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Ker's New 39


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#1 Momma

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 11:45 AM

New Production IRC39 from Ker,

http://www.kerdesign...duction_39.html


Looks awsome, high pricetag but high spec finish, should go well under the rule.

Momma

#2 GosZ

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 12:21 PM

All new ~40 footers are looking very similar .. Ker 39, NYYC 42, Mills. Who's following who? The 39 and 42 look similar to Tiamat .. just looking at the deck design ..

#3 KnockinShop

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 12:36 PM

What's it rate???

Looks like the standard Flying Glove style deck, rather than Mills...
The boat looks great. If it goes well and rates well, I make make a few suggestions to my owner !!!
Glad they changed the Jump/Magic Glove bow... Don't like that!

#4 us7070

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 01:07 PM

All new ~40 footers are looking very similar .. Ker 39, NYYC 42, Mills. Who's following who? The 39 and 42 look similar to Tiamat .. just looking at the deck design ..



i don't think it looks anything like the nyyc 42.

i see that kerr is offering a sprit version, which would be nice for performance-cruising/distance racing. price looks better than the j122.

who is building these?

#5 seapod

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 01:09 PM

Attached File  ScreenShot068.jpg   27.64K   235 downloadsAttached File  ScreenShot069.jpg   26.35K   212 downloadsAttached File  ScreenShot070.jpg   26.21K   412 downloadschment]here you go.

I like :)

#6 tuf-luf

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 01:12 PM

Those hi-res renderings are impressive!

Another v sexy Ker ride.

#7 us7070

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 01:15 PM

seems like you could have one on the water, reasonably well equiped, for USD 350k, which is ~75k less than the J122.

#8 Momma

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 01:18 PM

Being built in Thailand but don't know who. Overall layout (above and below deck) wise is very similar to Flying Glove (Why change something that works). Most obvious change to that is the 2 wheels - which is great for movement around the cockpit. Sail changes / access to the back rail for the surfy surfy stuff. Would be really intersting to see ho it fares against the Mills 39. Concepts seem to be similar.

#9 tuf-luf

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 01:33 PM

Is it just me or does the jib track/barber hauler set up in this rendering look a bit odd?

Track is way too short. No way the jib clew would ride like that given the sheet/barber hauler angles.

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#10 Two Tone

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 02:03 PM

Tuf Luf,

Spotted the deliberate mistake to see if anyone on SA is awake! Guess I should ask Teaky if he has anything on that desk of his...

Yes, it is the one small mistake on the renderings, but remember they are a (very accurate in all respects apart from that) graphical representation of the new yacht. The headsail used in the renderings was an undersized, low clew one - not a trimmer but a grahical expert!

I can personally guarantee the final product won't have the jib set like that!

#11 Marko

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 02:06 PM

flying gloves (now named erivale 3) is for sale in the current seahorse, so you could have one next wekeend if you really wanted !

#12 Waterpilot

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 02:18 PM

seems like you could have one on the water, reasonably well equiped, for USD 350k, which is ~75k less than the J122.





Try about $430K+ once your all done if you sail it here in the US

#13 tuf-luf

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 02:20 PM

Tuf Luf,

Spotted the deliberate mistake to see if anyone on SA is awake! Guess I should ask Teaky if he has anything on that desk of his...

Yes, it is the one small mistake on the renderings, but remember they are a (very accurate in all respects apart from that) graphical representation of the new yacht. The headsail used in the renderings was an undersized, low clew one - not a trimmer but a grahical expert!

I can personally guarantee the final product won't have the jib set like that!


No probs mate. I thought as much. One cannot expect one's graphic designers to all be a skilled trimmers. Must bug the crap out of you each time you see it though! :-)

#14 Hase

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 02:27 PM

Hi Marko,
How is it going?

This summer's generation was a small improvement over Fyling Glove. From what I know this Ker39 is a big step forwards from them, so even Flying Glove would find it tough going againt this new model.

#15 Marko

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 02:45 PM

Hi Marko,
How is it going?

This summer's generation was a small improvement over Fyling Glove. From what I know this Ker39 is a big step forwards from them, so even Flying Glove would find it tough going againt this new model.



Valencia calling, eh ?

We took the trusty 5 year old ker 11.3 down to Dartmouth this year and won class 1 too buddy.

#16 Hase

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 02:51 PM

Valencia calling, eh ?

We took the trusty 5 year old ker 11.3 down to Dartmouth this year and won class 1 too buddy.


Crew work is very important obviously but talk to the guys racing on or against Fair Do's and ask them if crew work was the deciding factor.

Anyway, how are things up there? Down here the local scene is good bad the level of racing is low. Went out few weeks ago and won two Rolex's (Owner kept them ofcourse :( ). They give them away down here. seriously.

#17 Marko

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 03:01 PM

i've seen enouigh of the latest fair dos this summer to know she is a very fast boat. Goes as the same speed as the farr 45s and rates 35 points lower !

the farr 45 racing is great (we had 10 out for vice-admirals) but the newer boats IRC-perform a lot better.

