1005 replies to this topic

[GRUMPY]

Good for you Jaymac! Go hard bloke!!

[harryb]

Checked out first Aussie FT10 at Royal Perth Yesterday.
Very impressed with boat in general,However motor door & tiller really do let the boat down and will have to be redesigned.

But its a bloody beauty.
Well done.
#72

[Norm]

Do you mind if i ask how much it cost to land at the yacht club from china.

I was very interested in the boat and still am but the duties and taxes were too much.

[Frakka]

Mast is glued together, bomb bay door being re-hashed and anti foul being sanded fair prior to spraying. Note the chinese character of the name sticker. The hull has to be lifted to full keel height yet.

 FT43.jpg   85.86K   249 downloads

As well as Mumm 30's, a 11m OD (Jay's old boat), the FT will compete against these 36' OD's. There is a fleet of about fourteen, ten of which are matched boats.

 FT42.jpg   79.55K   160 downloads

gbm,

This FT will probably be the first one to sail in a real breeze to check its predictions. The summer breezes are really starting to happen now. Pity it wasn't out in the 35+kts last saturday week.

[Strobe]

Spoke to Jaymac last night on the phone. One very owner of a Flying Tiger.
He had just got his stereo going in the boat and had the music blasting in the back ground.
Unfortunately work commintment will not allow me to get to Perth to see the boat for three weeks.
All the best Jay.
Look forward to hearing how she sails in a blow.
Regards
Strobe No 77

[GybeSet®]

which AUS safety Cat will the FT qualify for, in respect to it's inboard but outboard motor ?

thoughts ?

[Bob Perry]

I may be wrong but I think that the sails are all shipped seperately from the sailmaker to the owner to avoid Chinese duty on the sails.

[Bob Perry]

Frakka:
Congrats on the new boat.
Many thanks for hanging in there with us.
Do you have the rigging plan?

[Sandgroper Yachting]

which AUS safety Cat will the FT qualify for, in respect to it's inboard but outboard motor ?

thoughts ?

It will get cat 3 with that setup.
Not sure about cat 2 though.
Im not sure if i would want to attempt a cat 2 race in the boat.

[glug]

It will get cat 3 with that setup.
Not sure about cat 2 though.
Im not sure if i would want to attempt a cat 2 race in the boat.

Might be a good slide up to Geraldton!


Bob, jaymac is the owner. Frakka is the groupie.....

[Frakka]

Might be a good slide up to Geraldton!
Bob, jaymac is the owner. Frakka is the Accredited Reporter.....

Thank you glug.

BP, I got involved when Jaymac ran foul of the Ed and was parked up for a while. Jay is pretty busy getting the boat in shape but I'm sure will have lots to say after the launch and trials. My personal opinion is that the delivered boat is good value, generally well finished and any custom fitting etc is more then compensated for by the price. Looking forward to its performance on the water.

Meanwhile, extra (and thicker) bolts and backing plate on lower gudgeon (washer missing?).

 Dscn0048.jpg   60.68K   124 downloads

door tidied up and keel taped off.

 Dscn0050.jpg   69.13K   201 downloads

[Frakka]

And hull raised to full keel height for spray painting today - wind permitting.

 Dscn0051.jpg   103.98K   157 downloads

[glug]

Ha ha. Thought you'd appreciate that Frakka.

What has jaymac done to fix the motor well? Looks like he's ground back and layed in extra glass to flush up the edges?

[Frakka]

Ha ha. Thought you'd appreciate that Frakka.

What has jaymac done to fix the motor well? Looks like he's ground back and layed in extra glass to flush up the edges?

And put in a lip to keep the door fair with the hull plus not allowing it to fall down below the hull.

[CazzaRanda]

And put in a lip to keep the door fair with the hull plus not allowing it to fall down below the hull.

When you have a chance, can you post a pic with the door half opened to show the lip? (graphic detail)

Thanks,
Cazza

[karua]

I'm in Perth for a party tomorrow night (Friday). Thinking about going to have a look at the new FT 10 on Saturday - is she still at RPYC? Or will you be out sailing?

Cheers,

[Bob Perry]

Frakka:
thanks for correcting me. I was confused. Please keep me in the loop.

