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#101 206

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 11:29 PM

for the record - kevin dibley is a great designer and this does not seem representative of his other work to me.

#102 Bulbhunter

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Posted 11 April 2007 - 11:31 PM

for the record - kevin dibley is a great designer and this does not seem representative of his other work to me.


I concur - his other stuff looks pretty good. Though hard to say for sure till more photos surface. I agree the tiller would be nice. I don't know the numbers on the Catalina 28 are they similar? Maybe they are playing the numbers game and trying not to stray to far from what the large builders are selling?

#103 By the lee

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 01:10 AM

The wheel's way too damn small.................

#104 Dibley

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 01:42 AM

Hilarious. What can I say :lol:
I guess I better put my two bits in.
The K280 was designed to a very specific brief from Kiwi Boat Works. As a designer, you have to work with and listen to the client.
He fired two previous designers who wouldn't listen.
He did a lot of market research on the niche market he is aiming for and I think he'll do well with it.
Not everyone's cup of tea, to be sure, to be sure, but there will be lots that find it works beautifully for them.
I get all types of commissions that range from sportsboats to 170 foot schooners. Some I have full control on what is created. Some I don't.
The control i do have is whether they sail well, and whether the owners are happy.
Go Kiwi Boatworks is all I can say. :P
Cheers
Kevin Dibley

P.S: I particularily loved the 'Cunter' label. That one truly cracked me up :lol:

#105 Trov„o

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 02:30 AM

Hilarious. What can I say :lol:
I guess I better put my two bits in.
The K280 was designed to a very specific brief from Kiwi Boat Works. As a designer, you have to work with and listen to the client.
He fired two previous designers who wouldn't listen.
He did a lot of market research on the niche market he is aiming for and I think he'll do well with it.
Not everyone's cup of tea, to be sure, to be sure, but there will be lots that find it works beautifully for them.
I get all types of commissions that range from sportsboats to 170 foot schooners. Some I have full control on what is created. Some I don't.
The control i do have is whether they sail well, and whether the owners are happy.
Go Kiwi Boatworks is all I can say. :P
Cheers
Kevin Dibley

P.S: I particularily loved the 'Cunter' label. That one truly cracked me up :lol:


this is one of the great things about this place. we often get the word directlly from the mouth of the (in this case) designer, no matter his work is being bashed by the mr. knoweverything that we have a lot around here. thanks for the input mr. dybley.

#106 USA-7

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 10:48 AM

Hilarious. What can I say :lol:
I guess I better put my two bits in.
The K280 was designed to a very specific brief from Kiwi Boat Works. As a designer, you have to work with and listen to the client.
He fired two previous designers who wouldn't listen.
He did a lot of market research on the niche market he is aiming for and I think he'll do well with it.
Not everyone's cup of tea, to be sure, to be sure, but there will be lots that find it works beautifully for them.
I get all types of commissions that range from sportsboats to 170 foot schooners. Some I have full control on what is created. Some I don't.
The control i do have is whether they sail well, and whether the owners are happy.
Go Kiwi Boatworks is all I can say. :P
Cheers
Kevin Dibley

P.S: I particularily loved the 'Cunter' label. That one truly cracked me up :lol:

Good work Mr. Dibley !

#107 BigBoatHack

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 02:05 PM

"Clean up, aisle 4." I just pissed myself with that visual. Not far off with the cost efficiencies of China. Perhaps a Costco 24 is in the works. Too bad it will get taxed as personal property annually and you cannot find a slip because they are all condos now.


Don't laugh... We just bought a car through Costco. No haggling and a good price. Maybe boats someday.

#108 Editor

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 02:59 PM

Its EDs new boat to replace the T-10 now that the wife's getting bitchy :lol:


Dumbass. How did you know? :P Oh and y'all be sure to check the front page later tonight....

#109 Bulbhunter

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 05:32 PM

Mr. Dibley.

I actually find the boat kind of interesting. Could you give a little more detail on it? Sail area, displacement, hull shape. I assume it will have some sort of lifiting keel since it is designed to be trailered? What is the story on the rig? Why no backstay?

Thanks.