#18 Editor

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 03:45 PM

What a bitchin looking thing. And guess who just signed up as an advertiser here at SA? Ker! How cool.

#19 lastseenleaving

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 03:45 PM

What happened to the Ker 9.7 that Ovington Boats were to build, also did any more of those Fair Dos 46 clones ever get going and the Volvo 45- is this another fishing trip? The boat looks great but is a production run boat ever going to compete with a one off with the building of multiples as short cuts are usually made which usually results in extra weight in the boat which cannot go in the keel. Sorry but getting jaundiced by designers sending out press releases about boats which usually are built in a far away land so no one can see what is actually happening.

#20 Marko

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 04:02 PM

What happened to the Ker 9.7 that Ovington Boats were to build, also did any more of those Fair Dos 46 clones ever get going and the Volvo 45- is this another fishing trip? The boat looks great but is a production run boat ever going to compete with a one off with the building of multiples as short cuts are usually made which usually results in extra weight in the boat which cannot go in the keel. Sorry but getting jaundiced by designers sending out press releases about boats which usually are built in a far away land so no one can see what is actually happening.


what a nice psotiive contribution newbie.

I don't think any 9.8s were built, preobably because IRM wasn't getting traction, but I know that Vodoo Chile had her deck taken from that mould, so someone went to the cost of building a mould.

The Volvo 45 very nearly took off, but was scuppered by a change to the IRC rule for the (if memory is right) the 2004 season. There were about 4 owners ready to sign, and as they have all moved into DK46s/Roger46s/Farr 45s there was a market there and almost a design.

Where is this Far Away land ?
South Africa where the Gloves are built ?
Malaysia where the DKs are built ?
Cowes where Tiamat was built ?

Rather depends on your point of view, no ?

A good sales run for this would be a dozen, thats hardly mass-production.

#21 Jambalaya

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 04:13 PM

Looks great - very nice and has a good pedigree

(J122 is supposed to be stripped out, J133 is closer in concept to Ker 39)

#22 _DB

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 05:03 PM

Nice looking boat - I thought IRC was supposed make cheaper race boats than IMS?

Ker 39 for sale

This one is listed for $423k US used!!!

#23 moody frog

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 05:15 PM

Being built in Thailand but don't know who. Overall layout (above and below deck) wise is very similar to Flying Glove (Why change something that works). Most obvious change to that is the 2 wheels - which is great for movement around the cockpit. Sail changes / access to the back rail for the surfy surfy stuff. Would be really intersting to see ho it fares against the Mills 39. Concepts seem to be similar.


Built at CMI
http://<span class='...ine.com</span>/
like the Rogers 46 and Rogers Class 40

Watch the facility and watch the people, they started the same way in windsurfing in the late 80s early nineties, and now build 90 % of the big names brands. (easier to ship though)

#24 battenpoker

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 06:47 PM

[quote name='moody frog' date='Oct 12 2006, 06:15 PM' post='901410']
Built at CMI
http://<span class='...ine.com</span>/
like the Rogers 46 and Rogers Class 40

Watch the facility and watch the people, they started the same way in windsurfing in the late 80s early nineties, and now build 90 % of the big names brands. (easier to ship though)
[/quo

Anyone know what it will rate under IRC. Seems a pretty good price for what seems a very high spec construction and fitout.

#25 Momma

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 08:02 PM

I would guess somewhere close to Flying glove. She raced cowes week this year off 1.12 so i'd expect something similar to that.

#26 Jambalaya

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 08:30 PM

How much form stability doe these designs have - do they need a lot a crew to go upwind ?

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 10:01 PM

Ya I'd say you are probably right there.... maybe a little less.

My guess would be 1.105 or there abouts.......

ie jump + 2 feet - trip tab.


While looking nice I am not so sure about the practical advantages of two wheels..... She is only 39 feet and sail bags can go up as well as back!
Oh for the simple tiller on such a boat!
2 wheels seems to be the trend so I am obviously just not with it!

#28 George Hackett

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 10:28 PM

Tuf Luf,

Spotted the deliberate mistake to see if anyone on SA is awake! Guess I should ask Teaky if he has anything on that desk of his...

Yes, it is the one small mistake on the renderings, but remember they are a (very accurate in all respects apart from that) graphical representation of the new yacht. The headsail used in the renderings was an undersized, low clew one - not a trimmer but a grahical expert!

I can personally guarantee the final product won't have the jib set like that!



saw that too tuffie. what i have noticed is that kerr has gone back to the more generic bow for this design. i guess the ACC bows really didn't work well on irc?

#29 Yaz

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 11:11 PM

All new ~40 footers are looking very similar .. Ker 39, NYYC 42, Mills. Who's following who? The 39 and 42 look similar to Tiamat .. just looking at the deck design ..


Uh, this boat looks nothing like the NYYC 42. The 39 is actually sleek, sexy and high end in appearance, not a Beneteau look alike. To my eye the NYYC 42 looks like a bloody Hyundai in comparison.

