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FASTNET SUPERMEN


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#1 Marine Blast

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 07:59 AM

Thought this was worth a new topic as I think it is truely incrediable that they are still out there, battling it out on their way home. Whilst it's all the big super maxi's and Open 60's that are getting the headlines, I think what these boys have done is simply pure magic and outstanding, who would have thought that two J105's would still be out there with Alfa Romeo jacking it in because of the weather (not that there is anything wrong with that) but what a life changing experience it must be for them both, two J105's VOADOR and JUNEAU. Fuckin supermen? story and alot of praise here

#2 Omer

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 09:42 AM

Yes.I totally agree. There is nothing to say to that.
But i also think, in an open sea, where wave period gets large enough, larger
boats may get a worse beating by slamming into the next wave or dropping off of
a wave, whereas a smaller boat may find it easier to ride over and around them.
Bigger is not always better when the going gets tough.

#3 amperrin

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 11:18 AM

I agree with both your posts.

When I was 19 I raced doublehanded round britain and ireland on a 34 footer called QII she was custom built for singlehanding. One of the original water ballasted boats. That race was the hardest thing I have done almost 50,000 miles of racing later. The start was in Plymouth and it was similar conditions to what we were seeing in Fastnet this year except that it was a dead beat to lands end and then a reach to cork. By the time we had reached Cork 32 of the 57 boats that started the race had retired. With stop overs the race took us 21 days mostly beating close into shore. I am not writing this all to show off only to tell you where I am coming from on all this!

Two years ago I delivered a J105 down the coast from st petersburg to key west and the wind got up to 25 knots and it was again a dead beat. By the time we took shelter the sky was the blackest I had ever seen it and with bare poles we were heeling over a good amount it was gusting in the low 40's. J105's aren't that bad if you seal the front hatch with rope and tape and you seal the pole really well. The furling headsail is a bonus as you don't have to choose between sails and don't have to go up on the pointy end.

This year I was on Yeoman XXXII the boat I have looked after for the last 6 months. Last year I had the honor of doing bow on a Z86 but not in any major seaway or wind so I can't tell you how it would have dealt with the conditions we had this year. Although Alfa Romeo is a lot larger than Yeoman she is also carbon and has a similar hull shape/design ethos. Both boats are extremly fast boats for their size. The problem with these type of boats in comparison to a J105 or the 34 footer I took round 10 years ago is that you have to slow them down so as not to fly off waves. IF you don't slow them they pound heavily. The pounding will kill the boat very quickly creating structural issues especially as carbon doesn't give like fiberglass does. So what I am saying is that the way you sail the two boats is very different and that the Omer is correct in that the sea conditions can favour small boats over the larger boats.

I have a lot of respect for the J105 still out there and wish we had been able to enjoy the ride back from the rock but I think the same respect should be given to all the crews who finished the race and kept their boats together. I will say I do understand the frustration of being a small boat not getting the same press as the big guys and being 'forgotten' about.

All that being said I think the J105 guys are hardcore nutters and deserve quite a few beers for their efforts.

Edited by amperrin, 16 August 2007 - 11:22 AM.


#4 Thiepval

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:27 PM

So this started off as a "God we're amazed that the 105's are out there, 2 handed, sailing their socks off... aint they great" and in 2 replies it turns into "the ashley perrin self promotional website"

THREAD HIJACK or what????

#5 Terrafirma

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:35 PM

Anyone who puts their hand up to do the fastnet or the hobart etc etc no matter the boat, young or old deserves a big rap, there are plenty of supermen out there..! The real supermen are the solo 60's sailors and the Volvo ocean guys, there out there.

#6 dogwatch

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 12:55 PM

THREAD HIJACK or what????


Personally I thought it was interesting, well-written and relevant.

#7 BeerDidClam

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 01:21 PM

Personally I thought it was interesting, well-written and relevant.


I give it 93. Nicely composed and easy to dance to.