Make that two people - though I'm not a newbie and the wife and I are shopping for the mini family cruiser with some genetic reference to the sportier current designs on the water these days, but simply cant stoop to the Hunter or Catalina so yes the KC280 has my interest. Shoot me some details -- my email to Kiwi boat works went unanswered.

Thanks for jumping on the forum -always great to hear from the designers.

#110 Wess

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 05:46 PM

You, upon further review, are the winner. How did you know? PM me...

The Ed giveth and the Ed taketh.

OK, so what's the deal on Canada vs China.

Somebody here must have the scoop. How did you know... the China part.

#111 Dibley

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 09:11 PM

Mr. Dibley.

I actually find the boat kind of interesting. Could you give a little more detail on it? Sail area, displacement, hull shape. I assume it will have some sort of lifiting keel since it is designed to be trailered? What is the story on the rig? Why no backstay?

Thanks.


G'day Wassupwiddat',
Sail Area is 456 sq.ft
Saling Displacement [yes - with crew] is about 4,500 lb's.
The photo at that angle looks a bit scewed. She is actually slightly V'd up forward, moving into a U-shape leading aft then running into a flat run aft.
It was a shame the builders didn't have the waterlnes on as she would look a lot less high freeboarded.
She is a lift keeler with a bulb on the bottom weighing 1720 lb's making the Ballast/Displacement ratio 38%. Not high but good for this type of design.
The reason she has no backstay is to keep it simple. She is a swept spreader ig that allows the rig to be locked in so no need to have a backstay to keep her up.
This rig is Aluminium but it wuld be nice if someone paid a bit more for a Carbon option. It just makes the costing out of reach unfortunately when the rig costs a 1/4 of the total price.
Does that answer all your questions?
Cheers
Kevin

#112 Dibley

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 09:16 PM

Make that two people - though I'm not a newbie and the wife and I are shopping for the mini family cruiser with some genetic reference to the sportier current designs on the water these days, but simply cant stoop to the Hunter or Catalina so yes the KC280 has my interest. Shoot me some details -- my email to Kiwi boat works went unanswered.

Thanks for jumping on the forum -always great to hear from the designers.


G'day U20guy2.
I think they are still working on their Web site. Shouldn't be long before it is up and running though. If you dont hear from them today, send me an email and I'll pass it on if I can't answr your questions personally.
info@dibleymarine.com
The last talk yesterday was for sea trials on the first yacht to take place within the next 4-weeks or so. I know the pricing is still being worked on by the Chinese yard. Frustrating for Kiwi Boatworks, but slowly being sorted.
Kevin

#113 Dibley

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 09:19 PM

The Ed giveth and the Ed taketh.

OK, so what's the deal on Canada vs China.

Somebody here must have the scoop. How did you know... the China part.


G'day Wess,
I'm curous myself. I was born in Canada but there was never talk of bulding there from what I can remember. I keep to the design side mostly though, so maybe there was talk in the background.
C'mon AdamAnt...... how did you work it out?
Kevin :P

#114 amolitor

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 09:21 PM

Well done, I must say.

II imagine the design brief read something like:

- 4 berths
- standing headroom
- head
- diesel
- <some low weight number>
- 28 feet long

This brief might as well read 'draw me a fat little piggy of a boat' and, frankly, I think you did well within those parameters! She looks very nice, given that she has to be about 1/4 as tall as she is long. The deadlights are actually kind of nice looking, instead of the hideous curvy messes everyone seems to be sticking on their boats.

The forward berth looks a little on the small side. I like that style of aft berth, though. The Catalina 310 has it as well, and it works curprisingly well, and gives you a big berth in a little boat.

#115 Dibley

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 09:21 PM

The back end looks like a bathtub that would leak. The sides look like a Winnebago. The cabin top looks like a schoolbus. Is it the latest design from a guy that gets fired from a lot of jobs?


Ouch...... I'll leave it at that. :blink:

#116 Bulbhunter

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 09:50 PM

Ouch...... I'll leave it at that. :blink:



He's a newbie - and yes when you try to make a short boat with big boatish things inside it is very hard to design a good looking boat. I'm looking forward to seeing more photos. Thanks for the overview Dibley

#117 BigBoatHack

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 10:00 PM

Dumbass. How did you know? :P Oh and y'all be sure to check the front page later tonight....