[Sandgroper Yachting]

Might be a good slide up to Geraldton!

Just as long as you dont get the 30 knot northerlies we've had for the last 2 years.
A nice south wester would be pretty good fun with a nice big assy.

[Frakka]

Dropped in late after work, bottom sprayed. Probably drop it in and step the mast this morning. I have found a bit of work to do in that area , will swing by in an hour or so, see what's cooking.

Cazza, will get the info and pic's when I can.

Karua, the boat lives at RPYC, probably out sailing saturday.

[Frakka]

Boat was ready to go in but this is something along the lines:

 sketch.jpg   24.88K   438 downloads

For insurance purposes - top 2.5m of track attached by solid fittings as well as glue:

 FT54.jpg   96.89K   198 downloads

[Frakka]

And by crikey, in the water:

 FT57.jpg   102.82K   222 downloads

Rigger just started ginning around, saw the champagne glasses go on board, should be a nice sundowner (with borrowed sails).

 FT60.jpg   90.22K   302 downloads

If we can ever get those Australian sails out of customs it won't be long before we have some numbers for top speeds.

I'm sorry Bob, I've missed something here. Australian sails? WTF??

There is a rumour that the customs man in China handling the import/export of #12's sails has gone on holiday and only he can complete the transaction ?, still got a way to go that country.

Makes the whole project pretty remarkable.

[GRUMPY]

Looks great, can't wait to hear what the Aussie sailors can do with it!

I missinterpreted Bob's comment, I thought maybe somebody had ordered good Aussie sail for a US boat....

The FT line up with the Freo 36's Frakka?

[Frakka]

Looks great, can't wait to hear what the Aussie sailors can do with it!

I missinterpreted Bob's comment, I thought maybe somebody had ordered good Aussie sail for a US boat....

The FT line up with the Freo 36's Frakka?

That's right, they are as supplied by the designated sailmaker. Don't know why they can't be delivered straight here from the US, maybe a customs thing with the setup of the whole project ?.

The FT will sail in Div 1 at RPYC against the Foundation 36's, Mumm 30's, Adams 10's, S9.7's, an 11m OD as well as a mixture of other larger and smaller boats. They all sail together at times with SPYC and RFBYC and a couple of Thompson 7.5's and an Elliot 8.7 join in. Quite an issue at SPYC with boats from 7.5m to 18m on the same line.

My resolution for next week is to spend more time on work and less time fucking around at yacht clubs and SA (so much more enjoyable though).

[CazzaRanda]

looking good, thanks for the pics Frakka and for the drawings of the door fix. The mast feels good now that it's back home. Should have enough frequent fliers miles for a trip to old Europe now...

Reminder to Bill: next time you ship a hull down under slip a digital camera in the container, Frakka's camera sucks!

Cazza

(EDIT: if you have better resolution pictures can you email to info@ft10class.info, I can use a few for the class website. tx!)

[Terrorvision]

That's right, they are as supplied by the designated sailmaker. Don't know why they can't be delivered straight here from the US, maybe a customs thing with setup of the whole project ?.

I thought they were being made by the Prydey loft in China?

[Frakka]

looking good, thanks for the pics Frakka and for the drawings of the door fix. The mast feels good now that it's back home. Should have enough frequent fliers miles for a trip to old Europe now...

Reminder to Bill: next time you ship a hull down under slip a digital camera in the container, Frakka's camera sucks!

Cazza

As long as its Friday and my new resolution hasn't kicked in yet I will reply: how do you get a good photo downloaded if you reduce the pixel count to meet SA spec's ?.

[Mid]

As long as its Friday and my new resolution hasn't kicked in yet I will reply: how do you get a good photo downloaded if you reduce the pixel count to meet SA spec's ?.

off site hosting ,

then use a link

xs.to

[nroose]

Easiest way to upload photos (at least those that are not explicit) is something like flickr. You download a tool and you can then select many photos and it will downsize them for the web and then upload them to an album and add tags that you specify. Then just put a link to flickr in the thread. There are other photo sharing sites, but I have not tried them recently. Otherwise, just include it here on the thread by uploading it as a file when you post.

