1005 replies to this topic

[b_pattison]

My 'guess" is that the Oz jib will be a meter shorter on the luff and a half a meter or so on the foot, raising the clew to sheet properly, giving you about an 87% L.P. Hollow leech with the option of battens as I don't think you'd furl this one because when you are on your side with the kite flogging you'll probably want to tug the jib in to help get the bow down. But battens become a personal choice...
It would be designed with more headstay sag in mind, slightly flatter but not at the expense of keeping the luff grunty.

As for jib sizes/number for the class I still think that this is going to take a year of sailing for folks to think about, optimize and see what's what. The tuning today will not be the tuning a year from now, as everyone will be on upward learning curve. To set this stuff in stone is dangerous at this point in the development. A perceived need for a particular sail today will change over time and the 'optimum' is not understood, so it's best to set it safe and revisit the issue as it develops. Look to other one design classes that have same size jibs but those that are clearly 'heavy' and 'light' in cut and construction as a case in point. Alternatively, for Cazza and Jaymac both of which have windy seasons, a smaller jib may be crucial to performance.

Again, looking to the future, I'd expect to see some combination of the above as the class develops.

b pattison

[jaymac]

The standard jib supplied is not just big but is very full close to the luff, note shadows on pics from Puget. To add extra reef points on the main or to look for head twist does nothing to correct this 4" of extra cloth. The forward fullness of the jib unbalances the boat and we still have a little lee helm.
The boat sails so well in sub 15kts that it would be criminal to take a knife to it.
Panthera is just about unsailable in plus 20kts even reefed with 7 strong and able Aussies. We have tried a few borrowed sails around the club (some flat and some small) and have now made up my mind, without regard for Class rules.
I have ordered a No 3, a metre shorter on the luff, short footed, high clewed, hollow leach without battens...in carbon. Delivery of this sail is three to four weeks away.
Meanwhile we will not race the boat on a formal basis, but drag racing is on. With 6 out of the next 7 days forecasted to be over 20kts, note "www.seabreeze.com.au", we will set the big red with Brickland Landing close abeam and run to Foam buoy (4 nm maybe) against the stop watch. We might open a register of recorded times for any boat over that distance and have a Drag party at the end of the season.

The weather forecast gives no sign of plus 25kts, we now feel ready to give Panthera a real boot in 26 to 28 tws and watch her fly, will call the photographers in for that one.

[SSSail]

Panthera is just about unsailable in plus 20kts even reefed with 7 strong and able Aussies.

Jay:
I am looking forward to hear how the small jib works. Sounds like a good idea.

if you get a chance - I have a specific question . I would be interested to hear a bit more about what you mean by "unsailable".
We had one day of 20+ sailing here in Seatle and had a hard time pointing any closer than 40-45 degrees AWA. But, with the reef we felt okay at all angles below 40. By saying unsailable are you meaning she won't go upwind well?

scott

[jaymac]

Jay:
I am looking forward to hear how the small jib works. Sounds like a good idea.

if you get a chance - I have a specific question . I would be interested to hear a bit more about what you mean by "unsailable".
We had one day of 20+ sailing here in Seatle and had a hard time pointing any closer than 40-45 degrees AWA. But, with the reef we felt okay at all angles below 40. By saying unsailable are you meaning she won't go upwind well?

scott

I think that I got the words wrong , unraceable would be a better term. In this respect the boat is not competitive with other boats that have spent time adressing their strong windward performance. I am quite relaxed about the potential of the Tiger to fly upwind in a blow, it is just that other boats have improved over many years and we have just started.

[Bob Perry]

Jaymac: many thanks for keeping us updated on your progress. Your input at this stage is extremely valuable. Keep the reports coming please.

[Strobe]

Royal Perth Yacht Club Results for 20/12/2006
I have just read the results fromRoyal Perth Yacht Club for Wednesday and see that Jay had his first win on handicap and 3rd boat across the line behind 2 bakewell-white 36s.
Well done Jay look forward to that sail with you when I can find time to get to Perth.
I have tried to put a link for everyone to see. Hope it works?
Does someone know what the weather was like.
Strobe
No 77

[nroose]

Royal Perth Yacht Club Results for 20/12/2006
I have just read the results fromRoyal Perth Yacht Club for Wednesday and see that Jay had his first win on handicap and 3rd boat across the line behind 2 bakewell-white 36s.
Well done Jay look forward to that sail with you when I can find time to get to Perth.
I have tried to put a link for everyone to see. Hope it works?
Does someone know what the weather was like.
Strobe
No 77

found web site that says it was 20kts max thursday in perth.

http://www.wundergro...eq_statename=NA

[gbm]

found web site that says it was 20kts max thursday in perth.

http://www.wundergro...eq_statename=NA

wind Melvile Water Perth 20th dec 2006

The max gust was ~ 17 when they would have been out on the at ~ 4.30 Wednesday and 5 min average was 13,

Well done Jay, however when you look at the elapsed times they were just over 6 mins from the first BW36. in a 90min race.

[Bob Perry]

Man, that is sure one nice Christmas present.
Many thanks Jay and a very Happy Christmas to you.

[FatimaRules]

Well Perth was my next stop on the World Tour, and I managed to hook up with Jaymac, who extremely kindly took me out for a sail. So here's a few comments for anyone interested. (by the way I'm an enthusiastic long term watcher very possibly depositor but yet a bit of a cynic!)