#8 Thiepval

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 04:51 PM

Personally I thought it was interesting, well-written and relevant.


Yes, it was. I was venting my work stress in SA, which is never a sensible thing to do.

My bad.

#9 BeerDidClam

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 05:14 PM

Yes, it was. I was venting my work stress in SA, which is never a sensible thing to do.

My bad.


no worries.
i plan to have ten beers and a bunch of stoli shots and get back on
later tonight to bitch about PHRF. Oh, and people I hate in my club.

#10 Thiepval

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Posted 16 August 2007 - 05:51 PM

no worries.
i plan to have ten beers and a bunch of stoli shots and get back on
later tonight to bitch about PHRF. Oh, and people I hate in my club.


Dam fine idea. Beer o'clock.

#11 the cat

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:17 AM

Hmm. How very interesting.

Lot of expensive boats went home. Lot of boats that had a clue about sailing in bumpy stuff will finish.

I guess i am with Thiepval.

Wish had found a boat at the start of the season and not had to tell the skippers that rang on saturday no.

#12 Terrorvision

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 01:04 AM

As ever, the real supermen are the folks from the RNLI.

#13 MonkeyNuts

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 05:02 AM

i hate the way the whole thing was blown out of proportion,

the guys on double handed did a great job to get around the course, but at the end of the day i would hardly call 35 kts extreme.

alot of the media blew it out of proportion due to the delay and the media guys calls about it being so bad.
at the end of the day it was a good race with alot of sail changes but with a forecast that never materialised

the media dropped out whenever stuff started to get heavy but for those still left in there, it was not bad at all, but the media guys that had to drop out made it sound alot worse than it actually was just so their dropping out sounded alot more plausible

on the dock there was alot of cruiser boats that had rolling reefing and stuff like that,which in my opinion should not be allowed to do the race, you can not depend on a furler to hold a reef.

seems a bit ridiculous that such a huge percentage of boats dropped out ......



PS. the Yeomen post that came from the first page didnt sound too correct........... look at the race tracker and you can see who was infront when they dropped out, but who am i to let lies get in the way of a good story ????

Edited by MonkeyNuts, 17 August 2007 - 05:29 AM.


#14 dogwatch

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 05:54 AM

seems a bit ridiculous that such a huge percentage of boats dropped out ......


So you completed the race, did you? Tell us all about it then.

#15 MonkeyNuts

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 06:03 AM

i just did ....

#16 JenBee

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 09:36 AM

Is Racing Ron on Juneau? I may be completely wrong, but it rings a bell.

#17 keel bolt

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 10:05 AM

Being a newbi this seams a bit feable but having been on a J105 for the fastnet (5 crew) all i can say is that vodore and janeau deserve all the praise I can offer. Having retired twelve miles east of Plymouth due to gear and crew failure. The thought of a beat out to the rock was not one we looked forward to with the forecast however the sleigh ride home would have been fun. Having just returned from Plymouth last night I can not do what I want which is to shake their hands and buy them all the beer in Devon.

#18 dogwatch

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 10:37 AM

There are several boats still heading for the Rock. True Grit or a pointless exercise in masochism - I can't quite decide.

#19 JuvenileD

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 11:58 AM

Being a newbi this seams a bit feable but having been on a J105 for the fastnet (5 crew) all i can say is that vodore and janeau deserve all the praise I can offer. Having retired twelve miles east of Plymouth due to gear and crew failure. The thought of a beat out to the rock was not one we looked forward to with the forecast however the sleigh ride home would have been fun. Having just returned from Plymouth last night I can not do what I want which is to shake their hands and buy them all the beer in Devon.


Gotcha... Keelbolt I shall buy you and the rest of the SYC Fastnutters a beer at the club on Sunday.