#30 DickDastardly

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Posted 12 October 2006 - 11:21 PM

Like the way the fat stern fits two doubles down below and leaves heaps of space for gear hanging. Sweet, but a bit heavy for my tastes. IRC is promoting boats that are a bit too heavy IMHO. I race a 39 footer weighing 5050 and rating 1.112. But, at 6 tonnes disp this newbie will have huge amounts of stability. Could be a good boat for Sydhey - Hobart - hard on the nose guarranteed!

#31 mh111

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 01:04 AM

nice looking boat and i'm sure it'll be competitive to sail - if not price-wise

but why have the wheel ? one is too many, let alone 2

it's only 39' for heavens sake !

cheers,

#32 sailforbeer

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 01:20 AM

nice looking boat and i'm sure it'll be competitive to sail - if not price-wise

but why have the wheel ? one is too many, let alone 2

it's only 39' for heavens sake !

cheers,


I would guess that the rudder stock is fairly far forward, judging only from the stern overhang (I couldn't find a picture of below waterline on Ker's web site). With the stock that far forward, the tiller base would be forward and interfere with the traveler. Even if the traveler was moved aft, the tiller itself would likely extend to where the cockpit seats are drawn, and the helmsman would need a really long extension to get outboard enough to see forward. Starts and mark roundings would be a bitch with the helmsman there.

Two wheels versus one?? Again, maybe a function having beam carry aft. The boat would need a huge wheel with a deep recess to get the helmsman outboard. Maybe you could get it done without interfering with the berths below the cockpit, but then you get drain issues from the well, plus the annoyance of having lines snake their way into the well, but the twin wheels might be a more elegant solution that one massive wheel.

I agree, though, tillers are nice under 40' -- just tough on boats with beamy back ends.

Nice looking boat IMO.

#33 Momma

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 07:17 AM

Whay,

Post made the front page......legend. Yea you'll find due to design the rudder is quiet far forward, hence tiller is'nt really an option. On jump it is about level with the back of the cockpit seats.

#34 Momma

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 07:18 AM

sorry ...rudder.....it's early

#35 Two Tone

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 07:37 AM

Right, morning all...

To answer a few of the questions posted...

1. Stability and crew numbers etc. she is a very stable boat, as IRC does promote this - and she has plenty of both form and ballast stability. Crew weight wise, like any design out there, if you go racing, to maximise the performance you should have the full number of crew on board. Numbers wise - if you went from 9 to 7 say (at 87kg or 190lbs per person) on the rail then you would lose 12 seconds an hour on a windward leeward course in 10kts true and and 12 in 25kts true (quicker downhill) - though would be slightly faster in the lighter stuff. Just the same as any Cruiser/Racer, to maximise performance you sail with a full crew - though is fine to cruise/beercan with 2 or 3 on board - its not going to fall over in any sort of way.
2. Twin wheel - discussed long and hard here in the office and chatting to current owners and it is an advantage in getting jibs in and out of the hatch, makes it nicer to move around on both racing and crusing (stops people having to 'grab' the wheel on their way past!) and means we don't have to fit a huge wheel with a well. We feel its a much better solution, a tiller would be nice for a racing boat but this isn't a pure racing boat, and not really practical with the postion of the rudder (well spotted Sailforbeer)
3. Bow profile - Well, we had a bit of a marmite/vegimite siutation (the Brits and Antipodeans will get that) - love or hate - with the spoon bow. With the on going research program we have we've managed to get the same bow performance from a more usual profile - asthetics are important to us as well as performance. Overall though we've made significant gains on previous generations in terms of hull drag, having realised that our advantage was being eaten away while we made subtle refinements, we decided to kick our asses into gear and come up with something specia.

Those that think these are heavy, slow boats... please see the photo of Magic Glove (Ker 50) at Cowes Week.... I believe the technical phrase is 'hauling the mail'!! 23kts topped out at when the TP52's topped out at 24... Then we put the DVD player on when we went in while tidying up the boat....

Attached File  SCW06d_M9560.jpg   67.87K   390 downloads
Photo credit to OnEdition.

*edit - not enough coffee yet - you lose 12 secs an hour, not a mile!

#36 tuf-luf

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 08:14 AM

Magic Glove gives me a woodie... fack me that's serious boat porn.

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 09:44 AM

"From the same stable as the overall Top boats of the 2006 Rolex Commodores Cup........"

Most Ker boats were average at the commodores Cup,- Gloves being the best I think.

http://rorc.org/comc...lts/ccovos.html

Newest generation Class 2 ker boat was on twice the points of her class leader,- finishing mid fleet overall!

Saying that it would be great to see this type of boat take off...

Glam-est design for a performance production boat in a long long time!

#38 34 South

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 09:58 AM

Great boat, Two Tone

6 tons seems an aweful lot for a boat of this size, although it is in the ball park of similar IRC designs. Is it the optimum displacement for all round performance or is the boat being dumbed down to suit IRC?

The coach roof design seems to ba a bit of a signature now, is there a downside though, to having the winches tilted back like that.

34S

#39 Two Tone

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 10:13 AM

Roach,

Fair Do's VII (Ker 46) was top boat overall at the Commodore's Cup and Cowes Week while Magic Glove (Ker 50) was top boat at Cork Week (along with Jump Juice (Ker 37) winning her class)...