Perhaps some A30 news?

#118 Wess

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 10:11 PM

G'day Wess,
I'm curous myself. I was born in Canada but there was never talk of bulding there from what I can remember. I keep to the design side mostly though, so maybe there was talk in the background.
C'mon AdamAnt...... how did you work it out?
Kevin :P

Guy that pointed me to the boat was from Canada and the website he pointed me to for details mentioned (or at least used to mention) manufacturing on west coast of Canada.

I'll have to give a ring.

Oh well

#119 BFD

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Posted 12 April 2007 - 10:35 PM

It's a FUGLY 30!!! It comes with ugly sticks to beat all the women with so they will think it's cool.

#120 sailho

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 12:29 AM

Cheers
Kevin Dibley

P.S: I particularily loved the 'Cunter' label. That one truly cracked me up :lol:


All in jest mate!
Total respect for sailboat designers and the challenges they face with todays markets and rules!
Keep up the good work and how about a list of some of your projects and where you see it going...
Cheers!

#121 Prouda my Pickle Dish

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 02:31 AM

You know the house is too lonb for racing and the cockpit is too deep like a Columbia 30, but as a cruiser/racer for a family...perhaps...just perhaps.

#122 BigBoatHack

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 10:06 AM

Perhaps some A30 news?

Guess not.

#123 Stibra

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 10:07 AM

It is new Seaquest RP36 built in Dubai :)

#124 Dibley

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 10:38 AM

Guess not.

G'day BigBoatHack,
A30? Must be having a senior moment...... what do you mean?
There to answer where I can.............

#125 H20

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 11:04 AM

I like it just fine as I said before, for what it is. Again, a big step in the right direction. It looks like a very good third option in the US (or wherever). Starter boat for the masses VS hunter or catalina. THE WHEEL IS AN OPTION I also said before. Look on the website.
Um, Mr Dibbly, how much is this boat going to sell for? What do you suppose it will PHRF out to. I'm thinking fairly quick COMPARED to the competition in family cruisers. Is there really 6' headroom? And I see no head. Looks like there is plenty of room for an enclosed head.
People this is not supposed to compete with a melges32 but a catahunter 28. I own a Tartan28 which at the time, in the early 80's, was a fairly quick, decently appointed 28er. This is the new version of that design brief. I would change out the little square hunter windows for a couple of opening lewmars, try to do something with the rubrail, get rid of that silly wheel, at least put a 44" on for pictures, and sell some. Get that little wheel off and delete that image from everywhere. Lift keel and lift rudder. I think the masses have been waiting for this. Ya people will jump on the bandwagon and say this and that but they are squarely NOT the target group. I would also build a fixed keel 5.5" draft version. Would be a bit sturdier for the newbies to run aground, and more room to waltz around below. 6"5" draft is a bit much for new boat owners.
Again, how much?

#126 DEAD MONEY

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 02:11 PM

One question that I am surprised no one has asked.....


What's it RATE ???

#127 Bulbhunter

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Posted 13 April 2007 - 05:31 PM

I like it just fine as I said before, for what it is. Again, a big step in the right direction. It looks like a very good third option in the US (or wherever). Starter boat for the masses VS hunter or catalina. THE WHEEL IS AN OPTION I also said before. Look on the website.
Um, Mr Dibbly, how much is this boat going to sell for? What do you suppose it will PHRF out to. I'm thinking fairly quick COMPARED to the competition in family cruisers. Is there really 6' headroom? And I see no head. Looks like there is plenty of room for an enclosed head.
People this is not supposed to compete with a melges32 but a catahunter 28. I own a Tartan28 which at the time, in the early 80's, was a fairly quick, decently appointed 28er. This is the new version of that design brief. I would change out the little square hunter windows for a couple of opening lewmars, try to do something with the rubrail, get rid of that silly wheel, at least put a 44" on for pictures, and sell some. Get that little wheel off and delete that image from everywhere. Lift keel and lift rudder. I think the masses have been waiting for this. Ya people will jump on the bandwagon and say this and that but they are squarely NOT the target group. I would also build a fixed keel 5.5" draft version. Would be a bit sturdier for the newbies to run aground, and more room to waltz around below. 6"5" draft is a bit much for new boat owners.
Again, how much?



