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Bullshit Moves


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#201 CFIT

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 01:57 PM

Detroit NOOD some years ago, approaching DW finish on port, sailing fairly deep, and pissed off at everybody (when I should've been pissed off at myself) for sailing us from 1st to 4th. Two boats from another class converging, on port, overlapped, to leeward, sailing hotter angle than us. I could've sailed deeper and gone behind them, and probably not lost a position in my class. Instead, threw in a jibe, (putting us on starboard, which forced the leward of the 2 boats to jibe away, losing his controlling position approaching his finish, (the windward of the two boats wa able to cross us cleanly, and went on to win). Total dick move on my part, and I can't even say why I did it. I did hunt the guy down afterward, apologized profusely, bought beers, and I think I even told him he could punch me in the face if it'd make him feel better. Learned important lesson that day, fuck with people when it's part of a sound racing strategy, but never just because you can. Never done anything like that since.


Yes you were an ass but in this case the guy was racing the "Ed" so it was a good move, perhaps done with limited style but still a good move

#202 thirstyman

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 03:07 PM

Bullshit. He could not have under any circumstances known that we would lose 30 boat lengths in just a few short minutes. He didn't "school" me - he sailed like a jackass and we ended up getting fucked from it.


the ego-protecting self-denial shield is up! sounds like you got flicked to light air. stop being a cry baby about it.

#203 thirstyman

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 03:39 PM

You've obviously been sailing keel boats for too long. Next time try the patented,” DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHO I AM" hail.


now that is funny.

#204 Junkyard Dog

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 08:02 PM

Come on people. this thread is about bullshit moves. We've all made them, and we've had them pulled on us.

Let's wuit bitching at the Ed and tell our stories. Here's another one of mine.

Years ago I was calling tactics on big, heavy 43 cruising boat. We were racing around fixed marks in the bay, and with the wind direction, the course had to have starboard roundings.

I've always hated starboard roundings.

So there we are, leading our class out to the weather mark. One of my best friends is calling the shots on another monstrously heavy 43 footer. They are behind us and inside, not laying the mark as we approach. About 200 yards out, we get a huge lift. The other boat is laying the mark and we are now overstanding.

"Don't worry," I telll my skipper. "XXX will tack right at the mark. There is nothing to be gained by standing on. If we tack two boatlengths beyond the mark, we'll be OK."

I know, I know. Stupid, but I was so sure.

We sail past the the two boatlength circle and tack on to port. As soon as we are around, I see that the crew of the other boat is still on the rail and they have no intention of tacking. It is way to late to tack back, and thank God that my skipper kept turning the wheel. Over 40,000 pounds of fiberglass converge at a combined rate of over 10 knots and pass raill to rail going opposite directions with literally less than an inch to spare.

We laugh about it now, but we were very lucky no body got hurt.

I clearly made a mistake, but like the 105 in the Eds example, they gained nothing by fucking with us. Had they tacked at the mark, we'd have been over them in flash leaving them plenty of clean air. By standing on as the did, they were sailing away form the next mark. Yes, they could have eventually put up a chute and carried it down to the next mark, but they would have had to go out 1/4 of a mile for that to be worth while. As it was, we had to tack twice to get back to and around the mark, but we were easily able to catch them by the next mark, set our chute and flat outran them on the way home.

Moral of the story for me: Don't count your chickens before they hatch, or never, ever assume anything.

Moral of the story for him: Never get so busy considering that you can do something that you forget to ask if you should.

I guess of course the real bullshit move would have been for him to tack inside of us and then throw the flag.

#205 Junkyard Dog

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 08:27 PM

Which reminds me of another time, long, long ago when the world was young and there was such a thing as mast-abeam.

I was sailing a Ranger 22 on an inland lake. I was on port in about 3 knots of air. Some boats are drifting, some of us lucky ones just getting along. There is a standing rule that if no boat gets around the weather mark in 45 minutes, the race is abandoned. There is only about 5 minutes left, and only two of us have a chance to make the mark within the time limit.