34 South,

Weight, well its quite a suitable figure really, for having a good, well made interior, heating, pressurised hot and cold water etc. They are designed as true all rounders - as for suiting IRC, they are still lightweight compared to Cruisers of the length (though much faster) and it is what the rule promotes. With the high tech build of the 39 (PVC cored Epoxy/E-Glass, no choppy, vacum bagged and post cured) then they are very stable - hence fast and safe.

The coachroof is a bit of a signature, been refined over the 4 generations we have done - the coach roof winches are actually extremely ergonomically and are more comfortable to use than a more traditional coach roof mounted winch. The angled also results in the line lead to the winch from the clutches being more favourable reducing the risk of overrides etc.

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 10:31 AM

[quote name='34 South' date='Oct 13 2006, 09:58 AM' post='902321']
Great boat, Two Tone

6 tons seems an aweful lot for a boat of this size, although it is in the ball park of similar IRC designs. Is it the optimum displacement for all round performance or is the boat being dumbed down to suit IRC?

The coach roof design seems to ba a bit of a signature now, is there a downside though, to having the winches tilted back like that.

34S


I would guess this boat has a very high DLR similar to the recent Mills 39 Mariners Cove.
Heavy displacement seems to be the way forward for this size of boat under IRC.

The 39 will probably be no star down wind as a result, but certainly won't be slow.

One certainly could not compare her to a 39 foot scaled down TP 52 as is somewhat inferred above....
Faster surfý boats are encouraged in the upper size range, (Gloves), but are penalised in the 30 to 40 foot range under IRC.
Mum 30,36, Ker 11.3 etc etc...

#41 Momma

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 10:38 AM

Two Tone,

The glove picture brings back memories.....specially with loyay hanging out the side....hav'nt laughed my ass off as much in a long time.

#42 Headstay

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 10:44 AM

Like the way the fat stern fits two doubles down below and leaves heaps of space for gear hanging. Sweet, but a bit heavy for my tastes. IRC is promoting boats that are a bit too heavy IMHO. I race a 39 footer weighing 5050 and rating 1.112. But, at 6 tonnes disp this newbie will have huge amounts of stability. Could be a good boat for Sydhey - Hobart - hard on the nose guarranteed!



This weight debate is intriguing me too - really well sailed but heavy 40-ish footers are being caned everywhere by light 50+ footers (esp TPs) which plane readily. I happen to really like the aesthetics of this Ker (but then I own a 40.7 and need a break from that boat not to mention a new boat - mine is 7t+ empty weight...) but if I buy one and get a bunch of rock stars to sail it, will it ever really beat the big boats? Buying a TP42 sounds the answer, but the IRC rating looks soooo punchy

You might argue this is irrelevant - win your class and you're sorted, but where I sail the fleet is small and we do get thrown together

#43 34 South

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 10:53 AM

It seems to me that IRC has gone over the top in favouring heavy boats in this size range. Most off-shore racing and certainly most cruising is done down wind so why do you need such extremes in displacement. I agree with the safety argument and a moderate displacement should be favoured. In round the buoys racing having enough crew on the rail should more than make up for a reduction in bulb mass.

We had a Reichel Pugh 37 down here that weighed 3,560 kgs. That is probably on the other extreme, but she won a transatlantic race that had a couple of heavy days to windward. So she was certain safe and stable enough.

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 11:02 AM

Roach,

Fair Do's VII (Ker 46) was top boat overall at the Commodore's Cup and Cowes Week while Magic Glove (Ker 50) was top boat at Cork Week (along with Jump Juice (Ker 37) winning her class)...

34 South,

Weight, well its quite a suitable figure really, for having a good, well made interior, heating, pressurised hot and cold water etc. They are designed as true all rounders - as for suiting IRC, they are still lightweight compared to Cruisers of the length (though much faster) and it is what the rule promotes. With the high tech build of the 39 (PVC cored Epoxy/E-Glass, no choppy, vacum bagged and post cured) then they are very stable - hence fast and safe.

The coachroof is a bit of a signature, been refined over the 4 generations we have done - the coach roof winches are actually extremely ergonomically and are more comfortable to use than a more traditional coach roof mounted winch. The angled also results in the line lead to the winch from the clutches being more favourable reducing the risk of overrides etc.



Forgot about the mighty Fair Do's...
Was not questioning the Cowes/Cork week results.
My point was the K36/37 were no shining stars at Commodores that all.
Well done them in Cork though.

#45 us7070

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 11:14 AM

Right, morning all...

To answer a few of the questions posted...

1. Stability and crew numbers etc. she is a very stable boat, as IRC does promote this - and she has plenty of both form and ballast stability. Crew weight wise, like any design out there, if you go racing, to maximise the performance you should have the full number of crew on board. Numbers wise - if you went from 9 to 7 say (at 87kg or 190lbs per person) on the rail then you would lose 12 seconds an hour on a windward leeward course in 10kts true and and 12 in 25kts true (quicker downhill) - though would be slightly faster in the lighter stuff. Just the same as any Cruiser/Racer, to maximise performance you sail with a full crew - though is fine to cruise/beercan with 2 or 3 on board - its not going to fall over in any sort of way.

