326 replies to this topic

[ecooper]

Sorry to so blatantly rip off the Chicago Thread title, but I'm a newb, what can I say.

The Milwaukee 2007 race schedule is up on the SSYC website, along with a new page for the Queen's cup.

http://www.ssyc.org/...ce_Schedule.asp

Cooper

[Call Me Boomvang]

Queens Cup falls on a blue moon. Nice. I know one T10 from Milwaukee that will be happy about that.

[ockam-nokam]

Can us Area III people participate here too? Like for instance if we were planning on doing the Queens Cup, or Louie's Last???

JO.N.

[ecooper]

Can us Area III people participate here too? Like for instance if we were planning on doing the Queens Cup, or Louie's Last???

JO.N.

As much participation as possible would be great, just thought I would start a thread similar to Area III. I sincerely doubt that it will ever reach the same level of participation, or interest, but what the hell...

Consider the Grand Prix as well, good warm up for the Verve, especially with more entries.

Cooper

[Grinder]

Props on the Queens Cup page.
Nice job,
Jim C.

[ockam-nokam]

I'll second Grinders 'props' on the Queens cup site. We'll see you up there for that.

Give us a shout when you're coming down for a sail.


- Jon

[43577]

Sail number 43577, after 10 year absance will be inattendance this year.

Milwaukee, shouth shore Harbor

Pierce Arrow 31

PHRF Rating of 132 (for all of those who say, what does it rate.)

Eric Mosher

[ecooper]

Sail number 43577, after 10 year absance will be inattendance this year.

Milwaukee, shouth shore Harbor

Pierce Arrow 31

PHRF Rating of 132 (for all of those who say, what does it rate.)

Eric Mosher

Congrats on getting back into it. Look forward to seeing another mast out on the course, the more boats the merrier.

Cooper

[Hung]

Spread the word. Crew search party at SSYC April 28 3:00 PM till 6:00PM. Skippers looking for crew and crew looking for a ride any experience level welcomed. PHRF . Wed. beer can races Q Cup. Some new boats at club include Mumm 36, J 105 and others. Here's the best part FREE BEER. PHRF meeting at SSYC April 4 7:00 P.M. FREE BEER we are trying to add to the fleet. All fleets meeting April 18 7:00 P.M. FREE BEER. Owners and crew are welcomed to all.

[skinnywisconsin]

FREE BEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm in

[linc age]

A question for you Wisconsin dudes. How much water is in front of South Shore Yacht Club??

Will we be able to get 11' draft in that harbor for the Queens Cup??

Linc

[Grinder]

A question for you Wisconsin dudes. How much water is in front of South Shore Yacht Club??

Will we be able to get 11' draft in that harbor for the Queens Cup??

Linc

Or MYC for that matter......

[ockam-nokam]

Or MYC for that matter......

What's a matter not relishing a walk from the Summerfest grounds back to SSYC?

[Irishdriver]

Any ideas/thoughts who is showing interest in buying Twister?

ID

[sailtwister]

A question for you Wisconsin dudes. How much water is in front of South Shore Yacht Club??

Will we be able to get 11' draft in that harbor for the Queens Cup??

Linc

Linc,

You should have no problem getting into the North side of SSYC. The water at the end of A and B Dock is ample. Also, rafting inbetween A and B docks is where the 70's go!

Preston

[sailtwister]

use this link to view the north side depth chart. We never saw below 13' last year there going ot the end of B dock. We were also at the end of A for quite some time.

http://www.ssyc.org/...pth_Chart_N.asp

[Starsailor08]

nope

[sailtwister]

Important date:

Wednesday, April 4th - Spring PHRF meeting SSYC 7PM

[gundy21]

And for the women sailing out of Milwaukee...

The spring meeting of the Milwaukee Bay Women's Sailing Organization (MBWSO) is at SSYC on Tuesday, March 27 at 7 pm. We race on 6 Monday nights, schedule will be confirmed at the meeting.

[blubberboy]

Crew shirt suggestion?

[ockam-nokam]

Crew shirt suggestion?

Why are you showing us the contents of your closet again BB?

[defiantracing]

Or MYC for that matter......

Jim, Seagoon managed to get in there last year with no issues. Just parked out at the end of the dock along with Wild Horses (1D48)

-bernie

[ecooper]

Jim, Seagoon managed to get in there last year with no issues. Just parked out at the end of the dock along with Wild Horses (1D48)

-bernie

Promo - 10.5 draft docks at MYC

[ockam-nokam]

Promo - 10.5 draft docks at MYC

Thanks GLSailor, 52555 is talking about the old Promo (N/M 50), which is now the new Goblin.

