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#1 Editor

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 03:37 AM

Big Pimpin'

Cool Tool

Upstart race instrument manufacturer, Velocitek, LLC has announced the launch of the Velocitek S10 GPS sail training tool. The Velocitek S10 builds on the proven accuracy, reliability and user friendliness of Velocitek's successful S5 VMG Sensor / Speedometer. The S10 offers identical functionality to the S5 plus the ability to record over 10 hours of GPS data in Flash Memory. Using the S10 is money back guaranteed to improve both your upwind and downwind speed.

GPS data can be downloaded from the S10 with a USB cable to any PC running Windows XP. The data can then be easily combined with data from other boats to review and analyze races with freely downloadable applications like Google Earth and GPS Action Replay. Please see their site for more information. Coments?

09/15/06

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#2 mustang__1

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 03:40 AM

looks cool for race review if i read it right. Price?

#3 Velocitek

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 03:48 AM

looks cool for race review if i read it right. Price?


-$299 with free shipping in the US or to any country without a Velocitek Dealer.
-30 day no questions asked money back guarantee
-2 year warranty against manufacturing defects

It's designed to work seamlessly with GPS Action Replay and Google Earth, both of which are freely downloadable. It's easy to combine tracks with other boats in the fleet to see how the race played out from a birds eye view. The replays are really useful to:

- track your performance around the race course
- see the real angles that you sailed around the course
- check to see if you really sailed all the lifts (or headers!) around the course
- to get an overall perspective of how the race played out
- see how close to the rhumbline you really sailed
- understand if you are really sailing the optimal course

#4 tuf-luf

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 04:03 AM

Does it interface with the B&G's or Furuno GPS? If yes, how?

#5 Velocitek

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 04:09 AM

Does it interface with the B&G's or Furuno GPS? If yes, how?


No, it's completely self contained with its own GPS receiver and antenna. Everything is fully waterproof to 75ft.

#6 tuf-luf

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 04:29 AM

Thanks - next obvious question: what does it weigh?

#7 Velocitek

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 04:55 AM

Thanks - next obvious question: what does it weigh?


204 g (0.45 lb)

You can check out some photos and detailed specs. here

#8 Ned

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 05:00 AM

Waterproof to 75 feet? Looks like approved for I14 use then.

#9 Velocitek

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 05:09 AM

Waterproof to 75 feet? Looks like approved for I14 use then.


Definitely! Sailing Pro Shop is actually running a demo with some Velocitek S10's at the 14 Worlds right now.

When we say waterproof we don't mean "waterproof" to some obscure EU spec. We mean you can crash at 30 knots and hold the thing underwater for an hour and it will be unscathed. Before we started putting it on boats, we did a lot of testing for waterproofness in the Gorge with kiters and windsurfers. The S10 has survived windsurfers crashing on forward loops as well as some pretty horrific kiteboarding wipeouts.

#10 tuf-luf

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 05:20 AM

OK - now that's pretty slick!

Posted Image

#11 penguin

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 05:54 AM

Do they have back lighting for night sailing.

#12 Velocitek

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:05 AM

Do they have back lighting for night sailing.

Sorry, no backlight.

#13 tuf-luf

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:06 AM

Sorry, no backlight.


Murders battery life I guess?

#14 Velocitek

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:18 AM

Murders battery life I guess?


Yeah, it would be cool to have a backlight. We just didn't make it a priority because it's not something that's super important to our target market: high-performance dinghy and sportboat sailors racing around the buoys.

#15 cinnr

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:48 AM

Looks like the screen shot from GPS Action Replay has boat names from the Seattle Melges 24 fleet. Can't make out where they are though. Velocitek - Did you do some testing or something in Seattle?

#16 tuf-luf

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:52 AM

Looks like "Trophy Wife" lost a crew or something 3/4 of the way up the track!

Posted Image

#17 Thiepval

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 09:16 AM

When we say waterproof we don't mean "waterproof" to some obscure EU spec. We mean you can crash at 30 knots and hold the thing underwater for an hour and it will be unscathed.


So as far as the EU spec is concerned, it's not waterproof???? If your website can be seen in the EU (and I am in the EU right now, and have just looked at your website) and you say that it is waterproof, but it is not in the EU eyes, then you are selling it under false advertising....

I'm not getting at you, but I think you need to look at this, before people start sueing you......

#18 bowdude1

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 12:35 PM

What are the update rates during playback? If I go out and tune with another boat, and each of us have one of these, does it automatically sync up the playback from both units, or is it just overlays of both boats tracks from all day? Cool idea either way.