*edit - not enough coffee yet - you lose 12 secs an hour, not a mile!


Say someone wanted a 40fter for double-handed distance racing (under IRC), and "performance" weekend cruising, would this boat (with the optional sprit), or something similar work ok? What mods would you make to optimize it a bit more in that direction..., e.g. heavier bulb?

#46 Momma

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 11:23 AM

Whatever about the 36. I sailed on the '37 in the commodores cup. What I would say is that we definately needed more time to work the boat up. The trim tab is a new complexity that requires quiet a bit of understanding and changing the way you sail the boat. I have no doubt that the boat is fundamentaly a fast boat just could have done with moving our whole campaign back 6 months. But thats life...you live & learn.

#47 dogwatch

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 11:36 AM

Most off-shore racing....... is done down wind.


Not in the UK. The popular cross-channel races are upwind in the prevailing wind direction, while events like the Commodore's Cup use set courses which are designed to include windward legs.

#48 Schmoo

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 11:45 AM

Forgot about the mighty Fair Do's...
Was not questioning the Cowes/Cork week results.
My point was the K36/37 were no shining stars at Commodores that all.
Well done them in Cork though.


I was on that Ker 37 too. One of the main problems was that to fit into the Commodores Cup band with a tab, the sail area took a bit of a hammering, probably too much so in hindsight. Cork week was a different beast. Without the band restrictions we upped the fore and aft sail area, did a few mods to the sail shape and moved the mast in the boat. She was a different animal then. As Momma said, with a trim tab, technology which was new to us, there was and still is a steep learning curve.

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 11:57 AM

I was on that Ker 37 too. One of the main problems was that to fit into the Commodores Cup band with a tab, the sail area took a bit of a hammering, probably too much so in hindsight. Cork week was a different beast. Without the band restrictions we upped the fore and aft sail area, did a few mods to the sail shape and moved the mast in the boat. She was a different animal then. As Momma said, with a trim tab, technology which was new to us, there was and still is a steep learning curve.



Cork week, wasn't Jump neck and neck with the Mills here?
Jump had Commodores Crew, Mills did not!
Thus result while great is not a fair reflection of relative performances....

Would say the 39 would give the Mills a good run for her money though.

#50 Schmoo

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 12:11 PM

Cork week, wasn't Jump neck and neck with the Mills here?
Jump had Commodores Crew, Mills did not!
Thus result while great is not a fair reflection of relative performances....

Would say the 39 would give the Mills a good run for her money though.


Jump had 4 crew changes between Commodores and Cork. Mariners had similar amount. Both were crewed by amateurs (Group 1 &2) for Cork.

I'd say that being neck and neck was a fair reflection as the boats have different performance profiles. The Mills is really good upwind in chop and a bit of breeze and has longer waterline when reaching. The Ker is good in flatter water upwind and breeze downwind. We had a mix of conditions in Cork.

All in all I'd say it was good competitive tight racing!

Mariners was faster at Commodores. After rig mods, Jump closed the gap to where they are pretty close now and results are probably down to what conditions suited a particular boat on a given day.

Just my 2c!

#51 Zap

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 01:58 PM

What happened to the Ker 9.7 that Ovington Boats were to build, also did any more of those Fair Dos 46 clones ever get going and the Volvo 45- is this another fishing trip? The boat looks great but is a production run boat ever going to compete with a one off with the building of multiples as short cuts are usually made which usually results in extra weight in the boat which cannot go in the keel. Sorry but getting jaundiced by designers sending out press releases about boats which usually are built in a far away land so no one can see what is actually happening.





As far as the 9.8 was concerned, Ovi built plugs for both the hull and deck, and a splash mould was taken off the deck plug and trimmed a little to fit Voodoo. Regarding the quality control of a production boat from Jason's board, I would have to say that I would not be worried at all, as his attention to detail is second to none. I'd say he will sit on the builders and insist on a top notch build. Obviously, a one-off should be better, but it would cost in the region of 2 to 3 times what this has been quoted at; and correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is quite good value....? It certainly raised our eyebrows as to our next boat!

#52 tuf-luf

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 04:51 PM

One thing that strikes me bigtime about this thread is the sheer number of newbies (w <50 posts) having bold opinions about boat weight and thoughts on supposed IRC preferences/leanings and pontifications about IRC rule interpretations relative to this obviously very horny yacht.

It makes one wonder why so many of you guys show up when such a sweet new boat gets covered in an SA thread and yet never participate in all of the other great threads going on in SA... and whether or not you are just Ker competitors skulking here to fuck with this cool gig.

Sorry to sound so cynical.

I dunno... maybe I just need to dial back the Prozac...

#53 munch

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 05:00 PM

[quote name='Two Tone' date='Oct 13 2006, 11:13 AM' post='902329']
Roach,

Fair Do's VII (Ker 46) was top boat overall at the Commodore's Cup and Cowes Week while Magic Glove (Ker 50) was top boat at Cork Week (along with Jump Juice (Ker 37) winning her class)...

