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#1 Editor

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 04:11 AM

From the front page...

Our friends at Velocitek are releasing a new compass / speedo based largely on input from the SA forum. Velocitek claims their new product dubbed the Speedcompass offers a faster update rate and better accuracy than a magnetic compass. It comes with a two year warranty and uses easily replaceable AA batteries. A built in tilt sensor allows it to work as a speedometer when mounted upside down. Check it out at www.sailgps.com and give Velocitek a piece of your mind here.

07/19/06

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#2 GRUMPY

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 04:20 AM

How much? Dimensions?

#3 Monkey

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 04:22 AM

I like everything except the $595 part.

#4 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 05:00 AM

How much? Dimensions?


Case Dimensions: 8.25" x 4.5" x 2" (210mm x 114mm x51mm)
Viewing area: 6" x 3" (152mm x 76mm)
Note: The display can be easily read from over 60ft (20m) away.

Price: USD $595
Free shipping worldwide.

#5 GRUMPY

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 05:05 AM

$US? AUD = 0.74 US = $800 aussie! Walks away....sad. Probably won't get them in Australia for less tham a grand

#6 Carboninit

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:10 AM

Bring the price down ,they will sell. Whats the price of simular products on the market?

#7 indicative

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:14 AM

you could make one your self for about $300 and make it do other fancy stuff

#8 Recidivist

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:18 AM

I like the fact that these guys are trying to do something different, but the practicality seems a bit weak. What's with having to turn the device upside down to read speed? At any given time you can have either speed or heading, but not both. You have to be able to get to the device and flip it to change displays. If you need 20m readability, you're on a big boat that will have "proper" instruments. If this is intended for dinghies, cats etc, just when will you get a chance to change displays during a race? And is it readable from both tacks? What's the angle of readability each side of straight ahead?

Not knocking the effort, just trying to work out the useability.

R

#9 Merrill Levi

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:20 AM

based largely on input from the SA forum

love the idea, hate the price

would change name from 'Speedcompass' to 'SpeedAsset' that way the acronym works !

#10 Betty's Boy

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:26 AM

Wasn't there a discussion here on SA about making an alternative to the Tacktick Race Master a while ago? This seems nice, but it is still too expensive. At this price I'd buy the Tacktick.

#11 Presuming Ed

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:34 AM

So is this the product of the group that came out of the "Tacktick bullshit" thread? Or is it did the company read the thread and produced this thing, independent of that effort? Interesting about the pricing - looks like it's actually not easy to produce a Tacktick-type device for half the price?

Also, how much actual help is it to know your SOG - especially for those of us who sail in areas with strong tides? Or is it just a "No shit, I saw 20+ on the GPS" type of thing?

#12 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:47 AM

I like the fact that these guys are trying to do something different, but the practicality seems a bit weak. What's with having to turn the device upside down to read speed? At any given time you can have either speed or heading, but not both. You have to be able to get to the device and flip it to change displays. If you need 20m readability, you're on a big boat that will have "proper" instruments. If this is intended for dinghies, cats etc, just when will you get a chance to change displays during a race? And is it readable from both tacks? What's the angle of readability each side of straight ahead?

Not knocking the effort, just trying to work out the useability.

R


The display is a reflective LCD so it doesn't fade out when viewed at an angle like a laptop monitor. It can be easily read in a 120 degree cone in front of the device.

Our target with this product is cats, skiffs and sportboats. The huge numbers are a benefit to anyone who's trying to make tactical decisions in a hurry. Our testing clearly shows that the bigger the numbers, the less time the user needs to spend focused on the device to absorb the information. All the feedback we've gotten has indicated that, in a high pressure environment, bigger is better.

Our testing has also shown that during a race, fiddling with buttons is pretty low on the list of a user's priorities, so we left the buttons off. Feedback on our other products (the S3 and S5) indicated that users virtually never have time to change instrument settings during a during a race.

#13 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:49 AM

So is this the product of the group that came out of the "Tacktick bullshit" thread? Or is it did the company read the thread and produced this thing, independent of that effort? Interesting about the pricing - looks like it's actually not easy to produce a Tacktick-type device for half the price?

Also, how much help is SOG in reality - especially in areas with strong tides?



Many people feel that it's quite important as SOG is also your speed relative to the marks. You could even argue that knowing SOG is more beneficial in strong current.

Some of our testing gets done by 49er sailors in the Columbia River Gorge where the current can exceed 5 knots. They have noticed that if they're on part of the course with favorable current but weaker pressure the Speedcompass allows them to realize they're doing much better than they would have otherwise thought.