Juvenile D

#20 bowbird

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:24 PM

i hate the way the whole thing was blown out of proportion,

the guys on double handed did a great job to get around the course, but at the end of the day i would hardly call 35 kts extreme.

alot of the media blew it out of proportion due to the delay and the media guys calls about it being so bad.
at the end of the day it was a good race with alot of sail changes but with a forecast that never materialised

the media dropped out whenever stuff started to get heavy but for those still left in there, it was not bad at all, but the media guys that had to drop out made it sound alot worse than it actually was just so their dropping out sounded alot more plausible

on the dock there was alot of cruiser boats that had rolling reefing and stuff like that,which in my opinion should not be allowed to do the race, you can not depend on a furler to hold a reef.

seems a bit ridiculous that such a huge percentage of boats dropped out ......
PS. the Yeomen post that came from the first page didnt sound too correct........... look at the race tracker and you can see who was infront when they dropped out, but who am i to let lies get in the way of a good story ????


From this bollocks, you were quite clearly not out there.
The wind strength was not the problem - fairly regularly sail in that round the cans during winter, however the sea state was a different matter.
The media guys are not meant - or expected to be yachties. Our perception of bad is not automatically the same as theirs. Hopefully it will teach them some respect (fat chance).

Good on you, Racing Ron, etc. Beers flowing when you're home.

#21 LeftSA

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 12:27 PM

As ever, the real supermen are the folks from the RNLI.


I second that. Pretty much the only charity that I always empty my pockets for if I see a collector.

Much kudos to all the boats still out there. It takes a special kind of person to still be heading out to the rock - I guess you have to be there to know if you'd still be heading out.

#22 keel bolt

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 02:10 PM

Gotcha... Keelbolt I shall buy you and the rest of the SYC Fastnutters a beer at the club on Sunday.

Juvenile D



Bu**er you caught me. A pint of 1664 please!!

#23 cois cuin

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 02:46 PM

Bu**er you caught me. A pint of 1664 please!!



Just a thought ( I was not there so I have no proof of actual conditions ) but I cant help wondering whether the hype about the weather made people retire before they may have actually needed to because the media put the "fear of god" into them.

If you think about anything for too long, you'll convince yourself that it is too dangerous to leave your house at all..let alone set foot on a boat!

Congratulations to Ger and his crew on Chieftain. They sailed a great race ...........and a very clever and prudent one if you look at there track on the OCVISION thing.

On that note, well done to all who competed and are home safe! :)

#24 keel bolt

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 03:26 PM

total agree the hype was worst than the race, or not in my case. the media saying the race should be pulled is crap it must be the decission of the competitors not of the PRO. All the boats had quallified and are as safe as can, reasonable, be expected. in the majority of cases the crew gave up not the boat. Roll on 2009!!

#25 jekyll

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 03:28 PM

The postponement prepared people to think about their capabilities in bad weather much more carefully. An astonishing amount of work seemed to be being done on the boats in Cowes during that 'extra' 24 hrs - the chandleries loved it - but it just shows how unprepared some boats must have been.

Not many dropped out before the start. It is perhaps surprising how many did in the early hours of Tues morning.

The weather forecast of 8-9 was a factor as there was a mass exodus to Plymouth after that was announced - and the wind was sustaining 40 kts with building uncomfortable seas. It was also dark with driving rain poor visibility, and generally unpleasant.

The prospect then of the wind swinging into the NW so that it would be a beat all the way to the rock with a confused sea also came seriously into the equation. Most could have seen out the initial storm - but to go on like that for 2-3 more days was a grimmer prospect.

Other factors were wet seassick crews and various types of gear failure. A lot of those failures were fairly minor but an indication that if worse was to come what else might fail. (see associated thread re mainsails)

Finally the decision was easier when the fleet had somewhere to go. If they had been beyond the point of easy bail out many probably would have stuck it out - but highly likely there would have been some major casualties/deaths

#26 GosZ

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 03:55 PM

Finally the decision was easier when the fleet had somewhere to go. If they had been beyond the point of easy bail out many probably would have stuck it out - but highly likely there would have been some major casualties/deaths


How do you figure that? The worst conditions seemed to be on Tuesday morning. Most boats were still on the water then, all be it heading in. Deaths my arse.