I thought the same thing about the head - but I think the head is located on the port side across from the starboard sink. Head sorta looks like a sink in the graphic. Guessing but makes sense.

The only other thing is that the side decks look like they could be a little narrow but hard to say unless your walking around on it. Yes the small windows aft of the large window - they might want to change the look a little - I thought it was a Hunter when I first saw it.

Small inboard diesel/sail drive option would be a good idea also.

I think they are on to a good idea - we need more family sailors with design aspects pulled from current racy designs.

#128 AWKIII

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 01:14 AM

I like it just fine as I said before, for what it is. Again, a big step in the right direction. It looks like a very good third option in the US (or wherever). Starter boat for the masses VS hunter or catalina. THE WHEEL IS AN OPTION I also said before. Look on the website.
Um, Mr Dibbly, how much is this boat going to sell for? What do you suppose it will PHRF out to. I'm thinking fairly quick COMPARED to the competition in family cruisers. Is there really 6' headroom? And I see no head. Looks like there is plenty of room for an enclosed head.
People this is not supposed to compete with a melges32 but a catahunter 28. I own a Tartan28 which at the time, in the early 80's, was a fairly quick, decently appointed 28er. This is the new version of that design brief. I would change out the little square hunter windows for a couple of opening lewmars, try to do something with the rubrail, get rid of that silly wheel, at least put a 44" on for pictures, and sell some. Get that little wheel off and delete that image from everywhere. Lift keel and lift rudder. I think the masses have been waiting for this. Ya people will jump on the bandwagon and say this and that but they are squarely NOT the target group. I would also build a fixed keel 5.5" draft version. Would be a bit sturdier for the newbies to run aground, and more room to waltz around below. 6"5" draft is a bit much for new boat owners.
Again, how much?


Hi H20.

My name is Arthur Kelly and I am President of Kiwi Boat Works U.S.A. located in Elizabeth, Colorado.

First let me thank the Editor for placing one of our early construction photographs on the site. We have been thrilled to see the number of hits to this thread as well as the numerous inquiries that have been received to date.

Please note that the picture represents the prototype of the K-280c and there will obviously be modifications as we move forward.

We are still working on pricing but are getting close.

The standard boat will be fairly well equipped:

Features include:

Trailer
Lewmar Deck Hardware
Lewmar Hatches
Pulpit
Double Lifelines
Pushpits with seats
Z-Spars/U.S. Spars Rig (Designed by Chris Mitchell)
Z-Spars/U.S. Spars Rigid Vang
Carbon Fiber Prod Tube, Prod & Hardware
Cockpit Shower

Two Private Staterooms
Teak Doors and Trim
Separate Saloon
Fold Down Nav Table
Drop Down Mult-Leafed Dining Table
Galley with Pressurized Water
Head with Pressurized Water
Electrical System
Cabin Lighting
AM/FM CD Player (ipod ready) & Speakers
110 Shore Power with Interior Receptacles
Sunbrella Brand Interior Fabric on Cushions & Backs

Options will include:

The Infamous Lewmar Pedestal Steering System
Teak Flooring
TackTick or Raymarine Instruments
Sails

Doyle will be building the sails. There are two options. A top of the line Dacron set or a Pentex laminate.

This is how we are looking at things as of today. It will undoubtedly change.

A new Hunter 27 or Catalina 280 will cost about $75 to $80,000 today.
A new Hunter 25 or Catalina 250 will run around $35 to $40,000.00.
And yes, believe it or not, a new MacGregor 26M with an outboard will cost around $31,000.00

H20.....based on what you know about the boat to date and what I have provided, what would you peg the base price at to not only be competitive bu to drive market share.

I ask this because your post is so close to our original brief.