#14 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 08:30 AM


based largely on input from the SA forum

love the idea, hate the price

would change name from 'Speedcompass' to 'SpeedAsset' that way the acronym works !


Yes, this thing is expensive. It is also built like a brick shithouse. The device's enclosure meets several Milspec waterproofness and shock resistance standards. The use of user-replaceable, rechargeable AA batteries and top quality electronics gives the Speedcompass an indefinite design life. It is the only piece of consumer electronics I know of that carries a two year warranty. We stand behind that warranty 100%.

If you have a problem with one of our products, we will do whatever it takes to fix the problem… period.

Furthermore, this product is considerably less expensive and more reliable than anything else on the market with equivalent functionality. Even more so when you consider the expense, hassle and drag penalty involved with installing our competitors' through-hull transducers.

#15 foredeck1916

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 11:08 AM



based largely on input from the SA forum

love the idea, hate the price

would change name from 'Speedcompass' to 'SpeedAsset' that way the acronym works !


Yes, this thing is expensive. It is also built like a brick shithouse. The device's enclosure meets several Milspec waterproofness and shock resistance standards. The use of user-replaceable, rechargeable AA batteries and top quality electronics gives the Speedcompass an indefinite design life. It is the only piece of consumer electronics I know of that carries a two year warranty. We stand behind that warranty 100%.

If you have a problem with one of our products, we will do whatever it takes to fix the problem… period.

Furthermore, this product is considerably less expensive and more reliable than anything else on the market with equivalent functionality. Even more so when you consider the expense, hassle and drag penalty involved with installing our competitors' through-hull transducers.



Its still too much and I can't buy one even though I want one.

#16 Phil

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 11:37 AM

Mmnn,a grand Aus,dunno.

#17 shaggymatt

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 11:48 AM

Looks great, price isn't half bad either. Love seeing the competition for the other products. One suggestion though. My one design class, as others, do not allow devices which can tell speed. Is there a similar product in development that only does compass headings, perhaps showing lifts/headers w/o speed? That would allow the price point to come down as well for some of the whiners out there.

All the whiners need to realize user replaceable batteries are a huge perk over the "other" units out there which are basically disposable.

#18 LoopyGirdleSniffer

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 11:50 AM

Wasn't there a discussion here on SA about making an alternative to the Tacktick Race Master a while ago? This seems nice, but it is still too expensive. At this price I'd buy the Tacktick.


Yes there was a thread about this, and it called for a unit that was Stupid Simple and costing about $70 - $100

At these prices regardless of how well it's build the majority of us can't buy one.

#19 Riskyrick

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 12:12 PM

I am interested in the speed only unit. I want to check my OD class rules first before I buy one. If for any reason I don't like the unit, for any reason is there a money back guarrantee? Thanks. Riskyrick

#20 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 01:32 PM

Send me one and i will give it a go on a sportboat and get back to you.

Did i mention i would like to keep it as well? :)

#21 skeltic

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 02:02 PM

I had the pleasure of testing out this GPS compass unit as well as their VMG speedometer product last week. They are both amazing products in their design.
First the GPS compass. I was a little hesitant to think that a digital compass would work for me. I have used tacktics and other big boat compasses in the past and had found them horrible with their lag time. This unit is different it refreshes every second witch really helps with knowing where you are actually going not where you were going a few seconds ago. Really helps with the wind shifts and also differing currents. Remember this unit tells you where you are going not what direction your boat is pointing in.
The huge number readout rocks!

#22 akaGP

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 02:47 PM

Let me get this straight.

For $600 you get two functions (speed and heading), but only one function displayed at a time.

In order to display both available functions simultaneously, you have to buy two units for $1000.

What a crock of shit.

How much more would it have cost to add an additional display on a single unit already equipped with guts that provide both functions?

A marketing ploy that reflects pure greed, methinks.

#23 jdougherty

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 02:48 PM

Interesting, very interesting. Two questions: Is there a backlight for night usage, Is there an on / off switch or do you have to take the batteries out?

#24 skeltic

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 03:05 PM

There is an on off switch. There are dampeners nobbs for both the speedometer and the compass inside the case, to adjust the number stablility from a factor of 0 to 9 I believe 0 does not take the privious reading into account and 9 avarages out the last reading and the current reading to stabalize the number displayed. There is no back light I assume it is intended for daysailing.

#25 Grrr...

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 04:02 PM

more than 1/3 the cost of an S2 7.9 spinnaker for a digital compass?

No.

#26 Groovin

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 04:22 PM

From my understanding of the product; it generates its 'heading' and speed from an internal GPS unit. Most GPSs do this.