[karua]

Well, I come all the way from Sydney to Perth, take ten minutes to see the FT10, and someone takes a photo of the wife and me having a look - I can now prove I was in Perth...

Cheers!

oh and the boat looks very good - hopefully I'll see one in Sydney sometime?

[stripclubjunkie]

We've seen the FT - where are the pics of the wifey..?? What's she rate..??

[Yaz]

Thank you glug.

BP, I got involved when Jaymac ran foul of the Ed and was parked up for a while. Jay is pretty busy getting the boat in shape but I'm sure will have lots to say after the launch and trials. My personal opinion is that the delivered boat is good value, generally well finished and any custom fitting etc is more then compensated for by the price. Looking forward to its performance on the water.

Meanwhile, extra (and thicker) bolts and backing plate on lower gudgeon (washer missing?).

 Dscn0048.jpg   60.68K   124 downloads

door tidied up and keel taped off.

 Dscn0050.jpg   69.13K   201 downloads

Geez, BIAM was right. The FT really is a kit boat.

[glug]

So jaymac. Honking Sou-Easter on Saturday. How'd you go?

[Frakka]

So jaymac. Honking Sou-Easter on Saturday. How'd you go?

The planned sail was for monday but Jay got spooked by the US rudder cassettes failing in light air. An anchor was sourced in case Panthera suffered the same fate. In any case it was pretty breezy easterlies, still 18-20kts at midday and top gust 31kts. Sail abandoned and work started on a beefed up stainless cassette. IMHO the top gudgeon could have had a higher mounting block to improve the ratio of pintle separation to rudder length, cut down the stressing a little.

[Code Z]

The planned sail was for monday but Jay got spooked by the US rudder cassettes failing in light air. An anchor was sourced in case Panthera suffered the same fate. In any case it was pretty breezy easterlies, still 18-20kts at midday and top gust 31kts. Sail abandoned and work started on a beefed up stainless cassette. IMHO the top gudgeon could have had a higher mounting block to improve the ratio of pintle separation to rudder length, cut down the stressing a little.

Be interesting to know what the true costs are once the boats are beefed up to sailing standard??

[glug]

IMHO the top gudgeon could have had a higher mounting block to improve the ratio of pintle separation to rudder length, cut down the stressing a little.

That was my thoughts as well when I saw the boat and how freekin huge the rudder is. It stands to reason there is going to be massive loads to hold that lever arm. Seperation of the pintles would have helped.

[Frakka]

Went to take a pic but flat battery. Anyhow this is the solution a-la-oz:

 ft10rudder.jpg   24.52K   126 downloads Mk3 dwg

Will get a pic to prove it up when I can. (edit)

[CazzaRanda]

Jay made a reinforcement of the cassette using laser cutted s/s (he's in the business of laser cutting) that is what Frakka drawn. Jay's comment sent to other owners after his first sail was: "The boat is lovely, sails like a witch, sorry have not more time..."

Cazza

(I wonder if this makes me a groupie too)

[Frakka]

Refresh us, Frakka, on what you were unable to take a picture of. Is this the 'beefed up stainless cassette" you mentioned a couple days back?

DMM,
If I thought you were being facetious I would reply; “ What part of these sentences and diagram don’t you understand ? ”.

But I don’t think that is the case and the answer is; “yes”.

Cazza
(I wonder if this makes me a "groupie" too)

Thanks for the civilised reply, the term is “Accredited Reporter” .
You guys should appreciate the interest from supportive non-owners. New members of the FT fleet may come from these people.

[CazzaRanda]

I just learned the new word few posts ago... had to use it to remember.

Please, keep sending your reports, we need a picture of panthera sailing. And thanks for the info you've sent so far!

Cazza

[skint-again]

Went to take a pic but flat battery. Anyhow this is the solution a-la-oz:



Will get a pic to prove it happened today.

Are these glassed into the original cassette? or are they joined together externally?

[NeverIn]

Are these glassed into the original cassette? or are they joined together externally?

Sure both would improve the original flawed design

[Yaz]

Sure both would improve the original flawed design

According to Ben in another thread, it is the layup and not the design that is flawed.