Well first of all the boats a beauty. Top marks on design an build. The finishing is really good, and feels like an expensive boat. The freeboard is much more than I was expecting. The cabin top height looks great and works well, the window looks great and even the grab bars are good. Jaymac has added some grab handles/foot bars on the bridge deck and deck edge by the winches, which I firmly recommend people copy. The cockpit is HUGE. She's definately a race boat inside and out.

I had a little helm and she felt well balanced and responsive. She heals quickly but then stops. And when you can get the sails balanced and drawing (see below) she plenty quick. The control lines run well and are well specked. We fiddled with the tracks and it's not a big deal that they are not line adjustable.

The rig is big and looks well finished and plenty sturdy enough. The hardware is well specked although a few things might be a little light if anyone wants to take this offshore (which I think it would stand) I particularly thought the secondary winches were a little underspecked, and the jammers weren't good.

And now the bad bits.
The tiller is terrible. It bounces around as the boat is sailing, and I wouldn't like to be the one trying to place that boat on a 15+knot downhill run. Anyone sailing this boat in anger is going to need to get that fixed/changed. The annoying thing is it would only take an extra bar welded across the curve to strengthen it up.

But most importantly the sails are RUBBISH! It is absolutely astounding. These sails are one size fits all, but we had the boat out in 15knots and a bit more, and it was absolutely bloody impossible to get the boat balanced and drawing. Jib is big and too deep for any sort of breeze, and the main just hangs there and stetches. Aweful.

And the thing that struck me is people have been saying 'well it doesn't really matter because they are one design sails so veryone will have the same'. Well I'm afraid you are living in cloud cuckoo land. Any one design racing in over 15 knots (which is most of the sailing world away from parts of the US and Asia) is just going to be a whole lot of flogging sails, boats on their ears, and crew weight absolutely maxed out. Rubbish. Is anyone in doubt how bad I think this is?

So in conclusion, the boat is absolutely great. It has made my mind up to stop looking for an alternative and get our little syndicate off the ground, but add the cost of a full set of sails to any budget. As Jaymac said to me, there are issues, but none of them stem from the builders trying to make things cheaper, and all of them can be sorted.

I won't be holding out for one-design racing, until the sails are revised.

Thanks Jaymac for a great afternoon sail.

[Clewless]

FR,
Welcome to the madness!

Clew

[Heaven can wait]

It should be a good comparison,given the A10s no longer considered a light weight.A better one of course would be a Hick30,ala Very Tasty.

Do any of you guys know where the T980 is Racing out of, Remmie, Glug?, now there would be a match - up I'd like to see.

[Code Z]

Do any of you guys know where the T980 is Racing out of, Remmie, Glug?, now there would be a match - up I'd like to see.

Currently parked at East Fremantle Yacht Club - Hopefully comes to Freshwater Bay Yacht Club Royal Perth have a wednesday afternoon race - no spinakers - They should take it down there Wednesday - if they need crew i am happy to help out - Woops this is Flying Tiger Anarchy - SORRY

[Frakka]

Ziggy, is that you..........?

 Ziggy.jpg   105.7K   22 downloads

[miltwempley]

The standard jib supplied is not just big but is very full close to the luff, note shadows on pics from Puget. To add extra reef points on the main or to look for head twist does nothing to correct this 4" of extra cloth. The forward fullness of the jib unbalances the boat and we still have a little lee helm.
The boat sails so well in sub 15kts that it would be criminal to take a knife to it.
Panthera is just about unsailable in plus 20kts even reefed with 7 strong and able Aussies. We have tried a few borrowed sails around the club (some flat and some small) and have now made up my mind, without regard for Class rules.
I have ordered a No 3, a metre shorter on the luff, short footed, high clewed, hollow leach without battens...in carbon. Delivery of this sail is three to four weeks away.
Meanwhile we will not race the boat on a formal basis, but drag racing is on. With 6 out of the next 7 days forecasted to be over 20kts, note "www.seabreeze.com.au", we will set the big red with Brickland Landing close abeam and run to Foam buoy (4 nm maybe) against the stop watch. We might open a register of recorded times for any boat over that distance and have a Drag party at the end of the season.

The weather forecast gives no sign of plus 25kts, we now feel ready to give Panthera a real boot in 26 to 28 tws and watch her fly, will call the photographers in for that one.

Have you taken delivery of the new jib? Any report?

[Frakka]

Have you taken delivery of the new jib? Any report?

Ran into Jay's brother yesterday after the wednesday arvo race. They have a new #3 described as: from NP, black and not dacron ?. See the results below, bit messy but they won on handicap and only beaten over the line by the two F36's. I put the boat types in to give an idea (comment by me).

