Jump to content


Cold Molded Boats


  • Please log in to reply
203 replies to this topic

#1 Off Watch

Off Watch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 545 posts
  • Location:Portland
  • Interests:Performance Sailboats
    Sailmaking
    Boatbuilding and Repair
    Offshore Sailing

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:12 AM

I can remember lots of really hot boats that were built using the cold molding process. From what I can tell they have held up pretty good, maybe better then fiberglass.

Whats your experience as far as maintanence and deterioration on cold molded boats?

Is this not a practical method to build boat from today?

#2 Ned

Ned

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,582 posts
  • Location:Wahiawa, Oahu

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:17 AM

if correctly maintained they will hold up very well.

The newer high modulus materials are better for one offs. Higher performance, lower density. At the time cold molded was it, now superceded.

Still a viable way to make a boat. But seriously labor intensive.

#3 Rapscallion

Rapscallion

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,627 posts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:18 AM

I can remember lots of really hot boats that were built using the cold molding process. From what I can tell they have held up pretty good, maybe better then fiberglass.

Whats your experience as far as maintanence and deterioration on cold molded boats?

Is this not a practical method to build boat from today?



Cold Molded processes seem to still be in favor with home builders. Check out Boat design forums. Production boats are a different story. Resin infusion has all kind of advantages, as long as you have the talent and equipment to pull it off.

#4 Secret Experiment

Secret Experiment

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 187 posts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:26 AM

I can remember lots of really hot boats that were built using the cold molding process. From what I can tell they have held up pretty good, maybe better then fiberglass.

Whats your experience as far as maintanence and deterioration on cold molded boats?

Is this not a practical method to build boat from today?



No problems with my 20 year old hull. No rot, no delamination, no nothing except a couple of stains where water's got past the epoxy, or maybe the epoxy didn't saturate. King Billy, so it won't rot. The two-pac topcoat needs a bit of TLC, only 10 years since it was resprayed but the boat has been used heavily.

Main issue is the wood is pretty soft. compared to glass. Dings so easy. But I'd buy buy another one (the plywood deck is a different matter.................)

Pretty expensive these days, I'd reckon, all that labour. Build 'em in China perhaps ;)

#5 Jollymon

Jollymon

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 610 posts
  • Location:Pacific NW

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:34 AM

Raps is right. Lots of small boats (kayaks, canoes, etc) that are built in the garage are strip built. There's a company up in the Seattle area that has plans for sailboats that look nice, but again, small boats for home building. But there is a lot of work making them, so for a yard to make them is very expensive now.

But they are pretty. The Northwest has had it's share of them like:

Challenger
Hagar
Aurora
High Noon (from SF Bay)


And my favorite--Nightrunner!!

JM

#6 Off Watch

Off Watch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 545 posts
  • Location:Portland
  • Interests:Performance Sailboats
    Sailmaking
    Boatbuilding and Repair
    Offshore Sailing

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:39 AM

Raps is right. Lots of small boats (kayaks, canoes, etc) that are built in the garage are strip built. There's a company up in the Seattle area that has plans for sailboats that look nice, but again, small boats for home building. But there is a lot of work making them, so for a yard to make them is very expensive now.

But they are pretty. The Northwest has had it's share of them like:

Challenger
Hagar
Aurora
High Noon (from SF Bay)
And my favorite--Nightrunner!!

JM

Got to love Nightrunner.

You forgot Magic Carpet

#7 Mr Adventure (aka craig)

Mr Adventure (aka craig)

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,244 posts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:40 AM

Having owned a few boats of all types of construction except carbon and kevlar I can say that well done cold moulding using good materials is the best way to build boats

I have owned two cold moulded boats over the last 15 years and each was superb as to construction durability and weight

but it all depends on the builder and the skill level

if there is a problem it is with people just drill holes for fittings etc and don't waterproof properly but other than that it is all good

#8 Mr Adventure (aka craig)

Mr Adventure (aka craig)

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,244 posts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:48 AM

No problems with my 20 year old hull. No rot, no delamination, no nothing except a couple of stains where water's got past the epoxy, or maybe the epoxy didn't saturate. King Billy, so it won't rot. The two-pac topcoat needs a bit of TLC, only 10 years since it was resprayed but the boat has been used heavily.

Main issue is the wood is pretty soft. compared to glass. Dings so easy. But I'd buy buy another one (the plywood deck is a different matter.................)

Pretty expensive these days, I'd reckon, all that labour. Build 'em in China perhaps ;)



strip plank a new deck out of king billy pine

works for me

c

#9 ntman

ntman

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,483 posts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 06:21 AM

here is a bit of a hippy question but does anyone think cold moulding will come back into fashion as a renewable resource type thing?

#10 hi-n-dry

hi-n-dry

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 201 posts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 06:59 AM

Look through the Gudgeon Bros. book and see all the work that goes into a cold molded boat. The process seems simple because everything can be done with "hand" tools and readily available materials. But it's incredibly labor intensive. In comparison, look at Ian Farrier's website, and see how quickly and easily a carbon/glass/foam boat goes together.

Also, since the early 80s when cold molding was last popular, the cost of wood has gone up, while carbon and foam have come down, relatively speaking.

#11 SemiSalt

SemiSalt

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,562 posts
  • Location:WLIS

Posted 23 February 2007 - 04:33 PM

here is a bit of a hippy question but does anyone think cold moulding will come back into fashion as a renewable resource type thing?


No, at least not exactly. And if it does, it's just a fad, not a serious help to the environment. The total weight of material that goes into boats in the US in a year is probably less than one medium size apartment building.

A few years ago, I would have said the most popular building method for (large, professionally built) one-off wooden boats was strip planking with cold-molded veneer. It's really a way of building with a mold that becomes part of the boat. Not sure if that's still true.

Amateurs are stuck on plywood. Mostly they now have a glass sheath set in epoxy. The "renewable resource" movement would push toward using ply from easily renewed species as a core between layers of glass.

True cold molding was always pretty expensive due to the labor. There just happened to be a window of time where the rules called for lighter boats than could be strip-planked and the cold molding was cheaper than the one-off glass constructions available at the time.