Best regards,

Art Kelly

#129 Kent H

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 07:36 AM

- First I don't see the "ugly" part about the boat. Looks fine for a 28 foot, 8 foot beam. Keep in mind that the picture shown here was last years big 28 foot entry for the same market. The 280c looks fairly conservative compared to the ETAP 28. The Etap is $116,000 US East Coast. With sails.

-Second my opinion about sales is really only valid for the US and Canada Great lakes and East Coast. I am somewhat out of my territory in the rest of the world!

- As for the Comparison Hunter has that 27X with the bow sprit. That seems like the best comparison. The Catalina 28 is a very nice reliable boat but does not have a sprit. For someone who isn't going to fly a Spin or is worried about speed the Catalina is hard to beat. The Hunter at Sail away is going to be tough to get out the door under 70K. Be carefull in your comparisions as the regular 27 is much less. I suspect $74k for race ready is about right.

Wheel Issue : Lewmar folding option can solve that. Lewmar foldiing wheel.

I think there is beginning to be a market in the US and Canada for this boat. But there are still a good number of used boats out there that are in good shape.

The keys to this boats success have to be:


1. It can't have problems like the FT-10:

If price is the number one selling point then the game is up. The person who is going to buy this boat will make that decision because they want a new boat that does not have the problems of a used boat. They will pay a premium for that. Read NO PROBLEMS!

2. Sailing performance. I am looking at this design and am curious just what the waterline beam is. If this is to be a "Family Boat" (ie little kids aboard) what are the righting characteristics? It is one thing to have a tippy FT-10 or a JS9000 (add your narrow waterline beam boat) but try that with the "Family" boat and it will last all of one sail before the "For Sale" sign is out.

3. Head. Has to be nice. Whether it is Business Jets or New homes the Head is a huge issue for Women. Men just do not understand how important from a sales standpoint the bathroom is. I am still just dumbstruck by a recent survey that showed a majority of women will not get on a plane that does not have a head. Kind of late as the Air Taxi biz is just starting out in the South East US with a bunch of jets that have no head! Working with a narrow beam and having room for a nice head is not easy. The drawing of the head looks good in that it can be entered from the bow without entering the main cabin. I am curious how this will work out because of size limitations. Also the option of a holding tank with or without a Y valve will have to happen if this boat is to be sold in many eastern North American areas.


I am looking at the boat and saw the specs. My take on it is that someone did a pretty good survey and is trying to fill each of those points. I don't really know of any competition for this boat. If it does not have quality problems and sails decently for what it is Kiwi may just sell a ton of boats.

Kiwi Boatworks and any prospective customers may just want to read through the FT-10 forum as problems raised with the FT-10 Head, EU cert, Container, trailer etc are in there. Little items that will avoid problems latter.




Looks good!

Attached Files



#130 H20

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 10:00 AM

Hi H20.

My name is Arthur Kelly and I am President of Kiwi Boat Works U.S.A. located in Elizabeth, Colorado.

First let me thank the Editor for placing one of our early construction photographs on the site. We have been thrilled to see the number of hits to this thread as well as the numerous inquiries that have been received to date.

Please note that the picture represents the prototype of the K-280c and there will obviously be modifications as we move forward.

We are still working on pricing but are getting close.

The standard boat will be fairly well equipped:

Features include:

Trailer
Lewmar Deck Hardware
Lewmar Hatches
Pulpit
Double Lifelines
Pushpits with seats
Z-Spars/U.S. Spars Rig (Designed by Chris Mitchell)
Z-Spars/U.S. Spars Rigid Vang
Carbon Fiber Prod Tube, Prod & Hardware
Cockpit Shower

Two Private Staterooms
Teak Doors and Trim
Separate Saloon
Fold Down Nav Table
Drop Down Mult-Leafed Dining Table
Galley with Pressurized Water
Head with Pressurized Water
Electrical System
Cabin Lighting
AM/FM CD Player (ipod ready) & Speakers
110 Shore Power with Interior Receptacles
Sunbrella Brand Interior Fabric on Cushions & Backs

Options will include:

The Infamous Lewmar Pedestal Steering System
Teak Flooring
TackTick or Raymarine Instruments
Sails

Doyle will be building the sails. There are two options. A top of the line Dacron set or a Pentex laminate.