This is a lot different from a compass, which displays magnetic heading. A true north based course over ground is a different animal. It may be useful, but my question would be is it the MOST useful information given that you can only display one value.

#27 skeltic

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 04:32 PM

From my understanding of the product; it generates its 'heading' and speed from an internal GPS unit. Most GPSs do this.
This is a lot different from a compass, which displays magnetic heading. A true north based course over ground is a different animal. It may be useful, but my question would be is it the MOST useful information given that you can only display one value.

I have their VMG unit mounted beside their compass unit. I get VMG or speed and heading in big plain numbers at once without touching the units or squinting to see numbers. Everything I want to know right now.

#28 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 05:01 PM

I am interested in the speed only unit. I want to check my OD class rules first before I buy one. If for any reason I don't like the unit, for any reason is there a money back guarrantee? Thanks. Riskyrick


We have a 30 day no questions asked return policy that would give you time to try the device and get your money back if it doesn't work for you.

#29 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 05:02 PM

Interesting, very interesting. Two questions: Is there a backlight for night usage, Is there an on / off switch or do you have to take the batteries out?


No back light but there is an on-off switch.

#30 Sideways

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 05:59 PM


Let me get this straight.

For $600 you get two functions (speed and heading), but only one function displayed at a time.

In order to display both available functions simultaneously, you have to buy two units for $1000.

What a crock of shit.

How much more would it have cost to add an additional display on a single unit already equipped with guts that provide both functions?

A marketing ploy that reflects pure greed, methinks.




The business is owned and run by me, Alec Stewart and my good friend Ken Kurihara. Between the two of us we have three graduate engineering degrees from a little school in Silicon Valley called Stanford University. We have both taken approximately 90% pay cuts to start this company and try to make the most useful sailing instruments possible. It's been a lot of fun and we make enough money to eat but I would probably earn more stocking the shelves at the local Wal-Mart. To accuse us of being motivated by "pure greed" is a cruel joke.

Please come down and meet us at our office at 804 10th Street in Hood River, Oregon. I think after having a closer look at what we do, you might be in a better position to gauge what motivates us.



This thread has 'splicing nut' potential!

#31 akaGP

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 06:05 PM


Let me get this straight.

For $600 you get two functions (speed and heading), but only one function displayed at a time.

In order to display both available functions simultaneously, you have to buy two units for $1000.

What a crock of shit.

How much more would it have cost to add an additional display on a single unit already equipped with guts that provide both functions?

A marketing ploy that reflects pure greed, methinks.

The business is owned and run by me, Alec Stewart and my good friend Ken Kurihara. Between the two of us we have three graduate engineering degrees from a little school in Silicon Valley called Stanford University. We have both taken approximately 90% pay cuts to start this company and try to make the most useful sailing instruments possible. It's been a lot of fun and we make enough money to eat but I would probably earn more stocking the shelves at the local Wal-Mart. To accuse us of being motivated by "pure greed" is a cruel joke.

Please come down and meet us at our office at 804 10th Street in Hood River, Oregon. I think after having a closer look at what we do, you might be in a better position to gauge what motivates us.

Your response would be much more persuasive if you had answered in detail the question posed in my post.
"How much more would it have cost to add an additional display on a single unit already equipped with guts that provide both functions?"


Depending on your answer to that question, if persuaded I would be happy to edit the "marketing ploy" remark, especially since I may be interested in purchasing these type of products.

#32 Strategery

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 06:07 PM

[/quote]
The business is owned and run by me, Alec Stewart and my good friend Ken Kurihara. Between the two of us we have three graduate engineering degrees from a little school in Silicon Valley called Stanford University. We have both taken approximately 90% pay cuts to start this company and try to make the most useful sailing instruments possible. It's been a lot of fun and we make enough money to eat but I would probably earn more stocking the shelves at the local Wal-Mart. To accuse us of being motivated by "pure greed" is a cruel joke.

Please come down and meet us at our office at 804 10th Street in Hood River, Oregon. I think after having a closer look at what we do, you might be in a better position to gauge what motivates us.
[/quote]

Guys,

Applaud the entrepereneurial spirit. No one here begrudges you a living. However...this data suggests that the price point you have launched at will be a limiter to successful growth.

Look at the product again, but with a redefined set of design goals. Reengineer with cost as the driving variable. Go no higher than the cheapest handheld GPS. See what the tradeoffs on functionality are.

If you calculate a cost curve for higher volume sales and price accordingly. I'll bet you'll find the math is more attractive with the right kind of volume. There are tools you can use to calculate product cost given different production amounts...let me know if you need direction here.

