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Bullshit Moves


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#101 NoStrings

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 07:20 PM

Finally, we get a funny post from Mr. Burns. It's taken how fucking long?

#102 This Is My Alternate Identity

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 07:25 PM

We haven't seen Bull Gaytor bitchslapped like this for a long, long time.

#103 Chris J/105

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 07:36 PM

If the 105 beat you...shut up. Good move on his part. If you beat him... shut up. Good move on your part. Would you be whinning if this was another Flying Kitty? Probably not. Just another example of 105 discrimination and lack of respect for those who race them. I guess you didn't buy a 105 because you thought you'd win every regatta and it just wouldn't be fun to be so superior to all the 105 sailors. Maybe you need to sail somewhere other than that cesspool you call San Diego. Maybe a place where it blows more than 10knots.


Thank you.

I sail a 105 because we can put 15 competitive boats on a typical weekend line, 20-30 for the NOODs, 40 at Key West and 40-50 for the NAC's. Every year. Hell- our club's Wednesday beer can races have 6 on the line for Christ's sake. When the FT class reaches those kind of numbers let me know. It's a great looking boat and has had a good start, but don't wreck it by turning into dickhead snobs like some classes have.

#104 aA

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 07:37 PM

it never ends...

#105 Editor

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 07:43 PM

Sounds like you got told Ed. By this point it was a match race, and you got schooled. Learn from it, and maybe next time you'll deal with it on the water instead of slagging this guy off on the net. It's like the adult version of a kid crying to mummy 'cos he got whipped.


It wasn't a match race - we're 30 + seconds per mile faster and had already caught him at the leeward mark with a couple mile beat left. He was toast and no matter what we we're going around him. It is amazing to see how many of you computer cowboys know that I got "schooled" by some clown who luffed us after the leeward mark. Like I said, I call that a bullshit move and if indeed the dude was so brilliant that he knew we'd lose 30 boat lengths by forcing us away in a "match race" then he must be the greatest sailor ever.

How many fucking times do I have to tell y'all I expect to be pinched off at some point, if we become a threat to roll them, (which we were not) I just don't expect the guy to stuff it right at the leeward mark - nobody does that unless it is a 'fuck you' move, which it was, which was my point. Sure, people pull fuck you moves all the time and I don't like it. Lot of anger from you people today....

#106 NoStrings

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:01 PM

Si.

It's funny how some people in life like to say "fuck you"


That's really odd, I seem to have seen those very words just a few minutes ago.

#107 Mr Lahey

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:05 PM

It's funny how some people in life like to say "fuck you" to someone else. But when someone says "Fuck you" to them once in awhile, they just can't handle it.

'Nuff said ?

#108 surf nazi

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:05 PM

You've obviously been sailing keel boats for too long. Next time try the patented,” DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHO I AM" hail.


Yes, he forgot the famous " Brodie hail " and he substituted an internet fight for actual fisticuffs.

#109 Barkley

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:08 PM

Lot of anger from you people today....


Or people just don't agree with you...

#110 Mr Lahey

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:12 PM

How many fucking times do I have to tell y'all I expect to be pinched off at some point, if we become a threat to roll them, (which we were not) I just don't expect the guy to stuff it right at the leeward mark - nobody does that unless it is a 'fuck you' move, which it was, which was my point. Sure, people pull fuck you moves all the time and I don't like it. Lot of anger from you people today....


I wanted to ask about this. You said at some point you expect to be "pinched off" WHEN you are a threat to roll them, as you put it. So should the J/105 wait until you built enough speed and run the risk that you might actually be able to overtake them ? Or should they have pinched you off right from the get go and not let you even had a chance to roll them ? The answer seems obvious to me if you are on the J/105.

Secondly, if you were going to go around him no matter what (as you put it) and it was not going to be by rolling him; why did you try and plant yourself on his hip instead of carrying on for a few lenghts and gaining some seperation before tacking ?

Last; Why didn't you carry on a few lengths and gain enough seperation so the J/105 could not pinch you off ?

Not trying to be a prick, just asking.

#111 NoStrings

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:12 PM

I think Dawg is going to have to change the email protocol to allow sending of email to groups. That way we could all get the "Fuck Off" form letter at once. It's a big time saver.

#112 Bob Perry

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:13 PM

I saw a bumper sticker that read:
"My anger managment classes just piss me off!"

#113 This Is My Alternate Identity

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:18 PM

I think Dawg is going to have to change the email protocol to allow sending of email to groups. That way we could all get the "Fuck Off" form letter at once. It's a big time saver.


Now THAT'S funny :lol:

Not to stir the pot too much more... One of my sailing mentors once told me that "Arguing with a jerk is slow." Scot obviously thought the J-105 skipper was a jerk and perhaps should have just let it go. Might have only been 3 boatlenghts lost rather than 30.

#114 Inter 20

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:19 PM

It wasn't a match race - we're 30 + seconds per mile faster and had already caught him at the leeward mark with a couple mile beat left. He was toast and no matter what we we're going around him. It is amazing to see how many of you computer cowboys know that I got "schooled" by some clown who luffed us after the leeward mark. Like I said, I call that a bullshit move and if indeed the dude was so brilliant that he knew we'd lose 30 boat lengths by forcing us away in a "match race" then he must be the greatest sailor ever.

How many fucking times do I have to tell y'all I expect to be pinched off at some point, if we become a threat to roll them, (which we were not) I just don't expect the guy to stuff it right at the leeward mark - nobody does that unless it is a 'fuck you' move, which it was, which was my point. Sure, people pull fuck you moves all the time and I don't like it. Lot of anger from you people today....

Hey MR. Ed... PHRF Racing 101... Faster boats should always round outside a slower boat at the leeward mark. PHRF Racing 102.... Know your competition's strengths and weaknesses. PHRF Racing 103... By all means never, and I mean never, let your competition know that you can become easily unglued. Looks like you failed all 3 courses.

#115 maggie40738

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:37 PM

It is amazing to see how many of you computer cowboys know that I got "schooled" by some clown who luffed us after the leeward mark.


"Computer cowboys"...hehe... Ed, you're one funny guy. Like the people posting here never race.



Oh, and make no mistake, losing 30 boatlenths due to a tactical manuever is "getting schooled" bigtime

#116 fastwhenwet

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:42 PM

BINGO be a man ED and give some swag to INTER 20, he pretty much nailed it. You fucked up and still won the race, wish we could all say that. Either you are one big pussy whiner or are playing shock jock to see how much shit you can stir up. Hope it is the latter because if it is the former we should start a fund raiser to send you to Sweden so you can legitimately become the wus you sound like by bitching about a legal and to be anticipated move.

#117 NoStrings

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:45 PM

If it was the latter, a bunch of us wouldn't be getting these lovely hate-o-grams in our message boxes.

#118 cvt1

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:45 PM

Word.

On an upwind leg...I think driving down is legal... Off the wind it is illegal.