#12 TheBoathouse

TheBoathouse

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,575 posts
  • Location:Casco Bay, Maine
  • Interests:Sailing, Skiing, travelling with family, support boat 470 fleet

Posted 23 February 2007 - 04:38 PM

here is a bit of a hippy question but does anyone think cold moulding will come back into fashion as a renewable resource type thing?


Ah last time I checked Epoxy was not a renewable resource :o As far as longevity Mr. Jumpa is still out there sailing 30 years later (although with a bastardized Mumm 36 keel instead of a centerboard)

Posted Image

#13 Antony

Antony

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,749 posts
  • Location:Northridge, California

Posted 23 February 2007 - 04:53 PM

When we began the 40 project, we discussed using wood over foam to get an IRC credit, but discarded the idea as impractical from an economic standpoing. I did however, think a wood boat would look cool.

My personal favorite is Checkmate. Although Christine (the old one was cool). Now there's an interesting story. Christine hits the water. She's 84 feet long and SoCal PHRF is stymied as to how she should get rated. Never having given a minus number, the went with 0. Remember, that in the day, IOR was the thing, so all the fast boats (Merlin, Drifter, et al) never bothered with SoCal PHRF.

But the owner wanted to do Wednesday nights...on an 84. Pretty quickly the rating was dropped to -60 and the negative wagon got hitched to PHRF.

Christine was a really cool looking boat. Dark Cold molded, clear coated hull with a single, sunflower yellow backslash. Very cool...

#14 suider

suider

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,238 posts
  • Location:portland, maine, usa

Posted 23 February 2007 - 04:58 PM

um, haji might have a thing or two to say about cold molding?

/c


ps. great pic of mr jumpa, boathouse!

#15 White Trash 216

White Trash 216

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 88 posts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:31 PM

I can remember lots of really hot boats that were built using the cold molding process. From what I can tell they have held up pretty good, maybe better then fiberglass.

Whats your experience as far as maintanence and deterioration on cold molded boats?

Is this not a practical method to build boat from today?


I and several friends have (hot) molded Thistles that date well over 50years, those boats are competitive with brand new fiberglass boats. The Thistle class had a proposal a couple years ago from a builder in Maine who inquired about building woodies, the class said no because it was expected to be expensive and they didn't want people to have the impression that the "new" woodies would be super boats which could hurt the class. For the class, it was probably a good choice but new wood boats would've been cool.

It's the best way to build a light and fast sport-fish boat. Sport-fish builders like F&S; Weaver Boatworks; et al are building big FAST and really sweet custom boats that will blow the doors off of most plastic boats. In the sailing world it's large one-off custom pleasure boats being built by builders such as Hodgedon; Brooklin; French & Webb; and many others. I don't know if you'll see wood racing sailboats again anytime soon however. Like any other one-off method it's expensive but there are a lot of expensive custom boats out there. I'd think if you're looking to spend the money on a custom one-off race boat you would want the most trick composite boat possible which would mean things like carbon fibre, not mahogany

#16 #13

#13

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,656 posts
  • Location:San Francisco Bay
  • Interests:Antrim 27 and Mercury owner

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:36 PM

Got to love Nightrunner.

You forgot Magic Carpet



Let's not forget Sweet Okole or Absolute Sadie / 80 here on SF Bay.
One of Wylie's Gemini Twins is still campaigned and maintained in perfect condition, too.
Still going strong after 30+ years.
Cheers,
#13

#17 See LEVEL

See LEVEL

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 152 posts
  • Location:The far side of the Bend

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:41 PM

As I recall HIGH NOON was built using the plank on frame method, but we cant leave SNOOK out of the best cold molded in the PNW

#18 TeamFugu

TeamFugu

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,084 posts
  • Location:SLC, UT
  • Interests:Sailing skiffs, racing, rigging, et al.

Posted 23 February 2007 - 05:44 PM

First cold molding is much different from the cedar strip used to make kayaks and canoes. Though properly done, cold molded boats last a lifetime with regular maint., they are lighter than most polyester resin & glass boats but not as light as the newer carbon/kevlar/foam boats. I have made several cedar strip boats and I have a friend with an old Dutch built cold molded FD. The boats are quite stiff and taking more of a pounding without failing than most would think. The FD is over 30 years old and still solid. Wood boats don't lend themselves to production because they are very labor intensive. You can't knock a hull out in a day like you can a molded boat. Wood boats will live on but I don't think they will return to former glory with commercial builders.

As for being renewable, wood hulls aren't all that renewable. The only thing you can do to reuse the resource is to burn them and hope all the CO2 gets used to make a new tree. Old boats usually end up in land fills or deep sixed. Another thing to think of is that probably over 50% of the tree turns into unusable sawdust.

All that being said, I love a good wood boat and love to build them. Too bad I don't have space or the cash to build a big one.

#19 USA-7

USA-7

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,147 posts
  • Location:Massachusetts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 06:10 PM

This boat built in Holland in 1965 Doesburg was recently hauled out of a cellar, stripped and varnished, rerigged
and won a regatta. It is absolutely as good as any epoxy boat in the class.
Posted Image

#20 idrawboats

idrawboats

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 42 posts
  • Location:Mainiac
  • Interests:beethoven and ultaviolence...

Posted 23 February 2007 - 07:13 PM

A catamaran was recently launched at Schooner Creek boat works, using cedar planking on either side of a foam core, and composite skins. Similar to Ocean Planet which they also built. Seems to be a viable option.

#21 Bob Perry

Bob Perry

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,115 posts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 10:19 PM

We just launched two boats built with cold molded veneers over foam. I expect we will do more.

My NIGHTRUNNER designed for Doug Fryer has almost 30 years on it now and more ocean miles under it than I can count and it's still going strong. It looks a bit like my 1964 Guild but it's still holding together.

#22 ya right!

ya right!

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 154 posts
  • Location:Ireland

Posted 23 February 2007 - 10:32 PM

The most glam cold moulded boat surely was "Moonduster" that old Frers 50 classic from the early '80's!
Truely a beauty.... Any pis anyone????