Very few new technology driven products are as focused on cost as they should be. TackTic and current GPS handhelds are setting the rules of the game for you right now. If you do this right, you either position yourself to seriously grow the business or get bought by one of the bigger players. Either way, you'll come out ahead. Price it too high, and you'll never get off the ground to your potential.

That's my 2 cents.

C.

#33 Call Me Boomvang

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 06:07 PM

I think $1,100 bucks for a speedo and a compass is a good deal for some simple bouy racing electronics even on small offshore boats. SOG is what I want for course races. I do have problems believing the SOG is accurate enough if it is GPS data. Plus I like the fact that if your compass fails, you have a backup by simply flipping the thing. AA batteries means you need to invest in two sets of rechargables. Needs a small aluminum mast mount bracket that works in a slug track.

#34 skeltic

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 06:12 PM

They do offer a speedometer/ VMG meter for 250 US.

#35 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 06:26 PM



Let me get this straight.

For $600 you get two functions (speed and heading), but only one function displayed at a time.

In order to display both available functions simultaneously, you have to buy two units for $1000.

What a crock of shit.

How much more would it have cost to add an additional display on a single unit already equipped with guts that provide both functions?

A marketing ploy that reflects pure greed, methinks.

The business is owned and run by me, Alec Stewart and my good friend Ken Kurihara. Between the two of us we have three graduate engineering degrees from a little school in Silicon Valley called Stanford University. We have both taken approximately 90% pay cuts to start this company and try to make the most useful sailing instruments possible. It's been a lot of fun and we make enough money to eat but I would probably earn more stocking the shelves at the local Wal-Mart. To accuse us of being motivated by "pure greed" is a cruel joke.

Please come down and meet us at our office at 804 10th Street in Hood River, Oregon. I think after having a closer look at what we do, you might be in a better position to gauge what motivates us.

Your response would be much more persuasive if you had answered in detail the question posed in my post.
"How much more would it have cost to add an additional display on a single unit already equipped with guts that provide both functions?"


Depending on your answer to that question, if persuaded I would be happy to edit the "marketing ploy" remark, especially since I may be interested in purchasing these type of products.


It's hard to give you a simple answer on this one as the cost to manufacture these things depends on both fixed tooling costs and raw material costs. If you want to talk over the details, give me a call at 650 353 0262 and I would be happy to explain more.

More importantly, avoiding a split screen and using the biggest numbers possible makes the device easier to read at a glance. All our testing shows that this starts to make a big difference in the chaos of a race.

#36 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 06:38 PM

About the widget in question, having one myself, I'd like to make the following observations:

1. Nice speedo, really responsive but why no decimal points on the readout @ 10 knots or more? Monos may not fine tune over 10 (just so thrilled to go that fast!) but multis need to.

2. Why not a dual readout? As is, the thing is quite big enough to be read at least 20 feet away. They could mount it on Orange's mast and read it from the cockpits. Speed and VMG would be really nice to have.

3. Why just three piddling AAA batteries? It should be really easy to make them AAs for example, and the price is the same. I bet the sailboarders love changing batteries mid race!

Gruntfuttock the multihuller


Our new Speedcompass, which is the subject of this thread has a three digit display that shows speed with .1 knot resolution all the way up to 99.9 knots. It also uses two AA batteries and an advanced step-up voltage regulator for 24hr + battery life.

#37 aA

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:20 PM

any future considerations for a mast mounting bracket? or care to tell me how your 49er testers mounted it?

#38 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:28 PM

any future considerations for a mast mounting bracket? or care to tell me how your 49er testers mounted it?

Our prototypes went on the 49er with duct tape. We are working on some spar mounting hardware. The Dual lock available now works very well on any flat surface.

#39 aA

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:35 PM


any future considerations for a mast mounting bracket? or care to tell me how your 49er testers mounted it?

Our prototypes went on the 49er with duct tape. We are working on some spar mounting hardware. The Dual lock available now works very well on any flat surface.


sorry, no flat surface on my boat that i'd trust a six benjamin widget to be attached to. luckily i work for a fab company and can make one if i end up taking the plunge.

i must say, after the tactic crap i've dealt with, your product looks pretty good

#40 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:38 PM

Guys,

Applaud the entrepereneurial spirit. No one here begrudges you a living. However...this data suggests that the price point you have launched at will be a limiter to successful growth.

Look at the product again, but with a redefined set of design goals. Reengineer with cost as the driving variable. Go no higher than the cheapest handheld GPS. See what the tradeoffs on functionality are.

If you calculate a cost curve for higher volume sales and price accordingly. I'll bet you'll find the math is more attractive with the right kind of volume. There are tools you can use to calculate product cost given different production amounts...let me know if you need direction here.