34 South,

Weight, well its quite a suitable figure really, for having a good, well made interior, heating, pressurised hot and cold water etc. They are designed as true all rounders - as for suiting IRC, they are still lightweight compared to Cruisers of the length (though much faster) and it is what the rule promotes. With the high tech build of the 39 (PVC cored Epoxy/E-Glass, no choppy, vacum bagged and post cured) then they are very stable - hence fast and safe.

The coachroof is a bit of a signature, been refined over the 4 generations we have done - the coach roof winches are actually extremely ergonomically and are more comfortable to use than a more traditional coach roof mounted winch. The angled also results in the line lead to the winch from the clutches being more favourable reducing the risk of overrides etc.
[/quot
Hey two tone, so whats the likely IRC rating?. This boat is a bit heavier than Flying Glove but will it get down to the Jump rating(1.103 or something like that) as is being inferred. Also why not a trim tab this time. Mariners cove seems to have similar dimensions but is heavier than this new Ker 39. Any chance that the ballast ratio can be revealed.

#54 munch

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 05:00 PM

[quote name='Two Tone' date='Oct 13 2006, 11:13 AM' post='902329']
Roach,

Fair Do's VII (Ker 46) was top boat overall at the Commodore's Cup and Cowes Week while Magic Glove (Ker 50) was top boat at Cork Week (along with Jump Juice (Ker 37) winning her class)...

34 South,

Weight, well its quite a suitable figure really, for having a good, well made interior, heating, pressurised hot and cold water etc. They are designed as true all rounders - as for suiting IRC, they are still lightweight compared to Cruisers of the length (though much faster) and it is what the rule promotes. With the high tech build of the 39 (PVC cored Epoxy/E-Glass, no choppy, vacum bagged and post cured) then they are very stable - hence fast and safe.

The coachroof is a bit of a signature, been refined over the 4 generations we have done - the coach roof winches are actually extremely ergonomically and are more comfortable to use than a more traditional coach roof mounted winch. The angled also results in the line lead to the winch from the clutches being more favourable reducing the risk of overrides etc.
[/quot
Hey two tone, so whats the likely IRC rating?. This boat is a bit heavier than Flying Glove but will it get down to the Jump rating(1.103 or something like that) as is being inferred. Also why not a trim tab this time. Mariners cove seems to have similar dimensions but is heavier than this new Ker 39. Any chance that the ballast ratio can be revealed.

#55 ya right!

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 06:38 PM

One thing that strikes me bigtime about this thread is the sheer number of newbies (w <50 posts) having bold opinions about boat weight and thoughts on supposed IRC preferences/leanings and pontifications about IRC rule interpretations relative to this obviously very horny yacht.

It makes one wonder why so many of you guys show up when such a sweet new boat gets covered in an SA thread and yet never participate in all of the other great threads going on in SA... and whether or not you are just Ker competitors skulking here to fuck with this cool gig.

Sorry to sound so cynical.

I dunno... maybe I just need to dial back the Prozac...



Sweet boat obviously Tuff luff hence the levels of interest, curious comment, questions.
Other than that you speak crap my man!
Respect to all the anarchists but doesn't this place pride itself on free speach toall!
So let me get your straight, a measure of a sailors knowledge basis is index linked tot he number of posts on SA!

Dude up the dosage and the little blue rabbits will come out of their burrows and sing to you!

#56 KnockinShop

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 08:56 PM

Hey Tuf Luff.
It seems a few of the guys posting on this subject are "newbies", but I have sailed with a few, and am involved with them in sailing 2 of the Kers. Most here are supporting Ker, or just curious it seems.

To echo the newbie view, this boat looks very interesting. Hopefully there will be a few builds so it get's a "production" rating.

#57 KnockinShop

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 09:10 PM

I should say that they are newbies to posting... long time lurkers!
And plenty of hot-boat knowledge!

#58 usa25889

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Posted 13 October 2006 - 10:36 PM

This boat is sweeeet. The only thing, while it doesn't make sense down below and in the cockpit, I still like those destroyer wheels for style points. Or at least a sick IRC tiller set up.

#59 34 South

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 06:13 AM

One thing that strikes me bigtime about this thread is the sheer number of newbies (w <50 posts) having bold opinions about boat weight and thoughts on supposed IRC preferences/leanings and pontifications about IRC rule interpretations relative to this obviously very horny yacht.

It makes one wonder why so many of you guys show up when such a sweet new boat gets covered in an SA thread and yet never participate in all of the other great threads going on in SA... and whether or not you are just Ker competitors skulking here to fuck with this cool gig.

Sorry to sound so cynical.

I dunno... maybe I just need to dial back the Prozac...


Hey, Tuf, I agree with your Prozac idea.

Don't be so threatened by newbies, remember you get newbie sailors and newbie SA posters, two very different animals. I'll admit I have been lurking for a while, and enjoy the site.

If I was a competitor to Ker, I'd be looking for a new job about now. With designs like Aera, AC Shosholoza and assorted Gloves under his belt he has quite a record. He is also bringing a new style to his designs, rather than trotting out the same old, same old like other designers.