[Rogue36]

Any good rumors of new boats coming into the area? Division 2 is looking interesting this year; new boats include 2 Mumm 36, a J105, and maybe Scott B's Mount Gay 30.

[Hung]

Must be slow at M corp. You can include a Ben 10 R the new Zippy and G. King bought a Benn 36.7

[Hung]

At a meeting last night Jamie H said he is taking a 3 sec hit to try and make div 1 closer any body else got nads that big? This is for Milw Bay only.

[Grinder]

Is that Scout?.
That is awesome.

[sailtwister]

Is that Scout?.
That is awesome.

Yeah this is Scout. He is also proposing the changing of Promo's rating to -51. We are starting to walk a slippery slope when we start as clubs to change ratings.

[Hung]

Promo will remain the same as last year.

[akaGP]

Yeah this is Scout. He is also proposing the changing of Promo's rating to -51. We are starting to walk a slippery slope when we start as clubs to change ratings.

Which PROMO;
N/M 50 (sail # 52555)
or
N/M 52 (sail # 52791)?

[Grinder]

Which PROMO;
N/M 50 (sail # 52555) ?

No longer Promo,
Now Goblin, Same sail #.

Season count down has begun......

[akaGP]

No longer Promo,
Now Goblin, Same sail #.

Season count down has begun......

U N D E R S T O O D !

Since there is no official 2007 Rating List available @ lmphrf.com, what I want to know is for which PROMO, current (sail # 52791) or former (sail # 52555), was SCOUT's owner advocating a rating change to -51?

Anyone?

[ockam-nokam]

U N D E R S T O O D !

Since there is no official 2007 Rating List available @ lmphrf.com, what I want to know is for which PROMO, current (sail # 52791) or former (sail # 52555), was SCOUT's owner advocating a rating change to -51?

Anyone?

That would have to be the Promo #52791 then. 52555 is like -36.

[Hung]

That would have to be the Promo #52791 then. 52555 is like -36.

That would be the current Promo the NM 50 that rates -60 and they will stay the same until LMPHRF changes their HDCP.

[eclipse5499]

Must be slow at M corp. You can include a Ben 10 R the new Zippy and G. King bought a Benn 36.7

Are you referring to the J92 (or was it a J90) out of MYC? Just curious sailed against him last summer.

[Hung]

Zippy is a J92 and is for sale.It's listed in SA ads.The new boat is a Benn 10 R.

[Rogue36]

I see SSYC is dominating the Chi NOOD registrations so far. Are we anxious for the season to start or what?

[Hung]

You bet and we can't wait for those 51 raters to go to sec one.

[skinnywisconsin]

The 36's will look great in sec 1.
Maybe they can gang up and take those big bullies.
Enjoy sec 1 boys!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rogue36]

Are you Div 2 boys afraid of the best competition in years??!?

[dex]

question for the south shore guys. if we set up an A scow at your club for the summer, who would be interested in getting out on wed nights? we have an extra boat with no crew at pyc and the ILYA champs in 2008 at ssyc and would like to interest a ssyc group to sail it.

[ockam-nokam]

Are you Div 2 boys afraid of the best competition in years??!?

Rogue36 are you on a N/M 36 that used to be called Erlichda?

Are you guys going to play with the GL36 class that is being worked on?

Jon

[Hung]

Are you Div 2 boys afraid of the best competition in years??!?

Not at all. With the 105s, Benn 10R and 36.7 all the fast boats will be in Sec 2.

[Taku]

question for the south shore guys. if we set up an A scow at your club for the summer, who would be interested in getting out on wed nights? we have an extra boat with no crew at pyc and the ILYA champs in 2008 at ssyc and would like to interest a ssyc group to sail it.

Dex,
If you need a hand making this all come together, let me know. I'm always willing to help get new people in the fleet.

Erich

[radicalmove]

Dex,
If you need a hand making this all come together, let me know. I'm always willing to help get new people in the fleet.

Erich

Better check with SS/SSS on this. In the past they have rejected non-keel boats for Wed. night racing.
Said they didn't have crash boats, etc. Even though some of the dinghies that applied would have had
faster PHRF ratings than many of the keel boats entered.

[IRC Rocket Rider]

Anybody have any inside info on the J/125 Shadow in Washburn WI? Doesn't look like she's been raced much.