#19 Essex

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 01:56 PM

Jeez guys, way to obsolete my Velocitek unit I bought a few months ago - how about an upgrade / buyback deal ?

#20 Knothead

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 02:22 PM

A couple of guys here in MN have designed software to replay races. They download the data from most any GPS unit to a PC and put it online. We can watch a projection replay in the club right after the race or online the next day when we are pretending to work. They are going to some big regattas and they have demos on their website:

http://www.kattack.com/

#21 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 03:03 PM

A couple of guys here in MN have designed software to replay races. They download the data from most any GPS unit to a PC and put it online. We can watch a projection replay in the club right after the race or online the next day when we are pretending to work. They are going to some big regattas and they have demos on their website:

http://www.kattack.com/

I think those guys were at NYYC week in Newport. They had the B36.7s one day wired and the Farrs the next day. It was extremely cool, and probably an awesome training tool.

The Vtek looks like just the ticket for smaller boats who want the speed/vmg readout too. Good shit coming out these days for racers - less art, more numbers.

#22 Knothead

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 03:25 PM

Last night we were watching the "Kattack" replay of the first day of the J22 Nationals being held here on Lake Minnetonka. Pretty cool to see the race replay of all 59 boats crowding the marks.

#23 Call Me Boomvang

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 04:06 PM

Looks like "Trophy Wife" lost a crew or something 3/4 of the way up the track!

Posted Image


Penalty Turn?

#24 bradb555

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 04:29 PM

Question for Velocitek,

I noticed your website has the speed compass "Sold Out". I was planning on adding this to my xmas list. are you building more speed compasses?

Also any comments re: the speed compass are welcomed.

Also do the speed compass' have the ability for data tracking? If not, is this a furure upgrade?

#25 Grrr...

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 04:43 PM

Thiepval, I think you will find that the world does not revolve around the EU.

Just because the EU has defined what they deem waterproof does not mean that it forces everyone in the world to follow their definition.

The velocitek guys have clearly defined what they mean by waterproof. Take the unit to 75 feet and it will still retain integrity.

#26 Velocitek

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 05:52 PM

Yeah, it would be cool to have a backlight. We just didn't make it a priority because it's not something that's super important to our target market: high-performance dinghy and sportboat sailors racing around the buoys.


The screenshot is from a demo we did at the Gorge One Design Regatta in Cascade Locks, OR.

#27 Velocitek

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 05:58 PM

So as far as the EU spec is concerned, it's not waterproof???? If your website can be seen in the EU (and I am in the EU right now, and have just looked at your website) and you say that it is waterproof, but it is not in the EU eyes, then you are selling it under false advertising....

I'm not getting at you, but I think you need to look at this, before people start sueing you......


The EU has a range waterproofness specs. for electronics. The easier ones call only for the device to be submerged for 30 seconds. This allows many electronics manufacturers to call their devices "waterproof", when in fact they are not by any common sense definition of the term.

My point was only that our stuff is not just waterproof to the letter of the EU specification, it's actually waterproof in a practical real-world sense as well.

#28 Velocitek

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:03 PM

Question for Velocitek,

I noticed your website has the speed compass "Sold Out". I was planning on adding this to my xmas list. are you building more speed compasses?

Also any comments re: the speed compass are welcomed.

Also do the speed compass' have the ability for data tracking? If not, is this a furure upgrade?


It may be a while before we have some more Speedcompasses in stock but I'm positive at least one of the following dealers has stock in their online store:

Sailing Pro Shop
Annapolis Performance Sailing
Mauri Pro Sailing

The Speedcompass does not have track storage / download capability.

We do have plenty of S10's (the model with track storage) in stock and ready to ship!

Thanks for your interest!

#29 Flying Wasp

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:25 PM

Great tool. After a disappointing finish in this year's Mac race I used the tracking data from the race to reconstruct where we went wrong in a .ppt deck. Using data like this takes the bullshit out of excuses and can only help you get the boat moving faster.

#30 tuf-luf

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:25 PM

Penalty Turn?


Pretty wide turn? A little more handbrake desired perhaps.

#31 EVK4

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:35 PM

This is worth buying. Any chance you have plans for it to work with OS X (Mac)? I hate using my work computer for anything other than SA.

#32 Mark K

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:43 PM

So as far as the EU spec is concerned, it's not waterproof???? If your website can be seen in the EU (and I am in the EU right now, and have just looked at your website) and you say that it is waterproof, but it is not in the EU eyes, then you are selling it under false advertising....