But here goes. I think this entire thread is wrongheaded:

I am not a big fan of sailing to screw the other guy. But. if the contest is to win and my competitor uses every tool in his bag?? Good for him / her.

Let's put it this way. I want to race against people who are trying really hard to finish in front of me.
Isn't that game why we race at the same time?

When "some hack" finds himself at the front of the fleet the reaction ought to be," GOOD FOR HIM!!!" You are still 100% obligated to do your damndest to pass him. Winning because the good guys let you is one of the worst forms of being screwed.

So, when the hacker misuses tools and flubs his way up to among the unfamiliar part of the fleet, you could simply appreciate that the hacker is doing his very best and perhaps, he knows he is way out of his league and trying to for one damn time in his miserable life...to be able to stay in front of you.

The guy just might be sailing the race of his life. The race of his life might be defined by the fact that he is in front of you.
Do you want him to quit trying??

The way I see the original complaint at the top of this thread there were other possible responses that would have been a hell of a lot more fun than getting all pissed off.

The response could have been, "Alright. This last guy is gonna put up a fight!"

Hell, the race was almost over for you. You already blew away everybody else. Once you get in front of everybody with the fastest boat, it is just a boring competitorless cruise to the finish.

The last guy was doing his best to provide you with a contest of some sort. Isn't that contest swith other boats why you entered the RACE?

The new object could have easily become to pass the guy. Slow him down and put at least three boats between you and him while still winning the race.

You could have yelled. "Alright. The game is on now. First guy to the dock buys beer for the second boat."

Then you could have blown by him and delivered that beer.

It is a game.

It is play!!

Unwad your panties and have some fun!!!

I say the bullshit move is posting your whine on your website.

My take?

You owe the hacker an apology.



#119 Editor

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:46 PM

I wanted to ask about this. You said at some point you expect to be "pinched off" WHEN you are a threat to roll them, as you put it. So should the J/105 wait until you built enough speed and run the risk that you might actually be able to overtake them ? Or should they have pinched you off right from the get go and not let you even had a chance to roll them ? The answer seems obvious to me if you are on the J/105.

Secondly, if you were going to go around him no matter what (as you put it) and it was not going to be by rolling him; why did you try and plant yourself on his hip instead of carrying on for a few lenghts and gaining some seperation before tacking ?

Last; Why didn't you carry on a few lengths and gain enough seperation so the J/105 could not pinch you off ?

Not trying to be a prick, just asking.


Gee imagine that, an actual question instead of some accusation that I am a whiner...I thought we could at least live there a bit before we had to bail and was, surprised that he jammed us up like that. We didn't have much room to operate anyway, and the right thing to do, again in retrospect would have been to just foot well under him and speed to the corner. It was, in retrospect my mistake and also I should have known that I was dealing with a guy who pulls moves like that. It was a move he didn't have to make because we had zero leverage on him, but he did, and know I know.

#120 JDL

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:47 PM

we should start a fund raiser to send you to Sweden


Overkill, take the money raised and hire Isler to give the Ed some on-water coaching. ;)

#121 Mark K

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:51 PM

The Ed's right. It's a dick move to luff someone head to wind in a
handicap race unless you have to. Especially in a 105. They accelerate
like a pregnant hippo going uphill. Pure murder/suicide to matchrace
in a fleet, but it's a pretty common occurance. If a guy sticks his nose
to weather of me on my hip close aboard, I know there are two
things he might be thinking, if thinking is involved:

One, that he thinks he is going to roll me. Fat chance
from there in a simular sized boat, but if it's going to happen it's
going to take awhile, and there is no need as yet to stop my boat.
In fact, I know that once he get's close to that position, for
some time I will be in his leebow and getting lifted, accelerated
air. I will be getting a boost to the favored side of the course,
and when I do have to tack away, I will be closer to where I want
to be. Overall, further up the course than if I play luffing games.

Two, that he want's to be able to tack away, and needs to keep from getting
stuck in leeward overlap. Again, no need to stop my boat.

The Ed's right, it's a dick move. His only mistake is in not anticipating a dick
move. As this thread shows, there are a lot of dicks out there.
That is very much part of the game.

#122 d'ranger

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:56 PM

What most of you guys have missed is ED finished 2nd in fleet and class by 30 seconds, the 105 was 1st in class and 3rd in fleet. A boat coming from behind beat both of them.

I would have been pissed as well, in all my years of racing all kinds of boats I have never had anyone stuff head to wind right after rounding a leeward mark. And I have seen some really weird things.

#123 BIAM

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:58 PM

jesus christ ed, you made it home with your rudder intact....

be thankful for the big things, and let the little shit go..........

#124 SA Lurker

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:59 PM

I just don't expect...


Therein lies part of the problem...

You're too easy to bait [FT10 Fleet take note].

#125 Hank

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 08:59 PM

Hey MR. Ed... PHRF Racing 101... Faster boats should always round outside a slower boat at the leeward mark. PHRF Racing 102.... Know your competition's strengths and weaknesses. PHRF Racing 103... By all means never, and I mean never, let your competition know that you can become easily unglued. Looks like you failed all 3 courses.




This is too FUNNY.........

I have been doing reverse start / pursuit races since I was 10 years old in the early 1970s…….

When a faster boat is going to pass you ½ way or even ¾ of the way thru the race the best thing is to realize you are in a DAMAGE CONTROL MODE………

You let the faster boat get by you with out getting your air disrupted, DON’T you.

But if your are a “DICK HEAD” or should we say “SORE LOSER” you take them head to wind………..!!??


Ok all you “ARM CHAIR SKIPPERS”???? How many pursuit / PAC MAN races have you done……..or should I say WON!!

Yes I must agree with the editor here…….it looks like it is “ANGRY HOUR” at SA

“The Best Of Times”………….LOL

#126 RumBulls

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:00 PM

No love for the Ed today....and rightly so.


Our crew, along with most of the sailors I sail with have a rule...."What happens on the water, stays on the water".

All problems that might sneak on land are to be drowned by Rum.




Go drink some rum!

#127 Editor

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:02 PM

What most of you guys have missed is ED finished 2nd in fleet and class by 30 seconds, the 105 was 1st in class and 3rd in fleet. A boat coming from behind beat both of them.

I would have been pissed as well, in all my years of racing all kinds of boats I have never had anyone stuff head to wind right after rounding a leeward mark. And I have seen some really weird things.



That's probably what I'm most pissed at - if we don't get forced away and end up in the lighter air - we win the whole fucking thing! Though I think some of you post some of the stupidest shit imaginable, I am glad to hear how some of you view it. I got schooled allright, but it wasn't from the other boat, it was from the anarchists - long live anarchy.

#128 Hippie

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:18 PM

When approaching a mark you should always look to see who is near it. Decide then if it is worth being near them.

Leeward mark scenario:Mark kept to port

If the boat ahead is slower and you want to work right just go below him. If boat ahead is faster and you want to go right this problem takes care of itself.