Boat No Boat Name Skipper H'cap Elapsed Time Corrected Time Over Line On H'cap Finish Code Class

AUS12 Panthera J.Macfarlane .808 1:40:07 1:20:54 3 1 FIN FT10
R267 Elusive R.Brisbane Cohen .715 1:54:13 1:21:40 13 2 FIN Farr 9.2
R920 Equalizer A.Coutts .729 1:52:05 1:21:43 11 3 FIN R6 Farr 9.2
R Six R.Rodereda .872 1:34:01 1:21:59 1 4 FIN R33 Foundation 36 (fast and well sailed)
The Lady in Red K.Roberts .72 1:54:31 1:22:27 15 5 FIN R797 Metre boat
Fleur De Lys N.Watson .778 1:46:55 1:23:11 5 6 FIN R28 S 9.7
By & Large D.Pearce .852 1:37:46 1:23:18 2 7 FIN R145 Foundation 36
Farrari D.Mitchell .729 1:54:28 1:23:27 14 8 FIN AUS620 Farr 9.2
The Croc N.Loftus .766 1:49:08 1:23:36 10 9 FIN R99 Etchell
Distraction B.Black .794 1:45:21 1:23:39 4 10 FIN R90 Adams 10
Box of Tricks M.Box .731 1:54:55 1:24:00 16 11 FIN R21 Bavaria 39 (booze bus)
Time Lord T.Posma .779 1:48:17 1:24:21 9 12 FIN R48 Young Rocket 31
Farrfetched L.Hoffman .715 1:58:04 1:24:25 17 13 FIN R555 Farr 9.2
Men Behaving Badly D.Bradford/S.Hart .791 1:48:06 1:25:30 8 14 FIN R318 Adams 10
Red Fever A.Parolo .799 1:52:33 1:29:56 12 15 FIN R144 Mumm 30 (no comment)
Taworri M.Reid .999 1:47:36 1:47:30 6 16 FIN R59 ??
Panamuna S.Pegrum .999 1:47:47 1:47:41 7 17 FIN R801 Metre boat
Club Boat A.Thomas .773 0:00:00 0:00:00 18= 18= DSQ ??

Report on behalf of the reclusive/elusive Jaymac .

[Strobe]

Has anyoune heard if Jay is taking the boat to Geographe Race Week in late Feb?
Would be great to see it there. If not I will be there next year if mine has arriverd by then.
Cheers
Strobe
No 77

[adrian east sydney]

Has anyone got an update on:

1. Order numbers
2. destinations
3. delivery dates?

How many completed Flying Tigers have been delivered?

I need to make preparations (like everyone else) for next season and would appreciate some input.

Adrian East Sydney
#101

[raff367]

I think in other posts was mentioned that #18 was either ready to be shipped or on its way.
And I heard that #25 could be shipped as early as next month.

[EWS]

#18 was delivered 2 weeks ago to SoCal

[Frakka]

Relevant results from Wednesday arvo race, over the line only, note the times - pretty good improvement:


1. R6 R Six G.Rodereda 1:25:24 F36 fast and well sailed
2. R28 By & Large D.Pearce 1:26:33 F36 no slouch (mostly)
3. R315 Leewana S.Hindmarsh 1:26:51 Mumm30 no slouch
4. AUS12 Panthera J.Macfarlane . 1:27:41 FT10 Jaymac (returned with rudder)
6. SM98 Dark Energy J.Williamson 1:29:26 Thompson 980 new to the boat

btw how do you maintain formatting ?

[nroose]

btw how do you maintain formatting ?

I think the best way is to use an image. This board has no tables. You can change the font to a fixed width font and then use spaces to do the separation so that it ends up looking lined up that would work.

[glug]

Hey Jaymac. Now it sounds like you appear to have solved a lot of your teathing problems, I recon its time to get some pics in a blow. How bout an after work sesh in the seabreeze with a camera boat?

[OzTrax]

 FT10.jpg   188.04K   664 downloadsSeen on the Swan on Wednesday

[OzTrax]

 ft10_2.jpg   189.5K   619 downloadsGetting the hang of this now. thanks for the tutorial Frakka.

[glug]

Ha! I had already written that but thought better of killing one of the more sensible and reasoned threads.

I think the photo catches the main 'mid flog'. The boat in that location would have only just rounded poplar buoy. The main may still be comming in or its just being ragged for a bit.

[Edit] Actually, it looks full. Is it the backstay caught on the leech?

[Strobe]

Is this the new headsail?

[GybeSet®]

I like how the letters on the main are now re - scrabbled for 'down under'

[jaymac]

Falling in love.
Panthera is just beautiful, powered her to windward in 25kts last night, a reef in the main and 9 people on the rail, and then we shook the reef out and she pulled 12.5kts downwind with just 2 sails, drinks and nibbles.
Upwind she was comfortable, dry and handled the medium chop without any fuss or pounding, the hull shape and bow entry is about perfect. With heel induced by too much sheet, she would labour with 6.5 on the log, in a lull when she came upright 7.2 would flash onto the screen.
Out of some 40 odd boat we made time on all of them, including 5 BW36s that started 5 mins in front and finished about 4. We won a bottle of Champagne too!
A new Benny 34.7 started behind us with a powerful set of black sails, her first outing, and not sure where she finished but she looked magnificent and will be quick up wind in a blow.
The 14ft skiff guys will return from the nationals next week and I will have my speed crew back for some pics maybe. Thursday next week looks pretty good
Not taking Panther to Busselton this year...having too much fun on the river. Will crew on another boat maybe.
The new carbon jib is terrific, don't bother to sail in plus 16 without one. The boat is balanced with a little weather helm, reaching speeds do not suffer and it is lovely to use some mainsail up wind too.
I have so much confidence in this boat already, more confidence than I built up in 10 years of my last boat, a Holland 11 m OD. Heavy air sailing was always a worry especially with beginners on the boat. Gybing is a dream instead of a nightmare, and we do not have to go back to pick anyone up either! The obvious strength of the fibre glass hull and deck, coupled with a stiff carbon mast gives the feeling that this boat will stand up to anything.
To hell with it, this boat is worth more, I am going to source a carbon main next week, Panthera deserves the best equipment that money can buy.
Will keep you all posted....Jaymac, AUS 12