#23 jetfuel

jetfuel

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Toronto
  • Interests:sail ski

Posted 23 February 2007 - 10:39 PM

I owned a G&S 3/4 ton cold molded in cedar for about 15 yrs. Beautiful sexy boat that drew stares every where. Had 5 coats of Tuff-Shield to protect it from UV but the maintenence was simple. When they start go they go fast.
Repairs are fairly easy as long as they are not the topsides. If you have to replace a few planks the color will never match up unless you remove everything down to the wood and start again. (two coats of West and 2-4 coats of a uv resistant coating) they other option is to paint the topsides but you lose the beauty of the varnished hull. You cam just route out an area and tack new veneers back in with a staple gun. Remove the staples every layer and repeat. Not rocket science and if you screw up it's not big deal

#24 Junkyard Dog

Junkyard Dog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,875 posts
  • Location:N/A
  • Interests:N/A

Posted 23 February 2007 - 10:53 PM

Speaking of classic beauties, what was the name of the cold-molded 100 footer that was built on Ticonderoga's lines?

Something hawk I think. I can remember when she was in newport in the early 80s. Beatiful boat. Not a racer by any stretch, but still beautiful.

#25 hobot

hobot

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,122 posts
  • Location:Riggers Hollow Archipelago, Wa. USA

Posted 23 February 2007 - 11:00 PM

In Dana Point there used to be a coldmoulded race boat called Tinderbox that was just awsome looking. I've always wondered how shes fared over the years and where she is now..

#26 jetfuel

jetfuel

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 587 posts
  • Location:Toronto
  • Interests:sail ski

Posted 23 February 2007 - 11:03 PM

One nice feature is the fact that they do not sweat inside. Always nice and dry

#27 Colonel Angus

Colonel Angus

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 231 posts

Posted 23 February 2007 - 11:07 PM

Cold Molded processes seem to still be in favor with home builders. Check out Boat design forums. Production boats are a different story. Resin infusion has all kind of advantages, as long as you have the talent and equipment to pull it off.

Posted Image

cold mold is the only way to go

#28 myusername

myusername

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 163 posts

Posted 24 February 2007 - 03:12 AM

This thread is missing all the nice pics of these beautiful boats...so post them??!!

#29 Christian

Christian

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,368 posts
  • Location:Hopefully on the water

Posted 24 February 2007 - 04:22 AM

Some nice wood for you:

Tripp 55 - Flyway III (Born as Aurora in 92). Got a carbon stick a few years back and moves along very nicely - competitive in in both PHRF and IRC. Owned by a real nice gentleman - Ogden Reid



Posted Image



Here are some more boats from Brooklin Boatyard

#30 Mud sailor

Mud sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 510 posts

Posted 24 February 2007 - 06:30 AM

Wow, was just about to add Aurora, get to the end of the thread and beaten to it....

great boat, did two Newport Bermudas on her and Montego, fun, fast boat. Good to hear she is still going. The pic above was NYYC queens cup (back in '92 I think), that's me trimming the genoa (with the original Doyles...the North's that were new soon after were much better sails!)

The builder Steve White (Brookline BY) sailed on it as well, still building great looking cold molded boats.

BTW she had a foam core and wood skins.

#31 Squalamax

Squalamax

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,227 posts

Posted 24 February 2007 - 03:29 PM

Speaking of classic beauties, what was the name of the cold-molded 100 footer that was built on Ticonderoga's lines?

Something hawk I think. I can remember when she was in newport in the early 80s. Beatiful boat. Not a racer by any stretch, but still beautiful.


I believe that's Whitehawk, you're talking about. Just saw her a few years ago at Figawi. She is still in Bristol condition. The original Big Ti set many offshore records in her day, and I'm sure Whitehawk could show a good turn of speed.

#32 Haji

Haji

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 703 posts
  • Location:Woolwich, Maine
  • Interests:Energy systems, Bike racing, Guitar playing, XC Skiing

Posted 24 February 2007 - 03:42 PM

Cold-molded is nice! Grew up on my dad's "Improbable", which was 3 layers of Kauri.

I turned Rumbleseat into a cold-molded boat with just one layer of Port Orford cedar (along with a lot interior stiffening and sealing with epoxy). The natural finish looked nice:

Attached File  Snuffer_douse_m.jpg   36.05K   153 downloads

Then of course OceanPlanet's construction was economical, great insulation, and tough. There is Kevlar under the wood on either side of the core in the bow areas for more puncture resistance, and the core density varies. The deck is 2.5mm (that's it!) aircraft quality Finn Birch ply with a Nomex honeycomb core.

Attached File  V60_Honeycomb.JPG   46.94K   89 downloads

Attached File  3_16_sail_lockerm.jpg   33.25K   69 downloads

#33 Red Dragon

Red Dragon

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,526 posts
  • Location:Magnolia Springs, Alabama
  • Interests:Acquiring as many scars as is possible.

Posted 24 February 2007 - 03:59 PM

I believe that the Dragon builders will still do you a cold-moulded boat for about 20K euro above the price of straight grp. Seems like the popularity of the cold-moulded hulls have waned somewhat and that the majority of the people who want a 'looker' get the teak deck on the grp hull.

Dragons are pretty high cost one designs, and the top guys swap boats every couple of years. That being said, a straight grp hull and deck are probably the more cost effective options since they are at the bottom of the cost scale and since you are not sailing on your deck it makes more sense. If there was a performance advantage I think that the cold-moulded would dominate even at a higher price, but there apparently isn't and they don't.

#34 Earl Boebert

Earl Boebert

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 261 posts

Posted 24 February 2007 - 04:05 PM

Works well on models too. The hull in the picture is (from the inside out) 5 oz Kevlar, 1/64 pressure-sensitive cherry veneer, 2 oz glass. 10 oz weight for about 400 sq in of area, which is competitive with carbon fiber and a lot nicer looking, IMHO.

Cheers,

Earl

Attached Files

  • Attached File  CM3.jpg   13K   172 downloads


#35 Red Dragon

Red Dragon

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,526 posts
  • Location:Magnolia Springs, Alabama
  • Interests:Acquiring as many scars as is possible.

Posted 24 February 2007 - 05:26 PM

Aw, geez. I just went back and looked at some prices. Add about 90K euro to the price of a grp Dragon if you want cold-moulded. I guess that's their way of saying, 'we don't want to fool with this, but if you've got the money and have to have it we will build it for you'. 140K euro for a Dragon. Whew.