[Frakka]

Top gudgeon/pintle (raw state)

 DSCN0065.JPG   101.21K   137 downloads

bottom

 DSCN0066.JPG   87.22K   99 downloads

[Frakka]

Port

 DSCN0067.JPG   78.97K   79 downloads

Stbd

 DSCN0068.JPG   101.27K   111 downloads

[Mid]

dumb question time
how do you remove the rudder now ?
unbolt it ?

[Frakka]

Bottom, note extra bolt(s) + internal backing plate (believe me).

 DSCN0071.JPG   88.75K   68 downloads

Top, very raw state, note welds on collars.

 DSCN0072.JPG   83.73K   74 downloads

[Frakka]

dumb question time

Certainly is, if you let me finish you would have spotted the self locking bolt.

[Mid]

not the Nyloc ............

[Frakka]

not the Nyloc ............

not only do you butt in, you can't read either; "Raw State".

And I have not finished as yet.

[Mid]

not only do you butt in, you can't read either; "Raw State".

And I have not finished as yet.

well excuse me .........

touchy

[Frakka]

 DSCN0073.JPG   111.82K   112 downloads

From another thread:

This boat was delivered as shown, the 20c piece is 28mm, the holes 33mm apart. Good control for a deck sweeper, infinite control for an elevated clew. Cars need not be an issue for OD, stipulate track size and position and stay silent on the cars, several classes do.

[Frakka]

well excuse me .........

touchy

Just kidding.

[EWS]

If possible it would be sweet to spec the additional holes to harken when fabricated to retain the black annodizing in those areas..........

[glug]

Its good to see that while the bitching and hand wringing about this problem continues in other threads, Jaymac is quietly going ahead with sorting the problem without (physical) support from the yard or other owners.

Nice work Jaymac. Good reporting too groupie.

[FUNK]

Bottom, note extra bolt(s) + internal backing plate (believe me).

 DSCN0071.JPG   88.75K   68 downloads

Top, very raw state, note welds on collars.

 DSCN0072.JPG   83.73K   74 downloads

That a fine piece of work, well done.

[Bill E Goat]

Bottom, note extra bolt(s) + internal backing plate (believe me).

What, there was no backing plate behind the gudgeons ?

[GRUMPY]

That how I read it too BEG. Frakka can you confirm no backplate on original fit up??

[gbm]

I talked to Jaymac, he said that he didn't believe some of the backing plates were big enough so he changed a few out for bigger ali plates. better to do it now before you have a much bigger problem.

the bitching about the boats on other threads is just crap - if you aren't happy with a bolt / a backing plate or other small part of how things are finished how hard is it to buy a good quality replacement and fit it your self? just as Jaymac has been doing. get over it - it is a ~ $55K boat if you don't want to have to fix a few minor problems then they will become $90-120K boats very quickly and this defeats the main attraction of the boat - the price.

[Swanno (Ohf Shore)]

Best of luck with your new toy mate. I am very interested to see it out sailing.

[Clewless]

Its good to see that while the bitching and hand wringing about this problem continues in other threads, Jaymac is quietly going ahead with sorting the problem without (physical) support from the yard or other owners.

Nice work Jaymac. Good reporting too groupie.

I would not say that this is done in isolation. The owners are in close communications exchanging information & tips. JM was informed of the cassette failures within 4 hrs of happening. We take care of our lot....

A great deal of communications goes on behind the scenes.

Clew

[Frakka]

We take care of our lot....

A great deal... goes on behind the scenes.

Clew

You mean like the KKK or mafia........? (sharp intake of breath).

[Code Z]

Panthera has been here for almost a month now and have been checking out Royal Perth results
Obviously hasn't started in any Saturday or Wednesday races - I realise there's been problems,
when will she have her first start??? - just curious to see how she performs

[jaymac]

Panthera has been here for almost a month now and have been checking out Royal Perth results
Obviously hasn't started in any Saturday or Wednesday races - I realise there's been problems,
when will she have her first start??? - just curious to see how she performs

Sorry guys, been away on the Adelaide Classic car rally, and the wind surfung season has been hooking in well.
Going for a sail at RPYC on Sat Morn around 11 if anyone wants to join welcome. First race will be on Wednesday next week.