[Wess]

Falling in love.
Panthera is just beautiful, powered her to windward in 25kts last night, a reef in the main and 9 people on the rail, and then we shook the reef out and she pulled 12.5kts downwind with just 2 sails, drinks and nibbles.
Upwind she was comfortable, dry and handled the medium chop without any fuss or pounding, the hull shape and bow entry is about perfect. With heel induced by too much sheet, she would labour with 6.5 on the log, in a lull when she came upright 7.2 would flash onto the screen.
Out of some 40 odd boat we made time on all of them, including 5 BW36s that started 5 mins in front and finished about 4. We won a bottle of Champagne too!
A new Benny 34.7 started behind us with a powerful set of black sails, her first outing, and not sure where she finished but she looked magnificent and will be quick up wind in a blow.
The 14ft skiff guys will return from the nationals next week and I will have my speed crew back for some pics maybe. Thursday next week looks pretty good
Not taking Panther to Busselton this year...having too much fun on the river. Will crew on another boat maybe.
The new carbon jib is terrific, don't bother to sail in plus 16 without one. The boat is balanced with a little weather helm, reaching speeds do not suffer and it is lovely to use some mainsail up wind too.
I have so much confidence in this boat already, more confidence than I built up in 10 years of my last boat, a Holland 11 m OD. Heavy air sailing was always a worry especially with beginners on the boat. Gybing is a dream instead of a nightmare, and we do not have to go back to pick anyone up either! The obvious strength of the fibre glass hull and deck, coupled with a stiff carbon mast gives the feeling that this boat will stand up to anything.
To hell with it, this boat is worth more, I am going to source a carbon main next week, Panthera deserves the best equipment that money can buy.
Will keep you all posted....Jaymac, AUS 12

Great post. Nice to see the positive side of things with the boat.

[Clewless]

Falling in love.
Panthera is just beautiful, powered her to windward in 25kts last night, a reef in the main and 9 people on the rail, and then we shook the reef out and she pulled 12.5kts downwind with just 2 sails, drinks and nibbles.
Upwind she was comfortable, dry and handled the medium chop without any fuss or pounding, the hull shape and bow entry is about perfect. With heel induced by too much sheet, she would labour with 6.5 on the log, in a lull when she came upright 7.2 would flash onto the screen.
Out of some 40 odd boat we made time on all of them, including 5 BW36s that started 5 mins in front and finished about 4. We won a bottle of Champagne too!
A new Benny 34.7 started behind us with a powerful set of black sails, her first outing, and not sure where she finished but she looked magnificent and will be quick up wind in a blow.
The 14ft skiff guys will return from the nationals next week and I will have my speed crew back for some pics maybe. Thursday next week looks pretty good
Not taking Panther to Busselton this year...having too much fun on the river. Will crew on another boat maybe.
The new carbon jib is terrific, don't bother to sail in plus 16 without one. The boat is balanced with a little weather helm, reaching speeds do not suffer and it is lovely to use some mainsail up wind too.
I have so much confidence in this boat already, more confidence than I built up in 10 years of my last boat, a Holland 11 m OD. Heavy air sailing was always a worry especially with beginners on the boat. Gybing is a dream instead of a nightmare, and we do not have to go back to pick anyone up either! The obvious strength of the fibre glass hull and deck, coupled with a stiff carbon mast gives the feeling that this boat will stand up to anything.

To hell with it, this boat is worth more, I am going to source a carbon main next week, Panthera deserves the best equipment that money can buy.
Will keep you all posted....Jaymac, AUS 12

Jay,
Nice report.
Even in 10-15kts, we also experienced the same thing will the heel. Boat speed is down half a kt if the rail gets wet but easily gets back to 7.2 kts once the traveller is optimized.
Like to learn more about your heavy air jib design -- it will benefit the SF fleet for sure.
We have also added to our sail inventory on Abacus -- SAer Harry P EP has constructed a beautiful set of sails for us using the latest technology Diax2 LP carbon/aramid. We are still fine-tuning the sails / rig but they look and work very well already.
One note --The builder is closely working with us and other owners in San Diego on upgrading various parts. In fact, all the San Diego boats should have upgraded cassettes in a week or two. We will also be testing out jib halyards and other tweaks. I'll be posting the information on the class e-mail list once I get results.

Keep up with the butt kicking!

Clew
USA008

[Bob Perry]

Jay:
I just called Bill, he's on the road, and read him your recent post.
We both thank you for the support. I am very happy you like the boat.
This week on SA has been a bit shy on support but your post speaks volumes.
Keep on winning.

[d'ranger]

What happened to Chicken Little?

it sure got quiet around here........

[Bob Perry]

I noticed this phenominon some time ago d'ranger.

[30Man]

Ah Bob, don't let that OTHER thread get you down. It is mostly a few idiots having some fun and a few competitors trying to throw a wrench into the works.

However, let's hope like hell the new gudgeon hold up REALLY well or we are all doomed to read hysterics forever.

[PHM]

Jaymac,

Thanks for the great posts. I can't wait to get my FT (#99). All of us later depositors owe you, Clew and the other "early adopters" a big debt of gratitude for working through the teething problems.