I'm not getting at you, but I think you need to look at this, before people start sueing you......



I wouldn't worry about this unit Thiepval, I've used one of these
and it's about the most ruggedly packaged piece of electronics
I've ever come across.

#33 Velocitek

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 06:56 PM

This is worth buying. Any chance you have plans for it to work with OS X (Mac)? I hate using my work computer for anything other than SA.


This is something we'd love to do but we just don't have the resources right now. We looked into it and it would involve a pretty massive duplication of effort. It's still on the wish list though.

#34 Essex

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:29 PM

Jeez guys, way to obsolete my Velocitek unit I bought a few months ago - how about an upgrade / buyback deal ?

I guess silence means no ???

#35 Velocitek

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:44 PM

I guess silence means no ???


If you send me a PM, we might be able to work something out.

#36 Hippie

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 07:54 PM

Can it call over earlies?

#37 Velocitek

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Posted 15 September 2006 - 08:13 PM

Can it call over earlies?


It's not quite accurate enough to do that. It would work most of the time but we can't say that it would be 100% reliable in this application. As a result it should only be used for entertainment and training purpose but not to resolve protests.

#38 Buford

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 02:57 PM

Only 2 digits on the display? Seems like for high performance sportboats you'd want 3...

#39 Velocitek

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 06:28 PM

Only 2 digits on the display? Seems like for high performance sportboats you'd want 3...


Once you are over 10 knots 0.1 knots represents a les than 1% change in speed. The constant variation in your speed from chop and swell is much bigger than this. When you have done a lot of testing with two and three digits and the overwhelming conclusion is that two is enough communicate the necessary information. Using two digits also allows us to have huge numbers in a very small case.

#40 HWP

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 09:21 PM

Once you are over 10 knots 0.1 knots represents a les than 1% change in speed. The constant variation in your speed from chop and swell is much bigger than this. When you have done a lot of testing with two and three digits and the overwhelming conclusion is that two is enough communicate the necessary information. Using two digits also allows us to have huge numbers in a very small case.


Love the large display -- lets me use peripheral vision to keep an eye on speed.

I have the speedo-only unit and find it's cheaper than a new sail in terms of equivalent performance gain, and it keeps the crew focused on speed, too.

Can't wait to try the compass/speedo combo next year ... the GPS replay should be most helpful for scoping out local sailing phenomena.

#41 Buford

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Posted 16 September 2006 - 11:45 PM

"Once you are over 10 knots 0.1 knots represents a less than 1% change in speed."

Factual enough statement. That said, trimming to achieve the difference between say, 10.2 kts and 10.8 kts can be quite significant as it is a 6% change in boatspeed.

I do agree that readability is a VERY desirable option.

Consider this suggestion... instead of displaying the 10's digit, always display the last two. (1's and tenths). You could put a '+' symbol, LED (etc) to show over 10 kts boatspead... or (++) for 20's.

It is also very likely the crew will know when they are in the teens... and will instantly interpert a simple '2.1' as '12.1' At that point the logic tells us that always displaying the knots and tents might make the best sense.

Heck, maybe that's the way you do it now, although your answer indicates otherwise... ???

#42 Velocitek

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 04:17 AM

"Once you are over 10 knots 0.1 knots represents a less than 1% change in speed."

Factual enough statement. That said, trimming to achieve the difference between say, 10.2 kts and 10.8 kts can be quite significant as it is a 6% change in boatspeed.

I do agree that readability is a VERY desirable option.

Consider this suggestion... instead of displaying the 10's digit, always display the last two. (1's and tenths). You could put a '+' symbol, LED (etc) to show over 10 kts boatspead... or (++) for 20's.

It is also very likely the crew will know when they are in the teens... and will instantly interpert a simple '2.1' as '12.1' At that point the logic tells us that always displaying the knots and tents might make the best sense.

Heck, maybe that's the way you do it now, although your answer indicates otherwise... ???


Our first product, the S3, had a precision select feature where you could choose between displaying "12" and "2.1" for 12.1 knots. The feedback from the test team was that they never used it in high precision mode so we dropped the feature to simplify the user interface. We've done a fair bit of testing and listened to feedback from our customers. I have not heard a single complaint about precision from anyone who has actually sailed with an S3, S5 or S10.