There's a guy in a Holder 20 on starboard. I am clearly crossing him by a couple of lengths. He owes me a bundle of time, and has been trying to get the Ranger's handicap changed for years. There are several on the lake, so no chance, but he keeps trying.

Yes, PHRF sucks.

Anyway, he has been screaming starboard at me for what seems like 5 minutes. I tell him to hold his course. I mean, I am over 50 feet in front of him, my beam to his bow, and there is barely 3 knots of breeze. I'd had to luff head to wind for him to be able to hit me.

Anyway, he tacks and throws his flag.

WTF?

We're way up the course, and out on the left where there is wind. The rest of the class is parked in a huge hole on the right, so no witnesses. I curse, but do my circles anyway. I've never liked going to the room, and in this situation is was his word against mine and he was on starboard. If you sat the protest, what would you do?

He is about 10 feet from the mark when the committee abandons the race.

Now then, by taking me out, he kept the race from continuing. This caused there to be no throw out in the series, and he ended up placing fourth. Had I made the mark, he would have gotten no less than second, and might have won that race. In either scenario, he would have finished third, and probably second for the series.

Take that mother fucker! No yard-dart for you!

#206 chaosmaster

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 09:39 PM

OK. Here's one I'm not overly proud of...

Sailing to the finish about 3 BL away from closest competitor. Both pretty dead downwind on port and neither one of us has to do anything but finish the race. Its a toss-up on who will cross the line first. I figure that, even with the wind up, a gybe is no problem for us but, knowing his crew was a little weaker, they might have a little trouble.

We grease the gybe and the other skipper is looking at me with a pretty big "Oh FUCK!" expression on his face. We don't go at him but the boats start to converge... not much further to go... getting closer... "Um, starboard" (very politely, of course)... he digs a little deeper... sails a little by the lee... and then the cluster fuck of a gybe... and we win easily.

No rules were broken, although my skipper suggested that he could have made an argument for gybing too close. Part of the reason that we did not sail right at him after the gybe but he had plenty of time before it got close... maybe 20-30 seconds. Still, the logic behind the decision was shitty and I apologized at the dock and bought a couple of rounds.

#207 Eventually

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Posted 27 April 2007 - 11:50 PM

Come on people. this thread is about bullshit moves. We've all made them, and we've had them pulled on us.

Let's wuit bitching at the Ed and tell our stories. Here's another one of mine.

Years ago I was calling tactics on big, heavy 43 cruising boat. We were racing around fixed marks in the bay, and with the wind direction, the course had to have starboard roundings.

I've always hated starboard roundings.

So there we are, leading our class out to the weather mark. One of my best friends is calling the shots on another monstrously heavy 43 footer. They are behind us and inside, not laying the mark as we approach. About 200 yards out, we get a huge lift. The other boat is laying the mark and we are now overstanding.

"Don't worry," I telll my skipper. "XXX will tack right at the mark. There is nothing to be gained by standing on. If we tack two boatlengths beyond the mark, we'll be OK."

I know, I know. Stupid, but I was so sure.

We sail past the the two boatlength circle and tack on to port. As soon as we are around, I see that the crew of the other boat is still on the rail and they have no intention of tacking. It is way to late to tack back, and thank God that my skipper kept turning the wheel. Over 40,000 pounds of fiberglass converge at a combined rate of over 10 knots and pass raill to rail going opposite directions with literally less than an inch to spare.

We laugh about it now, but we were very lucky no body got hurt.

I clearly made a mistake, but like the 105 in the Eds example, they gained nothing by fucking with us. Had they tacked at the mark, we'd have been over them in flash leaving them plenty of clean air. By standing on as the did, they were sailing away form the next mark. Yes, they could have eventually put up a chute and carried it down to the next mark, but they would have had to go out 1/4 of a mile for that to be worth while. As it was, we had to tack twice to get back to and around the mark, but we were easily able to catch them by the next mark, set our chute and flat outran them on the way home.

Moral of the story for me: Don't count your chickens before they hatch, or never, ever assume anything.

Moral of the story for him: Never get so busy considering that you can do something that you forget to ask if you should.

I guess of course the real bullshit move would have been for him to tack inside of us and then throw the flag.