Very few new technology driven products are as focused on cost as they should be. TackTic and current GPS handhelds are setting the rules of the game for you right now. If you do this right, you either position yourself to seriously grow the business or get bought by one of the bigger players. Either way, you'll come out ahead. Price it too high, and you'll never get off the ground to your potential.

That's my 2 cents.

C.



I appreciate the friendly tone of your posting. I would just like to point out that THE LEAST EXPENSIVE TACKTICK SYSTEM THAT CAN PROVIDE BOTH SPEED AND HEADING COSTS $1399.99 and requires the installation of through-hull transducers.

Apart from the reliability issues discussed at great length on this forum, Tacktick makes great products with some pretty clever features. I believe, however, that we deliver better performance in a race environment, better customer support and way better value for your money.

#41 skeltic

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:48 PM

any future considerations for a mast mounting bracket? or care to tell me how your 49er testers mounted it?

We mounted it to the boom, one compass and a Speedo on each side we used that crazy new style velco that sticks to itself and electrical tape to be curtain it didn't go for a swim.

The housing for the compass is bomb proof really thick plastic I am possitive if I strapped it to the top of my 25 foot mast and turtled it would be fine, it is that waterproof. If I remember correctlly their was talk of running it over with a car as well.
Alec- you should do some unreal testing to know the limits of this product.

#42 LakeBoy

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 09:05 PM

Velocitec,

I presume the unit needs motion to generate direction. Is this correct? If so, how accurate is it at ultra low speeds in drifter races?

What is the antenna orientation? Any problems in testing mounting it on the mast. I'd think the mast & boom would block a considerable portion of the GPS constellation.

I like the concept but size matters. At 8.25 x 4.50 mounting 2 is a chunk of space on a 21 foot boat. I'm also not sure I like the idea of it being readly readable by the local competitors.

Any chance you will come out with a 3 digit version about 2/3rds the size?

How about using the 8.25 x 4.5 case, turning it 90 degrees and giving us 3 functions? (OK, maybe going up to 6 x 9)

#43 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 09:21 PM

Velocitec,

I presume the unit needs motion to generate direction. Is this correct? If so, how accurate is it at ultra low speeds in drifter races?

What is the antenna orientation? Any problems in testing mounting it on the mast. I'd think the mast & boom would block a considerable portion of the GPS constellation.

I like the concept but size matters. At 8.25 x 4.50 mounting 2 is a chunk of space on a 21 foot boat. I'm also not sure I like the idea of it being readly readable by the local competitors.

Any chance you will come out with a 3 digit version about 2/3rds the size?

How about using the 8.25 x 4.5 case, turning it 90 degrees and giving us 3 functions? (OK, maybe going up to 6 x 9)


LakeBoy, here are the answers to your questions:

-The Speedcompass is accurate down to speeds less than 2 knots. The device has twist knobs to adjust damping on both the speedo and compass measurements. Increasing the damping improves performance at low speeds.

-Aluminum spars do block some GPS signals but the device only needs to view a small subset fo the constellation to get accurate speed and heading info. Speed and heading are calculated using the doppler shift in the GPS signals and are much more robust measurements than position.

-We are looking at making a smaller version.

-The idea of having a big display that groups a whole bunch of different kinds of information on it does to appeal to some people and I agree that it is an idea worth looking into. However, our overall design philosophy is to minimize clutter and minimize the time a decision maker needs to spend focused on the instrument. At the end of the day our goal is to help our customers improve their race results.

#44 resdog

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 09:28 PM

I have an old signet digital knot/log which has a broken instrumrnt head. A new one with the transducer is $385-$450.00 US. The speedo/VMG unit at $250.00 US looks like a good replacement. I'll put a bulkhead compass in the old hole.

#45 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 11:06 PM

There has been a lot of grumbling about the price of our new speedcompass. This is bugging me because I feel like we priced it fairly.

Given the following comparison with other products that offer similar functionality (albeit with considerably weaker warranty coverage):

Velocitek Speedcompass mounted right side up - $595 (no through hull required)
Tacktick Speed Master System - $999 (Speed but not heading, through hull installation required)

Velocitek Speedcompass mounted upside down - $595 (real time heading updated once per second)
Tacktick Race Master- $899 (Heading but not speed)

Velocitek Speedcompass dual unit package - $995 (Speed and heading displayed simultaneously)
Tacktick Sail Master System - $1,399.99 (Heading and speed, through hull installation required)


I would like to hear what you Anarchists think a fair price for the Speedcompass would be. I will pay close attention to all sincere suggestions. Thanks for your input.