[Rogue36]

Rogue36 are you on a N/M 36 that used to be called Erlichda?

Are you guys going to play with the GL36 class that is being worked on?

Jon

Rogue is the former Erliechda. We are members of the GL36 fleet and will be racing with the other N/Ms and Mumms as much as possible. There are four Mumms in Milwaukee now so even the local competition will be exciting. I think there will be at least 8 GL36 boats in the NOODs and Queens Cup.

[Teddy]

There were some guys talking with me last year about starting an Etchells fleet in Milwaukee. Did anything come of it?


Ted

[widget]

Rogue is the former Erliechda. We are members of the GL36 fleet and will be racing with the other N/Ms and Mumms as much as possible. There are four Mumms in Milwaukee now so even the local competition will be exciting. I think there will be at least 8 GL36 boats in the NOODs and Queens Cup.

Pretty cool to see a similar group of boats like this coming together. Should be some good racing.

[skinnywisconsin]

If they allow the scow to race, what would it rate????
We will provide the chase boat and a crew to flip it back.
Hopefully we won't need the chase boat.
We may have to take it up to MYC on a wed also.

[haz]

If they allow the scow to race, what would it rate????
We will provide the chase boat and a crew to flip it back.
Hopefully we won't need the chase boat.
We may have to take it up to MYC on a wed also.

The only PHRF number I've seen for the A scow is 37.9 (so 36 or 39). This came from the formula PHRF = (6 * DPN) - 330, with DPN being the Dixie Portsmouth Number, which is 61.3 for the A scow.

Haz

[Tim ND]

There were some guys talking with me last year about starting an Etchells fleet in Milwaukee. Did anything come of it?
Ted

There would never be an etchells fleet in Milwaukee because there is a soling fleet. They're too similar and the soling guys would have none of that.

[Tim ND]

If they allow the scow to race, what would it rate????
We will provide the chase boat and a crew to flip it back.
Hopefully we won't need the chase boat.
We may have to take it up to MYC on a wed also.

Why would you live in Milwaukee and own a scow? Honestly. Lake Michigan has a lot to offer - big air, big waves, open water, fresh water. Yeah, sure you can sail in the ilya and an A scow is as cool as scows come, but have fun sailing 1/4 mile upwind beats.

[ockam-nokam]

Rogue is the former Erliechda. We are members of the GL36 fleet and will be racing with the other N/Ms and Mumms as much as possible. There are four Mumms in Milwaukee now so even the local competition will be exciting. I think there will be at least 8 GL36 boats in the NOODs and Queens Cup.

Sweet - I used to sail on her. Fun boat, very tender and feels like a cork when the winds and waves whip up. I will not be sailing in the section with you, but I do know the guy on Sirocco who got the ball rolling on the section.

Have fun and may you do well - Jon

[Teddy]

There would never be an etchells fleet in Milwaukee because there is a soling fleet. They're too similar and the soling guys would have none of that.

I was wondering about that. I've seen all the Solings when I've been to MYC for the Grand Prix. Nice place. Lotta weeds, but a nice club and good races.

Oh well.

Next time.

T

[dex]

Why would you live in Milwaukee and own a scow? Honestly. Lake Michigan has a lot to offer - big air, big waves, open water, fresh water. Yeah, sure you can sail in the ilya and an A scow is as cool as scows come, but have fun sailing 1/4 mile upwind beats.

We will be sailing the ILYA A scow champs next summer on Lake Michigan out of SSYC. Would be happy to give you a ride if we set the boat up.
For the record, we sailed 3.5 mile beats at last years champs and will again this year on Winnebago.

[Rogue36]

Sweet - I used to sail on her. Fun boat, very tender and feels like a cork when the winds and waves whip up. I will not be sailing in the section with you, but I do know the guy on Sirocco who got the ball rolling on the section.

Have fun and may you do well - Jon

I see you know the boat. It is a blast in light air, fun in medium air but hang on in heavy air. We have had spectacular wipe outs in 25+, it definitely takes some skilled sailors under those conditions. We are looking forward to a competitive season with the GL36 boats.

[skinnywisconsin]

Anybody sailing yet???
We should be in 2 weeks.
Launch party for the 105 tenatively on sat the 28 after the crew search.

[Rogue36]

We will have to wait until a lot of boats get launched at SSYC before we will get out. Hoping for somewhere around May 5.