They were behind and inside...you are in an overlay and they are laying???
Were they close enough to have an overlap? If they were...what were you thinking trying to tack?
Do you and they not know what proper course is? If not perhaps a glance at the rules may prevent such a close call??

Probably just my comprehension skills or the way you have told this but something makes no sense with this story.

#208 spotter

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 05:43 PM

This is a common mistake made and it doesn't happen only at a leeward mark. It happens all too frequently off the starting line. Your competitor forgets that speed kills and also equates to height (pointing ability). He would have been much better off getting up to full speed, which he could have clearly done faster than you and letting the fins give him the height to force you away.

I see the same thing happen off the starting line when boats will pinch while two or three knots downspeed. Once they are up to full speed the fins work better and they will gain even more. Hard to do if there is a boat below you but a big winner when you have a hole.

Finally, skippers should remember it is a Fleet Race and unless you are battling for first, get yourself around the course as fast as possible! The results follow.


From the front page....
Question of the Week

Bullshit Moves

I've always been a guy who does not like bullshit moves, either on the race course, in the protest room or anywhere else around this sport. I like to sail clean, avoid trouble and almost never start it, unless it is completely necessary.

While racing our Flying Tiger last weekend, we were rounding the only leeward mark in the 9 mile SDYC Opening Day Race. It was a pursuit start and we had passed all the boats except a J/105 that rounded directly in front of us. We stuck our bow up a bit after we rounded to try get a bit of a lane, but like almost any situation like that, there is really no opportunity to do much. But instead of just sailing away, or even in a slight pinch mode, the 105 stuck it up, parking them and us. I looked to leeward and instead of the helmsman steering a tiller boat the way you are supposed to, he was standing up, tiller in the air and just looking at us as he luffed us. So lame. I yelled something like "How about you just sail your boat and not fixate on us", but it had zero effect.

It was stupid, and in my mind, while not particularly egregious, a classic example of a bullshit move. He slowed to a crawl with one goal only - fuck us. We couldn't have gone over him, and had he had the boat in normal upwind mode, would have sailed away and then could have pinched us off later if he wanted. But no, he pulls this move right after the mark, forced us to tack and it pissed me off.

So the question of the week is, can you tell us about a bullshit move that has been pulled on you? Or maybe you've pulled one on someone else? Bring it! Oh yeah, and have fun.
04/25/07



#209 spotter

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Posted 28 April 2007 - 05:54 PM

They were behind and inside...you are in an overlay and they are laying???
Were they close enough to have an overlap? If they were...what were you thinking trying to tack?
Do you and they not know what proper course is? If not perhaps a glance at the rules may prevent such a close call??

Probably just my comprehension skills or the way you have told this but something makes no sense with this story.



#210 Goalscorer

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Posted 29 April 2007 - 01:06 PM

Take it to PA.

(sorry, just reread your post - thought you were talking about Dubya)

Drive on.



So... Did we work out if Editor is a genuine whining pussy or merely simulating the persona as an arch, knowing, postmodern ironic "fishing trip" to attract streams of invective? I have read every single post* and I still cannot work it out.


*NB This may not be true.

#211 chaosmaster

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 04:26 PM

Whining pussy... but aside from that, back to the original question..."can you tell us about a bullshit move that has been pulled on you? Or maybe you've pulled one on someone else?"

I can't believe that with all the racing history on this site, there are not more stories of bullshit moves that have been pulled? WHADDUP? You ashamed to admit or just trying to forget?

Let's hear them!

Chaos

#212 Cable-Layer

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 09:00 PM

Note to editor... "turn in your man card today"


Funny....


I say you got schooled. Live and learn.

#213 USA-7

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Posted 03 May 2007 - 09:10 PM

Funny....
I say you got schooled. Live and learn.

dude, <whispers --> this thread has j.-t.-s.