If the boat is slow and you want to work left, round the mark and then tack. If the boat is fast tack and go left.

If you want to the same direction as the guy in front of you and you are faster than him, why not duck below him gain some speed and then pinch him off?

If you are waiting to get pinched off for that long you are probably breaking a rule, Keeping Clear. I am a firm beliver of Keeping Clear as it is taken litterally. Meaning, if the boats don't touch then you kept clear. Problem is the leeward boat has you complete snozwangle pig fucked. All they have to do is keep taking you up, and up, yell leeward boat, and in that second you must move your helm to keep clear. If he drives his boayt down an inch for the purposes of missing your boat, you are out.

Was it a dickhead move? No. Is the guy a dumbass for going slow for that long to try to pinch you off? Yes.

It's really no different than someone tacking on you for no apparent reason other than this is where they want to tack. Sure it affects your race but at the end of the day you are also affecting someone elses race.

Think back to the start of your race. Did you try to force anyone over? Did you sit on someones wind for a couple of minutes?

No one broke a rule.

#129 Editor

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:40 PM

No, it was a dickhead move, but you are right that I should have been smarter, dove off, and not been at the mercy of the dick. Lesson learned.

#130 NoStrings

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:41 PM

When a faster boat is going to pass you ½ way or even ¾ of the way thru the race the best thing is to realize you are in a DAMAGE CONTROL MODE………

You let the faster boat get by you with out getting your air disrupted, DON’T you.

But if your are a “DICK HEAD” or should we say “SORE LOSER” you take them head to wind………..!!??


Ok, so it's ok if a faster boat disrupts the slower boat's wind, but it's not ok for a slower boat to defend their wind? Come on now, this knife has to cut in both directions.

#131 DoRag

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:45 PM

Thank you.

I sail a 105 because we can put 15 competitive boats on a typical weekend line, 20-30 for the NOODs, 40 at Key West and 40-50 for the NAC's. Every year. Hell- our club's Wednesday beer can races have 6 on the line for Christ's sake. When the FT class reaches those kind of numbers let me know. It's a great looking boat and has had a good start, but don't wreck it by turning into dickhead snobs like some classes have.



You sail in a 15 boat competitive class locally?

Oh c'mon, there aren't 15 competitive J105's in the entire fleet of 600+ boats.

Newbie sails a J105; heh, heh, heh.

#132 brown scented bilgewax

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 09:52 PM

From the front page....
Question of the Week
Bullshit Moves

So the question of the week is, can you tell us about a bullshit move that has been pulled on you? Or maybe you've pulled one on someone else? Bring it! Oh yeah, and have fun.


While watching The Ed's own Frankenstein monster come alive and devour him has been fun... <_< the above was the original question. There are a lot of maneuvers in sailing that are technically legal, but complete bullshit moves. I believe this was started as an opportunity to out some of them. Wouldn't want a compulsive luffing rights guy or somebody who carries more than one protest flag onboard at all times to miss their chance in the spotlight.

Maybe we could limit flaming the Ed to every 3rd or 4th post?

#133 Mr Lahey

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 10:11 PM

Gee imagine that, an actual question instead of some accusation that I am a whiner...I thought we could at least live there a bit before we had to bail and was, surprised that he jammed us up like that. We didn't have much room to operate anyway, and the right thing to do, again in retrospect would have been to just foot well under him and speed to the corner. It was, in retrospect my mistake and also I should have known that I was dealing with a guy who pulls moves like that. It was a move he didn't have to make because we had zero leverage on him, but he did, and know I know.



Thanks for answering my question and it is refreshing to hear you learned something so you would do things differently next time.

You probably figured out that I am usually the person on a slower boat, but every now and then we run into boats even slower than we are. Sometimes they can be a pain because they don’t know what they are doing, and sometimes they can and will mess with your race just because they can and that will be a piss off.

My basic rule when needing to pass slower boats is never try to roll a slower boat to weather. Upwind or downwind no matter how fast you are, rolling someone to weather is kind of a fuck you move in itself. And when you say Fuck You, you will almost always have the other guy say Fuck you in return; usually by a vicious luff up if you are trying to roll him. If you are the faster boat not in the same fleet find a way to get by the guy to leeward. More often then not the other guy will realize that you could have been a prick and rolled him, will appreciate that you are trying to take them to leeward instead, and often will even help you out to make it less painful for everyone involved.

At least that has been my experience.

#134 jo-mama

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 10:13 PM

here ya go ed, a real money maker!

time to market the official SA crying towel !

$7.95 + s&h

monagrams extra.

Posted Image

#135 Hank

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 10:27 PM

Ok, so it's ok if a faster boat disrupts the slower boat's wind, but it's not ok for a slower boat to defend their wind? Come on now, this knife has to cut in both directions.


Yes it is ok if the faster boat disrupts the slower boats wind and YES it ok for the slower boat to defend.

But to have the slower boat defend to the point where you slow yourself down so that other boats in pursuit may catch you, either in your class or over all in fleet. To slow yourself down to possibly lose boats is STUPID and yes in my mind CHICKEN SHIT!!

One thing that is not mentioned is that this race is the San Diego Yacht Clubs opening day race and is supposed to be a fun race. I do not think there are even trophies for this race, but I may not be correct there.


And any how if I wanted your OPINION ….I would given it to YOU…

Just kidding…….Where is the love .......not the knife??

Hank..out

#136 kinardly

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 11:28 PM

Yes it is ok if the faster boat disrupts the slower boats wind and YES it ok for the slower boat to defend.

But to have the slower boat defend to the point where you slow yourself down so that other boats in pursuit may catch you, either in your class or over all in fleet. To slow yourself down to possibly lose boats is STUPID and yes in my mind CHICKEN SHIT!!

One thing that is not mentioned is that this race is the San Diego Yacht Clubs opening day race and is supposed to be a fun race. I do not think there are even trophies for this race, but I may not be correct there.
And any how if I wanted your OPINION ….I would given it to YOU…

Just kidding…….Where is the love .......not the knife??

Hank..out


Well, not that it matters but they did give out trophies. Secondly, it doesn't matter because any time you race, you ought to race to the max. Thirdly, and this is just IMHO, no one was going to beat Ernie's boat that day so final standings were unchanged as a result of the move.

I know the guy driving the J would say no apology required but he would also be the first to say "Nice job" to Ed for taking his (the J driver's) best shot and coming out on top.

#137 movable ballast

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Posted 25 April 2007 - 11:48 PM

Port to port in sight of the finish. Ahead of us is a vastly earlier starting T-10 who is third in his fleet at that time. A much bigger, much faster vessel is rolling up on his hip. Looks like the fast boat will roll him to winward but close and quick. The T-10 takes him up...and up...and up. Big boat eventually dives down without having lost fleet position (2nd.). T-10 went from third to seventh. In the bar afterward I'm flirting with a young lady and it turns out she races on a different T-10. I inquire as to the mind set that would make that choice. All she says is "Never try to roll a T-10." She said that repeatedly. Go figure.