[lakeracer29]

Anybody sailing yet???
We should be in 2 weeks.
Launch party for the 105 tenatively on sat the 28 after the crew search.

Yep the weather was great the first two days in Charleston, you boys need to move a little farther south and start your season a little sooner. I see there is a J105 already registered for the Chicago NOOD, I am sure it will be registered for NAs soon. I think you should keep it on the trailer and send it to Annapolis, and go race with 44 other 105s already registered. Then come back for the NOODS and your lake michigan debut. Just kidding good luck with the new bus, see if you can get it to plane!!!

[eclipse5499]

Anybody sailing yet???
We should be in 2 weeks.
Launch party for the 105 tenatively on sat the 28 after the crew search.

Went out a couple of times in early April before that shitty stretch we had on my friend's B25. But my boat still needs to be unwrapped!

[Iris]

Right now, just east of SSYC, someone's southbound on a port tack. First sailboat I've seen this season. God bless ya. It's 40 degrees out there in 12 knots of breeze.

[ecooper]

Spread the word. Crew search party at SSYC April 28 3:00 PM till 6:00PM. Skippers looking for crew and crew looking for a ride any experience level welcomed. PHRF . Wed. beer can races Q Cup. Some new boats at club include Mumm 36, J 105 and others. Here's the best part FREE BEER. PHRF meeting at SSYC April 4 7:00 P.M. FREE BEER we are trying to add to the fleet. All fleets meeting April 18 7:00 P.M. FREE BEER. Owners and crew are welcomed to all.

bump to remind anyone interested that there is a crew search party tomorrow at SSYC

[Rogue36]

I am still waiting for my PHRF certificate. Has anyone received one yet?????

[Fritz]

No cert as of today! There letter said may 1st. Did hear that at the sat PHRF meeting they voted to give Mainstreet the J out of Port Washington, +6 sec

[BN66]

No cert as of today! There letter said may 1st. Did hear that at the sat PHRF meeting they voted to give Mainstreet the J out of Port Washington, +6 sec

+6, thats what i had heard, that is completely Ridiculous ! that boat had no problem covering real estate and its rating was good the way it was!!!

[Rogue36]

Will we actually see them race this year? They have been pretty scarce in Milw Bay over the last few seasons.

[Fritz]

Yep a bunch of BS if you ask me! Guess we will see a artical in some sailing rag on how great LMPHRF is, soon.

Rogue, heard Rich W. is going to be leaving the area, true?

[Rogue36]

Have any of you heard about the MYC Grand Prix designated as a PHRF Season Series counter? This is not posted on the SSYC site race schedule but it is in the Notice of Races posted on the SSYC site. I think this will create a number of issues such as:

This is a 5 race regatta - if you don't race you will only have one additional throwout for the season.

How does this affect boats that are hoping to race in a one design division in the Grand Prix such as the GL36's, J105's, etc who are also PHRF racers? Do they give up their PHRF season to race one design? Do they race PHRF and not have the opportunity to race one design?

How will the division splits be handled? If they are the same as the rest of the PHRF series how are out of town boats handled if one division is overloaded with boats and others have a minimum number of boats on the line?

What will be done about season series points when the results will be affected by a significant number of out of town boats? There will be more boats in your start than was anticipated by the out of town boat provisions in the Milwaukee Bay PHRF Notice of Race.

Does it matter that MYC has 15 races vs 9 for SSYC for the season?

Do MBPHRF racers have to pay the Grand Prix entry fee?

What are your thoughts? To get the opinion of the MBPHRF racers there is a poll set up on the Great Lakes 36 website www.gl36.com .

[Rogue36]

Yep a bunch of BS if you ask me! Guess we will see a artical in some sailing rag on how great LMPHRF is, soon.

Rogue, heard Rich W. is going to be leaving the area, true?

Rich is on the boat this year. His job moved but his racing hasn't so far.

[akaGP]

Yep a bunch of BS if you ask me! Guess we will see a artical in some sailing rag on how great LMPHRF is, soon.

No cert as of today! There letter said may 1st. Did hear that at the sat PHRF meeting they voted to give Mainstreet the J out of Port Washington, +6 sec

+6, thats what i had heard, that is completely Ridiculous ! that boat had no problem covering real estate and its rating was good the way it was!!!

6 s/m; that is NOTHING in comparison to the +15 s/m for U-20.