This is how we are looking at things as of today. It will undoubtedly change.

A new Hunter 27 or Catalina 280 will cost about $75 to $80,000 today.
A new Hunter 25 or Catalina 250 will run around $35 to $40,000.00.
And yes, believe it or not, a new MacGregor 26M with an outboard will cost around $31,000.00

H20.....based on what you know about the boat to date and what I have provided, what would you peg the base price at to not only be competitive bu to drive market share.

I ask this because your post is so close to our original brief.

Best regards,

Art Kelly

Well I dont know. I presume you can come in at a lower price point by your tone. I havent studied the market because I am not in it you see. Part of it, but not in it. And I don't know how sales of your competitor boats are doing. Hopefully well. Some more discussion though if you don't mind.
You don't need a cockpit shower. You need a mixer in the head with a shower built in. This is good for two reasons, Showering and hosing down the head. This will require a drain to pump out compartment. The open transom sadly, will scare some new buyer boneheads. Throw on some removable essence of something. Make it cheap.
Unless you are paying 150 bucks for the rigid vang, shitcan it and go with boomkicker or nothing. Target group will only be confused, and you will need the money for other things on the list.
You need inboard propulsion. I guess saildrive is the wave of the future but bonehead first boat buyers WILL fuck it up withing a season or two. Standard installation with prop shaft is better for bonehead buyers.
The lift keel etc. will scare bonehead buyers. The trailor sailer set is a very tiny market share. Nice option but I don't know. Trailor racers will love it but will not be looking at your chubby boat as a racer. So I don't know. I would like it because cheap (read POOR) sailor me could bring the bloody thing home for the off season. I may be 100% wrong on this though. Swing keel boats sold well back in the day. Do thrash the shit out of the rudder cassette. I dont see enough vertical area to have a warm fuzzy feeling about the mounting.
Put a larger wheel on demo boat. Sell with tiny wheel if you must. First time buyers will LOVE that option. Put a wheel pilot on demo boats. I have a wheel, The cruiser in me loves it, the racer in me hates it. I don't know about wheel/outboard rudder myself, but others have made it work, notably the absurdly overpriced POS seaward line. Seems like you could build a console and use less expensive gear then edson for this job, but maybe not. Standard gear for outboards should work. Dunno. Console handy for mounting guages and so forth.
So lets see. With outboard power built in china with amenities, maybe 55-65 fob usa somewhere? I think you would sell some. I hope you do.

EDIT: The catalina 28 will look HUGE compared to this boat, but this boat should blow it away speedwise. I think people are going to like that aspect and maybe she will be bought partly for her speed after all. I'm thinking if you keep her light enough she should compete with the old flyers and T10 etc. at about a perf of 130?
Anyway good luck with it.

#131 AWKIII

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 12:45 PM

Well I dont know. I presume you can come in at a lower price point by your tone. I havent studied the market because I am not in it you see. Part of it, but not in it. And I don't know how sales of your competitor boats are doing. Hopefully well. Some more discussion though if you don't mind.
You don't need a cockpit shower. You need a mixer in the head with a shower built in. This is good for two reasons, Showering and hosing down the head. This will require a drain to pump out compartment. The open transom sadly, will scare some new buyer boneheads. Throw on some removable essence of something. Make it cheap.
Unless you are paying 150 bucks for the rigid vang, shitcan it and go with boomkicker or nothing. Target group will only be confused, and you will need the money for other things on the list.
You need inboard propulsion. I guess saildrive is the wave of the future but bonehead first boat buyers WILL fuck it up withing a season or two. Standard installation with prop shaft is better for bonehead buyers.
The lift keel etc. will scare bonehead buyers. The trailor sailer set is a very tiny market share. Nice option but I don't know. Trailor racers will love it but will not be looking at your chubby boat as a racer. So I don't know. I would like it because cheap (read POOR) sailor me could bring the bloody thing home for the off season. I may be 100% wrong on this though. Swing keel boats sold well back in the day. Do thrash the shit out of the rudder cassette. I dont see enough vertical area to have a warm fuzzy feeling about the mounting.
Put a larger wheel on demo boat. Sell with tiny wheel if you must. First time buyers will LOVE that option. Put a wheel pilot on demo boats. I have a wheel, The cruiser in me loves it, the racer in me hates it. I don't know about wheel/outboard rudder myself, but others have made it work, notably the absurdly overpriced POS seaward line. Seems like you could build a console and use less expensive gear then edson for this job, but maybe not. Standard gear for outboards should work. Dunno. Console handy for mounting guages and so forth.
So lets see. With outboard power built in china with amenities, maybe 55-65 fob usa somewhere? I think you would sell some. I hope you do.