I think part of the issue here is the high update rate of the S3/5/10. With a new reading delivered every second, the device is responding instantly to changes in pressure, trim, crew position, etc... This gives you instant feedback on the big stuff which is great. On the other hand, watching tenths of a knot fly all over the place while sailing through chop doesn't tell you much.

If the update rate was slower and we averaged over 10 seconds or more, looking at the tenths would be useful for fine tuning, but we would compromise the device's main benefit which is instant feedback.

Our Speedcompass, which is a bulkier device aimed at bigger boats has three digits and an adjustable damping knob that lets you decide for yourself how you want to tradeoff between precision and response time. Nonetheless, for high performance dinghies, cats and sportboats our testing shows that a quick response is king.

#43 jrpytlak

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Posted 17 September 2006 - 07:54 PM

I think those guys were at NYYC week in Newport. They had the B36.7s one day wired and the Farrs the next day. It was extremely cool, and probably an awesome training tool.

The Vtek looks like just the ticket for smaller boats who want the speed/vmg readout too. Good shit coming out these days for racers - less art, more numbers.



I though they were on all boats all week.

#44 mungral

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 03:09 AM

now all they have to do is get it to control boats in virtual skipper 4.
so we can watch the racing in 3d.

#45 kraaken

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 03:29 AM

<< - less art, more numbers. >>

Öthe horror.

cheers,

Dana

#46 ronk

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 12:37 PM

Any news on when Mac users will be able to download data.

Does the S10 act as a USB mass storage device or does it require installing drivers on computers with XP?

The reason I ask is that is the reason it's XP only due to lack of testing on Macs or the need to write specific software?

#47 sirstopher

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 07:14 PM

So what is the huge difference in the S10 and lets say my Handheld Color GPS unit. I can track
or plot my coarse with the GPS, See my current speed, and have the compass heading? I can then
download my coarse into the playback software and watch where I sailed. I understand that
this is waterproof, and the GPS I have is water resistant. I also have on board instruments that give me wind speed,
wind direction, Boat speed, VMG, and depth. I love the idea of the product, but why should I buy one?

#48 DaveK

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Posted 18 September 2006 - 08:08 PM

I too wonder if I need something like this? Iím just a local lake racer. I barely ever look at a compass. Landmarks are the best way for me to tell if Iím headed or lifted when dinghy racing and you can just tell when you are getting headed on J22. I do think this is a cool device but, the VMG system I question as well. Our wind shifts are over 60 degrees and programming in a preset wind direction doesnít make sense. Now, if you could just add a little hole to your box that I could plug a sensored windex into then, that would rock and give me real time VMG.

Donít get me wrong. I do like your S10.

DaveK

#49 Velocitek

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 09:23 AM

Any news on when Mac users will be able to download data.

Does the S10 act as a USB mass storage device or does it require installing drivers on computers with XP?

The reason I ask is that is the reason it's XP only due to lack of testing on Macs or the need to write specific software?


The S10 needs the installation of drivers that are only available for Windows XP.

#50 Velocitek

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 09:47 AM

So what is the huge difference in the S10 and lets say my Handheld Color GPS unit. I can track
or plot my coarse with the GPS, See my current speed, and have the compass heading? I can then
download my coarse into the playback software and watch where I sailed. I understand that
this is waterproof, and the GPS I have is water resistant. I also have on board instruments that give me wind speed,
wind direction, Boat speed, VMG, and depth. I love the idea of the product, but why should I buy one?


If you already have instruments that give you accurate Speed and VMG measurements and these insruments are easy to set up and read then you may very wll be better off buying a $150 mass market GPS receiver. One benefit the S10 could still offer you is the ability to download tracks directly in the .gpx format required by GPS Action Replay and the .kml format required by Google Earth. Mass market receivers generally download data in a variety of proprietary formats that require third party software to convert to the .gpx format.

#51 Velocitek

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 09:56 AM

I too wonder if I need something like this? Iím just a local lake racer. I barely ever look at a compass. Landmarks are the best way for me to tell if Iím headed or lifted when dinghy racing and you can just tell when you are getting headed on J22. I do think this is a cool device but, the VMG system I question as well. Our wind shifts are over 60 degrees and programming in a preset wind direction doesnít make sense. Now, if you could just add a little hole to your box that I could plug a sensored windex into then, that would rock and give me real time VMG.

Donít get me wrong. I do like your S10.

DaveK


For you it probably isn't a wise investment. For a lot of people it is. The vast majority of those who bought our S5 (same on-the-water features as the S10 without the data storage function) were very happy with it and suprised at how much faster it made them. Here's a quote from earlier in this thread:

"Love the large display -- lets me use peripheral vision to keep an eye on speed.