[sailtwister]

No cert as of today! There letter said may 1st. Did hear that at the sat PHRF meeting they voted to give Mainstreet the J out of Port Washington, +6 sec

Pretty Amazing you can win a PHRF race with 38 boats and get 6 seconds a mile.

Race Name: 100 Miler
Race Date: 07/29/06
Course Name: COURSE 1 FINAL RESULTS
Course Length: 41.80 Nautical Miles
Division: SPINNAKER
RACE NO: OVERALL
RANK
OVERALL Boat Name Sail No. Boat Owner CITY ST Boat Type Corrected
Time
1 MAIN STREET USA50048 SCHANEN, W PORT WASHINGTON WI J/145 6:20:19
2 PERSERVERANCE 25439 SONGER, M MARQUETTE MI J120 6:21:09
3 SCOUT 2615 HUMMERT, J MILWAUKEE WI SYDNEY 41 6:23:06
4 PROMO 52791 MORAN, M HARTLAND WI NM 52 6:26:24
5 NORTHSTAR 246 GUSTMAN, D WILMETTE IL J 109 6:28:27
6 AEOLUS 1597 HANSEN, J TOLEDO OH ALDEN CARAVELLE 6:30:40
7 WILDHORSES 48008 HENNIG, R FRANKSVILLE WI I D 48 6:30:46
8 TWISTER USA51115 WAKE, H MENOMINEE MI IMS 50 SLOOP 6:35:04
9 WHISTLER 549 BEYER/BANNOW MENOMINEE MI J 80 6:42:47
10 BANTU 6700 KUBER, T MENOMINEE MI BLOCK ISLAND 40 6:46:13
11 REGARDLESS 40625 TEAM REGARDLESS OSWEGO IL NM 40 6:46:51
12 TAZ USA 458 SCHOENDORF, C STURGEON BAY WI MELGES 24 6:49:45
13 GRAFITTI TRAIN IRL3600 BERGER, C CHICAGO IL MUMM 36 6:50:06
14 NOBLE BUFFALO 42738 JAHNKE, R KENOSHA WI J 35 6:50:56
15 NORTHERN WINDS 81504 LONGWORTH/SCHELWAT GLENDALE WI BENETEAU 6:53:17
16 BRAVO 42330 DEKKER,T CEDAR GROVE WI TAYLOR 6:56:23
17 MASKWA 11508 WALLER, D OAK BROOK IL C&C 115 6:59:42
18 DASH 539 BONVALLET, J ONEIDA WI S2-7.9 6:59:58
19 TANGO IN BLUE 50593 TRISCO/FONS BAYSIDE WI CM1200 7:01:42
20 LEGACY 42340 MERKATORIS,M GREEN BAY WI FRERS 38 7:01:47
21 SURFACE TENSION 64986 SCHAFER, J ELM GROVE WI NM 36 7:01:53
22 HASTEN 25103 STRITT, F DELEVAN WI C & C 7:02:51
23 OASIS 41098 Askin, D STURGEON BAY WI MIRAGE 338 7:05:53
24 ACCORD 83330 KUBER, J RICHFIELD WI TRIP 40 7:08:04
25 EVOLUTION USA 70 REISHELSDORFOR/KOHLOR SHEBOYGAN WI SC 70 7:08:48
26 ZAPADA 50504 VanWIEREN, B GRANVILLE MI ISLANDER 40 7:09:33
27 CRISIS MODE 128 ROSENBECK, G SHERWOOD WI MELGES 24 7:11:24
28 MRS JONES 9 JONES, E BROOKFIELD WI B-25 7:16:03
29 MIRAGE USA28115 WOODWORTH, D CHICAGO IL SC 70 7:21:34
30 FOWL PLAY 844 Lemire, D MENOMINEE MI THUNDERBIRD 7:26:38
31 POROROCA 777984 MCCARTHY/ZEEMAN CHICAGO IL NM 68 7:33:33
32 WINDANCER 52702 NEDEAU, J MORTH MUSKEGON MI GL 70 7:41:13
33 RED SKY 2115 AINSWORTH, S LITTLE SUAMICO WI CATALINA 30 7:48:49
34 FLASH GORDON 25293 HUBERT, M MENOMINEE MI TRIPP 33 7:57:53
35 ESCAPADE 0 CROSS, D & F SHERWOOD WI MORGAN 1968 8:00:28
36 RUMORS 30304 OSTERINK, W GRAND RAPIDS MI ISLANDER 8:00:38
37 SHOWDOWN 30383 NORDAHL,k STURGEON BAY WI MERIT 25 8:44:24
38 WHITE HEAT 21239 LANGDON, R EGG HARBOR MI IRWIN 3/4 TON 9:20:38
39 BAY BREEZE 26268 HELLER/REID MENOMINEE MI METALMAST 30 DNF
40 SADIE HAWKINS 13 PETERSON, J. MENOMINEE MI S2-7.9 DNS
41 FULL TILT 249 STEWART/PRIEDE HOMER GLEN IL J 1O9 FRACTIONAL DNS
42 DESPERADO 37 SANDERS/SAILBOAT INC MANITOWOC WI C & C 115 DNS
43 SEAGOON 2001 SMIRL,D OAK PARK IL ILC-46 DNS
Saved As: Race Calcs 2006 SP OVERALL Page 1 of 1