Hey Clean .. how about swapping those gorillas on the front page for Chieftain - the race winner?

#27 Tim

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 04:05 PM

Voador and Juneau are hard as nails and great sailors. Nice one boys. You got balls. I like balls.

Bad luck with the rig for Andy on Jambalaya.

See most of you in the West Country shortly.

Tim

#28 dogwatch

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 06:44 PM

but I cant help wondering whether the hype about the weather made people retire before they may have actually needed to because the media put the "fear of god" into them.


Media? Do you think they were out there watching the TV? If people were that spooked by the media, how come only 30 boats chose not to start? However the Tuesday morning forecast of a NW gale definitely made the decision for some people.

There is a lot of hand-wringing here but really we should be pretty pleased that there were no boats or lives lost and the indications are that people made realistic decisions in line with their capabilities. Apart from a relatively small number of pros, people are after all doing it for fun, not to be battered and terrified.

#29 faijai

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 07:01 PM

Media? Do you think they were out there watching the TV? If people were that spooked by the media, how come only 30 boats chose not to start? However the Tuesday morning forecast of a NW gale definitely made the decision for some people.

There is a lot of hand-wringing here but really we should be pretty pleased that there were no boats or lives lost and the indications are that people made realistic decisions in line with their capabilities. Apart from a relatively small number of pros, people are after all doing it for fun, not to be battered and terrified.



Yes I agree . We retired very early. Newbe crew didn't like the look of it. A french guy, quoted somewhere, summed it up best for me. " I want to be part of a beautiful story not a terrible drama"

#30 lucas

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 08:13 PM

Seastate was for most teams deciding not to start the main reason, not the wind. We have encountered heavy winds, but the combination with heavy seaway would have been new.

For us it was about a race, not a survival drill. We believed we would cope, survive and be able to pull it through. But we were there to race under reasonable circumstances, it still is a hobby. Sailing into missery is different from getting hit by it.

That said, I have the utmost(SP?) respect for everyone who decided to go and went out there (even when pulling into a safe harbour early on). Having been busy getting weather info, the UK met-office had some terrible forecasts out for the past week (with red alert zones everywhere) and we therefore choose the safe option.

#31 Asymptote

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Posted 17 August 2007 - 11:02 PM

Being a newbi this seams a bit feable but having been on a J105 for the fastnet (5 crew) all i can say is that vodore and janeau deserve all the praise I can offer. Having retired twelve miles east of Plymouth due to gear and crew failure. The thought of a beat out to the rock was not one we looked forward to with the forecast however the sleigh ride home would have been fun. Having just returned from Plymouth last night I can not do what I want which is to shake their hands and buy them all the beer in Devon.



So, your newbie qualifications include four misspellings and numerous lapses in punctuation, along with a reasonable comment. Not a bad start. Add a random flame and you could be OK.

#32 JuvenileD

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 12:02 AM

So, your newbie qualifications include four misspellings and numerous lapses in punctuation, along with a reasonable comment. Not a bad start. Add a random flame and you could be OK.


Keelbolt is a long time admirer of SA who despite surviving the horrendous backstabbing politics of being a successful club Commodore and being barred from our local pub is still scared of posting on SA. Trust me, he is OK.

Juvenile D

#33 LeftSA

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 10:38 AM

being barred from our local pub is still scared of posting on SA. Trust me, he is OK.


Errrrr... details? Pics?

#34 racing ron

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 02:23 PM

We didn't know about all the retirements until after lizard. We only monitor the radio for the three hours we had to.

Tough race, hats off to Voador we had several beers with them yesterday am.

A little disappointed we didn't give them a closer run but we had serious leakage issues which meant we were under canvassed the whole time. We were under main alone for 150 miles which isn't fast....our attitude was that second was enough for us to win the RORC double series for 2007 so not push too hard with a serious danger of going down. We were averaging around 10 full buckets an hour for most of the race to bail by hand.