#214 JimmyD

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Posted 05 May 2007 - 06:03 AM

Our “close encounter” with a DickHead happened just last week at the start of the Ensenada drift…light/moderate winds…we’re about 5 boat lengths from the middle of the line and DH is to windward on a Cat 30 Tall Rig that may have been named after a perfume…DH misjudged the start and this one-trick pony has to try to push down because he was neither smart enough or talented enough to throw a tack, even though there was no boat within 6 lengths above him…DH pushes down and we politely call him up…DH calls his helm is over…and this was the first time any of us ever saw a helm over when the tiller was at centerline…must be a deferred maintenance issue…anyways…we continue to politely call him up and DH again replies that his helm is over and this time it was…only it was now above centerline which of course brought him even further down on us…meanwhile his crew was doing a fairly good job of trimming because his genny was outside his lifelines as he kept his speed…this goes on for the next 30 seconds and the calls for him to come up become a tad more heated with the occasional suggestion that we just hit his ass…DH still refuses to come up, much less over (there’s still no one above him)…we call foul and he then claimed he had insufficient way to come up…in the old days this was “barging” and had we been on a boat with a less sporting driver he would have been “tapped” out…probably fairly hard on the water and even harder on the dock…but no, now we have this really stupid rule that says we’re supposed to avoid collision even if there is a DH refusing to come up…ANYWAYS…this goes on until the gun…at times we’re less than 6” apart and our driver is still following that damn no collision rule…gun goes off and DH grins and finally puts his helm down to come on to the wind and his crew sheets in.

At this point he had, of course, successfully slimed us because we played by the rules and avoided collision… a really nice start to a long race was messed up not by superior sailing, but by a low-life flea-bag DHed asshole…only recourse we had was to call protest and fly the flag…as he sailed away in clear air and opened the door for another boat which had come from below and behind to get on top of us because of him refusing to come up...and then it became crystal clear as to why this happened…when we threw the flag the sycophant on either the fore/mid deck got really excited...almost sexually...quit making sandwiches and serving drinks, and started pointing at the driver while yelling that “Oh…you guys don’t want to go into the protest room with him…you’ll lose…because he’s an All American.” Well, he definitely proved he was an “All American”…your call as to what category.

We broke the drift off at Dago and turned the boat around to head back, so the protest was not filed. To top it off DH and crew stay out until after 10:00 a.m. on Sunday morning and trophy by attrition…oh well, he probably didn’t have a woman waiting for him in any port, and given the way the sycophant on the fore/mid deck was fawning over him he probably had a better chance of getting lucky out there. Hope he enjoys the trophy.

JimmyD

#215 OneFifty

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Posted 07 May 2007 - 08:40 PM

We broke the drift off at Dago and turned the boat around to head back, so the protest was not filed. To top it off DH and crew stay out until after 10:00 a.m. on Sunday morning and trophy by attrition…oh well, he probably didn’t have a woman waiting for him in any port, and given the way the sycophant on the fore/mid deck was fawning over him he probably had a better chance of getting lucky out there. Hope he enjoys the trophy.

Sounds like some kind of Obsession.

#216 hawkeye

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 05:41 PM

Sounds like some kind of Obsession.

Does Obsession have a reputation?

#217 OneFifty

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 05:58 PM

Does Obsession have a reputation?

I don't know. I just took a shot at the boat name based on his clues and the results.

#218 o69u812

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Posted 10 May 2007 - 08:53 PM

I don't know. I just took a shot at the boat name based on his clues and the results.



This one > Obsession Cat30T 67852 SBYRC

#219 steveromagnino

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 04:17 AM

Great obsession story. For the benefit of non Americans, what exactly is an 'All American' and why should this matter?

Is it something to do with football or some such thing?

#220 Cable-Layer

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Posted 11 May 2007 - 05:08 PM

Great obsession story. For the benefit of non Americans, what exactly is an 'All American' and why should this matter?

Is it something to do with football or some such thing?


Like an All-Star. Typically it is used in the collegiate ranks to signify the elite.

#221 LeftSA

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 09:45 PM

Two words: Morning Glory

#222 Weyalan

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Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:01 PM

One word:

HUH?



Read the thread about Morning Glory / Loki...

The former camped on the latter (i.e. 86 footer camping ona 60 footer) all the way round the course in order to win the regatta... legal, but maxes out the asshatometer




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