Did ya get laid after nodding in agreement?

#138 jdougherty

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 12:20 AM

So there we are on a Wed night race with only 6 boats in our fleet very early in the season. I'm set up a half BL to windward and we're on the same ladder rung. All of a sudden I hear "UGGGGGGH". Turns out my "buddy" to leeward jammed his helm to windward and ran his back into my genny. We're both now head to wind and stopped, and I guess I figure I do spins. By the reaction, you'd think his spine was broken. Whatever guy. The stupid part - does this sort of crap all the time all over the place. At the end of the night, where do we end up after the other 4 sail past us? He's in 5th. We're in 6th. Frustrating, aggravating and completely pointless. Lesson learned though - keep your distance both on and off the water.

No you protest, your ‘buddy’ must provide room and opportunity to respond and intentionally causing a collision will get him tossed as well.

#139 Snapper

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 12:27 AM

Ed,

DC must be laughing his arse off right now. You have tipped your hat. If you try to go over us downwind at Yacthing Cup expect to take the 'nados to port!!

-Snap

#140 Mr. Squirrel

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 12:57 AM

I am actually with the Ed on this one. Some dumbass deciding to stop their J-10pig to keep the Ed behind them is stupid. You dont have to roll over and die, but you dont have to stop the boat either. Put down your cheese sandwich and actually work the boat. Point mode, pinch him a bit, accelerate, pinch, accelerate and if he is still faster then just wait until you have enough leverage to really fuck up his day. But stop the boat like that - dickhead move. Or better yet you could say something like - "We wont let you roll us". Then the Ed knows you are going to be a pain in his ass and can choose his course of action accordingly. My guess is he would have tacked away to gain seperation.

And to you geniuses - how about when a faster 30 foot boat is trying to pass a slow 40 foot boat. Good fucking luck rolling them to leeward.

MS

#141 Editor

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:07 AM

Ed,

DC must be laughing his arse off right now. You have tipped your hat. If you try to go over us downwind at Yacthing Cup expect to take the 'nados to port!!

-Snap


Yeah, nothing says great sailor than luffing someone to the moon on a run. Looks like you and case have plenty in common. And it'll be pretty hard to go over you when we're already ahead.

#142 us7070

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:10 AM

The thing is, it's not only about this race - it's in his long term interest to make sure everyone (especially the faster boats) understands that he's not going to be the fleet marshmallow.

So, he took a little hit in this race - but it doesn't appear that he lost a position because of it - and now, the bigger faster boats will all know to either go below him, or, if they are going to go above, not to do it too closely.

that makes it a useful maneuver for the 105: he didn't break any rules, he sent a competitor into a hole, and let everyone know they can't roll over him with impunity.



I am actually with the Ed on this one. Some dumbass deciding to stop their J-10pig to keep the Ed behind them is stupid. You dont have to roll over and die, but you dont have to stop the boat either. Put down your cheese sandwich and actually work the boat. Point mode, pinch him a bit, accelerate, pinch, accelerate and if he is still faster then just wait until you have enough leverage to really fuck up his day. But stop the boat like that - dickhead move. Or better yet you could say something like - "We wont let you roll us". Then the Ed knows you are going to be a pain in his ass and can choose his course of action accordingly. My guess is he would have tacked away to gain seperation.

And to you geniuses - how about when a faster 30 foot boat is trying to pass a slow 40 foot boat. Good fucking luck rolling them to leeward.

MS



#143 Bus Driver

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:16 AM

Recently I was driving a boat for a guy in our club. It is blowing 20-25 and lumpy seas toss the bow around quite a bit. As we approach the windward mark on starboard, this clown stuffs it in from port and I head up to avoid the collision. He apologizes when we roll him and we wave it off. Downwind on the next leg a cruiser comes through the course and we wave to get his attention. He alters course and passes behind us. At the leeward mark, the two boats ahead of us try a drop at the last second. One does a good job but the other shrimps his kite and we have to sail wide to avoid it. He gives us a look, puts the "gun" to his head, and "pulls the trigger" with a smile. We ended up with a second and felt pretty good.

I asked the owner if he would mind it if I took his daughter to a mud-wrestling party at the frat house. He only asks that I have her home by Tuesday. I spend 72 hours having the most mind-bending sex with a collegiate gymnast (think flexible) and she screams the whole time.

The next week I log on to SA and see Ed whining about a mark rounding with a 105. That sorta seems like a bullshit move.

Drive on.

#144 B.J. Porter

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:22 AM

I agree. Why would the J105 give the FT10 a free lane so they can get rolled ? Even if they do not get rolled assuming this was a port rounding the J105 would be pinned and prevented from tacking to port by the FT10 who would be on starboard. Either way it sounds like the J105 made a defensive move to protect their position.

I sometimes can't believe the mentality of faster boats that expect a free pass to roll slower boats, and get pissed of when the slower boat does something to prevent being rolled. Exactly what occured here from what I have read.


There are times and ways to do that...and not do that.

I had a brush with a J-27 on my 40.7 a few years back, I posted out here about it at the time. The J-27 was racing non spinnaker, we were coming down on them very fast approaching the leeward mark. I had three choices...go under, go over, or go into their cockpit. However, we were getting close enough that if I went under, it was not clear that I would be able to get completely ahead of them though I would easily have an overlap before the 2 BL circle...as a result I would force them way out wide of the mark to keep outside me. However, it looked much more like if I heated it up a bit I could quickly roll them and get over and around them, leaving us both a nice rounding.

So, I opted to try to clear over them...we honestly thought that the few seconds of blanketing them would be less painful to them than having to round outside us.

However, the skipper of the J-27 (remember, Jib & main here, not in out class) decided there was NO WAY she was going to let me go over her, and she jammed me up, up, up until my kite collapsed because well, she could.

I shoudl have known better than to try and think like that and should have done what would have been better for me (power under). I should have known because this is a skipper that has in the past shown a clear ignorance of very basic rules (like we're on starboard going downwind and she's on port going upwind, and she refuses to give way, etc.) and tactics. Oh well...it's OK to be learning and to not be knowledgeable (though this skipper had been racin g much longer than me), but I don't think it's OK to be a fool about it when there is no tactical advantage to it. Taking someone up just because you can is not reason to do so; you never do any tactical maneuver just because you can.

#145 GybeSet®

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:22 AM

so Editor, you forgot to ask if the 105 dude had a contortionist daughter

that was where you went wrong see

#146 barleymalt

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:24 AM

The thing is, it's not only about this race - it's in his long term interest to make sure everyone (especially the faster boats) understands that he's not going to be the fleet marshmallow.

So, he took a little hit in this race - but it doesn't appear that he lost a position because of it - and now, the bigger faster boats will all know to either go below him, or, if they are going to go above, not to do it too closely.

that makes it a useful maneuver for the 105: he didn't break any rules, he sent a competitor into a hole, and let everyone know they can't roll over him with impunity.