Simon on voador has a second in the mini transat and Paul also a very good c v so we were in good company.

Boat being lifted and left in Plymouth until we can get a surveyor on her to understand the problem.

Voador were not without problems, they managed to spill diesel below which made being below awful.

Think the comments about people talking themselves out of it sound right. Sea sickness a major problem, the sea really was'nt very pleasant.

Strange atmosphere in plym when we got in. Ali who owns sailing logic brought us beer and cheered us in though she doesn't really know us - great lady. Normally there are loads of people on it but much quieter this year.

Apparently there was a good reception for us and voador at the prize giving. I didn't make it, slept 16 hours straight through 20 missed calls. I was pretty washed out.

#35 moody frog

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 02:28 PM

Welcome back Racing Ron, well done !

#36 Marine Blast

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 03:20 PM

Apparently there was a good reception for us and voador at the prize giving. I didn't make it, slept 16 hours straight through 20 missed calls. I was pretty washed out

HI There,

There was a really big cheer at the prizegiving for the double handers efforts, this from one of the reindeer crew who was there. Again amzing effort well done

marine blast

#37 racing ron

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 05:36 PM

HI There,

There was a really big cheer at the prizegiving for the double handers efforts, this from one of the reindeer crew who was there. Again amzing effort well done

marine blast

Thanks Dude, gutted I didn't make the prize giving, but was really, really shattered - at least Mike (Senior) my partner was there and said the reception he got was awesome.

#38 JuvenileD

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 06:14 PM

Errrrr... details? Pics?


I think if Keelbolt wants to explain he can do it himself...as for pics, there are plenty.

#39 LeftSA

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 06:22 PM

Fair 'nuff.

#40 KnightMare

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Posted 18 August 2007 - 06:36 PM

I do have to say congrats to the two 105's I have been tracking your progress on here (when the tracker wont let me do it myself) and via texts from simon round ing the rock etc. I do have to say that it is not the kinda weather or boat I would have liked to have been out there in.
I think i might owe you guys beers next time i see you...
KM

#41 Jambalaya

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 02:31 PM

Two very well sailed boats generally - Voador and Juneau - much respect for the performance, not just in finishing but placing well in highly unfavourable conditions.

A couple of final notes - at the rock the Class 40's were not too far ahead of the 105s, and outstanding sailing from Noel Racine and crew on JPK 960 Foggy Dew

#42 MonkeyNuts

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 04:19 PM

From this bollocks, you were quite clearly not out there.
The wind strength was not the problem - fairly regularly sail in that round the cans during winter, however the sea state was a different matter.
The media guys are not meant - or expected to be yachties. Our perception of bad is not automatically the same as theirs. Hopefully it will teach them some respect (fat chance).

Good on you, Racing Ron, etc. Beers flowing when you're home.



aw contraire ma petit chaufleur,


i think at the end of the day it came down to preparation, the winner of super zero, canting super zero and zero all had completed the hsh nordbank blue race from newport RI to germany.


As for the double handers, fair fucks lads !!

#43 LeftSA

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 07:42 PM

It sounds like it wasn't the wind that was the problem but the seastate. Having sailed off the coast between Cowes and Lands End for all my life, I know that even in a moderate 30kt breeze, any Southerly or Westerly can kick up a horrible short sea. Sailing into this sea is tiring both physically and mentally and, if I reached Falmouth after over a day of those conditions I can well imagine being tempted to make for a bolt hole.

Ironically (though I don't know for certain, I wouldn't be all that surprised), I would guess that conditions in the Celtic sea would be more acceptable than in the channel, as the sea is deeper and less shelving.

#44 LeoV

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Posted 19 August 2007 - 07:45 PM

Hi Jambalaya, what do you think of the JPK ? Looks not that fast or special but it performs great in different races.