#36 S Brennan

S Brennan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 345 posts

Posted 24 February 2007 - 06:10 PM

Here's a guy whose cold molded boats I like. He used to have the prettiest 21' I've have ever seen on Lake Union.

http://www.wingo.com.../bios/john.html

John GUZWELL has been building boats for over 50 years. In 1953, he built a 20’ sailboat, Trekka, and soloed around the world from 1955 to 1959, the smallest boat at the time.

#37 deckersr

deckersr

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 657 posts

Posted 24 February 2007 - 06:15 PM

Speaking of classic beauties, what was the name of the cold-molded 100 footer that was built on Ticonderoga's lines?

Something hawk I think. I can remember when she was in newport in the early 80s. Beatiful boat. Not a racer by any stretch, but still beautiful.





Here it is. White Hawk available for charter.

http://www.centralya...h...d=1&uid=208

#38 tigerregis

tigerregis

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 473 posts
  • Location:TO/Eastport

Posted 24 February 2007 - 06:43 PM

How about Golden Goose, the two tonner, built for Gordon Lightfoot by Vic Carpenter? Where is it? One of the most beautiful pieces of work, inside and out.

#39 Chebacco 30

Chebacco 30

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 205 posts
  • Location:California

Posted 24 February 2007 - 06:54 PM

Lions Whelp. Built by Portland Yacht Services - except the cold-molded hull that was rescued in CA and transported to ME.

Posted Image

See those beautiful wooden spars? Well, they're carbon.

Romaine

#40 Trovão

Trovão

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,236 posts
  • Location:south of the equator, west of greenwich
  • Interests:sailing (pretty obvious, uhmm)preferentially on boats with more than one hull ;D

Posted 24 February 2007 - 08:10 PM

my 26 ft 1980 cedar cold molded hull is still pretty fine. what had to be completely replaced was the lame plywood deck and cockpit. wooden boats have souls, plastic ones don't.

#41 murphy

murphy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 129 posts

Posted 24 February 2007 - 08:30 PM

I am surprised nobody has mentioned the Synergy 1000. It is a modified cold molded/foam design.

#42 hobot

hobot

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,122 posts
  • Location:Riggers Hollow Archipelago, Wa. USA

Posted 25 February 2007 - 03:04 AM

Here's a guy whose cold molded boats I like. He used to have the prettiest 21' I've have ever seen on Lake Union.

http://www.wingo.com.../bios/john.html

John GUZWELL has been building boats for over 50 years. In 1953, he built a 20’ sailboat, Trekka, and soloed around the world from 1955 to 1959, the smallest boat at the time.



There's an earlier one he built before E-Species which was way cool also.

#43 Akaron

Akaron

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,438 posts
  • Location:Au Large

Posted 25 February 2007 - 09:38 PM

There are a couple of Class 40 guys looking at Cold-molding. Because Carbon and Kevlar are illigal in the class, it is the lightest way of building. There are already 2 chined wood 40's but as far a I know, they are ply construction, not cold-molded and this was done for €€€ reasons. These boats are competative with the rest of the fleet.

A clear coated cold moulded class 40 would be pretty fucking sexy IMHO.

#44 LeftSA

LeftSA

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,729 posts

Posted 25 February 2007 - 10:00 PM

Attached File  wavetrain2.jpg   11.78K   125 downloadsAttached File  wavetrain.jpg   3.76K   11 downloads

I reckon the sexiest (cold moulded) boat around is Wavetrain. She used to be owned by John Brummer in Dartmouth, but he sold her last year. She's a Channel 30 that's had the runners removed and went like stink under the right conditions. In 2005 John even competed successfully in the single handed Petit Bateaux race, despite the boat looking like the complete antithesis of a single hander.

Thanks to Eurospars for the pics, I'll keep looking for some better quality ones.

Attached Files



#45 skew

skew

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 784 posts
  • Location:Alta UT

Posted 25 February 2007 - 10:41 PM

Some cold-moulded boats from the Great Lakes were Golden Dazy, Hot Flash 1-2 (1/2 ton and 1 ton) and Gaboon.

#46 Peenstone

Peenstone

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 331 posts
  • Location:Lower Chesapeake Bay
  • Interests:Sailing, Biking, and safe, reliable, commercial nuclear power.

Posted 25 February 2007 - 10:49 PM

I owned a cold molded boat for a few years with no hull problems (deck delaminated though). IMPORTANT: Insurance companies do not see cold molded boats as sailors do- they are wooden boats. Many insurance companies will not insure wood boats, so before you buy, talk to your insurer.

#47 john corby

john corby

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 118 posts
  • Location:Cowes, isle of Wight, UK
  • Interests:Boats

Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:32 PM

Attached File  wavetrain2.jpg   11.78K   125 downloadsAttached File  wavetrain.jpg   3.76K   11 downloads

I reckon the sexiest (cold moulded) boat around is Wavetrain. She used to be owned by John Brummer in Dartmouth, but he sold her last year. She's a Channel 30 that's had the runners removed and went like stink under the right conditions. In 2005 John even competed successfully in the single handed Petit Bateaux race, despite the boat looking like the complete antithesis of a single hander.

Thanks to Eurospars for the pics, I'll keep looking for some better quality ones.


I took a few photos in Cork Week: http://homepage.mac....atscorkpix.html

In 1988 I was working for Julian Everitt, and Wavetrain was the first proper design I ever worked on. My computer was a 512K mac and the Macsurf software and the Mac OS both fitted onto a 400k disk. The calcs could take 20 minutes to compute. Happy times.
Waveform made a superb job of building the boat, and did it pretty quickly as well. It's nice to see it still looking so well nearly 20 years later. I have lots of photos from the launching as well.

#48 basketcase

basketcase

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,464 posts
  • Location:The Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society
  • Interests:recreational gynecology.

Posted 25 February 2007 - 11:55 PM

I owned a cold molded boat for a few years with no hull problems (deck delaminated though). IMPORTANT: Insurance companies do not see cold molded boats as sailors do- they are wooden boats. Many insurance companies will not insure wood boats, so before you buy, talk to your insurer.


well, with all of the wood in there, maybe. but with a skin of 200 gm boat cloth over top of it all, it becomes a composite boat.