Or they figure he's a flamer and has one coming. It worked only because Scot didn't anticipate it, I would lay odds if it ever happened again the outcome would be different. I would also lay odds that while the Ed wouldn't go out of his way, if the opportunity presents he'll return the favor in some way. I have been on both sides of this, there is a difference in not being passive and being a suicide luffer avoiding rolls. Go up early, communicate your intentions, and force the faster boat to either roll with seperation, tack, or go below you.

#147 us7070

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:30 AM

sounds like it was right at the mark, so he didn't have the opportunity to go up early - which i agree is generally a good thing to do if you want to prevent getting rolled.

it sounds like he wanted to go right, and he was afraid that he'd either have to sit in bad air all the way over there, or do two extra tacks to clear his air - both of which are probably at least as slow as a quick luff.

#148 Editor

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:33 AM

Or they figure he's a flamer and has one coming. It worked only because Scot didn't anticipate it, I would lay odds if it ever happened again the outcome would be different. I would also lay odds that while the Ed wouldn't go out of his way, if the opportunity presents he'll return the favor in some way. I have been on both sides of this, there is a difference in not being passive and being a suicide luffer avoiding rolls. Go up early, communicate your intentions, and force the faster boat to either roll with seperation, tack, or go below you.


Absolutely right, I didn't anticipate it. Plus it really shouldn't have mattered anyway. So some clown luffs us up - we tack away, get up to speed, tack back and lose a couple boat lengths. It was the 30 boat lengths that fried my ass!

And speaking of long term, so now I know how guys like that sail. Don't think I won't look for a chance for a little payback. Maybe a nice facial next time the opportunity presents itself...

#149 movable ballast

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:35 AM

Absolutely right, I didn't anticipate it. Plus it really shouldn't have mattered anyway. So some clown luffs us up - we tack away, get up to speed, tack back and lose a couple boat lengths. It was the 30 boat lengths that fried my ass!

And speaking of long term, so now I know how guys like that sail. Don't think I won't look for a chance for a little payback. Maybe a nice facial next time the opportunity presents itself...


Forget it, move on, sail you rown race. you'll be faster. Nothing says fuck you like the trophy!

#150 WhereTodaySkip?

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:35 AM

Did ya get laid after nodding in agreement?


Sadly, no.

We were in section 1 with the boat ahead. We were vigorously rooting for the T-10 to take them to Michigan. I just thought it was a bad choice given the spread in Section 1 and how tight the front of the T-10 fleet was.

#151 Death Dealer

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:43 AM

Yes there was a rule broken - the rule of not being a prick. It was a chump move, but here's what really pissed me off - we tacked away, sailed into some light air, came back and had lost at least 30 boat lengths! We went on to crush them, but it still frosted my ass.

So you kicked his ass and still your complaining? Wow! welcome to life. Must have been a bitch holding that trophy? I think somebody needs a time out.

#152 Editor

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:59 AM

What can I say, I'm an inveterate complainer.

#153 walterbshaffer

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:02 AM

Wow, this is a pretty telling post. Have you ever heard the saying you don't win the race unless you win the respect of your competitors? You just dug yourself a pretty deep hole you'll need to get out of before you get anyones respect.

So your saying you identify yourself as the fleet hack so everyone stays out of your way. Then when you get into races with only 2 good sailors you'll be prepared to battle? Have you ever sailed in a fleet with more then 2 good sailors? How about one with 50 good sailors what do you do then? I'll give you a hint. If you aren't focused on clear lanes and where the next shift is coming from your going to be battling it out with one other boat for DFL.

If two boats cross on the course one is going the wrong way. If you slam tack or do a tight leebow on a boat all your doing is giving them the right side of the course because they don't have a choice but to do a hitch. If you want the right then do a loose cover where your allowing them to live while leveraging the correct side of the course. If you want the left tack early and in front, once again leveraging the correct side of the course and letting your comp follow you into a shift that will work for you.. Thats how you pass 10 boats and not 1.

Well, as Ronald Reagan would say, I guess I’m not the great communicator.

I could see how you could misread my post. I’ve never been called a hack before, but so be it. What I was trying to say was that if someone engages you, even if the engagement is unorthodox, don’t just call it a BS move and gripe about it. Engage them back and win the battle. Win a few of these and they won’t fool with you. Win a few against everybody and nobody will fool with you. Win all of them all the time and a 50 boat fleet is a likely win, even if they are all good sailors. That’s what I did, and where I ended up. No big deal, its just a matter of time on the water dealing with proximate situations.

As for the rest of your post, well, every situation is different and every race is constantly evolving. Discussing tactics as you attempted is like trying to answer the question of how do you win a game of chess: you can’t tell them because every game is different. But by engaging all opponents and getting real practice you’ll increase your chances of winning every game.

The downside of this is like being the fastest gun in the west: people will seek you out to test themselves against you, and that can be a real pain. (Maybe that guy was really paying Scooter a compliment?!!)

#154 Editor

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:03 AM

What's the matter ED, say something bad on air and find yourself with some "free time"?


I'm sure that day is coming, just not yet...

#155 Guest Anarchist MooseKnuckle_*

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:05 AM

So last week I was in a heated race in a couple of walker bay 10's. The coarse was from the dock, around Long Haul II(as sceen on an American Express commercial), around Shannon(our racing Tempest) and back to the dock. As we approched the Long Haul, I stuffed the other walker bay(sailor girl) into the Long Haul II's bow. It was one of the most talked about bull shit move of the season so far. I was deemed the winner at the dock but not without fake tempers flaring.
-Moose

#156 Saylrbouy

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:05 AM

Years ago, in another life, I was young, cocky, and owned a boat to match--Santana 30/30 GP. One night while racing against an old salt of the sea type wiley criminal defense attorney and his tub-of-plastic 1960s Cal 40 we were both approaching the port layline of the weather mark. Of course my 30/30 would point 10-15 degrees higher than his "Cow" 40. He was to weather as we both approached the layline. He waved for me to tack under him and get the advantage, knowing my "fast" boat would quickly dissappear downwind, leaving him unmolested to finish his drinks with friends.

Imagine my dismay when I tacked right precisely on the layline and expecting him to continue ont with port. BIG FUCKING MISTAKE. He immediately whips that big fucking "Cow" on top of me and squats on my wind. SHIT. For no other reason that to show me that he was much smarter and much more cunning than I.

As we failed to fetch the mark, all the other boats converged and witnessed me flounder helplessly in circles awaiting an opening while Mr Cow 40 scoots of to the finish line laughing with his friends....FUCK. We never did pass the prick that night.

To this day, 20 years later, he still owns the Cow 40, I've bought and sold at least a dozen boats since then, but I ALWAYS give that fuck all the room he wants around the weather mark. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, fuck me in the ass.