Newbie 34S

#60 Mr. Squirrel

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 04:18 PM

I really like the look of this boat. Does anyone have any experience with its performance in light air. Our sailing location is predominantly 0-10 knots and would be curious how the boat performs both upwind and downwind in those conditions.

Regards,
MS

#61 Delta Dog

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Posted 14 October 2006 - 09:36 PM

One thing that strikes me bigtime about this thread is the sheer number of newbies (w <50 posts) having bold opinions about boat weight and thoughts on supposed IRC preferences/leanings and pontifications about IRC rule interpretations relative to this obviously very horny yacht.

It makes one wonder why so many of you guys show up when such a sweet new boat gets covered in an SA thread and yet never participate in all of the other great threads going on in SA... and whether or not you are just Ker competitors skulking here to fuck with this cool gig.

Sorry to sound so cynical.

I dunno... maybe I just need to dial back the Prozac...


Newbi or not - the fact is these IRC boat are heavy. Built well over 20 years ago, the fast is fun boats from santa cruz are far lighter. This was before carbon, before bulb keels, before titanium anything, largely before kelvar / carbon sails and before spectra rigging. We have far more technology at our hands to build lighter boats and yet we have design rules that promote heavy racing boats. Long, light boats with modest sail area are fast and easy to sails without big crews. Lower loads mean the boat and equipment holds up better,,, etc, etc, etc. Nothing new about this story.

What amazes me is that the facts in hand about light boat and all the new technology available, that he owners and designer are still back to sailing heavy - though fast - design.

Seems a shame to me.

...pass me a prozac as well.

#62 Two Tone

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Posted 15 October 2006 - 10:17 AM

In response to the queries we've had about performance of the yacht in various condtions..

The Ker 39 is a true all rounder - something which all our Cruiser/racer designs are which is borne out by the results of our Generation 3 designs - both Magic Glove (Ker 50) and Jump Juice (Ker 37) won their respective classes at Cork Week this year (infact, Magic Glove won boat of the Regatta) in predominantly light conditions while Fair Do’s VII (Ker 46) got top boat overall in Cowes Week in a mainly heavy air regatta. Also, Snow Lion (Ker 50) won her IRC class by hours on the light Bermuda race this year (another Generation 3 design). The Ker 39 is a Generation 4 design and we are very excited about the increase in performance we have gained from our continuing research and development program when compared to the previous Gen 3 designs.

As for what the IRC Rule promotes (or not - it is a closed rule) design wise - these are not only fast but safe designs, good all rounders. Lighter weight designs maybe more fun downhill but uphill for 3 days in the Fastnet or Hobart, I know which I would rather be on! I wouldn't say they are heavy, more moderate displacement for what she carries (full interior that sleeps 8, hot and cold pressurised water, optional heating etc), good stability (CE classification A for Ocean going yachts) and designed to ABS scantling rules, strong and durable build (high quality cored epoxy laminates, vacum bagged and post cured). This is not the thread to get into a debate about the IRC rule, that has been done over and over again.....

#63 KnockinShop

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 11:37 AM

Delta Dog, Jason Ker's boats are not heavy water pushers...
They are fitted out to be dual purpose, but they surf and maintain high speeds...
Not quite as surfy as a Mumm 30, but they take a wave and surf it well (As I experienced yesterday on Jump Juice!).

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 12:40 PM

Delta Dog, Jason Ker's boats are not heavy water pushers...
They are fitted out to be dual purpose, but they surf and maintain high speeds...
Not quite as surfy as a Mumm 30, but they take a wave and surf it well (As I experienced yesterday on Jump Juice!).



To mention a Mumm 30, Jump Juice and surfing in one sentence is stretching the imagination a little here KS.

'Not quite as sufy....."...as you say..............
Lets take the blinkers off here!

If any Mumm was next to you on Jump at the weather mark yesterday, it is clear who would be in front by MILES at the bottom corner!

Jump sitting on her side for 1 min appart!

#65 KnockinShop

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Posted 16 October 2006 - 01:20 PM

Haha... I was hoping noone would mention that little mishap... Oops!

I didn't mean to suggest they are similar in pace, but it will "sit up" more than the rest of the normal boats....
The Ker 32s love to surf... nice hull shape for it as you may have seen yesterday.

#66 Momma

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 01:34 PM

Knockin,

Are you trying to break boats again? I think you have a fetish for spectacular wipeouts......Hope all is well in the South.

#67 skew

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 01:49 PM

what is the deal with all these small boats using split wheels. in the pics it looks awkward to steer upwind as you can't straddle the wheel and offshore it look's like it would be a nightmare to guide the boat downwind in heavy air and big waves. plus i think a big badass carbon wheel would make the boat look even cooler than it does now. i agree that the nyyc looks like a beneteau. there is no way the powers that be would have chosen a cool boat at a reasonable cost.

Why no tiller? I would hope there is a tiller option. I think the marketing people want the split wheel because 1. wheels consume less cockpit space then tillers and 2. one can walk between the split wheel (even better). I think the split wheel is a boat-handling related compromise made purely for marketing purposes.