[TheBoathouse]

Sorry guys, been away on the Adelaide Classic car rally, and the wind surfung season has been hooking in well.
Going for a sail at RPYC on Sat Morn around 11 if anyone wants to join welcome. First race will be on Wednesday next week.

Good luck with ole hull # 12, that was my original hull # for a long time so I feel some attachment to it. Since it would not have been delivered until after our sailing season ended I swapped out to #39 coming next spring (our spring your fall) so it all worked out for the good.. Scott

["DA MAN"]

NICE THING ABOUT "DOWN UNDER".
SENCE OF HUMOR!

THIS LITTLE "BUGGER", SMALLEST THING I EVER BUILT IN MY LIFE!

BUGS DISSAPPEARING FAST AS WE TALK.

IMPORTANT THING, "BOB AND BEN HAVE CREATED ONE HELL OF A YACHT"

NOW WE GOTTA BUILDEM!

WILL DO!

ENJOY!

NUFF SAID


P.S. HOW MANY OF YOU ASSHOLE'S HAVE FATHERS WHO WERE SKIPPERS WITH ME IN THE WENT INDIES? TIME TO STAND UP AND BE COUNTED.

[glug]

His like your drunken dad. You love him but he makes you cringe sometimes....

[Bryce]

Went down to RPYC for a pilgrimage’’ to the first Aussie FT. Just a quiet moment… after an age of gestation…

Maybe one or two jobs to tidy up before some serious racing, but the rudder cassette now looks robust enough. Hope the Outhaul fix works out OK and whatever the plan is for the forward stanchions?

Other than that, she looked used, mildly abused and very happy with herself. Good to see the locals getting on with fixing up what is a hell of a boat (bang for buck) and keeping the whinging to a minimum. If I can change my flight to Kalgoorlie tomorrow I might come down to see her in action.

Keep up the good work guys…

[Bob Perry]

Has this boat been sailed yet? I'd really like to hear from anyone who has sailed the first Australian boat.

[Strobe]

Bob
I beleive she is having here first race today and practice sail was on Saturday.
I still have not got to Perth to see it. My father was in Perth last week and went down and saw Jay. Dad discribed it as a moden day Adams 10 with a cabin?
Look forward to hear how Jay goes.
Strobe
No77 or sooner please

[jaymac]

Raced Panthera today, half powered up in 25kts of wind, used a tiny No 3 jib off a next door boat, with 7 on the rail. Boat started fast, easily driven on a reach, a bit underpowered and over baggy upwind. Nothing that attention to backstay tension, mast prebend, and outhaul won't fix. Helm felt too neutral, maybe not enough mast rake, but more likely too much forward rake on the rudder and a little over balanced, cannot really tell without the big headsail up.

In general the boat is a beautifully designed toy. The hull is bigger than I expected from the drawings with higher freeboard. The cabin top is less intrusive and blends in well. Down below the space is large and the fibreglass work is excellent especially the detailed, accurate, light construction of each floor board. The Mast combines flexibilty with strength and the rigging is strong and robust. The supplied sails are totally adequate, and the kite is a really special sail that has lots of fun potential.

At the end of the day we had a Mumm 30 with tired sails a few minutes behind us, an Adams 10 just infront, and the Foundation 36s well spaced out futher in front. We put in this performance for the basis of our new handicap, and we were just that happy nothing fell off.
I am not sure if it will take a month or so for me to get this boat to sail right ...or if it might take a month or so for this boat to teach me to sail it right! but we either way we are going to have a lot of fun.

Thanks Bob for a great design..Jaymac

[TheBoathouse]

Nothing that attention to backstay tension, mast prebend, and outhaul won't fix. Helm felt too neutral, maybe not enough mast rake, but more likely too much forward rake on the rudder and a little over balanced, cannot really tell without the big headsail up.

Sounds like a great shakedown race! Question regarding pre-bend if I remember correctly the spreaders are fixed so with fixed spreaders and a fixed mast step how are you going to adequately adjust prebend? Also in 25kts you went for the storm jib, were you underpowered going to weather or? Finally I assume you didn't put reef points in the main, will the backstay (once it is fixed) be enough to depower the main?