EDIT: The catalina 28 will look HUGE compared to this boat, but this boat should blow it away speedwise. I think people are going to like that aspect and maybe she will be bought partly for her speed after all. I'm thinking if you keep her light enough she should compete with the old flyers and T10 etc. at about a perf of 130?
Anyway good luck with it.


Hi H20.

Thanks for the response.

We are still pounding out the numbers but how does $50,000.00 for the base boat sound?

The current competition for the under 30' market primarily consists of the boats listed above. There are approximately 1,000 sold per year total. MacGregor sells 600 of them! This figure also does not include sales in the used boat market. A couple things to note: The Catalina 270 and Hunter 27 are not trailerable (they cannot be ramp launched and retrieved). Also, the used market offers very little in terms of a true trailerable yacht. What is available is closing in on 20 to 30 years old.

The head will have a shower with pressurized water.

The transom will be closed off for safety reasons. Double lifelines will extend from both pushpits to stanchion type device. Each side will have pelican hooks for easy exit and entry to the boat. Also, the boat has a concealed slide-out swimming/boarding ladder located under the cockpit floor at the transom.

Based on the market research we have performed, it suggests there is a large market for the retractable keel. I grew up in Newport, Rhode Island and remember my father always complaining about the costs of yard storage, slips, etc. With this boat all you have to do is motor it on the trailer and take it home. You can rig the boat with two people in under 30 minutes.

For folks living on the coasts, I can see where there may be a little less need for the retractable keel. I live in Colorado. There are plenty of places to sail but almost no facilities that offer a crane to splash a boat. This situation is typical in several midwestern and southwestern states.

I really appreciate your comments. Have already printed them out and will definitely refer to them as this boat goes through its final stages of completion.

Best regards,

Art Kelly

#132 Buckethead

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 01:39 PM

Really like the open transom for a couple of reasons. Safety being one of them. I unfortunately now know how much easier it is to get someone back onboard w/ the open transom. It will also offer more space at the dock with the tiller out of the way.

#133 Buckethead

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 01:48 PM

The K 230 looks very interesting as well....


http://www.dibleymar.../sail/k230.html

#134 H20

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 03:09 PM

Hi H20.

Thanks for the response.

We are still pounding out the numbers but how does $50,000.00 for the base boat sound?

The current competition for the under 30' market primarily consists of the boats listed above. There are approximately 1,000 sold per year total. MacGregor sells 600 of them! This figure also does not include sales in the used boat market. A couple things to note: The Catalina 270 and Hunter 27 are not trailerable (they cannot be ramp launched and retrieved). Also, the used market offers very little in terms of a true trailerable yacht. What is available is closing in on 20 to 30 years old.

The head will have a shower with pressurized water.

The transom will be closed off for safety reasons. Double lifelines will extend from both pushpits to stanchion type device. Each side will have pelican hooks for easy exit and entry to the boat. Also, the boat has a concealed slide-out swimming/boarding ladder located under the cockpit floor at the transom.

Based on the market research we have performed, it suggests there is a large market for the retractable keel. I grew up in Newport, Rhode Island and remember my father always complaining about the costs of yard storage, slips, etc. With this boat all you have to do is motor it on the trailer and take it home. You can rig the boat with two people in under 30 minutes.

For folks living on the coasts, I can see where there may be a little less need for the retractable keel. I live in Colorado. There are plenty of places to sail but almost no facilities that offer a crane to splash a boat. This situation is typical in several midwestern and southwestern states.

I really appreciate your comments. Have already printed them out and will definitely refer to them as this boat goes through its final stages of completion.