[SaboJ35]

Its been a while since I have posted. Its good to see a Milwaukee Thread..

Does anybody know when the 2007 Milwaukee Bay Sailing Instructions will be available?

And

Have the division splits been finalized. It would be interesting to know who will be out there..

FYI
Sabotage will be there for half of them.

One more question. I understand Scout will voluntarily give up 3 seconds a mile. This sounds great, but when everyone comes up to speed, like Promo, and the other Div 1 boats and he wants those seconds back. Will he get them? Under what protocol?

[ecooper]

One more question. I understand Scout will voluntarily give up 3 seconds a mile. This sounds great, but when everyone comes up to speed, like Promo, and the other Div 1 boats and he wants those seconds back. Will he get them? Under what protocol?

The rating change is completely voluntary and aimed at promoting closer racing. I doubt that losing some races is going to change Jamie's mind, hopefully the results will be much closer. I also wouldn't say that the other division 1 boats weren't up to speed, I'd say that the three seconds will create more interesting racing and series results.

Also, this rating change is only for the local Milwaukee races, Scout's PHRF cert hasn't been changed.

[Hung]

The SIs are being completed as we speak. We can't do splits till we get more entries in but you can use last years as a guide. Scout will take a three second hit unless he is getting killed and takes it back a week prior to the next race. What half of the races are you going to do.

[SaboJ35]

The rating change is completely voluntary and aimed at promoting closer racing. I doubt that losing some races is going to change Jamie's mind, hopefully the results will be much closer. I also wouldn't say that the other division 1 boats weren't up to speed, I'd say that the three seconds will create more interesting racing and series results.

Also, this rating change is only for the local Milwaukee races, Scout's PHRF cert hasn't been changed.

I don't like it, but I don't have a dog in this race, our boat is entrenched in Division 2. If I were in Div 1 I would be insulted... In fact I am insulted, because we will compete on overall trophies. It cheapens the racing. If his rating is wrong then change the cert otherwise everyone else needs to get better. I certainly didn't ask for his benevolence and I don't want any gifts.

Just my 2 cents

[SaboJ35]

The SIs are being completed as we speak. We can't do splits till we get more entries in but you can use last years as a guide. Scout will take a three second hit unless he is getting killed and takes it back a week prior to the next race. What half of the races are you going to do.

We are going to do the South Shore Course races. Skelding, Tanger, Grudge, and a couple regattas of opportunity. If we can get crew together the commodores at Milwaukee. We are trying to do a weekend series a month..

[Rogue36]

Hey Sabo, good to see you back online. Div 2 is where the action is at this year. Should be some close racing with the number of boats within 30 sec/m of each other.

[SaboJ35]

Hey Sabo, good to see you back online. Div 2 is where the action is at this year. Should be some close racing with the number of boats within 30 sec/m of each other.

Yeah, too good!!! I am still lobbying to get you guys into Div 1...

Just teasing...

[SaboJ35]

I don't like it, but I don't have a dog in this race, our boat is entrenched in Division 2. If I were in Div 1 I would be insulted... In fact I am insulted, because we will compete on overall trophies. It cheapens the racing. If his rating is wrong then change the cert otherwise everyone else needs to get better. I certainly didn't ask for his benevolence and I don't want any gifts.

Just my 2 cents

Ok.. on second thought, Maybe insulted is a little too strong... Jamie is a great guy and I have known him for most of my life, he has never ever insulted me and has treated me with a great deal of respect and friendship... Perhaps change the wording to "significantly taken aback"... I still don't like playing with ratings on a local level... ever..