[EWS]

Pre-bend will come purely from upper shroud tensions when tuning the rig

[Bob Perry]

Jaymac:
thanks for the update. I find it hard to imagine the boat feeling underpowered in 25 knots even with the small jib but I'll take your word on it. I agree that the helm feels very light. I kind of like that but it may not be the fastest way to sail. I don't think toying withthe rudder blade will have much effect on the feel. I think you are going to have to adjust mast rake to dial in more helm. But, this is a narrow boat and helm may be hard to find. Adjusting the rake of the rudder blade in the casette may give you more feel while not upsetting the overall balance of the boat. I particularily liked the solid feel of the boat, no creaks, cracks and groans while sailing, except my back.

When you have time keep us updated on your performance please.

[Phil]

Jaymac,what sort of Adams10?
Flushdeck or cabin?

Whats its name,so I can follow the results?

[EWS]

seems to work with the Antrim 27's......ask polar bear.........he has a CST Composite rig on his boat and they run quite a bit of prebend since there is no backstay

[Sparky]

Jaymac,what sort of Adams10?
Flushdeck or cabin?

Whats its name,so I can follow the results?

I figured that would get your attention Phil :-)
It certainly got mine.
Early days though.

[Phil]

I figured that would get your attention Phil :-)
It certainly got mine.
Early days though.

It should be a good comparison,given the A10s no longer considered a light weight.A better one of course would be a Hick30,ala Very Tasty.

[GybeSet®]

...Question regarding pre-bend if I remember correctly the spreaders are fixed so with fixed spreaders and a fixed mast step how are you going to adequately adjust prebend? ...

Pre-bend will come purely from upper shroud tensions when tuning the rig

. .and then you break the spreaders when the midmast wants to go forward. boathouse is on the money here.

swept back rig

i'm with EWS
The fixed spreaders will produce (inherent) pre-bend if they have any 'Poke' at all. It's just a matter of how much you 'dial out' (diminish it) with the d1 d2 tension.

[Code Z]

 Results_for_29_11_2006_PM.htm   20.86K   70 downloads

Jaymac,what sort of Adams10?
Flushdeck or cabin?

Whats its name,so I can follow the results?

Wednesday Arfo Racing (Im from another club but think I have the boats correct)
R6 - Foundation 36
By & Large - Foundation 36
Team Saab - Foundation 36
Men Behaving Badly - Adams 10 (with cabin)
Fleur De Lys - Swarbrick 97
AUS 12 - Panthera **
R8 - Not sure - guessing new Bakewell White 8
Red Fever - Mumm 30 (dont know what he's doing back there)
The Croc - Etchells
Farrari - Farr 9.2
Farrfetched - Farr 9.2

[Code Z]

Time Lord - Young 31 rocket

[glug]

Red Fever - Mumm 30 (dont know what he's doing back there)

I can assure you the Mumm doesn't get sailed to potential

[Strobe]

I could be wrong but I thought Men Behaving Badly is a flush deck Adams 10?

[Code Z]

I could be wrong but I thought Men Behaving Badly is a flush deck Adams 10?

Yea - saw it Saturday - is a flush deck - my mistake

[jaymac]

That Adams sailed well today, in a 25kt seabreeze, left us for dead up wind without a properly designed No 3.

So we sailed on past the top mark and then set the big one for a ride downhill.
Once we got it up she was stable and fast, with occaisional, slight nose dives, that should have been corrected by easing the sheet, and bringing weight aft.
We cruised down river with a fair bit of foil hum and 15kts showing on a slow speedo. I felt that we could still use more power.
Pulled on the mainsheet a little bit and she rounded up in a big broach, lay over with the kite flogging for a minute or two until a bit of mainsheet gave a enough water flow over the rudder to sail back downwind again.

The Good news, The mast is fantastic, despite all the banging and flogging around it stayed firm and solid and gives the impression that it can take a lot more power. The pole too is also strong without undue bend. The Asymetrical Kite is a beautiful sail, sets high with big broard shoulders and has lots of grunt. The hull handled it all very well, proving that the Tiger is a lot more than just a pretty boat with top quality fibreglass work.