#49 LeftSA

LeftSA

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,729 posts

Posted 26 February 2007 - 06:44 PM

Cheers JC, I've had an eye out for some decent Wavetrain pics for a while. We used to berth alongside her until she was sold last year and it would always piss us off that whenever people walked along the pontoon they would only talk about 'that sexy wooden boat'. At least we get a mention every now and again now!

#50 inter286

inter286

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 51 posts
  • Location:West Coast Michigan

Posted 27 February 2007 - 04:32 AM

Some cold-moulded boats from the Great Lakes were Golden Dazy, Hot Flash 1-2 (1/2 ton and 1 ton) and Gaboon.



Don't forget Checkmate Too. Chance designed 36. Had the pleasure of taking care of that ride for a couple of years. Every year, a quick coat of UV varnish and she was as good as new.

She went to Holland and changed the name to Airborne. Lost track of her after that. Still have the Michigan road map with Airborne going out of the channel on the cover.

#51 Off Watch

Off Watch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 545 posts
  • Location:Portland
  • Interests:Performance Sailboats
    Sailmaking
    Boatbuilding and Repair
    Offshore Sailing

Posted 27 February 2007 - 04:51 AM

I owned a cold molded boat for a few years with no hull problems (deck delaminated though). IMPORTANT: Insurance companies do not see cold molded boats as sailors do- they are wooden boats. Many insurance companies will not insure wood boats, so before you buy, talk to your insurer.


Has insurance been a problem for other cold molded boats? I know I had enough of a insurance problem with just having a 20+ year old fiberglass production boat.

#52 Off Watch

Off Watch

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 545 posts
  • Location:Portland
  • Interests:Performance Sailboats
    Sailmaking
    Boatbuilding and Repair
    Offshore Sailing

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:00 AM

Ah last time I checked Epoxy was not a renewable resource :o As far as longevity Mr. Jumpa is still out there sailing 30 years later (although with a bastardized Mumm 36 keel instead of a centerboard)

Posted Image

Thanks for the great shot of Mr. Jumpa, Open transom says a 90s design, the hair styles definitely say 70s.

#53 Mud sailor

Mud sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 510 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:02 AM

what about the old Stephen Jones 'old' one tonner (27.5 rating), think it was called Rakau, sailed in the solent in the late 70's/early 80's, the most beautiful transom ever on a boat, anyone got a pic?

#54 @last

@last

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 648 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:10 AM

I believe the last time I saw checkmate/airborne she was spending her summers in ludington at the new municipal marina there.......

#55 dain bramage

dain bramage

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 521 posts
  • Location:Chicago

Posted 27 February 2007 - 01:46 PM

Don't forget Checkmate Too. Chance designed 36. Had the pleasure of taking care of that ride for a couple of years. Every year, a quick coat of UV varnish and she was as good as new.

She went to Holland and changed the name to Airborne. Lost track of her after that. Still have the Michigan road map with Airborne going out of the channel on the cover.



I think Moody Blue is still sailing/racing out of St Joe MI. She was/is a great looking boat.

dain

#56 Cheap Beer

Cheap Beer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 463 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 27 February 2007 - 02:11 PM

The term "Cold Molded" is being applied in this thread fairly loosely to any type of wood construction. Technically, cold molded is strips of thin plywood laid diagonally over a male mold in alternating directions (i.e. +45, -45 to centerline). These layers of plywood are glued and stapled to build thickness, with usually a light 10 oz. layer of cloth set in epoxy to sheath the whole hull.

Strip plank construction uses longitudinal oriented strips of cedar or other soft wood with an engineered laminate of epoxy and fiber on either side. This is more often called "wood-composite" because the wood in this case adds only marginally to the laminate structure, most is in the skins, like conventional FRP sandwich cored hulls.

Both methods are a great way to build a hull or deck structure, but the cold molded method is slightly heavier per sq/ft because the density of the wood and glue, which is near also the center of the sandwich, and where the wood's properties are less effective.

OK, class is over. But, wood is good.

#57 gusmus

gusmus

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,070 posts
  • Location:Valencia, Spain.

Posted 27 February 2007 - 02:33 PM

In two words,,,, "Too Expensive"
In the good old days a design would be good for maybe 10 or 15 years so it was cost effective but nowadays a good design is out of date before they can get it out of the mould. Much better to buy a throwaway and keep up with the Joneses.

#58 casc27

casc27

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,551 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 03:31 PM

Actually, Cheep Beer, as "loose" as this thread has been nobody has been referencing more than glued composite wood construction. I haven't seen any mention of dugout, lapstrake, carvel, or log raft construction. And some have even been smart enough to mention hot-molded construction. If we really wanted to get some insight related to the merits and economics of glued wood veneer construction we should enlist Steve Rander to speak to the topic. Steve is the builder of Ocean Planet and a great guy to talk to and one smart builder. Rage has to rate up there as one of the all around great boats.

As for "thin strips of plywood..." most cold molded boats are built using vertical grain veneer panels, not plywood. And strip planking is sometimes employed as a way to quickly build hull thickness and then covered in some layers of diagonal veneers. Although some builders liked to keep things pure and use the strip planking as the only hull layer. I think Vic Carpenter liked to build this way. And he created some beautiful work. Vic was also the guy who introduced Meade and Jan Gougeon to epoxy (http://www.westsyste.../home/about.htm). And for what it's worth, the Gougeon bros. tend to group strip planking and other methods into something they call "epoxy composite construction" (but then they're in the biz of selling epoxy).

#59 Cheap Beer

Cheap Beer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 463 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 27 February 2007 - 04:13 PM

Well, you can correct me, but I think most folks get the gist of it. Cold molded can be plywood or "solid" veneer, same idea. And..there are lots of people that know more about it than me, (and about lots more) that doesn't mean that I can't make a point.

#60 casc27

casc27

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,551 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:30 PM

Well, you can correct me, but I think most folks get the gist of it. Cold molded can be plywood or "solid" veneer, same idea. And..there are lots of people that know more about it than me, (and about lots more) that doesn't mean that I can't make a point.


I did correct you (and it needed doing). Remember, you're the"expert" (have you ever built a boat?) who started the "class".

#61 Cheap Beer

Cheap Beer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 463 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:48 PM

I did correct you (and it needed doing). Remember, you're the"expert" (have you ever built a boat?) who started the "class".