Bill and Bob,

With this project you have done something that is truly innovative and remarkable, in very little time. Innovation never comes easy or without bumps in the road. Thank you (and your staff) for hanging in there and working through the thousands of details and problems encountered when bringing any novel product to market. I suspect that most people who have never developed and manufactured a complex and innovative product have no idea what an accomplishment it is to get to this point. I do. You have much to be proud of.

[miltwempley]

Hey, this is a feel good thread... so much nicer in Australia!

[PHM]

Hey, this is a feel good thread... so much nicer in Australia!

And there is truly so much to feel good about with this project. I develop novel products (nothing to do with sailing) and have successfully launched a number of them. I know from experience that every possible complaint gets airtime but the good things sometimes don't, no matter how good the product is. That's just part of the business.

End of hijack and back to the Aussies--my post to Bob and Bill probably belonged in the other thread but I didn't want to go anywhere near that thread....I agree, nicer in Australia.

[Bob Perry]

Thanks guys. As an ex-pat Australian I agree it is nicer in Australia. I stay away from that other thread. There are far too many personal issues being excersized there.

[olaf hart]

Thanks guys. As an ex-pat Australian I agree it is nicer in Australia. I stay away from that other thread. There are far too many personal issues being excersized there.

Should that be exorcised?

[GRUMPY]

Thanks guys. As an ex-pat Australian I agree it is nicer in Australia. I stay away from that other thread. There are far too many personal issues being excersized there.

I'll be buggered! An Aussie? How bout that??

[Frakka]

Should that be exorcised?

I think it might now be “excised”.

I'll be buggered! An Aussie? How bout that??

and btw Grumps, looks like you’ll roll over ten grand on Australia Day, congrats.

[GRUMPY]

And it's a Friday as well! Classic bit of timing wouldn't you say.

[olaf hart]

And it's a Friday as well! Classic bit of timing wouldn't you say.

Que?

Oh right, posts.

[Bob Perry]

I went to the same school in Ashfield, Sydney that the boys from AC/DC went to. I'm kind of proud of that.

[olaf hart]

A Westie? I went to school at Lewisham.

Go the Magpies.

[Bob Perry]

Olaf:
We lived in a flat in Ashfield but most of my family was in Paramatta. My great, great, great, great grandmother, Catherine Neale was on the very first shipload of Irish "rebels" shipped to Australia where she married an English convict. I have quite the pedigree.

[olaf hart]

I grew up in Ashbury, just next door.
Raced VJ's and 12 footers out of Greenwich after we moved to North Sydney when I was 14.
Cant claim any convict ancestry though, we only go back to the potato famine.

[Strobe]

Driving to Perth tonight. Getting first look at Panthera tomorrow can't what to check it out. Will be trying to cacth up with Jay at the same time.
Will let you know what I think (for what its worth) on Tuesday when I return from Perth.
Cheers
Strobe

[F15 AUS]

So Jay.

Have you got any pics of the boat trucking on a kite reach in 20+ yet? Cant wait to see the spray shooting sidewase and the rooster tail off the back

Get the pics NOW. (lol)

[glug]

BUMP

Jay. Pics of your boat boogying have been too long coming! The people need photos and you happen to live in one of the most consistently windy places on earth.

If you want me to organise an experienced crew to go out with you one afternoon in a seabreeze just say the word. Nobody wants to break the boat. Just take it through its paces! We'll get a support boat and get some good pics. Frakka can vouch for me. What do you say?

Glug

[F15 AUS]

Please please please.

We need pics soon or we might go mad

[GybeSet®]

.
or ?

you may hafta come up with something with a lil more 'impact' or leverage than that one

[F15 AUS]

No Underconstand gybe.

Can you please explane what you ment. (Im honastly not sure).

[GRUMPY]

No Underconstand gybe.

Can you please explane what you ment. (Im honastly not sure).

Much easier to decipher the gibberish if you use the ignore button mate.

[F15 AUS]

Your a brave man grumps. I dont need to ignor gybe as he is a good bloke. I met him a ABRW last year and got on well with him.

I just find a few posts a bit hard to understand.

[GRUMPY]

Mate, you're not on your Pat Malone there.

[IANLOD]

Ziggy Stardust and I have had some brief discussions about organising an Aussie FT10 Association.

As a first step, if you are an Australian who has a deposit on an FT-10 or if you are a serious potential buyer in Australia would you please contact me. Let me know if you are a depositor or an interested party (or something else, god forbid). I guess for the moment I'd be happy to add any NZ people to our list as well, until someone in the land of the long white cloud asks to take over their own association (or until we decide that a combined AUS/NZ association is a good thing).

I think there are some very good things we can start to do - many of which have already been mentioned in the main owners association topic - for example, we can contact Tohatsu and discuss an association price for motors, we can make sure that Aussie / NZ sailmakers know we're here, we can get some competitive activity going re: Trailers, we can begin to socialise the existance of the FT10 to some of the state associations and major regattas and we can contact AYF and begin to get the ball rolling with them if necessary. Some of us may wish to work with AYF/RORC toward an early IRC rating (and some of us may think thats a bad thing).

Anyway, communicating and sharing info will be a good thing. I believe that there are something like 10 or 12 FT-10's already on deposit for Australia/New Zealand at this time. 5 of them are in one city in Oz so we may have a viable early one design fleet up and running this year.