What's your story?

#157 mortified

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:11 AM

i was in a jack and jill race a few years back , on my j-24 with wife and newborn. on port tack at the start to head to the favored side.. this dick wad on a boat named pretender was coming on stbd tack as the start horn sounded, i bore off to duck the guy as rules suggest and the dick bore off as well, away from the line , i bore off more and he kept aiming at me on stbd, then asked me if that was the start horn, i replied yes , then he declared he was to protest me.
what a dick ! one of those times you want to jump on board and bitch slap the guy.
:angry:

#158 Turkey Slapper

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:13 AM

What can I say, I'm an inveterate complainer.



Well take your bitching some where else then! :lol:

#159 waterboy

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:38 AM

Forget it, move on, sail you rown race. you'll be faster. Nothing says fuck you like the trophy!


Amen. Best revenge, living well.

#160 confused seas

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:49 AM

What can I say, I'm an inveterate complainer.


Yes,
And I also believe that you are DoRag..enough said

#161 montey_burns

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:50 AM

Well, as Ronald Reagan would say, I guess I’m not the great communicator.

I could see how you could misread my post. I’ve never been called a hack before, but so be it. What I was trying to say was that if someone engages you, even if the engagement is unorthodox, don’t just call it a BS move and gripe about it. Engage them back and win the battle. Win a few of these and they won’t fool with you. Win a few against everybody and nobody will fool with you. Win all of them all the time and a 50 boat fleet is a likely win, even if they are all good sailors. That’s what I did, and where I ended up. No big deal, its just a matter of time on the water dealing with proximate situations.

As for the rest of your post, well, every situation is different and every race is constantly evolving. Discussing tactics as you attempted is like trying to answer the question of how do you win a game of chess: you can’t tell them because every game is different. But by engaging all opponents and getting real practice you’ll increase your chances of winning every game.

The downside of this is like being the fastest gun in the west: people will seek you out to test themselves against you, and that can be a real pain. (Maybe that guy was really paying Scooter a compliment?!!)


Apparently I was to detailed in my explination. Chess is a great example, if you protect and battle for every pawn your going to end up with a huge V on the board and the long range pieces will destroy you. Everyone talks about how it's different in the front of the fleet the difference is that 99% of the time, in good fleets, the focus is on your plan not the other boats. You leebow someone because you see a puff you want to lead to not because the opportunity presents itself. Your confident you have the speed and boat handeling so your just following your plan with the least amount of interaction with other boats as possible. Keep your eyes open change your plan as necessary. Don't focus on the rest of the fleet until you have a lead to protect.

#162 rule 54

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:56 AM

Is this the type of lame ass post and wasted space on the home page that we can expect this season now that Ed is racing again? I hope not.

#163 Brettmx

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 03:15 AM

Let's be honest here, Scot got his ass spanked by some dude in a J105- if not just for a little while. That guy was probably laughing his ass off as put the bow up.

Used J105 on SA---- $ 72,500 (price reduce)

Tiger F10, tricked out---- $75,000 (at least at one time)


Watching the Ed of said SA go into the 4th mode----PRICELESS!!!!!

#164 Town Drunk

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 04:04 AM

WOW! You lost 30 boat lengths and still got second? Why not just call up the PHRF Board and tell them how
fast the boat is? Oh wait a minute, you just did. Nice going ED. I guess when you get your rating knocked
you'll have something else to whine about.

#165 DoRag

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 05:50 AM

Yes,
And I also believe that you are DoRag..enough said


WTF?

Then who am I?

#166 Devoforedeckus

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:16 AM

I think the Ed has every right to call people out about their bullshit moves on the race course. These people have no real clue about why people race. They think it's all about winning races when in reality, it's all about, as Jeff Madragali puts it "extracting joy from your competitors". If you pull a bullshit move on a competitor and beat them, are you really extracting all of their joy? How about if you pull a sleazy move and they still beat you? Wouldn't you lose a maximun amount of joy knowing that nothing you could do could stop you from getting a whipping? I have been racing way longer than most. I have seen alot of people come and go. But when I give a competitor a more than even break (ie. not messing with their wind) and then I beat them fair and square, I know that I have extracted all the joy I possibly could from them. They have no excuse, I gave them a break and I still beat them. When someone messes with me and beats me with some bullshit moves, I give them no joy because I have an excuse, they are jerks.

#167 BaDaBing!

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:23 AM

"A gentleman never passes to windward" :P

#168 Editor

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 12:01 PM

WOW! You lost 30 boat lengths and still got second? Why not just call up the PHRF Board and tell them how
fast the boat is? Oh wait a minute, you just did. Nice going ED. I guess when you get your rating knocked
you'll have something else to whine about.


As I've already said a number of times that I don't give a fuck what PHRF does to the boat. In this race we beat them by less than a minute, in light air. We got those lengths back, at least in part, because we sailed pretty smart on the rest of that beat, but you wouldn't care much about that. In a breeze they would have smoked us, and as it is we already owe them 36 seconds per mile. Ask the other Tigers who have gotten crushed in PHRF how they feel about the rating....Seems about right to me.

#169 Big Show

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 01:51 PM

The Ed's right, it's a dick move. His only mistake is in not anticipating a dick
move. As this thread shows, there are a lot of dicks out there.
That is very much part of the game.

You nailed it.

#170 BigBoatHack

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:14 PM

My absolute least favorite post-race conversation is the one w/ the guy w/ the inflated ego who's pissed that some nobody is in front of him and, how dare he, he pulls some move which in his exalted opinion is lame. First of all, there are always two sides to a story and half the time (if not more) the "nobody" would be well within his rights to bitch about the other guy. More importantly, I have no interest in hearing it. Any "issue" is between the two boats. Bitching to others just breeds ill will and contempt. Get over it and yourself. My apologies if this has been stated elsewhere -- didn't bother to take the time to read more than a few posts.

#171 DoRag

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:27 PM

Get over it and yourself. My apologies if this has been stated elsewhere -- didn't bother to take the time to read more than a few posts.


And this from a Newbie!

I won't read about it but here's my opinion......

STFU and go over to Scuttlebutt. Leweck likes dipshits like you.

#172 DancingBear

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:41 PM

Lot of anger from you people today....


Considering it was your anger that started the thread, that comment was pretty damn funny. Believe it or not, I am not at all angry, not in the slightest, rather, I am thoroughly enjoying reading this thread and adding my 2 cents. I am not saying I would not have been angry if I were in your position on the race course, but I think I would have been angry with myself for letting someone put me in a position to lose 30 boatlengths, not angry at the guy that nailed the coffin shut after I made my mistake.

#173 surf nazi

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:50 PM

No, it was a dickhead move, but you are right that I should have been smarter, dove off, and not been at the mercy of the dick. Lesson learned.