#46 judge

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 11:10 PM

Looks like a great product even at the somewhat arse-puckering price, but what other high-end marine widget can you name that's cheap. :P

Question:- is the Global availability of birds sufficient to get a good signal, and hence sufficient data, worldwide, or will there be dead spots?

Idea:- i] What about a verticle swivel mount that will hold the unit and allow a quick 180 degree invert, something like an hour-glass, only made out of carbon fibre with unobtainium bearings. That way you can use both functions.
ii] Any possibility of a wrist strap mount?

Keep up the good work!!

#47 Velocitek

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 11:15 PM

Looks like a great product even at the somewhat arse-puckering price, but what other high-end marine widget can you name that's cheap. :P

Question:- is the Global availability of birds sufficient to get a good signal, and hence sufficient data, worldwide, or will there be dead spots?

Idea:- i] What about a verticle swivel mount that will hold the unit and allow a quick 180 degree invert, something like an hour-glass, only made out of carbon fibre with unobtainium bearings. That way you can use both functions.
ii] Any possibility of a wrist strap mount?

Keep up the good work!!


Thanks for the ideas. An hourglass style mount would be cool. To answer your question, GPS works worldwide. No problem there.

#48 Jib Man

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 12:52 AM

I would like to hear what you Anarchists think a fair price for the Speedcompass would be. I will pay close attention to all sincere suggestions. Thanks for your input.


I think you are at the right price point, don't change a thing. We will buy one for scow sailing if my skipper agrees. Switching out our trustworthy Tacktick will be painful though, because we've relied on it for many years.

You are pitching to the toughest audience in the business. Take a look through the archives and count the number of products that have been praised on SA. Many people come here to take a crap on whatever is new. The idiot that compared this to the Splicing Nut should just shut the fuck up.

The math for me is easy:

Tacktick - about the same price as Velocitek and you get a magnetic compass and a bunch of buttons and features we NEVER use. The only add-on feature beyond compass we use is the stopwatch. None of the guys on our boats wear watches in our daily lives and don't particularly like to strap on a timer.... ;)

Velocitek - you get real-time GPS data and a display with huge numbers.... SWEET!

The speedometer for us lake sailors would be used only when it's windy. For us, the speed data is not a tactical advantage whatsoever, but we have FOREVER wanted to know how fast we are going when it blows. For lake sailors, taking a GPS along to collect data has just never been very important. WE WANT TO SEE HOW FAST WE ARE GOING RIGHT NOW! Not hours later after we fuck around with the gps. And we'll never put a speedometer-probe into the water, or have some dweeb pull out his handheld GPS while we're flying down the lake, it's not even a possibility.

I say Velocitek looks like a great product at the right price. Don't change a thing. If anything Tacktick, with its features we never use and Great Grandfather's compass technology inside is way overpriced. They sold a shitload of Tackticks at a handsome price... hats off to them... With a clearly superior product and some marketing savvy, you should too.

If we like it we'll be telling a lot more scow sailors. The biggest indicator to me is that the 49'er sailors like it. Can't wait to finally see how fast we are going :rolleyes:

BTW I sit next to the mast, and I will have no trouble at all finding the time needed to flip the Velocitek upside down after we set the assymetrical kite in the Big Blow. Lake Sailing at High Speed Needs Velocitek

I am in the electronic device business myself, and am very impressed by what I see from Velocitek. Well done.

#49 Recidivist

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 01:25 AM

Velocitek Speedcompass dual unit package - $995 (Speed and heading displayed simultaneously)

I hadn't noticed that you can get a "dual unit package". Even though it's expensive in Aus$, I suspect the top teams will buy them. I think you've got a market.

It would be good to have downloadable data as well - in the heat of a race you struggle to remember what your speed and heading on port tack was on the left side, as opposed to being on the right side of the course next lap. If you can analyse it later it may show that one side is favoured and explain why you lost all those places - again!

Keep up the out-of-the-box thinking.

#50 YCpunk!

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 02:47 AM

First of all, my boat needs way to much other shit before I even think of buying something like this.

Having said that,

You have to give Velocitek alot of credit to sit at their computer and answer these questions from everyone...this Crowd normally reduces Vendors to tears by the time its all over....

Good Luck Guys,
Punk

#51 Off Watch

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 02:49 AM

I bought the VMG unit about a month ago and love it, we are new to the onedesign dingy class that we are racing and was not real sure of the angles upwind and downwind the Velocitec S5 helped us win the first regatta that we used it, the second day it stopped working, a phone call and they sent me out a new unit 3 days later.
Unit seams very well consructed, (way better then the Tactick units I have seen and the KVH compass that we had in the past) and Customer service is great, When we go back to a Keel Sportsboat I will be adding thier Speed compass to our inventory.
If I could swing it I would replace our Plastimo compass on our dinghy before next months NACs.