#45 the cat

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 09:46 AM

Anybody do the first Cascais race in 2004 that started in Falmouth. With a cracking Force 10 Forecast in Biscay and the western approaches RORC stated at the briefing the night before that they would be "rigorous in their decision to start the race." Then they announced a change to the sailing instructions that closed the start line 2 hours after the gun.

3 days of constant force 7 to 10 on the fourth day it was a drifter. By god we where wet.

Edited by the cat, 20 August 2007 - 09:48 AM.


#46 Jambalaya

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 12:31 PM

Hi Jambalaya, what do you think of the JPK ? Looks not that fast or special but it performs great in different races.


It is a fast boat - the 960 performs very similarly to a 105 and rates 20 ticks lower under IRC - Christophe from Group Partouce told me the boat is good in all conditions except light air downwind.

On the Fastnet Foggy Dew was with Voador the whole way round

#47 duncan (the other one)

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 12:46 PM

Anybody do the first Cascais race in 2004 that started in Falmouth. With a cracking Force 10 Forecast in Biscay and the western approaches RORC stated at the briefing the night before that they would be "rigorous in their decision to start the race." Then they announced a change to the sailing instructions that closed the start line 2 hours after the gun.


don't want to hijack.. but there's no reason you can't start, then head back to shelter and drop the pick until it blows over.

#48 LeoV

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 03:40 PM

Thanks Jamba, interesting boat it is. Its around 100.000 bare. Can not find quickly the price of a j105...

#49 racing ron

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 04:37 PM

Thanks Jamba, interesting boat it is. Its around 100.000 bare. Can not find quickly the price of a j105...

100,000 euros? Look really interesting boats - do you know much about the class development? Who makes them and are many more on the way? I like the look of them.

#50 Jambalaya

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 05:33 PM

They are made by JPK in Lorient - first heard about them form Simon Curwen who got well beaten by one (Foggy ?) in the Quadra Solo a few years back. JM knows the builder and the guy who sails Group Partouche (from Figaro-1 days). They have made a 35 footer too now. You can buy a new one today. If you turned up in one and raced 2 handed IRC you'd be hard to beat.

On the long tack out West in the St Malo race we were even to slower than the 960 all the way to St Albans

Leo a new J105 is about Euro 160 on the water with good electronics and good sails (inc 17.5% Tax) - a good used 105 is about Euro 110-125

#51 LeoV

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 08:29 PM

I am following this JPK for a few yrs now, impressive factory. Very knowledgeable guys behind it.
THey do well in Irc races and in solo doublehanded shit like the quadra solo...
Awaiting their Class 40, expect something fast and well build.

The website, www.jpk.fr

As I was then a boatbuilder/salesman I thought they really hit a nice market very well.
They go for strength over looks, but without loosing speed.
HAts off for this small player.

#52 pep

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 09:31 PM

JPK is nice - but tiny. Hats off to these sailors.

Dropped out with the x482. Boat fine: too many sailors seasick. I escaped that luckily. Sailed the boat to Falmouth - fairly disappointed.
Max wind seen was 45knots just off the tip of Cornwall Tuesdaymorning. Wind was not the problem, sea state was.

Got drunk in London for a couple of days.
Ok - for the remainder of the week.
Will be back in 2 years.

Middle sea race next.
Anyone know of a smart way to get the racing gear to Malta?

#53 the cat

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Posted 20 August 2007 - 09:49 PM

Middle sea race next.
Anyone know of a smart way to get the racing gear to Malta?


Air Malta. Best from Gatwick less baggage trouble. Bitch coming back as it is half term week.

#54 the cat

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 07:59 AM

don't want to hijack.. but there's no reason you can't start, then head back to shelter and drop the pick until it blows over.



I cannot quite recall, probably as I was hammered most of the time, but I think they had worked something in to prevent that. It worked though. Boats not up to it did not start. That race was a bitch.

#55 Marine Blast

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Posted 21 August 2007 - 11:06 AM

Paul ‘Ron’ Worswick took the time to write a report of their race during the Fastnet double Handed race check it out at Marine Blast

Cheers Marine Blast




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