What I forgot is more than you know...son. I think the wanker thread is a few pages back. Go there and find someone else to bother.

#62 hard aground

hard aground

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,319 posts
  • Location:out with my droogs

Posted 27 February 2007 - 05:52 PM

Anybody have pictures of Apocalypse, the quarter tonner racing on Lake Ontario 5-10 years ago?

#63 TeamFugu

TeamFugu

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,084 posts
  • Location:SLC, UT
  • Interests:Sailing skiffs, racing, rigging, et al.

Posted 27 February 2007 - 06:01 PM

Either way you build it, nothing is as sexy as a well built woodie under sail.

#64 casc27

casc27

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,551 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 06:08 PM

What I forgot is more than you know...son. I think the wanker thread is a few pages back. Go there and find someone else to bother.


Oh really? Only a moron would make a claim when he has no idea what's on the other end.

#65 Cheap Beer

Cheap Beer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 463 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 27 February 2007 - 08:16 PM

Oh really? Only a moron would make a claim when he has no idea what's on the other end.


Well, I guess being a "software engineer " makes you the expert. Go check the spelling on the posts while you're at it.

"Ah! Yeah. It's just we're putting new coversheets on all the TPS reports before they go out now. So if you could go ahead and try to remember to do that from now on, that'd be great. All right!"

#66 ChiGuy

ChiGuy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,437 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 10:40 PM

In Chicago back in IOR days, there was Chocolate Chips (G&S), Hot Fudge (also G&S?), a Holland 1/2 tonner built in the back yard of a dentist from NZ (with some weird NZ name), Rebel(3/4 tonner??).

All nice looking boats. No idear where any of them are.

#67 Junkyard Dog

Junkyard Dog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,875 posts
  • Location:N/A
  • Interests:N/A

Posted 27 February 2007 - 11:15 PM

Here it is. White Hawk available for charter.

http://www.centralya...h...d=1&uid=208


That's her! She was the largest cold-molded hull at the time of her launch. I wonder if any have been built bigger.

<Edit> Sorry, the largest cm sailing yacht. I think the Nave built a couple of mine sweepers using a cold-molding process. It may have been just the frames - not sure about that.

#68 some dude

some dude

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,025 posts

Posted 27 February 2007 - 11:38 PM

In Dana Point there used to be a coldmoulded race boat called Tinderbox that was just awsome looking. I've always wondered how shes fared over the years and where she is now..



Ah yes. Beautiful bright finished hull. Horrible (early 80's) light blue deck.
Very fast.
Last seen deteriorating in the LBC

#69 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,761 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 28 February 2007 - 03:32 AM

Here it is. White Hawk available for charter.

http://www.centralya...h...d=1&uid=208


You forgot her sister.

Whitefin

Posted Image

Along with Signe and Saskianna

#70 hobot

hobot

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,122 posts
  • Location:Riggers Hollow Archipelago, Wa. USA

Posted 28 February 2007 - 03:04 PM

[quote name='some dude' date='Feb 27 2007, 11:38 PM' post='1077670']
Ah yes. Beautiful bright finished hull. Horrible (early 80's) light blue deck.
Very fast.
Last seen deteriorating in the LBC
[/quote


Yes, the blue decks!
It was my first close up look at a cold moulded boat and have never forgotten it.
Sad but not surprised about it's current state.

#71 hobot

hobot

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,122 posts
  • Location:Riggers Hollow Archipelago, Wa. USA

Posted 28 February 2007 - 03:07 PM

Well, I guess being a "software engineer " makes you the expert. Go check the spelling on the posts while you're at it.

"Ah! Yeah. It's just we're putting new coversheets on all the TPS reports before they go out now. So if you could go ahead and try to remember to do that from now on, that'd be great. All right!"


Don't worry CB, casc27 isn't the only correcting nazi out there.

http://seattle.craig.../285919987.html

#72 casc27

casc27

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,551 posts

Posted 28 February 2007 - 04:52 PM

Aw, gee, did sumwun get their feewings hurt? Still, CB's researching proficiency is impressive. He was able to read enough to discern that I currently engineer software (there are no reports involved, that would be more of a data processing thing). His mistake lies in assuming that to be the extent of my experience. But if he needs to feel important...

#73 boomer

boomer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,204 posts
  • Location:PNW

Posted 28 February 2007 - 04:56 PM

But if he needs to feel important...


Probably won't let a sleeping dog lie...

#74 Cheap Beer

Cheap Beer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 463 posts
  • Location:Seattle, WA

Posted 28 February 2007 - 07:56 PM

Probably won't let a sleeping dog lie...


"Oh, and remember: next Friday... is Hawaiian shirt day. So, you know, if you want to, go ahead and wear a Hawaiian shirt and jeans."

#75 casc27

casc27

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,551 posts

Posted 28 February 2007 - 07:59 PM

It wouldn't be any fun if he did, Boomer. It's never fun teasing people who don't get riled. Oh, you don't suppose CB takes bs on this forum seriously?

#76 boomer

boomer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,204 posts
  • Location:PNW

Posted 28 February 2007 - 10:50 PM

It wouldn't be any fun if he did, Boomer. It's never fun teasing people who don't get riled. Oh, you don't suppose CB takes bs on this forum seriously?


He's probably loading his guns right now.

#77 JoeO

JoeO

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,294 posts
  • Location:Mid-Michigan

Posted 01 March 2007 - 12:00 AM

In Chicago back in IOR days, there was Chocolate Chips (G&S), Hot Fudge (also G&S?), a Holland 1/2 tonner built in the back yard of a dentist from NZ (with some weird NZ name), Rebel(3/4 tonner??).

All nice looking boats. No idear where any of them are.

Not Rebel - that was an FRP production Wyile 34.

But there was Tortuga (Wylie 3/4 ton one-off). And don't forget Bad Moon Rising (G&S 3/4 Ton) and Woodpecker (Pet 27.5 1-Ton?). Also a Chips sistership - Lobo.

The Holland 1/2 ton was Moanatoa.

Oh - there was also the Chance 44 Outlaw (that got trashed while rafted up at Great Lakes when a front moved through at night), and one of Pat Haggerty's Bay Bea's.