[Trident]

How does this affect boats that are hoping to race in a one design division in the Grand Prix such as the GL36's, J105's, etc who are also PHRF racers? Do they give up their PHRF season to race one design? Do they race PHRF and not have the opportunity to race one design?

How will the division splits be handled? If they are the same as the rest of the PHRF series how are out of town boats handled if one division is overloaded with boats and others have a minimum number of boats on the line?

Question. How would you handle One-Design boats that carry different PHRF certificates? For instance, you mention the J105s. I do know that most J105s NOT residing in Chicago carry an optimized PHRF handicap, meaning they are measured with gennys, higher weight limits, different spin cloth, etc. So I assume all the non-Chicago boats are using different PHRF equipment, thus rated differently by their PHRF boards. All the Chicago boats carry a One Design PHRF cert which immediately gives them an advantage, measured with only OD equipment. Since you can only carry one PHRF certificate, what do the tricked out (Oxymoron) 105ers do? Wouldn't that discourage participation from outside fleets, namely Chicago? Same issue with Queens Cup, right?

Flame on.

[SaboJ35]

Question. How would you handle One-Design boats that carry different PHRF certificates? For instance, you mention the J105s. I do know that most J105s NOT residing in Chicago carry an optimized PHRF handicap, meaning they are measured with gennys, higher weight limits, different spin cloth, etc. So I assume all the non-Chicago boats are using different PHRF equipment, thus rated differently by their PHRF boards. All the Chicago boats carry a One Design PHRF cert which immediately gives them an advantage, measured with only OD equipment. Since you can only carry one PHRF certificate, what do the tricked out (Oxymoron) 105ers do? Wouldn't that discourage participation from outside fleets, namely Chicago? Same issue with Queens Cup, right?

Flame on.

Rouge was talking about the Grand Prix regatta being included in the Milwaukee Bay season specifically. This used to be a unique event that ran its own registration and was completely separate from the Milwaukee Bay Season Series. A while back the J35s used this as one of the J35 season regattas and we were able to race this as a OD with out sacrificing our local season. The gl36 fleet that just started was trying to gain their own start, but with the regatta now being considered part of the local season series they would be sacrificing the season or at least their throw-outs by going this route if available at all.

To answer your question if the regatta or section split is a OD section all participants would be required to measure in to the OD configuration (gennys not allowed) your PHRF rating wouldn't matter. If it is a PHRF regatta then unfortunately you will need to sail to your cert.

[MosquitoBob]

Ok.. on second thought, Maybe insulted is a little too strong... Jamie is a great guy and I have known him for most of my life, he has never ever insulted me and has treated me with a great deal of respect and friendship... Perhaps change the wording to "significantly taken aback"... I still don't like playing with ratings on a local level... ever..

I'm a bit torn by it, too, but I guess we'll take the gift and try to whip his butt all the same!

I wouldn't expect that he'd ask for the 3 seconds back if he had a string of losses. Jamie's definitely a stand-up guy and is trying to foster closer racing in a very wide Division 1. If his gesture helps maintain participation, then I'm for it.

[MosquitoBob]

If his rating is wrong then change the cert otherwise everyone else needs to get better.

I wouldn't get the cert changed, either, in his circumstance. He already gives enough time to his Lake Michigan sister ships, for various contentious reasons; ie. Dorsey.

[Hung]

He is not changing his cert. If he has a string of losses he can take the 3 seconds back for the rest of the season.

[SaboJ35]

He is not changing his cert. If he has a string of losses he can take the 3 seconds back for the rest of the season.

Sez who?

Define a string of losses? 3 second place finishes, or 3rds or what.... so if I understand this correctly, this is only a temporary gift. So he doesn't win by as much? I am sure we will all feel better because it will look much closer on the results sheet. I think it would be better if he used old sails and didn't clean his bottom and had newbies call tactics. Now thats the proper way to sandbag...

[ecooper]

Sez who?

Define a string of losses? 3 second place finishes, or 3rds or what.... so if I understand this correctly, this is only a temporary gift. So he doesn't win by as much? I am sure we will all feel better because it will look much closer on the results sheet. I think it would be better if he used old sails and didn't clean his bottom and had newbies call tactics. Now thats the proper way to sandbag...

If you are in Section 2 why are you so concerned? Let the Section 1 owners make their own mind up about it... or are you really that concerned about the overall results?? I really doubt that a couple of non first place finishes of any kind(2nd, 3rd, DFL) will change Jamie's mind. I think the ability to take back the 3 seconds is there in case the margain of loss becomes larger than what would be expected for the conditions of the race and the way the boat was sailed. I really doubt that he will ever opt to take the time back anyways.