I have the speedo-only unit and find it's cheaper than a new sail in terms of equivalent performance gain, and it keeps the crew focused on speed, too."

#52 Velocitek

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 10:03 AM

What are the update rates during playback? If I go out and tune with another boat, and each of us have one of these, does it automatically sync up the playback from both units, or is it just overlays of both boats tracks from all day? Cool idea either way.


Each GPS data point has a time and date stamp. GPS Action Replay automatically synchronizes the tracks from a fleet of boats to replay them accurately together. Data points are collected once every two seconds on the water. You can replay the races as fast or as slow as you like.

#53 Guest Anarchist AndyBaxter6_*

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 08:56 PM

I have been playing with www.oceanpilot.com for GPS data plotting. The VMG plot is terrible for long sessions, but splitting up the file into smaller segments can make it appear more accurate. No comparative analysis though...

#54 Guest Anarchist AndyBaxter6_*

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 09:02 PM

I have been playing with www.oceanpilot.com for GPS data plotting. The VMG plot is terrible for long sessions, but Ive split up the file into smaller segments and it doesnt look bad. No comparative analysis though...

#55 plaanaa

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Posted 19 September 2006 - 09:46 PM

I think this tool is cool. In racing I propably won't need it so much, maybe it will help there too (especially light winds), but for practising this is actually perfect. Absolutely.

You do not need instrument like this for large keelboat with all instruments installed already, but for sportsboats, dinghies, multihulls etc it's perfect. Also for Match-race, OD-races etc after-sail events (imagine that blaa-blaa and speculation), junior training etc etc.

I like it.

#56 Oxygen Mask

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 10:17 PM

Now the Velocitek site shows all units sold out (some "permanently") except the S10. Does this mean only the S10 will be available from now on? Does this mean the older units won't be supported if they need repair? Not criticising, just curious. Was the progression S3-S5 etc developmental and not actually an intent to offer various models?
Wish I had an S10 instead of the Tactic micro, which I am quite happy with (so far) BTW. Or at least was till now...

#57 Velocitek

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 10:37 PM

Now the Velocitek site shows all units sold out (some "permanently") except the S10. Does this mean only the S10 will be available from now on? Does this mean the older units won't be supported if they need repair? Not criticising, just curious. Was the progression S3-S5 etc developmental and not actually an intent to offer various models?
Wish I had an S10 instead of the Tactic micro, which I am quite happy with (so far) BTW. Or at least was till now...


The Speedcompass will be available again once we get on top of the demand for the S10. The S3 and S5 are gone for good. Right now, all our resources are focused on scaling up production of the S10 to meet the unexpectedly high demand for this product.

The S3-S5-S10 evolution was developmental. We have kept the old models on the site to make it clear that we have not disowned our earlier products. We continue to offer full warranty and repair support for S3 and S5 customers.

#58 Sailing Pro Shop

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Posted 06 October 2006 - 11:28 PM

We have in stock. the S10, S5, and the speed compass.

Free Shipping on all units.

#59 Pete M

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Posted 07 October 2006 - 01:36 AM

Xlnt tool. Xlnt customer service. We had the S3 and used it for a while on the 14. It then developed a problem and after a few emails velocitek sent us a S5, with the request we return the S3 for fault analysis. The new S5 worked great, and upon reflection, it is possible that there was nothing wrong with the old S3 beyond operator error. We used it in the VMG mode for practice and in the I14 worlds used it in speed mode to try to keep at target upwind. (In 14 Ė 15 kts upwind targets were 10 kts plus)

#60 Guest Anarchist wind driven_*

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 03:17 AM

I was trying to find out more, but the velocitek web site has vanished.
Does anyone know what's happened?

#61 Velocitek

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Posted 05 November 2006 - 04:40 AM

I was trying to find out more, but the velocitek web site has vanished.
Does anyone know what's happened?

We changed our url to sailgps.com and somehow the domain forward from velocitekspeed.com got broken. The Yahoo guys promise it will be straightened out in the next 48 hours. In the mean time please just go to www.sailgps.com.

#62 LakeBoy

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Posted 06 November 2006 - 02:02 AM

We changed our url to sailgps.com and somehow the domain forward from velocitekspeed.com got broken. The Yahoo guys promise it will be straightened out in the next 48 hours. In the mean time please just go to www.sailgps.com.


Have Dawg or Ed check the link on the fron tpage. I think it is directed to velocitek.us




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