Once we get a bit more organised we'll schedule some online meetings so we can discuss our ideas and let the global owners association know our thoughts and any regional issues that we wish to pursue.

Send me a PM via SA with your name, email address, hull number if you wish to disclose it and any other info or ideas that you think will be helpful.

I'll be happy to do early organisation until we formally get together and consider who can and should do what.

[IANLOD]

Am an interested FT 10 buyer from Royal Melbourne.

Have been trying to get in touch with Frakka & Jaymac in Perth so We can have a look at his boat but not having much success with this SA site in sending messages direct??

If someone has their contact details could they email they contact me

Thanks Ian

[StayinStrewn]

try calling DA MAN direct....info is listed in the 'how to order' pinned at top of these threads...otherwise, keep trying to PM those guys, they should be able to get your message.

[IANLOD]

try calling DA MAN direct....info is listed in the 'how to order' pinned at top of these threads...otherwise, keep trying to PM those guys, they should be able to get your message.

Frakka has replied thanks for the help

[StayinStrewn]

Frakka has replied thanks for the help

speaking of Frakka and Jaymac, any big wind shots from Aussie??

[glug]

Frakka, Jaymac, a bunch of 14ft sailors and I went sailing on the Flying Tiger last night for a helicopter shoot. We were hoping for a blow, and we got it. Too much actually - 25 to 30 knots with gusts much higher. We got pumped. Only had the standard masthead kite and it was absolutley honking. Stay tuned for seeing some shots of a tiger in a blow. I hope its well edited, because we spent a fair bit of time with her keel out of the water!

[BarePoles]

Dude, your giving me blue balls...where are the pics?

[TheBoathouse]

Frakka, Jaymac, a bunch of 14ft sailors and I went sailing on the Flying Tiger last night for a helicopter shoot. We were hoping for a blow, and we got it. Too much actually - 25 to 30 knots with gusts much higher. We got pumped. Only had the standard masthead kite and it was absolutley honking. Stay tuned for seeing some shots of a tiger in a blow. I hope its well edited, because we spent a fair bit of time with her keel out of the water!

Pics or it never happened!

[glug]

Ha! Thought that would get your attention. Unfortunately I have no control over the photos. Jaymacs son was in the 'copter taking shots.

I was asked to go for a yacht by Frakkka 2 days ago. I haven't sailed with Jay or the on the tiger so cancelled a work meeting to get the chance to have a ride in a blow. When I heard there'd be a helo flying around I was even more stoked. I zoomed there from work and promptly realised I'd left my sailing gear at home. Scrounged in my car and found some shorts and a T-shirt - no shoes, no gloves, no jacket. Doh! Once we got on the water Jaymac nominated me to do bow because I "looked the youngest". Thanks maaate.

We sailed upwind in winds consistently over 25knots with gusts to 30. We had a reefed main and Jay's bulletproof no 2. After struggling for a while we got her in the groove and she sailed upwind nicely. I snuck back to the helm (as you do) and tried the helm for a short while and found her very light although not enough whether helm for my liking - probably something to do with the ragged out main!

We met the helicopter at the top of the river. I don't think the question of kite or not to kite was ever asked. The buzzing helicopter probably helped that call. I hooked her up, we hoisted and after some trouble she was up and flying. It was a very short time with the kite up. It was just too windy. That very fine bow is not very forgiving for burying the nose. We were doing over 16 knots with it up tho, before we stuffed it and went down hard. We went through the premeditated broach checklist - vang off, rag kite, 2m of halyard - still not upright? blow all halyard, drag her in and set up for another hoist. The call was made to leave it down. Once the kite was down we got up to 14knots.

The boat was humming a fair bit - keel alingment? rudder alignment? Dont know. Had a peek down the outboard well at 13knots and there was some water in there - but not sloshing which would have indicated a poor seal. The rig and kite took a pounding, but held strong.

Lessons learned? We were a bit suss on reefing the main with a masthead kite, I think it probably would have been better with a full main? Also the boat has no provision for a fractional kite. Maybe add a halyard or add a choker to the masthead halyard for us West Aussies - or am i being a girl?

Thanks for the ride Jaymac. Lets do it again in say 20 knots!

Glug Glug Glug

[d'ranger]

stoked really describes that - way to go. Hope to see the pics tomorrow evening when I get in.

[EWS]

awesome......keep'em coming.......would love to see some with the boat pointed in the right direction with the kite drawing.....

[Christian]

Hope the esky was safe

Good times

[Phil]

More importantly from Mr Perrys view...no water down below.

Hope to catch up with the FT10 in person this week. Flying in Sunday arvo,see the other WA thread.

[locomotive]

Compliments of JayMac and Son

Attached Files

•  01Panthera_.jpg   68.89K   244 downloads
•  02Panthera_.jpg   68.3K   259 downloads
•  03Panthera_.jpg   58.25K   205 downloads
•  04Panthera_.jpg   66.85K   305 downloads
•  05Panthera_.jpg   53.83K   218 downloads
•  06Panthera_.jpg   62.46K   165 downloads
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•  08Panthera_.jpg   66.79K   177 downloads
•  09Panthera_.jpg   62.81K   164 downloads
•  10Panthera_.jpg   52.95K   151 downloads

[Yaz]

Anybody thinking of going offshore on their FT needs to look at these shots. I'm not saying the FT is not capable (although it was not designed as an offshore boat), but you may want to think twice before flying the kite in 25 - 30 true half way to Hawaii.