Best regards,

Art Kelly


Well all that being the case, You ship me one to CT. I will commission it, slip it, demo it, race it ( I won my ecsa div), demo launch and retrieve it, and keep it sparkly. I will keep my boat on the stands. I'm not kidding. You need one on the east coast anyway. I can drag it around to shows with the durango when needed. I sold my real truck but the durango will do. I WAS a trailer sailor for years. I have everything in place do do this and the spare time to do it. My buddy who races with me is a giant AND a rocket scientist. There is nothing we can't do and I can sell screen doors to submarines. Make this one red please.
What will I get out of this? Nothing really but the boat looks like fun. Well maybe that 500 bucks a boat wouldnt hurt. PM me for referances. I got plenty.

#135 AWKIII

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 07:35 PM

Well all that being the case, You ship me one to CT. I will commission it, slip it, demo it, race it ( I won my ecsa div), demo launch and retrieve it, and keep it sparkly. I will keep my boat on the stands. I'm not kidding. You need one on the east coast anyway. I can drag it around to shows with the durango when needed. I sold my real truck but the durango will do. I WAS a trailer sailor for years. I have everything in place do do this and the spare time to do it. My buddy who races with me is a giant AND a rocket scientist. There is nothing we can't do and I can sell screen doors to submarines. Make this one red please.
What will I get out of this? Nothing really but the boat looks like fun. Well maybe that 500 bucks a boat wouldnt hurt. PM me for referances. I got plenty.


That's some high quality H20!

We are not going to rush the boat to market. Too much time and money has been spent to get this far. Sea trials are scheduled for the west coast in about 45 days. However, we are hoping to be able to make the Newport and Annapolis shows. Would love to have some help on and off the water if it all works out. We may even be able to pay ya!

Cheers,

Art Kelly

I have your

#136 H20

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Posted 14 April 2007 - 08:54 PM

That's some high quality H20!

We are not going to rush the boat to market. Too much time and money has been spent to get this far. Sea trials are scheduled for the west coast in about 45 days. However, we are hoping to be able to make the Newport and Annapolis shows. Would love to have some help on and off the water if it all works out. We may even be able to pay ya!

Cheers,

Art Kelly

I have your

Roger that. Do make a red one though.
Later

#137 Blow Me: 1437

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 01:57 AM

dibley k280 new zeland

#138 USA-7

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 11:07 AM

dibley k280 new zeland

bump

#139 Bulbhunter

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Posted 16 April 2007 - 05:41 PM

That's some high quality H20!

We are not going to rush the boat to market. Too much time and money has been spent to get this far. Sea trials are scheduled for the west coast in about 45 days. However, we are hoping to be able to make the Newport and Annapolis shows. Would love to have some help on and off the water if it all works out. We may even be able to pay ya!

Cheers,

Art Kelly

I have your



I'm interested and in SF - based at RYC if your in the area with the KC280 feeling out the waters let me know! Wife and I want a slick mini cruiser with some racer bloodlines (even if its muted some). I agree on the solid vang - either do a simple boomkicker or leave it out. Make a provision for the saildrive idea is a must - if we buy a mini cruiser it will have a proper diesel inboard- small is Ok as long as she pushes along 5-6 knots in resonable conditions. Though if it knocks our socks off on everything else an outboard might be the one thing we could ignor.

Very curious H20 - wow good thoughts! -- I agree the C280 is a tough boat to beat and the reason the wife and I are not interested - it looks old school- it sails old school and lacks an asymetric set up. The fixed keel thing doesn't bother me to much - and if the lifting keel set up isn't done well I'll pass on it. The first 27.7 has a wet keel box no sealed top - a bit stupid if you ask me. My U20 set up is very simple and works well though can be tender if you bump bottom. I can imagine the lifting keel isn't easy to design for both interior intrusion and effective operation and durability, so curious to see the KC.

Thanks for the info.
Looking forward to checking it out. Wife is walking the Oakland boat show this weekend with a new eye for things - little cruiser boat ideas on her mind. So curious to hear her thoughts after she looks around. She's done some charter trips so she has an idea of what works well and what she would like in a weekend mini cruiser.




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