date='Apr 13 2006, 09:47 AM' post='698930']

[/quote]


And yes Cest La Vie has a Carbon Stick. I would also very strongly reccommend against alloy. Clive's sections are great, especially in heavy weather and big chop where they can auto depower. The other plus is that they are really light and easy to rig up and down with 2 people (cf struggling with 4 on one of Golding's sections).

[/quote]

Ok Newbie
Which particular alloy section are you talking about? Spunspar alloy mast sections are as light as you can make them. And they are considerably cheaper than an equivalent composite section. And they depower as the wind increases when set up correctly! Spunspar makes a pretty good alloy mast! It only takes 2 to raise Charley's mast - are you referring to that section?
CST also makes a pretty good composite mast.
You'd do better than use SB anarchy to push someones product while decrying anothers!

#97 SASB

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Posted 14 April 2006 - 06:25 AM

[quote name='julian' date='Apr 14 2006, 11:17 AM' post='700575']
[quote name='SASB' date='Apr 13 2006, 09:47 AM' post='698930']

[/quote]


And yes Cest La Vie has a Carbon Stick. I would also very strongly reccommend against alloy. Clive's sections are great, especially in heavy weather and big chop where they can auto depower. The other plus is that they are really light and easy to rig up and down with 2 people (cf struggling with 4 on one of Golding's sections).

[/quote]

Ok Newbie
Which particular alloy section are you talking about? Spunspar alloy mast sections are as light as you can make them. And they are considerably cheaper than an equivalent composite section. And they depower as the wind increases when set up correctly! Spunspar makes a pretty good alloy mast! It only takes 2 to raise Charley's mast - are you referring to that section?
CST also makes a pretty good composite mast.
You'd do better than use SB anarchy to push someones product while decrying anothers!
[/quote]

i wasn't suggesting that one couldn't engineer an excellent alloy section / rig. It was a comment on my own experience.

I was referring to my old section. It was considerably heavier than the new carbon stick, much stiffer at the top and didn't depower as well (much at all really). Come to think of it prehaps all those things were related.

To be fair it also came with the boat and a rig design that was not optimal - ie heavy section, suboptimal spreader angles, no backstay and no I point jumpers (caps terminating at the lower spreaders).

In any event it broke at the lower spreaders (burying the nose in 30+ kts with kite up will do it) and was replaced with a carbon mast and rig that was designed to do what is required.

I am also sure that if Clive was sailing sports boats his mast would be a very well engineered example of the genre just as one would expect Charley to have an optimal design and execution of the alloy variety.

As for cost, from my experence replacing the rig, the cost of the Carbon was just under 2x the cost of the alloy tube, the assembly labour 30% more and the rest the same. All up the difference was about 25% more for a fully rigged mast. Considerable? probably, but not as much as you would think when just looking at the tube prices.

So take it as personal experience and comment, not commercial endorsement or derision. I'll look for the 2 lifting the mast next time!

#98 GybeSet®

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Posted 11 May 2006 - 07:57 PM

.
Jermak, how's it all progressing ?

#99 Sandgroper Yachting

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Posted 12 May 2006 - 02:01 AM

There are 2 T750's here in Western Australia. I think one of them has a set of moulds. Will try and speak to one of them, and get them onto here if possible.


The two boats over here in Western Australia were built off a male jig setup.
They have a CNC mould of the foils from memory.
One of the boats busted a couple of rudders in quick succesion so they spent the money to get them built properly.
The rigs were done by Windrush from memory.

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#100 jermak

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Posted 14 May 2006 - 03:07 PM

Gents, I know I owe you lots of explanations but first: the project is still on though delayed seriously.
No matter the reasons, we are still going ahaed.
Right now I would like to ask you guys one question: are we ready to start creating T750 OD Union? - costs nothing but seems to be usefull very much. I need the answers from all interested parties - go ahaed and let me know. We came to a stage that we need to think seriously the idea about t750 OD
Cheers,
Peter




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