[GybeSet®]

and this ocean is called the Swan R. ?

real ocean might be kinder

I think it's big enough, and he's bearing away into the back of one,

[nroose]

25 - 30 true half way to Hawaii.

Really? What year was that?

[Bill E Goat]

Nosedive in flat water - sign of a good boat

[Christian]

Compliments of JayMac and Son

Nice nosedive in relatively flat water - even with a reefed main. Not much lift from that assy.....

[CazzaRanda]

Compliments of JayMac and Son

Hires pics on the class website:
http://www.ft10class...ats/012/012.htm


Cazza

[EWS]

might just be the shot but it doesn't look like the pole is fully extended

[sam_crocker]

So, where's JayMac? We can see where he was, but being the shy retiring person that he is, he's hiding from the heli-paparazzi. You can see some pink inside the great waterfall on the lower side - that's him! Most impressively, he's still holding the tiller, so everything is still under control!

I see the bensons are just about right for this kind of sailing. Who needs another?

[H20]

I thought the drill was EVERYBODY aft and yell as loud as you can. At least she held up nicely. Maybe kite halyard in another foot? I know in that breeze on a mum we would all be aft, and yelling. That water was getting choppy at a very rapid rate. Cool shots. Film at 11?

[Holokai]

Where are your lifelines??!! Do you guys have some kind of death wish???

Holokai

[Yaz]

Really? What year was that?

'97 had a bit of breeze. I know a sustained 25 to 30 is not common in Transpac, but sudden squalls to 30 happen, and when they hit at night things can get very interesting. We don't know enough yet to make generalizations about the "heavy weather" traits of the FT, but if nosediving in relatively flat water is one of them surfing offshore will certainly be exciting, if nothing else. Perhaps the folks on Panthera could delve into this a bit. Was this a freak dive or a general tendancy? Was the chute too big/cut wrong for the conditions? Other than not carrying the chute when the wind is up, what would you do differently next time?

[Frakka]

Just saw the pic’s, certainly looks a lot quieter from the chopper. That water may look flat but it wasn’t away from the western shore. Doing nearly 17kts when the pole went under, I was yelling run awaaaaay!!! but IMHO the fully submerged long fine bow took over the steering, big kite, jib fully drawing and maybe weight not far enough back. Just guessing, I think about 500kg crew weight. Doing 14kts under two sails tight reaching, about 7.2kts upwind in flat water under the western shore, out in the open water and waves, doing well to keep it on its feet in the gusts and maintain 6+kts. Upwind the helm has no helm it is so light, even in that wind strength (25-30 gusting mid 30’s). Thanks for the awesome sail Jay, next one 20-25kts will be ok by me.

Edit: if you average the wind described variously by us you will get the drift, but Warren getting on the boat said it was 37kts as he left the office, true story.

[glug]

might just be the shot but it doesn't look like the pole is fully extended

I was waiting for that. It slipped a bit and I couldn't get it back out under load.

[glug]

Where are your lifelines??!! Do you guys have some kind of death wish???

Holokai

Here in WA we don't need no schtinkin lifelines. Most of our keelboats don't use them. However, I'll admit that for the first time ever I wouldn't have minded them!

[glug]

Tiger photo shoot

I thought I might publish the unauthorised, unabridged pics of JayMac's photo shoot yesterday, just so he can't destroy the evidence.

If it's blowing 30 knots, and you've got a few 14ft Skiff guys aboard, the best plan is to leave the kite ashore!

So, where's JayMac? We can see where he was, but being the shy retiring person that he is, he's hiding from the heli-paparazzi. You can see some pink inside the great waterfall on the lower side - that's him! Most impressively, he's still holding the tiller, so everything is still under control!

Foot chocks work!

[glug]

Quote from the West Australian thread. Might have been even windier?

hahaha

48 knots at Fremantle SC.

[glug]

We don't know enough yet to make generalizations about the "heavy weather" traits of the FT, but if nosediving in relatively flat water is one of them surfing offshore will certainly be exciting, if nothing else. Perhaps the folks on Panthera could delve into this a bit. Was this a freak dive or a general tendancy? Was the chute too big/cut wrong for the conditions? Other than not carrying the chute when the wind is up, what would you do differently next time?

You hit it on the head. We don't know enough yet and didn't have much of a chance to learn more. More weight back would have helped. A fractional kite was the order of the day, particularly with a reefed main. We also didn't have the boat under the mast when that gust hit, obviously when sailing DW in a blow if you don't get your bow down in time your gone, and we then caught the wave in front at the same time, sending us over violently! Once we reset the boat I was keen to get the kite up again but mindful that we didn't want to go breaking Jay's brand new toy.

I guess final word is that last season I was on a Mumm 30 on the same stretch of water, in about the same breeze, and after sailing half the downwind leg doing everything right (all crew behind the skipper etc) we stuffed it down a trough and almost cartweeled the thing. I was on the helm and had the boat under the mast and up till then was under control. I was pretty satisfied there was no crew error. Just sometimes you're gonna go!

p.s. I think I may have to swap names with Jay now! Glug Glug Glug!