[Rogue36]

I wouldn't worry about overall results anyway. How BOTY is determined in Milwaukee Bay is a mystery.

[SaboJ35]

If you are in Section 2 why are you so concerned? Let the Section 1 owners make their own mind up about it... or are you really that concerned about the overall results?? I really doubt that a couple of non first place finishes of any kind(2nd, 3rd, DFL) will change Jamie's mind. I think the ability to take back the 3 seconds is there in case the margain of loss becomes larger than what would be expected for the conditions of the race and the way the boat was sailed. I really doubt that he will ever opt to take the time back anyways.

I am concerned because its a fleet thing.

Jamie is a stand up guy absolutely no question, and I am sure his offer is with the best intentions...

But I disagree with local fleet rating modifications in any form.. Absolutely... UP or Down. it is misguided and dangerous.. It can get ugly on a thousand different levels. Let LMPHRF do their jobs and rate the boats accordingly.

[SaboJ35]

I wouldn't worry about overall results anyway. How BOTY is determined in Milwaukee Bay is a mystery.

Who won that anyway?

[ecooper]

I do believe Scout

[does it matter?]

Who ended up winning the beer can race last night?

[sailorpapa]

Sabo, I think Jamie's offer to decrease his rating by 3 seconds is in direct response of lmphrf not wanting to fix Promo's rating. it has been obvious to Scout, Promo and probably some other owners in div 1 that Promo's rating is wrong and has created some unbalanced results in div 1. Promo aproached lmphrf in totally the correct fashion. They refused to consider a change in rating. I believe Jamie urged them to and then even offered that Lmphrf change his rating by 3 sec. They also rejected that and so he is doing it locally.
All second hand info, take it any way you want.
I do agree that adjusting ratings on the local level is opening up a can of worms. I will also say that Lmphrf has not provided an equitable rating for Promo.

[Rogue36]

I wonder if IRC ratings are any more equitable for these boats?

[SaboJ35]

Sabo, I think Jamie's offer to decrease his rating by 3 seconds is in direct response of lmphrf not wanting to fix Promo's rating. it has been obvious to Scout, Promo and probably some other owners in div 1 that Promo's rating is wrong and has created some unbalanced results in div 1. Promo aproached lmphrf in totally the correct fashion. They refused to consider a change in rating. I believe Jamie urged them to and then even offered that Lmphrf change his rating by 3 sec. They also rejected that and so he is doing it locally.
All second hand info, take it any way you want.
I do agree that adjusting ratings on the local level is opening up a can of worms. I will also say that Lmphrf has not provided an equitable rating for Promo.

I understand and will stop pissing on the fire.. you know me I am not unreasonable, I just don't think this is the right way to accomplish the end result.

How did Promo get the rating it got and was there data to support the change. This boat had a history before it came to Milwaukee, doesn't that IMS stuff equate to some phrf number. But I try to stay out of that stuff.

[SaboJ35]

Who ended up winning the beer can race last night?

No racing until next week Wednesday... But I get your drift. And that's another issue this fleet needs to address.

[sailorpapa]

I understand and will stop pissing on the fire.. you know me I am not unreasonable, I just don't think this is the right way to accomplish the end result.

How did Promo get the rating it got and was there data to support the change. This boat had a history before it came to Milwaukee, doesn't that IMS stuff equate to some phrf number. But I try to stay out of that stuff.

Same way everyone else gets their rating. they send in their application to lmphrf along with thier check. They had a phrf rating from another region but rig and apendages were changed before the boat apeared in Milwaukee.
The boat was one of the last ims boats designed to work the rule, in effect designed to go slow but with a great ims rating.
Yes you would think that an ims rating or at least the vpp would influence our lmphrf rating but apparently it does not.
Lets get real, Promo's long distance lmphrf rating is the same as a sc70. might explain why they are not doing the Queens cup.

[barleymalt]

Promo finished the Chicago Mac last year in front of several SC70s and Denali. What should an "equitable" PHRF rating be?

[sailorpapa]

Promo finished the Chicago Mac last year in front of several SC70s and Denali. What should an "equitable" PHRF rating be?

a quick look at the results shows that all sc70's and also denali had lower elapsed times than promo. am i missing something.

promo did sail an excelent mac race

i would not base a boats rating on a mac race result

in answer to your question, -47 or -50. long distance rating same as course race rating