#78 barleymalt

barleymalt

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,251 posts
  • Location:Michigan

Posted 01 March 2007 - 01:57 AM

The 12 Meter Heritage was also a pretty sharp woodie in Chicago. I don't know if it fit the cold molded definition in the pissing contest, though.

Vic Carpenter turned out a bunch of cold molded wood boats, Gordon Lightfoot's Golden Goose and Spad among others.

#79 @last

@last

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 648 posts

Posted 01 March 2007 - 03:06 AM

But there was Tortuga (Wylie 3/4 ton one-off). And don't forget Bad Moon Rising (G&S 3/4 Ton) and Woodpecker (Pet 27.5 1-Ton?). Also a Chips sistership - Lobo.

Ah, Bad Moon Rising, now know as Whistler, very alive and well in ske-town complete with new deck and paint job-long live short bus racing!

#80 hobot

hobot

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10,122 posts
  • Location:Riggers Hollow Archipelago, Wa. USA

Posted 13 August 2007 - 01:30 AM

Was in Port Townsend, Wa. for some 6 meter racing, Boomer and I were wandering through the yard and look what we came accross.

Attached Files


Edited by hobot, 13 August 2007 - 01:31 AM.


#81 slater-san

slater-san

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 816 posts

Posted 13 August 2007 - 02:10 AM


Ah yes. Beautiful bright finished hull. Horrible (early 80's) light blue deck.
Very fast.
Last seen deteriorating in the LBC

Yes, the blue decks!
It was my first close up look at a cold moulded boat and have never forgotten it.
Sad but not surprised about it's current state.

Actually just saw Tinder Box up in Alamitos last weekend. Topsides looked in surprisingly good shape but the transom is seriously sunbaked. Deck and rig looked to be fairly recently repainted white. A lot of growth on the bottom though....needs some TLC. Original owner (and builder) still a member at DPYC....wonder if I could buy her back and get him to fix her back up!!!

#82 timber

timber

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,104 posts
  • Location:Pagosa Springs, SW Colorado
  • Interests:970-507-0428. Recognized Owner of the i550 design and main hawker of all things i550, Owner of Watershed Sailboats with Susan, my wife. Challenging Woodworking (the regular stuff is boring).

Posted 13 August 2007 - 03:15 AM

I think that is John Guzzwells boat.

I am shocked that Windward Passage has not been named in this thread. Fast, capable and under a couple different rigs over its racing carrer. How about Ragtime? Imp? Nalu IV (I think this was a Jensen design about the time he was drawing the cal 48 and 40)
I built a small hull (23 feet) using 2 layers diagonally laid 1/4" ply ripped into 6 inch strips. The ply sheets were ordered at 12 feet so they would twist gunnel to gunnel. It was ply but ply is made of veneer so where does the separation exist in cold mold or "amatuer" ply construction for those who want to argue the point?

#83 burnsed

burnsed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 680 posts
  • Location:Houston

Posted 13 August 2007 - 04:26 AM

There are a couple of Class 40 guys looking at Cold-molding. Because Carbon and Kevlar are illigal in the class, it is the lightest way of building. There are already 2 chined wood 40's but as far a I know, they are ply construction, not cold-molded and this was done for €€€ reasons. These boats are competative with the rest of the fleet.

A clear coated cold moulded class 40 would be pretty fucking sexy IMHO.



I can see it now. Go fast orange on the bottom and Home Depot as the title sponsor.


"Yeah, we have all the stuff you need to build one just like it"

#84 MangoMan

MangoMan

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,141 posts
  • Location:Downeast Maine, buddy

Posted 13 August 2007 - 04:41 AM

That's her! She was the largest cold-molded hull at the time of her launch. I wonder if any have been built bigger.

<Edit> Sorry, the largest cm sailing yacht. I think the Nave built a couple of mine sweepers using a cold-molding process. It may have been just the frames - not sure about that.

'Scheherezade", built by Hodgdon Yachts, East Boothbay, Maine.
Cold molded hull, carbon deck and superstructure by Goetz. I think she is about 145 or so feet LOA

#85 GBR66R

GBR66R

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 50 posts

Posted 13 August 2007 - 10:36 AM

The 1980 Humphreys designed Harmony (Earls Court Boat Show for this event) won IRC Class 7 at this years Cowes Week with 2 days to spare! Harmony is cold molded cedar and has been ideal to update from it's original IOR configuration to her new IRC mode due to the construction process used originally.

#86 #13

#13

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,656 posts
  • Location:San Francisco Bay
  • Interests:Antrim 27 and Mercury owner

Posted 13 August 2007 - 02:56 PM

I think that is John Guzzwells boat. Yes, last I heard. Nice set of wheels to boot.

I am shocked that Windward Passage has not been named in this thread. Fast, capable and under a couple different rigs over its racing carrer. How about Ragtime? Imp? Nalu IV (I think this was a Jensen design about the time he was drawing the cal 48 and 40)
I built a small hull (23 feet) using 2 layers diagonally laid 1/4" ply ripped into 6 inch strips. The ply sheets were ordered at 12 feet so they would twist gunnel to gunnel. It was ply but ply is made of veneer so where does the separation exist in cold mold or "amatuer" ply construction for those who want to argue the point?


Imp was fiberglass over an aluminum tube framing system; methinks you mean the previous boat, Improbable.
Nalu IV was indeed cold molded, no idea where she wound up after the Jessies sold her.
Agree about Windward Passage- one of the greats!
Cheers,
#13

#87 LeftSA

LeftSA

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,729 posts

Posted 13 August 2007 - 03:08 PM

Was in Port Townsend, Wa. for some 6 meter racing, Boomer and I were wandering through the yard and look what we came accross.

This post has been edited by hobot: Today, 02:31 AM

Attached thumbnail(s)
Reduced 87%

2272 x 1704 (989.36k)
Reduced 87%

2272 x 1704 (982.4k)
Reduced 87%

2272 x 1704 (994.58k)


I just came in my pants. That's a seriously nice machine

#88 Jerk

Jerk

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 607 posts
  • Location:Maine

Posted 14 August 2007 - 12:25 PM

www.hodgdonyachts.com

#89 elby

elby

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 187 posts
  • Location:naarden, the netherlands

Posted 14 August 2007 - 12:56 PM

I believe that the Dragon builders will still do you a cold-moulded boat for about 20K euro above the price of straight grp. Seems like the popularity of the cold-moulded hulls have waned somewhat and that the majority of the people who want a 'looker' get the teak deck on the grp hull.