#52 Off Watch

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 03:00 AM

One funtion that would be nice would be if it could also be used as a start countdown timer.
I know everyones got a countdown timer on there wrist but its nice to have the timer on the mast then it would switch into the compass mode at the end of the countdown.

#53 SPORTSCAR

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 03:30 AM

We are using the Velocitek S5 Speedo / VMG on Sportscar and I have also used it on the Fiery Dragon sportsboat. Thats one of the great things about it; you can take it from boat to boat whenever you like. Nice big easy-to-read numbers and simple operation make it a user friendly and useful piece of kit.
BTW the TackTick on the boat is u/s and currently undergoing an unauthorised and complicated (read:$$$) repair after the distributor could offer no help to help get the POS going again.

At least we have a good spot to mount the Velocitek! :lol:

Attached File  100_0012.JPG   21.68K   22 downloads

#54 JDL

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 03:39 AM

Velocitek,

Something (albeit after graduating several times from a midwestern engine school) is the potential of mounting miniature gps antennas on the bow/stern/port/starboard. Heading (not COG) would be very accurate, heel, pitch, etc. A single board PC could <1 amp. It's been a few years since I worked with this technology but I was curious if you had given many antennas any thought?

This is not new, Furuno and others offer a 8K or so system that is huge and does exactly that.

Best of luck, if you can survive this group, you will do well. I am in Seattle for the next 3 weeks and if my test is interrurupted, I will stop by with a few EE design engineers and do an unbiased evaluation for the group.

Cheers!

#55 Velocitek

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 03:41 AM

I am in Seattel for the next 3 weeks and if my test is inter!!rupted, I will stop by with a few EE design engineers and do an unbiased evaluation for the group.

Cheers!


Your more than welcome to come by for a visit and check out what's cooking in the lab. Just give me a shout at 650 353 0262.

#56 akaGP

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 05:01 AM

There has been a lot of grumbling about the price of our new speedcompass. This is bugging me because I feel like we priced it fairly.

Given the following comparison with other products that offer similar functionality (albeit with considerably weaker warranty coverage):

Velocitek Speedcompass mounted right side up - $595 (no through hull required)
Tacktick Speed Master System - $999 (Speed but not heading, through hull installation required)

Velocitek Speedcompass mounted upside down - $595 (real time heading updated once per second)
Tacktick Race Master- $899 (Heading but not speed)

Velocitek Speedcompass dual unit package - $995 (Speed and heading displayed simultaneously)
Tacktick Sail Master System - $1,399.99 (Heading and speed, through hull installation required)


I would like to hear what you Anarchists think a fair price for the Speedcompass would be. I will pay close attention to all sincere suggestions. Thanks for your input.

Velocitek Speedcompass with DUAL DISPLAY - $600 plus materials and labor for the additional display; certainly well under $1,000.

#57 shaggymatt

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 12:55 PM

This is what I need to comply with:

i) Electronic Equipment - the following electronic devices are allowed aboard a
Lightning:
(1) Battery-powered wrist watches.
(2) An electronic digital compass with chronograph (timer and/or clock). The
compass must be entirely self-contained with either an internal battery
and/or solar power. The compass shall have no external connection.
(3) An electric device shall not provide wind information, boat speed,
navigational features, GPS information or compute correlations between
time and heading.

So if there was a unit that only did compass heading, I'd be in great shape. I have to say though, that one of the bonuses of the TackTick micro is that it has a race countdown. I wear a watch for racing, but I'd rather not have to look down, and give my crew the ability to give me an idea of where we stand in the sequence. I realize that disabling the boat speed portion doesn't lower your cost to produce, but it may be required to compete with the TackTick micro which is around $400, and almost standard in the class.

#58 Hike, Bitches!

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 01:19 PM

This is what I need to comply with:

i) Electronic Equipment - the following electronic devices are allowed aboard a
Lightning:
(1) Battery-powered wrist watches.
(2) An electronic digital compass with chronograph (timer and/or clock). The
compass must be entirely self-contained with either an internal battery
and/or solar power. The compass shall have no external connection.
(3) An electric device shall not provide wind information, boat speed,
navigational features, GPS information or compute correlations between
time and heading.

So if there was a unit that only did compass heading, I'd be in great shape. I have to say though, that one of the bonuses of the TackTick micro is that it has a race countdown. I wear a watch for racing, but I'd rather not have to look down, and give my crew the ability to give me an idea of where we stand in the sequence. I realize that disabling the boat speed portion doesn't lower your cost to produce, but it may be required to compete with the TackTick micro which is around $400, and almost standard in the class.