Systems look good for the next downwinder in a real breeze, will get some photos too.

Jaymac

[H20]

That Adams sailed well today, in a 25kt seabreeze, left us for dead up wind without a properly designed No 3.

So we sailed on past the top mark and then set the big one for a ride downhill.
Once we got it up she was stable and fast, with occaisional, slight nose dives, that should have been corrected by easing the sheet, and bringing weight aft.
We cruised down river with a fair bit of foil hum and 15kts showing on a slow speedo. I felt that we could still use more power.
Pulled on the mainsheet a little bit and she rounded up in a big broach, lay over with the kite flogging for a minute or two until a bit of mainsheet gave a enough water flow over the rudder to sail back downwind again.

The Good news, The mast is fantastic, despite all the banging and flogging around it stayed firm and solid and gives the impression that it can take a lot more power. The pole too is also strong without undue bend. The Asymetrical Kite is a beautiful sail, sets high with big broard shoulders and has lots of grunt. The hull handled it all very well, proving that the Tiger is a lot more than just a pretty boat with top quality fibreglass work.

Systems look good for the next downwinder in a real breeze, will get some photos too.

Jaymac

Well that was a fun read.

[Bryce]

That Adams sailed well today, in a 25kt seabreeze, left us for dead up wind without a properly designed No 3.

So we sailed on past the top mark and then set the big one for a ride downhill.
Once we got it up she was stable and fast, with occaisional, slight nose dives, that should have been corrected by easing the sheet, and bringing weight aft.
We cruised down river with a fair bit of foil hum and 15kts showing on a slow speedo. I felt that we could still use more power.
Pulled on the mainsheet a little bit and she rounded up in a big broach, lay over with the kite flogging for a minute or two until a bit of mainsheet gave a enough water flow over the rudder to sail back downwind again.

The Good news, The mast is fantastic, despite all the banging and flogging around it stayed firm and solid and gives the impression that it can take a lot more power. The pole too is also strong without undue bend. The Asymetrical Kite is a beautiful sail, sets high with big broard shoulders and has lots of grunt. The hull handled it all very well, proving that the Tiger is a lot more than just a pretty boat with top quality fibreglass work.

Systems look good for the next downwinder in a real breeze, will get some photos too.

Jaymac

And not even a passing comment about the rudder cassette.... sorted. Assume the boom end outhaul block fitting is fixed and working well and what was the reason for taking out the forward stancions? Full main OK in 25 knots?

[Frakka]

left us for dead up wind without a properly designed No 3.

Asked Phil about the Adams/FT thing, he didn't hold back on the FT's rags, very editor-like.

and 15kts showing on a slow speedo.

Don't I recall from the polars, 12kts in 20kts at 135 degrees true. The rhumb line from Brickies to Outer Dolphin in a seabreeze is pretty close to 135 degrees and 15kts in 25kts seems to bear out the predictions, no ?..........

Jay,
Give me a call for the photo shoot, assume it'll be a wednesday ?, and calibrate the speedo !!!.
Frakka.

[vego1049]

Not my intention to be critical but in my experience Bull's and Mumm's (both 31ft) have no issue with the A10's. With quality sails, full crew etc where are the tigers expected to be in comparison?

[Phil]

I only note the comparison to the A10 for the Aussies..they are a known factor in the same market/size etc. All be it designed 30 years later.

Same as comparing a Mumm 30 to an A10,although the M and the FT have a cabin .But you know what I mean[I hope].

[H20]

The mumm and the A10(presumably) have a #4 for such conditions. Adding a FT#4 would help handicap racing in a breeze and in OD nobody gets to use it anyway.

[Sparky]

The mumm and the A10(presumably) have a #4 for such conditions. Adding a FT#4 would help handicap racing in a breeze and in OD nobody gets to use it anyway.

Nearly a year ago several of us Aussies urged the class association to allow some kind of heavy weather headsail due to the conditions that we experience on a routine basis.

At least in Perth/Freemantle and Hobart 15-20 knots is routine, not exceptional - and 20+ is not at all unusual. Sydney and Melbourne see the same conditions although perhaps less frequently (Phil?)