[gbm]

Glug,

There are a few major differences between when you wiped out on the Mumm and the nose dive on the FT10.
I think I can remember the day you put the mumm on her side, there were a lot of boats out, digging big holes and you lost it quite close to a few lead bellies who were hell bent on loosing their rigs and digging bloody big holes!!! this would have made a BIG diffrence. when the FT10 was out you had the river to yourselves (from the photos anyway).

Also my experence with A sails, if you haven't got the pole all they way out it makes a hell of a difference. The pole fully extended will help lift the bow and if it isn't then you get very little lift (hence a big nose dove)

And as you mentioned above the pole was not fully extended.

I think it would have been a lot different with a full main, someone on the vang and the jib off or at least in someone's hand so they could let it go if needed. All these things would add up to making a nosedive inevitable - not a matter of if but just a matter of when.

But great shots

Cheers

GBM

[glug]

Take your point GBM and pretty much agree. These shots will get analised by every pro and punter for their two cents. The reality is that we never really got the chance to settle. The pole slipped in on the hoist and good luck getting that baby back out under load - even if you rag it. 30+knots is a lot of wind for a masthead kite on a semi displacement hull and getting the keel sunburnt is not an unexpected result.

One or two more runs and we would have been sorted. When we had a drink afterwoods we resolved to get her back out in a blow and get it right. Not sure if Jaymac will cough up for another Helo ride for you tho Richmac!

However, at the end of the day it was the pics of the FT10 flying and it was that we got. Some excellent photos! We could have censored the broach shots but I gotta say that is one of the coolest broach shots I've ever seen! Well done to Richmac for taking the photos - it looked bloody scary hanging out the side of the chopper like that!

[jaymac]

Lessons to learn from a strong wind sail.

1. A good photographer can make up for lot of bad sailing, Thanks Rich.
2. A crew of experts does not make and expert crew without an expert skipper.
3. If the Skipper has spent all summer windsurfing, experience of Kites and crews is suspect.
4. The vang ropes should have been cut as soon as we left the dock.
5. Reefed mains don't do to well with mast head kites.
6. Ladder foot rests are needed to keep the driver and throttleman on the boat.
7. Lots of practice required between sheethand & helmsman to keep the bow above water.
8. Lots more practice required in 20/25kts (only sailed once) before trying 30+kts.

The good news is that the pics are great with Toms short video to come, the music is good anyway.
The boat seems to be able to take anything thrown at it without damage.
The Skipper got away with only two big bruises, one to his knee and one to his Ego!

Thanks for sailing guys.... Jay

[Brettmx]

Tiger photo shoot

I thought I might publish the unauthorised, unabridged pics of JayMac's photo shoot yesterday, just so he can't destroy the evidence.

If it's blowing 30 knots, and you've got a few 14ft Skiff guys aboard, the best plan is to leave the kite ashore!

So, where's JayMac? We can see where he was, but being the shy retiring person that he is, he's hiding from the heli-paparazzi. You can see some pink inside the great waterfall on the lower side - that's him! Most impressively, he's still holding the tiller, so everything is still under control!

You went out 14 ft skiff guys. You're lucky the rig is still standing. You should have probably told them that despite having a keel the boat does tip over, although they'd probably just think you can tip it right back over. Any of them mention something about foils on the rudder. Put some trapezes on the boat and you'd have something.

[Bob Perry]

Thanks to Jaymac the the crew for providing some exciting pics.

[tweaker]

nice pics! great to see the tiger flying.

[Phil]

Jaymac,crawled all over the boat the other day. Left my card under the hatch,so at least if someone queried,you knew who. Thanks for leaving the boat open allowing tis old fart to have a gander.

Bob,boat looks good,just not in Perth long enough to have a sail. Guess I'll have to wait till one arrives in Sydney.

[Bob Perry]

Phil:
could you do me a favor in Sydney? Please check and see if my old "Uncle" Bill Solomons is still around. He was a very active racing sailor years ago but I have not spoken to him since I left Sydney in 1957. He could be dead by now. He was known for racing 8 meters as I recall, Saskia Cup? He was from the wealthy side of the clan.

[Phil]

Phil:
could you do me a favor in Sydney? Please check and see if my old "Uncle" Bill Solomans is still around. He was a very active racing sailor years ago but I have not spoken to him since I left Sydney in 1957. He could be dead by now. He was known for racing 8 meters as I recall, Saskia Cup? He was from the wealthy side of the clan.

Will ask around BP.Chances re someone from the Alfreds may know,he was along time member there. I'm currently interstate and I'll ask my Dad when I get home,he knows him too.

[Bob Perry]

Phil:
I'd appreciate that. As far as I know he has no idea who I am anymore or what I do. I can't find any other relatives with that surname so he must have been one of those Australian "uncles". He was at least a generation younger than my folks so he may still be kicking.

[Bryce]

Phil:
could you do me a favor in Sydney? Please check and see if my old "Uncle" Bill Solomans is still around. He was a very active racing sailor years ago but I have not spoken to him since I left Sydney in 1957. He could be dead by now. He was known for racing 8 meters as I recall, Saskia Cup? He was from the wealthy side of the clan.

Found this Bob... scan down to article entitled 'Barranjoey comes out of retirement...' It's a couple of years old...

http://www.afloat.co...le/1003589.html

Cheers...

[GybeSet®]

and search in relation to Starboat sailing in AUS Bill, i think he's the only enthusiast outside the cyclic Olympic candidates.