Shaggy,

It is obvious to me that the current rule (I am also a Lightning class member) was written almost to the letter, to allow the TackTick onboard, (and we have one). Since this new Velocitek device uses a GPS receiver to calculate heading, it is quite possibly not allowed under the current rule.

(3) An electric device shall not provide wind information, boat speed,
navigational features, GPS information or compute correlations between
time and heading.

That is my interpretation anyway...maybe they'll open the rule a little to allow products like this. (with or without speed data...in close one-design racing, who really needs a speedo anyway...look around and get your head out of the boat) - I also deal with stringent rules like this in the Laser class that make me angry :angry: - but I understand the concept...that doesn't mean I can't bitch about it :P

I too would like to see the price lowered a little bit, especially for the dual display unit.... I am looking for something to replace the ancient Datamarine garbage and single compass (the you can only read from the port side!!) on the big boat too.

For the boys at Velocitek...thanks for bringing products like this to the market...keep up the good work and product development!!!!!!!!!

#59 Grrr...

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 01:50 PM

Ok, my initial reply was a bit terse.... but I would want to get rid of the "flip" sensor on the speedcompass. Inside the battery compartment put a 3 position switch. One for speed, one for compass, and one for alternating back and forth between the two. 3 second intervals would probably be ideal for alternating. Btw, I'm copyrighting, trademarking, and patenting my idea for the 3 position switch. It's got be cheaper than buying 2 displays, and it halves the form factor of having to mount both.

I hate the price point, but you've got to make a profit, so oh well - the KVH Sailcomp does compass only and costs at a similar price point. Maybe I need to get into a different sport.

#60 shaggymatt

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 05:17 PM

Shaggy,

It is obvious to me that the current rule (I am also a Lightning class member) was written almost to the letter, to allow the TackTick onboard, (and we have one). Since this new Velocitek device uses a GPS receiver to calculate heading, it is quite possibly not allowed under the current rule.


I'm not entirely sure that the unit would be in violation if it was only showing compass headings. It isn't providing navigational information. I guess you could loosely say that it is providing GPS information since the compass heading is being generated from the GPS.

True, I could care less about the speed on my Lightning, if I'm not going as fast as the boat next to me, something isn't right and I don't need the speedo to tell me that.

I haven't done much research into any of this, if possible, but the polarization of sunglasses also kills most all LCD readouts from anything but a few angles. I've really noticed it on the TackTick Racemaster.

I just have a Plastimo globe compass on my boat, I've been pondering something digital, but the pencil lift/header notes work just fine till the prices drop.

#61 Sideways

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 08:23 PM


I would like to hear what you Anarchists think a fair price for the Speedcompass would be. I will pay close attention to all sincere suggestions. Thanks for your input.


Many people come here to take a crap on whatever is new. The idiot that compared this to the Splicing Nut should just shut the fuck up.


I was referring to this thread's initial attitude toward the product not the product itself, but whatever.

#62 GRUMPY

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 07:35 AM

How 'bout those guys! $399US, gotta be happy with that! You guys gonna pay the freight to Indo?? :P

#63 Adrift

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 07:52 AM

How 'bout those guys! $399US, gotta be happy with that! You guys gonna pay the freight to Indo?? :P


Great new price!! Time to research and see if it's class legal.

#64 Velocitek

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 04:21 PM

How 'bout those guys! $399US, gotta be happy with that! You guys gonna pay the freight to Indo?? :P


Yes!

#65 razorback

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Posted 25 July 2006 - 06:23 PM


How 'bout those guys! $399US, gotta be happy with that! You guys gonna pay the freight to Indo?? :P


Yes!



Nice responsiveness Velocitek! I don't have a pressing need for your doodad right this instant (Tacktick battery still working), but when it dies in about a year I'll definately look you all up.

#66 mid-fleet buoy racer

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 06:44 AM

The VMG unit seems to be a perfect solution for me, even though my 35' boat is not the target market. My speedo has died, but my flux gate compass is still working fine. I can live with the COG speed for now, way better than nothing.... and with heading and VMG, I will be better informed than I have been in a while.

So I ordered the VMG unit. Hope it comes before Nationals...


MFBR

#67 GRUMPY

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 07:50 AM


How 'bout those guys! $399US, gotta be happy with that! You guys gonna pay the freight to Indo?? :P


Yes!


OK, you're on. Order from the front page?

#68 GRUMPY

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Posted 28 July 2006 - 08:06 AM

Bloody Paypal! Neither your secure checkout or paypal like Indonesia. Not surprised, there's few that do. PM me and we'll get something organised, OK?




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