In my opinion it is a sail longevity and safety issue and both concerns apply just as much to OD racing as they do to handicap races. Not having a smaller, heavier jib in Australia means sailing very overpowered on a regular basis and reducing the life expectancy of the class headsail. I'd rather race with a sail that is appropriate to the conditions than wrestle with the boat and spend unnecessary $ on short lived sails.

It may be that FT10 owners in Oz need to make a national change to the OD spec to allow a second heavy weather jib. It would be better if the global owners association recognised that this is a real issue for many FT10 owners and allowed a class jib for heavy conditions. If the Owners asociation or Hiptrader don't like either of these ideas then perhaps we need to organise an Australian Owners Association as a separate entity to the US based group with it's own rules.

Sparky
FT10 #54

[GybeSet®]

wouldn't the AUS guys just need to legitimise the (much talked about) U.S. 'passage' or 'phrf' sail option then. that j105 like recognition for phrf, not really such a wholesale 'outlaw' move?
given that it is still on the table , who knows

wtf is OD anyway, ppl are fairing in keel junctions aren't they ??

[Clewless]

Jay, Spaarky,

In 25+, do you think you will go with a heavier cloth, flatter cut jib or go down in sail area? My concern is if the jib SA goes down by much, you may start an unbalanced sail plan....

Unfortunately, we have only sail it to the high teens, so we cannot really tell.

Jay -- is the mast tip falling off nicely to spill some air automatically?

Clew

[Bob Perry]

Clew: I don't think unbalancing the sail plan is an issue. When the bat is pressed hard the chance of losing helm feel is remote.

[EWS]

I personally think it's the way to go (2 jibs). I also believe that the sail should be less in SA. For those in the US say So Cal for example we will use the standard jib 95% of the time and will have a relatively fresh #4 that spends most of it's life in the bag but available if needed. For those in AUS / San Fran etc......the percentages may be flipped. As long as the purchase limits are reasonable the sail that is used at the lesser pecentage would be a sail that doesn't need replacement annually and could possibly be stretched 3-4 years depending on material. I think the proper #4 would be smaller in SA with a short luff and strop to make up the difference to lower the center of effort of the jib area ala Melges 32's and Mumm 30's.

Here you can see the difference between the m32's

Melges 32 standard jib SA = 230sf , #4 = 134sf

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[H20]

I personally think it's the way to go (2 jibs). I also believe that the sail should be less in SA. For those in the US say So Cal for example we will use the standard jib 95% of the time and will have a relatively fresh #4 that spends most of it's life in the bag but available if needed. For those in AUS / San Fran etc......the percentages may be flipped. As long as the purchase limits are reasonable the sail that is used at the lesser pecentage would be a sail that doesn't need replacement annually and could possibly be stretched 3-4 years depending on material. I think the proper #4 would be smaller in SA with a short luff and strop to make up the difference to lower the center of effort of the jib area ala Melges 32's and Mumm 30's.

Here you can see the difference between the m32's

Melges 32 standard jib SA = 230sf , #4 = 134sf

I wonder how that would work with this style furler. Maybe you could get horizontal battens (or no battens) and just drop the thing at the top mark. Hey then you could frac it.

[EWS]

It would be the same as the normal jib.........jib battens parallel to the luff........same concept......smaller jib

[sam_crocker]

Nearly a year ago several of us Aussies urged the class association to allow some kind of heavy weather headsail due to the conditions that we experience on a routine basis.

..........

It may be that FT10 owners in Oz need to make a national change to the OD spec to allow a second heavy weather jib. It would be better if the global owners association recognised that this is a real issue for many FT10 owners and allowed a class jib for heavy conditions. If the Owners asociation or Hiptrader don't like either of these ideas then perhaps we need to organise an Australian Owners Association as a separate entity to the US based group with it's own rules.

I thought the association agreed to allow a smaller jib for heavy weather, and it didn't count against the class inventory? Or was I mistaken?

[zanderjf]

They did, but then hiptrader set the rules for the first 100 boats

[Bob Perry]

It's ridiculous to think the ideal jib size for Puget Sound will be the correct jib for Perth.