#68 Two Tone

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 02:28 PM

As has been mentioned before, the tiller is not an option due to where the rudder stock is situated (quite far forward in the cockpit for optimum rudder location).

As for the twin wheels - its not a only a marketing choice, due to the beam of the boat it would have to be a large single wheel (with the associated deep well - which can be a rope trap) hence we have gone for two wheels, which does not only allow a clear walk way and sail handling route but also allows the driver better forward vision, no one having to 'grab' the wheel on their way aft when going to leeward and also some redundancy when offshore.

#69 us7070

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 02:51 PM

As has been mentioned before, the tiller is not an option due to where the rudder stock is situated (quite far forward in the cockpit for optimum rudder location).

As for the twin wheels - its not a only a marketing choice, due to the beam of the boat it would have to be a large single wheel (with the associated deep well - which can be a rope trap) hence we have gone for two wheels, which does not only allow a clear walk way and sail handling route but also allows the driver better forward vision, no one having to 'grab' the wheel on their way aft when going to leeward and also some redundancy when offshore.



I have no problem with twin wheels - I have found them to be great on bigger boats that this 39fter. I guess this size is sort of in-between. I agree with what you are saying about the problem with a single wheel being too big, but these twin wheels seem like they are maybe on the small side. it looks as if if a small recess were made in the coaming, adjacent to the wheel, the wheels could be a few inches larger in diameter, without hindering the ability to walk between them.

#70 KnockinShop

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 03:05 PM

Knockin,

Are you trying to break boats again? I think you have a fetish for spectacular wipeouts......Hope all is well in the South.


Well you flip my boat, I flip yours!!!
All's cool...
Don't study too hard over yonder!

#71 Two Tone

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 03:59 PM

i still see a problem steering downwind in heavy air with big seas. i picture my self being hunched over a little wheel with out much leverage. i agree that twin wheels make sense at some length like 50' or more but the scale seems too small for boats under that length. i have a large recessed wheel on a 38' boat and have never had lines in the well because of a mesh gaurd.


I can understand the reasoning, but these are 950mm diameter wheels, at an ergonomic height to allow you to stand upright and with a suitable ratio to give the correct leverage. The wheels are the same diameter as those on our 50' design, so we are totally confident of the whole system design

#72 skew

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 04:09 PM

i still see a problem steering downwind in heavy air with big seas. i picture my self being hunched over a little wheel with out much leverage. i agree that twin wheels make sense at some length like 50' or more but the scale seems too small for boats under that length. i have a large recessed wheel on a 38' boat and have never had lines in the well because of a mesh gaurd.

I understand the issue with the rudder stock being too far forward and precluding a tiller. However it does seem to me that there are very few of these really cool 38'-43'boats being designed nowdays that have tillers. I guess that is because of the rudder placement (apparently in this case) or the fact that prospective owners don't want them. I for one would want one. I really wish I could put a tiller on my J120, but alas, no can do.
I have a question: May of these new designs are being driven by new rules such as IRC and box rules. Is there something about these rules that pushes designers towards a wheel? Do the new rules force the rudder forward or is there lots of credit for having wheels? Just wondering.
Also, I think that one drawback of a wheel well is that it cuts (drastically) the access to the stern of the boat from underneath the cockpit floor. Plus it puts a big "slice" athwardships in the middle of the cockpit with may compromise its use as a structural componant.

#73 sf_racer

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Posted 17 October 2006 - 11:42 PM

flying gloves (now named erivale 3) is for sale in the current seahorse, so you could have one next wekeend if you really wanted !



Marko,

Jayzus, Mike G didn't hold onto her for too long did he. Why's he selling it so soon? I remember seeing her on the hard in Dublin being commissioned just before she went down to Cork Week 04'. Looked sexy then and still does today.

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 09:44 PM

I have nt heard much on the Ker 39 in a while. Does anyone know howmany are in build....... and significantly what they will rate off of???

#75 lucas

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Posted 19 July 2007 - 10:27 PM

I have nt heard much on the Ker 39 in a while. Does anyone know howmany are in build....... and significantly what they will rate off of???

There was a thread about two weeks ago about the build of the production 39's. Designer was active in that one as well.

looking for the thread now...

Found it: http://www.sailingan...x...0&p=1244059

#76 Jason Ker

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 05:45 PM

quote name='roach' date='Jul 19 2007, 10:44 PM' post='1266790']
I have nt heard much on the Ker 39 in a while. Does anyone know howmany are in build....... and significantly what they will rate off of???
[/quote]

Finally we have a boat launched and sailing, the yacht in the pictures was launched last Wednesday (these pics are from brief sea trials) and won Class zero at the weekend at the Red Funnel, the second yacht is in the South of France being commissioned, the third is almost ready to leave the factory a fourth is mid-build.

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#77 Blur

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 06:27 PM

Finally we have a boat launched and sailing

Sweeeeet!!!

#78 Wacka Elvis

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Posted 24 March 2008 - 07:19 PM

looks nice - seems the jibs LP has been pushed pretty hard - look at the angle the leach comes out of the clew...




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