Dragons are pretty high cost one designs, and the top guys swap boats every couple of years. That being said, a straight grp hull and deck are probably the more cost effective options since they are at the bottom of the cost scale and since you are not sailing on your deck it makes more sense. If there was a performance advantage I think that the cold-moulded would dominate even at a higher price, but there apparently isn't and they don't.



The could-moulded dragons seem to be a bit stiffer.

#90 sockeye

sockeye

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,391 posts
  • Location:Bainbridge Island, WA

Posted 15 August 2007 - 03:09 AM

I just came in my pants. That's a seriously nice machine

Well cleanem' up boy, that is one seriously sticky boat. Nice but sticky. Almost all the modern sixes are cold moulded be cause the panel weight requirements are so high. Only a few GRP boats and some new plank on frame designs get built. Also no carbon allowed yet.

#91 xpress

xpress

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 32 posts

Posted 15 August 2007 - 08:48 PM

Not Rebel - that was an FRP production Wyile 34.

But there was Tortuga (Wylie 3/4 ton one-off). And don't forget Bad Moon Rising (G&S 3/4 Ton) and Woodpecker (Pet 27.5 1-Ton?). Also a Chips sistership - Lobo.

The Holland 1/2 ton was Moanatoa.

Oh - there was also the Chance 44 Outlaw (that got trashed while rafted up at Great Lakes when a front moved through at night), and one of Pat Haggerty's Bay Bea's.


Also Belly Up - a 37' one-tonner built by Mike Thompson, Hot Flash - a 38' Wylie one-tonner built by Goetz, Hot Flash - a 30' half-tonner built by Gougeon, Warrior - a 30' G&S half-tonner. I owned the one-tonner Hot Flash for a few years - kept replacing dry rot in the bilge areas - sold it to a New Jersey sailor and I think it was finally laid to rest in a local dump.

#92 Asymptote

Asymptote

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,586 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 15 August 2007 - 09:09 PM

Raps is right. Lots of small boats (kayaks, canoes, etc) that are built in the garage are strip built. There's a company up in the Seattle area that has plans for sailboats that look nice, but again, small boats for home building. But there is a lot of work making them, so for a yard to make them is very expensive now.

But they are pretty. The Northwest has had it's share of them like:

Challenger
Hagar
Aurora
High Noon (from SF Bay)
And my favorite--Nightrunner!!

JM


And Peterson 42 from BC "Wisp" or "Will o' the Wisp" depending which side of the border it was on. Rock solid boat. Expensive to repair when the "pros" showed their knowledge of the rules. Maybe that last sentence is why you don't see too many of them.

#93 fdsailor

fdsailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 587 posts
  • Location:The bonnie Clyde

Posted 16 August 2007 - 01:38 PM

I remember an IOR 50 footer that raced on the Clyde a couple of times in the late 80's called Born Free that had a gorgeous varnished hull...anyone know the boat?

#94 Red Dragon

Red Dragon

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,526 posts
  • Location:Magnolia Springs, Alabama
  • Interests:Acquiring as many scars as is possible.

Posted 16 August 2007 - 11:53 PM

elby, are you a Dragoneer? I agree that the cold moulded boats are stiffer by reputation, but the difference in price is substantial and the top guys don't keep a boat long enough for it to make that much difference. You can buy about 2.5 grp boats from Petticrows for the same price as a new cold moulded boat from the same builder.

On the other hand, I would love to get my hands on that new cold moulded hull from Finland for 65K euro and see how she goes. It's the boat I will buy when I hit the lotto this weekend :).

RD

#95 Bulbhunter

Bulbhunter

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,345 posts
  • Interests:SA is DEAD

Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:00 AM

I've said this before and people thought I was crazy but I sail on one and yes it is coldmolded Synergy 1000.

I think it is still a good way to build a boat - they are strong - stiff and not overly heavy if done right. I'll take a wild guess and say the cold mold boat will out last the new high tech foam boat.

#96 Red Dragon

Red Dragon

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,526 posts
  • Location:Magnolia Springs, Alabama
  • Interests:Acquiring as many scars as is possible.

Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:14 AM

It's a very good way to build a boat. Very stiff and user friendly. We had a guy in Kansas consider setting up and building Dragon hulls this way. His estimates would have resulted in low price hulls that could have helped kick-start the class here in North America. It's all a matter of how you value your time. Petticrows doesn't charge 2.5 times the cost of grp for no reason. It's a labor intensive process. Very much so, but if you could set up to do it yourself and just looked at it as an outlay of material then your costs could be dramatically low compared to buying new (or even recently used).

With rig, covers, trailer, blocks and lines, etc. we figured somewhere around the $65-75K range for costs. That is about $100K US cheaper than what the established builders want for the same boat. Another guy was talking about building a 6mR in the same way and came up with a cost of less than $100K US for the boat. To have a European builder do that for you would probably run triple that cost.

It's a good way to build if you know what you are doing. Makes me want to look into it myself, actually.

RD

#97 kmccabe

kmccabe

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,116 posts
  • Location:Belly of the Beast.

Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:22 AM

It's the boat I will buy when I hit the lotto this weekend :).

RD


Tell you what M8 when I hit Powerball this weekend, I'll get that one for you and two new cold moulded IOD's for me and the Bowgirl.

#98 Red Dragon

Red Dragon

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,526 posts
  • Location:Magnolia Springs, Alabama
  • Interests:Acquiring as many scars as is possible.

Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:49 AM

Hmm. Maybe we can work out a deal? I don't think that the Florida lotto pays enough for TWO IOD's but we could probably do one :).

RD

#99 kmccabe

kmccabe

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,116 posts
  • Location:Belly of the Beast.

Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:59 AM

don't worry M8 it will.

#100 Brown Sugar GER 3274

Brown Sugar GER 3274

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts

Posted 24 August 2007 - 01:32 PM

don't worry M8 it will.

Quarter Tonner designed by Nissen, built in 1984, still in perfect condition.

Attached Files






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users