Well said. While I flamed the Mr Ed on his original post in this thread ( but not bad enough to get the personal note ), I must compliment him on this "lesson learned " post. While he probably learned this lesson years ago, I guess he's like the rest of us and occasionally forgets. One thing I found very interesting about this thread was the number of people who have carried grudges about BS moves in meaningless phrf events from YEARS ago. People...get a freakin life. Let it go. Anytime I sail phrf ( psst, don't tell anyone ) I expect the other boats to do the most stupid things at the worst time and I'm rarely disappointed . The fun part of the game is to figure out well ahead of time what's going to happen and who's going to be where up the course and to position yourself to control the action . Failure to plan ( ahead ) is planning to fail.

#174 BigBoatHack

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 02:52 PM

Get over it and yourself. My apologies if this has been stated elsewhere -- didn't bother to take the time to read more than a few posts.
And this from a Newbie!

I won't read about it but here's my opinion......

STFU and go over to Scuttlebutt. Leweck likes dipshits like you.


F***ing brilliant. So do you disagree with my point -- that bitching serves no point? Oh yes the old newbie counterattack (it never gets old). I forgot that the opinions of people who have the time and the lack anything more meaningful to do than to post nearly two posts a day every day for 2.5 years make them the ultimate arbiters of all things big and small.

#175 Froth

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 03:20 PM

What can I say, I'm an inveterate complainer.


Dont always agree with the ED but in this case complaining is okay ..... yes there are moves that are 'legal' but are still bullshit. I see it all the time and there are no excuses for it except newbie sailors with no respect for actual sailing.

The race course (and it seems SA) is filled with folks who go for the lowest common denominator - fuck the other guy as much as possible - even if it slows you down and you lose to the other boats...

#176 Pete M

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 04:37 PM

Anytime I sail phrf ( psst, don't tell anyone ) I expect the other boats to do the most stupid things at the worst time and I'm rarely disappointed


quite right SN

#177 Delta Blues

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 05:22 PM

There are different approaches to everything.

Some look at the rules that they are designed for safety.
The next level looks at the rules that they provide tactics, and play the game at that level.

Some just want to cruise around the course and not expect someone to nail them tactically.
Some totally dig the tactical aspects of the rules and will use those rules to their advantage every time.

It sounds to me like it ended up a 2 boat race. One boat thought they had the right to sail a nice cruise around the course. The other boat understood that they would be rolled and used the rules to their advantage to defend their position going to the finish line.

It is a case of different strokes for different folks.

Should all racing be divided into two groups? One for the guys who want to cruise around the course, and the others who want to tactically take advantage of every nuance available?

#178 jo-mama

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 05:26 PM

"When you look back 30 or 35 years, do you think you were tactically too nice or too mean?

BM: Too nice. Since I felt pretty comfortable with my boatspeed, I never tacked on another boat. I always crossed ahead of him and then tacked where he had free air.

If you could do it all over, would you change that?

BM: Knowing what I do now, I think I’d be more aggressive tactically. If I liked the left side of the course, for example, whenever the other boat tried to go left I would lay down on him and hurt him and force him to tack. I never would have thought about that in 1950."

http://old.cruisingw...om/melgeint.htm

#179 Snapper

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 05:38 PM

Yeah, nothing says great sailor than luffing someone to the moon on a run. Looks like you and case have plenty in common. And it'll be pretty hard to go over you when we're already ahead.



I just had a flashback of the '85 Tempesta. Case closed.

#180 Sto Lat

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 05:58 PM

Question: Is putting the ed into a 30 bl hole, and causing a 100 reply thread whine about it:

a) a giggle
B) a big giggle
c) a really big giggle
or
d) all of the above?

#181 Call Me Boomvang

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 06:26 PM

You guys all miss the point.

The fact is that a J105 was ahead of the ED.

Now, that would piss anyone off.



Perhaps this is karma.

#182 Motorcycle

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:29 PM

Dude- If you read this you know it was you.


So... The 'Dude' in question did indeed read what I had to say about our Bullshit run in at this last weekends regatta. And he let me know in no uncertain terms what he thought about me airing our boat to boat issues out on the internet- and I have to agree that I was wrong for doing that- and I Am Sorry.

We may have trouble agreeing about the details of what happened, but I think we both agree that it would be far better setteled over a beer in the parking lot than allowed to fester.

The point I should have simply made in my origional post is that in the last race of a series there is a larger picture to keep in mind than where you are at that one moment. And, to not be a hypocrite, there is a larger picture to consider when you are talking about someone from your home town that you hope to be crossing tacks with for the next 30+ years! For my ill considered and late night rantings I am sorry Man.

And to possibly cap off this whole topic of conversation- I would have to say the most Bullshit move is to allow yourself to get so worked up about some race incident on the weekend that it carries over into Monday!

#183 #13

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:50 PM

There are times and ways to do that...and not do that.

I had a brush with a J-27 on my 40.7 a few years back, I posted out here about it at the time. The J-27 was racing non spinnaker, we were coming down on them very fast approaching the leeward mark. I had three choices...go under, go over, or go into their cockpit. However, we were getting close enough that if I went under, it was not clear that I would be able to get completely ahead of them though I would easily have an overlap before the 2 BL circle...as a result I would force them way out wide of the mark to keep outside me. However, it looked much more like if I heated it up a bit I could quickly roll them and get over and around them, leaving us both a nice rounding.

So, I opted to try to clear over them...we honestly thought that the few seconds of blanketing them would be less painful to them than having to round outside us.

However, the skipper of the J-27 (remember, Jib & main here, not in out class) decided there was NO WAY she was going to let me go over her, and she jammed me up, up, up until my kite collapsed because well, she could.

I shoudl have known better than to try and think like that and should have done what would have been better for me (power under). I should have known because this is a skipper that has in the past shown a clear ignorance of very basic rules (like we're on starboard going downwind and she's on port going upwind, and she refuses to give way, etc.) and tactics. Oh well...it's OK to be learning and to not be knowledgeable (though this skipper had been racin g much longer than me), but I don't think it's OK to be a fool about it when there is no tactical advantage to it. Taking someone up just because you can is not reason to do so; you never do any tactical maneuver just because you can.



Actually, my recommendation to all when they feel the best option is to be nice to another boat is to communicate to the other boat their intention- "J27, we will roll over you to weather so that you can have a clean rounding. We'll be gone in a flash" should have done the trick. Once stated, if they start to be jerks, one must always be prepared for that scenario. As I'm fond of calling it, "the inexperienced tactician trying their A-cup move to slow themselves down".
Frustrating only when one isn't anticipating someone else being "aggressively ignorant", let alone "aggressively ignorant and on the attack".
Ah, well, such is the game.
Live and learn from one's mistakes and miscalculations.
Cheers,
#13

#184 #13

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:52 PM

And to possibly cap off this whole topic of conversation- I would have to say the most Bullshit move is to allow yourself to get so worked up about some race incident on the weekend that it carries over into Monday!


Well said.
#13

#185 RumBulls

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:53 PM

Amen to that....






Its time for a RUMBULL!!!!....Drink on!

#186 USA-7

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:57 PM

Amen to that....
Its time for a RUMBULL!!!!....Drink on!

I just poured myself three fingers of Knob Creek. man, Im glad I havent bothered to post in this thread. oops... oh well, cheers.

#187 us7070

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 08:59 PM

Everyone seems to be assuming that the guy's luff was a net loss for him.

But, it's not necessarily the case that it was.

Assuming he wanted to go right, either he avoided a minimum of two tacks, and sailing on the un-favored tack in between those two tacks, or he avoided sailing in bad air while he headed right.

Did the luff cost more than that? I don't know, I wasn't there.

#188 GIULIETTA1

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:03 PM

Dude- If you read this you know it was you.
So... The 'Dude' in question did indeed read what I had to say about our Bullshit run in at this last weekends regatta. And he let me know in no uncertain terms what he thought about me airing our boat to boat issues out on the internet- and I have to agree that I was wrong for doing that- and I Am Sorry.

We may have trouble agreeing about the details of what happened, but I think we both agree that it would be far better setteled over a beer in the parking lot than allowed to fester.

The point I should have simply made in my origional post is that in the last race of a series there is a larger picture to keep in mind than where you are at that one moment. And, to not be a hypocrite, there is a larger picture to consider when you are talking about someone from your home town that you hope to be crossing tacks with for the next 30+ years! For my ill considered and late night rantings I am sorry Man.

And to possibly cap off this whole topic of conversation- I would have to say the most Bullshit move is to allow yourself to get so worked up about some race incident on the weekend that it carries over into Monday!

Wow, an honest apology on SA. You just raised my attitude of both this forum and you as an person. Good job.

#189 The Commodork

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:03 PM

he's in San Diego, he's an ass, and hopefully today he has a toothache and just stubbed his toe. fuck him.


Whazzamatta??? Did the "ass" kick you around the Schock fleet for too many years? Bitter, dude, way fuckin bitter.

#190 The Commodork

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:16 PM

I just had a flashback of the '85 Tempesta. Case closed.


Bingo!!!

#191 aA

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:25 PM

Wow, an honest apology on SA. You just raised my attitude of both this forum and you as an person. Good job.


seriously. a class response from the man...

#192 MainTrim

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:36 PM

Somewhere in So-Cal there's a J/105 skipper reading this with a smile on his face, knowing he got just the reaction he hoped for.


My thoughts exactly.....

Could it have been Nelson?!!!

#193 chaosmaster

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:52 PM

If it was the latter, a bunch of us wouldn't be getting these lovely hate-o-grams in our message boxes.


Hate-o-gram? Is that like getting shit from Teaky's desk?

I want one!!!!

Ed, take some Midol and a cup of Chamomile tea. It'll help with the cramps then you won't be so bitchy and whiney.


Do I get one now? Do I? Huh? Do I?

#194 moorphined

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 09:56 PM

Wow, an honest apology on SA. You just raised my attitude of both this forum and you as an person. Good job.

Huh, perhaps the Ed could read this and learn a thing or two about accepting responsibility for ones actions.

And seeing as how I'm on the topic I should apologize for the response that I deleted to Motorcycles post. No more posts after midnight unless they contain porn sounds like a reasonable new personal rule.

#195 This Is My Alternate Identity

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 10:30 PM

Huh, perhaps the Ed could read this and learn a thing or two about accepting responsibility for ones actions.


I don't believe that I've ever seen Scot step back from a position he's taken publicly. Doesn't matter if he's right or wrong, the boy stands his ground as tenaciously as a pit bull tearing a toddler apart.

#196 Bus Driver

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 10:50 PM

I don't believe that I've ever seen Scot step back from a position he's taken publicly. Doesn't matter if he's right or wrong, the boy stands his ground as tenaciously as a pit bull tearing a toddler apart.


Take it to PA.

(sorry, just reread your post - thought you were talking about Dubya)

Drive on.

#197 moorphined

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Posted 26 April 2007 - 10:51 PM

I don't believe that I've ever seen Scot step back from a position he's taken publicly. Doesn't matter if he's right or wrong, the boy stands his ground as tenaciously as a pit bull tearing a toddler apart.


Never one to let the truth stand in the way of a good argument huh. At least he doesn't sail one design so I won't have to worry about sailing in the same fleet as him.

#198 baggywrinle

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 02:27 AM

From the front page....
Question of the Week
The first bullshit move was the one you made.
And you got ruled by a 105...
:lol:
Bullshit Moves

I've always been a guy who does not like bullshit moves, either on the race course, in the protest room or anywhere else around this sport. I like to sail clean, avoid trouble and almost never start it, unless it is completely necessary.

While racing our Flying Tiger last weekend, we were rounding the only leeward mark in the 9 mile SDYC Opening Day Race. It was a pursuit start and we had passed all the boats except a J/105 that rounded directly in front of us. We stuck our bow up a bit after we rounded to try get a bit of a lane, but like almost any situation like that, there is really no opportunity to do much. But instead of just sailing away, or even in a slight pinch mode, the 105 stuck it up, parking them and us. I looked to leeward and instead of the helmsman steering a tiller boat the way you are supposed to, he was standing up, tiller in the air and just looking at us as he luffed us. So lame. I yelled something like "How about you just sail your boat and not fixate on us", but it had zero effect.

It was stupid, and in my mind, while not particularly egregious, a classic example of a bullshit move. He slowed to a crawl with one goal only - fuck us. We couldn't have gone over him, and had he had the boat in normal upwind mode, would have sailed away and then could have pinched us off later if he wanted. But no, he pulls this move right after the mark, forced us to tack and it pissed me off.

So the question of the week is, can you tell us about a bullshit move that has been pulled on you? Or maybe you've pulled one on someone else? Bring it! Oh yeah, and have fun.
04/25/07



#199 baggywrinle

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 02:29 AM

You've obviously been sailing keel boats for too long. Next time try the patented,” DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHO I AM" hail.



Someone knows who he is? He seems to have forgotten his name!

#200 oneguyfromdetroit

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 04:02 AM

Detroit NOOD some years ago, approaching DW finish on port, sailing fairly deep, and pissed off at everybody (when I should've been pissed off at myself) for sailing us from 1st to 4th. Two boats from another class converging, on port, overlapped, to leeward, sailing hotter angle than us. I could've sailed deeper and gone behind them, and probably not lost a position in my class. Instead, threw in a jibe, (putting us on starboard, which forced the leward of the 2 boats to jibe away, losing his controlling position approaching his finish, (the windward of the two boats wa able to cross us cleanly, and went on to win). Total dick move on my part, and I can't even say why I did it. I did hunt the guy down afterward, apologized profusely, bought beers, and I think I even told him he could punch me in the face if it'd make him feel better. Learned important lesson that day, fuck with people when it's part of a sound racing strategy, but never just because you can. Never done anything like that since.




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